Charlie

JeSuisCharlie

Even my broken French can read that as “I am Charlie”, a wave of support for the outrageous French magazine raided by murdering scum today. If ever there was proof that a right to “carry” is needed in today’s society it is the fact that 2 or 3 murdering scum were able to rush police and get into the offices of the internationally-threatened magazine and do systematic killing while citizens stood by doing nothing but recording the havoc on their smartphones. One or two citizens with rifles or shotguns could have made a real difference because they had the cover of buildings. Police riding up in shiny white cars made easy targets.

Whatever, the news is that the French have an idea who the culprits are and are hot on the trail. There may be another attack in progress. This time the trap will spring shut on these bastards but nothing can undo the damage they have done. Nothing can prevent surprise attacks but their effects could be greatly reduced if a significant number of citizens were allowed to keep and bear firearms in a safe but handy manner. Instead, governments have expended great effort to keep firearms out of the hands of citizens while allowing the bad guys to terrorize whole nations. France, for instance, has a law forbidding citizens from even owning a firearm of a kind that has been used for military purposes. Yet, these bastards were allowed to roam freely with AK-47/Kalshnikov assault rifles and do great harm. That’s just not right and it’s so easily solved. Require every citizen to take firearms training and give a tax break to good guys who agree to take refresher courses/practise and keep a decent firearm and ammunition handy. There aren’t enough soldiers and police to protect citizens so citizens should be encouraged to protect themselves. France should surely know that with how their citizens damaged the German war-effort during the occupation in WW II. Firearms in the hands of good people do good works. Today, they might have saved several lives.

See Terrorists on the loose after Paris attack

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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18 Responses to Charlie

  1. oiaohm says:

    If its lighter than 150 KG must be secured to two independent things.
    You most likely missed how this applies.
    Robert Pogson
    Many of our hunters are nomadic for weeks at a time. They travel hundreds of miles with snowmobiles. They can’t carry a “container” that heavy.

    How heavy is a snowmobile. From what I can see 200+ kg so over the 150KG requirement. So a cabinet built into it will pass the Australian regulation. Yes this is used in the Australian snowfields. Nothing in the Australian regulations says a storage cabinet cannot have an engine. Robert Pogson Australians are creative.

    They can’t carry a “container” that heavy.
    I understand you are not Australian. Cabinet has very broad meanings by Australian logic. We have Cabinets that are part of vehicles. Problem lot of overseas people don’t understand is the weight of the Cabinet when built into a vehicles by Australian logic is the complete vehicle. So a 200 KG vehicle + 1 kg container connected forever becomes a 201KG Cabinet.

    For field hunts there is a container for on back. Its less than 1 kg. How does it get around the regulation. Cables to allow it to bound to trees or other unmovable objects when you take it off so meeting the bound to two independent items requirement.

    Australian wild life like Dingos are also curious little beasts they will sneak into camp and nick stuff not secured. So a gun you left unsecured by morning could be down right anywhere. Due to the fact down right anywhere there might be not possible that you ever find it. How unsecured gun could be found is after its triggered somehow killing someone if it was left loaded.

    The natives here also understood that our local animals are pricks. So rope and hanging stuff from trees and so on so they still had their stuff in the morning. Hanging a gun from a tree is not exactly a good idea. Its also from ways natives secured fire-sticks and other highly important items where the box with cables to bind to trees and other things comes from.

    Robert Pogson I have no experience with bears and cougars. I only have experience with Australian wild life. I guess wolves are not like Australian Dingos. Please note Dingos don’t always care if the item is food or not they will take things to be toys. Ammo belt ending up in camp fire is another nightmare a Dingo can trigger. Yes secure guns and secure ammo if you expect to wake up in morning and still have your weapons in Australia.

  2. oiaohm wrote, “That is insane Australia says locked cabinet or container. If not bolted/secured to something must have weight of atleast 150KG. If its lighter than 150 KG must be secured to two independent things.”

