Preparing to Hunt

Well, the grouse are definitely winning. I haven’t even seen one this season, so I guess I’ll hunt deer. My muzzle-loading season starts in a week. I don’t even need to check that equipment because it’s so reliable.

Yesterday, two of us went out and fired several rifles. One .308 Winchester just would not shoot properly. It barely made groups on paper at 100 yards. Two others grouped really well. We tested rifles and ammunition in 308 and 7mm Remington Magnum. That 7mm is a tack-driver. The first group with 175 RN reduced loads at 130 yards was a little triangle about 0.5 inch centre to centre. That load is designed to be used within 200 yards so there’s no problem hitting deer close. Some 150 grain full-power spitzers grouped a little worse but were still good enough for easy 350 yard kills. I made a few more rounds of each today. The 7mm Rem Mag will be the go to rifle on a new hunting property with some wide openings. The 308 with 165 BTSP full-power loads will be the backup… I’ll probably use a Mauser either in 8X57 or .30-’06. Those always work and have iron sights, the way real men hunt unless using sharp sticks.

Today a trip was planned to scout the new property including GPS surveys, ranging and sighting in at extended ranges. The new place is far from the city (not even cell-phone reception…) and is near where I hunted grouse very profitably back in the 1980s. There will be some big bucks there and at this time of the year some pine mushrooms.

Life goes on with some of us planning the killing of others… I already have official permission to hunt bucks. Too bad I had to pay a licensing fee. That’s omitted for us old guys for grouse…

UPDATE Deer were seen grazing in the middle of the day on the new property. Looks promising. Lots of edges and open spaces, perfect for 7mm Rem Mag.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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11 Responses to Preparing to Hunt

  1. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson it would be interesting to compare the differences between the groups.

    So maybe its not just sharp pointy stick but also speed of human movement/range of weapon equalling a magic figure of effective range where deer are in extermination hell.

    Also with extermination of deer in areas in Australia when I double check with compound bows those were used in combination with motorcycles or horse back. Yes a horse is a lot happier in most cases if you are firing a bow off horse back than a gun.

    With sharp sticks, the best they could do is go after the animals with sled dogs or by ambush.
    https://archaeology.uiowa.edu/american-indian-archery-technology-0

    I do have to ask a question here. Sharp sticks is that spears only. There is a lot of area that in the USA that had bow and arrow was not dominate or not existent. The 7 year rule appears in the groups of American Indians with bow and arrow as their dominate weapon before the arrival of guns. That there is problem at bow and arrow level technology going up to gun equals bigger problem.

    USA weapon history.
    1) spear with dog sleds and most areas the atlatl did they all keep on using the atlatl is a question.
    3) bow and arrow like we have it documented that some areas had not seen a bow and arrow at all before 500 AD then through to modern day there are areas that never used bow and arrow and jumped straight from spear to gun.
    4) in the 1960~ you see upgrade to horse back and guns

    So in the heavy bow and arrow used areas there is over a 1000 years of hunting regulation before the USA gets the gun and why they got really disgusted with the bison hunts because the early bison hunts were not obeying their hunting rules.

    So there are chances that there are many areas in Canada that were spear only or possible spear and atlatl that did not have regulation due to lack of effectiveness so regulated by weapon choice.

    This could also be terrain so speed of human movement limited so cancelling the problem.

    What has been documented tell us that at least in the bow and arrow areas there was hunting regulation before the Christopher Columbus and the Spanish.

    From what you are saying Robert it was not spread everywhere. This is kinda to be expected.

  2. oiaohm wrote, “the bow and arrow was enough to kill out regions of deer and the American natives learnt that was a bad idea and implemented their own form of self regulation of survey area before starting hunt”.

    I’ve lived and worked among aboriginal people. There was no such self-regulation. The population of humans was so small and the territory so vast that sharp sticks could not eradicate deer except in tiny areas close to villages. Up north, I once saw caribou walk right into town along a road. Despite using firearms there were still herds numbering in the thousands a few miles away. That’s in the modern day. With sharp sticks, the best they could do is go after the animals with sled dogs or by ambush. There was no slaughter to extinction because it just was not possible except in the case of a few ancient species which probably weren’t going to make it anyway. Caribou survived wolves and grizzlies. Humans with sharp sticks were no problem. Same with deer.

