LibreOffice 4.4 Is Out And It’s Beautiful

“We now have a defect density that bumps along close to 0.00, though as Coverity introduces new checks, and new code gets committed that goes up and down a little; currently 0.02 so – 2 static checking warnings per 100,000 lines. That compares extremely well with the average Open Source project which has 65 warnings per 100,000 lines.” LO 4.4 is out.


See LibreOffice under the hood: progress to 4.4.0.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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170 Responses to LibreOffice 4.4 Is Out And It’s Beautiful

  1. oiaohm wrote, “how many unmaintained packages are packaged up for Debian. Lot of the complains around Debian and systemd relate to this very problem.”

    I think a lot more packages could be properly maintained if so much energy were not spent on systemd…

  2. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson the complete failure with xfce in that bug is not systemd alone.

    Consolekit project went end of life.
    http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/
    https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2

    Guess what consolekit2 that is the maintained version of Consolekit and supports logind interface so xfce would have worked perfectly.

    Robert Pogson majority of the problems with Debian sysvinit breaking with lots of stuff is too old of parts for modern graphical system. Worse is how many of these packages have modern versions.

    Horrible is the fact how many unmaintained packages are packaged up for Debian. Lot of the complains around Debian and systemd relate to this very problem.

  3. luvr wrote, “I just don’t feel like being a Debian systemd beta tester”.

    Amen. I did choose to test Debian Jessie long ago and when everything worked as I wanted, I switched a bunch of PCs. Then they forced systemd on us. The sad pall that fell over Debian since is just horrible. This is Debian, which holds, “We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free software community. We will place their interests first in our priorities.” It’s as if systemd was the perfect psychological warfare ploy designed to render Debian ineffective.

  4. luvr says:

    Eek! I have just noticed that the option to edit hyperlinks is gone from Calc?!?

    I have no idea when that happened; I remember using the feature with some LibreOffice 3 release that was running under Debian Wheezy. Cannot double-check for now, though, since I no longer have a Debian Wheezy installed. (I had been thinking about switching to Debian Testing, since the Wheezy packages are pretty ancient, but I think I’ll hold off looking at Debian again until they can work out the issues with, or without, systemd. Not that I necessarily care whether they want to use systemd or anything else, as long as the system works. I just don’t feel like being a Debian systemd beta tester.)

  5. oiaohm wrote, “DrLoser name one print shop that takes word documents. There is not one.”

    Just for fun, I checked one in Winnipeg:
    “Why is Microsoft Word not suitable for offset printing?
    Microsoft Word is not a desktop publishing program. It creates and displays colour only in RGB. RGB colour formats do not colour separate for offset printing.
    How do I prepare my text for the printer?
    Adobe PDF is the preferred text format for most printers. It works with virtually all image-setters, place-setters, and digital output devices. Most popular file formats, including MS Word and MS Publisher are easily converted to PDF. PDF is a “locked” format so there are no problems with text reflow when the files are opened on different computers. PDF can be read on any PDF reader, free at the Adobe website. “

    Chuckle. 😉 ROFL!

  6. oiaohm says:

    http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=pdf_word
    Robert Pogson really apparently idiots like DrLoser never have read any of these.

    DrLoser name one print shop that takes word documents. There is not one.

    PDF is your dominate format.

    PDF-Hybrid yes with a embedded ODF document is really the best of both worlds. All the editing features of a ODF document with the perfect printably of a PDF document. Why do I with MS Office have to guess how my end user will be wanting to work with the document so I send it correctly.

    Microsoft come on just support Hybrid even with OOXML inside.

    There is a lot of saving from PDF-Hyrbid over using doc or odt straight.

    Why that document I sign off on that I sent you that you have now sent on to the print shop that you did not need to edit comes out exactly how my system showed it. Not how your system made it. Using doc docx or odt and something about the computer might have altered the document.

    DrLoser there is a real problem. The problem is why print shops will not accept word documents and demand PDF files.

    Interoperability problems with places to large volumes of items printed is a fairly major government problem that never goes away.

  7. DrLoser wrote, “it very clearly refers to interoperability between internal programs … not to document interoperability. Let alone to PDF.”

    Aren’t you the one stating that they couldn’t use GNU/Linux and LibreOffice without having huge difficulties with interoperability? Isn’t the onus on you to prove they did when they publicly state they didn’t. Typically whenever there is an issue with interoperability an open standard like PDF is the way forward. They moved away from M$ to escape lock-in and high costs after all.

  8. DrLoser wrote, “Probably got missed in all that. But could you point me at the cite (or the post where you cite) this “book,” Robert?”

    Did I omit the link? It’s all over this blog: here, here, here, and here… Google finds it too: Linux Client Migration Cookbook, Version 2: A Practical Planning and Implementation Guide for Migrating to Desktop Linux

    UPDATE: No I didn’t miss the link. It’s in this comment which was made in reply to DrLoser. Sheesh… Why bother?

  9. DrLoser says:

    The book describes a cold and calculated method of migration. I prefer the cold turkey method, just change the clients over the weekend, but most businesses/organizations of any size prefer IBM’s method because it guarantees no surprises.

    Probably got missed in all that. But could you point me at the cite (or the post where you cite) this “book,” Robert? Difficult to compare notes against something I can’t find.

  10. DrLoser says:

    PDF does that just fine. “With access to thousands of open-source applications, the police force has found it easy to introduce new software. Chateau says: “The tools available with Linux respect open standards so they don’t seem to cause as many interoperability issues.”

    No offence, Robert, but if you’re going to cite something that proves your point about PDF, you could at least pick one that has the term “PDF” in it.

    Those “interoperability” issues? There’s no further explanation, so who knows whether or not to believe the claim. But, whether or not you believe it, it very clearly refers to interoperability between internal programs … not to document interoperability. Let alone to PDF.

    All you’ve got is a bunch of spurious Google numbers and a dubious puff-piece from somebody inside the system at the Gendarmerie. This isn’t just “not convincing.” It’s tosh. As is the following little gem from your cite:

    Previously, an IT administrator needed to be travelling all year to physically install new versions of anti-virus applications on the desktops in the Gendarmerie’s outposts – some of which are as far away as French Polynesia. A similar operation can now be completed within two weeks and does not require travelling.

    In what way is that a unique Linux thing? It isn’t. It wasn’t unique even with XP. And this:

    Agents can personalise their desktops to fit their needs. That means that they can access the same desktop environment no matter which workstation they log in from.

    Tell me, and I’m going to politely skate by the fact that you can’t, because you don’t suffer a Windows desktop of any kind inside the house … in what way is this different from a Windows roaming profile?

    It isn’t, is it?

    These people are selling themselves on a) a €2 million saving, which is plausible but I’d like to see an external audit, and b) confirmation bias.

    Whatever else they’re selling their solution on, it sure ain’t PDFs.

  11. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser if you have not noticed majority of documents these days are PDF. Why missing fonts differences in printer matrics… The list goes on results in doc and docx printing poorly.

    Absolute rubbish, Fifi. What a shame I have just forfeited my right to a cite. Convenient excuse, that.

  12. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser calling me fifi will only keep on having me not giving you cites.

    I can live with that dire consequence, Fifi.

    As a matter of fact, I can’t see how it would make the slightest difference. And didn’t you promise, in all seriousness, not to respond to me at all?

  13. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser if you have not noticed majority of documents these days are PDF. Why missing fonts differences in printer matrics… The list goes on results in doc and docx printing poorly. ODF files can suffer from missing font problems linked image issues and so on. Sending hybrid is highly recommended. Even if the embedded ODF in the PDF is screwed at least the person can see a read only copy perfectly formated.

    DrLoser PDF in fact supports being like a zip archive containing files that it cannot display in fact you can even stack other PDF inside.

    ODF countries show a higher growth rate in PDF documents than countries that are MS Office dominated. If Microsoft started supporting hybrid format with a OOXML inside the PDF I would expect to see Microsoft numbers to drop off as well.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Attach-a-File-to-a-PDF-Document
    Basically doing the above with MS office is too much time and effort worse you have to open up a independant program to extract the embedded docx or doc file. Libreoffice its a few simple clicks to create and general opening Libreoffice checks for a embedded copy.

    Basically PDF export in hybrid format is a feature I wish MS Office had. Make my life easy. There are so many documents I get that I only have to read and never edit.

  14. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser calling me fifi will only keep on having me not giving you cites.

    Oldfart all the recent major migrations follow the IBM book. Yes running trials and so on. Mind you the IBM model is for businesses with multi locations and many thousands of desktops.

    Oldfart I guess most of the businesses you are dealing with a single location. Single location you can have people retreat to the windows machines instead of reporting what is missing from the Linux machines so resulting in the Linux machines not getting the correct software.

    DrLoser only 1 link is a book with a isdn number. Its not the presentation. Please find the link on this page that is in fact a book.

    IBM has not really seen any reason to produce a new version. Its a waste of money when you are really not changing much.

  15. DrLoser wrote, of the French Gendarmerie, “They do have a need to communicate with external organisations”.

    PDF does that just fine. “With access to thousands of open-source applications, the police force has found it easy to introduce new software. Chateau says: “The tools available with Linux respect open standards so they don’t seem to cause as many interoperability issues.”

    ie. That other OS is part of the problem and FLOSS and GNU/Linux is part of the solution to the problem DrLoser raises. It’s just another strawman. Tedious…

  16. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser I see again attacking me on something that is fact in this case you in fact stupidly included one of the public examples of it. Really go way learn the topics before you attack me again.

    Good job on never answering me again, Fifi.

    Good job on not providing a cite, Fifi. (Hmmm … actually, just average. But I’ll grade you up. You need a cuddle.)

    Good job on being, well, your cuddly little self.

    Back to the lamp-post with you, Fifi.

  17. DrLoser says:

    Request for clarification, Robert. (Very probably my fault: certainly not yours. One gets buffeted by so much nonsense from oiaohm that it’s easy to confuse cites.)

    When you say “The book describes a cold and calculated method of migration,” are you referring to your own cite? Or one of oiaohmss? (Or indeed another one. As I say, it can be confusing.)

  18. DrLoser says:

    A search for “filetype:pdf” on Google finds 1.2billion hits. doc gets 200+million ODT finds 500K.

    I have to say, Robert, as an answer to the question, “What do the Gendarmerie use for “external reporting solutions?” …

    … this isn’t one.

    In France (site:.fr) the numbers are 92million, 891K, and 95K, for what it’s worth. So, PDF is 16 times more likely to be used in France instead of .doc than the global/Google. ODT is thousands of times more likely to be used instead of DOC in France compared to Google’s average.

    This is a wonderfully obtuse, esoteric, and frankly irrelevant point to make, Robert. But at least it’s a repeatable experiment, of sorts. Do I have the details right here? I google via “www.google.fr” and search for “filetype:X”, where X is pdf, odt, doc, docx and rtf. (A small memory lapse on the last two there, I assume.) I get:

    * PDF – 1,210,000,000
    * ODT – 13,100,000
    * DOC – 261,000,000
    * DOCX – 16,400,000
    * RTF – 27,600,000

    Seems like, of the two ISO standards (ODT and DOCX), Microsoft is edging ahead on this one. But never mind, each and every one of those PDF files was created via LibreOffice or OpenOffice or StarOffice.

    Naturally. How could it be otherwise?

    And it’s still a tom-fool point to make, for three reasons:
    1) There is absolutely no reason to suppose that the number of docs of whatever filetype on the Web has any relationship whatsoever to the number of docs of said filetype in any other environment. Say, attachments to emails.
    2) Google searches don’t work like this, Robert. I’ve told you, but you won’t listen. What is in the immediately accessible cache(s) does not necessarily correspond to a full web-crawl of the TLDs in question.
    3) Once again, you show little common sense when considering the possible day-to-day activities of the French Gendarmerie. And you’ve never lived in France (I have), so you’ve never met a single representative of the Fearsome Ones.

    The Gendarmerie are not your common-or-garden local Plod, Robert. They are a quasi-military organisation, as their name implies.

    They do have a need to communicate with external organisations (the famously free and open DGSE, DGSI, DRM, DPSD, BRGE, ABSSU, DCPH and CNCIS, not to mention Europol, the FBI, and sundry loose-lipped French Governmental Ministries such as the Ministry of Justice, the Ministry of Defence, and let’s not forget that Gendarmerie speciality, the Ministry of the Interior).

    They don’t, in general, feel the need to place these external communications on-line for the general public.

    In other words, what with having no understanding whatsoever of the particular organisation in question, Robert …

    … You were completely wasting your time with all of that googling, weren’t you?

  19. oldfart wrote, ” As to the assertion that the method having worked many times over, it would be interesting to see cites on this.”

