Battle – Optimism Versus Pessimism

“The desktop battle is now irrelevant. We tried. We lost. With the new battles, I feel there is much more at stake: our very freedom, and sense of ownership, is being taken away from us.”
 
See GNU/Linux: the desktop that never was
Battle is an intense thing. Stuff happens quickly amid boredom, terror, fear, doubt, anger, triumph, destruction…

Tony Mobily states outright that the battle for the desktop is lost and new battles lie on the horizon. I think he’s premature. There are more than a billion desktops out there and many run GNU/Linux. Retail shelves have been breached although you can’t find many here bearing GNU/Linux. Governments are promoting GNU/Linux as a sound choice with the added benefit of saving time and money.

No, the battle is not over and M$ has not won it. GNU/Linux made huge gains in 2015 and there’s no reason to believe those gains won’t continue. Users of IT need some way to access the network. The legacy PC remains a viable option with or without That Other OS. Android/Linux proved that. GNU/Linux continues to grow.

This is what winning in Uruguay looks like, students being freed from slavery to Wintel. It may be happening slower than we’d like but it’s happening.

Conversely, M$’s client division plunged, down 24% in Q1 over the same quarter last year. That’s losing. The biggest battles may be lost due to a single chink in the armour. That Other OS has dozens of weaknesses. GNU/Linux exploits them all.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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28 Responses to Battle – Optimism Versus Pessimism

  1. Mats Hagglund wrote, “Same hardware and Linux/FLOSS on it should be at least 100 dollars cheaper”.

    It’s not that simple. In free market, one should know the cost of software if there is a choice. We know software costs money to develop and to distribute. It’s hiding the price in a monopoly situation that is the crime. That harms everyone. We don’t gripe about the price of the various components of the hardware because there is competition and someone selling stuff at a lower price fixes that problem. Clearly, M$ and “partners” conspired to create and to maintain a monopoly but no one went after them, even my own government. The market is gradually correcting but you can measure the magnitude of the crime by the excess $billions stolen over decades.

    It amazes me that countries like China and Russia which clearly compete with USA globally still tolerate this giant example of USAian imperialism. Smaller countries like France, Germany, India and Brazil have been much more vigorous in fighting Wintel.

  2. Mats Hagglund says:

    I will never accept linked transaction as “normal” busines. It’s criminal action. People should know the real price of hardware and MS-software on it. Same hardware and Linux/FLOSS on it should be at least 100 dollars cheaper. If not some people are doing crimes.

  3. Mats Hagglund wrote, “I think most of laptops I have used have rather poor keyboard anyway”.

    That’s the problem with modern notebooks. “Thin is in” means that keyboards must be thin and flat which is not the way hands work. I have a Fujitsu keyboard designed in the 1990s with a steel frame thicker than most notebooks and with a curved array of keys that makes reaching the far keys much easier. Also, each key has a precise 2.3mm hysteresis which eliminates any tendency to pound keys. I had a student who could type 60wpm on a regular Dell keyboard (flat) but 80 wpm on mine. It really matters.

    The other thing, about volume, may still be true but basically GNU/Linux supports the same hardware as found on most PCs so it’s scarcely an issue any longer. The list of members of the Linux Foundation is huge. The manufacturers crank out many millions of units and they will slap on whatever stickers the customer requires with whatever OS or none. The cost of installing an OS is just a few minutes’ connectivity to a running hard drive, just a few dollars. Revenue from crapware is an issue but GNU/Linux has its share of that too, with even FireFox catering to some companies.

  4. Mats Hagglund says:

    Oh, i forgot the screen size was 17,3″ of that 750 € Tuxedo laptop.

