LibreOffice 5.1

“LibreOffice has been downloaded 120 million times since the launch in January 2011. The office suite is deployed by large organizations in every continent, with the latest addition being the Italian Defense Staff with over 100,000 desktops.”
 
See The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 5.1
That’s a pretty good recommendation when the organization in charge of the defence of a nation opts to use the product.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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24 Responses to  LibreOffice 5.1

  1. oiaohm says:

    wizard emeritus I forgot that is a half implementation and buggered design.

    There is no validation when windows networks reach out to external NTP time servers.
    Windows does not create hardware clock drift correction values.

    Clock Discipline can you not see the mistake.
    The clock discipline subcomponent adjusts the time of the system clock to the most accurate time by either adjusting the clock rate or directly changing the time.
    This 4 step is wrong. Linux and BSD kernel applies a drift correction value to the hardware clock return values to reduce how often error happens again. This is in fact in NTP standard full implemented mandates it. So this error means what you are looking at is SNTP with extensions not NTP full.

    Also notice system clock is directly connected to providers inside windows instead of going through a drift correction. Again not to NTP recommendations. Yes this is an optional but not having it is asking for it.

    Comes clearer when you know NTP and down the page you see tree structure with signing.

    http://blog.mycroes.nl/2013/03/setting-up-ntp-signing-ntpsignd-with.html
    NT signing is not part of NTP protocol. Yes it a attempted security fix to prevent internal man in middle attacks but it does not prevent attacks from outside network like checking against https with openntp does. So external network Link Linux or BSD is the item to use because windows design is flawed.

    Now what is wrong with the tree structure. NTP is design around a circular structure for a reason. As the tree gets larger the time difference value at the bottom of the tree get larger. Circular ring of NTP time servers is called a pool. No where in Microsoft documentation does it tell you how to create proper pools. So again you are looking at SNTP with extensions not NTP full.

    NTP is designed around the idea that there is no such thing as a 100 percent reliable time source from single source. Basically average out multi unreliable time sources to make something close to reliable is how full NTP is designed to work.

    Basically Microsoft might claim what they have implemented is NTP but its not. Microsoft has used the NTP protocol and cut what they have thought useful from NTP and then not implemented anything else. Due to this out of the NTP defines SNTP is allowed to implement more NTP functionality if they like. But NTP full is meant to implement the lot.

    Correct description is SNTP with extensions is what Microsoft implements.

    Using openntp on Linux + samba to provide to windows allows you to create a proper NTP pool set up and implement NTP as designed not how Microsoft has mangled it.

    Pool design of NTP means you sync against multi time sources. So syncing against TLS and NTP servers is still being NTP design conforming using a pool solution. Yes Windows SNTP+ extensions implementation is designed around the idea of only syncing against 1 time source at a time so preventing proper pool implementation.

    As I said its better to have you Windows machine sync against a Linux/BSD provided time server. Why the Linux/BSD time server allows you todo it properly and there is no way to do it properly under Windows because the require functionality is not provided.

  2. wizard emeritus says:

    “Yet for some reason Microsoft has decided not to include in Windows OS clock system means of calculating clock drift and putting a correction value in”

    Fifi, did you check this document?

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc773013%28v=ws.10%29.aspx

    specifically this portion:

    “The Windows Time service uses the Network Time Protocol (NTP) to help synchronize time across a network. NTP is an Internet time protocol that includes the discipline algorithms necessary for synchronizing clocks. NTP is a more accurate time protocol than the Simple Network Time Protocol (SNTP) that is used in some versions of Windows; however W32Time continues to support SNTP to enable backward compatibility with computers running SNTP-based time services, such as Windows 2000.”

    Any response?

  3. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson Microsoft has never implemented anything higher than sntp. Yes sntp does connect to NTP servers but it does not using the clock drift or network lag calculations to get corrected time. Yes all the Windows client to Windows Server time sync issues come from these bugs.

  4. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy
    Having a valid and accurate time on a PC is very important for the security of its users, Robert, regardless of the OS. I will leave it to you to deduct why.
    Yet for some reason Microsoft has decided not to include in Windows OS clock system means of calculating clock drift and putting a correction value in

    http://linux.die.net/man/8/adjtimex This is the Linux kernel feature interface you can see you can set hardware drift correction values so reducing how fast you drift.

    Basically Deaf Spy has stated exactly what everyone knows Microsoft does not give a true rats about doing security correctly. Clock drift it one of the most common reasons for Windows machines failing to log on to windows networks.

    By the way sntp that Windows 10 demands is implemented fairly much by no one else implements as a server wonder why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol
    Now what time protocol does Windows 10 support by default.
    SNTP
    A less complex implementation of NTP, using the same protocol but without requiring the storage of state over extended periods of time, is known as the Simple Network Time Protocol (SNTP). It is used in some embedded devices and in applications where high accuracy timing is not required

    Like the description used by some embedded devices completely skips over used by everyone using Windows 10. But as it says anything needing high accuracy like authentication should not be using this. Gets better windows 2016 server yes the up coming one only has a NTP server that implements SNTP nothing more.