    That is absolutely ridiculous. Many of our hunters are nomadic for weeks at a time. They travel hundreds of miles with snowmobiles. They can’t carry a “container” that heavy. Even I have camped out on the land overnight. It’s part of our constitution that aboriginal people shall be allowed to hunt and the modern interpretation is “with firearms”. Such regulations are incompatible with that. As far as I know, no court here has dinged a hunter for unsafe storage of a firearm when they were deep in the bush. It’s just not unsafe and people have a right to life. Requiring storage while exposed to bears and cougars and remote from other food than game is insane. Our provincial laws permit hunting without a licence for subsistence hunters.

  3. ram says:

    oiaohm is right about gun storage in Australia. Alot of our wildlife is really smart and likes to play with mechanical mechanisms. Even most here criminals keep their illegal firearms locked up in a secure containers.

  4. oiaohm says:

    http://www.crimtrac.gov.au/our_services/FirearmServices.html
    Robert Pogson Australia does have a database of firearms.

    Few things it sane. 1 how the database operates is not written into law it is about having useful information. A new weapon will be logged into the database.

    Requiring a firearm to be in a locked room has no meaning in a one-room unlocked shack.
    That is insane Australia says locked cabinet or container. If not bolted/secured to something must have weight of atleast 150KG. If its lighter than 150 KG must be secured to two independent things. Good thing is the 150KG mass can be sand/dirt. Put gun safe in place fill the weights. Need to move it drain the weights. Of course the means to fill and drain the weights has to be locked inside the storage container.

    Australia we don’t have bears. Our biggest predictor is salt water crocodile. So a pistol does.

    There is a reason why Trigger locks are not suitable in Australia. A child a long time ago tried to hammer something in with a gun with a trigger lock you can guess how that turned out when the gun fired because the firing pin was unstable in gun. Since then trigger locks are fairly much outlawed as a storage solution since they are not protecting the gun from external forces so are really not insuring the gun does not fire.

    Wearing a gun you act as the impact absorber for the gun so reducing probability of impact discharge.

    North Canada question is there really a need for a riffle to protect self or will a pistol in fact do.

    The fact we don’t want kids dieing in some areas is why 12 year olds can get gun licenses. There is no particular requirement what a gunsafe has to look like. Yes old fridge could be a gun safe as long as it meets the requirements.

    There firearms are essentially always in use even when leaning in the corner of the shack.
    I suppose you don’t have the problem of possum and other small creatures lose in shack knocking the guns over. Leaning gun in the corner is a great way to die from wild life interference with gun in Australia.

    Here is wear or lock way. It is kinda a worth while question if the Australian style of wear or lock way would work in those conditions.

    Australian gun handling and storage is all based around real cases of what has resulted in people getting shot or unable to access gun when they have need to. Yes if you are wearing the gun its also very had to end up in an event that the nasty wild life has got between you and where the gun is stored. Remember we have some of the most poisons snakes and other creatures.

    I really don’t see how leaving gun standing on conner of shack is being safe when its forcing kid to run back to shack to access gun. Most creatures are faster than humans.

  5. oiaohm wrote, “1200 pages what the hell did the Canada law writers do.”

    They allowed gun-haters and lawyers to write the law and then had to supply endless coats of paint in the regulations to try to fix the unfixable. I kid you not. The theory behind the registrations for instance was that if you knew X number of things about a firearm you could uniquely identify it. They spent $billions on that only to prove that theory wrong. I have a copy of the redacted database and there were sometimes 20 descriptions of some feature of popular firearms, things like calibre or make or model. The registry was so full of errors and inconsistencies it could never be used in court. It was tried many times and did not stand the test. Then there are the storage requirements which might make some little sense in a home in Toronto but none at all in the North or some remote bush. For instance, many homes in the North have no locks at all… Requiring a firearm to be in a locked room has no meaning in a one-room unlocked shack. Unlocked doors are a necessity of life there. Do you want your kids to die because they can’t find the key? Firearms are a necessity of life there. Requiring trigger-locks endangers life when bears or wolves drop by. There firearms are essentially always in use even when leaning in the corner of the shack. The law assumes firearms are a luxury for the rich not a tool for the poor.

