Some Twits Just Are Too Funny To Ignore

While the world sees Wintel decaying more or less globally and in every segment of IT, this twit opines that GNU/Linux on the desktop is as good as dead with M$’s next release.“While the consumer hatred of Windows 8 seemed like an opportunity for Linux to grow, sadly, it did not happen. Even sadder? Windows 10 closes the door entirely. The year of the Linux desktop will never happen. Rest in peace.” He just does not understand the Wintel monopoly.

  • Wintel has always sold “vapourware”, promising far more than it ever delivered. Remember, Vista, “7” and “8” were all billed as the greatest things since sliced bread. “7” only succeeded because it was Vista-debugged. “8” only succeeded where it was all consumers could find on retail shelves and they didn’t buy it.
  • M$ is giving away licences for “10”. That’s the best they can do in a free market. It won’t be good enough. M$ will actually have to pay people to ship and to sell Wintel. That’s not a long term business plan. That’s an emergency measure.
  • M$’s stuff is still plagued by malware designed to penetrate the many chinks in its armour. Consumers and businesses are fed up with that.
  • GNU/Linux systems typically update all software with a single command, unlike that other OS which requires something different for the OS and each non-FREE application. Consumers are fed up with that. That’s why they hate the pain of buying a new PC just to get M$’s latest and greatest restricted OS.
  • Wintel slows down to unusability. Everyone is fed up with that. They want to use hardware as long as it runs. They can do that with GNU/Linux.
  • Re-re-reboots…


So, the value of M$’s OS is negative in many minds and it will take more than $0 pricing to change that. GNU/Linux is a fresh start and many millions of users are loving it globally. Growth of GNU/Linux is rapid and accelerating. That’s not dead. That’s life. That’s growth.

There was a time when government, education and business neglected GNU/Linux. Those days are over. Check out India. GNU/Linux has a big heartbeat. That’s weekday usage in government, schools and yes, business… Note the prominent slope.

So, to TFA and its authour, HAHAHAHA! ROFL! GASP! ROFL! Declaring GNU/Linux dead when it’s growing like Topsy is just funny.

See Windows 10 is the final nail in the coffin for the Linux desktop.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

70 Responses to Some Twits Just Are Too Funny To Ignore

  1. DrLoser says:

    The debian multi company module means you cannot have one Idiot CEO approve something resulting in your day being ruined.

    Indeed, Fifi.

    Some twits are just too funny to ignore.

  2. oiaohm says:

    The debian multi company module means you cannot have one Idiot CEO approve something resulting in your day being ruined.

  3. oiaohm says:

    http://www.itcertificationmaster.com/it-certifications/unix-and-linux-certifications/
    Lpi Yes the staff certifications for debian and every other distrobution other than Redhat, Oracle and SUSE is Lpi. Heck the Lpi certifications cover those three.

    You might wonder why the person did not list Ubuntu certification. Ubuntu Certification is in fact lpi course that Ubuntu has the right to host.

    Oldfart should debian just do what Ubuntu and comptia does for Certification?? that is just re-brand the lpi course.

    As I said you cannot see the forest for the trees. There is no practical reason for Debian to offer staff certification with LPI does a very good job of it.

    oldfart really the arguement that debian does not provide to enterprise is not exactly right. Debian does not panda to Enterprise. But that does not mean Debian does not deal with Enterprise issues. Pay a support company around Debian and it magical what they can do for you. Yes to be a Debian partner or Consultants Listed by the debian project means at least 1 of the staff member has package commit and reject rights in debian.

    They make zero effort to accommodate commercial business needs
    If debian was not out todo this they would not have given the rights out the way they have.

    A commercial entity that depends directly on Debian had better have a large staff of senior sysadmins with a lot of experience.
    Wrong ether contract a company with a Debian high level personal those are listed as partners or consultants or employ high level staff directly.

    Particular personal in Debian can reject packages also call for a vote to dismiss a DM or DD from being able to submit packages until they correct there ways. Please note becoming a Debian DD is at least 6months supervision. Becoming a DM requires other DD to agree to placement.

    Yes DM and DD both can and new packages to debian core.

    Control of debian requires in most cases buying your voting rights by either employing debian personal directly or contracting companies that employ debian personal.

    Debian is a money talks setup.

  4. oldfart wrote, “Debian is and always has been a zero support distribution. They make zero effort to accommodate commercial business needs or . They offer no certifications, they are responsible to no one. A commercial entity that depends directly on Debian had better have a large staff of senior sysadmins with a lot of experience.”

    Nonsense. Debian gives total control to the system administrator. No need for a large staff. I handled 700 accounts and 100+ seats and a handful of servers and it was a tiny part of a full-time job. I wasted 15 minutes every day just seeing that everything was humming. It usually was.

    The French National Police are a large organization to be sure. They saved a bundle by moving desktops to Ubuntu GNU/Linux, a derivative of Debian. Not TFA’s terms, “simplifying maintenance and improving ease of use”, exactly what I found in my much smaller organizations.

    An example: In my <100 PC school, where I last worked, I had 6 different types of PCs. I needed only two images, one 32-bit, and one 64-bit. Nowadays, Debian does “multi-arch” so only one image would be needed. With that other OS, we would need 6 different images, or hire some godawful layer of software to keep track of it all. That’s easier maintenance and that saves time/money for organizations of all sizes.

  5. oldfart says:

    “Debian has a lot of great support and many large organizations find that with Debian keeping track of dependencies with APT and many repositories which can be replicated/edited, they can be easily self-supported.”

    WRong. Debian is and always has been a zero support distribution. They make zero effort to accommodate commercial business needs or . They offer no certifications, they are responsible to no one. A commercial entity that depends directly on Debian had better have a large staff of senior sysadmins with a lot of experience.