    Now lets read a nptd.conf server config file.
    http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-current/man5/ntpd.conf.5?query=ntpd.conf

    Interesting read right. To prevent man in middle issues ntpd support using https servers as constraint sources. So now attacker to major-ally mess with time and date in your system has to break more than 1.

    Yes this is the default time server supported by windows. Open to man in middle attacks like all NTP based solutions. No counter measures options like checking against HTTPS servers. No means to calibrate hardware clock drift figures.

    systemd-timesyncd is a sntp client on Linux and its also not recommend as time sync solution for your primary NTP server as it not exact enough to correct your server solution against drift.

    Clock drift control is in fact a reason to deploy a Linux or BSD server in a Windows network and then have everything sync against that at a lot more regularly interval than Linux box require. Can be as high as once per hour for windows where with Linux one per day is kinda over kill due to the adjtimex effects correcting the hardware clock defect value.

    Clock management is something windows is complete garbage at.

    Even the Linux world is trying to work out ways to get off of full NTP because it odd design and security flawed. NTP is still way more exact than SNTP and at least using the common openbsd ntp implementation you can limit man in middle effectiveness. You don’t not have any options with Windows Clients and Servers without installing third party software to mitigate against man in middle NTP time server attacks.

  5. Deaf Spy says:

    I’ve seen a few clocks that were too far off or drifted too rapidly to synch but most PCs have a crystal-controlled clock that’s reasonably stable even if offset.

    Having a valid and accurate time on a PC is very important for the security of its users, Robert, regardless of the OS. I will leave it to you to deduct why.

  6. dougman wrote, “Win10 does not use Network Time Protocol, earlier versions of Windows did the same thing. I mean, NTP can be used, but wow, one must edit the registry or *gasp* download a third-party application.”

    My recollection was that NTP was optional in XP but they didn’t make it clear what servers were contacted nor how often. Normally NTP has a protocol which allows a local clock to synch and the frequency of contact depends on the rate of drift. I’ve seen a few clocks that were too far off or drifted too rapidly to synch but most PCs have a crystal-controlled clock that’s reasonably stable even if offset. With XP, the state of the clock was the least thing about which I worried. Booting, malware, crashing or BSOD were top of the list of problems. Time was never on my list. Of course, if I had a LAN plugged with PCs, the chatter of each one phoning home could be a problem. That’s why I always set up a local time server if bandwidth to the Internet could be a problem. One of IT-pros in one school division told me that 30 Wintel PCs on a LAN was “the limit” because TOOS was so chatty. I think that’s one reason the EULA posed a limit, so M$ did not have to bear responsibility for any of that noise on the LAN. They could just offer to sell you a server licence to “solve the problem” they created.

  7. dougman says:

    Oh yah!… Ed Bott, the dude that wrote a bunch of books about Windows and Office, writes an article refuting Windows telemetry. Seriously, this guy has zero credibility as he makes a living off (gets paid to write M$ puff articles) the Microsoft hegemony. All I can say is, enjoy drinking the Microsoft Kool-Aid!

    Since we are on Windows 10, it would seem that time is not of the essence as Win10 does not use Network Time Protocol, earlier versions of Windows did the same thing. I mean, NTP can be used, but wow, one must edit the registry or *gasp* download a third-party application. W32Time, by default, only contacts servers once a week, so your time will be seriously skewed between corrections!

    Oh, and look here, Bott dumped M$ phone for IOS, then dumped that six-months later for Android. http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-i-dumped-my-iphone-and-went-android/

  8. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Of course the real reason that I removed 5.1 was this, whihc Robert Pogson chose not to quote.

    “LibreOffice 5.1 represents the bleeding edge in term of features for open source office suites, and as such is targeted at technology enthusiasts, early adopters and power users.

    For enterprise class deployments, TDF maintains the more mature 5.0.x branch (soon at 5.0.5). ”

    Translation: That version of Libre Office that we just announced with much fanfare, was actually not suitable for Production.

    You can’t make this stuff up.

  9. dougman says:

    I dare say, “It’s a tricky job, but I’m Mr Tricky. No job too tricky for me!” made me laugh.

  10. DrLoser says:

    A very peculiar way to treat a potential customer, if you ask me.

    “Do you have a portfolio of pictures describing your dissatisfaction with our product, Mrs Pootle? Ah, well. Without such a portfolio, you see, I am regrettably at a loss. I don’t have an HSE, you see, and trying to understand a description of your simple activities, couched only in words, causes my brain to implode.
    “However, if you have piccies, I might just be able to come around and help you delete your installation media. It’s a tricky job, but I’m Mr Tricky. No job too tricky for me!
    “That’ll be $120 per hour, in advance, please. Did I mention that I only accept payment in Bitcoin? Don’t worry your pretty little head about it. I’ll calculate the conversion rate for you myself.”