    The book describes a cold and calculated method of migration. I prefer the cold turkey method, just change the clients over the weekend, but most businesses/organizations of any size prefer IBM’s method because it guarantees no surprises. In my experience any problems are easily solved. e.g. In my biggest rollout, the first driver I chose for X server video on the thin clients crapped out after a few minutes of usage… in a few minutes, I changed drivers and the thing has carried on for years now with no more problems. I also forgot to setup openLDAP until after users had been on the systems and began to change their passwords. That was easily fixed by setting up openLDAP and sending a message to users that if their current password didn’t work they should try the former… Two problems out of 100+ clients installed and 4 servers running… Perhaps that would be too high a problem-rate for a 10K client rollout, but in my experience all problems are fixable. That’s by one guy working late as necessary. Folks with real dedicated IT-staff should have fewer problems because they can concentrate on some smaller piece of the system instead of the whole thing.

    Munich’s migration was effectively planned and implemented after 2006 using IBM’s method. IBM was involved there. Almost all the big migrations we’ve heard of involve migrating the applications and when they are OK migrating the clients. The only problem is a few users with a few M$-only applications. That’s often fewer than 10% of clients. In my last school I had one PC where a teacher wanted to play DRMed DVDs out of 80 machines. The rollout was me rolling a cart around or carrying individual PCs re-imaged. I didn’t migrate any applications, just substitued FireFox for IE and OpenOffice for M$’s office suite.

  20. oldfart says:

    “Reality you don’t agree with the method the book describes. The issue the method has worked many times over.”

    Yes I do disagree with the book because of my own experiences with conversions over the years. As to the assertion that the method having worked many times over, it would be interesting to see cites on this. Have any that are newer than 2006 or soon after?

  21. oldfart says:

    “No this is the problem you think I will attempt to bullshit my way out a person who knows that have had the experience has no reason to justify self to a abusive idiot like you oldfart.”

    It goes both ways sir. I have experience too, and I am not going to debate someone who is as full of crap as you are who insists on calling someone an idiot at the drop of a hat. If you think that idiot at someone is a term of endearment, then you run up against someone who stands up to you and calls you out for what you are.

    Someone who fraudulently passes off googled information as real expertise and who will commit fraud to win a debating point.

    You have to earn respect to get respect Sir, and all you have done is earn scorn.

  22. oiaohm says:

    Gee I didnt know I lived in the EU…
    That is what videos on youtube and pdf on website are to solve oldfart. The world has moved on from the day that every presentation had to be given in every country.

    Reality you don’t agree with the method the book describes. The issue the method has worked many times over.

    oldfart You would claim that even if I wasted the time refreshing my memory that I was faking it so its pointless wasting my time refreshing my memory. It was pointless back then it is still pointless now. No point attempt to ask me todo something pointless because I simply will never do it..

    You have also just proven that even when given all the information you need to refresh your memory, you bullshit your way out.
    No this is the problem you think I will attempt to bullshit my way out a person who knows that have had the experience has no reason to justify self to a abusive idiot like you oldfart.

  23. oldfart says:

    “The way you wrote it makes out that new version of word is some how magically fixed its not. 2013 is in fact more broken than old when it comes to master documents.”

    What I wrote does no such thing. that is the way you chose to read it.

    Nice try.

  24. oldfart says:

    “oldfart reality here you have wasted forum space attacking me pointlessly. Now I am meant to prove myself to you.”

    And you have wasted space on multiple forms representing your half assed googling as expertise that you don’t have. You do not have to prove anything to me, because I know you for he fraud that you are. You have also just proven that even when given all the information you need to refresh your memory, you bullshit your way out.
    which tells me that there is a good chance that you can’t even fake it because the material is too hard for you to understand.

    “Go screw you self.”

    he he he…

    At least I have balls, you on the other hand sir do not.

  25. oldfart says:

    “Workshop Public entities reducing lock-in: The way forward – Brussels – July 2014. It sure sounds like they lack commitment. [SARCASM]”

    Gee I didnt know I lived in the EU…

    But beyond that their commitment is to growing profits, and in europe at least they see money to be made.

  26. oldfart says:

    “Oldfart did you just call it obsolete without even reading it?”

    Yes I did, at the time it was published. While It did offer what was for the time a viable path to such a conversion, I felt then as I do now that the whole process was impractical.

    Ands time seems to have borne out my views. The red book its self has never been updated, and without updates all of the specific proposed solutions are hopelessly out of date. Moreover it would appear that IBM themselves have given up on converting their staff. Our dedicated team has long since stopped”pushing” linux on the desktop. All of them use windows as their desktops except for one lone techie, an open source bigot, and he is more of the odd man out.

    So yes obsolete is for me a good word.

  27. oldfart wrote, “IBM Published many red Books, this one is 9 years old and is obsolete. IBM itself by and large got out of this game a while ago.”

    The concept is not obsolete. Some details are. IBM will give the customers what they want. Your obvious love of GNU/Linux desktops is probably driving the good folks away.
    “IBM Open Client for Linux
    Objectives

    • To build and deliver a fully supported, standards-based desktop Linux client, designed to increase the productivity of IBMers.
    • Provide applications and desktop services that can work on different operating systems – centrally provisioned and managed
    • Focus on Open Standards based solutions
    • Align with IBM product strategy
    • Lead the industry in integrated open client platforms
    • Increase employee productivity/satisfaction and decrease TCO

    Vision

    • Provide IBM internal population with the “right” client platform based on business role

    © 2014 IBM Corporation”

    That’s an IBM-presentation, “IBM’s practice for facilitating interoperability of Operating Systems” at Workshop Public entities reducing lock-in: The way forward – Brussels – July 2014. It sure sounds like they lack commitment. [SARCASM]

  28. oiaohm says:

    oldfart “The larger documents that I handed were all built using the master document/sub-document structure for compiling large documents, and yes I am aware that this technique had its issues in older version of word, so dont bother telling me.”

    You next comment is incorrect. You have a error by admission.
    Do you see office 2013 mentioned? Nope. You will also note the use of past tense. This is because the last time that I dealt with master documents was in consulting for someone who didn’t know what to do with what she had inherited.
    Were do you mention that you have only ever handled master documents on older versions of word and that its still broken in modern. The way you wrote it makes out that new version of word is some how magically fixed its not. 2013 is in fact more broken than old when it comes to master documents.

    There are still people who are pushing 2013 into compatibility mode to make master document then complaining when the break.

  29. oiaohm says:

    oldfart reality here you have wasted forum space attacking me pointlessly. Now I am meant to prove myself to you. Go screw you self.

    Reality you have just called a book obsolete that is referenced in every current migration. Reality you are out of touch.

  30. oldfart says:

    “Note that you talked about doing master documents in MS Office 2013. They are deprecated feature.”

    Lets take a look at what I said:

    “The larger documents that I handed were all built using the master document/sub-document structure for compiling large documents, and yes I am aware that this technique had its issues in older version of word, so dont bother telling me.”

    Do you see office 2013 mentioned? Nope. You will also note the use of past tense. This is because the last time that I dealt with master documents was in consulting for someone who didn’t know what to do with what she had inherited.

  31. oiaohm says:

    oldfart funny enough even that the book is 9 years old the assessment tasks have not changed a single bit.

    Also get it and check out how many of the recommend tools other than version still exist today. For a 9 year old document is massively compatible with current day Linux versions.

    Oldfart did you just call it obsolete without even reading it?

  32. oldfart says:

    “oldfart The errors I made were in fact common for people who had used IBM SAN Volume Controller. No that is just you reading between the lines and making stuff up to match your bull shit.”

    What mistakes, you gave no recognizable details that would even indicate that you knew what you are talking about. As far as “errors” being “common” That is bullshit pure and simple.

    But since you claim that you need a memory refresher I’ll give you a head start.

    www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/STPVGU/com.ibm.storage.svc.console.640.doc/mlt_relatedinfo_224agr.html

    is the pointer to the on line technical library on he SVC. Refresh your memory and prove that you are not just a bullshit artist who will say anything to win a point.

    Put up or shut up!

  33. oldfart says:

    “Read the RedBook on client migration.”

    IBM Published many red Books, this one is 9 years old and is obsolete. IBM itself by and large got out of this game a while ago. THe lack of commitment shows in their account team for us – Only one of them uses a linux desktop. IBM are more interested in making money supporting the standard commercial desktop offerings.

  34. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser
    But, seriously, it doesn’t have the resources to cover 195 languages, 95%.

    Microsoft Office does.

    Serous-ally if money could do it it would be done. Microsoft only covers 96 languages as of MS Office 2013 and that is also very patchy.

    Libroffice currently has part support for up to 110 yes that leaves 85 more to start. German is interesting did you install languagetool. I guess not.

    DrLoser there is a valid complaint that Libreoffice just after being installed is not normally completely functional until other third party parts are installed.

    There are dictoraries for Libreoffice that are not part of Libreoffice from German areas like Munich.

    DrLoser what nationality was you Deutsch teacher. Please note Swiss and Austrian are in fact in-depend dictionaries in LibreOffice. Yes there are lot of people who complain about Libreoffice German support that when you ask this question turns out the problem is they have screwed up because they had not been taught German Deutsch at all. There is a problem in MS Office with having Swiss and Austrian words in the German dictionary. Its like a UK spell checker accepting the word color.

  35. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser I see again attacking me on something that is fact in this case you in fact stupidly included one of the public examples of it. Really go way learn the topics before you attack me again.

  36. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson unfortunately we cannot ask google to tell us how many of the PDF files are hybrid vs how many are normal PDF. That tells a very different story in France.

  37. DrLoser wrote, “What do the Gendarmerie use for “external reporting solutions?” Let me guess … and no, it almost certainly isn’t a PDF.”

    A search for “filetype:pdf” on Google finds 1.2billion hits. doc gets 200+million ODT finds 500K.

    In France (site:.fr) the numbers are 92million, 891K, and 95K, for what it’s worth. So, PDF is 16 times more likely to be used in France instead of .doc than the global/Google. ODT is thousands of times more likely to be used instead of DOC in France compared to Google’s average.

  38. Anil wrote, “The packaging for this version was very, very bad. I’ve personally seen bleeding fingers in one case.
    Mr. Pogson’s observations, on this occasion, are accurate.”

    Thanks.

    Yes, the packaging was the strangest thing. Even a pill-bottle will have an arrow or picture etc. giving some clues. The thing was clear plastic, very translucent, making it’s parts almost invisible. We couldn’t see how it opened at all. I was on the verge of borrowing a hacksaw when I discovered the tape. I imagine that package cost many times what the CD cost.

  39. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser
    1) What do the Gendarmerie use for “external reporting solutions?” Let me guess … and no, it almost certainly isn’t a PDF.
    Close is PDF-Hybrid yes embedded odf document this still conforms to the PDF/A requirement or ODF.

    If you spend your time that and dig you will find that is official French government format.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption#France

    Fairly much France is a ODF country. The information there is getting a little old. Majority of French government is installing Libreoffice these days.

    France is a country where having MS Office is more of a hindrance than a help.

    DrLoser this is why you got to be not country centric. There are countries like France where MS Office is becoming a hindrance todo business. Government choice in software has a huge effect on what Office suit businesses should use.

    And the Plods fer sure have no need of Gimp or VLC.
    I can tell you the French police usage of both of those. VLC is for watching security camera footage so fairly straight forwards need. Gimp usage is a little bit more nasty. Custom filters to allow seeing through clothing for hidden weapons and contraband items. The French Police are not allowed to search you without ground but they can take a photo or still frame from video camera of you and process it to get grounds that you have a suspect item. And if you cloths cannot be see through the also have ground that you might have a suspect item.

    UK police don’t have the same restrictions as French police so don’t have the same equipment requirements. UK police can search you because you just happen to be in an area near a crime. So yes UK Police don’t need the means to see through clothing. From memory using see through clothing methods in the UK is a illegal without a warrant as well due to breach of privacy. French police get away with things that would be breach of privacy in other countries.

    The country vs country differences get quite insane. So each police force world wide requires a different mix of tools just so they can work effective inside their legal framework.

  40. DrLoser wrote, “Robert, because I have genuinely never heard of IBM making any such recommendation.”

    Read the RedBook on client migration.
    “An application is termed migratable when there is a direct way to migrate the application to a Linux client, either by using a Linux version of the application or using a Linux-based alternative.
    As described in more detail in 4.7, “Unmigratable applications” on page 99, applications that do not migrate well to Linux complicate the migration to a large extent. This also means that more migratable applications lead to easier migration.
    Before performing a migration and handling the unmigratables, some organizations try to move away from applications that do not migrate easily. The best way to do this is to move the application to a portal-based application. This not only facilitates moving to a Linux client, but then the application also is not a problem in any future migrations.

