Grapes

Yes. Something useful grows in my yard. Grapes. Two years ago I ordered two vines from a local supplier. They grew a little the first year, establishing roots. The second year, they took off, reaching the second rung of a trellis I built for them. They fruited heavily. I was torn between pruning the fruit early to allow the vines to develop and wanting a taste. To my surprise, the variety produced was not what I ordered. It’s possible that vines were not growing on their own roots and the winter killed the good stuff… Anyway, I got an abundance of small purple seeded grapes instead of large green seedless grapes.

I should be disappointed except that the fruit tastes wonderful. For a week, I’ve been eating them out of hand and saving seeds. Today, the grapes were obviously fully ripened because they tasted rather sweet and were difficult to pick off individually without breakage. I and a grandchild harvested the lot of them. In the process of making grape jelly I rendered 2.5L of juice. Unfortunately, I only had gelatine for 2L so we ended up with syrup but it’s absolutely delicious on bread… If the ten more vines I planted this spring are equally productive, I will have a busy week a year from now. I will also plant some of the seed I’ve collected to see what develops. Finding a place for them will be a challenge as we’ve planted so many apples, apricots, and plums. I may give up on corn and plant a wide swath of orchard just for the grapes.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in family, food, horticulture and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

26 Responses to Grapes

  1. oiaohm says:

    dougman did you know that one of the usages of cob bread that was shaped like modern day corn cobs was used to do the same thing this is why British and Spanish settlers in Americas looked at corn cobs that way because it shape matched something they knew was used as a toilet paper replacement. So yes usage of corn cobs as toilet paper replacement goes back to what they are named after. Mind you the cob bread shaped that way was a lot nicer on the ass than corn cobs. As old saying goes when you only have hammer everything nail shaped starts looking like a nail. This really does apply to corn cobs used as toilet paper replacement.

    So yes dougman I know that fact I also know why it happened. Of course it suspected that the name corn cob only come into usage after it had already been used a toilet paper replacement. So you can guess there are a few more suspected reason why the word corn was used. Like did it cause corns on your ass. There is a lot of debate why corn got used as marketing name for Maize products and it quite fun reading all the different theories.

    Now the natives of Americas if they use Maize as toilet paper it was only the husk or the leaves it was only the invaders who got the mad idea of using the corn cob. Please do note if they use there were other items they put highly up preference list.

    If you had read the full story on how corn cobs end up at toilet paper replacement you would have also know that corn for Maize is a form of marketing description. Its like using “round up” as name for glyphosate .

    dougman basically you just brought in historic example of where using corn/maize was mostly being used by the under informed so did not know where more suitable product to use was near by. So Maize being used as a universal solution by idiots and the idiots having worse outcomes is not a new USA problem there is many centuries of this problem.

  2. dougman says:

    Did you know you can use a Corn cob to wipe your ass?

  3. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caryopsis
    Robert is what corn is. This is fruit and grain in one.

    But since you enjoy using Google search engines, please explain for the class, the etymology of “corn”, “maize” and their vernacular over the past five-hundred years.
    This is wrong. The split between corn and maize was define was set down by the Royal Society in England. It in the first guide book of American plants as corn as product and the plant as maize. Unfortunately it requires idiots like dougman to get off tail and go to library.

    Corn name is missed used in so many books it is not funny. Correct science usage is quite strict.

    vernacular over the past five-hundred years.<<< Love the claim. Total bogus. Term corn only appears in the 1700-1800 500 years says that we would have to be 2100-2200.

    Maize is older based off the original names.
    Maize (/ˈmeɪz/ MAYZ; Zea mays subsp. mays, from Spanish: maíz after Taíno mahiz)
    Did you not go to the Wikipedia and notice this. Only altered minor-ally in how it said Saying english Maize to person using Taino would understand it as mahiz said badly. So we don't have a clue how long something sound close Maize has been used for the crop.

    Also more fun the name corn for Maize in fact comes from the word cob because a corn cob happens to have a shape like a old english type of bread. Saying Maize Cob sell product did not sound good. Also corn word comes from "Corns and calluses" because a corn cob in fact looks like the english cob type of bread covered in like calluses. So a corn and cob are not in fact names but english descriptions of a product.

