Trump Orders Crimes Against Humanity By USA

“President Donald Trump is expected to announce several executive orders Wednesday dealing with visas and refugees, a congressional source told CNN.
 
The orders, which make good on a series of immigration campaign promises Trump made, are expected to include restrictions on refugees, and people with some visas from countries including Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia and Libya.”
 
See Trump expected to announce executive orders on visa and refugee restrictions
Here it comes. The gloves are off. Trump is going to bully the most vulnerable people in the world, refugees: “owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”

USA is a signatory to the 1967 Protocol on the status of refugees. USA agreed not to discriminate against refugees, to assist them in many ways including providing travel-documents. There is an exception for “national security” but refugees generally are no threat whatsoever.

“provide administrative assistance for refugees (Article 25)
provide identity papers for refugees (Article 27)
provide travel documents for refugees (Article 28)”

So, once again, we see Trump has no respect for law and order nor even commitments his country has made to respect refugees.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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52 Responses to Trump Orders Crimes Against Humanity By USA

  1. ram says:

    Kurkosdr says:
    January 28, 2017 at 5:47 pm

    “Hmm… The USA didn’t bomb Somalia.”

    Eh, wrong:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/somalia-asks-explain-strike-killed-troops-160930035720405.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/world/africa/obama-somalia-secret-war.html?_r=0

    https://www.rt.com/news/361078-us-airstrike-somalia-soldiers/

    The USA has been deeply “involved” in Somalia since the early 1980’s at least when I was “working on assessments” in the region.

    With respect to:

    “So… Make sure life stays expensive in your country. Make sure the problem of overpopulation and cheap life remains a problem of Islamic countries, as it has been for decades, due to their attitude towards parenthood. Don’t let the Soros-funded NGOs convince you to import the overpopulation problem of the Middle East.”

    I’m inclined to agree on that point. Australia took in a big contingent of Middle Eastern immigrants and it is causing no end of problems. It is causing politics to become radicalized over all political parties and life is definitely becoming cheaper and cheaper.

  2. Kurkosdr says:

    ” Refugees move on. ”

    Nah, they don’t if you patrol the border like FYROM did and deport illegal immigrants liberally (she what I did there?). Or like Greece used to do before early 2015.

    ” They have to move on. You just can’t park a city in the hills without infrastructure. ”

    Nah they don’t. Greece parked then onto Turkey just fine before early 2015. That’s why you didn’t hear of the problem till early 2015 despite the fact the Syrian civil war had been raging on for years.

    ” The real solution is to mop up Assad and help the refugees go home. ”

    Nah, the military forces of Western countries are not the world’s policeman.

    ” What fool will help USA translate in a foreign war after they’ve seen Trump turn away people who were targeted by the murdering bastards for helping, eh? ”

    Legal immigrants who are more likely to know how to translate from English will. They are still filling paperwork to come to the US and EU, Trump or not. It’s in their best interest.

    ” If overpopulation is the problem why is Trump blocking assistance for abortion in external NGOs?”

    Because his voting base consists partly of rabid Bible thumpers and he had to pander to them. Still, some unwanted pregnancies will result in much less overpopulation than allowing an unlimited number of illegal immigrants from the Middle East or elsewhere to pour in which is the reason he got the vote of the alt-right too which are pro-choice.

    ” Look, that part of the world has been in flux forever. I can remember rebellion there in the 1950s. Saudi Arabia was a desert filled with nomadic tribes until the 1920s when they were forged together. Yemen was left out but there are still tribes in both countries fighting old wars. It has nothing to do with USA, democracy or right/wrong. It’s just a region living back in the Middle Ages when life was cheap and war was a means of population control. ”

    Not the Western world’s problem to care about. That was the message of recent elections in case you haven’t noticed.

    ” China wasn’t brought into the 21st century by isolation but by trade/travel/missionaries etc. Now, China is a world power instead of a backwater. ”

    When it comes to democracy and voting, they are just as bad as ever or almost as that. We just allowed them to grow more powerful and now they have better technology, a better economy and more military might but are practically the same dictators as they used to be. Nice policy that. Giving help and trade deals to un-democratic governments that will bite us back. But hey, Apple and Foxconn are going along just fine and that’s all that matters for the media that craft your worldview Pog.

    Get a clue.

  3. Kurkosdr oversimplifying wrote, “Somalis managed to somehow civil war each other. Something to do with lack of parenthood planning, overpopulation and groups of humans fighting over resources that aren’t enough for everyone because of aforementioned overpopulation problem. Same for Yemen.”