  6. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson
    It’s insane to consider firearms training without safety being the first and ever-present topic.
    Safety is there as a topic in the Australian firearms training. Just none of the nasty pictures of what can go wrong.

    This is something highly scary.
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/junior-gun-licence-numbers-revealed/story-fni0fit3-1226876156789?nk=c6b797dd2c303e19dfd0febb392f2648

    Yes a 12 year old can sit the Australian Firearm License test. Robert Pogson welcome to nasty problem. Most of the nasty good leason teaching photos about how firearms can go wrong cannot be legally shown to a 12 year old.

    Yes Australian firearm training suxs because Censorship so you don’t give children nightmares or make the vomit. Yes good way to get the lesson of how much of a hazard a gun is.

    1200 pages what the hell did the Canada law writers do.

    Australia Firearm storage is 1 page in law brochure that is like 2 pages.
    Weapon classes for what type of license you need in law is 2 pages in brochure with descriptions and pictures 12.

    If you printed everything about firearms license that government gives. Every brochure, application form and the common law for a state/territory in Australia you would not get to 50 pages. The 8 states/territories you would be lucky to get to 500 pages.

    The official rules for firearm transport and storage was written in 1974 just enforcement was a bit lax. Yes in all those times the regulations for storage has not need to change 1 word.

    Robert Pogson I think the Canada law writer could take a card from Australian firmarm law writers. Yes the Australian requirements might be strict but it read less than 50 pages to know what you should and should not do by law completely.

    In fact semi-autos and bolt-actions have different magazine limits unless the same magazine fits both types of firearm.
    We have such limitations semi-auto Limit is 10 for a rim fire 5 for a shotgun and unlimited for a centre fire as long as you can make grounds. Centre fire semi-auto is type B license that is provide grounds why no other gun can be used and explain the clip/magazine size yes it common even after arguments for a Center fire to be 10.

    Bolt-action what ever magazine limit you like in Australia. Here it does pay to know what gun you pick up.

    If you are holding a semi-auto rim fire and one of your bolt-action rim fire takes a clip bigger than 10 and you have it on you this is an offense even if the clip will not fit. Basically take semi-auto rim fire all clips you take out of weapon storage has to be 10 or smaller.

    The 10 limit causes problems with a lot of pistols imported into Australia. Yes 16 shot clips that some pistols come with so have to have custom 10 only clips made. Note the offense is having the clip and gun so even having a 16 clip in pocket with no bullets in it.

    Semi-auto limit is about preventing panic shotting. Because it so easy to keep on pulling the trigger until no bullets are left.

    “magazine fits both types of firearm.” That kinda does apply here. If the magazine fits both types of firearm and you have both types of firearm it can be in your locked ammo storage. If you only have semi-auto only magazines/clips for semi-auto can be in ammo storage. In fact you should have you magazines ordered by gun.

    The thing here if you have a clip/magazine on your person the police officer is allowed to directly believe you will be attempting to use it. That it does not fit because its the wrong shape or whatever does not matter so 15 with a gun that only allows 10 you are screwed. So what ever you have on you is believed you are going to use.

    Australian law is fairly simple and straight forwards. Check and know what you pick up and everything is good.

    There are also rules about short barrels. It is a crime to shorten a barrel, but one can legally buy many kinds of firearms with ridiculously short barrels.
    With the cutting down of guns. That was in fact outlawed for any random person todo here in Australia before gun laws as a dangerous modification. Cases of barrels jamming and exploding due to metal slag from cutting. Australia you can order a shorter barrel for a gun from a licensed manufacturers you will be asked why and you better be able to explain it because you can fairly much bet they will inform police. Manufacturers must have the gear to safety test barrel. Yes manufacturer might cut down and machine and existing barrel to requirements but they have the gear to test that in the process they have not weakened it. Yes you want a shorter barrel order a shorter barrel.