    Yes the Royal Society in England came up with the name corn for Maize as marketing quite a long time ago. So corn is the made up name to sell Maize plant products. If you want to use the true name its Maize no question.

    dougman so you are basically show you are not educated because you are wanting to use a description as a name. Corn cob should be seen as a description not a name. In fact corn should been seen as a description.

    Just because someone uses wicked to mean cool does not mean wicked is cool. And this is what you are doing with your usage of the word corn dougman.

    If another plant happened to produce something that looked like a corn cob and was not a maize you could call that a corn cob as well this is because corn cob is not a plant but a description.

  4. oiaohm says:

    dougman
    Corn is grass too.
    Sorry no Maize is grass. Corn is not the plant when it comes to feeding to animals.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize

    More like you are working from Google searches.
    Wrong guess as normal. Have you not noticed that everything I have been using so far is linked one way or another to DPI Australia. So I am not using google. There is an Australian DPI search engine for this stuff and it not google.

    http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/dairy/feeding-and-nutrition/cost-of-supplements
    If you read here dougman not all grasses are created equal. Notice Pasture hay this is normal Australian improved grasses. Better yielding using those than using Maize due to higher protein.

    Something that people are not aware of.
    http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science/Appetite-suppressing-effect-of-proteins-explained-by-researchers
    USA getting highly overweight with fat right. Simple enough make more and more of your food stuffs from low proteins it is the result. You are trying to produce good quality beef for many markets you don’t want a beast that is more fat than meet.

    Feeding Maize was known to be unhealthy to cattle for many reasons we did not understand the protein link until 2012.

    dougman so there is a very bad price making your idea of food source around Maize.

    dougman keep on claiming I am googling so you don’t have to admit that suggesting Maize over grapes is wrong. Ram from a quality food point of view grapes are way more useful than corn and even way more useful than the whole plant of Maize.

    Also dougman you need to learn to call stuff by the correct names.

  5. dougman wrote, “fruits are the ovaries of a flowering plant that develops after its seeds are fertilized”.

    You would be hard pressed to prove that a cob of corn was ever “an ovary”. Ovary: “That part of the pistil which contains the seed, and in most flowering plants develops into the fruit.”

    Pistil: “The seed-bearing organ of a flower. It consists of an ovary, containing the ovules or rudimentary seeds, and a stigma, which is commonly raised on an elongated portion called a style.”

    Corn, in fact has separate pollen and seeded parts, no pistil at all.

    Botanists do indeed call ears of corn “fruits”, but they speak a foreign language. We are not botanists here. Botanists have no right to change the meaning of my words.

  6. dougman says:

    “Corn is product and Maize is plant.”

    Trying to define common names now? Jesus, you are dope. Both words are synonymous these days in almost every country on the globe.

    But since you enjoy using Google search engines, please explain for the class, the etymology of “corn”, “maize” and their vernacular over the past five-hundred years.

  7. dougman says:

    “Sorry dougman I am working from science papers”

    More like you are working from Google searches.

  8. dougman says:

    Corn is grass too.

  9. oiaohm says:

    http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/dairy/feeding-and-nutrition/cost-of-supplements
    dougman see the leafy bits of Maize plants that are not corn or corn cobs when you feed it to cattle is called Maize.

    Barley, $230 per tonne is a lot more than Maize $45 dollars per ton until you work out you need 6 tons of Maize material to get the same growth as 1 ton of Barley and then you have to store and transport 6 tones of Maize to get the same results 1 ton of Barley.

    There is nothing from the Maize plant that made good stock feed.

    Sorry dougman I am working from science papers not stupid marketing material about how good a crop is to grow. Maize is horribly poor crop.

    The food value for cattle stock feed being poor in fact almost equally applies to humans that corn products are horrible poor crop if you are attempting to feed everyone.

    Now if you only search for corn instead of Maize you will not find the science papers over the plant because in proper science papers it mostly not called corn. This is why its critical to know what is a product of a plant and what is the name of the plant you grow. Corn is product and Maize is plant.

  10. oiaohm says:

    dougman at least in school Australians are taught what maize and refer to corn as a product of maize that is correct.

    Sorry the poor education system of the USA produces idiots like you who fall for advertising and not even know what corn is.