  5. Mats Hagglund says:

    Here’s one Tuxedo machine with price of 750 €

    -(DDR3 SO-DIMM): 8 GB (1x 8192MB) 1866MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport
    – Display / Bildschirm: HD+ (1600 x 900) matt
    – (SATAIII): 500 GB HDD (HGST/WD / 7.200 rpm)
    – DVD
    Processor: Intel Core i5-4210M
    – Keyboard (background light)
    -WLAN AC3160 & Bluetooth
    Linux: Linux (Ubuntu, Mint, SUSE preinstalled)
    Garantee: 2 years

    ——-
    Surely ASUS could give same or even better device at same price with Windows 8.1 Pro pre-installed. We can buy them and install Linux on it. Truth remains. This machine will give some 100 dollars to Microsoft too. Tuxedo won’t pay not a single cent (direct). Instead you pay to Tuxedo and won’t get as good laptop than ASUS will give. Buying Tuxedo you might (perhaps) get better Linux compatibility than ASUS/Dell/HP are giving. But we can never be quite sure. What i have witnessed is terrible bad but cheap Windows 8.1 laptops people have bought. They have really been awful. It’s true – at least in Europe – that you have to pay more than 650 € to get relatively decent laptop. 350 € Windows laptops are total nonsense.

  6. Mats Hagglund says:

    RP: ” Prices are a bit steep though. Good for them if they can do business this way.”

    Linux machines like those of Tuxedo in this period can’t be much cheaper or cheaper at all than Windows-machines because Tuxedo don’t have mass production advantage. They have to pay more for components than other players in business. Anyway i would more likely give the share of Windows-license (about 100 €) to this small company if

    1) they can build reliable 99,99% Linux compatible laptops/desktops
    2) give fast help if there’s some issues later (e.g kernel, driver updates…) even if user is living far from Germany

    We all know that Linux and FLOSS is giving benefits in long run not immediately. I talk about money. I have done some google search and translations (my German language is rather poor) on German Linux forums. There are many who have been quite pleased with their products while some are claiming that with same money they would have got better machines from ASUS, Lenovo, etc. There are pros and cons with their machines. Most of people were pleased with display (screen) but disliked keyboard (not best ergonomics). But i think most of laptops i have used have rather poor keyboard anyway.

    In 2015 you hardly can get cheaper Linux laptop than Windows laptop because we have this pathetic Wintel-producer unholy alliance. Producers are under the thumb of Microsoft. They themselves know it. But partly they can blame themselves. None them have courage enough to finally bring consumer markets first 100% Linux-compatible laptop/pc with same components than those Windows-machines but 100 € cheaper ( no license fee). They are just cowards. Instead of producing Windows-computers they should just produce – computers.

  7. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr the strangest product I saw on sale at a Linux conference was a clear over sticker to protect Windows COA stickers. Even stranger large volumes of the people buying them even that they don’t run Windows on their company provided laptop.

    Linux users hate of Windows installed on laptops is a mixture between price and how much annoyance the COA sticker causes them. Really it would be nice if Microsoft mandated that COA stickers had to be inside the case.

  8. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr
    I never understood why Linuxeros whine and whine about the Microsoft Tax(tm)(c)(R) -which doesn’t really exist because the cost of the Windows bulk license is offset by antivirus trials and crapware kickbacks- and yet they will buy “Linux Laptops” which have a higher list price than a same-spec windows laptop.

    Really to Linux people cost is not just measured in dollars its also measured in time. So computers full of crap ware that they end up having to clean up for businesses in number of hours to clean them up is insane. Dell offers crapware free versions of their Windows computers for 100 dollars more. Digging out the crapware costs more than 100 dollars worth of work time.

    The Linux laptop price from HP and Dell is more than Windows with crapware and less than Windows without crapware on average.

    Next is buying a true Linux laptop from HP or Dell means you get tech support.

    Microsoft stores found the same issue when they wanted to stock crapware free computers. Turns out removing the crapware in store voids warranty because its no longer as provided. So you wish to sell crapware free computers that are dell or hp to customers you have to pay the higher price. Yes just like if you want to use Windows in a virtual machine you have to pay extra and why Linux users liked the right to return the installed Windows License to get the money back.

    Is it because you do not want to give a penny to evil Microsoft? Are you seriously buying laptops from fourth-tier OEMs just for that moral satisfaction?
    Mostly no.

    Is it because of that pesky sticker on the palmrest?
    You have never attended a Linux conference. If you want to see sticker covered laptops attend one. Yes stickers are not a problem.