  7. DrLoser wrote, “if the likes of Saudi Arabia (15 of 19 9/11 murderous lunatics) and other Gulf States were engaged in a serious attempt to, well, stop them allowing their citizens to fund Wahhabist fundamentalists across the world.”

    The Wahhabis help found the state of Saudi Arabia. They are entrenched. It would essentially cause a civil war to uproot them. Saudi Arabia keeps its own peace by buying everyone off. Ordinary folks want food, shelter, clothing, and money, lots of money. Oil takes care of that. Wahabbis get a say in running everything. I remember when they shut down the recreation centre at the hospital where I worked, calling it a den of sin. No one could even question the decision. Whatever their opinion is holds sway. I saw them beating women in the streets while claiming Islam puts women on a pedestal, yet no one sets them straight. Even educated, modern, well-travelled Saudis tolerate the Wahabbis because upsetting the apple-cart is punishable by death. There just isn’t any way to change that in the short term except by a civil or uncivil war and the world doesn’t want the flow of oil to be disturbed so nothing changes.

    The Wahabbis always reset change to zero by thumping on the Koran, even while the infrastructure has gone from a camel and robbery economy to high-tech and industrial. Change, if it does happen theocratically, will have to come from within from some trusted enlightened person. That system does not produce many of those. Their ultimate scholar can recite the Koran flawlessly and has no concept of men and women working together to make society better.

    At the same time, the government has little control over wealth once it leaves the country and rattles around in some Swiss bank or the trunk of a car/hold of a ship/plane.

    Besides oil there is another reason that no one wants to pressure the Saudis. The whole Middle East is a house of cards and any card pulled out can bring the house down. The Arab Spring was not allowed to accomplish much simply because the established order would rapidly crumble all over with any rapid changes anywhere. Darn. They have how many uncivil wars going now and folks are just trying to hold the lid on. USA and Europe invested a decade in Afghanistan and Iraq with almost nothing to show for it. No one wants the thing to melt down in the hope that something new and shiny will emerge.

    Folks in USA like to scold Saudis for being soft on terrorists but the Saudis regularly execute terrorist who operate in their homeland, hence the exportation. Meanwhile, USA props up tyrants in many countries which grow terrorists as an export in response. The world will be a better place when everyone consistently does the right thing but I doubt I will see that in my lifetime. Heck, the USA (and Canada) thinks it’s just fine if police murder everyone within 21 feet if the police get nervous. Even the stray bullets are not counted when the police empty their magazines into the streets. Who needs terrorists when the police terrorize the neighbourhood and don’t accept the chain of command?

  8. oiaohm wrote, ” Basically the Australian firearm course is practical skill training and a open book exam. Robert Pogson I think we had a different define of firearms training.”

    It’s insane to consider firearms training without safety being the first and ever-present topic. It takes only a fraction of a second to do irreparable harm with a firearm and only a second or two to prevent the harm. Training is excellent insurance and very worthwhile. All the rules in the world don’t make anyone safer. Here in Canada, the rules are no where near as stupid as Australia and yet they fill over 1200 pages. No one understands them all and many make no sense at all in the real world. e.g. in Canada there is mention of magazine capacity in the law and different rules in the regulations. In fact semi-autos and bolt-actions have different magazine limits unless the same magazine fits both types of firearm. The logical conclusion is that magazine capacities don’t matter in the law except that someone made up a rule. Does it make any sense at all that a 10 round magazine is allowed if there is a bolt-action firearm that accepts it but is not allowed if there is not? The rules are supposed to be about safety but how can it not matter for one particular pair of firearms and matter for all others? That’s not safety. That’s lawyers painting themselves into a corner and politicians not wanting to steal from their voters. There are also rules about short barrels. It is a crime to shorten a barrel, but one can legally buy many kinds of firearms with ridiculously short barrels. No one can understand nor explain how the rule makes anyone safer. Consider France where no one may own any kind of “military” firearm but terrorists have little trouble showing up with a bunch. How does that rule make citizens safer? What makes firearms safe is the user/owner, not some rule. Training the user/owner is the key, not onerous regulations.