  11. dougman says:

    Is it true that Australians grow/produce and multiply idiots like you?

  12. oiaohm says:

    Actually, I would tend to side with actual botanists on this one.
    dougman you want to start a cat fight between botanists ask them to prove what corn/maize and there is one correct scientific answer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereal
    If you want to get into the nitty gritty of scientific naming. Corn is a Cereal.

    Yes the nitty gritty corn/maize is not a pure grain, pure fruit or pure vegetable has a simple title Cereal.

    So dougman calling corn/maize “vegetable, a grain, and a fruit” is wrong because this description of the parts that make it up not what it is. Its a nightmare that not all governments around the world have the term Cereal in the legal framework. So if corn/maize is “vegetable, a grain, and a fruit” is a legal debate. The science answer is simple Cereal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caryopsis
    Fruit and grain are not independent terms. Caryopsis is a type of fruit called grain all Cereal crops are. So a grain is a fruit. So there is no need to question if corn is grain and fruit as a grain is both if the type of grain is Caryopsis that common name is cereal grains. In fact using the name Cereal goes can covers the vegetable usage as well.

    dougman you did not leave what corn/maize botanists defines but entered the world of legally define crops with that corn/maize is “vegetable, a grain, and a fruit” because a correctly trained botanist should not call it any one of those three.

    Due to how many people screw up what corn/maize is most of the time it simpler just to call it a product. You call corn/maize Cereal that it is by DNA and you will still have idiots say its a vegetable or fruit or grain instead. Now if you had corrected me and said corn/maize was a Cereal you would have had a point.

    Please note you are not meant by scientific terms to call corn as corn its maize. So you don’t ever grow corn as such you grow maize and the produce of maize is corn.

    dougman the reality you did not know enough on this to comment on it. maize grow if you want to eat corn cobs.

    dougman like it or not corn word on its own by scientific terms is a product as its not a plant.

    farmers “grow” produce
    Funny enough farmers technically don’t grow corn they produce corn by breaking it off maize. Farmers grow maize.

  13. oiaohm says:

    dougman anything produced is a product.

    USA papers on the topic are incomplete over and over again. Like eat more grass feed beef when reality the most effective weight gain vs water vs area is oats.

    Even in grass feed are the farmers using improved pasture or not there is big differences.

    vegetable, a grain, and a fruit
    http://empirezone.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/corn-vegetable-fruit-or-grain/
    Really those titles are all mater of legal debate alter from country to country on corn/maize . Some countries laws only allow a crop to be registered as one of vegetable, grain or fruit so corn becomes great fun.

    So safest title for corn/maize is not vegetable, grain or fruit but product at least then there is not international variation in meaning.

    https://dpif.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/233301/tn110.pdf
    Next best after items like oats is not pure grass but grass and legumes.

  14. dougman says:

    “Farmers do produce corn.”

    Never said it wasn’t. In reality, it’s grown, as in farmers “grow” produce. How can farmers produce products or even perhaps produce produce? Hammy’s command of the English language, along with your feeble defense of him is fallible at best.

    “I can buy it in the “produce” section of grocery stores.”

    I can pick it from my backyard, why can’t you?

    “It’s not a vegetable. It is a cereal, a grain. It is not a fruit.”

    Actually, I would tend to side with actual botanists on this one. As corn is classified by real botanists as a fruit, as are tomatoes, green peppers, cucumbers, zucchini and other squashes. The definition of a true vegetable is anything that is the root, stem or leaf of a plant. Whereas, fruits are the ovaries of a flowering plant that develops after its seeds are fertilized or sometimes even without fertilization.

  15. dougman wrote, “corn is not a PRODUCT, it is a vegetable, a grain, and a fruit you dimwit. “

    The sad thing about ignorance is that the ignorant don’t realize they are ignorant and then attack more knowledgeable people “for ignorance”…

    Farmers do produce corn. I can buy it in the “produce” section of grocery stores. It’s not a vegetable. It is a cereal, a grain. It is not a fruit. The proper response to a demonstration of ignorance is either a polite silence or instruction/teaching, enlightenment, not attack. How crippled society would be if children were punished for what they don’t know, as if they are at fault for the failures of their elders.