  3. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson the bow and arrow was enough to kill out regions of deer and the American natives learnt that was a bad idea and implemented their own form of self regulation of survey area before starting hunt. If they did not find enough from the survey they moved to another area. So they did not just kill a deer because they saw a deer. They killed a deer because they had seen many deer and were sure if they should be killing buck or doe. Yes all doe deer without buck deer equals no next generation just like all buck and no doe equals no next generation. The American native policy that what ever hunting action you perform better be correct for at least 7 years into the future. Yes it takes less than 7 years of incorrect/correct hunting to kill deer out of an area. Why correct hunting in Australia where deer were feral pest in particular areas its quite quick to exterminate deer some areas were cleared by modern compound bow hunters and could have been done with older long bows and the like. Feral cats and rabbits are way harder.

    Modern USA and Canada hunting regulation is basically about the same thing. Most big game class animals are very simple to exterminate even with basic bow and arrow particularly if poison is added into the mix. Guns just make it way lower skill level of entry.

    Big game hunting has to be regulated if you wish to be able to perform it years into the the future.

    Something else from farmed deer here in Australia quality of meet is improved by selective breeding. This brings up a interesting question for deer populations in USA and Canada are hunters taken the correct buck and doe out of the population to make sure the quality of future hunted deer improves. Or are they taking the best DNA out of the population because of preference killing.

    So there is a lot of questions over what should and should not be regulated about big game. The one thing for sure we are most likely under regulated even in the best regulated countries to achieve the best future outcomes.

  4. oiaohm wrote, ” USA natives contain their own internal regulation system so they don’t make individual choice if they should or should not go hunting a deer either.”

    In the old days of sharp sticks it was virtually impossible to hunt deer to extinction because terms were more equal. With rifles being able to kill deer reliably to ~400 yards, camo, rang-finders etc. regulations are needed to prevent wiping out the herd in a few years. Deer multiply fairly quickly but if there are no bucks and does there won’t be any fawns. Only a tiny minority hunt these days so extinction should be preventable. The question is can all the competing interests be satisfied.

  5. oiaohm says:

    USA regulation on hunting comes in when the American bison are basically hunted almost out of existence. To prevent other creatures facing the same problem dougman including deer. Why you should have tags to hunt anything under the big game classifications.

    So basically the USA regulation on hunt is so that you don’t find one day you have no more deer to hunt. The USA hunting regulation is not working too well because a lot of USA idiots are going around hunting illegally.

    Lot of USA idiots use socialism as excuse to not to take part in the USA government run management process for a lot of these animals. Apparent the USA idiots don’t care if they wake up one day and they have no more deer or other wild life to hunt because they have killed it all. With deer in the USA some states are high populations and some are still very low even inside sections of a there are quite a bit of variation. Reason for a tag system before shooting so population numbers in area are looked at before person is legally allowed to shot.

    Most USA idiots like this get called one of the follow names a redneck, cracker, hillbilly or gun nut by other USA people.

    Hunting is regulated in very much the same ways in most countries with stable government structures because wild life face basically the same set of problems from human. Humans make very poor estimated by themselves if they should shot or if they should not shot on how the local population of animal is going. USA natives contain their own internal regulation system so they don’t make individual choice if they should or should not go hunting a deer either.

    Yes there are creatures in every country with managed hunting you can shoot all you like these are the feral pest animals the government does not care if you completely exterminate. Any animal the government wants to have for future generations will have a government regulated system that mandates getting legal approval to hunt. So really dougman is no better than a poacher of any other game.

    Please don’t say I only take 1 or 2. A few hundred people take 1 or 2 in the wrong area and that group of people just exterminate that local population of that creature. Responsible hunting of what is classed as big game is getting the proper permits/approvals that do cost to make sure you have not made a mistake on how the local population animal of your area is in fact going It is so you do not take part in exterminating that animal by being uninformed idiot.

    The poachers justification is one of the following:
    1) socialist/some other excuse why government regulation or cultural regulations don’t apply to them.
    2) They are stuck truly between a rock and a hard place. Unable to put food on the table.

    Type 1 Poachers found who are doing it because they are using some excuse should be executed or jailed for natural life with no possibility of speaking to anyone out side the prison ever again directly. I am normally 100 percent anti the death as a punishment but most of these spread the idea like a virus so constantly making wild life management not function properly.