    If overpopulation is the problem why is Trump blocking assistance for abortion in external NGOs? That was one of the der Fuhrer’s orders…

    Look, that part of the world has been in flux forever. I can remember rebellion there in the 1950s. Saudi Arabia was a desert filled with nomadic tribes until the 1920s when they were forged together. Yemen was left out but there are still tribes in both countries fighting old wars. It has nothing to do with USA, democracy or right/wrong. It’s just a region living back in the Middle Ages when life was cheap and war was a means of population control. It will sort itself out but banning trade/travel won’t help at all. In fact, it will be counter-productive because the region will be isolated longer and remain fighting old battles longer. China wasn’t brought into the 21st century by isolation but by trade/travel/missionaries etc. Now, China is a world power instead of a backwater. Get rid of Trump and the world will fix itself sooner or later. Embrace Trumpism and you get a mess.

  4. Kurkosdr wrote, “Once they set foot on a country which is not in a state of war (like Turkey or Morocco), they become refugees in that country and illegal immigrants in every other country they do not have permission to enter.”

    That’s silly. Refugees move on. Everyone knows that. The neighbouring countries, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan don’t have the resources to keep them. They have to move on. You just can’t park a city in the hills without infrastructure. The refugees have to disperse or they’ll have problems indefinitely, like Gaza. The world should not repeat that mistake. The real solution is to mop up Assad and help the refugees go home. Whining about where they are is not helping anybody. e.g. What fool will help USA translate in a foreign war after they’ve seen Trump turn away people who were targeted by the murdering bastards for helping, eh? What emigre will go to USA having seen Google’s people broken from their families while out of the country on business? Trump is killing jobs and the economy,

  5. Kurkosdr says:

    ” It would help if the USA didn’t bomb all those countries generating the refugees in the first place. ”

    Hmm… The USA didn’t bomb Somalia. In fact, the USA have no interest in Somalia. Yet Somalis managed to somehow civil war each other. Something to do with lack of parenthood planning, overpopulation and groups of humans fighting over resources that aren’t enough for everyone because of aforementioned overpopulation problem. Same for Yemen.

    ” With 7 billion people in the world, human life is cheap — very cheap. ”

    So… Make sure life stays expensive in your country. Make sure the problem of overpopulation and cheap life remains a problem of Islamic countries, as it has been for decades, due to their attitude towards parenthood. Don’t let the Soros-funded NGOs convince you to import the overpopulation problem of the Middle East.

  6. ram wrote, “Wait till the sea levels rise, then it is really really going to get ugly.”

    Yes, the NewYawkers will all move to the hills and Trump couldn’t get elected.

  7. dougman says:

    “Wait till the sea levels rise”

    Sea level rise? Are you expecting 3-5′ rise per year? Perhaps a tsunami or two??

  8. ram says:

    It would help if the USA didn’t bomb all those countries generating the refugees in the first place. Wait till the sea levels rise, then it is really really going to get ugly. With 7 billion people in the world, human life is cheap — very cheap.

  9. Kurkosdr says:

    ” They are not illegal immigrants. They are refugees. ”

    No they are not. Once they set foot on a country which is not in a state of war (like Turkey or Morocco), they become refugees in that country and illegal immigrants in every other country they do not have permission to enter. Also, why bear the cost of a problem that is not yours to solve. It’s a problem of the Islamist world, let the Islamic world solve it by putting all those petrodollars into good use. This should also reduce the number of illegal immigrants getting drawn in the Aegean Sea and the Mediterranean when the unseaworthy boats the traffickers provide capsize or sink.

    Quit it Pog. Your ideology has been defeated in every recent democratic election and even traditionally guilt-ridden countries like Germany don’t believe they are responsible for solving the Middle-East’s problems anymore and even Merkel had to adjust rhetoric and had to promise she will eventually start deporting.

  10. Kurkosdr wrote, “I just don’t think the Western taxpayer should bear the huge cost of providing food and housing to every illegal immigrant that comes from the Middle East.”

    They are not illegal immigrants. They are refugees. Obviously the neighbouring countries get way more refugees than they can absorb. It’s up to the rest of us to help them out by taking our fair share.

  11. Kurkosdr says:

    Your point about illegal immigrants bring refugees is moot = Your point about illegal immigrants being refugees is moot.

  12. Kurkosdr says:

    ” Refugees are not illegal immigrants. Our laws allow for refugees. The people want refugees to be welcome. What’s your beef? Why do you hate people fleeing war? ”

    I don’t hate them, you poisoning-the-well twat. I just don’t think the Western taxpayer should bear the huge cost of providing food and housing to every illegal immigrant that comes from the Middle East. It is too much to ask for and is not the Western country’s obligation. There are 4 separate countries in the Middle East experiencing a civil war right now right now, so it’s a huge wave of immigration that it would be painful to bear and don’t have any obligation to. Why not stick to your 1%/360K limit? (not per year obviously but a total) And enforce immigration laws for the rest of illegal immigrants (with border patrol and deportation)

    BTW, Western countries don’t have to give refugee status to every illegal immigrant. It’s in their discretion. Many of those illegal immigrants come from Turkey (which in case you haven’t noticed stands between the Middle East and the EU (and the Western world in general) which means the illegal immigrants have to go through Turkey), which means they can as well stay in Turkey instead, because there is no war going in Turkey whatsoever. See? By deporting them to Turkey, they are not refugees anymore. Your point about illegal immigrants bring refugees is moot. Same for people coming illegally from Morocco, which also isn’t in a state of war.