  16. dougman says:

    “Corn is not the super product that is made out to be”

    And you are a botanist? HAH!…corn is not a PRODUCT, it is a vegetable, a grain, and a fruit you dimwit.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-to-rethink-corn/

  17. oiaohm says:

    DUDE…you just saved the planet from global warming, you should be nominated for the Nobel!
    Cattle eating oats also produces less emissions than eating corn based feed as well and it does not have the transport restrictions of grape marc of course is not as good on the emissions side without additives of some form.

    grape marc at 5kg per day (50/50) with the rest being oats or wheat or barley have also showing the same major methane reduction as pure feeding grape marc with higher growth rates. Of course corn is pure failure with or without grape marc.

    dougman corn as stock feed just makes absolutely no sense. Corn is low growth rates per KG transported and high methane production so corn as a stock feed is totally bad for the environment.

    Lot of other items on that list of corn uses are in the same camp of making no sense at all to-do them if you consider the environment price and if they can be done more environmentally clean using different crop.

    Really if more people woke up how much bull the corn marketing in the USA is and started moving the subsidies to somewhere viable.

    100% grape marc gives better growth rates than 100% corn based as well. So doing a 50% grape marc with 50% corn based is basically lose growth and also due to how bad corn is have worse methane production.

    Really anyone who knows the science behind raising cattle would never be recommending corn based products to be ever feed to cattle. Yes why feeding in Australia you end up on the wrong side of government regulation.

    Interesting question are USA Humans producing higher methane than humans living in other areas who don’t have diets as rich in corn products?

    There are other ways to get the methane reduction from cattle without using grape marc like feeding a mix of garlic and oats. Yes really warped Australian DPI joke cartoon cattle breathing on vampire and vampire vaporising is how come I remember it yes that and the joke is not full joke the cattle do in fact end up with garlic breath. Has a greater methane reduction than using grape marc and higher growth rates because that is less than 10 percent garlic with 90 percent oats. Of course where would you find the 10 percent garlic to feed all the cattle on earth is a major issue to-do that full scale.

    dougman there is more than one possible way to get on top of the cattle methane problem issue is none of them involve corn and most of them require other crops growing in large volumes to make them cost effective. So people should be going around to farmers suggesting the alternatives to corn as this will help the environment one way or another. It also requires subsidies to be put on the crops we need and taken off corn.

    Corn is not the super product that is made out to be. I could pick other items of that corn list dougman brought in and the science data around them showing that many of those usages are stupid ideas done because it cheap not because its the right thing to be doing.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-14/impact-of-cattle-on-methane-emissions-downgraded/7027088
    This is the super scary number. dougman methane emissions from Australian cattle are 24% lower than the USA ones on average. Yes usage of corn as stock feed is quite a major problem. That is before using reduction stuff like garlic or grape marc. Just change to using oats instead of corn as a stock feed.

    Funny enough how to reduce cattle methane production was not researched in Australia for environmental reasons at first but so that live export ships don’t go boom.

  18. dougman says:

    “Wine waste-product cuts cattle emissions!”

    DUDE…you just saved the planet from global warming, you should be nominated for the Nobel!

  19. oiaohm says:

    dougman
    LOL…I dare you to tell a farmer to feed grapes to his cattle, I dare you!!
    http://www.raynerag.com.au/blog/feeding-grape-marc-to-stock
    Really this shows how much of a idiot you are. I would totally recommend feeding grape marc to cattle as long as it can be sourced with required certifications. Feeding grape marc to cattle that is a bi-product of wine production is done quite a lot and it in fact quite a good feed compared to corn in fact almost anything is a good feed for cattle instead of corn. So telling a farmer to feed grapes that have been juiced to cattle is not insane at all.
    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00888950/document
    If a farmer can in fact get hands on quality grape marc there beast put on more weight faster than using the corn based products its been studied in many places. France, Australia…. results are the same over and over again.

    Of course grape marc is no were near the best out there.

    The reality is corn is not good stock feed at all. Oats are used more in Australia as that is in fact one of the best feed stocks to get cattle weight gain.
    http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/agriculture/livestock/beef/feeding-and-nutrition/feeding-options-for-beef-cattle
    If you go and check every state of Australia recommending feed material for cattle Oats never corn. If you dig deeper you will find grape marc is in fact on the list of acceptable yet corn is not. Why because corn is classed as a total joke product to feed to cattle for weight gain and health of cattle. Yes Australian farmers feeding corn to there cattle can in fact get into trouble for not using an approved feed type and possible endangered animal heath.