    ZaReason cost is part looking cool. Tell me where else I can have the Windows key button logo replaced with a Tux or a Ubuntu logo on a laptop. Its not the sticker it is the keyboard. Really Linux Tux logo true does look good on the keyboard and its good fun for people who really don’t know computers looking at the keyboard wondering where the Windows key is.

    Linux people also buy keyboards with the Tux logo button as well. Tux is huge in the Linux world. Yes some usb keyboard makers offer Tux replacement keys for a few dollars so you can remove windows logo key and replace with a Tux version.

    The cheap version is stick a sticker over the key that end up effecting typing. Yes the Windows logo issue on laptop is not stickers. If it was just a sticker Linux user would just rip it off and replace if they could. There is 1 sticker that Linux Users end up in company envornments unable to rip off the COA sticker.

    COA stickers are a pain because they do get damaged. If you are in a company even if you are using a company laptop converted to Linux if the COA sticker gets damaged you still have to report it. Yes the COA sticker of Microsoft has been an on going problem. Guess where COA sticker are that is right on the underside of the machine right in the impact zone. Yes COA sticker damage becomes a pain in but to even windows users.

    The sticker on the palm rest is no problems. The COA sticker under the laptop is a problem. Yes buying a Linux laptop without a COA sticker to worry in a company environment is more friendly to the Linux user.

  9. kurkosdr says:

    Prices are a bit steep though. Good for them if they can do business this way.

    I never understood why Linuxeros whine and whine about the Microsoft Tax(tm)(c)(R) -which doesn’t really exist because the cost of the Windows bulk license is offset by antivirus trials and crapware kickbacks- and yet they will buy “Linux Laptops” which have a higher list price than a same-spec windows laptop. So? The tax makes laptops cheaper? And those “Linux laptops” are of course generic laptops, most of the times they do not even contain a WiFi chip with open-source drivers, some years ago they even contained winmodems.

    But…. Secure Boots! Oh… yeah, it has been bypassed using a shiv in grub. You can boot anything you want after grub. And the whining happened even back in the Vista/7 era, when you could nuke evil Microsoft completely out of the laptop, save for the Designed for Windows sticker on the palmrest.

    Is it because you do not want to give a penny to evil Microsoft? Are you seriously buying laptops from fourth-tier OEMs just for that moral satisfaction?

    Is it because of that pesky sticker on the palmrest?

    PS: And yes, I know about companies like ZaReason that assemble purpose-built laptops, but there you enter a completely new level of price-instanity (700 bucks for an i3 with 4GB ram and bottom-line everything else, wtf?).

  10. I’ve noticed that M$ is increasing user-licences (per-user CALs) for a lot of software. To increase prices when demand is declining is like a retreat of the outer perimeter for an outpost about to be overrun. It seems to be part of a move to push people to bulk contracts, per device licensing and cloudy services/subscriptions. People notice when prices increase for no increase in service. People notice when they are being herded into a chute for slaughter. Expect more migrations to GNU/Linux. M$ expects that. They’ve calculated that the losses will be “acceptable”.

    see Microsoft to hike by 13 percent its user client-access license prices as of August 1

  11. Mats Hagglund wrote, “Tuxedo-books seems to be one of those making reliable Linux-machines”.

    That’s a pretty good list of items they sell, right down to Debian/etc. tee-shirts. They have amazing variety of devices. Prices are a bit steep though. Good for them if they can do business this way.

  12. Mats Hagglund says:

    One choice is Europe is got decent Linux-preinstalled pc/laptops from Germany.
    Tuxedo-books seems to be one of those making reliable Linux-machines. Keyboard layouts: English (USA), English (UK), German, French, Belgium, Italian, Spanish, Danish, Swedish, Swiss. You can choose retailed for you.

    http://www.linux-onlineshop.de/index.php

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUGchVH9V5w

  13. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr you are being a idiot posting.
    Basically, if you are a home user, you don’t have to care about that.
    True only if you don’t copyright infringe movies or anything else to the level that you get searched. Because when they search a place for copyright offences they do search for everything including incorrect usage of Windows Licenses.