    How’s the “sabbatical” going, Dog-Brain?

  11. wizard emeritus says:

    pictures of what Dougie?

  12. dougman says:

    Re: I removed 5.1 from my windows 10 system after satisfying myself that it was the same old junk with a single click

    Pics/Vids or it didn’t happen.

  13. DrLoser says:

    Really DrLoser Libreoffice is getting a little to big to be poking a stick at.

    It was a harmless joke, mostly at the expense of the clearly very bureaucratic Italian armed forces. (I could make the same joke about our very own MoD, btw.)

    You’re not much of a one for a sense of humour, are you, Fifi? Nor does your eptitude in construction of metaphors impress me very much. What does this “stick-poking” effort actually mean?

    Surely it is far easier to poke a stick at a really big thing than it is, say, to poke a stick in the direction of Fifi’s brain, given the very steady hands and remarkably precise aim that would be required in that second case?

  14. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “LibreOffice is under 5-mins.”

    If you know the magic command line gibberish, eh Dougie

    I removed 5.1 from my windows 10 system after satisfying myself that it was the same old junk with a single click

  15. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Nobody cares what you post dougie.

  16. dougman says:

    Funny how M$ office takes 30-mins to reinstall itself.

    LibreOffice is under 5-mins.

    What does that tell you?

    sudo apt-get remove –purge libreoffice*
    sudo apt-get clean && sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo dpkg -i *.deb

    BING!

  17. Deaf Spy says:

    That’s news to me: I didn’t realise that writeln() was a LibreOffice feature.

    That’s new to me either: I didn’t realize I need to prove to anyone in this world that there is no single topic Fifi is even remotely competent in. Dear, attributing competency to Fifi can make Gods howl in hysteric laughter.

    See, Luvr, since Fifi has proven himself as a little, ignorant, fraudulent and incompetent lying fraud, I will keep reminding him once of his latest fiascos until his goes silent, or makes an apology.

    I really can’t believe I need to explain this.

  18. luvr says:

    Deaf Spy said, “Fifi, ignorant, illiterate, lice-ridden little fraud, did you perceive how writeln() works?”

    That’s news to me: I didn’t realise that writeln() was a LibreOffice feature. 🙂

  19. oiaohm wrote, “the EU you are now looking at 50%+ of EU government computer deployments office suite is Libreoffice in one form or another.”

    What’s happening in India probably makes the EU look like a Boy Scout camp. There, the whole government is preferring GNU/Linux and LibreOffice has the inside track. M$ is apparently ignoring GNU/Linux because its software is inherently integrated with the OS and a port is not possible without a huge rewrite. M$ is willing to live off its current slaves rather than riding a new wave of adoption, for now. Lock-in can be lock-out.

  20. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, ignorant, illiterate, lice-ridden little fraud, did you perceive how writeln() works?

  21. oiaohm says:

    https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/italian-military-switch-libreoffice-and-odf

    Reality 150 000 desktop is not even the largest operation in the EU to go Libreoffice. EU alone its confirm able that there is more than half million Libreoffice deployments just in governments using the completely open source version.

    https://www.collaboraoffice.com/solutions/collabora-govoffice/

    Add on govoffice that include UK governement and other governments over the EU you are now looking at 50%+ of EU government computer deployments office suite is Libreoffice in one form or another.

    And I have downloaded Libreoffice from Libreoffice mirrors exactly zero times in the last 10 years. Why Libreoffice is hosted on local mirrors run be research groups that don’t report downloads back to the main project. So you 5 times and not using it is most likely correcting some of the missing caused by us who download it by other means.

    Really DrLoser Libreoffice is getting a little to big to be poking a stick at.

    Currently there is no sign in EU Government migrations to Libreoffice are going to stop. Seams like Libreoffice going to take over the defacto standard in the EU. Yet some claim Libreoffice cannot do anything to claim market share.

    http://www.statisticbrain.com/computer-sales-statistics/

    Before someone makes a fool out of themselves and say EU is not important its the second largest market for Computer hardware holding 1/4 of all computers sold. USA is not far ahead at 1/3.

    Making the tank joke allows DrLoser to ignore what in fact is going on. If I was Microsoft I would not be particularly happy with the direction EU seams deterred to go in.

  22. DrLoser says:

    One hundred thousand desktops and a single operational tank with four reverse gears …
    … Yes, that sounds the sort of operation that would find LibreOffice ideally suited to purpose.

    I’ve downloaded the damned thing at least five times since January 2011, and I don’t even use it.

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