Closing Windows

“Many Taiwan-based ODMs hold the opinion that Windows 10 will not be able to boost large-scale PC replacements and upgrades because a large proportion of consumers mainly use PCs for Web surfing and document processing, and therefore do not need the advanced functions provided by Windows 10.

The ODMs pointed out that most consumers have shifted their budgets to purchase a new smartphone since they have no immediate need to buy a new PC, and Windows 10’s first-year free upgrade will make the matter worse.”
 
See Windows 10 unlikely to hike PC demand, say Taiwan ODMs
Advanced functions of “10”? What are those? New levels of slavery (your data + your money)? New levels of chaos (still more malware, intrusions and lags)? Of course consumers don’t need those. GNU/Linux works fine for them. Everyone wants to get off the Wintel treadmill when it’s a real treadmill, visible, noisy and costly before their eyes. We should be thankful M$ has come out of the shadows to compete in the real world where they lose badly to FLOSS and GNU/Linux. I recommend Debian GNU/Linux for a speedy exit.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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15 Responses to Closing Windows

  1. oiaohm says:

    https://plus.google.com/+OliverGrawert/posts/Z8q7fDQac2r
    For those hell bent on Ubuntu. Ubuntu is going Snappy what is basically a modern version of Debian chroot to run older/newer applications.

    Then gnome is going https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps

    The reality is 1 or all of these solutions to Linux dependency hell are going to win out. So some point in the future it will not be any major effort to older or newer applications than the distribution you are using. Currently it takes a little effort.

    So the reality is all this fuss people like kurkosdr make is nothing more than temporary crap. Would have been addressed sooner if people had not been spreading bullcrap about dependency hell being impossible to avoid under Linux.

    Why is solutions to the dependency hell appearing now. Valve made steam work on Linux proving past question there was a solution now people are demanding that Redhat, Ubuntu and other put up a solution. The steam runtime is basically 100 percent what was already in existing systems.

    kurkosdr so your arguments about packaging are dead arguments and should have been dead years ago.

    Your arguement is worse than the bogus claim Linux needs to reboot due to old library parts running in applications and services. https://github.com/liske/needrestart Yes its bogus any long term running Linux system should have needrestart installed to prevent applications using old parts being left unattended. Only reason Linux needs to rebooted all of it at once is a kernel replacement. Users do need to logout at times. Notice needrestart even audits into docker stuff. Debian has been ahead of the curve at avoiding reboots with it checkrestart tool for a long time. So the complaint should have been why do distributions fail to install with needrestart/checkrestart by default.

    Really over 90 percent of the points TMR guys raised if you do the proper research were complete bullcrap.

  2. oiaohm says:

    It does change everything kurkosdr. In a way you will not want to hear. The issue is the fault of people like you kurkosdr.

    The process is called self fulfilling proficiency.

    –That is upstream developer choice not to make distribution neutral binary.–

    This bit is key. Upstream developers hear it impossible to make distribution netural packages from idiots like you kurkosdr so they don’t. Idiots like you also don’t ask Upstream developers for distribution netural packages.

    Remember it possible to build applications for Windows that will only run on 1 particular version of Windows. Try installing muli copies of Internet explorer and have them work and see how far you get. Yes Microsoft has bundled applications exactly like Linux Distributions do that you can only have 1 copy at a time.

    The Linux kernel userspace ABI is stable. glibc as a build binary is backwards compatible. Libraries that interface with X11 are backwards compatible. Even the sound interface libraries have backwards compatibility support under Linux. Please note my example of Oinstall allows you to take a binary for current debian SID and apply and have it run on Centos 4 that is is almost 10 year old.

    The truth like it or not its partly your fault that Desktop is screwed up.

    –I ‘ll pass. I don’t care who is too blame.–

    Of course you want to pass because you never want to admit that for all the years your actions have been damaging the Linux Desktop.

    If you had understood that in packaging options there is no real differences between Linux and Windows if you look at the provided options. LSB packages and tar.gz solutions are free to ship with their own libraries. Oinstall packages are free to use newer libraries than what the base distribution provides. Oinstall maps to windows SXS.

    The only difference between Window sand Linux is the number of developers willing to make independent packages.