    BTW, this is what used to happen before Greece got a leftard government that opened both Greece’s East border (to allow them in) and Northern border (to allow them to move to FYROM and from there further Northwest). The illegal immigration problem was much less pronounced before early 2015. When did Greece got a leftard government? Early 2015! Glad FYROM started patrolling the Greek-FYROM border and didn’t allow this schtick to continue with the same intensity, although it is still much worse than it was in 2014. Before early 2015, Greece was simply refusing the majority of refugee requests and sent them back to Turkey, aka the first country mot in a state of war they met after leaving their country, as things should happen. The whole illegal immigration problem was a trick by the European left to bring their proletarian brothers (or so they think are) over to the EU, in order to have an always available protest army and future voter base. Leftard NGOs caught assisting the illegal trafficking of immigrants only add to this explanation. You don’t have to pay for this based on some false sense of humanity. Those people can stay in Turkey, which is also a Muslim country so they ‘ll fit in. Or Iran. Or Saudi Arabia.

  13. Kurkosdr wrote, “illegal immigrants”.

    Refugees are not illegal immigrants. Our laws allow for refugees. The people want refugees to be welcome. What’s your beef? Why do you hate people fleeing war?

  14. Kurkosdr says:

    ” It seems USA/Canada both import Mexicans to work in the fields in summer. ”

    Good. Then you should “import” aka give a stay permit to the Mexicans you need. No reason to allow illiterate-in-their-own-languages illegal immigrants who will have to be fed and housed by the taxpayer till they learn English orally and learn how to write to stay. Your country is not obligated to compensate for Syria’s inability to make those people literate, and your country is not responsible for solving Middle East’s problems.

    Which means that immigration laws must be enforced (with deportations of illegal immigrants, strong border protection and all).

  15. Kurkosdr wrote, “Western countries do NOT have a problem finding people to do manual labour, quite the contrary”.

    It seems USA/Canada both import Mexicans to work in the fields in summer. Many of our young people prefer to run up a student load rather than take that kind of work. I don’t blame them. They’re better off volunteering at something relevant to their planned career than sweating under a hot sun. Most of our really poor folk who could use the work live in cities and don’t have a ride to the fields. It’s just the way things are.

  16. Kurkosdr says:

    That’s why I recommended construction or agricultural labour which seasonally offer many openings that go unfilled.

    For the billionth time, Western countries do NOT have a problem finding people to do manual labour, quite the contrary. And with automation reducing the number ultra-menial jobs like fast-food worker and grocery store cashier and soon menial jobs like uber driver and delivery person, the situation won’t change.

    The important thing is that they find work as soon as possible

    Considering 1/3rd of them can’t even read and/or write in their own language, this is more wishful thinking than planning. If someone can’t read signs and text messages even in their own language and can’t understand instructions in English, they are hopeless in the job market. They will need a translator next to them all the time just to function. Cost-effective, that. Having a translator for your minimum-age manual worker. Expect to pay taxes to house and feed them for as long as they take to learn your language orally and then pay some more taxes for as long as they take to learn how to write. A teeny-tiny percentage of them will get shoved into some kind of ultra-menial job (of the few ones still getting created) so that the media can congratulate the government for finding those people jobs and boast about the supposed success stories, but expect to pay a lot for the rest of them. Don’t expect the mainstream media to tell you the ratio…

    As I said, immigrants who are assets (aka have university degrees) arrive legally, it’s the ones are risky investments that arrive illegally.

    Paying taxes to compensate for some other country’s inability to raise functional people (while feeding them and housing them with your taxes) without having solved all of your country’s problems is a major wtf. This is why Western Civilisation is doomed: Guilt and the belief Western countries are responsible for fixing other country’s problems.

    Having a bunch of folks familiar with the language/culture may provide opportunities for business. I expect if Syria settled down, in a few years a good fraction of refugees would seek to return to Syria.
    More wishful thinking (to the point of mistaken as carefully crafted sarcasm to be honest).

    Look buddy, just because I am a millennial it doesn’t give you the right to think I am dumb. Old age does not wisdom make (not necessarily). Don’t try to convince me that illiterate people (arriving illegally) who will have to be fed, housed and pampered by the taxpayer for a substantial time period are an opportunity instead of a liability for the taxpayer. Especially when there is already enough supply of the manual labour they will supposedly do. Or that there is a manual job for every illegal immigrant coming from the Middle East. Stop being absurd. If you have some proposal, spill it, otherwise admit the solution of enforcing immigration laws (with deportations of illegal immigrants, strong border protection and all) is the only viable solution (unless you have another *viable* one, I am waiting).