    Of course I would not recommend feeding grape marc instead of Oats.

    Really I don’t understand why USA farmers use corn so much with cattle due how poor performing it is. All I can think is that corn products are dirt cheap for USA farmers and the USA government does not give a rats about the downsides of it.

    Seriously, the majority of food that you ingest has corn products in it these days.
    Majority of the food I eat does not contain corn or corn products. Avoiding wheat that would be a problem.

    To be correct I have never seen corn jam or corn bread on shelf here at all. I have seen true grape seed flour and bread also a lot of grape jams.

    dougman I am sorry to say that paper you had with list of advertised uses for corn when you dig deeper into studies into a lot of those listed uses corn turns out not to be such a great product. Corn is lot about yield and USA government subsidies making it dirt cheep. All the heavily refined products of Corn can in fact come out of rice and oats for better yields vs water and land usage.

    I will give you more and more USA products are ending up with Corn in them why because USA produces so much corn they have to-do something with it. Some of USA health problems is over usage of corn bi-products in food. The fact the usa grows about 1/3 of the world corn is a fairly big problem for them.

  20. dougman says:

    “If you put the whole grape produces head to head with whole corn products there are more grape products….You don’t see jams and other products straight out of corn.”

    LOL….Google corn jelly or how about say, CORN BREAD?

    Seriously, the majority of food that you ingest has corn products in it these days.

    I suppose next, you are going to attempt to google your way out of the argument, as always and “inform” me that sugar only comes from cane.

  21. dougman says:

    Ham-Dong, tell that to all the farmers growing corn over grapes. I challenge you to come to America and have them right their wrongs!

    LOL…I dare you to tell a farmer to feed grapes to his cattle, I dare you!!

  22. oiaohm says:

    http://bakingbites.com/2015/07/what-is-grape-seed-flour/
    dougman really you jest.

    Corns advantage is yield not usages. Dougman grapes in fact have more usages than corn. In fact lot of the same usages of corn can be made from grapes.

    Fructose and Glucose and everything starch that you can make from corn you can make from grapes.

    Dry-milled Corn products in grape are all made from grape seed.

    https://www.adelaide.edu.au/news/news80162.html
    Biofuel Grapes handled correctly better yielding than core.

    Gluten not part of grapes also not required in human food and this is something grape does not provide.

    If you put the whole grape produces head to head with whole corn products there are more grape products.

    You don’t see jams and other products straight out of corn.

    In fact grapes is not even plant with the most usages.

    With all the advertisement put into how useful corn is it no where close to the most useful plants out.

    Grapes are only slightly ahead of corn in usages. There are other plants that kick both Grapes and corns but in usages.

    Grapes have more usages without complex machinery than corn as well.

    Usage is mostly not reason to grow corn. Yield vs Area is. Grapes do have the advantage as long as they are correctly placed you don’t have to replant them every year.

    Modular sunfish large seeds in grapes are good if you are wanting to make flour or other grape seed products. The variety of grape really does effect it usages. Of course seedless are completely worthless for making grape flour. Most of the grapes I grow are seed less because I want them for jam, dried fruit and fresh fruit.

  23. dougman says:

    “Grapes are definitely more useful than corn!”

    http://www.ncga.com/upload/files/documents/pdf/cornusesposter.pdf

    LOL…. surely you jest!

  24. Modular Sunfish wrote, “Which varieties did you start?”

    Prairie Star beside a concrete block wall and Somerset (this year) on a berm.

    The Prairie Stars should have survived. They were sheltered on the north side by concrete but we had very little snow cover until the middle of January so they were exposed.

  25. Modular sunfish says:

    Which varieties did you start? Wild grapes may grow that far north. If you can get them started there, they have great flavor and make far better jelly than any of the domesticated varieties. In a situation where they grow, they tend to thrive and need little maintenance. The downside is that the wild grapes themselves are tiny and have large seeds, so are not good for much else than jelly.

  26. ram says:

    Grapes are definitely more useful than corn!

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