  3. kurkosdr says:

    OMG! You found a couple of cases that offer binary downloads and happen to support OS versions that are more than 2 years old. That changes everything!

  4. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr
    –Why do I have to go through the repository?–
    That is upstream developer choice not to make distribution neutral binary.
    –Where is the direct download from a website?–
    You mean like this
    https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/latest/linux-x86_64/en-GB/
    Like here they do exist. This is a tar.gz binary that works on a 4 year old distribution.

    –Doesn’t the over-reliance on repo system make devs vulnerable to laws of a single country (for example, in the case of Ubuntu, software patent laws)–
    No it does not you have been looking a Ubuntu. Older distrobutions like Debian and the like have like http://www.deb-multimedia.org

    Debian repo system in fact supports multi repositories. So the single country arguement is completely bogus.

    –(and even if there is a direct site download somewhere -rare case mind you-, it’s cutting edge non-LTS. Maybe latest LTS if you are lucky. Jump on that upgrade treadmill every 2 years!)–
    Sorry direct downloads like firefox normally support distributions for 5 years. So its a treadmill every 5 years not every 2.

    In fact people install the latest firefox binary .tar.gz on CentOS 4 that was released in 9 Marth 2005.

    Its part developer choice. Of course when steam first release it would not work on debian without overriding the default libc to be Ubuntu for steam.

    kurkosdr so you last 3 posts were pure bullshit.

  5. kurkosdr says:

    (and even if there is a direct site download somewhere -rare case mind you-, it’s cutting edge non-LTS. Maybe latest LTS if you are lucky. Jump on that upgrade treadmill every 2 years!)

  6. kurkosdr says:

    (and I know x264 has finally put a linux binary in their site, but still, direct website download for linux apps is hit-and-miss at best, where is x265?)

  7. kurkosdr says:

    Sorry 4 year old version of ubuntu was able to get x265 by debian support teams now.

    Huh? I ‘ve been downloading x264 and x265 for Windows since for ever. No ConfigureMakeInstall, no other problems at all.

    Why do I have to go through the repository? Where is the direct download from a website? Doesn’t the over-reliance on repo system make devs vulnerable to laws of a single country (for example, in the case of Ubuntu, software patent laws)

    FOSSies whine and whine about Adobe not porting photoshop to their distros, but for many FOSS programs that we Windows users can just download them from a site, Desktop Linux does not offer a website download.

    I ‘ll pass. I don’t care who is too blame.

  8. oiaohm says:

    http://0install.net/pkg2zero.html

    ssorbom only reason zeroinstall under Linux is useful is package to zero where you convert from debian or fedora or centos or you don’t have the diversity either.

    –Third, I don’t know of many projects using it directly, so it’s back to the same problem set that repo systems have–

    Not exactly the same. 0install allows you to use more than 1 repo source in fact more than 1 version at a time from a repo source. So you can use a binary from sid under debian and not risk triggering a train wreck of dependency hell in debian stable if you used oinstall todo it. Or you could be using a debian package on a centos/fedora system.

    0install to be useful does not require it to be used by providers directly. 0install is working sandboxing with sandboxing the applications with hard coded paths will be made work.

    Mind you systemd developers are proposing a different solution for in the future.
    http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html

    oinstall is the basically cross distribution version of nix.

    If kurkosdr like it nor not the dependancy issue under Linux will disappear one way or the other. Either systemd or oinstall will become the complete solution.

    There will be absolutely no need for distributions to change the way they package. The reality is old points against Linux are dieing. For cases like new VLC on old distribution oinstall is the best choice.

    Newer programs on old Windows only work because they bundle newer versions of the runtime.

    Loading multi copies of a runtime in fact consumes extra ram even under Windows. Linux you are meant to consider should you remain on a old version. By using oinstall you understand that you are going to take a ram hit. Anti-bloat is in fact important.

  9. dougman says:

    KUKU, disses Linux and explains it away that VLC has some minor issues, being the justification as to why no one should use it.

    WEAK

    Again KUKU justifies that Linux is ill-equipped to deal with being upgraded, and uses the example of someone applying a community provided software source for his reasoning. Which in my opinion is insane and is not “best practices” for security reasons. For an example, would you download Windows updates from some other unknown source? Highly unlikely, even if you could do so. Now don’t get me wrong there are some safe and reliable Personal Package Archives (‘PPAs’) that are usable, but as I use Linux Mint, all my software comes from them directly.

