Sewage Becomes Oil, Nature’s Way

“the raw sewage is placed in a reactor that’s basically a tube pressurized to 3,000 lb/in2 (204 atm) and heated to 660° F (349° C), which mimics the same geological process that turned prehistoric organic matter into crude oil by breaking it down into simple compounds, only with HTL it takes minutes instead of epochs.”
 
See Mimicking nature turns sewage into biocrude oil in minutes
See, we don’t need to rely on petroleum as much if we recycle the biomass running through our guts. If we stuck to using oil for lubrication and plastics, we would easily have enough just by recycling. My idea to have an electric vehicle for personal transportation is looking better all the time. It won’t burn any petroleum and will use just a little to lubricate bearings on the motor and wheels.

While the imminent USA election paints a very gloomy outlook for humanity, this news offers hope that we might not destroy the planet for momentary creature comforts.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

19 Responses to Sewage Becomes Oil, Nature’s Way

  1. oiaohm says:

    dougman by the way one of the oil fields that has been pumped dry and magically refilled 4 times in the past 200 years has a disappearing green coal field near it. So the bacteria are eating the green coal field and turning it into oil. So yes a forest with a oil field near it and there is no green coal field forming under the forest as you would expect.

    Crude oil is for a creature we know. Is that particularly bacteria types are basically like bees and Crude oil is their honey where they store reserves for a rainy day.

    http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/microorganisms-team-recycle-carbon-dioxide-biofuel/

    So until recently we did not know these bacteria did what they did. Yes the contamination in the oil of them was known but what they did was not. Once this was understood all the strange behaviours different oil fields have done like magically refilling and magically ceasing to be a oil field started making logical reason.

    abiotic oil cannot start from pure CO2 in Sea water + some heat + area to trap oil. Biotic oil can in fact start from CO2 in Sea water + some heat + area to trap oil.

    When people say that oil is from long dead organisms this is true but its not always that long and the dead organisms might only be a mixed of variates of bacteria so oil does not have to contain dinosaurs.

    This opens up a complete different way for oil to form. It could be possible that the final earth defence against global warming is the surface of the seas becomes covered in oil as the oil producing bacteria go to town consuming CO2 and methane. The bacteria in oil fields is found around vents in the sea floor.

    Biotic oil adds a completely different demission to the global warming problem. Remember Biotic oil does not require sunlight for it to form just enough temperature and maybe with some of the different modifications dna modifications that have been done to take traits from one bacteria to another we can force it to happen at temperatures we like not temperatures were we are already dead.

    Really Biotic oil fairly much killing all life in the seas does not sound particularly good place to end up either. Biotic oil is temperature dependant in production because the bacteria that produces like particular temperatures. But Biotic oil does no have a pressure requirement like Abiotic oil does so meaning every sections the earth crust can in fact product biotic oil if the temperature and materials are is right. This is also why Biotic oil is way more common.

  2. oiaohm says:

    dougman I have provided all the covering cites on how oil on earth is really made. Just you are being to big of a moron to update your education.

  3. dougman says:

    “dougman so I will take that statement that my last post was absolutely correct”

    No moron, it was comical to argue with you in the beginning as you’re an idiot, and you aren’t even aware of that fact. So now, everything you say is boring and just stupid. Why bother, you know?

  4. oiaohm says:

    dougman so I will take that statement that my last post was absolutely correct so now you have to use personal insults.

  5. dougman says:

    Ham-turd, you are nothing but a Australian peon. Your writings are about as valuable as bathroom stall scrawl. Do the world a favor, and please DO NOT procreate.

  6. oiaohm says:

    Carbon in a vacuum or low gravity is very different to on earth.

    See, we are making progress! Heat/pressure, carbon/oxygen – hydrogen/helium, hmm a cocktail of elements, that chain together to form methane/ethane, which go one further to form other complex molecules. See where this is heading?
    But there is a problem. Just as hydrocarbons form up they also break down that you are overlooking.