    There is more to IT than taking care of a piddly-crap student lab in the middle of nowhere where you call the tune Robert Pogson.

  6. oldfart says:

    “That’s the market catching up to my forward thinking.”

    ROFLMAO!

  7. oldfart wrote, “Red Hat is acknowledged to have between 65% and 80% of enterprise installations. Red Hat legitimized Linux in the business world.”

    That may be true and I believe RedHat did a lot of good for a long time but they are certainly not the only game in town. Debian has a lot of great support and many large organizations find that with Debian keeping track of dependencies with APT and many repositories which can be replicated/edited, they can be easily self-supported.

    e.g. in the remote North, I had no trouble taking care of all the clients we could obtain. Many schools have just a computer lab and a handful of PCs but I managed to get several schools to a multiple of that with little or no impact to the budget. That ease scales up very well. I really liked that I needed only one image for each architecture and one command on my PC would update the whole works reliably. The last place I worked went from ~20 working PCs to ~80 before I left with my 10 thin clients. The workload decreased greatly compared to those 20 PCs running XP with Debian GNU/Linux and all it cost was freight on some donated PCs and our Internet connection. In every other way we were self-supporting and IT was just a tiny part of my day. While RedHat might provide an easy entry in the budget of some organizations, many are quite happy using Debian GNU/Linux and relying on Debian and their local IT-staff.

  8. oldfart wrote, “who is Robert Pogson to set the limit of what anyone, be they individual or corporation can earn?”

    I don’t. The market is doing that. See M$’s recent 10-Q filing. Client licensing is way down “D&C Licensing revenue decreased $1.8 billion or 18%, mainly due to an $811 million or 57% decline in Windows Phone revenue, as well as lower revenue from licenses of Windows OEM and Office Consumer. … D&C Licensing gross margin decreased $1.2 billion or 14%, primarily due to the decline in revenue”, commercial licensing and its margin is down 2%. That’s the market catching up to my forward thinking. If M$ has to cut its price to $0 to come close to competing in the market, FLOSS is not the crapware oldfart claims it is. In fact, M$ is deliberately changing from charging for licences to charging for services, much more in line with the FLOSS way of doing things.

  9. oiaohm says:

    oldfart
    http://www.pontikis.net/blog/five-reasons-to-use-debian-as-a-server
    Enterprise in fact don’t use redhat as much as you would think. centos out number RHEL installation. Yes there is a reason why redhet sells support for Centos.

    http://www.informationweek.com/cloud/infrastructure-as-a-service/googles-cloud-drops-custom-linux-for-debian/d/d-id/1109911?

    Apparently to Oldfart Hewlett-Packard is no names. As I said you cannot see the forest for the trees. Hewlett-Packard is one of the major players in the Debian paid consultancy game.

    Oldfart if you go through the consultancy groups around Debian you will find many major players who are many times larger than Redhat. Difference is they sell hardware as well as software.

    Yes life a lot simpler debian support contract with the same company that provided the hardware. Good by to blame pushing between hardware vendor and OS vendor for under performance. Yes 1 vendor responsible for both so a fault in hardware or software they have to fix it so cannot pass buck to a different party.

  10. ram wrote, “Intel, on the other hand, is now selling 5th generation NUC boxen that ARE Linux compatible with extensive Linux support.”

    Good for them. Small cheap computers are the way forward for just about everything. I still think ARM is better in terms of price/performance. I don’t want to pay extra for “Intel Inside”. The cheapest NUC at NCIX is $180. The next step up is $hundreds. A good ARMed box is about the same price and uses much less power, 3W – 8W versus 36W. The NUC can hold much more RAM however. The Utilite2 has soldered RAM, 2gB. A Galaxy Note 4 smartphone can be had for $300… and it runs 20h on a 3200mAh battery, 160mA X 3.3V = 400mW including 3gB, some storage, display, camera, and a phone…

    The NUC is decent but not optimal for many things. I can see it taking a lot of market share if it had ARM and a much lower price. e.g. 1pc Original Android TV Box Allwinner A80 Octa Core ARM Cortex A15/A7 2G/16G 2.4G/5GHz WiFi 4K*2K H.265 SATA Smart TV costs $140 delivered to my mailbox. That uses the Allwinner A80 CPU which is a little dated (last year) but the specs are decent.

    This is the year I should buy some box with ARM A57 CPU. I just need the right networking and sufficient RAM to hold Beast’s processes.

  11. Deaf Spy says:

    More to the point, who is Robert Pogson to set the limit of what anyone, be they individual or corporation can earn?
    That is pretty typical for communists. They just love to tell how much people should get paid, what people should buy, what people should use, how people should dress, and most important, what people think. Communists adore telling you what people think.

    “World is tired of…” . Familiar, isn’t it? And just in the pattern.

  12. dougman says:

    I do say, the latest Intel video drivers beat out Nvidia, on the current box I am using with Linux.

  13. ram says:

    Mr. Pogson said: “Of the two, Intel is an absolute angel but they were caught paying OEMs to drop AMD, clearly an anticompetitive act. The bulk of their chips are hair-driers. ”

    Intel’s offenses were quite some time ago and they have genuinely put in measures to make sure it doesn’t happen again. For a giant corporation that is about all you can ask.

    I think it is rather unfortunate that AMD does not make any Linux compatible motherboards or complete boxen. As a consequence, for two years now, no boards with new AMD processors are known to work with all the major Linux distributions. AMD’s Linux support for their GPU cards is also extremely limited. There is little doubt they have “screwed the pooch” by staying in bed with Microsoft.

