DisUnited Kingdom

“Leave has 51.3% of votes counted so far”
 
See EU Referendum Results
I just watched the UK disintegrate in real time on the Internet. I have mixed feelings about that. My ancestors left England over a century ago for better opportunities. In the current referendum, England largely voted to leave with a huge majority. Scotland and other regions mostly voted to stay in the EU. While much of the fervour has been about separating UK from the shenanigans of the EU, this is also about breaking up UK. Does anyone really think Scotland which is teetering on the brink of separation anyway will not be pushed over the edge by being dragged out of the EU by Big Brother, England?

This is a man-made disaster. The EU is a mess but it is fixable. Breaking up the UK will be a bigger mess and it isn’t fixable. There hasn’t been any trust since before the Battle of Culloden and it’s gone now. In the short term there will be disruption of trade, weakening of NATO in the face of Russia and Daesch, more moves to separate UK into components… After all, if independence from EU is a good idea, surely independence from England is also a good idea…

The price of gold shot up and US stock futures dropped ~3% as the vote was counted. Gold is $1300USD/ounce as I write this ($1308 as I pushed “publish”). At least there is a short term gold lining for me and mine. Maybe I should cheer for Trump… I own a lot of gold-stocks…

PS: An hour later, the British Pound is down 10% and gold is $1325USD/ounce. Amazing. Despite all the warnings about what would happen, folks voted to give away 10% of their wealth overnight. This should be a warning to Trump-suppositories. Trump wants to build a wall with the world and interfere with all trade everywhere, not just local stuff. How much gold will the wealthy of USA buy to escape the USD? I was hoping my pension annuity would rise ~100% this year. At this rate it could be ~400%. I pity the young people who have to live in the economy these fools are creating. I can always build a shack in the bush and live off the land but they have to work for a living, commute, pay mortgages, etc. They won’t have the option to opt out.

PPS: It’s done. At midnight, my time, zulu – 5, the Leave bunch have 16.7 million votes out of 72.1% turnout of 46,501,241 electors. That’s 50% of the votes. This is insane. UK is jumping off a cliff because 35% of electors say so. It’s the Trump effect all over again. USA be warned. Vote or be damned!

OMG!: It’s the morning after and David Cameron, PM of UK has resigned, DOW futures are off 500 points and gold is hanging around at $1320USD/ounce. Some gold stocks are up over 10%. Not bad for one night’s sweat.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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25 Responses to DisUnited Kingdom

  1. dougman wrote, “you are a believer in relinquishing your sovereignty to a foreign power”

    Nope. I am a believer that smaller countries should band together for greater strength and convenience and efficiency, just like the USA and Canada were formed. A federal government can be a mess but it doesn’t have to be and it’s much better to have one big military than a bunch of smaller ones when it comes to confronting Russian aggression or murdering bastards. It’s not about losing sovereignty but changing/evolving sovereignty.

  2. dougman says:

    See, this is what the UK avoided.

    “Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

    If you are against BREXIT, then you are a believer in relinquishing your sovereignty to a foreign power. This is why the U.S. colonies did with England, but it took a war to win our independence.

  3. Ivan wrote, “considering that your country kept its Japanese citizens in concentration camps four years after WWII, you don’t have a right to judge the actions of any other country”.

    That’s a sin of our fathers. USA is run by folks who think dropping a 500 pound bomb on a family’s home is justified because some bad guy may be in the living room. Very few Canadians would accept that notion. USA bombed Canadians in Afghanistan for want of proper care. My father was bombed at Falaise shortly after D-day by over-zealous USAians. If they do that to allies what will they do to innocent civilians? The official policy is to do everything possible to avoid “collateral damage” but a huge number of deaths inspired considerably the insurgency in Afghanistan. I know bad guys don’t play be “the rules” but we are bad guys if we don’t. USA deliberately breaks the rules again and again: torture, Gitmo, bombing civilians, overthrowing Chile, Iran, … Why help Daesch’s recruiters?

  4. Ivan says:

    Well, Bob, considering that your country kept its Japanese citizens in concentration camps four years after WWII, you don’t have a right to judge the actions of any other country… especially when the freedom you enjoy comes on the back of that very large stockpile of weapons of mass destruction you are whining about.