    You have to remember with wild life if there is a need to control numbers taking too few is just bad as taking too many. When the government managing these animals is having to guess how many were taken by those not obeying the rules and attempting to give permits/tags out to manage populations they will get the numbers wrong. Regulation of hunting requires some party to know how many have been killed and how many will breed to be sure you are keeping the kill at correct levels. If the one regulating hunting is having to guess they will be screwing it up from time to time sometimes very badly including localised exterminations.

  6. dougman wrote, “this is what socialism does to a country, it ruins it.”

    Nope. This preserves and manages the population of deer so that my grandchildren and theirs will be able to enjoy hunting as much as I do. If folks hunted deer to extinction would we be better off? That is the alternative. The deer population is down here because of several severe winters in a row. This is the third year of bucks-only and the population is coming back. I remember the deer population peaked in the middle 1990s. In those days one encountered herds of deer in November, not the rare sightings we saw last year. Management of natural resources is a proper role of government. One could have hunters/nature-lovers do it too, but it’s just more efficient to let the government do it because they are there for many other similar roles and they have access to and the means to collect relevant information like the number of deer-automobile collisions in different localities. The only deficiency I find in the current management setup here is that the government is not as open as they could be with sharing that data promptly. For instance, they have all the data they need to set the fall quota in March but don’t reveal it until a publication in August. That messes with our ability to plan the hunt. I’ve told them to modernize their website with integration of databases, but they’re a bit slow to change. Conservation officers I’ve met are first rate though. They do a fine job.

  7. dougman says:

    “but you still have to follow the seasons and quotas and get the provincial licence for deer. ”

    See, this is what socialism does to a country, it ruins it.

  8. dougman says:

    “Hunting big game(this includes bucks) without government permission of some form in the USA is illegal. ”

    LOL! Next you’ll be saying that exhaling is a form of pollution, as it releases carbon into the atmosphere and I must license myself.

    “Anyone saying otherwise is a idiot who does not know the law in the USA.”

    And you do? I already proved that you have no idea anything about the legal system here in the States.

    “The USA has a lot of idiots going around shooting stuff in illegal ways.”

    Oh!…do tell. Share your knowledge.

    “Right to bare arms does not give the USA person right to hunt/use weapon in all cases.”

    The second amendment isn’t about hunting you dweeb. I never inferred it did. Also, make sure you do use the proper wording, its “bear” NOT “bare”.

  9. dougman wrote, “Permission to hunt? LAME.
     
    I just go in my back yard. I got a buck two years ago”

    Well, here there are two permissions required. One is from the provincial government. The deer are considered “property of the crown” but if they aren’t hunted will overrun farms and be involved in collisions with automobiles, so a licensing fee is charged. It mainly goes to maintaining public lands for wildlife/hunters/tree-huggers/hikers/berry-pickers/etc.

    Then there is permission of the landowner. If you are the owner it’s less of a problem but you still have to follow the seasons and quotas and get the provincial licence for deer. It’s $41 CDN or so. It’s a bit complicated if land is leased by a farmer from the province. Usually, farmers vacate the land of cattle/hay/equipment well before hunting season but hunters still have to respect the lessee and not leave gates open, damage crops/forage etc. It’s much simpler just to own land but TLW does not agree…

  10. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_license#United_States
    dougman you must be a Native Americans or Alaskan Natives or Active USA mil or medically recognised as Blind. Or you just admitted to committing an offence under USA law on-line unless you have a license to hunt granting you the permission.

    When it comes to permission to hunt deer in Canada and USA the laws are basically the same you need a license that gives you permission those have to be bought every year unless you are in the exempt list getting permission automatically or in New York and bought a life-time.

    Even worse in most USA states for something like a buck that is classed as big game you are meant to have acquired an a tag for everyone you are planing to shot in advance unless of course you are on the exempt list. Yes those tags have a not refundable fee change and are also not transferable.

    A lot of USA people don’t know their own countries laws. Hunting big game(this includes bucks) without government permission of some form in the USA is illegal. Anyone saying otherwise is a idiot who does not know the law in the USA. The USA has a lot of idiots going around shooting stuff in illegal ways.

    Right to bare arms does not give the USA person right to hunt/use weapon in all cases.

  11. dougman says:

    Permission to hunt? LAME.

    I just go in my back yard. I got a buck two years ago using 7.62×35 on a 10″ SBR using the AR platform and a red-dot sight.

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