    Intel, on the other hand, is now selling 5th generation NUC boxen that ARE Linux compatible with extensive Linux support. That is alot of computing power in a very small low cost package — and good on electrical power too! They even have 4k video outputs! Instructions on how to make a Linux media center with them!

    Check it out at:

    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-home-theater-solution-brief.html

  14. oldfart says:

    “Why should M$ be paid so much more than the cost of production? ”

    Why should Robert Pogson have gotten paid for his expertise as a teacher with experience teaching in the far north? More to the point, who is Robert Pogson to set the limit of what anyone, be they individual or corporation can earn?

  15. oldfart says:

    “oldfart higher percentage s of paid support over Linux is for Debian way head of Redhat or Suse. Interesting enough Debian does not show the billions Redhat does because it spread over more companies. If you total up the support companies Debian is about 3 times the size of Redhat in support income. Fragmented means you cannot see the forest for the trees.”

    Comparing a pile of no name consultancies who “support” Debian with Red Hats enterprise class support is a joke sir. Red Hat is acknowledged to have between 65% and 80% of enterprise installations. Red Hat legitimized Linux in the business world.

  16. oldfart says:

    ” X is far superior to any green screen text-only terminal from the 1970s. You know that. ”
    In function and feature X is not substantially different than the IBM Graphics (I believe) 3279 terminal running GDDM that I was familiar with 30+ years ago.

  17. oiaohm says:

    oiaohm wrote, “the bios bit in fact cost quite a bit in extra testing to make sure bios embed product key in fact works.”

    Robert Pogson wrote “Divided by a million copies, what’s that, $1 a unit? Not likely. If those keys were that shaky, OEMs wouldn’t ship them at all.”

    Really the keys are exactly shaky is the process. 1$ per unit if everything goes to plan. Between $100 to $300 dollars if you end up with a dead batch due to some malfunction. Worse is run out of product keys have multi million dollar equipment sitting around doing nothing. A production line producing chromebooks and android devices does not have to worry about having enough product keys.

    Dr Loser you are aware that Windows defrag even in modern versions of Windows fails to work under particular conditions. Like on your new computer you have been in an configured you restore points so they cannot eat up the complete harddrive. Ext4 and lot of the modern Linux filesystems also automatically defrag in background. In fact part auto defaging has been a property of Linux file systems for a while. If everything is configured right you should never need to manually run a defrag on modern Linux or Windows. Key thing is if everything is configured right and Windows is not out the box.

    Restore Linux no individual product key and auto-configuring to most hardware. Linux for a business just can have a stack of OS images. 1 AMD, 1 Nvidia and 1 Intel. That will cover 90 percent of your computers. Because items like Audio in majority of cases is auto configure.

    Mind you restore points has very limited usage. We choose to have them on Linux. http://www.unixmen.com/systemback-restore-linux-system-previous-state/

    Delousing is something to think about. Every major backup solution of Linux contains a method to produce a re-installation disk. Some are more horible than others.

    The big problem with windows system restore is virus handling. Linux does get rootkits. This is why OS core and User files for a long time have been installed on different partitions. Something goes wrong you can nuke the OS Partition without messing major-ally with the user data.

    Yes something Linux can do is create infection free states really simply.

    Here something to consider. You are running a business you are running central backup like Amanda do you need restore points on your wired in computers. The answer is no you don’t . So all restore points become is wasted disk space and more of a security nightmare as it provide a location for a infection to hide.

    Yes Linux you can swap the restore of a twin this is what we have puppet for as well to change the computer name in the restored system. Remember badly infected computer restore data might worthless. Linux advantage we can use its relations restore data instead.

  18. Dr Loser says:

    I tell a lie on defragmentation. Apparently the OS did it for me without asking, some time back in December. On both drives.

    Seems like I’m at 0% fragmentation, at no cost whatsoever.

    Kewl!

  19. Dr Loser says:

    It’s much much more every time they have to re-re-reboot or delouse or defrag or decorrupt or backup or restore.

    I’m game for this, Robert. Why not we completely ignore all the lookups on the Web for how to make systemd (or anything else) work on Linux! If it’s FUN, it’s FREE! But all that M$ stuff ain’t no fun, I agree. So, I’ve come up with a plan. I’ve owned this Windows 7 (bottom-end Compaq) system for, I think, three years. I can cost it out, if only you supply me with the numbers.

    1) Re-re-boots. (Let’s just boil it down to a reboot. Assume that more than one is necessary.) A financial cost on this one, please.
    2) Delousing. A financial cost on this one, please.
    3) Defragging. Don’t bother. I’ve never done it once. Multiply whatever figure you come up with by zero.
    4) Backup. In general I think everybody on every platform should do this. But, no matter, a financial cost, please.
    5) Restore. This is actually much easier on Windows than it is on any Linux desktop I have come across. But let’s presume that I am totally wrong on that point. A financial cost, please.

    Once you have come up with a unit cost per “defect,” Robert, I can tell you how much my three year old Windows 7 desktop has cost me. And, more importantly, I can admit that cost to myself.

    You owe it to yourself to convert me to the One True Zero Dollar Way!

  20. DrLoser says:

    USB stick has advantages for schools and the like.

    “… and the like?”

    Double BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

  21. oldfart wrote, “saving $50.00 even if it is $50.00 a year is a drop in the bucket.”

    $50 or $100 is not the cost to the consumer of that other OS. It’s much much more every time they have to re-re-reboot or delouse or defrag or decorrupt or backup or restore. Consumers don’t want to be IT people but that other OS requires it or it craps out withing months of use. I’ve seen quite locked-down Wintel PCs that took five minutes to respond to a click because they were loaded down with so much malware. I’ve seen Wintel PCs with dial-up bandwidth on broadband because malware was using their Ethernet port to send spam. Consumers hate that. They can avoid that with */Linux and FLOSS.