    In short, live with it because we ain’t going anywhere.

  5. oiaohm wrote, “EU good idea on paper been very badly implemented. Now that England has voted out other countries are talking about doing the same.”

    Yes. History repeats again…

    My father was in England during WWII mostly training but during periods of extreme boredom did visit “the English”. He was struck how very different they were from Canadians. Canadians were very integrated with immigrants from all over Europe mostly but Canadians felt equal while Englishmen “knew their place”. Many had rarely visited other parts of the country from which they were born except for the war. British officers had almost zero connection with their troops resulting in great slaughter. Britain was fortunate the Channel existed. My ancestors were very wise to have left the smallness of England for the opportunity of Canada. England has chosen to remain small.

  6. dougman wrote, “please explain how Russia and the USA are bullies in the 21st century.”

    Russia: Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria, all of Eastern Europe, Chechnya, Canada’s arctic…

    USA: palestine 1948 onward, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan…

    I’ll grant that USA and others needed to do something in those regions but what they did was not it. The invasion of Afghanistan was quite successful and warranted but when the collateral damage mounted and the USA doubled down with drones they manufactured enemies instead of freeing the people. Meanwhile USA left thousands of troops hanging their behinds out over IED-filled roads without appropriate tech. This from the “most powerful nation on Earth” as we’ve often been told. They could have chosen tech to spot installation of IEDs and destroy them and the bombers in real time or tracking back but instead they chose bigger bombs. More collateral damage… Iraq should have been invaded during the first Gulf War. Instead USA allowed Saddam to kill more. Finally they used WMD, a totally bogus “fact”. Again, the invasion was remarkably successful but they set up a puppet regime and disbanded the military, all that held the country together, and left. We got what we got…

    I’ll grant that USA poses as a democracy and not a bully but effectively they are and the terrorists/murdering bastards of the world use them as a recruiting poster. Russia is more flagrant. They are trying to assert their “greatness” by killing people. That’s almost always wrong and a bad thing. The world would be much better off if both nations lived and let live and just let people do their things.

    I’m particularly miffed when USA widely accepts “manifest destiny”, “oldest democracy”, “America”, “leader of the free world”, “WMD”, etc. as buzz words permitting them to justify the bullying they do. USA is not even unique. Canada, Australia and a few other countries could just as well claim the uniqueness USA claims but without the bullying. USA is uniquely placed to have profited from bullying central America (United Fruit, etc.), slavery, oil (Iran, for instance had a shah imposed by USA in a coup. Hence the modern rivalry killing folks all over the Middle East and now the world.). Even little Cuba and Chile could not be allowed to determine their own futures in the shadow cast by USA. The bullying may be less overt these days but it’s still there. e.g. Trump and his ~40% popularity. Trump is all about bullying and he doesn’t hide it. A large proportion of USAians love a good bully as long as he is their bully. Replace USA with Russia and Trump with Putin and there are parallels.

  7. dougman says:

    “Tensions are rising across the EU, with Denmark, France, Italy, the Netherlands, and Sweden all facing demands for referendums over Europe.”

    “France, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland and Hungary could leave.”

    Appears to me that the EU is going down in flames.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683224/END-OF-THE-EU-Germany-France-Austria-Hungary-Finland-Netherlands-Europe-Brexit

  8. dougman says:

    Remember the threats, intimidation and dire warnings when Iceland arrested its banksters and politicians putting them where they belong, in jail?

    Are we not hearing the same play book over UK? I think we are.

    When the threats failed and Iceland’s economy took off they changed the game to silence. Don’t mention Iceland as it might give others the idea that freedom & liberty really works.

    It sure does in the U.S.

    🙂

  9. dougman says:

    China is a “bully”, but yet you espouse buying material via Alibaba.

    In your Zbigniew Brzezinski mind, please explain how Russia and the USA are bullies in the 21st century.