    Further,

  41. DrLoser wrote, “Where on earth do you get these insane fantasies from”.

    I used LibreOffice on servers. All anyone needed to connect was an Xserver. Largo does that too. They have one huge server for LO or OO with hundreds of simultaneous users. It’s quite an efficient way to operate: less total RAM, busier CPU, central storage, lightweight clients.

  42. DrLoser wrote, “LibreOffice has pretty lousy language support.”

    At least, LO supports a tonne of languages. India is adopting LibreOffice partly because it supports all the official languages of that huge/diverse country. BOSS GNU/Linux: “Currently BOSS GNU/Linux Desktop supports all the Official Indian Languages such as Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Malayalam, Marathi, Oriya, Punjabi, Sanskrit, Tamil, Telugu, Bodo, Urdu, Kashmiri, Maithili, Konkani, Manipuri which will enable the mainly non-English literate users in the country to be exposed to ICT and to use the computer more effectively.” With that other OS, even Hindi is an extra cost option, $25…

    See? FLOSS works for people.

  43. DrLoser wrote, ” The Plods understand. And the Plods fer sure have no need of Gimp or VLC.”

    Nonsense. Lots of criminal investigations involve replaying surveillance video or enhancing/modifying images.

  44. DrLoser says:

    Somewhat off-topic (although the Gendarmerie were apparently enticed into Linux by the prospective cost of 20,000 M$ licenses, and I’ve no problem with that, even though it doesn’t address the transparent ugliness of Libre 4.3):

    The police force at that point also switched to using the Open Document Format for its internal reporting solutions.
    In 2006 it installed web browser Mozilla Firefox and email client Mozilla Thunderbird on all PCs, followed in 2007 and 2008 by other free and open source desktop tools, including image manipulation software Gimp and multimedia application VLC.

    1) What do the Gendarmerie use for “external reporting solutions?” Let me guess … and no, it almost certainly isn’t a PDF.
    2) I have lived in France long enough to understand how the various levels of policing work. And yet … I still have no idea whatsoever how the bastards use “Gimp and VLC.”

    I’ve also helped deliver a Command and Control system to five separate county police systems in the UK. I was quite shocked at the amount of politics involved. Generally speaking, these five counties divided 50/50 between the operational police force (“Plods”) and the back-office staff. The back-office staff were completely clueless as regards requirements.

    Talk to the Plods. The Plods understand. And the Plods fer sure have no need of Gimp or VLC.

  45. DrLoser says:

    After the creation of the Foundation in 2012, all the positive feedback from private users, large and small businesses that switched to LibreOffice, the community around the free office suite was able to grow in 2013, it attracted new contributors and allowed worldwide access to a stable, professional, modern and, above all, free and open office suite, available in 110 languages…

    You really have to stop reading puff-pieces from marketroids, Robert. It’ll rot your brain. Slowly parboiled frogs come to mind as a comparison.

    The fact is, LibreOffice has pretty lousy language support. I’m not really proficient at German, but even I can tell that it lags M$ Office in that respect. As for the various official languages of India (we have been here before), it basically sucks.

    It does English fairly well. I have no knowledge of Hungarian, for example, but there are enough loonies who offer their free time to make that a plausible candidate.

    But, seriously, it doesn’t have the resources to cover 195 languages, 95%.

    Microsoft Office does.

    Not only that, but Microsoft Office has a compelling commercial justification to do so.

  46. DrLoser says:

    Places that have shifted to Libreoffice normally end up with Libreoffice running on Linux servers providing thin access to like ipads and other devices that would not be done with MS Office due to costs being too high.

    That isn’t what Munich did.

    That isn’t what the French Gendarmerie did.

    That isn’t even what Largo did.

    Where on earth do you get these insane fantasies from, oiaohm? Although I have to admit, the iPad bit was a nice (yet utterly ludicrous) touch. Quite right, too. If I were in charge of Corporate IT, the very first thing I would do is to swap out all my fully-functional $400 desktops and replace them with an iPad.

    Where do you get this preposterous crap from, oiaohm?

    Why do you keep repeating it?

    And do you seriously think that we, all of us, Robert, Dougie, ram, lpbear, everybody, doesn’t recognise it immediately as insane nonsense?

  47. DrLoser says:

    That’s what IBM, Munich and many others have recommended in order to minimize disruption.

    I’m going to be neutral on this one, Robert, because I have genuinely never heard of IBM making any such recommendation.

    Knowing how IBM works (basically by gouging corporate customers on very expensive consultancy), it certainly isn’t out of the question.

    I would (neutrally) be quite interested in any examples you have of IBM strategy in this area.

  48. DrLoser says:

    I find it interesting how many uninformed idiots keep on posting. One of Libreoffice funding solutions is selling certifications.

    People made a lot of money off Libreoffice when it was officially ugly.

    Your personal choice of interesting reading is, of course, up to you, Fifi. Should you wish to attach to that reading your personal definition of “uninformed idiocy” (which appears to mean nothing much, other than that the rest of the world has a regrettable tendency to disagree with you), that is also your privilege.

    In an effort to help you back into the commercial world of IT, of which you apparently have no knowledge at all (otherwise you’d describe some of your actual experiences), I shall point out the following:

    1) Just because some penny-ante “foundation” publishes a very long laundry list of “certifications” doesn’t actually mean that they are making any money out of them. Nor indeed does it mean that anybody in the commercial world should care.
    2) There are, I guess, similar certification options available with M$ Office. No, not that “Microsoft MVP” thing that you confessed you had signed up to off the back of a bubble-gum wrapper. Real certifications, that the IT industry recognises and upon whose basis will employ somebody.

    Thing is, MCSEs and the like tend to focus on an integrated Enterprise environment. Which is because M$ Office products work fairly seamlessly with the rest of the M$ ecosystem. (LibreOffice doesn’t really work seamlessly with any other part of the Linux ecosystem. How could it? The Linux ecosystem is a continually moving target.)

    What an MSCE doesn’t offer is a ridiculous promise like this:

    Certified Developer:

    Is able to hack LibreOffice code to develop new features or provide L3 Support to enterprise users.

    Why? Because no sane business in the entire world would hire somebody with a certification proclaiming that they are a hacker.

    Boy, did the Marketroids do a number on Linux with this one.

  49. oldfart wrote, “Do really think that an organization is going to change to linux to use a version of software that is available on windows?”

    I do. Adapting GNU/Linux-available applications on that other OS is a fairly standard way of easing the transition to GNU/Linux. That’s what IBM, Munich and many others have recommended in order to minimize disruption. That other OS is a problem for everyone. The question should really be, “Why would an organization not migrate to GNU/Linux once they had a set of applications running on that other OS that also ran on GNU/Linux?” The answer is “No reason at all. It pays to use GNU/Linux.” Munich, Extremadura, The French National Police all found that.

  50. oiaohm says:

    Personally I think some of the reason MS Office is used so much is that it played as a jack of all trades card with it should not be. If you need master documents and you need them to last using MS Office is out. Latex or something ODF based is in.

    Part of doing what Sir? Do really think that an organization is going to change to linux to use a version of software that is available on windows? And even if a change was decided on, changes to the working flow of a department or an individual would be made on a case by case basis.
    Places that have shifted to Libreoffice normally end up with Libreoffice running on Linux servers providing thin access to like ipads and other devices that would not be done with MS Office due to costs being too high.

    When the software is on Linux and Windows does open up a few extra options.

  51. oiaohm says:

    oldfart The errors I made were in fact common for people who had used IBM SAN Volume Controller. No that is just you reading between the lines and making stuff up to match your bull shit.

    Note that you talked about doing master documents in MS Office 2013. They are deprecated feature. Remember when you had master document templates in Microsoft office. They magically disappear MS Office 2010. Yes master documents have in fact been disappearing for more than 2 versions of MS Office. The deprecation notice came with the release of 2013.

    This is exactly the same kind of mistake I made with IBM SAN Volume Controller. Error in memory resulting in missing key critical facts.

    http://www.addbalance.com/word/masterdocuments.htm

    Yes the realities of MS Office Master Documents is they have been broken for years. Now only a person pretending to have experience or very limited experience with master documents would not know this. Or did you just have rose color glasses on forgetting when it went south oldfart.

    Master documents in word failing is not if but when.

    http://techwhirl-1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Microsoft-Word-masterdocs.pdf

    Yes some instructions that some have come up with to work around master document failures with Word. There is only 1 problem it only takes one operator to open the document and do the wrong thing that in any other document be harmless to destroy it.

    Latex and ODF based master-documents don’t suffer from the same issues.

    oldfart this is not the first or what I expect to be the last time you get your facts wrong yourself. Yet for some reason if I do the same thing is unforgivable. Come on idiot you cannot have it both ways.

  52. oldfart says:

    “Having a invalid point of view not back by facts. So are you a lier and a fraud as well.”

    You are a piece of work aren’t you sir. So you also have looked over my shoulder as I worked eh? I rarely have to prepare for any of our exchanges because unlike you I have done what I talked about , not googled it like you do.

    And as Robert Pogson knows, I am no fraud.

    You on the other hand have freely admitted to fraudulent misrepresenting you expertise on the subject of the IBM SAN Volume Controller in order to win a point.

    You are in no position to call anyone else anything sir.

  53. oldfart says:

    “oldfart part of knowing you need to do this is admitting where the major defects are. ”

    Part of doing what Sir? Do really think that an organization is going to change to linux to use a version of software that is available on windows? And even if a change was decided on, changes to the working flow of a department or an individual would be made on a case by case basis.

  54. Anil says:

    Dr. Loser

    It may be a little late for this observation, but in Office 2007, there was no File menu or tab. Instead, there was the “Office orb”, a round, translucent logo-like thing that gave access to the stuff that lived under the File menu (and in the “backstage” under the File tab in 2010 and later).

    The packaging for this version was very, very bad. I’ve personally seen bleeding fingers in one case.

    Mr. Pogson’s observations, on this occasion, are accurate.

  55. DrLoser wrote, “That’s the one thing that stopped StarOffice from taking over the world. “

    I don’t think anyone at TDF is trying to take over the world. They just want a good FLOSS office suite. They have achieved that pretty well by any measure. They still have work to do but all that’s preventing wider usage is more users trying it. That’s happening, governments and businesses all over as well as schools and individuals are finding it quite useful. The Little Woman, for instance, uses it all the time even creating her own documents/spreadsheets. She never did that when she used that other OS. It was too complex for her.

    LO is close on to 100million users now and TDF is aiming for the second 100 million in five years. They might get there sooner, IMHO.

    2011 “TDF calculates that there is a total of 25 million LibreOffice users worldwide, in line with the expectations and well on the way to the target of 200 million users worldwide before the end of the decade.”

    2012 “As of today, LibreOffice is being used by close to 60 million people. It is the standard free office suite on all major platforms, available in over 100 languages. Large cities and organizations are deploying it very successfully, more and more schools and universities are rolling it out, and there’s not a single month where it is not covered by major media around the globe – because we always have good news to share. “

    2013 “2013 was an extremely eventful, exciting and successful year for The Document Foundation. After the creation of the Foundation in 2012, all the positive feedback from private users, large and small businesses that switched to LibreOffice, the community around the free office suite was able to grow in 2013, it attracted new contributors and allowed worldwide access to a stable, professional, modern and, above all, free and open office suite, available in 110 languages, on all major platforms for more than a hundred million users.”

    2011 – 25
    2012 – 60
    2013 – 100
    Even if growth drops to 25% per annum, they make it handily:
    2014 – 125
    2015 – 156
    2016 – 195

    Why would they not? They are getting “positive feedback”, just like M$ used to claim when it locked out competitors. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Unlike M$, TDF is doing it on merit, price/performance, whereas M$ leveraged monopoly.

  56. oiaohm says:

    I find it interesting how many uninformed idiots keep on posting. One of Libreoffice funding solutions is selling certifications.
    http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/

    People made a lot of money off Libreoffice when it was officially ugly.

    Also its funny watching idiots who cannot do there own research. I gave only 1 point of course idiots are not smart enough to find that Libreoffice does have formally qualified UX designers.

    All UX design changes in Libreoffice are done for functionality reasons a head of looking nice. Its in fact written in the core rules of asking for a UX change.

    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Principles
    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines

    Libreoffice is strictly a tool design for functionality first Look second.

    Remember what is beautiful is subjective what is functional is testable.

    Be-sided the old staroffice dialogs are truly ugly.
    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.1#More_well_sized_dialogs
    Yes one of the rare pictures of old star office style next to new glade XML style.

    The new style is more userfriendly by measurable metrics. Yes strange staroffice only icons have also disappeared. Font sizes in dialogs corrected.

    So Libreoffice now looks like Libreoffice not StarOffice as of 4.4.o was the idea its going to be 4.4.1 because of the 2 they missed. If you can find the 2 in 800+ bits good luck to you.