  22. oldfart wrote, “The fact is that copyright exists whether you like it or not. Those who hold copyrights have every right to protect their intellectual property no matter what for it is in – BY LAW!”

    Read the USAian constitution, on copyright, “To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.”

    It’s not about making rich guys richer, but rewarding initiative/effort. How is a guy encouraged more to invent/publish something if he can get paid for one million or two million copies? It doesn’t make any difference. How than does making billions of copies have any relation to “To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts”? Further, how is it relevant to products that expire in a few years rather than centuries? Nope. M$’s EULA is about extending copyright law far beyond what the constitution, the legal foundation of USAian society, provides. For any other product such restrictions would be laughed right out of the market but because M$ got OEMs to bundle their OS as a monopoly, M$ could do anything they wanted, legal or not.

    It’s not about paying people for their work. The programmers at M$ do get paid. Why should M$ be paid so much more than the cost of production? Name the authour of any book who has a margin of ~50% on the cost of production for hundreds of millions of copies and gets to restrict in a gazillion ways how a book may be used? Nope, authours typically get a tiny percentage per copy or a contract plus some percentage. That’s inducement to produce, not what M$ does. M$ is being rewarded for doing less and enslaving others, not what copyright provides.

  23. oldfart wrote, “dumb terminals”.

    Get off the dumb terminals thing. X is far superior to any green screen text-only terminal from the 1970s. You know that. Simple devices are what people want. They want reliable IT that just keeps working. The way to deliver that to consumers is to supply a really simple and rugged device, not a super-computer in a box.

  24. DrLoser says:

    Yes a very simple glitch in production with Windows makes a huge mess.

    And it’s a universally well-known fact that this has happened at least once, Fifi.

    Yet Windows machines that come out with the same product keys can result in not being able to update.

    BWAHAHAHAHA!

  25. Dr Loser says:

    M$ may get ~$50 per licence but the retail markups bring it to ~$100.

    Actually, the retail markdowns bring it closer to $0, Robert. Unless you’re positing some sort of bizarre snakes-and-ladders game where all that crapware (and we all despise crapware) cuts $50 off the cost, and then the retailer adds another $100 for no good commercial reason.

    Never mind. Let’s pretend for the sake of argument that the M$ licence isn’t (roughly) balanced out, for a retail sale, by the crapware. Let’s take your proposition at face value.

    Why on earth would any retailer in the world stock a $300 bit of hardware at $400, including a $50 markup?

    I suppose, if the thing were selling like hot cakes, said retailer would mark it up to the max. But according to you, the thing isn’t.

    Which means that your (completely undocumented and untested) proposition makes no sense whatsoever.

    Tell me, Robert, have you got any commercial experience whatsoever? And by commercial, I mean market stalls, sales engineering, writing contracts, anything at all that involves gouging a reluctant customer out of $50 that the guy over the road won’t charge them?

    Naturally, I am not in a position to guess. But I’ll guess anyhow.

    You don’t really sound like you have, do you?

  26. Dr Loser says:

    The only thing really preventing Windows on x86 chromebooks under qemu is the Licensing headaches for Windows. Arm kinda has a performance issue as well. Only thing really preventing Windows using bochs under Android on arm is arm performance lack of at this stage and Licensing headaches for Windows.

    And the only thing really preventing me from dating Michelle Pfeiffer is that it’s never going to happen.

    Every single last little bit of that gibberish was nothing but a feed to “it’s never gonna happen,” wasn’t it, Fifi?

    Solutions, my man. Solutions. Nobody likes Problems.

  27. oldfart says:

    “Chromebooks are basically becoming Linux Distribution friendly while remaining massively Windows unfriendly.”

    Which pretty much guarantees that they will rapidly be seen as little better than the dumb terminals they ultimately replace as people who purchase them with an eye to turning them into cheap windows systems discover that they are true crap.

  28. oldfart says:

    “The whole idea of copyright and protecting creators for a period of time is invalid in the modern era when copying is so easy electronically and production starts at millions of copies. ”

    Bullshit.

    You are entitled to you own beliefs but not you own facts. The fact is that copyright exists whether you like it or not. Those who hold copyrights have every right to protect their intellectual property no matter what for it is in – BY LAW!

    Keep you hands out of other peoples pockets cheapskate!

  29. oldfart says:

    “FLOSS of all kinds is emminently commercially viable so this comment is irrelevant. Just about every business on the planet uses FLOSS these days, all kinds of it. Hacking is how FLOSS is created. The FLOSS licences allow use, examination, modification and distribution, key elements of hacking. This lowers the cost of software for everyone, especially businesses who pay much of the ill-gotten $billions M$ has been raking in for decades.”

    Hacking is for geeks, not consumers Robert Pogson. Most of us even people like myself who can and have hacked when it was needed, no longer do so because while you may not like it, we have solutions that work for us.

    As far as lowering the cost of computing is concerned, saving $50.00 even if it is $50.00 a year is a drop in the bucket. We are not cheapskates who expect something for nothing like you are.

    IMHO the reality is that the chromebook is and will remain too limited for general use beyond a niche market. Chromebooks are marketed first and foremost as a way to save money. Because cost is foremost, most of the chromebook are made using low end cpu ‘s as cheaply and as flimsily as possible. Want a better built or more powerful chromebook – be prepared to pay almost as much if not more than a low end full function standard portable PC. And once you get to that higher pricepoint, the chromebook loses 90% of its appeal.

  30. oiaohm wrote, “the bios bit in fact cost quite a bit in extra testing to make sure bios embed product key in fact works.”

    Divided by a million copies, what’s that, $1 a unit? Not likely. If those keys were that shaky, OEMs wouldn’t ship them at all.