  17. Kurkosdr wrote, “Immigrants who are assets, for example those with university degrees, arrive through legal means, the ones who are risky “investments” arrive illegally.”

    Trump’s ancestors arrived legally but worked at menial labour. No degrees there. The grandfather was a draft-dodger, really dodgy.

  18. Kurkosdr says:

    vast last = vast lands

  19. Kurkosdr wrote, “how many of those illegal immigrants that arrived on Germany were illiterate in their own languages and hence suitable only for ultra-menial jobs”.

    “The educational attainment of Syrian refugees is generally low with one out of three either illiterate
    or can read and write. Three quarters have primary education or below and only three per cent have
    obtained university education. Males and females seem to have similar educational levels, although
    slightly less females than males completed secondary or university education.”

    See https://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/download.php?id=8920

    On one hand that means they may largely need employement with hands-on work. That’s why I recommended construction or agricultural labour which seasonally offer many openings that go unfilled. On the other, that means they have less to “unlearn” and may respond well to educational opportunities that they were denied by the Assad regime. Canada has a lot of teachers and classrooms. Refugees can work by day and study in the evenings to gain secondary education and prepare for college/trade schools.

    The important thing is that they find work as soon as possible. They pay taxes. They pay for their own education. Problem solved. Kurkosdr sees only problems, not opportunities. Refugees provide an abundance of opportunity. Further, eventually the Middle East will settle down. Having a bunch of folks familiar with the language/culture may provide opportunities for business. I expect if Syria settled down, in a few years a good fraction of refugees would seek to return to Syria. They would also open doors for Canadians. It’s all good.

  20. Kurkosdr says:

    ” I don’t understand why folks consider refugees liabilities instead of assets. Canada can afford to invest support for a few months of adjustment and get a lifetime of return on investment. ”

    OK, so you want to go down that way: Aka, provide illegal immigrants above your 1%/360K threshold with help, training and handouts for a few months (paid by the taxpayer) ’till they hopefully find a job and start paying taxes to repay that. Germany went down the same route and it worked for them (not). I just wanted to know where you stand.

    However, you may want to do your homework and find out how many of those illegal immigrants that arrived on Germany were illiterate in their own languages and hence suitable only for ultra-menial jobs.

    You may also want to do your research and find out how many of Canada’s vast last are arable and available (aka not someone’s property or government nature conservation parks).

    Then, do your research what the supply of jobs which don’t require a university degree is and what is the demand is (hint: the Western world has no problem finding people to do jobs that don’t require a university degree, quite the contrary)

    PS: This is what you people don’t understand. Immigrants who are assets, for example those with university degrees, arrive through legal means, the ones who are risky “investments” arrive illegally.

  21. Kurkosdr wrote, “have Canadians pay increased taxes to feed and house them inside Canada for as long it takes them to find a job”.

    I don’t understand why folks consider refugees liabilities instead of assets. Canada can afford to invest support for a few months of adjustment and get a lifetime of return on investment. It’s a simple calculation. If I were in charge, I’d give the working-aged folks some on the job training and get them to build their own communities. By the time they are finished building their own homes, they’d have marketable skills. Many refugees already have marketable skills which they could contribute to such new communities. Canada has a lot of land and some agricultural skills are transferable. Many educated Arabs already speak some French or English and can fit right in. We also have seasonal work which runs short of labour in summertime where they could work during the day and study/learn in evenings during our long daylight periods. USA lacks imagination totally when it comes to refugees.

  22. Kurkosdr says:

    Dougie says:
    “Annual immigration to Canada is about 250K (link to source”

    Pog says:
    ” Canada could accept ~1% of the population per annum as immigrants, 360K people. ”

    So… You ‘ve got a 100K headroom. Easily overshoot…

    So Pog… if the people who want to immigrate to Canada is 4% or 8% or 10% of the population, which considering that 4 separate Middle Eastern countries countries are experiencing a civil war right now (Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Somalia), is not an unlikely scenario, what do you propose?

    -Allow all of them in and have Canadians pay increased taxes to feed and house them inside Canada for as long it takes them to find a job?

    -Allow all of them in and tell them to find a job by next month or else they will starve and become homeless?

    – Don’t allow all of them in, codify this into law (let’s call it “immigration law” for the purposes of this post) but at the same time reward people who break that law with help and stay permits, hence rewarding illegal behavior? (aka what most “liberal” countries are doing)

    – Don’t allow all of them in, codify this into law (let’s call it “immigration law”) and don’t reward illegal behavior with help and stay permits? (aka what Austria, Hungary, Norway and recently Trump are doing)

    What do you propose Pog?