    Install portable 3.6 and 4.4 and have a look everyone. The difference between 4.4 libreoffice and 3.6 is extreme to the point without the basic layout being the same you would think they were different programs. In fact the layouts of menus and toolbars have been changed a hell of a lot.

    3.6 is pure StarOffice style dialogs. 4.4 is almost pure Libreoffice dialogs. 4.0 is when the new better looking dialogs started appearing. Gradually changing the interface not to upset the users.

  57. DrLoser says:

    No I thought you were a sniveling child who couldn’t handle someone standing up to your bullshit.

    Not really fair, oldfart.

    Most snivelling little children grow out of it before the age of forty.

  58. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser I have worked out you attack method don’t bother posting any more questions to be I will never respond to you again.

    Do we have a deal on that, Fifi? I’m fine with it.

  59. DrLoser says:

    That is right in a few more cycles not a single dialog from StarOffice will be left.

    That’s the one thing that stopped StarOffice from taking over the world. The crappy dialog boxes!

    Free, free, free at last!

    Next time somebody asks me to recommend the undoubtedly Bootilicious LibreOffice 4.4, I will be able, with an honest heart, to tell them:

    At least it doesn’t have any of those ugly StarOffice Dialog Boxes any more! Well, almost.

    I can see myself making a lot of moolah on the support and services side here.

  60. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser I have worked out you attack method don’t bother posting any more questions to be I will never respond to you again.

  61. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser personally questioning is off topic you have just lost your rights to cites again.

  62. DrLoser says:

    Really have you never done this. Who is now claiming expertise they don’t have.

    Six months of on-the-job, not under-the-lamppost, experience is all I ask, Fifi.

    Not that difficult. You should be able to describe at least one job in vague terms over the last, say, fifteen years.

  63. DrLoser says:

    By the way I included a cite that covered the very item you questioned me about again. Just because the cite is not right next to the paragraph does not mean its not present.

    Pointless, uninformative, gibberish.

  64. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser where did I admit I am not a Latex expert. Again you are making things up.

    I stand corrected, Fifi. You have never once admitted that you are not a LaTeX expert.

    Good. We’ve got that cleared up.

    Any other areas that you lack any expertise in, and are prepared to admit, whilst we’re at it?

    Say, six months’ of actual IT experience?

  65. DrLoser says:

    Errrm… Won’t work… A Nobel Prize can be given to a maximum of three persons at a time.

    Fair enough, luvr. There’s always next year. I’m sure Robert is bashful enough to give credit where credit is due.
    Not so sure about the Walk-In Lady, though.

  66. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser where did I admit I am not a Latex expert. Again you are making things up. ODF to Latex exists. Just because I call something more friendly and something less friendly does not mean I cannot use it.

    I am old and forgetful. Tell us again: what was your most productive and instructive six months in an IT job?
    In fact off topic question. What personal attacks because you ass is being kicked again.

  67. luvr says:

    Dr. Loser said, “Before you, the Principal, the Walk-In Lady, the Maintenance Man, and the Anonymous Other Teacher walk up in Stockholm to accept your well-deserved Nobel Peace Prize, I think you need a challenge.”

    Errrm… Won’t work… A Nobel Prize can be given to a maximum of three persons at a time. 🙂

  68. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser stop accusing me of lieing just because you don’t stand.
    Get a copy of ooxml strict spec search for master documents. I have a nasty little surprise. It don’t exist. Only OOXML transitional documents support master document format.

    By the way I included a cite that covered the very item you questioned me about again. Just because the cite is not right next to the paragraph does not mean its not present.

  69. DrLoser says:

    Well, at least you’ve admitted that you’re not a LaTex expert, Fifi. Other than working for a hard-earned crust under the lamp-post, of course.

    I am old and forgetful. Tell us again: what was your most productive and instructive six months in an IT job?

    I mean, you’re pushing forty years old right now, Dolding. Presumably you managed to squeeze six months of an IT job in there somewhere.

    Or … maybe … not?

  70. oiaohm says:

    https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office
    Oldfart by the way Master-document support in 2013 is a backwards compatibility support feature only kept around for that. Microsoft has officially deprecated support for it. So if you are creating new Master Documents using 2013 Word you are disobeying the maker of the software usage instructions.

    Yes huge and multi-document files are officially supported by Libreoffice.

  71. DrLoser says:

    This is the thing where Libreoffice is good is where MS Office is poor and vice verser.

    You said what? Do I need to verse my verses, or the other way around?

    Reality using Libreoffice is still a lot more friendly that using Latex.

    Say what???

  72. DrLoser says:

    oldfart part of knowing you need to do this is admitting where the major defects are. Anywhere doing complex master documents a lot find out how broken MS Office is. Governments with huge legal documents best option is store those in ODF and install Libreoffice until Microsoft can support ODF properly so at long last fixing the issues.

    Gibberish. I’m tired of this, oiaohm. A cite please: otherwise we can assume that you are pulling this nonsense out of your fundament.

  73. oiaohm says:

    The larger documents that I handed were all built using the master document/sub-document structure for compiling large documents, and yes I am aware that this technique had its issues in older version of word, so dont bother telling me.
    Really have you never done this. Who is now claiming expertise they don’t have.

    Oldfart the 255 limit still applies to MS Office 2013 and Master documents are still broken in 2013.
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2013_release-word/have-the-mastersub-documents-issues-been-fixed-in/29b294db-1dfe-4cc4-98ec-285cd5e2a4f1
    Yes everyone who uses master documents under MS Office any version strikes strange errors. Including the worst where if you cross versions the document can completely self destruct because the program overwrites it with a damaged version.

    Reality you want to use master document style you are way better to play with Libreoffice. ODF design of Master Documents works at the spec level. Microsoft Master Documents are in fact with OOXML broken at the spec level.

    This is the thing where Libreoffice is good is where MS Office is poor and vice verser. Reality using Libreoffice is still a lot more friendly that using Latex.

    You 3 choices to attempt to make a large huge document. MS Office that will fail in strange and bad ways. Libreoffice and Latex options both work. LibreOffice being the most user-friendly that works.

    And such an obscure limit is certainly not going to be grounds to dump an entire windows software stack for a linux software stack, especially when all one has to do is download ind install the windows version of the program in question, install it and have ones cake and eat it.
    oldfart part of knowing you need to do this is admitting where the major defects are. Anywhere doing complex master documents a lot find out how broken MS Office is. Governments with huge legal documents best option is store those in ODF and install Libreoffice until Microsoft can support ODF properly so at long last fixing the issues.

    Oldfart do your research before opening your mouth again on this topic. You have done again exactly what you accused me of. Having a invalid point of view not back by facts. So are you a lier and a fraud as well.

    Please also note oldfart Libreoffice does not believe that 99.9999 percent of the time functional is good enough. In fact number of errors in MS Office says its no where close to 99.9999. Libreoffice is in fact closer to the 99.9999 percent value for avoiding operational failures.

  74. oiaohm says:

    https://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2015-01-29-under-the-hood-4-4.html
    The UI migration to a much improved, Glade compatible XML representation of VCL dialogs, complete with automatic layout is now almost complete

    DrLoser in fact the defect that even to Libreoffice people made 4.3 and before ugly takes bugger all to find. The simple fact you again commenting without a single bit of research. Instead you are taking the point that we have to justify.

    Yes 4.4.0 is almost the end of a complete GUI migration. Yes they found 2 they missed. The change after all the GUI migration is now windows rescale properly in almost every case without creating interfaces that are non functional.

    That is right in a few more cycles not a single dialog from StarOffice will be left.

    In fact these alterations are part of making Libreoffice touch compatible by being dynamically re-scalable. The arguement that a desktop application cannot work with touch is such a joke its not funny. Also no one has used the stylist on the likes of a samsung note. Its as small as a mouse pointer and location is tracked before contact with screen. So some android devices have real mouse equal.

  75. DrLoser says:

    Well, that’s not quite fair to the other Nobel Laureates, Robert.

    Before you, the Principal, the Walk-In Lady, the Maintenance Man, and the Anonymous Other Teacher walk up in Stockholm to accept your well-deserved Nobel Peace Prize, I think you need a challenge. A challenge that I suspect you are, every one of you, up for. A difficult yet dextrous proof that you know how ordinary everyday things work.

    No, not sticky tape. Every single one of you needs to prove that they can screw the top back on to a tube of toothpaste!

    That’s $200,000 each, Robert. $200,000 buys a decent tractor from Doubledays in Lincolnshire, as I have mentioned before. Goodness knows, but it will improve the life of the “maintenance guy” no end. All you need is a little bit of promotion.

    In which case, I’m yer man! This sticky tape and partial blindness and fat-fingering thing … we’re almost there!

    A simple explanation of how you completely failed to find File/Print on what was presumably an initial install of Microsoft Office 2007 … yes, that would help. It would, I think, swing the few votes on the Nobel Committee that you need.

    There’s nothing to lose here, Robert. Just tell us how you somehow missed the most blatantly obvious part of the Microsoft Office 2007 ribbon — although, to be fair, and according to your account, so did the Maintenance Guy, the Walk-In Lady, the Principal, and A Teacher To Be Named Later — and somehow managed to blame it on Microsoft.

    You are the Millionth Visitor to this Fantasy! Click Here! Win $200,000!

  76. DrLoser says:

    BTW, Robert. Why are you not boasting about the “defect density?”

  77. DrLoser says:

    I believe the Nobel Prize nomination process is in process even as we speak. May I nominate the four following Heroes of IT?

    1) The walk-in lady
    2) The maintenance guy
    3) Another teacher
    4) The principal

    And let’s not forget Robert himself.

    When times get tough, when times get rough, when only the brave dare to go where sticky tape forbids them to go, we rely on selfless, dedicated people like these to figure out how to swipe the mouse to the top left corner, click, and choose “Print.”

    I hereby nominate The Walk-In Lady, The Maintenance Guy, The Anonymous Teacher, The Principal, and of course the Celebrated Mr Robert Pogson for the Nobel Peace Prize!

    (Don’t laugh. It’s been awarded to Henry Kissinger, for God’s sake.)

  78. DrLoser says:

    Well, I’m just guessing.

    Has anybody at all out there heard of a case where, when you install Office 2007 on (say) Vista, the Office Ribbon doesn’t have “File” as a tab on the left-hand side?

    I doubt it. But if you’re lucky, Robert, oiaohm will be able to come up with some specious link or other.

    Otherwise, I am afraid, that experience of you and four other members of staff was undoubtedly unfortunate.

    But not remotely relevant. Unless you are short-sighted and have a visceral hate for sticky tape.

  79. luvr says:

    Dr. Loser: “I mean, what was the point of the OP headline in the first place?
    Simple question, repeated several times. No answer.”

    My guess: Click-bait. Especially for you. Feel better, now? 🙂

  80. DrLoser says:

    And before you answer that, Robert: the back-end to that URL is ChangeSkinsColorSchemeinMicrosoftOffice2_111F7/MSOfficeWord2007Options.jpg.

    Assuming that this is just a screen-shot provided by a third-party service (ie “Stealth Settings,” which sounds like an entirely reliable education service to me, where does the “change skins” bit come in?

    Because, I assure you. In every single example of the Office Ribbon that anybody whatsoever has ever seen, File/Print is exactly where you would expect File/Print to be.

    Namely, its … File/Print

  81. DrLoser says:

    The word, “file”, appeared nowhere on the screen. I found out later, one had to hover over the logo in the top left corner to get anything useful to appear.

    I checked the link out, Robert. What on earth is it? And what does Stealth Settings have to do with a vanilla Vista setup?

  82. DrLoser says:

    Wait, wait! I think I’ve finally discovered the ultimate source of oiaohm’s technical expertise!

    oiaohm can melt recalcitrant sticky tape with the microwave power of his own brain-waves!

    If only it were a useful skill.

  83. DrLoser wrote, “were completely incapable of spotting the keyword “File” on the ribbon and clicking on it?”

    The word, “file”, appeared nowhere on the screen. I found out later, one had to hover over the logo in the top left corner to get anything useful to appear. By that time we had finished the document on OpenOffice.org with GNU/Linux and the rest is history. I don’t know anyone who likes the ribbon.

  84. DrLoser says:

    There was the walk-in lady, me, the maintenance guy, who also was given a Vista-PC by our employer, another teacher and the principal.

    You’d still have been infinitely better off with a twelve year old kid, Robert.

    What a shame that all the twelve year old kids were otherwise occupied with the useless and unproductive and completely non-educational task of cleaning fluff out of a borked PC with a Q-tip.

    With a little more imagination, you could have provided them with the following, stonkingly good recommendation on their resume:

    “At the age of 12, I provided my high school with Packaging Expertise on the Microsoft Products that were available at the time.