  31. oiaohm says:

    No, it does not. It’s all automated and costs just pennies a copy.
    Robert Pogson the bios bit in fact cost quite a bit in extra testing to make sure bios embed product key in fact works.

    http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-8-moves-to-bios-based-product-keys/ Yes Windows 8 on OEM from major vendors don’t use OEM stickers. Instead product key written into bios. So Robert Pogson is now like printing money where you have to check the notes that the serial numbers are not screwed up.

    http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/software-os/f/4677/t/19535839

    Yep then you have vendor discs to patch up where the print run went wrong basically.

    Yes each chromebook bios in a model is identical image. The chrome OS image on the internal storage in a model is also identical image.

    Windows 8 on is custom in bios and harddrive. Windows 8 + machineis like printing money with slightly suspect machines ending up with problems and chrome os and android machine is like printing a simple flyer offering a discount. Yes the Chrome OS and android devices have a lower production defect rate due to simpler OS design due to lacking product tracking crap.

    Yes if two or a thousand Chrome OS/Android devices come out with the same serial number they will work. Yet Windows machines that come out with the same product keys can result in not being able to update. Yes a very simple glitch in production with Windows makes a huge mess.

  32. oldfart wrote, “Because all else are nothing but hacks. Businesses don’t sell hacks, non techies don’t buy hacks. he fact that you can get a crapbook to run windows or run some hackers delight like QEMU on an ARM processor means nothing if its not commercially viable.”

    FLOSS of all kinds is emminently commercially viable so this comment is irrelevant. Just about every business on the planet uses FLOSS these days, all kinds of it. Hacking is how FLOSS is created. The FLOSS licences allow use, examination, modification and distribution, key elements of hacking. This lowers the cost of software for everyone, especially businesses who pay much of the ill-gotten $billions M$ has been raking in for decades.

  33. oiaohm wrote, “Putting product keys in bios and making custom install images cost a lot of time.”

    No, it does not. It’s all automated and costs just pennies a copy. The whole idea of copyright and protecting creators for a period of time is invalid in the modern era when copying is so easy electronically and production starts at millions of copies. In the old days, a creator was blessed if he could sell a few thousand copies. Selling licences to use works is just an horrible extension of copyright law when it comes to software like an operating system in a monopoly. The whole purpose of copyright was to encourage creators to create, not to create empires for tyrants.

  34. oiaohm says:

    Chromebooks are basically becoming Linux Distribution friendly while remaining massively Windows unfriendly.

  35. oiaohm says:

    http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all
    oldfart higher percentage s of paid support over Linux is for Debian way head of Redhat or Suse. Interesting enough Debian does not show the billions Redhat does because it spread over more companies. If you total up the support companies Debian is about 3 times the size of Redhat in support income. Fragmented means you cannot see the forest for the trees.

    The consumer market is as you well know very different – people like this sites owner feel that it should just work. They are not going to tolerate esoteric hacks from some third party vendor that may crap out in the next release.
    Interesting enough standard Ubuntu/Debian usb boot flash drives work in chromebooks that support new boot from usb. Basically the esoteric hacks bit has disappear other than having switch to developer mode and enable usb boot. Note these are not third party hacks but following google instructions.

    After that it is not different to running Windows on a standard Linux virtual machine solution.

    oldfart issue here is I understand what the new changes mean. Google chromebooks is becoming more and more standard Linux Distribution friendly.

  36. oldfart says:

    “Commercially viable does not mean it has to be a commercial product only that commercial support is provided for it.”

    In a business context perhaps, but not in a consumer context. Large Business with requirements for niche products will rely on paid support from Red Hat (and to a lesser extent SuSe) because they has earned a reputation for producing and maintaining the best distribution out there. they might if their needs are great enough work with a third party niche support company.
    The consumer market is as you well know very different – people like this sites owner feel that it should just work. They are not going to tolerate esoteric hacks from some third party vendor that may crap out in the next release.

    “The only thing really preventing Windows on x86 chromebooks under qemu is the Licensing headaches for Windows. Arm kinda has a performance issue as well. Only thing really preventing Windows using bochs under Android on arm is arm performance lack of at this stage and Licensing headaches for Windows.”

    ROFLMAO

    Almost only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and tactical nukes sir. Thank you once again for proving my point.

  37. dougman says:

    Microsoft isn’t “commercially viable” these days, just ask all the companies that have been hit with malware and lost customer information.

  38. oiaohm says:

    oldfart redhat and ubuntu sell support covering using qemu on arm under their distributions to run Windows.

    Commercially viable does not mean it has to be a commercial product only that commercial support is provided for it.

    http://keepod.org/ is a commercial product. Allowing a chromebook to usb boot allows keepod to be used to put android applications on the chromebook. This is not a set of hacks. School environment each student could have their own key.

    The only thing really preventing Windows on x86 chromebooks under qemu is the Licensing headaches for Windows. Arm kinda has a performance issue as well. Only thing really preventing Windows using bochs under Android on arm is arm performance lack of at this stage and Licensing headaches for Windows.

    Windows is a major pain in the but when you want to really license on a per user base not machines. Yes the big thing about Android devices or chrome os devices running windows it the fact Windows will most likely be on removable storage in a format that allows to be simply and rapidly moved between devices.

  39. oldfart says:

    “Oldfart why does everything have to be commercial.”

    Because all else are nothing but hacks. Businesses don’t sell hacks, non techies don’t buy hacks. he fact that you can get a crapbook to run windows or run some hackers delight like QEMU on an ARM processor means nothing if its not commercially viable.

  40. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson its worse at the moment a lot of cases Microsoft gets zero dollars for the installed copy of Windows yet the OEM is charging 100 dollars extra for the pain in the but having windows installed.