    Basically EULAs (licenses) are an elaborate racket intended to strip-away your rights granted under copyright (“you are not buying a copy, you are granted a license” nonsense).
    This is a idiot comment. Copyright law really grants you no real right to do anything. Copyright really does not even grant you the right to make any copies except under fair usage provisions. Using anything for any form of commercial gain or fair payment avoidance is not allowed. Majority of EULA is legal. Particular clauses don’t apply in particular countries not due to copyright but due to other laws. Anyone being able to install an OEM copy in Australia is part of Fair trading laws in Australia not copyright. Same issue hits regional coding so is the reason why Australians are allowed mod chips.

    Does a VM count as “same hardware”? Does the word “hardware” refer to “physical hardware” and “virtual hardware” or just “physical hardware”. It doesn’t matter what science says, what matters is what the courts say.
    That is the trap. VM in fact by rulings already done don’t count as the same hardware. But the upside is that a VM image I am using on 1 computer I can transfer to another computer without requiring the destination computer to have a license sticker on it. This is a case you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

    Cloud based services where they are moving images around for uptime if each machine had to be licensed for every possible virtual machine that could be on them it would be totally impractical.

    A VM install is classed as if you have installed another bit of software. Yes if you install your OEM Windows license on two hard-drives for the same computer and swap between them is also a Licensing breach. OEM copies allow you 1 installed and working copy max. OEM licenses are also binding.

    If you go right down to the nasty brass tacks without other laws like Fair trading you cannot even replace a dead OS containing hard-drive in a Windows OEM machine instead you are legally required to take it back to the system builder to have them replace the Hard-drive. Yes this is why a OEM does not have to give you reinstall media.

    Only reason why Windows OEM editions are practical is that the legal side of the license is not enforced that often.

    The fact Desktop Linux can’t make a dent in Desktop business computers despite this shows just how powerful the lock-in is.
    We don’t know the answer to this. There are countries where we are seeing 5 percent data in webstats. There is a possibility those countries Linux has made major gains in Desktop.

  14. kurkosdr says:

    I don’t think any court would interpret M$’s EULA that way. If the VM is running on the same hardware the OEM installed, M$’s OS in that VM is running on the same hardware. QED

    Does a VM count as “same hardware”? Does the word “hardware” refer to “physical hardware” and “virtual hardware” or just “physical hardware”. It doesn’t matter what science says, what matters is what the courts say.

    Basically EULAs (licenses) are an elaborate racket intended to strip-away your rights granted under copyright (“you are not buying a copy, you are granted a license” nonsense).

    Basically, if you are a home user, you don’t have to care about that. But if you are a business, it’s a problem. The fact Desktop Linux can’t make a dent in Desktop business computers despite this shows just how powerful the lock-in is.

  15. oiaohm says:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/197232/microsoft-is-misleading-consumers-with-windows-8.1-system-builder-licensing/

    I had also forgot about this as it does not apply in Australia due to our fair trading laws not allowing this kind of separating.

    Yes OEM license depending on Windows version can in fact be breach of license to install in most countries inside a Virtual Machine. Only reason you get away with it is lack of Microsoft enforcement.

  16. oiaohm says:

    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mssmallbiz/archive/2009/10/27/no-oem-microsoft-windows-licenses-cannot-be-transferred-to-another-pc.aspx

    Robert Pogson there is something special about a Virtual Machine Image. If I make a Virtual Machine image of a Windows OS place it on Removable storage and take it to another machine and use it the thing and it is legal if you have done stuff correctly.

    OEM editions don’t have transfer rights. So once its installed it bound to that configuration of hardware unless the system builder is doing a repair. Interesting enough Virtual machine displayed to OS hardware configuration counts.

    End users buying a computer are not the System builder so have no legal right to transfer OEM license directly installed to virtual machine image that can be portable.

    Now if anyone here happens to be from Germany there is a special exception in German law that allows OEM license product to be transferred by end users.