    “I was called in on an emergency basis, after the in-house IT team of five support engineers discovered a couple of technical difficulties that they were not trained to deal with.

    “My main technical strength is that I work well with others. Ideally, I ask questions and I listen to the many problems that the IT team have found. I do not find faults with individuals.

    “Rather, I rip the sticky tape off with my bare teeth, and then go hunting for Bigger Problems To Solve!

    “Luckily, in this case, my 20/20 vision enabled me to see a big ole tab labelled “File” which solved the next problem. I take personal pride in going above and beyond what it says on the support ticket.

    A shame, Robert. Such an enterprising teenager would now be in charge of Chromebook distribution throughout Manitoba, and no doubt you would have a lucrative retirement as his or her technical adviser.

    Sticky tape — it’s the downfall of all well-meaning, conscientious Educators!

  85. DrLoser says:

    Clearly, M$ would have gotten nowhere without getting OEMs to bundle software on PCs.

    So then Robert. Your conclusion is that the main function of OEMs between 1983 and 2014 was to be intermediaries between Microsoft’s ham-fisted tendency to wrap everything in oodles of invisible sticky tape, and a more enlightened approach to those of us with brittle fingernails and lousy eyesight?

    You could well be correct. Let’s agree that the OEMs weren’t just Coerced Partners in Enforced World Slavery! They also got that “sticky tape” thing right.

    It’s a small, yet important, advance in the general cause of Global Happiness.

    Now, as to that File/Print thing.

    Is that even possible?

    Do you seriously expect us to believe that you and four other random adults past the age of forty were completely incapable of spotting the keyword “File” on the ribbon and clicking on it?

    I mean, theoretically it’s possible. But it’s an incredibly demeaning admission, I would suggest.

  86. DrLoser says:

    Or perhaps he was pleasantly surprised that they could make LibreOffice even more beautiful than it already was? Nowhere (at least as far as I can tell) did he express any form of judgment about the sexiness, or lack thereof, of LibreOffice 4.3, did he?

    LibreOffice 4.4 Is Out And It’s Pleasantly Surprising That It Is Even More Beautiful Than Libre Office 4.3.

    I guess that would be an acceptable headline to the post; but it isn’t the one that Robert actually used.

    The implicit judgement is that Libre Office 4.4 is “beautiful” as compared to some other Office Suite. And, strangely (in the context of this discussion), Robert made no mention of a competing Office Suite, possibly for fear of being laughed out of town on the comparison.

    So, we’re left with Libre Office 4.4 and Libre Office 4.3. Presumably the latter is seriously deficient in all-round gorgeousness.

    Otherwise, why not stick to Libre Office 4.3? I mean, other than “beauty,” no other reasons to Upgrade To Beauty Which Would Shame Aphrodite have yet been advanced.

    I mean, what was the point of the OP headline in the first place?

    Simple question, repeated several times. No answer.

  87. DrLoser says:

    Yes, I do, but if I ever forget and need a reminder of a joke……..I will read some of your drivel. (snare drum roll, cymbal crash)

    Ah well, I tried. Jokes require a lot of thought, luvr. They require timing, concision, and relevancy. lpbear’s sixty four extra words demonstrated the lack of all three.

    Still, if you live in the Catskills in 1960 or so, I suppose rim-shots probably work as an alternative.

  88. lpbbear says:

    “You don’t quite comprehend how jokes work, do you, lpbear?”

    Yes, I do, but if I ever forget and need a reminder of a joke……..I will read some of your drivel. (snare drum roll, cymbal crash)

  89. DrLoser wrote, “Where did you dredge up the other four?”

    There was the walk-in lady, me, the maintenance guy, who also was given a Vista-PC by our employer, another teacher and the principal. The lady was a member of a committee writing a granting proposal and she had a draft that she wanted to finish. She had just returned from Winnipeg where she bought the PC and printer and packaged software. I helped her set it up. She arrived in the afternoon and was there for hours for something that should have been as simple as opening boxes and connecting stuff. The hardware was not a problem but the software and that damned packaging certainly were. We had trouble just getting Vista to start, installing the printer driver, the A-V, and the word-processor. Time is money/inconvenience/waste etc. I can understand why M$ would want “tamper-proof” packaging, but surely it should have been easy to open. It wasn’t. Even after we spotted the tape we had to get a knife to cut it because it was very tough stuff. Clearly, M$ would have gotten nowhere without getting OEMs to bundle software on PCs. I’ve met many users of XP who’ve told me they hated Vista, “7” and I presume, “8”. I think a large proportion of consumers won’t ever buy another PC with M$’s stuff again if they can help it.

  90. luvr says:

    Dr. Loser said, “It doesn’t seem particularly obtuse to infer that Robert had reservations about the sexiness of Libre 4.3.”

    Or perhaps he was pleasantly surprised that they could make LibreOffice even more beautiful than it already was? Nowhere (at least as far as I can tell) did he express any form of judgment about the sexiness, or lack thereof, of LibreOffice 4.3, did he?

    It may be a good idea to avoid jumping to conclusions like you do. That’s a practice that may come back to bite you some day. Then again, if that’s your idea of having fun, then just don’t mind me (as I’m sure you won’t, anyway).

  91. DrLoser says:

    “How many highly-skilled Linux enthusiasts does it take to screw in a lightbulb, anyway?”

    Answer? None…

    Followed by sixty four words of no particular consequence.

    You don’t quite comprehend how jokes work, do you, lpbear?

  92. DrLoser says:

    There were no words on the tape. It was very thin, tough and transparent. I eventually removed my glasses and saw it by viewing from a very close distance.

    That’s a relief, Robert. For a moment there, I thought you might have spot-welded your glasses to your head in a moment of irrational exuberance. Are you seriously suggesting that people should boycott Microsoft on account of the packaging?

    And once you’ve removed your (metaphorically) doom-tinted spectacles, you might notice that your File/Print argument bespeaks nothing but a wish to see problems that do not, in fact, exist.

    Five of you? Where did you dredge up the other four?

    This is genuinely a case where a twelve year old child, of average intelligence, could easily have beaten five grown adults and got the whole job done in that fabled “half an hour” which so eludes Dougie’s attention span.

  93. lpbbear says:

    “How many highly-skilled Linux enthusiasts does it take to screw in a lightbulb, anyway?”

    Answer? None. We leave that to the Windows droids. They’re so stupidly busy “fixing” Windows issues they can’t tell the difference between a computer and a light bulb anyway. We just tell them its part of the network.
    The Linux guys are too busy relaxing in their offices playing all the new Valve Steam games since the Linux systems they maintain rarely need any actual maintenance.

  94. oldfart says:

    “oldfart go back to the macro I don’t care about it. You think I backed down just to get away from the macro. It was that I believed you were a pointless idiot who would not stop no matter what I said so I tried say somethings.”

    No I thought you were a sniveling child who couldn’t handle someone standing up to your bullshit. You have admitted to fraudulently representing expertise in a technology that you didn’t know, which, unfortunately for you, I DO have expertise in. When I restated that as far as I was concerned, you were finally admitting to be a fraud, you said nothing to contradict me – an admission of guilt to me. So either you are a liar who is attempting to take back an admission of guilt, or you are a child who could’nt stand being locked out of a conversation who made up what you convinced yourself was a bullshit excuse in order to get back into my conversations.

    At this point, your words on that subject stand and we are now on to the next kind of situation again. You are fortunate, however that this exchange has jogged my memory. The larger documents that I handed were all built using the master document/sub-document structure for compiling large documents, and yes I am aware that this technique had its issues in older version of word, so dont bother telling me.

    The ironic thing here is that you would have bolstered you case by including a cite like this.

    wordribbon.tips.net/T000734_Size_Limit_for_Documents.html

    You would have been on better ground on the point that you were attempting to make.

    Not that it would have made any difference. You see sir, the fact that one program can misbehave when pushed to its limits and that another has a different limit does not mean anything of 99.9999% of the time that program works without issue. And such an obscure limit is certainly not going to be grounds to dump an entire windows software stack for a linux software stack, especially when all one has to do is download ind install the windows version of the program in question, install it and have ones cake and eat it.

  95. DrLoser wrote, “Perhaps “File/Print” was also obscured by a piece of masking tape with the words “Peel Me!” in a font too small for your collective eyesight to see?”

    There were no words on the tape. It was very thin, tough and transparent. I eventually removed my glasses and saw it by viewing from a very close distance.

  96. oiaohm says:

    oldfart go back to the macro I don’t care about it. You think I backed down just to get away from the macro. It was that I believed you were a pointless idiot who would not stop no matter what I said so I tried say somethings.

    I hear by state that I only restated exactly what I had said years before to get you to stop using the macro. Hey if you would now believe what you called a lie years a go it was so good. So go back to the macro. You think you have something to hold over me forget it.

    I viewed the before and after PDF’s in Adobe Acrobat XI – A close inspection and comparison of pages between before and after showed no apparent image degradation. And this document is 95 pages of images!
    Was each image still independent. While that is the case you are fine. If MS Office 2013 has done its evil you will find what was 2 or more images in the source pdf merged into 1. The method of merge is not very good.

    Oldfart more complex PDF more likely bad things will happen as it can start pushing some of Words limits.

    Oldfart note my problem was not PDF to ooxml final but PDF in followed by word doing PDF out. Result not good. In fact with word 2013 it can get funny it can import a PDF then be unable to export it back to PDF as well.

    Oldfart note I did not say it could not work. Only that at times it could do nasty things to you. If word 2013 has gone stupid on PDF import or PDF export when you compare to adobe other tools you will see that its changed in ways it should not be. Pages with more than 1 image on is your clue if it screwed or not.

  97. DrLoser says:

    Since when is competence any part of use of an ubiquitous consumer-product?

    A certain, very basic, level of competence is the defining part of use of any product whatsoever, I think.

    We all of us were over 40 and could not see the damned tape sealing the package, twit.

    My apologies. I’m so used to you picking at the more obscure end of M$’s technical failings that it didn’t even occur to me that you were talking about something entirely different. I was barking up the wrong tree, wasn’t I?

    You weren’t just five technically incompetent people attempting a task, the performing of which is, as you say, ubiquitous. You were apparently five generically incompetent people attempting a task that was barely more of a challenge than screwing the cap back on to a tube of toothpaste.

    Luckily for you, Microsoft doesn’t make toothpaste, so your shiny whites are safe for now…

    There was a technical issue involved, though, which you unhelpfully failed to repeat in your response:

    The last time I helped a consumer install M$’s office suite, five of us struggled just to get the package open and none of us could find File/Print.

    Perhaps “File/Print” was also obscured by a piece of masking tape with the words “Peel Me!” in a font too small for your collective eyesight to see?

    Ah,, but I think you were referring to “the ribbon.” Luckily I have been on the Microsoft Troll Miracle Cure Course For Technical Ineptitude. I can therefore be of some assistance.

    There’s a tab at the left of the ribbon marked “File.” It is positioned where the traditional menu entry, “File,” is found. Click on it, and in reasonably large letters there is the option to “Print.”

    You’ll probably never need that information, but it’s good to know that it’s there.

    I wouldn’t describe any of that as “help,” Robert. More like standing haplessly by possibly making the odd unhelpful comment such as LOOK OUT!!! IT’S BEHIND YOU!. But I suppose “help” is relative.

    Unless it’s on the Office Ribbon, of course. Right hand side. A white question mark in a tiny blue circle. Hmmm, you may be on to something here — not easily discoverable with my poor eyesight.,

  98. oldfart says:

    “Maybe you were on vacation that decade. I was there.”

    So was I Robert Pogson, and not in a backwater like you.

  99. oldfart says:

    “oldfart I did not mention that the image quality was also dropped. I informed you to double check because you could be using older version of 2013. Also remember the bit about compatibility mode. Don’t do a PDF import in compatibility mode this is more likely to trigger a set of evils.”

    Lets go to the video tape:
    “Open that PDF in a proper PDF program and double check. I have had MS Word do this where it turns out in the real PDF the page had multi independent images but
    once they got inside word they were turned in huge single images..

    Yes kinda pissed me off when I got the PDF back. Yes I had made the PDF
    in Libreoffice hybrid and it came back major mangled because
    someone had the bright idea of editing in MS Word 2013. ”

    1) You will note that I see nothing from you talking about about compatibility mode.
    2) I viewed the before and after PDF’s in Adobe Acrobat XI – A close inspection and comparison of pages between before and after showed no apparent image degradation. And this document is 95 pages of images!
    3) My Version of office 2013 is up to date also. interestingly enough the only reference that I can find to PDF mangling in office 2013 is this in passing in this review of a Office 2013 just after GA

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2017550/review-microsoft-office-2013-features-new-look-prices.html

    funny how you just happened to be working with someone who “may” have been working with an “early” version of office 2013…

    Also:
    1) I said nothing about which version of word that I was using.
    2) Your cite “proving” office has problems was related to a now obsolete version of word.