    Putting product keys in bios and making custom install images cost a lot of time. It surprising how many chrome-books turn out to be the exact same install image that the OEM did not have to make.

  41. oiaohm says:

    Interesting, Can you provide the cite for the shipping commercial product that would need to exist for this?
    Oldfart why does everything have to be commercial.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Bochs-on-Android
    The ability is in the Android OS to run emulators of this level lack of CPU power has been a problem.

    Yes people have been install Windows on Android devices or using Cloud services to provide Windows to Android or enterprise internal thin-terminal solutions.

    People are working around the legacy application problem. Get around the legacy interface problem is why docks have appeared.

    oldfart explain to me what stops the “20+ years of existing software” from being thin-client/cloud services worked around. For business really not much. Then go over to archive.org and notice they have old dos games running in web-browser. There comes a point where legacy has been passed to far by technology advances to pose a problem any more.

    But, for those of us who see no obvious value to pissing into our personal $200 sandpit…

    It’s not going to be popular.
    You may not like it sales figures of chromebook devices are good.

    Who cares? It doesn’t run 20+ years of popular software. You may not care. Most people who buy desktop PCs do.
    DrLoser you are not aware that you can install virtual machines in chrome OS. Dosbox is native chrome. So if an application is older than 20 years old and you want to run it inside chrome is possible using Dosbox. So only application 1995 or newer are tricky to run on a chromebook but not impossible. The boot from USB key makes this simpler.

    So it should not be 20+. DrLoser 20 years exactly.

    Now if you want in the last 20 years of Windows software on a Chromebook install a Linux that allows you to use QEMU to run Windows inside(does not work well unless you use a custom install due to VMX disable in default chrome os) or Wine on the chromebook or use thin-terminal solutions.

    http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices/running-virtual-machines-on-your-chromebook

    Yes boot from USB key allows boot up a Linux kernel with VMX enabled allowing QEMU/KVM to be able to run Windows at some from of speed.

    Yes it is impossible to directly install windows on chromebook and have to work. It not impossible to install Windows inside QEMU on Linux and have it work.

    You know how chromebooks are majority intel video hardware.
    http://www.linux-kvm.org/wiki/images/f/f3/01x08b-KVMGT-a.pdf

    Yep KVMGT is usable on them. Result is a Virtual machine running from a USB key on a majority of x86 chromebooks can get fairly major performance. 10 percent lower performance yet you have working keyboard and mouse. I think 10 percent performance loss for working keyboard and mouse is worth it.

    So if you are installing Windows on a x86 chromebook install Linux first then install Windows in a virtual machine. The fact you have installed Linux first you might as well try Wine. Mind you this is x86 laptops. Arm laptops fairly much try wine with qemu user-mode emulation.

    USB stick has advantages for schools and the like.

  42. DrLoser wrote, “It might cost $250 as opposed to $200, but, see, that $50 gets you (inter alia) a boot straight into Windows.”

    More errors here, I see. Let me fix that…
    “It might cost $300 as opposed to $200, but, see, that $100 gets you (inter alia) a boot straight into Hell.”

    There. I presume masochists prefer Wintel for such benefits. M$ may get ~$50 per licence but the retail markups bring it to ~$100. That’s about the only reason retailers used to like M$, but the problem is they have to make the sale and that’s getting to be difficult. Further, Hell is where bad people go, but M$ has created a space-worm that sucks good people right into the furnace, that other OS.

    I think it was about 10 years ago that most of the “normal” humans I met though M$ was the way to do IT. About the time I retired, I think 50% loved M$ (some strange fixation) and 50% hated M$. I think today, no one buys a Wintel PC unless they are particularly locked in. Some large businesses may fall into that category but a lot of individuals are not and they know it, thank Goodness. Perhaps my feeble efforts had a tiny bit to do with that but I think it was mainly M$, itself, that caused its downfall.

    M$ is like a tall building imploding. For a brief instant it seems OK after the legs have been cut out from under but M$ lost its legs when they shipped Vista and Android/Linux and ARM took to the field. The “positive feedback” is done. That noise we are hearing is the wind rushing in to fill the vacuum where M$ used to stand. Stock price is down ~10% lately. I guess the last investors have realized the emperor has no clothes. M$ has diversified just in time. Without that they would crash and burn.

  43. DrLoser wrote, “Who cares? It doesn’t run 20+ years of popular software. You may not care. Most people who buy desktop PCs do.”

    Nope. Just five years ago, people bought PCs to do e-mail or to write letters or to read the news or to check the weather. They don’t need Wintel to do that. They don’t need an x86-amd64 PC either. They know that. Android/Linux told them so.

    I can remember the first “IBM-compatible” PC that I bought. I used it to do e-mail, make a budget for a house I built and write a bunch of programmes in PASCAL, e.g. ballistics, and other utilities such as are now found in GNU/Linux distros. I never needed M$’s stuff to run that PC but that’s what came with it and I wasn’t aware (not much in the way of the Internet except bulletin-boards in those days) of any other alternatives but the too-expensive UNIX. I should have caught on to GNU/Linux ~7 years earlier than I did but it was better late than never.

    I don’t know anyone who owns a legacy PC that needs/wants anything not provided by GNU/Linux except perhaps PS and a fancier video-editor. So, it’s not “most” but “some”. Those most have quit buying PCs apparently. They’re buying smartphones mostly. They will do most of what they need done.

  44. DrLoser says:

    I’d agree, Robert. Some twits are just too funny to ignore.

    I’m grateful for the copious opportunities offered up on this thread, amongst many others.

  45. DrLoser says:

    I wouldn’t want you to feel left out, Dougie. I picked one of your four cites at random (we’ll make a Gish Galloper of you yet!): The Maryland School System.