    Speaking of treadmills, Windows 7 is only good for five more years, why wont you upgrade to Windows 8? Better jump on Windows 10, or you won’t get it for free!

    I do not see M$ being entirely viable in short-order.

  10. ssorbom says:

    I just loaded 0install on my Windows VM and was kind of…underwhelmed. First, they could have used QT and eliminated a major difference in gui codebases between platforms.
    Second, the Windows version doesn’t seem to package much. What they do package seems to be a step above getting things from SourceForge though. Third, I don’t know of many projects using it directly, so it’s back to the same problem set that repo systems have…
    That said, they do have some neat ideas.

  11. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr basically Ubuntu went with add repository after repostitory to backport incompadible stuff. Debian went 0install as backport incompatible stuff.

    I wish 0install not the PPA solution had won on Ubuntu.

  12. oiaohm says:

    x265 was in fact patents.

    https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x265

    Sorry 4 year old version of ubuntu was able to get x265 by debian support teams now.

    deb-multimedia.org was required by debian users before this due to nice disputes. Also result in it not being able to be part of the Ubuntu PPA system. Its part of the reason why I run Debian.

    –No upgrade treadmill, just use your 4-year old OS version.–
    Price increased virus infection rate.

    https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/libav-provider/ffmpeg

    Debian and Ubuntu are at long last returning to standard ffmpeg.

    https://packages.debian.org/stretch/0install
    0install is part of debian official toolkits.

    http://0install.net/pkg2zero.html
    Yes pkg2zero is tested with Debian. As well as being include in official repository.

    kurkosdr most of your complaints are Ubuntu centric. Almost every application from debian works perfectly with 0install. If you want something from ubuntu then you can be in trouble.

    –Windows 7 runs all new desktop apps (save for the occassional ultra-hi-end game), no problem at all. Go to the site of the publisher/project, download, run.–
    Same applies to Linux by the way when software makers decide to provide properly bundled versions.

  13. ram says:

    I note that Shuttle’s latest offerings are advertising compatibility with Linux and no operating system is installed.

  14. kurkosdr says:

    Everyone wants to get off the Wintel treadmill when it’s a real treadmill, visible, noisy and costly before their eyes.

    I always find it cute that FOSSies complain about Windows being a “treadmill”, while Desktop Linux distros have problems like this:

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/03/new-features-vlc-2-2-ubuntu-ppa#comment-1883699725
    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/03/new-features-vlc-2-2-ubuntu-ppa#comment-1882701538

    Also, gotta love the gilberish (for the average user) like those in the link below (and the omnious warnings like “I would *not* try upgrading to 14.10/15.04…”):
    https://launchpad.net/~mc3man/+archive/ubuntu/trusty-media

    And of course my comment:
    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/03/new-features-vlc-2-2-ubuntu-ppa#comment-1883606144

    Upgrades to new versions (even non-LTS), messing with zero-install (which is not part of the distro’s official toolset). I remember once when I wanted to download x265 on some Ubuntu computer with a 4-year old version (not my computer obv), and I just resorted to downloading the exe and running it under wine. It didn’t exist in the repositories, no ppa’s, I couldn’t even ConfigureMakeInstall the thing. Meanwhile the windows users just download the exe. No upgrade treadmill, just use your 4-year old OS version.

    Windows 7 runs all new desktop apps (save for the occassional ultra-hi-end game), no problem at all. Go to the site of the publisher/project, download, run.

    ——-

    Also, I suggest FOSSies have a really good look at their “repository” model before they have the nerve to call other OSes for having “walled gardens”. And the fact the “repository” walled garden is been curated by graybeards instead of marketdroids doesn’t make it any better. In fact, I prefer the marketdroids, because they don’t shove proprietary software in weird repositories like “multiverse”, “restricted”, whatever.
    And yes, you can install stuff outside the repositories, but they won’t make it fun for you. Particularly during the practically mandatory upgrade.

  15. Mats Hagglund says:

    Every new Windows version campaign starts with world wide media hype and feeding fantasies for lambs. The pale truth remains: not many people actually really need Windows. It’s becoming more and more unnecessary and harmful Neanderthal of operation systems.

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