    Shall I go back to my macro, or do you have something to admit to me sir?

  100. DrLoser says:

    You’re deliberately being obstinate, obviously, but nevertheless: Where do you get the idea that LibreOffice 4.3 was “disgustingly ugly” in the first place?

    Why, from the headline of the OP, luvr. I’ve checked again, and it doesn’t read:

    “Libre 4.4 is out, and it’s slightly prettier than Libre 4.3!”

    It doesn’t seem particularly obtuse to infer that Robert had reservations about the sexiness of Libre 4.3. (And I know the subtleties of language are beyond you, but my addition of “disgustingly” was an application of deliberate hyperbole for effect.)

    I even offered a sliding scale to help Robert explain to us all quite how deficient in pulchritude the earlier release was. No feedback on that one, as of yet.

    Oh, and one more thing. On oiaohm’s recommendation, I used Libre 4.3 for a while.

    It was disgustingly ugly.

  101. oldfart wrote, “The fact is that while I saw some breakage I never saw anything like the breakage that you keep harping on.”

    I’ve worked in places that pulled the plug to the Internet rather than have IT fall down.
    Maybe you were on vacation that decade. I was there.

    oldfart wrote, “Specifically Which version of office and windows are we talking about how long ago Robert Pogson?”

    The year was about 2007, I think. It was the first version with “The Ribbon”. None of us had ever seen it before. The OS was Vista on the consumer’s new PC. It was Vista-incapable, dog slow. The consumer bought the machine and printer to finish a report and for her personal computing. We finally gave up and used the lab’s machine as a thin client and used OpenOffice.org on GNU/Linux. It took ~15minutes to finish the article. It had taken hours to unbox her purchase (box, monitor, printer, AV, office suite). It would have taken much less time to install GNU/Linux and use the printer right away. It was about 4h just to get Vista set up with drivers, AV and the office suite. She had spent over $1K just to have an unsatisfactory experience and she was 450 miles by air away from the retailer… I suggested she decline the EULA and install GNU/Linux. She regretted not doing that. Really, on a new machine an installation including office suite and drivers would have been perhaps 30minutes and she would have been able to use the office suite without any “re-education”.

  102. oiaohm says:

    And, as the supplemental: why was everybody on this site trying to sell the disgustingly ugly LibreOffice 4.3 in the first place?
    DrLoser do you care if you hammer you use to drive in a nail looks perfect or functions perfectly.

    Libreoffice puts fixing up security issues before functionality issues and both of these before looking nice. Out of all the Office suites scanned by independent third parties Libreoffice has the lowest detectable flaw rate.

    Libreoffice interface has in fact changed a hell of a lot even that it does not appear so. Yes by major studies on users done by Libreoffice is seeing menus and other parts redesigned. The interesting point is how much of the Libreoffice documentation in fact no longer matches the program yet due to how intuitive the changes are no one notices.

  103. DrLoser, ever blaming the victims, wrote, “Did it occur to you, Robert, that all five of you were monumentally incompetent?”

    Since when is competence any part of use of an ubiquitous consumer-product? We all of us were over 40 and could not see the damned tape sealing the package, twit.

  104. oiaohm wrote, ” there is getting less and less of the old StarOffice code base left in Libreoffice.”

    Yes, they are even hunting down German comments and translating them. From ~100K+ they are down to ~10K left. Just about everything has been revised a few times since it was a German product: the GUI, the imports of M$’s stuff, ODF, PDF, SVG, openClipArt, AMD64 and a boat-load of features that are new. Anything that’s still from the original sources must be utilitarian stuff like formatting text etc. I think the original stuff was ~60MB and now they are at 200MB+. It’s not bloat. They’ve gone on lots of bloat-killing sweeps. It’s mostly new features and improvements in performance.

    I still remember StarOffice. It was OK but rather minimal compared to today. I think I have a CD with StarOffice 5.2 somewhere. OpenOffice.org 1.0 was scarcely different except non-Free stuff was stripped or replaced. I remember it crashed occasionally. By 2.0 it was quite solid and with 4.* there are only one or two things more I would like in it, styles for charts so I can change defaults to my liking for this site, and perhaps a simpler association of spreadsheets to databases. I find Base rather bizarre. It’s pretty sad when phpMySQL is easier to use than an office suite… I think TDF needs to rethink Base because databases are everywhere now compared to the old days. I think they’ve mostly decreased dependence on Java. They need to work on ease of use/setup.

  105. luvr says:

    Dr. Loser asked, “why was everybody on this site trying to sell the disgustingly ugly LibreOffice 4.3 in the first place?”

    You’re deliberately being obstinate, obviously, but nevertheless: Where do you get the idea that LibreOffice 4.3 was “disgustingly ugly” in the first place?

  106. DrLoser says:

    How many highly-skilled Linux enthusiasts does it take to screw in a lightbulb, anyway?

  107. DrLoser says:

    Everyone of Libreoffice/OpenOffice key developers are commercial developers.

    You don’t measure the “commercial dev quantity” on a software package, Fifi.

    You measure the package by what it does for you, and yes, on a cost/benefit analysis.

    Don’t ask me for the cost/benefit analysis on the “unusually beautiful” LibreOffice 4.4, Fifi: ask the Sheeple.

    The Sheeple say: meh.

  108. DrLoser says:

    I mean, let’s assume that sometime later this year (or the next—I don’t care), Windows 10 gets released, and you come here, bragging how Windows 10 is “the very best Windows release ever!” Must we then take it that all of the earlier Windows versions were absolute crap?

    That’s a very fair point, luvr. I had no intention of doing that. I have no intention of doing that. In fact, the very idea of doing that would make me feel slightly nauseous. I’m not going to do it.

    So, back to my original question:

    What is it about LibreOffice 4.4 that is demonstrably more “beautiful” than LibreOffice 4.3?

    And, as the supplemental: why was everybody on this site trying to sell the disgustingly ugly LibreOffice 4.3 in the first place?

  109. luvr says:

    Dr. Loser asked, “Tell us, how dramatically ugly was version 4.3?”

    What an unbelievably silly comment… Are you really trying to prove how brain-damaged you are? I mean, let’s assume that sometime later this year (or the next—I don’t care), Windows 10 gets released, and you come here, bragging how Windows 10 is “the very best Windows release ever!” Must we then take it that all of the earlier Windows versions were absolute crap?

    Come to think of it—We would be right. Perhaps you aren’t that terribly brain-damaged, after all. 🙂

  110. oiaohm says:

    But you see sir, you do not in the end know that the resources would have allocated for koffice. In fact had StarOffice not been open sourced, I would wager that without the huge head start that the freetards received by having existing code to “improve” Koffice would still be no better than it is today because it would be built from scratch.
    The release of OpenOffice cut the development team of Koffice in half in 3 months Oldfart. Where did those developers go OpenOffice. I know the personal that Koffice lost. Those personal are the ones that developed the current Libreoffice document import system. You would say high value developers.

    Everyone of Libreoffice/OpenOffice key developers are commercial developers.

    Really there is getting less and less of the old StarOffice code base left in Libreoffice. So it getting to the point that the functional Office suite would be equal to built from scratch.

    Wager that the head start was required is kinda wrong oldfart. Why the commercial developers working on Libreoffice/OpenOffice would have been working on a Office suite what ever was the most advanced Open Source Office suite is what they would have been working on. What is required is focused resources. The reason why Libreoffice compatibility with doc and ooxml has increased so much is better focus.

    I did a save as of the original 60Mb PDF back to disk as a PDF. THe resulting copy looked the same and was SMALLER at 20Mb.
    oldfart I did not mention that the image quality was also dropped. I informed you to double check because you could be using older version of 2013. Also remember the bit about compatibility mode. Don’t do a PDF import in compatibility mode this is more likely to trigger a set of evils.

  111. DrLoser says:

    Uh Dougie, I changed my nym in to OldFart in your honor and because I have been doing this a long time. Shall we stop with the farting Oldman crap eh?

    Why? In the absence of a box of Kleenex, and with a paucity of ten-second downloads, it keeps Dougie happy, oldfart. God knows, Dougie has no other evident value. He’s certainly never contributed anything of note to Mr Pogson’s site.

    I say we just let him slowly marinade in his own ignorance — the choice of expression is of no particular concern. After all, and although he may eventually become nothing but a worthless burden upon society …

    … you don’t really want to speed that process up, do you? Keep him happy. It’s a well-known fact that happy grinning fools do not get dementia.

    I mean, what’s the big deal here? It’s not like anybody else even listens to the fool.

  112. DrLoser says:

    That’s crap. The spreadsheet is an ancient concept. Astronomers/mathematicians used to have rooms full of mathematicians filling them in by hand. e.g. early mathematical tables.

    I’m going to put this as briefly and politely as I can, Robert.

    If you believe that Napier’s logarithms, Kepler’s tables, even Mayan calendars, even remotely resemble a Dan Bricklin spreadsheet, then:

    You’re completely and unmistakably and utterly full of I’m going to put this as briefly and politely as I can.

  113. DrLoser says:

    Question: How many highly-skilled Linux enthusiasts does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    Answer: You’ll have to wait. All five of them are currently recompiling the latest kernel.

  114. DrLoser says:

    Anyhow. About this “beauty” thing, which sadly relegates LibreOffice 4.3 to the status of “Last Year’s Spotty Girlfriend Who Put Out On Demand.” I don’t believe you’ve answered my question about the relative beauty of 4.3 and 4.4, Robert, despite it being the central point of your OP.

    As always, to the trusty source of the ages, Webster’s Completely Free You Don’t Have To Pay A Dime Roll Up Roll Up Free Bearded Woman With Every Cite 1911 Dictionary!

    Beau”ty (?), n.; pl. Beauties (#). [OE. beaute, beute, OF. beauté, biauté, Pr. beltat, F. beauté, fr. an assumed LL. bellitas, from L. bellus pretty. See Beau.]

    1. An assemblage or graces or properties pleasing to the eye, the ear, the intellect, the æsthetic faculty, or the moral sense.

    Beauty consists of a certain composition of color and figure, causing delight in the beholder. Locke.

    The production of beauty by a multiplicity of symmetrical parts uniting in a consistent whole. Wordsworth.

    The old definition of beauty, in the Roman school, was, multitude in unity;” and there is no doubt that such is the principle of beauty. Coleridge.

    2. A particular grace, feature, ornament, or excellence; anything beautiful; as, the beauties of nature.

    3. A beautiful person, esp. a beautiful woman.

    All the admired beauties of Verona. Shak.

    4. Prevailing style or taste; rage; fashion. [Obs.]

    She stained her hair yellow, which was then the beauty. Jer. Taylor.
    Beauty spot, a patch or spot placed on the face with intent to heighten beauty by contrast.

    It would appear, Robert, and according to our mutually agreed Supreme Authority on definitions, that you are wading into the realms of the Lyric Poets, no less.

    I encourage you, Robert. Wax Lyrical! A short Alexandrine would hardly do justice to this Magnificent and Beautiful Leap from Version 4.3 to Version 4.4!

    Failing that?

    A simple explanation of why 4.4 is beautiful would do.

  115. DrLoser says:

    The last time I helped a consumer install M$’s office suite, five of us struggled just to get the package open and none of us could find File/Print.

    Did it occur to you, Robert, that all five of you were monumentally incompetent?

    And I don’t say this lightly. This level of utter IT uselessness is something I expect from my boss at work, or possibly from a badly-educated and ham-fisted seven year old.

    Not from the Instructional Sage of the Frozen North.

    Did you try clicking on that little MSI dialog thing? It seems to work for 99.9% of the rest of the rather large proportion of the “sheeple” who are reluctantly exposed to Microsoft Office.

    I sense an epic story of unanticipated misfortune and thwarted desire behind this simple quote, Robert.

    Don’t hold back! There may be a Hollywood Movie in it for you!

  116. oldfart says:

    “I had no idea people needed waves of worms, feature-bloat, shifting file-formats and systems that slowed and broke repeatedly. ”

    You always harp on this like it was gospel for everyone, The fact is that while I saw some breakage I never saw anything like the breakage that you keep harping on. When systems slowed down we learned how to tune them. What I do remember quite clearly from my experience is that the amount of work “maintaining” Windows based system never exceeded the value to the user of the applications that they ran, nor was it so bad that someone who I worked with would just chuck the OS and all their
    applications and move to Linux.

    Of course this may have been because:

    1) a lot of the people who I helped were already running windows based FOSS along side the commercial software that they wished to run.
    2) I didn’t have my own agenda when I helped them fix any problems that they had.

    No amount of exaggeration on your part is going to change my experiences any more that I will change yours. But each time you make statements that are demonstrably misleading if not factually wrong, you make it increasingly likely that far from promoting your cause, you will be tagged as a crank to be humored instead of an expert to be listened to.