    Now, you can either admit that this is a particularly feeble example of “Paying for promotion (Bribes) … [it] is the M$ way,” or you can enlighten us all with your specific reasoning.

    Either way, Dougie. Should be fun. I predict that you will duck the challenge, as usual,

  46. DrLoser says:

    A benchmark…

    And a wall of text worthy of Mr Oiaohm, Robert.

    Who cares? It doesn’t run 20+ years of popular software. You may not care. Most people who buy desktop PCs do.

  47. DrLoser says:

    Still does not change the fact that most of the chromebooks are windows incompatible. Ok that is developer mode. Yes means to USB boot is a change.

    You know what normal people do when they want a Windows notebook, oiaohm?

    They buy a Windows notebook.

    It might cost $250 as opposed to $200, but, see, that $50 gets you (inter alia) a boot straight into Windows. No pissing around with a USB stick. No issues with completely pointless bleeding-edge technology:

    Risk factor for borkage havoc: 8/10

    and

    Beaufort comments that the functionality has been added “to support installing and testing custom code on Chrome OS devices”, which is a posh way of saying “tinkering”.

    There’s nothing wrong, as a Linux enthusiast, with tinkering around on your own device.

    But, for those of us who see no obvious value to pissing into our personal $200 sandpit…

    It’s not going to be popular.[rp: I took the liberty of killing an extraneous <bold> tag]

  48. oldfart wrote, ” The Anemic ARM chips with their pitiful software base don’t stand a chance against 20+ years of existing software that solves real problems.”

    8 cores at 2.5gHz and lots of RAM is not anemic.

    ARM runs Android/Linux or GNU/Linux. Many millions are satisfied with that. Many millions can still learn about */Linux on ARM and use it joyfully. It’s called competition, oldfart. Get used to it. The free ride is over.

    A benchmark… I found this data for Blender running on x86 and ARM.
    The Exynos 5250 (2012) outperforms Intel Pentium D 805 (I know, from 2005) running a 95W CPU. The Exynos 5250 gets more operations per core per gHz @ 1.7gHz compared to the Intel chip’s 2.66gHz clock. The Exynos 5250 uses less than 2W. That’s three steps of Moore’s Law back. The more recent ARMed chips run at a much higher clock and run about 5 times faster throughput for a similar power consumption. They are built at 14nm v 32nm.

    So, for peak throughput the ARMed CPUs may be somewhat anemic but for the average user with an idling CPU they are wonderful, comparable throughput with much lower power consumption and lower cost. Considering price/performance, ARM is a winner. That’s why ~12billion devices were sold last year, about ~1billion smart thingies and ~11billion other gadgets. There are lots of places where lower power consumption and cost win. It’s not about anemia. The Core i5 can process 5 times what the Pentium D did but that doesn’t make Pentium D anemic. They were produced until 2008 and likely many are still operating. The new Cortex A-57 stuff has greatly improved throughput and combined with A-53 cores for lighter loads can run at just 75mW per core. They will be out in products competitive with my current PC (CPU ~95W) this year. So, there are few loads the ARMed stuff cannot run reasonably well at a much lower price. The ASP of Intel CPUs is >$200. Even their Atoms cost a multiple of an ARMed CPU, yet deliver only comparable throughput at peak and essentially the same throughput on the typical load. Even an Intel Atom which is clearly comparable to ARM costs $40-$60 while ARM costs ~$10.

  49. oldfart says:

    “Oldfart This is 2014 method. Run a thin-client solution.

    Running a thin client/remote desktop solution not the same as what we have been discussing. Try again.

    “It is also possible to run windows on Android using a virtual machine but that again requires license.”

    Interesting, Can you provide the cite for the shipping commercial product that would need to exist for this?

  50. oiaohm says:

    http://www.gottabemobile.com/2014/06/22/how-to-run-windows-apps-on-android/
    Oldfart This is 2014 method. Run a thin-client solution. It is also possible to run windows on Android using a virtual machine but that again requires license.

    Reality the same options that were open to powerpc OS X users are open to Android users today. Yes the lack of CPU power in the ARM has been a problem but that is disappearing.

  51. oldfart says:

    ” They don’t have to do that.”

    Sure they do Robert Pogson. OEM’s and ISV’s want to make money and quite a bit of real money is still in x86 based Thingies of all sizes across a whole spectrum of uses. The Anemic ARM chips with their pitiful software base don’t stand a chance against 20+ years of existing software that solves real problems. To paraphrase one of you mantras, the world does not have to write its own software, they can simply license it and get the job done.

  52. ram wrote, “Mr. Pogson, needs to look at RECENT operating system support from major manufacturers”.

    I know. Of the two, Intel is an absolute angel but they were caught paying OEMs to drop AMD, clearly an anticompetitive act. The bulk of their chips are hair-driers. That may be OK for servers but it’s just silly for desktops/notebooks. Moore’s Law may have improved that situation but their architecture is so 1980s. I think ARM is superior in many ways: cost, efficiency… I know they have great technology but it’s wasted on x86-amd64. Imagine what they could ship if they produced ARMed CPUs in abundance.

    Both Intel and M$ are having to work for a living these days. Intel has diversified greatly but so has M$. I would like to see both of them gone from consumer PCs as long as they use monopolistic tactics. Consumers are the ones who have the least ability to dodge Wintel on retail shelves. That’s changing with ChromeBooks but even then Google and partners are shipping lots of Intel’s chips. They don’t have to do that.

  53. ram says:

    I don’t know why Mr. Pogson persists in calling it “Wintel” when Intel makes many devices, motherboards, and boxes that will not even run Microsoft operating system but will run Linux, or have Linux preinstalled. AMD, on the other hand, has not supplied any motherboard, or “box”, that will run Linux for over two years. It is AMD that is in bed with Microsoft, not Intel to which Microsoft is only a minor customer.