  23. dougman wrote, “Unless radical measures are taken, Canada will be a Muslim country in 20-30 years.”

    I doubt that and even if it were true, who cares?

  24. dougman says:

    Annual immigration to Canada is about 250K

    http://immigrationwatchcanada.org/

    Unless radical measures are taken, Canada will be a Muslim country in 20-30 years.

  25. Kurkosdr wrote, “If the number of people from the Middle East who want to move to your country is times higher than that number, what do you propose?”

    Canada is a country of ~36million people. According to demographics, the population will soon begin to decline as we baby-boomers quit and women keep having very few children. If we want to maintain the population, we need an influx of immigrants or bribe women to have more children. We could do both but clearly, Canada could accept ~1% of the population per annum as immigrants, 360K people.

    We could easily bring in 100K refugees in that and create a lot of jobs teaching English/French, general education, skilled trades/higher education, and building homes. We have some regions of the country already heavily populated and others very sparsely populated. Just as with previous generations we could offer immigrants cheap land, assistance to housing or putting them to work building new communities. It’s all good.

    Presently we are looking at ~25K refugees per annum (or is that just Middle East?). We could do much more. I’d be glad to help if there was a project nearby. We have two or three building lots nearby but this is a very expensive neighbourhood so it might not be suitable. Places I lived as a boy though would be excellent with lots of cheap land and natural resources. We also have the North which is quite a contrast but very sparsely populated. The North needs miners, tradesmen, healthcare workers, teachers, technicians etc.

  26. Kurkosdr says:

    Canada deliberately welcomes many thousands of immigrants annually, not enough in my estimation.

    So… What kind of number is enough by your estimation?

    If the number of people from the Middle East who want to move to your country is times higher than that number, what do you propose? Multiply the number as needed and accept all of them in? Choose to accept some people and refuse entrance to others? If you pick the second option, how do you choose who to accept inside and who to not accept?

  27. dougman says:

    “Being a refugee is not illegal behaviour.”

    It is, if you trespass illegally into another country.

  28. kurkosdr wrote, “Why not enforce immigration law and refuse to reward illegal behaviour with help and stay permits?”

    Being a refugee is not illegal behaviour.

  29. kurkosdr wrote, “Being human beings means being obligated to fix all the problems of the world, including Islam’s endless problems and endless civil wars?”

    There is an interesting current case in USA. The wife of a terrorist is being charged because the state claims she knew of the attack and did nothing. What’s good for the gander should be good for the goose. Kurkosdr’s thesis would exempt her from prosecution.

  30. kurkosdr wrote, “The only way refugee numbers are kept at an acceptable level is because your country enforces immigration laws, against which you advocate.”

    There are three oceans and USA also interfering. Canada deliberately welcomes many thousands of immigrants annually, not enough in my estimation.

  31. dougman wrote, “The fourth mode, of which you did not ponder, is that of a pay service.”

    This blog was started to help preserve sanity in the north where one remains engaged or goes crazy. I continue it as a retirement project like growing fruit-trees. It’s never been approached as a business. I would not have claimed the .com domain, for instance. That was done by others.

  32. dougman says:

    “I’ve thought about this issue for years. There are three modes I’ve considered:”

    The fourth mode, of which you did not ponder, is that of a pay service.

    This keeps the crazies away. But, since your “advice” isn’t valuable enough and not worth paying for to begin with, I doubt this mode would be a profitable venture for you.

  33. kurkosdr says:

    That’s false. Being human brings a responsibility to all of humanity. M/em>
    Being human beings means being obligated to fix all the problems of the world, including Islam’s endless problems and endless civil wars? (Somalia has been in a civil war for decades, maybe your country should send some troops and/or planes there too, first-come first-serve right?)

    The Middle East is a special case where a European war twice engulfed the region because of oil and navigation and Europeans drew lines on maps and left afterwards.
    Translation: “Allow me to scold you with western guilt to squelch any rational arguments you provided.”

    Look buddy, even if the Europeans did some things you consider bad in the Middle East in the 19th century or so, they don’t have to suffer by participating in endless Islamic civil wars forever. And I guess I am not supposed to mention that Ottoman imperialism once resulted in the annexation of most of the Balkans (which used to be inhabited by Europeans) and the annexation of part of Austria (they reached just outside Vienna). Noo… that was good imperialism because it was done by non-Europeans. No tit-for-tat here. Also, countries that the Europeans had no interest in like Yemen and Somalia are faring worse than your average Middle-Eastern country. Go figure.