    “The last time I helped a consumer install M$’s office suite, five of us struggled just to get the package open and none of us could find File/Print. ”

    Specifically Which version of office and windows are we talking about how long ago Robert Pogson?

  117. oldfart wrote, “The reality is that people like myself found their products served our needs and licensed them, and as microsoft and its ISV’s came out with new versions that continued to meet our needs we continued to license them.”

    Gee. I had no idea people needed waves of worms, feature-bloat, shifting file-formats and systems that slowed and broke repeatedly. I thought that product was meeting M$’s needs, not other folks’. The last time I helped a consumer install M$’s office suite, five of us struggled just to get the package open and none of us could find File/Print. It didn’t meet our needs so we switched to OpenOffice.org and the consumer who paid a bunch for the privilege of being frustrated and having time wasted was very regretful.

  118. oldfart says:

    “Do you deny you queef?”

    Are we going to stop?

  119. dougman says:

    Do you deny you queef?

  120. oldfart says:

    “MMM…Farting Oldman ”

    Uh Dougie, I changed my nym in to OldFart in your honor and because I have been doing this a long time. Shall we stop with the farting Oldman crap eh?

  121. oldfart says:

    “There was no great leap, just monopoly. IBM allowed M$ to achieve a monopoly in software for the IBM-compatible PC and evil spread from that. There’s nothing wrong from earning a living creating software. There is somethings wrong when you force people to use it at any price. That’s what M$ and “partners” did.”

    No, that’s what you you”believe” they did. The reality is that people like myself found their products served our needs and licensed them, and as microsoft and its ISV’s came out with new versions that continued to meet our needs we continued to license them. If anyone “gave” microsoft their dominance, it was we its customers.

  122. oldfart says:

    “That’s crap. The spreadsheet is an ancient concept.”

    I stand corrected on the ancient history, but you neglect to mention what is said about visicalc:

    “Because of Dan Bricklin and Bob Frankston’s implementation of VisiCalc on the Apple II in 1979 and the IBM PC in 1981, the spreadsheet concept became widely known in the late 1970s and early 1980s. VisiCalc was the first spreadsheet that combined all essential features of modern spreadsheet applications (except for forward referencing/natural order recalculation), such as WYSIWYG interactive user interface, automatic recalculation, status and formula lines, range copying with relative and absolute references, formula building by selecting referenced cells. PC World magazine has called VisiCalc the first electronic spreadsheet.[13]”

    Just because a concept was in use in some quarters doesn’t make my point any less valid. And since it was older, does that mean that you would have denied Bricklin and Frankston their right to profit from their work, Eh Robert Pogson?

  123. oldfart says:

    “Farting Oldman, I don’t compose music, however if I did, I would NOT do it on Dog$hit.”

    Again, exactly the answer that I have come to expect from you sir. What a professional!

  124. dougman says:

    MMM…Farting Oldman is correct in that he stated “spreadsheet program”, but had he stated “spreadsheet”, then he would be wrong and Robert would be proper to correct him.

  125. oldfart wrote, “The world did not create the spreadsheet program, an individual Dan Bricklin did.”

    That’s crap. The spreadsheet is an ancient concept. Astronomers/mathematicians used to have rooms full of mathematicians filling them in by hand. e.g. early mathematical tables. Putting something centuries old into a stored-programme computers is not much of an innovation either. My first programming language was assembler followed by Fortran II on an IBM 1620. I worked on lots of tabular data in those days. 2D arrays were all over the place. As computers increased resources lots of folks worked on 3D and more. The modern spreadsheet application with a GUI just followed naturally from that history.

    There was no great leap, just monopoly. IBM allowed M$ to achieve a monopoly in software for the IBM-compatible PC and evil spread from that. There’s nothing wrong from earning a living creating software. There is somethings wrong when you force people to use it at any price. That’s what M$ and “partners” did.

  126. dougman says:

    Farting Oldman, I don’t compose music, however if I did, I would NOT do it on Dog$hit.

  127. dougman says:

    Re: Whats the matter Dougie, do something stupid in the past

    Actually, Windows 2000 and XP did stupid things in the past, so much so that I enabled a hosts of SMBs to go with straight Linux NAS’s.

  128. oldfart says:

    “See, Linux enables 20 hours of work to truncate to 15 minutes, and of which allows for more creativity”

    Gee Dougie I didn’t know you were creative. CAre to show me how I can be more productive composing my music on Linux with FOSS. You have the URL’s.

    Go to it!

  129. oldfart says:

    “Heavens dear, imagine the horror! A word processor can for nefarious purposes, but wow, don’t click that macro!”

    Don’t look Dougie, but there may be an exploit in the code on your linux driven box that has gone unnoticed for 20+ years just waiting to be exploited.

    Have a nice day!

  130. dougman says:

    See, Linux enables 20 hours of work to truncate to 15 minutes, and of which allows for more creativity.

    Once you get away from Win-Dohs, one does not suffer malware and reboots ad-infinitum.

    dsmith@dsmith-Inspiron-3847 ~ $ uptime
    11:26:16 up 46 days, 19:42, 1 user, load average: 0.12, 0.23, 0.24

    See no reboots, this machine just keeps churning and churning.

  131. oldfart says:

    “I don’t suffer the woes of Win-Dohs in using Linux.”

    Neither do I Dougie, nor anyone I know once they get past the newbie computer phase.

    Whats the matter Dougie, do something stupid in the past”

  132. dougman says:

    Heavens dear, imagine the horror! A word processor can for nefarious purposes, but wow, don’t click that macro!

    http://threatpost.com/microsoft-reports-massive-increase-in-macros-enabled-threats/110204

  133. oldfart says:

    “That’s simply untrue in the 21st Century. The world took decades to figure out how to bridge the Digital Divide to unite humanity with IT. The solution was FLOSS, not Wintel.”

    This is simply self serving bullshit of the highest order Robert Pogson. The world did not create the spreadsheet program, an individual Dan Bricklin did. And that individual licensed his product commercially at a fair price He was able to profit from it handsomely and that whether you like it or not is the way that the world works. Creative people do the work to make the leaps ahead and profit from it, either by forming their own corporation or by selling their ideas to a corporation who after compensating the original creator for their work, continues to reap the benefit. Thus microsoft bought Visio from its original creators and has parlayed it into a major portion of their office suits at a good profit

    Yes Robert Pogson the work is PROFIT as in M$!

    And that in spite of all of your losers whining about the “Digital Divide” is what reality is.

  134. oldfart says:

    “Open that PDF in a proper PDF program and double check. I have had MS Word do this where it turns out in the real PDF the page had multi independent images but once they got inside word they were turned in huge single images.. Yes kinda pissed me off when I got the PDF back. ”

    I did a save as of the original 60Mb PDF back to disk as a PDF. THe resulting copy looked the same and was SMALLER at 20Mb.

    Hmmmm…

    One of two thinks is going on here.

    either you are using an older version of office word.
    Or you are…how shall I put this… fraudulently representing your experience to win a point.

    I expect an explanation or a confession or we are going back to my macro.

  135. oldfart says:

    “Your scale is wrong. It should be:…”

    This from the guy who attempted to explain to the owner of this site the “reality” that the vast majority of desktop users wanted nothing to do with a Linux desktop.

    At least I tell it like it is…Hypocrite!

  136. oldfart says:

    “oldfart how old is koffice. Without openoffice.org those resources would have gone into Koffice. So even without openoffice release we still would not be paying for a Office suite. The reality is that Openoffice was having open source competition before it was released open source.”

    But you see sir, you do not in the end know that the resources would have allocated for koffice. In fact had StarOffice not been open sourced, I would wager that without the huge head start that the freetards received by having existing code to “improve” Koffice would still be no better than it is today because it would be built from scratch.

  137. lpbbear says:

    “Tell us, how dramatically ugly was version 4.3? On a scale of ten:

    1 = Elephant Man
    10 = Belt-Beaten Red Headed Illegitimate Stepson”

    Can’t you get anything right blowhard?

    Your scale is wrong. It should be:

    1 = OldFart
    10 = DrLoser

  138. oiaohm says:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/211489
    Did you not read the link Oldfart.

    I just had to open and review a 60Mb PDF file in word 2013. Word converted it to an editable document that we essentially a sequence of dense page images that I had zero problems scrolling through.
    2013 have expanded values on a lot of limits until you enabled compatibility mode. Yes compatibility mode is saved inside an OOXML document.

    No complex piece of software is ever bug free. But I have had more up front problems dealing with the exchange of complex document is Libreoffice than I have ever had with Microsoft word.
    Was that Libreoffice to Libreoffice or were you doing MS Office to LibreOffice and back. Remember Libreoffice does not have limits on many things.

    Crossing between 2003 and 2013 MS office brings out a lot of nasties.

    Word converted it to an editable document that we essentially a sequence of dense page images that I had zero problems scrolling through.
    Open that PDF in a proper PDF program and double check. I have had MS Word do this where it turns out in the real PDF the page had multi independent images but once they got inside word they were turned in huge single images.. Yes kinda pissed me off when I got the PDF back. Yes I had made the PDF in Libreoffice hybrid and it came back major mangled because someone had the bright idea of editing in MS Word 2013. Basically MS Word 2013 PDF importer covering up for MS Word 2013 weakness.

    oldfart how old is koffice. Without openoffice.org those resources would have gone into Koffice. So even without openoffice release we still would not be paying for a Office suite. The reality is that Openoffice was having open source competition before it was released open source.

  139. oldfart wrote, “computer software was not a necessity of life that one was “entitled” to”.

    That’s simply untrue in the 21st Century. The world took decades to figure out how to bridge the Digital Divide to unite humanity with IT. The solution was FLOSS, not Wintel.

    oldfart also wrote, “you are indeed fortunate that the pony tailed douche bag that ran Sun Microystems into the ground got the bright idea of open sourcing the commercial office suite that Sun purchased. Otherwise you would have to actually pay to license someone else’s work to do your word processing.

    That’s also untrue. I have LyX which works very well for me, and there’s nothing wrong with plain old text. GNU/Linux has lots of $free and free tools to manage information and even to make beautiful copy. I’ve used KWord, Scribus, Abiword and many other useful applications that were all very useful but I prefer LibreOffice for most things. I use GNUmeric for the graphing because graphs are easier to configure in GNUmeric, fewer clicks. When LibreOffice implements styles for charts, I may drop GNUmeric. It’s great to have choices. I don’t see that having only one choice is a better option. In an emergency, it may be better to have a single familiar choice in order to react faster but the task of producing a document via FLOSS applications LibreOffice or not is quite easy and side by side tests show there’s no disadvantage at all to using FLOSS. I’ve had folks not be able to tell the difference between OpenOffice.org and M$’s stuff…

    “Fortunate” is a good word to describe FLOSS but it’s not entirely valid. Sharing is a natural human activity and FLOSS is naturally shared.

    SUN actually acquired StarOffice to avoid having to use both SPARC workstations and Intel workstations to run their offices and the cost of the purchase one time freed them from that treadmill. You could argue that buying StarOffice would have been unnecessary if SUN had dropped SPARC/UNIX but they would still have saved a bundle eventually using StarOffice, in two refresh cycles instead of one. That’s one reason Munich went with FLOSS even though the transition was costly. An infinite sum of refreshes of Wintel is always more costly than an infinite sum of refreshes with FLOSS on small cheap computers.

  140. oldfart, probably being sarcastic, wrote, “I must be special, because I have handled files 3 times that size without trying.”

    That sounds like doing something wrong that a document should be several times 512MB in size. I mean, it can be done but should it? Who is ever going to read/print something like that? It sounds more like something that should have been done in parts or put into a document-management system/database in parts. There are many concepts in IT that don’t scale well. Documents are one. It’s better to be sure a page is concise and effective than to have millions of them in one document. One of the reasons we have file-systems and search-engines is to deal with such matters. It’s not something with which office suites should have to deal.

  141. oiaohm wrote, “If you have not just noticed with MS Office you were doing exactly the same thing.”

    Yes, some people love double standards. If folks don’t do things their way folks are derided. If folks try to do things their way, folks are declared incompetent. If folks can’t afford to do things their way, folks are declared cheap. Some people are just rude. To some extent it’s a USAian trait. Because the world props up the USAian economy and they can borrow $trillions they have a superiority complex even as they lag the world in healthcare (just saw CNN’s Inside Man fly to Thailand for medical procedures for half the price as in USA. Service was superior too.), Internet bandwidth, that other OS, STEM etc. Sometimes it’s good to be proud of heritage but no one should be proud of false pride. Folks who get good IT for ½ to â…“ the price using FLOSS and or ARM are not cheap, incompetent or wrong. They are wise/smart/economical.