  9. garry grant wrote, “Arming citizens does not make a safer city. If that was the case, Chicago wouldnt have 1000 murders per year.”

    It sure makes the armed citizens safer. Their neighbours too. Chicago is a city where only the bad guys have guns. That makes them ten times more likely to use them. Where citizens have the right to keep and bear arms, violence is way down. If it weren’t for all the messed up politics and lack of medicare, I would long ago have moved to USA just for the right to carry. I will be going to a pistol range this weekend after a long hiatus. I will be surrounded by armed folks and be quite comfortable, unlike going into the big city.

  10. garry grant says:

    Robert fails to understand taht there are two realities in canada, the urban and the rural one. I get the need for arms when you are in the prairie and your closest neighbour is 3km away. But arming people is not the solution and the urban warfare scenario sounds like it came from a teenager.
    Arming citizens does not make a safer city. If that was the case, Chicago wouldnt have 1000 murders per year.
    One thousand.
    Thats a societal problem not one that will be solved by having more guns. Unless you think the solution to US style warzones is bringing more guns into places like Chicago.

    As for Charlie Hebdo, the tragedy has brought a level of hypocrisy that is staggering and honestly makes me wanna puke.
    When they published cartoons (the danish ones which brought millions of brainwashed idiots to batshit level of crazy), they were NOT the feelgood little magazine everyone says they loved now.
    You had tens of thousands of Parisians protesting against it, you had many politicians there and abroad saying that they were fawning the flames of hatred and the ‘free press’ behaved like the money-first cowards that they are and censored themselves.
    To hear those same media and politicians laud Charlie and freedom of expression is nauseating.
    Even more so since France has been going full blast into stopping French comic Dieudonne from playing across the country in his sold out tours because he too insulted a religious groups of nutjobs who instead of killing you will sue your ass off, the jews. The western version of what happened in this long saga is another example of how the press misrepresents stories to their benefit.
    To hear the government that has been running a campaign to silence a popular comic by writing laws and bending others specifically for him talk about freedom of expression is gross. (of course, its ok to insult muslims, not so for jews because you know… special)

    And finally, as a canadian Im even more disgusted at the hypocrisy the media has towards ‘attack on freedom of expression’ since this country murdered journalists because they didnt like the way they reported things (but just like our kidnapping of the Haitian president in 2004 something our press has chosen to totally forget because we dont deal well with inner conflict so we pretend that all the shitty things our country does doesnt exist because hey! were not as bad as those blood thirsty yanks so that makes us better.)
    When Canada and NATO were bombing yugosvlaivia (in support of the terrorist group teh CIA had called the previous year, the biggest and best armed terror group in teh world…all US funded of course) in 1999, they attacked the local version of CBC, the state TV and killed around 20 journalists and staff.
    Did our free press cry out murder? of course not. they repeated word for word the PR releases of liars and criminals who justified the bombings by saying that those journalists were carrying propaganda (anything your site doesnt support is propaganda) out and had to be silenced. Then they did the blame the rape victim bit and blamed the victims for being in the building because they knew it was a target.

    To repeat: they murdered foreign journalists because they didnt like what they were saying (can you imagine the gall of being bombed for 3-4months and NOT repeating the NATO PR world for word?) and then blamed them for it.
    The canadian press just stood there and said nothing since none probably even heard of Voltaire.

    So please dont make me laugh with support for the murder of the Charlie
    cartoonists. Our government did the same thing: I dont agree with what you say, therefore I have the right to kill you.