    To have the process go in a particular direction dominantly you need exactly the right conditions or something organic forcing it in that direction. The oil fields we are using have been organically forced so allowing them to be formed at levels where they are not deep enough into the earth crust.

    carbon itself is immune to UV degradation.
    This is another false statement.
    https://www.nist.gov/programs-projects/degradation-extreme-ultraviolet-optics

    UV on earth does not degrade carbon. UV in space without the filtering of the earth atmosphere in fact breaks carbon down.

    Yes you can make hydrocarbons using a very strong UV light with hydrogen, carbon, a vacuum and right temperature not a power effective or fast way to-do it. So no you don’t need Heat/pressure to make hydrocarbons. Earth and moon is too warm to use UV hydrocarbon production even in the coldest natural spot yet Titian is in the right temperature range for UV hydrocarbon production.

    Thank you proving the fact that oil is derived from abiotic sources, and not from dead dinosaurs.

    Höök, M., Bardi, U., Feng, L., Pang, X., 2010. Development of oil formation theories and their importance for peak oil. Marine and Petroleum Geology, Volume 27, Issue 9, October 2010, Pages 1995–2004.

    dougman go to library take on this book. Reason why I pointed to the wikipedia page. Basically 2010 they went looking for abiotic oil could not find it anywhere on earth. Everything they found was tainted with DNA markers that matched the hydrocarbon make up. Of course the arguement was that the oil had picked this up some how or another to ignore this. Then 2012 and 2013 the bacteria dna is used in the lab and prove past question it makes oil.

    Understanding how oil is made is critical to understand what we can do when peak oil is hit. Fields that are organically live stopping pumping at a particular point and letting them recover is quite a sane move to delay off peek oil. Please note if you have pumped too much out of the field the temperatures may no longer be right so the field is now going to disappear if we pump more oil or not as the bacteria in the oil eat up what is left.

    The chemistry says abiotic oil should be out there somewhere. By the way most oil is not from dead dinosaurs it is said “long dead organisms” and that is wrong. The reality is most of the crude oil on earth is not dead and not that old really.
    http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/37040.pdf
    The crude oil field mix of hydrocarbons changes based on what bacteria is in it. Some bacteria make oil some bacteria eat oil. So oil in a oil field know of is being eaten and produced over and over again. The guess now is no part of oil we pump out the ground is older than 50 years old from its last chemical change.

    Natural crude Oil field is always changing the oil make up based on what population of bacteria are at work. The fact that oil is not dead is what gives oil extraction so many problems. So pumping out a oil field you can suck up a bacteria that gets really upset and produces a chemical that starts eating oil out of what ever is contain it. Some Oil fields are marked not to be extracted from due to bacteria mix contained and the risks involved.

    The fact that oil is not old is why we can be so sure we can make it if we just get the processes right.

    Yes the carbon might have come from creatures a long time ago but its the bacteria that produces the oil and keeps on altering the oil. In fact when attempting to extract oil out some fields bacteria is pumped into the field to alter the hydrocarbon mix to make the oil more pump-able. Fields that were classed as not extractable from because we did not understand that oil fields were alive and how to alter this.

    Some of the reason it why it so hard to find abiotic oil on earth is the volume of bacteria that eat oil. So you need bacteria in the oil producing oil as fast or faster than the bacteria consuming the oil to have a oil field. This also explains why people would do a geological survey and say that field contains X amount of oil then we were unable to extract anywhere near it. Yep what we did not extract the bacteria ate because when we extracted we moved the oil producing bacteria to the wrong temperature zone so throwing the complete field out of balance so trigger it to cease to exist as oil and be a gas field.

    dougman thinking that oil is abiotic has caused us humans to stuff up so many oil fields it is not funny. Earth natural Crude Oil that we are using need to be treated as a living thing because its about 20 percent living bacteria so no where near dead.

  7. dougman wrote, “Since when does carbon ionize via UV radiation under the surface of the planet”.

    I thought you were talking about methane in outer space…

    “please explain the source of hydrocarbons on the Saturn moon Titan”

  8. dougman says:

    “See Carbon. A tiny bit of energy will ionize it.”