  142. oldfart says:

    “Does oldfart object to people living and being free to breathe air and drink the rain? ”

    The last time I checked Robert Pogson, computer software was not a necessity of life that one was “entitled” to. And you Robert Pogson are not entitled to another persons or companies work for free. You either meet their terms of use and pay what they ask, or you don’t.

    I would say that you are indeed fortunate that the pony tailed douche bag that ran Sun Microystems into the ground got the bright idea of open sourcing the commercial office suite that Sun purchased. Otherwise you would have to actually pay to license someone else’s work to do your word processing.

  143. oldfart says:

    “oldfart remember just because something turns explosive around a particular point does not mean you have the detonator to set it off.”

    No complex piece of software is ever bug free. But I have had more up front problems dealing with the exchange of complex document is Libreoffice than I have ever had with Microsoft word.

    IBTW – I just had to open and review a 60Mb PDF file in word 2013. Word converted it to an editable document that we essentially a sequence of dense page images that I had zero problems scrolling through.

  144. oldfart says:

    “oldfart something you have got up Linux people for is the works for me arguments. If you have not just noticed with MS Office you were doing exactly the same thing.”

    Nope. The problem is Sir, that I have used Open & Libre Office versions. They do not work for me, and would not work for me even if I were to pay for them.

  145. oiaohm says:

    oldfart something you have got up Linux people for is the works for me arguments. If you have not just noticed with MS Office you were doing exactly the same thing.

  146. oldfart wrote, “a cheapskate like R0bert Pogson who thinks he is entitled to something for nothing”.

    There’s nothing “cheap” about something for nothing. People, except in special circumstances, don’t pay for air and water for example. Does oldfart object to people living and being free to breathe air and drink the rain? That’s not being cheap. That’s being alive and free. I also think that I should not be a slave of M$. That’s not being cheap but free. There’s nothing wrong with paying for software per copy except that software is available for a lower price. That’s not cheap, just wise. Without a free market in software we’d all be slaves to M$ but there is a free market and GNU/Linux and other FLOSS is a product of the world freely shared like air and water. There’s just no need for most of us to use non-free software.

  147. oiaohm says:

    Really? then I must be special, because I have handled files 3 times that size without trying.
    oldfart remember just because something turns explosive around a particular point does not mean you have the detonator to set it off.

    Lucky usage of formating and the like that you did not do anything that could be a detonator to cause the file to fail. Yes that is why you can use 3 times the size.

    At 20 to 30 in older MS Office documents you have to start watching what you are doing that you are not doing actions that break any of the limits. Even at 20 to 30 in OOXML you have to watch out for the styles limit.

    Explosive point is when you end up with documents that magically corrupt without notice as well.

    I personally like using ODF under Libreoffice due the the fact I don’t have to worry about limits.

  148. oldfart says:

    “Please note the max size file Word is meant to handle is 512 megs. It turns explosive around 20-30 megs in the older versions of the save formats. ODF format files are a scary 4GB limit.”

    Really? then I must be special, because I have handled files 3 times that size without trying.

  149. oiaohm says:

    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2007-word/ms-word-crash/34f11456-f000-4f1b-9a40-9c14195fe685
    oldfart really I would not claim that MS office can do too much. Yes those images in headers and footers in word can be the straw that broke the camels back.

    Libreoffice you can use images in headers and footers without worrying about causing 1 crashing word 2 documents that will never open.

    Please note the max size file Word is meant to handle is 512 megs. It turns explosive around 20-30 megs in the older versions of the save formats. ODF format files are a scary 4GB limit.

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/211489

    Yes the fact that OOXML uses ZIP64 format is very much like tits on a bull. The MS Office programs cannot in fact handling larger than 512mb in the first place. Then you can hit other limits before you get anywhere near 512mb. So the 4G limit of zip32 would have been more than suitable. Yes Libreoffice supports documents 4 times the size of MS Office. But you better have some serous tolerance and ram if you even have the idea of opening a 4G file.

    4,079 styles limit can be why ODF documents cannot be opened by MS Office. Also notice the master document limit of 255 inserted documents. Libreoffice supports unlimited inserted documents. Please note this gets even more horible. The 4G limit of ODF can be exceed by using Master documents. You see books with more than 255 chapters. Yes master documents tradition is each chapter a document. Remember you can export a master document under Libreoffice back into a single document unless the result breaks the 4G limit. 4G limit is also a limit of many file system. One day Libreoffice may support zip64 for ODF format but it is not like we need it any time soon. ODF defines zero hard limits other than not saying ZIP64 has to be used.

    Big complex documents like Legal might be better in something like Libreoffice using ODF that lacks so many limits its not funny.

  150. oldfart says:

    “Word and the entire M$ office suite, has cost people plenty of money over the past 20+ years, again its boils down to everyone paying a yearly fee for the right to access their files, create and print them.”

    Since when do you have a right to someone elses work for free? There have been lower cost and even free options for decades. nobody has been holding a gun to your head

    Eh?

    Or are you a cheapskate like R0bert Pogson who thinks he is entitled to something for nothing.

  151. dougman says:

    Word and the entire M$ office suite, has cost people plenty of money over the past 20+ years, again its boils down to everyone paying a yearly fee for the right to access their files, create and print them.

  152. oldfart says:

    “LibreOffice allows inserting images/logos/text/page numbers, time, date… and controlling where they go in the header. ”

    Word has done this for years.

  153. kurkosdr wrote, “The first thing I think when I want to add numbers to my pages is “insert” and then “footers” and then “default style”. Or “fields”.”

    LibreOffice gives you complete control of the process rather than trusting Bill Gates’ judgment. The header and footer of pages can of course have much more than page numbers so how do you locate all of them? LibreOffice allows inserting images/logos/text/page numbers, time, date… and controlling where they go in the header. That’s very nice. For short documents, I turn off headers but in a large document, this flexibility is great.

  154. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr Ok in MS Word do a custom page number format. Its a pain from hell.

    Libreoffices insert fields could be replaced with better. But its very functional if you are doing custom page numbering formats.

    The insert footer part of instructions is old. Current day Libreoffice support click at bottom of page to add a footer or remove a footer.

    There are writer tools for libreoffice that adds a selection list for page numbering.

    PS: And don’t get me started on Impress. The damn thing is not even WYSIWYG. Sometimes you save your presentation, and when you open it the alignment is off because Impress realized the text doesn’t fit in one line after all, must break it into two lines.
    kurkosdr have you not used Powerpoint a lot. It does the same evil annoyance to you of save then change mind throwing formating out. About the only way to be sure with either Powerpoint or Impress is don’t word wrap.

    Save as PDF is about the best way not to have random happen to presentation.

  155. DrLoser says:

    No, really, I’d honestly like to know, Robert.

    What was so grotesquely ugly with version 4.3?

  156. DrLoser says:

    I mean, correct me if I’m wrong here, but the whole reason that LibreOffice was forked off OpenOffice, and that OpenOffice even existed in the first place, was to create PDF files.

    As we all know, PDF is an even better general-purpose Open Document Format than, well, the Open Document Format.

  157. DrLoser says:

    I never knew anyone to have problems creating page numbers in Writer, or using the software to begin with, you are just being foolish.

    A truly professional use of both Kleenex and an otherwise borked piece of (F)LOSS. You continue to impress, Dougie.

    (According to Kurks, it’s “page numbers in footnotes,” btw. But don’t let’s trouble our limited ability to concentrate with details! That 30 seconds is long past! Hooray for the next little wipe from the Kleenex box!)

    Now, in the incredibly unlikely circumstance that your “client” refuses to accept a PDF document … what do you do as an encore?

    Oh wait, I know. You dial 1 (800) 273-TALK.

  158. dougman says:

    Well to be honest, I am not an Impress fan. I rather do my work in Writer, convert to PDF then show the pages in Chrome or http://impressive.sourceforge.net/

    I never knew anyone to have problems creating page numbers in Writer, or using the software to begin with, you are just being foolish.

  159. kurkosdr says:

    @DrLoser and dougie

    PROTIP: The 9:30 saved can be spent while using your newly-updated LibreOffice, by constantly Googling “how do I do X in LibreOffice”, where X is usually something simple that should have been easy to find without Google, but it’s not.

    Proceed to spend more 9:30s, until the option of buying MS Office (for the price of 10 euros from the warez shop) starts making sense .

    For example, here are the intuitive instructions on how to add page numbers to your document: https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Inserting_Page_Numbers_in_Footers

    Ahh… so easy. The first thing I think when I want to add numbers to my pages is “insert” and then “footers” and then “default style”. Or “fields”.

    PS: And don’t get me started on Impress. The damn thing is not even WYSIWYG. Sometimes you save your presentation, and when you open it the alignment is off because Impress realized the text doesn’t fit in one line after all, must break it into two lines.

  160. Dr Loser says:

    At least LO won’t leave me and expect 50% of my net worth.

    Oh, you old ’70s reprobate, you. These days, the Divorce Courts mandate a strict 50-50 split of net worth after The Download.

    A quick tally: The Dominant Half (Libre) — $0. The Submissive Half (Dougie) — $0.

    Seems to me that you’d come out even on the deal, Dougie. But if you need a lawyer, let me know. We can 1 (800) 273-TALK.

  161. Dr Loser says:

    Wow…you would prefer the 10-minute option over the 30-second option? You must have no life.

    I’m sure I can find ways to improve my life, Dougie, but if the best I can do is to save nine minutes and thirty seconds on a download, then it would probably be time for me to turn to the Samaritans. You might need the number, given that you’ll probably run out of FLOSS software to download soon, so here it is: 1 (800) 273-TALK.

    I’m curious. What do you do in those 30 seconds of total expectant bliss, Dougie? You probably don’t need Kleenex after the first ten seconds or so, but there must be something else that you use to fill out that awful twenty seconds void towards the end.

    Coffee? Yogic Mantras? Quoting Stuart Smalley to yourself?

    Please tell me that you don’t self-harm with razor blades. You’re a better person than that, Dougie. Check the Stuart Smalley thing out!

  162. dougman says:

    Wow…you would prefer the 10-minute option over the 30-second option? You must have no life.

    Comparing LO to mail-order brides? How weak!! At least LO won’t leave me and expect 50% of my net worth.

  163. Dr Loser says:

    I checked the installation from The Little Woman’s terminal and found she was still using 4.3.

    Did you ask the “little woman” first, or was this just a Pater Familias sort of thing? You don’t seem to be in the habit of giving anybody else but you choice, do you, Robert.

    Funny sort of “choice” you espouse, in my opinion. Choice until somebody more important paves over it for you. That’d be a winner anywhere in the Free World, I think.

    I switched that and checked it by opening a random file. I found a spreadsheet she had created to keep track of EVERYTHING…

    What’re the odds of that, on a “random file?” Would this be “random, as in the spreadsheet file I could find that had the largest disk footprint?” Or would it be “random?”

    I can’t say I find this behaviour any more appetizing than I find the behaviour of the NSA, Robert.

  164. DrLoser says:

    M$ releases a Linux product, imagine that.

    Gawrsh, Mickey, I wonder what the servers run on?

  165. DrLoser says:

    Updated this morning… took an entire 30-seconds.

    M$ Office is such a bloated mess.

    “I bought my mail-order bride online, and it only took me 30 seconds!

    “Stupid people told me that I should invest a little more time. Maybe 10 minutes downloading her personal details? Maybe even compare her against a few alternatives? These people are fools. My time is more precious than that. The last thing I want is a bloated mess that takes more than 30 seconds to “update” — I’m not quite sure what that means, but it’s probly like an “upvote” on Reddit.

    “Sadly when UPS finally delivered my mail-order bride, I discovered that I had acquired one that was a) male b) slightly more hairy than I’m used to and worst of all c) bloated.”

    Never mind, Dougie. You can always wait for version 4.5. Linux is a world of infinite promise!

    And somewhat limited delivery, UPS notwithstanding.

  166. dougman wrote, “Updated this morning… took an entire 30-seconds.”

    I checked the installation from The Little Woman’s terminal and found she was still using 4.3. I switched that and checked it by opening a random file. I found a spreadsheet she had created to keep track of EVERYTHING… I kid you not. It took 25 years, but I think she finally gets IT. 🙂 Beast was having trouble with she and I simultaneously using different applications (lack of caching was wasting ~1gB RAM) for documents and browsing. Now we are in tune. I deleted 4.3 and set her shortcuts to what I use.

  167. DrLoser says:

    You have a very strange definition of “beautiful,” Robert, but I’ll take you at your word.

    Tell us, how dramatically ugly was version 4.3? On a scale of ten:

    1 = Elephant Man
    10 = Belt-Beaten Red Headed Illegitimate Stepson

  168. dougman says:

    Updated this morning… took an entire 30-seconds.

    M$ Office is such a bloated mess.

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