    You gun lovers are weird. We have every car in the country registered, we have every dog sold in the province registered, we have 1.000,000 soccer players all registered but having a way of knowing how many guns are out there is something that offends you.

    as for:
    >It might be a teeny weeny bit more useful if the likes of Saudi Arabia (15 of 19 9/11 >murderous lunatics) and other Gulf States were engaged in a serious attempt to, well, >stop them allowing their citizens to fund Wahhabist fundamentalists across the

    Guarantee you that if simply the US stopped arming and training and using terrorists for their own uses (Bin Laden was ‘created’ to fight the russkies in Afghanistan, then he was useful in the Balkans until he useful one more time as a figurehead for evil).
    Maybe read a bit more than the state sponsored brainwashing that even Chinese wouldnt believe. The US uses countries like Saudi Arabia as proxies to these terror groups. The US arms and train them (and every few years you ahve blowback like the newly created bogeymen, ISIL). You can be a wanted terrorist by INTERPOL yet have cafe au lait with a US Sec of State because thats the reality of the business:
    the enemy of my enemy is somewhat my friend (until we dont need him or they turn against us).
    To believe that the solution is getting some of these arab countries to stop arming terrorists shows a total lack of understanding of who controls who (and CNN isnt ever going to explain this to you)
    The US has used terror groups for their uses for a long time and still to this day.
    What? You think those Syrian and Lybians headchopppers just appeared in a vacuum?

  11. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson
    Any “over-confidence in guns” was beaten out of us when I took the course 45 years ago by a bunch of gruesome images of accident-victims.
    None those images are in the Australian firmarms course. Basically the Australian firearm course is practical skill training and a open book exam. Robert Pogson I think we had a different define of firearms training.

    Those gruesome images are in the security offices course a long with hand to hand. At this point it should become very clear why anyone who is not a security officer or higher trained is not allowed a gun in public in Australia. The big thing hand to hand training teachers is even if you have a gun you can be killed by it so any idea of using a gun in a crime drops. Really I think basic hand to hand should be mandatory in all schools. Basic hand to hand teaches that a gun and a knife can be hazard to the holder just as much as those around them.

    Education is a big part. Correct transport and storage policies enforced by law and custom is another. Like the your example of only loading a gun when it is needed that does save lives. Security offices need guns loaded so those must be in holsters. 100 percent never a loaded gun that a person is not carriering.

    Correct Australian storage rules and transport rules for guns not in a person hand or on their body is have bolts of rifles in one locked area, Ammo in another locked area and main part of gun in another. So 3 keys to get a operational gun. Ok this might be over kill. Unloaded and locked away kinda critical. Yes the USA/movie example of sleeping with gun under pillow not legal here. Yes sleeping with a holster on might be unconformable but get over it at least this way you don’t have guns going off in the night.

    Most of the stuff that is criminal todo with a gun in Australia does not make any sense todo any how.

  12. DrLoser says:

    Always fun to watch you twisting an isolated case of Islamist maniacs with Kalashnikovs into a generalised proposition for the right to bear arms, Robert.

    It might be a teeny weeny bit more useful if the likes of Saudi Arabia (15 of 19 9/11 murderous lunatics) and other Gulf States were engaged in a serious attempt to, well, stop them allowing their citizens to fund Wahhabist fundamentalists across the world. But you’re not looking for solutions, are you? You’re just grinding your axe.

    On a side note, you obviously have never spent any length of time in an apartment block in Paris. Believe me, if you give these people free rein in gun purchase, the Rapture is going to look like kiddies playing with plastic spades in a back-yard sandpit.

  13. oiaohm wrote, “firearm training alone is worthless. It just builds over confidence in guns”.

    I thought Canada and Australia had more in common. Here, when my province introduced “hunter safety training”, hunting accidents dropped precipitously. Instead of youngsters copying the bad habits of their friends/relatives, every young hunter has to take a course (lasted 2 days in my day, now one day or even on-line…). That makes a world of difference with everyone having the knowledge even if they don’t all do the right thing.