    Basically Robert for you and me to use a pre-installed OEM edition in a virtual machine is in fact breaking the License.

    This something key to remember when you install a OEM copy of Windows in a Virtual machine/Non Microsoft Hyper-visor you don’t put the COA sticker on the computer case because you transfer the software with the installation image.

    I don’t think any court would interpret M$’s EULA that way. If the VM is running on the same hardware the OEM installed, M$’s OS in that VM is running on the same hardware. QED

    There have been a few court cases over this. The virtual machine hardware displayed to the OS is not in fact identical to the hardware of the machine so to court of law are not the same machine but in fact a virtual machine and the real hardware are legally 2 machines.

    Next problem. Computer with OEM key in BIOS deleting the OS is not complete uninstall. So OEM key in BIOS and your copy of it in virtual machine image is in fact 2 installs existing at the same time. Yes a broken windows install next to a working windows install is also a breach. Next is the COA sticker. Virtual Machine instances COA sticker is not to be on the computer case due to Virtual Machine image portability so the COA sticker and all other parts of the OS in a Virtual Machine Image case travel with the Virtual Machine Image. Yes a Virtual Machine Image is not classed as having a Physical case so you legally have nothing to connect the COA on to.

    Also using OEM edition brings a few other technical head aches like if you have to reinstall you should use the same image file as you first installed into to keep commonality requirement of OEM edition. FULL editions are just more friendly in Virtual machine cases.

  17. oiaohm wrote, “the OEM license only the system builder can change the hardware binding of the license. So the OEM pre-installed is bound to the motherboard/case/non virtual machine. So a virtual install of that License is breach of license.”

    I don’t think any court would interpret M$’s EULA that way. If the VM is running on the same hardware the OEM installed, M$’s OS in that VM is running on the same hardware. QED

    The hard part is finding any case where I or anyone else actually wants to run TOOS. It’s just not necessary. One can argue that some particular app requires TOOS but that’s weak. Any particular app can also be replaced. Munich etc.

    The fact that oiaohm can make such an argument is all the proof I need to argue that M$’s EULA is a millstone around the neck of any user. I tried to figure out the EULA when I was dealing with XP back in the day. It was too vague yet convoluted to deal with the case of imaging OEM versions on our LAN let alone virtualization.

  18. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson the OEM license only the system builder can change the hardware binding of the license. So the OEM pre-installed is bound to the motherboard/case/non virtual machine. So a virtual install of that License is breach of license.

    If you get the OEM discs and install them yourself you are the System Builder so can alter the binding. Virtual installs don’t require placing sticker on case of computer because the Virtual install is classed very much like a computer in it own right that has no case to place a sticker on. Yes things get interesting legally when dealing with Virtual. If/When Virtual machines perform better there will become point for schools to prevent COA sticker damage running all Virtual would be the correct way forwards.

    So a Windows machine converted to Linux or a Linux machine that has never had Windows to be legal and run Windows in a virtual machine is go out and buy a Windows License it could be OEM or Full version. Full version transferring does not have the requirement to find the system builder as OEM does.

    Anyone like kurkosdr suggesting that the OEM pre-installed License is any practical use to people who will be using the machine to run Only Linux need to be stopped all it doing is tricking people into breaking the license.

    Only practical usage from a legal point of view to a OEM pre installed License of Windows is Duel boot. Note Duel instead of Dual is not a typo. Windows nuking other OS boot loaders make it a pain in ass.

    Properly licensed is the key words here. Microsoft Licenses are insanely not flexible.

  19. oiaohm quoth, “It is fine to use the OEM version as long as it is properly licensed. To be clear, a separate version of the software must be installed for both the “standard” and “virtual” installations”

    That only matters if you run the VM on TOOS. Run it on GNU/Linux and the VM installation will be properly licensed. M$ has contributed to Linux so that is possible. Otherwise, this is just another reason not to use TOOS.

  20. oiaohm says:

    http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/Pages/support-faq.aspx
    Q. Can I install OEM software on a virtual machine (VMware)?