    Now you are off subject again. Since when does carbon ionize via UV radiation under the surface of the planet” You not one of those hollow-earth theorists are you?

    “CH4 has covalent bonds with hydrogen and carbon. It doesn’t even require ionization, just heat/pressure, to form.”

    See, we are making progress! Heat/pressure, carbon/oxygen – hydrogen/helium, hmm a cocktail of elements, that chain together to form methane/ethane, which go one further to form other complex molecules. See where this is heading? Thank you proving the fact that oil is derived from abiotic sources, and not from dead dinosaurs.

  9. dougman, expressing extreme ignorance wrote, “carbon itself is immune to UV degradation”

    See Carbon. A tiny bit of energy will ionize it. Further, CH4 has covalent bonds with hydrogen and carbon. It doesn’t even require ionization, just heat/pressure, to form.

  10. dougman says:

    “Easy. Expose carbon and hydrogen to ultraviolet light from Sun and anything is possible.”

    Heh, carbon itself is immune to UV degradation. What happens when you leave a chunk of coal out in the sun? And hydrogen?, please explain how the lowest element on the table degrades further? PLEASE!

    Ionized gases are very reactive. Plasma, the fourth state of matter, in either a negative or positively charged state is fairly stable. Otherwise are sun would implode wouldn’t it?

    But you and Fifi, for whatever stupid reason, go off on these long off-subject topics in some vain attempt to explain position. Deaf Guy nailed it earlier when he said, “Fifi who pulls random pages from Wikipedia to support totally irrelevant claims… You can’t give any serious argument to support your own claim.”

    “A lot of helium is produced in radioactive decay.”

    Ahhhh, that’s a key. Couple that with the fact, that the mantle of the planet Earth holds more water, then all the surface water combined things start to become interesting: http://cips.berkeley.edu/events/rocky-planets-class09/Hirschmann.pdf

    You already admitted that methane is in abundance, which is represented as CH4. See where this is going? You Robert, are just confirming what I stated previously.

  11. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson
    A lot of helium is produced in radioactive decay.
    Deinococcus radiodurans what is a high radiation resistant bacteria remains are found in oil in ratio to helium content most of the time. Now of course there are cases were this does not exactly align. So exact explain to why the ratio of helium in oil is not explained. The contaminations like Helium and other things cannot be explained by the DNA in the oil all the time.

    The oil mix hydrocarbon can be explained by looking at DNA. In fact some of the hydrocarbons anti to abiotic oil process are explained by DNA being in the field.

    So this is very interesting information. So oil that we are using is more renewable than we presumed. Does this mean we should keep on burning oil we pump out ground most likely still no.

    Calm down Fifi… I wasn’t responding to you.
    Dougman does not change the fact the information you were responding with is out of date. Since its only a 2012-2013 break though its understandable you don’t know it. So the idea of abiotic oil is wrong for earth for what we are using and possibly wrong out their in the universe. So this mistake might have made us not find life. Also means how titan hydrocarbons have been formed is more up in the air. Lot of the theories presumed the titan oil is abiotic oil yet we have no evidence that it is absolutely that of course that theory was before we worked out bacteria make oil so opening up possibility of organic source.

    So dougman all your statements are on the wrong side of the 2012-2013 break though. Mind you it might take a few decades before everyone catches up.

  12. dougman wrote, “please explain the source of hydrocarbons on the Saturn moon Titan.
     
    Additionally, could you posit a theory as to why petroelum has so much helium”

    Easy. Expose carbon and hydrogen to ultraviolet light from Sun and anything is possible. Ionized gases are very reactive.

    A lot of helium is produced in radioactive decay. It’s natural that helium, a very mobile gas, could migrate to the same porous structures that hold oil/natural gas. In fact, only a very few places in the world have petroleum associated with high enough levels of helium to be economically viable. We used to use helium as a tracer in leak-detection in vacuum systems. It’s able to pass through the tiniest pores in metal or rock so it’s a very particularly dense rock that’s going to contain helium.