    Anyway, your country doesn’t have to fix the Islam’s endless problems. The only reason the US and Russia have airplanes above Syria dropping bombs is because they want their Islamic factions to win so their pipelines are built instead of the opposing side’s pipelines. What interest does your country have Pog, to participate in a Middle Eastern civil war? Why does your country have to deal with the fallout of this? Why not enforce immigration law and refuse to reward illegal behaviour with help and stay permits?

    I mean don’t get me wrong, if you were an illegal migrant you ‘d probably be advocating for the things you advocate right now, but you are not so you shouldn’t. If you allow people to come to your country, they will keep on coming. Half of the Middle-East wants to move to the EU and North America. Now, I know I am asking a lot from you, but can you imagine any ways this can negatively impact the life you have now? Like, I dunno, being forced to fork over increased taxes to provide food and housing for those people? Doesn’t this mean you will be forced to share what you have (either directly or indirectly via taxes) with people that are just too many?

    The only way refugee numbers are kept at an acceptable level is because your country enforces immigration laws, against which you advocate.

  34. The Wiz wrote, ” I would do so. And, yes, Dougie, I do know that there exist ways that trolls like you can “get around” banning. It would not change the outcome one bit. The minute you would open your mouth you would be banned and your off topic posts would be deleted. End of Story.”

    I’ve thought about this issue for years. There are three modes I’ve considered:

    1. No comments. That’s like pissing into the wind, an old man on the mountain giving long lectures to the wilderness. I suppose some personalities would like that. I prefer two-way communication.
    2. Comments moderated/authenticated. That’s better but it makes useless work for me. I spent years managing accounts for students and dealing with people who lost passwords or accused one another and whatever… It’s just not my idea of fun.
    3. Comments allowed after the first one was accepted. This is the mode I use. It has a minimal threshold of effort for everyone and mostly works. I’m not entirely happy with the usual crowd but as long as things don’t get too far out of hand, I will continue with this mode.

    There are fine-grained structures. I could probably make some posts free of comments. I haven’t done that. I could make the blog into several sections but that’s just more work. I’m retired from work. This should be play… I could gather bits and make a book or two out of it but that’s a lot of work and mostly out of date stuff. I’m kind of locked in to WordPress but at least I can manage at the moment. There are a few alternatives which would give me more control but as long as WP stays somewhat out of my way, I’m OK with it. At some point it will end, likely on or before my death unless someone takes over but I don’t see that as likely. I guess at some point it will be entombed as some kind of legacy for a few to read.

    There are over 5K posts and 55K comments. Not all of it is junk. Not all of it is valuable. It’s there.

  35. Kurkosdr wrote, “the US and Canadian defense forces are not the world’s Justice League and are not obligated to step in and provide justice everytime some Middle Eastern country is in a state of civil war.”

    That’s false. Being human brings a responsibility to all of humanity. The Middle East is a special case where a European war twice engulfed the region because of oil and navigation and Europeans drew lines on maps and left afterwards. That was done improperly and much of the present day problems resulted from trouble we caused. UK, in particular, promised zionists a state in Palestine and ignored Arabs in the process. After WWII the UK washed its hands of Palestine and USA backed Israel and we’ve had 70 years of war resulting. This is not solely Arabs or muslims’ problem. It’s our problem.

  36. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “So you were never for one to enjoin a empathetic lively discussion, eh? How mighty tyrannical of you.”

    And that is a problem because?

  37. Kurkosdr says:

    Hungary Austria = Hungary, Austria

  38. dougman says:

    “The minute you would open your mouth you would be banned and your off topic posts would be deleted.”

    So you were never for one to enjoin a empathetic lively discussion, eh? How mighty tyrannical of you.

  39. Kurkosdr says:

    here’s a plan that would work in short order:

    Translation: Allow me to repeat the fallacy that the militaries of North American and EU countries have an obligation to be the world’s policeman.

    Hint: Contrary to what movies tell you, the US and Canadian defense forces are not the world’s Justice League and are not obligated to step in and provide justice everytime some Middle Eastern country is in a state of civil war. Otherwise why not give Somalia a hand too? Or Yemen? Or Afghanistan who have problems with extremists too? Oh boy, lots of work for those defense-forces-turned-Justice-League.

    Of course this plan will be expensive but a lot less expensive than an indefinite uncivil war, floods of refugees, wider disruption.
    Nah… Hungary Austria, and Norway haven’t sent any of their military personnel to die in some civil war in the Middle East which they have nothing to do with and don’t fund expensive air raid operations above the Middle East either. Yet, they don’t have any increased costs compared to those countries that have sent military forces in the Middle East. In fact, they have reduced costs because they protect their borders with patrols and fences and generally enforce immigration law. You see, they refuse to become a giant refugee camp and war hospital for the Middle East. I know… Using tax funds paid by the citizens to provide services to those citizens instead of illegal immigrants and using their defense forces to actually provide defense to their country instead of forcing them to be the world’s policeman… Shocking! Let’s call them fascists. Let’s call Trump a fascist for promising to do the same for the US.