  10. kurkosdr says:

    as of now brexit has low favorability = as of now grexit has low favorability

  11. kurkosdr says:

    Greek mess was kinda predictable. Acropolis Now series watch it and you will notice it talking about major Greek currency devaluation long before they joined the EU. Historically the Greek system goes through a very odd cycle. Over spending too much importing too high of wages…. all in Greek system have been corrected over and over again by devaluing the currency give them a fixed currency and there complete system was going to explode. You could call greek currency devaluing the universal GST tax of the greek system.

    This is surprisingly correct and accurate.

    If I may add, Greeks (the generation before me) had been using real estate purchases to get around currency devaluation/inflation, so they are hardwired to want to own real estate, but now the government is using real estate as an easy tax target. If they tax cars and gasoline too much, people hand their license plates back. If they tax alcohol too much, they will consume less alcohol etc, but they can’t easily sell their real estate in this economy, so it gets treated as a sitting ducK target for taxation.

    Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised of the tide to grexit turns (as of now brexit has low favorability). There are people in Greece who have real estate but not liquid assets (euros)…

  12. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson the internal regional numbers inside England is a major worry if the vote is ignored.

    Is the interesting one 62.5 vs 37.5. Thinking Arun is heavy tourism using locally grown produce drop in value of pound is purely in their advantage.

    Stoke-on-Trent is another area that exports a lot leave 69.4% remain 30.6%. So you have some quite major splits. Historically this level of split can be a major problem.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3652901/Are-neighbours-Interactive-map-reveals-Eurosceptic-areas-Britain-ahead-EU-referendum.html
    Basically take that map overlap it with historic civil wars in Britain and you get a very interesting line up.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War#/media/File:English_civil_war_map_1642_to_1645.JPG
    The voting pattern aligns with the groups that ended kings being absolute rulers in England. So those who know history and have read the numbers knows England still has some quite major problems ahead. Yes do remember the scotts were for the king to remain in power. So fairly much the complete vote matches exactly what was left at the end of the english civil war including the percentage of population who did not give a rats.

    EU has been a problem child for a while.

    Greek mess was kinda predictable. Acropolis Now series watch it and you will notice it talking about major Greek currency devaluation long before they joined the EU. Historically the Greek system goes through a very odd cycle. Over spending too much importing too high of wages…. all in Greek system have been corrected over and over again by devaluing the currency give them a fixed currency and there complete system was going to explode. You could call greek currency devaluing the universal GST tax of the greek system.

    Then you have EU countries doing stuff to allow them to give subsidised items to farms and the like.

    EU good idea on paper been very badly implemented. Now that England has voted out other countries are talking about doing the same.

  13. dougman wrote,“Whats wrong with some independence?”

    Nothing but there is a difference between being independent and being alone. In this world there are bullies: Russia, USA, China, North Korea … to name a few. UK alone is weaker than being a part of a government ten times larger. This goes for defence, trade, standards, etc. Ask yourself why the world is not full of city-states, counties etc. all operating independently. It doesn’t scale that way. Larger cooperative groups are a necessary part of existence.

    Apart from the bullies there are practical matters. Every country cannot have trade agreements with every other country. That’s ~40K trade agreements. So, it’s natural and efficient to have groups of countries form and then make trade agreements between/among the groups. Otherwise, everyone bars everyone else’s goods or taxes them to the hilt. I remember those old days. It was a pain. It prevented a free flow of goods and services.

  14. dougman says:

    I think Britain hit a home-run. *shrug*

    Whats wrong with some independence?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XKJ2mcdVmQ

  15. DrLoser, lacking reading ability, turned, “In the current referendum, England largely voted to leave with a huge majority.” into “52-48% is not a huge majority”.

    Pay close attention:

    • 52-48% is for the entire UK, not England, but England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and a few other bits.
    • if you scroll down this page, you see England went 53.4% Leave and 46.6% Remain, a 2 million vote margin, and double what the whole of the UK did. That’s huge, a clear signal that England was jerking everyone else around. Not cool. So, the margin is not 4% but 6.8%.

    I clearly wrote, “England largely voted to leave with a huge majority”. See the “England” word. That’s not UK, but England, in case you missed it. [SARCASM] Scotland voted 38% Leave and 62% Remain, entirely different. Even JK Rowling agrees with me that this might trigger independence for Scotland. This is what you get when you replace leadership with a popularity contest/”reality” TV show. There is also a heat map on that page which shows many of the counties of England voted to Leave compared to most other members of UK.