  13. dougman says:

    Calm down Fifi… I wasn’t responding to you.

  14. oiaohm says:

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130422154911.htm
    dougman its this experiment that undoes everything. organic detritus DNA found in natural Oil put into E. coli bacteria goes ahead and makes oil.

    “Statistical thermodynamic analysis has established
    clearly that hydrocarbon molecules which comprise
    petroleum require very high pressures for their
    spontaneous formation, comparable to the pressures
    required for the same of diamond. In that sense,
    hydrocarbon molecules are the high-pressure
    polymorphs of the reduced carbon system as is diamond
    of elemental carbon. Any notion which might suggest
    that hydrocarbon molecules spontaneously evolve in
    the regimes of temperature and pressure characterized
    by the near-surface of the Earth, which are the
    regimes of methane creation and hydrocarbon
    destruction, does not even deserve consideration.”

    This statement is completely wrong and right its not spontaneously happening. Bacteria formed oil does not require high pressure. In fact E. coli bacteria formed diesel and other oils at room temperature and normal atmospheric pressures. The belief in this statement is why we did not even look for it properly.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
    Modern geologists think that commercially profitable deposits of abiotic petroleum could be found, but no current deposit has convincing evidence that it originated from abiotic sources.
    Do note this line. We do not know of a single oil field we are using that is from abiotic source. Every oil field we are extracting from has all the evidence that its made by biological means. This came provable after 2013 when we learnt the DNA patterns that bacteria had to have to produce crude oil. The crude oil mix of hydrocarbons of a crude oil match the DNA of the bacteria that is left in it. If the DNA in the oil was just extracted from the material around it the odds of every fields hydrocarbon mix matching the contained DNA would be insanely low.

    If there is abiotic oil on earth in use it is was part biotic and abiotic had to be quite a small percentage abiotic because otherwise the hydrocarbon mix compared to DNA mix would not line up. Basically 2013 was a major break though year on this arguement when the DNA to produce hydrocarbons was worked out and that undid the arguement that the oil dissolved it.

    Additionally, could you posit a theory as to why petroelum has so much helium?
    This an open question.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans
    Might be explained by the fact these forms of bacteria that like highly radio active sources DNA is found in oil. If there is another bacteria or a subform of this that can do atomic fusion so taking 2 hydrogen and production 1 helium would explain it and if we can find it would be a very valuable bacteria. Until it found we don’t know if it exists or not or if there is some other source for the helium. The hydrocarbon part of the oil we use is explained. The helium contamination and some of the other contamination is not explained.

    Please note some oil fields have contaminations that they cannot be abiotic because contamination at abiotic temperatures and pressures in fact break the oil down. So those fields are biotic oil without question because no other method can explain those field existence.

    Since you know everything, please explain the source of hydrocarbons on the Saturn moon Titan.
    The correct answer is we don’t know. It might be true pure abiotic source oil that we currently cannot find on earth on Titan or there might be some organic out there producing it. It would be a interesting place to send a probe looking for bacteria life. Please note the bacteria producing oil under ground here in earth is some of the strongest bacteria we know in condition tolerances and Titan would be perfectly in the ballpark of good growing conditions for them.

    Physicists, chemists, thermodynamicists, chemical, mechanical, and petroleum engineers have rejected, already by the last quarter of the nineteenth century, the hypothesis that highly-reduced hydrocarbon molecules of high chemical potentials might somehow evolve spontaneously from highly-oxidized biological molecules of low chemical potentials.

    Yes this is completely wrong. The catalysts the bacterias are using was only suspected in 2012 and confirmed without question in 2013. Without the catalysts its not possible. Its not spontaneously but evolution at work. So they got it wrong so their theory is now disproved. Like O2 is not released from CO2 spontaneously. You could make the same argument as a reason why the earth should not have O2 yet we know plants do the process. Once you have found and proved the organism doing it the arguments why not are basically all wrong other wise you would not have the organism.