    A. You can install OEM software in a virtual environment as long as you have a separate license for each instance of the software. It is fine to use the OEM version as long as it is properly licensed. To be clear, a separate version of the software must be installed for both the “standard” and “virtual” installations

    Robert Pogson its worse than many people dream. This is that you cannot reuse the preinstalled OEM version of Windows in a Virtual Machine. OEM versions are basically worthless unless you get them as never installed when you are going to use them in a virtual machine. Even then OEM restriction on hardware transferring can be a problem. Full version Windows you can transfer between Virtual Machines and Real Hardware without major legal issues.

    Windows Boxed edition is called Full version with Windows 8 or later. It has been called retail and many other names as well.

    kurkosdr with this
    If the price is the same as the corresponding machne with Windows pre-installed, isn’t a smarter choice to buy the one with Windows, so you can use the serial to run Windows inside a virtual machine, if some job requires it?
    Is breach of License. If you are planing to run Windows in a Virtual machine you have to buy a copy of either OEM not install or Full version/Retail/What ever Microsoft is calling the most expensive edition. This is how come so many companies get done after a Linux migration when audited.

    The Windows Pro or better with a virtual machine is to get file locking home/what is tag less with Windows 8+ you need network file locking when transferring files between virtual machine instance and local OS.

  21. oiaohm wrote, “to use Windows in a Virtual Machine it must be Pro”.

    I don’t think that was in the EULA for XP. Mostly, M$’s EULA is about restrictions on what one can do with the software. Running it was never an issue as long as only one instance was run or accessed from only one machine. These days, M$ will be glad if TOOS is run anywhere.

  22. oiaohm says:

    If the price is the same as the corresponding machne with Windows pre-installed, isn’t a smarter choice to buy the one with Windows, so you can use the serial to run Windows inside a virtual machine, if some job requires it?

    kurkosdr something important here to use Windows in a Virtual Machine it must be Pro. Next Windows OEM is hardware bound but Windows Boxed is Machine transferable. So a virtual machine copy of Windows made from a Windows Boxed edition can be used on many machines as long as only a single instance is active at any point in time. So the OEM edition is of limited practical usage.

    Also have to remember when Linux and Windows cost exactly the same the Windows install is normally malware/spyware… So you have to image over it anyhow. Secureboot issues can come up reinstalling windows as well.

    And before you say “MS doesn’t get a penny from me”, how do you know that MSI isn’t paying a per-system royalty, in exchange for lower royalties for their Windows machines?
    kurkosdr DOJ with the USA courts has ruled that paying a per-system royalty on hardware that does not contain the software is against the law of the USA. If Microsoft is doing this again Microsoft should be sold off at a fire sale. Microsoft was lucky to avoid being broken up the first time around.

    Of course Microsoft might have some patent claim so they are paid for Patent rights but this is a different game.

  23. luvr says:

    “If the price is the same as the corresponding machne with Windows pre-installed, isn’t a smarter choice to buy the one with Windows”

    I don’t get that. All that I would then want to do with Windows, is to remove it anyway. Why should I want to get it in the first place, then? I wouldn’t want to use the Windows licence that came with the computer to run Windows in a virtual machine, either. Would that even work? And even if it did, would it, then, be allowed as per the EULA? (Mind you, these are rhetorical questions. No need to answer, since I don’t care anyway.)

  24. kurkosdr wrote, “If the price is the same as the corresponding machne with Windows pre-installed, isn’t a smarter choice to buy the one with Windows, so you can use the serial to run Windows inside a virtual machine, if some job requires it?”

    That’s not smarter on a number of levels:

    1. being dependent on M$ is never smart,
    2. M$’s software costs more even if M$ gives away copies (malware, slowing down, zero-day exploits, shutting down on 15minutes notice whether you like it or not, the registry, Patch Tuesday, embrace-extend-extinguish, etc., and
    3. way too much complexity.

    For example, Munich, French Gendarmerie, and a bunch of others migrated away from M$. There’s just no good reason to have one copy of TOOS per PC. Just think of why we have operating systems instead of “stand alone” software. An operating system that makes itself “essential” is enslaving you. Is a slave master essential? No. We are free. Is a monopoly essential? Only in a few special cases where monopoly is the most efficient/practical means of transportation/distribution. TOOS isn’t that. Just check M$’s margins. You know there is a more efficient way of distributing/running software.