    Any “over-confidence in guns” was beaten out of us when I took the course 45 years ago by a bunch of gruesome images of accident-victims. Some students actually vowed never to hunt again… One of the instructors actually told us he had quit hunting because he thought it too dangerous. It was before the courses started. Every year there were a bunch of casualties, even some deaths. Since the courses started multiple years pass between deaths. It’s that simple. Education works, probably better than any other law/regulation.

    When I went up north to teach, I was in a “lawless” land. People up there lived by hunting and safety was traditionally enforced. However drinking/violence/shooting are still a problem because people go crazy. Education does not help so directly there because of illiteracy and people not being in their right minds at times but the law has no effect then in any case. The practice, almost everywhere I went up north, was to load a firearm only just before shooting so that accidental discharges were eliminated. With hunting skill this puts the hunter at no disadvantage and carrying around or storing an unloaded firearm is quite safe. Most hunting accidents in the south relate to improper identification of the target and surroundings, and accidental discharges, both rare in the north. I had two somewhat unpleasant encounters with firearms in the north. They are informative: Once, at a Halloween bash, a local resident came dressed as a “mad trapper”, complete with an AR-15 strapped to his back. This was at a event in the school’s gym and no one batted an eyelash… The guy participated and left as usual. Down south this would have inspired lock-down and police… Another time, I was near the edge of town, picking mushrooms in a ravine. I heard someone shout and moments later a steady stream of shots with bullets passing over my head caused me to evacuate the ravine. It turned out the target-shooter had called out in the local language which I did not understand. I should have replied with “Hello” or something but did not. The shooter should have used a pile of gravel, convenient to his position, as a back-stop but did not. No harm done. These incidents show a completely different attitude to firearms from the urban south to the remote north but it’s the people in the south who are fearful of firearms when it’s the folks in the north who live with them daily.

  14. oiaohm says:

    ram I know of many tow trucks in Australia without a shotgun. RACQ/NRMA in fact forbids firarms unless you are a registered security officer. Yes the biggest provider of tow trucks in Australia does not have shotguns.

    So just call RACQ/NRMA road side assist and their will be no shotgun. Some RACQ personal are also license security officers so are packing a pistol.

    ram banned items always get in. But having them being an offense means they can be taken without requiring any other charge.

    Ram shotguns were removed from most Australian tow trucks before gun reform. Why there were many cases of driver shotting self so insurance companies would not insure tow trucks with shotguns.

    Australia has types of regulation the government and the insurance companies. Remember no insurance your car/truct become illegal.

    If you find a tow truck with a shotgun don’t use them. They don’t have insurance if anything goes wrong. Yes it part of the standard Australian insurance policy that all weapons have to be properly stored.

  15. ram says:

    With respect to oiaohm’s comments about “gun control” in Australia. I have observed combat firearms of all kinds are readily available in Australia. Yes, they are illegal, but gun control in Australia is about as effective as their ban on recreational narcotics — i.e. not at all. Both guns and narcotics are readily available, often from the same sources.

    Anti-tank weapons have been found at “biker gang” clubhouses, so much for banned weapons! Show me a tow truck anywhere in Australia that does not have a shotgun (illegal) behind the back seat. Bet you can’t find even one!

    Pervasive and systemic government and government agency corruption in Australia guarantees all bans on just about anything are totally ineffective. Despite, or perhaps because, of this Australia is still a nice place. The population, however, is very resistant to central government control. It shares that, and climate, with other tropical natural resource states.

  16. oiaohm says:

    Swiss have a different Prison and mental heath system as well. To be correct the swiss prison and mental health has a bigger effect than guns or no guns.

    http://theconversation.com/faking-waves-how-the-nra-and-pro-gun-americans-abuse-australian-crime-stats-11678

    Please note Australia no automatic/riffle weapons on street. Only parties who should have those are mil or police.