  15. dougman says:

    Spout this silliness? LOL…my god man.Where does your sense of ignorance end?

    Physicists, chemists, thermodynamicists, chemical, mechanical, and petroleum engineers have rejected, already by the last quarter of the nineteenth century, the hypothesis that highly-reduced hydrocarbon molecules of high chemical potentials might somehow evolve spontaneously from highly-oxidized biological molecules of low chemical potentials.

    The notion you believe derives from a 18th-century hypothesis on the biological origin of petroleum. See, in 1757 Russian Scientist, Mikhailo Lomonosov put forward a hypothesis and suggested that oil came from biological detritus. The main argument is that biomarkers are always found to exist as organic detritus within all oil deposits, which is certainly true. But unfortunately, oil exists inside the earth, and is surrounded by different types of geological soils – which all contain organic detritus – and oil is a wonderful solvent in which to dissolve and hold this detritus.

    Since you know everything, please explain the source of hydrocarbons on the Saturn moon Titan.

    Additionally, could you posit a theory as to why petroelum has so much helium? I would be pleased to review your reasoning for this, as helium is not any form of derivative of a carbon chain.

    Here is a dissertation on the subject of abiotic oil: http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.econ/2004-08/0126.html

  16. oiaohm says:

    No that process is not mimicking nature. It is using the man made process that is insanely fast and has been known from 1920 years.
    I better put a note here before dougman the idiot post. Research was restarted on this in the year 1920 but the historic evidence of people doing the process goes back at least 1920 years for making weapons of war as in oil to tip down the side of fortification walls and fire from weapons while under siege. The Hydrothermal liquefaction name comes from the year 1920 the process is older of course at the time the person naming the process thought they had just invented it.

    So this has been one of these inventions we have kept on inventing and forgetting about. Of course hydrothermal liquefaction may even be older than 1920 years just there is no evidence of it yet.

  17. oiaohm says:

    Oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. And oil, for better or for worse, is not a non-renewable resource. It, like coal, and natural gas, replenishes from sources within the mantle of earth.
    This is wrong. Wrong many times over but it was taught in school science before people knew any better mind you a lot of people have not caught up on the research on the topic since it starts in 2012-2013 showing the method nature truly used.

    Coal to make a 1 meter deep coal field requires a forest of trees for at least 200 years. You can go to a place like Gayndah in Australia and look at the research station data where core samples were taken 110 years ago where there was no coal now those areas after 100+ years of citrus growing have what is called green coal what is young coal that has not quite aged enough to be usable. If I could remember some of the other oversea places where they have 200+ year core samples that show no Coal field but there is a Coal fields at those locations now. Remember the Crust of the earth is 5 to 10 km deep and Coal forms in the top 500 metres of the crust. The mantle is deeper in than the Crust. So Coal does not form in the mantle but a lot of books were written before we knew where it formed and exactly how it formed. Of course with the amount of forest cleared there is a lot less Coal forming now than there use to be.

    Natural gas is mostly methane that we can collect from garbage dumps and many other places. Natural gas replenishes at an insane rare and us burn it and turning it into C02 is better than it leaking from a greenhouse effect point of view. Again this is something that forms in the Crust not the Mantle.

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijmicro/2012/156537/
    dougman how do you id what oil field a lot of Crude oil comes from. DNA profile the living organism that made the Oil. The mantle is too hot for the bacteria that make oil.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130422154911.htm
    And of course after someone dna profiled Crude then some one goes on and modifies E. coli bacteria to make exactly a particular section of oil.

    The reality is Natural crude oil is not abiotic but directly produced by living organisms and those living organisms are bacteria. Artificial crude oil can be produced using two abiotic process this was known when you were in school and lot of science textbooks, web sites so are based of this incorrect idea that one of these was the source of natural crude when neither are. Natural crude is a required Bacteria and a feed supply of organic material and the right temperature to form as the bacteria require right temperature to perform the chemical reactions to produce oil.