  40. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “So you concur, …”

    Nice try Dougie, But I was referring to those posts where you would respond with some continuation of whatever load of non IT crap you were posting.

    When Robert Pogson posts on politics or world events, he is a fair target.

    “Banned? LOL…. how in the hell would you do that? Cookies? IP? Cease & Desist? Lawsuit?”

    Robert Pogson chooses not to require accounts and passwords for the privilege of posting responses. I would do so. And, yes, Dougie, I do know that there exist ways that trolls like you can “get around” banning. It would not change the outcome one bit. The minute you would open your mouth you would be banned and your off topic posts would be deleted. End of Story.

  41. dougman wrote, “Why do you always fall back on WW2, to explain away you fallacies?”

    He also wrote, “Trump understands that the treaty you mention is a product of a different time when refugees were very small in numbers and could be accommodated.”

    Question answered. WWII was a much bigger affair than what is going on today. There were way more refugees. There were murdering bastards involved. My father witnessed captured SS set off a grenade to take more with them, just like the suicide bombers. My father witnessed aerial bombing that was indiscriminate. My father witnessed prisoners killed for convenience/revenge. My father fired truckloads of ammunition in the direction of a city on the other side of the river Rhine because those were his orders. All the worst in humanity comes out in war and Trump is a featherweight when it comes to dealing with the world’s problems. He has no magic solutions, no quick fixes, and he’s not going to bring prosperity to the masses, just his rich friends.

  42. dougman says:

    “Where it my blog Dougie would have long since been banned for all his off topic trolling during Robert Pogsons IT themed Posts.”

    So you concur, that the notion of a Cello/Armada/Odroid weenie board is a suitable replacement for a business. That thin-clients are the bees-knees for all IT and that ARM is superior and every way imaginable to Intel. Wow..who knew. So when was it that you saw the light of Pogson and came out the closet??

    Banned? LOL…. how in the hell would you do that? Cookies? IP? Cease & Desist? Lawsuit?

  43. dougman says:

    “TLW and I have several times taken in new immigrants for months to help them get started in Canada.”

    What country where they from Pogsey?

    Also, we are talking about the 21st century, not a period of European turmoil in the 20th. Why do you always fall back on WW2, to explain away you fallacies?

  44. Kurkosdr wrote, “Trump understands that the treaty you mention is a product of a different time when refugees were very small in numbers and could be accommodated.”

    Whole cities were devastated in WWII. My father was there and did some of the devastating with artillery. There were whole towns with scarcely a building standing. The Canadians and British were set to take Caen in Normandy but could not until they bombed the Hell out of it. It was levelled. “About 35,000 residents were made homeless after the Allied bombing and the destruction of the city caused much resentment.” War manufactures refugees. Don’t blame the refugees for that.

    Only recently did numbers of refugees exceed those from WWII. There were millions rendered homeless during WWII and more afterward. When I was a boy living in Winnipeg in the 1950s, there were half a dozen refugee families living on my block. They were far better off starting over in a functioning country than on the lunar landscape that was Europe. We were far better off with them adding to the “baby boom”. Growth in the economy was amazing. The creation of Israel and the Korean war and the Indo-China war, continuations of WWII, all added to the total. So, quit pulling alternative facts out of your ass just like Trump.

  45. dougman wrote, “Until Pogsey accepts a refugee family from either Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Then he has no right to demand anyone else do so.”

    I’ve never demanded anyone take in a family. That’s entirely voluntary. TLW and I have several times taken in new immigrants for months to help them get started in Canada. It’s the right thing to do but not compulsory. Every family has to weigh their situation against the needs. TLW and I started out with rather small housing but for 25 years have had housing large enough to do that and we have. We have not taken in any refugees from the Middle East, however. Canada is doing a good job without our help but if the need grew we would consider that. We had many friends from the Middle East when I lived in Saudi Arabia. The doctor who helped TLW deliver our first born child was from Jordan, ISTR. Our closes friends were from Bangladesh and India but we had friends from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia too. There’s no reason at all to ban immigration/refugees from the Middle East in a blanketing fashion. They are human, good ones.

  46. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Its ok, Canada will accept them all. Except at Pogsey’s, he won’t take any refugees in but demands that America does. ”

    And so Dougie the troll attempts to shut up Robert Pogson in his own blog. Frankly Dougie is lucky – Where it my blog Dougie would have long since been banned for all his off topic trolling during Robert Pogsons IT themed Posts.

  47. dougman says:

    Its ok, Canada will accept them all. Except at Pogsey’s, he won’t take any refugees in but demands that America does.

    Hypocrite. I think we are starting to see a pattern develop here. Do as I say, not as I do, eh?