    AK-47/Kalshnikov assault rifles problem in Australia has simply been solved by outlawing them and having the means to pull that off. France has major boarder problems attempting to keep weapons out. Really most sport shooters can get away with single shot weapons.

    Please note I cannot even carry a pocket knife unto a public area. You have committed a crime as soon as you are packing with a permit.

    Most terror like things in Australia don’t get to spreed out everywhere. Carrying weapons here will straight up draw attention.

    Giving everyone guns has not stopped parties in the USA from doing drive by shotting and school shootings and so on.

    Australia has not had a school shotting. Neither has swiss with some of the highest gun own-ship.

    So why is swiss gun ownership so good. Get your swiss gun license takes 12 months of military service and this is mandatory service for everyone including hand to hand combat. So nutters who should not get guns get found mostly in the swiss process.

    Australia has removed automatic class of weapon from ease of access.

    Require every citizen to take firearms training and give a tax break to good guys who agree to take refresher courses/practise and keep a decent firearm and ammunition handy.
    Robert Pogson problem here is from the countries with the lowest gun crime rates we can tell that firearm training alone is worthless. It just builds over confidence in guns. The countries that have 12 months mil service to get gun license that include hand to hand have a lot lower rates of problems. If you are not willing to put mandatory 12 months service the other option is remove automatic weapons. Automatic weapons are designed for mass killing. It only takes 1 bullet to kill a target a single rogue party with automatic gun only needs another party with a single shot weapon to drop them.

    A security guard and police office can carry a pistol in public in Australia. Please remember they do have hand to hand training.

    Yes the USA constitution says everyone has the right to bear arms. I don’t think it says in there that you have to allow an untrained idiot have a gun.

    By the way its a offense here in Australia to give someone under 18 a gun cabinet key for any reason and yes guns not in use are meant to be locked away. Swiss it is 21 to have the gun cabinet key.

    Recent one with child shotting mother with own gun in the USA made me look it up only to find to my shock horror it was legal carrier method for a gun in the USA.

    Australia pistol has to be in a holster in public. A pistol is not allowed to be in a bag. So child could not have got hand on gun in Australia as mother should have been wearing it.

    Getting gun laws right is not easy. There are very limited choices that work.

    Giving everyone guns does not work. Giving everyone guns after 12 months mil training works. Removing automatic weapons works if you don’t want to force the 12 months mil training. Having strict transport and storage rules is another given.

  17. ram wrote, “Full military combat rifles in almost every home with the operators well trained and practiced in their use.”

    I don’t think that’s really necessary except if a general war breaks out. For the incident in Paris today, one man with a .22 rimfire bolt-action rifle could have stopped things cold. Police with handguns are at a real disadvantage against any bad guy with a rifle out in the open. Police have a chance inside a building but not against an assault rifle. A bad guy is at a real disadvantage being surrounded by good guys with any kind of rifle.

    The situation in Paris seems to have been in a mixed area, some apartments and some businesses. A city is 3D with lots of cover for good guys when bad guys show up. The bad guys just had to move quickly and the police were useless. With an armed citizenry, there would have been some depth to the defence and police would have had backup on hand. The chances of “friendly fire” accidents do increase if the bad guys dress as citizens however. In this case it was easy to tell the bad guys dressed in black killing people from the good guys dressed casually. BTW, the bad guys likely dressed in black to make it difficult to aim iron sights. Hence, the shotgun with buckshot… The guard inside the building had warning because of the shots outside and would have clobbered them with a semi-auto shotgun. Just let them get in the doorway and fire away. End of story. Some shotguns and ammunition are designed for such use with shorter rounds so the magazine can hold more rounds and a shorter barrel because the range is so close and it’s handier but they require particular pump-action shotguns to ensure reliable feeding. That’s not much of an issue if lives depend on it and the shooter has practised.

  18. ram says:

    Yeah, the Swiss have that worked out. Full military combat rifles in almost every home with the operators well trained and practiced in their use.

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