  16. luvr says:

    “I think you’ve proved beyond all reasonable doubt that you’re not very good with numbers, Robert, but in this case you have surpassed yourself. 52% – 48% is not a huge majority.”

    Looks like another demonstration of your Iwo Jima Syndrome to me. I’m sure that a genius such as yourself doesn’t need me to explain why.

  17. Dr Loser says:

    In the current referendum, England largely voted to leave with a huge majority.

    I think you’ve proved beyond all reasonable doubt that you’re not very good with numbers, Robert, but in this case you have surpassed yourself. 52% – 48% is not a huge majority.

    Which is actually more interesting, in terms of UK politics, than the obverse. Not that you would have a clue about that.

  18. luvr wrote, “I do find it rather ironic that one of the huge shortcomings of the EU is the relentless austerity that does more harm than good, and that this country that wants to get out, has a government that is a big fan of precisely such policy.”

    Again, this an example of the Leaves running a better campaign rather than merits. The PM should resign for having let things get out of control. It’s like Lying Trump repeating lies often and the media dispersing them at little cost so that a mob of angry people follows over the cliff. Who will the angry people blame when they are in a deeper hole in a few years? Trump can’t even run a campaign let alone a country. The Leaves don’t seem to have a plan. Perhaps they seek to return to feudal times when Briton was truly insular. Forget greatness. They seek subsistence complete with famine and pestilence and uncivil war.

  19. Ivan says:

    weakening of NATO in the face of Russia and Daesch

    I think you need to apply another layer of tinfoil to your house if you think anything involving NATO depends on the UK remaining a part of the EU.

    What’s next, Bob, links to time cube, concave Earth theories, and bittcoins?

  20. luvr says:

    “the eu will need to cleanup its act for the uk to return.”

    I agree that the EU has a lot of cleaning up to do, but even so, I don’t actually see the UK return.
    I do find it rather ironic that one of the huge shortcomings of the EU is the relentless austerity that does more harm than good, and that this country that wants to get out, has a government that is a big fan of precisely such policy.

  21. “the british commonwealth has more membernations then the eu”

    That’s less relevant than losing trade agreement with much of the world. It’s a huge disruption with little upside. Is trade with the commonwealth magically going to increase to compensate? I’m buying from China, not UK, except for ARM. This morning I bought more new RAM (8gB modules of DDR3 SODIMMs) and storage (8gB SD cards) at very nice prices.

  22. AdmFubar says:

    the british commonwealth has more membernations then the eu. britan just put itself into a safer situation. the eu will need to cleanup its act for the uk to return.

  23. ram wrote, ” the abuses of the EU bureaucracies, and especially the European Patent Office, had much to do with why the ex-industrial heartlands of the UK voted to leave.”

    I doubt patents had much to do with it. I see it as FUD, almost like Trumpist “sky is falling” fear and loathing, being fed to the masses and it resonating with local situations. EU not working well is reason to get more involved to fix things, not to run away. What will the UK do without trade agreements with the world? OTOH, reports are that it will actually take 2 years to extricate from EU so there might be a smooth transition but immediately prices will rise especially for imported goods, even TOOS… Those folks who voted to leave will have regrets in their budgets. I can see a flight of capital. Who among the “Remainers” will want to stay? This is exactly the same polarization I see in USA where one large segment of the population is deliberately abusing another for short term gain. It’s a disaster not a new beginning.

  24. luvr says:

    I agree with your general idea about how the EU bureaucracies cause great dissatisfaction, not only in Great-Britain, but also in much of the rest of Europe.

    However, I don’t believe that the European Patent disOrganisation, specifically, will have had much impact, since hardly any European (including British) citizens even know about its very existence.

  25. ram says:

    Although the big corporate media doesn’t mention it, the abuses of the EU bureaucracies, and especially the European Patent Office, had much to do with why the ex-industrial heartlands of the UK voted to leave. They are better off without that layer of unelected officials interfering with their businesses.

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