    Until Pogsey accepts a refugee family from either Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Then he has no right to demand anyone else do so.

  48. Kurkosdr wrote, “What is your plan Pog? Accept all of them?”

    Well, it would have been much simpler to have focused on Syria and Iraq a few years ago. Everything would have been easier to deal with, like refugees, but given that that did not happen, here’s a plan that would work in short order:

    • Close down Syrian airspace to Russian and Syrian planes both of which have killed civilians deliberately en masse. One could phase it in ordering Russians to leave or be grounded but shoot them down if they attack targets on the ground. USA, Canada, NATO, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia etc. should/could contribute to such an effort.
    • Search and destroy missions should escalate against Daesh, the murdering bastards, whereever they may be found, by air and land.
    • Deliberate assaults should be organized against the murdering bastards at Raqqa and Mosul. Leave them no HQ. Leave them no communications centres. Leave them no propaganda centres.
    • Offer Assad and his family asylum somewhere far away with an ultimatum to focus resources on Assad if he refuses to leave.
    • Press “Reset” on Syria as a failed state with a constitutional convention of a few good citizens from each region of the country including refugees, fighters and some from Assad’s regime. Respect both representation by population and region.
    • Implement the new constitution but don’t set Syria free until they’ve had at least one free and fair election of a representative government. For the short term, civilians should be disarmed but new police/military be established gradually.
    • Invest in rebuilding the country: new housing, government buildings, roads, returning refugees, other infrastructure. People at work are less likely to be fighting.

    Of course this plan will be expensive but a lot less expensive than an indefinite uncivil war, floods of refugees, wider disruption. It should be followed up with a proper recipe at the UN on how to deal with future situations instead of allowing vast crimes against humanity repeatedly. Clearly, the veto in Security Council, should be denied perpetrators of crimes against humanity.

  49. Kurkosdr says:

    those illegally = those people illegally

  50. Kurkosdr says:

    So… If half of the Syrian population, half of the Somalian population and half of the Iraqi population ask for “refugee” status, does the EU and North America have to accept them all and allow them to cross the border checkpoints?

    Then what? Provide handouts to the… bunch of them? Tell them to find a job by the next month or they starve? What is your proposal Pog?

    Or you are proposing the perpetuation of the current schizophrenic situation where the US and the EU try to prevent people from illegally crossing their borders, but if those illegally cross the border successfully and say the word “refugee”, the US and EU provide them with help and grant them a stay permit, rewarding illegal behavior?

    What is your plan Pog? Accept all of them? Reward the illegal behavior of the few that managed to dodge law enforcement?

    Trump understands that the treaty you mention is a product of a different time when refugees were very small in numbers and could be accommodated. Sorry Pog, neither the US nor the EU have any obligation to be the Middle-East’s giant refugee camp and war hospital. They have to put their citizen’s first just like their constitutions say, which btw are above any kind of treaty. Of course, if you have a viable proposal, speak up. Will you?

  51. dougman wrote, “America does not owe anyone else in the world a living. Even when admitted entry, they do not respect our culture, our language, our laws and most importantly our freedoms.”

    “They”, eh? So USAians are good and everyone else is bad, eh? That’s a gross over-generalization. Even Trump doesn’t claim everyone is bad out there, just too many to risk. That’s a gross exaggeration. There are millions of refugees in the world and only a few thousand terrorists. What are the odds a widow with three young kids is a terrorist? Just about nil, yet you fear/hate/loathe her. That’s wrong. That’s sick.

    Trump’s USA claims to be a “Christian” country. That’s why Muslims are to be feared, right? What did Christ say about such things? He told the story of the Good Samaritan, the harlot and the adulteress. He never said to fear/loathe/flee the stranger. It’s morally wrong to treat refugees so. That’s why there is the Protocol. That’s why USA, Canada, etc. take in refugees. It’s the right thing to do. Trump is wrong. Trump’s sycophants are wrong.

    Matthew – chapter:verse
    “008:002 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
     
    008:003 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”

    That’s the Christian thing to do, not what Trump is doing. Trump’s grandfather was essentially a refugee fleeing to USA to avoid German military service ~1885. Trump’s mother may have been a refugee too. She came to USA from Scotland with $50 when she was 18 years old. See also A brief history of emigration & immigration in Scotland: research guide 2: “Poverty has always been noted as the main reason for Scottish emigration”

    So, perhaps Trump is forgetting his own history when he bans huge classes of refugees on flimsy grounds.

    My own ancestors fled England ~1860. They had a choice of starving or going abroad. Some chose Canada, some USA and some Australia. They made the right choice and were successful and contributed to society.

  52. dougman says:

    America does not owe anyone else in the world a living. Even when admitted entry, they do not respect our culture, our language, our laws and most importantly our freedoms.

    Go pound sand.

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