    Working out the source of Natural Crude explain the one oil field that has been pumped dry 5 times so far and its magically refilled. Most oil fields are either at the wrong depth so the wrong temperature due to geological movements so are not going to refill because of that or they don’t have a source of organic material to feed the bacteria so are not going to refill because of that. Of course there are a rare handful of oil fields that do naturally refill that directly show as that if we can work it out there is no reason why oil we use in products could not come from renewable sources.

    Oil is another thing that formed in the Crust not the Mantle as the Mantle is too hot. To use the abiotic process that is used to produce artificial crude oil you would require the temperatures of the Mantle but that is not where nature made crude oil is made.

    The science on oil has changes a lot from 2012-2013 data the textbooks and websites have not caught up with the discoveries. These discoveries may mean peek natural oil many only be a minor problem as we swap over to manufacturing oil from materials on the surface using processed based off how nature does it and ones humans have invented. The abiotic process that us humans use to refine oil is very power inefficient compared to what bacteria making oil do the reason why there is a lot of study now attempting to work out how to train bacteria to refine oil for us at a faster rate.

    Oil is a renewable resource if we are willing to invest in building the facilities to produce it or use a very limited set of existing oil fields. Most oil fields are not renewable because the process producing oil at those locations has ended. Some existing oil fields could come renewable if we start pumping into them feed materials and that is a one huge bet because those materials would also block up pumping the existing oil out if it does not work. Oil is one of those things that is renewable or not renewable based on where it coming from.

    Mimicking nature turns sewage into biocrude oil in minutes
    No that process is not mimicking nature. It is using the man made process that is insanely fast and has been known from 1920 years.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_liquefaction
    Yes Hydrothermal liquefaction.

    There are 3 ways to make Oil.
    1) Pyrolysis that is the wood gas process where you burn the source material then turn it into man made crude oil or refined products.
    2) Hydrothermal liquefaction what is basically cook the organic material with additives in a controlled way to make man made crude Oil or refined products. This was presumed to be the natural process until someone looked at the DNA coming out of natural crude and found that bacteria is how nature does it.
    3) Bacteria production that produces Natural crude oil and being researched to see if it can be used to make man made crude oil. Issue with bacteria production is that the bacteria takes it own sweet time so its not a very fast way at this stage of making crude oil.

    When did the research prove that bacteria could make crude was 2013 and sampling from different oil fields around the world to hold dna profiles to track/locate stolen oil had been done and the dna markers of bacteria that make crude is all over that data. So far there is not a single DNA profiled natural oil field that does not contain some of the varieties bacteria with the right DNA mutations to make oil. So how do you tell you don’t have natural crude is in fact a lack of DNA from the different bacteria types that in fact makes natural crude. Mind you the bacteria and dna in natural crude we will be wanting to remove anyhow.

    Nature did it one way and we humans found two completely different ways to-do it. So the three production methods mean that peek oil should only be a minor problem. The sooner we stop pumping oil out the ground and swap across to the 3 different oil production methods the better.

  18. dougman wrote, “Oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. And oil, for better or for worse, is not a non-renewable resource.”

    I guess you should talk to the oil men who locate oil deposits by studying layers of rock and the fossils they find in their drilling cores to zero in on likely areas. It’s true that methane is trapped in most rocks and there are some bacteria living in rock producing it but a lot comes from left overs of stars and natural processes in space. Jupiter and Saturn contain a lot of methane and have little or no rock. This is a result of their evolution, not biology, but Earth was a vibrant place for life in ancient times and we do observe carbonaceous deposits of peat and such these days. In earlier times Earth was much more volcanic and tropical rain forests were converted into beds of coal rather promptly.

    I suggest you actually look at rocks to figure out how beds of coal, pockets of natural gas and oil were formed. Then spout this silliness.

  19. dougman says:

    “which mimics the same geological process that turned prehistoric organic matter into crude oil”

    LOL, why do people still believe that tripe?

    Oil is abiotic, not the product of long decayed biological matter. And oil, for better or for worse, is not a non-renewable resource. It, like coal, and natural gas, replenishes from sources within the mantle of earth.

Leave a Reply