  25. Mats Hagglund wrote, “it’s time to follow the evolution”.

    We’re in that mode too, but I sure don’t want more of everything for same or greater power-consumption. Power’s cheap here but why waste it? I think I can get an AMD64 system with 4X the RAM, storage and double the throughput for about half the power-consumption. I really would like ARM, though, and in 2015 that should be a possibility. I was looking at ARMed servers. They are about what I want minus the 10gbits/s NICs and cluster-management hardware. Unfortunately if you have to ask the price you can’t afford them.
    “MP30-AR0 specifications:
     
    Processor – AppliedMicro X-Gene 1 processor with 8 ARMv8 cores up to 2.4GHz (TDP 45W)
    System Memory – 8 x DIMM slots, Single, dual rank UDIMM modules @ 1333/1600 NHz supported (up to 16GB)
    Storage – 4x SATA III 6Gb/s ports + 1x SD card slot
    Connectivity – 2x 10GbE SFP+ LAN ports (integrated), 2x GbE LAN ports (Marvell 88E1512), 1x 10/100/1000 management LAN”

  26. kurkosdr wrote, “before you say “MS doesn’t get a penny from me”, how do you know that MSI isn’t paying a per-system royalty”.

    They promised not to do that? See Final Judgment

    “Microsoft’s provision of Windows Operating System Products to Covered OEMs shall be pursuant to uniform license agreements with uniform terms and conditions. Without limiting the foregoing, Micorosft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set froth on a schedule, to be established and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs and all Covered OEMs, that provides for uniform royalties for Windows Operating System Product…”. So, no flat-rates, just royalties: “a duty paid by a manufacturer to the owner of a patent or a copyright at a certain rate for each article manufactured; or, a percentage paid to the owner of an article by one who hires the use of it.”

  27. kurkosdr says:

    If the price is the same as the corresponding machne with Windows pre-installed, isn’t a smarter choice to buy the one with Windows, so you can use the serial to run Windows inside a virtual machine, if some job requires it?

    I would understand if Ubuntu came pre-installed. But since you have to install Ubuntu yourself anyway, what’s the point? The trouble to disable Secure Boots? Pfft.

    And before you say “MS doesn’t get a penny from me”, how do you know that MSI isn’t paying a per-system royalty, in exchange for lower royalties for their Windows machines?

  28. Mats Hagglund says:

    I have used my old warhorse (desktop) now about 10 years but prime minister (my wife) has declared we need more space in one room. At the same time more HDD- multimedia ridicules my old pc. So it’s time to follow the evolution. Here’s one choice: laptop with no Windows on it.

    MSI GE70 APACHE 17,3″FHD 4210H/GTX850/8/1000/NO-OS

    -Intel Dual-Core i5 4210H
    – 2900 MHz
    – 8192 Mt Maksimi muisti 16384 Mt
    -free mem: 1
    -Hard drive 1000 Gt
    -Hard drive: rpm 7200 rpm
    Graphic: nVidia GeForce GTX850M, 2048 Mt GDDR5
    – 17.3 ”
    -type LED-, matt finish
    Resolution 1920×1080
    -Intel HM86 Express
    Battery 3 h (est…not much)
    -Optic drive DVD Super Multi (dobble layer) –
    – 10/100/1000 LAN
    Wireless: Wlan 802.11 ac, Bluetooth 4.0
    Size: 38.3 x 24.95 x 3.76 – 3.23 cm
    -Weight 2.7 kg
    -OS: Free DOS
    -Guaranty 24 months
    – Battery: 12 kk
    – 2 x USB3, 2 x USB2, RJ-45, VGA-out, HDMI, Line-out, Line-in

    http://static.laptech.fi/kuvapankki/7671_vakio.jpg

    Does anyone have experience MSI Apache laptops? Personally i’m not keen player but do appreciate decent multimedia laptop.

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