    Seriously, Mr. Pogson, needs to look at RECENT operating system support from major manufacturers. Intel, AMD, NVidia, are a good start.

  54. Deaf Spy wrote, “No need to type a single command.”

    Who mentioned “type”? In GNU/Linux the command can be a single click on an icon, typing or a command echoed periodically with no action by the user at all.

  55. oiaohm says:

    oldfart Yet standard Ubuntu and Android images run on chromebooks without issue.

    If you are after a Windows machine a chromebook is not for you. But if you are after something else they can be fine.

  56. oldfart says:

    “oldfart basically there is no reason to make crap up. I can pull in many examples of people attempting to install windows on Chromebooks and hitting all the same issues.”

    None of you examples mean much to me, other than proving what I already have noticed. Crapbooks are just that – Crap.

    Thanks for the help proving my point sir.

  57. oiaohm says:

    oldfart its not that chromebooks are cheaply made. The corebios image google uses does not include all the extras Windows expects in a BIOS and lack of drivers.

    http://community.acer.com/t5/Chromebook/GUIDE-Install-Windows-8-on-the-Acer-C720/td-p/217491

    Yep Windows 8.1 on a Acer C720 completely suxs.

    Yes all the nightmares of installing Linux on random hardware happens to anyone fool hardy enough to install Windows on chromebooks.

    The idea that they cannot perform is so bogus its not funny.

    oldfart basically there is no reason to make crap up. I can pull in many examples of people attempting to install windows on Chromebooks and hitting all the same issues.
    Lack of drivers being number 1. Right down to key ones like keyboard and mouse drivers. Chromebooks happen to start up their keyboard and trackpad different to a normal PC. Yes the best outcome out of installing windows on a chromebook is running perfect except for the keyboard and trackpad. Basically worthless as a laptop without those.

  58. oldfart says:

    “Still does not change the fact that most of the chromebooks are windows incompatible. Ok that is developer mode. Yes means to USB boot is a change.”

    In short, your “windows compatibility” is only reached with a hack that few userswill be likely to execute. And lets just say for the sake of argument that one forces windows on a crapbook. Given the fact that Crapbooks are so cheaply made its not hard to imagine that all one will have at the end if the process is a dog slow windows machine with limited expansion.

  59. dougman says:

    Windows Updates of late, cause more problems than malware.

    Windows Store Apps?? Full of scammers!

    http://bgr.com/2014/08/18/microsoft-windows-store-scam-apps/

    http://www.howtogeek.com/194993/the-windows-store-is-a-cesspool-of-scams-why-doesnt-microsoft-care/

    Last I heard, M$ was paying devs to create apps for its store, imagine that!

  60. Deaf Spy says:

    â—¾GNU/Linux systems typically update all software with a single command, unlike that other OS which requires something different for the OS and each non-FREE application.
    Old news. Windows Store Apps are updated by default automatically. No need to type a single command.

    As for the old apps, people don’t care. They either auto-update themselves, or require that you actually buy the new version. Which, as the industry shows, customers are happy to do.

  61. oiaohm says:

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2390180/google-will-now-allow-android-and-linux-usb-boot-on-chromebooks
    Still does not change the fact that most of the chromebooks are windows incompatible. Ok that is developer mode. Yes means to USB boot is a change.

  62. DrLoser says:

    Re: run Android apps natively on a Chromebook

    Eh???

    Your cite, Dougie.

    I’m not in the habit of chasing down random rabbit-holes.

    Get it right the first time.

  63. DrLoser says:

    M$ will actually have to pay people to ship and to sell Wintel. That’s not a long term business plan. That’s an emergency measure.

    I would characterise it as a snare and a delusion, Robert — because you have no evidence of any such thing whatsoever.

    I suggest we leave this proposition of yours to one side until the M$ quarterly results (specifically, those for the Client Division) arrive.

  64. DrLoser says:

    Hark!…I hear a giant sucking sound!

    I wouldn’t go as far as that, Dougie. I think it’s a jolly good idea to host a remote Android development system on a Chromebook. After all, if all you’re developing is fart apps, you don’t really need the resources of a proper development machine, do you?

    Oh, you were thinking that this means you will be able to run Android apps natively on a Chromebook! Have you considered reading to the bottom of the page? It works wonders for overall comprehension.

  65. dougman says:

    “Best Windows Yet!”…”Best Windows Ever!”..These sayings are the biggest joke on mankind

    Windows 10 is like a cheap date. One needs to remember, that it is a long way from a whiz bang demo to actually working in real world.

    http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/gotchas-windows-10-build-9926-known-and-unknown

    “The real question on my mind is whether Windows 10 will finally address a problem that has plagued pretty much every Windows OS since at least 95: the decay of the system over time. As you add and remove apps, as Windows writes more and more temporary and junk files, over time, a system just slows down.

    I’m sure many of you have had the experience of taking a five-year-old PC, wiping it clean, putting the exact same OS on as it had before, and the PC is reborn, running several times faster than it did before the wipe. It’s the same hardware, same OS, but yet it’s so fast.”

    http://www.networkworld.com/article/2690354/microsoft-subnet/will-windows-10-address-the-operating-systems-biggest-weakness.html

  66. lpbbear says:

    It was a stupid article. One of those “I’m going to say this but wait a sec….I really mean the opposite….but……muhahahahaha…..do I?” type of article. A total waste of time to read it.

    Same article in different versions and different “clever” authors has been published several times over the years with the same silly prediction. Despite those predictions the Linux desktop is still here and thriving.

Leave a Reply