More FUD Bites The Dust

Remember the “GNU/Linux costs more…” FUD from M$ and sycophants? Here’s what the French National Police found:
“Part of the TCO reduction comes in upfront costs: savings on licences and cost of licence access, and, when it comes to hardware purchasing, the force can buy desktops without an OS already installed, saving €100 or so per PC.

However, the savings aren’t just from software licences costs: the change has also meant a reduction in local tech support needed, while Canonical charges the organisation €1 per machine per year to provide support.”

Oh, another good one? Remember how ordinary users would never accept GNU/Linux because it was too different? Google and the French Police have lots of ordinary users. The organization offered migrants a new wide screen monitor and most of the resistance crumbled. People don’t like change but if you show them the advantages, it’s all good. On the other hand, what does M$ have to offer? More re-re-reboots and malware and perpetual licensing costs.

see 'It was a huge risk': How the end of XP support helped France's gendarmes embrace Ubuntu – fast.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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61 Responses to More FUD Bites The Dust

  1. Dr Loser wrote, “Go ahead and explain how Google lives and dies by the Four Freedoms. I’m all in favour of sticking by the rules.”

    Google distributes Android/Linux under a FLOSS licence. They distribute the source code but make it optional for the Android parts for users who modify and distribute. That’s an essential part of their business plan to have Android/Linux cover the globe, that users can make millions of smart thingies with no licensing hassles.

  2. Dr Loser wrote, “It is NOT permissible for a company that uses FOSS to be “proprietary.””

    That’s just place silly. Proprietary is about owning stuff. That’s perfectly compatible with FLOSS licences. ie. You can own some FLOSS application that you produce and still distribute it under a FLOSS licence. You can have ownership of the trademark and under copyright law, the code and modifications that are your contributions. Keeping those things secret is another matter. If you distribute with a FLOSS licence you cannot do that. Still again, a company can have two products, one FLOSS and one non-FLOSS and distribute both. Using FLOSS or non-FLOSS is entirely a private matter. Internal use is provided by FLOSS licences and modifications used internally don’t have to be published. Considering the widespread use of FLOSS in business, almost every large business uses FLOSS internally and a smaller number distribute FLOSS.

  3. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser the world is not black and white its shades of grey. So sections of Google operations are FOSS sections are not.

    Dr Loser if you read GPL it dies not in fact promise the 4 freedoms not at least how most trolls want to read the 4 freedoms.

    4 freedoms are about looking after end users. Not about looking after the health of the upstream projects.

    –It is NOT permissible for a company that uses FOSS to be “proprietary.”–
    This is a troll lie. FOSS is not 100 percent viral. If it not permissible for a company that uses FOSS to be “proprietary”. Then Microsoft is a FOSS company. ASP.Net code base is in fact open source along with many other things Microsoft uses.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software

    There are more than 1 company that does closed source extensions to FOSS products.

    The reality is some companies are duel. Google is sometimes more FOSS and sometime more Proprietary focused.

    In fact a majority of the software companies people would refer to as Proprietary companies have a percentage FOSS.

    http://www.sirgroane.net/google-page-rank/ Page rank google has it out there along with documentation on how the work out there ratings.

    Dr Loser bing on the other hand as far as I can find does not have public document listing how they rank there search results.

  4. dougman says:

    BING??? Who in the hell uses Bing?? Nice knowing that you wasted two-and-a-half years of your life on something that sucks. Just think, in a few years time M$ will just ditch it anyways.

    Google has become synonymous with searching. When someone asks you a question and you do not know, the standard technical vernacular response is “Lets Google It!”….. and thats branding!

    You never ever hear anyone say, “Dude, let’s Bing that!!”…. BING sounds and IS GAY.

    See for yourself: http://www.bing-vs-google.com/?q=Linux

    http://www.bing-vs-google.com/?q=Windows+8

    In both cases, Google wins hands down with more entries.

    Even entrepreneur.com agrees: http://www.entrepreneur.com/blog/224639

  5. Dr Loser says:

    Oh, and one more thing, oiaohm.

    The the maths that works out there search results. They are in public white papers for review by other maths people.

    Really? How fascinating. I look forward to your incontinent googling on this matter.

    I’ve just come off a two and a half year contract with Bing, and I’ve spent rather more time with “maths people” than you have spent with them.

    Here’s a bit of news for you: the actual maths involved in machine learning is not a Google thing and not a Bing thing. It’s just maths. It’s been around and in the public domain for about twenty years or more.

    So what exactly are you blithering on about?

  6. Dr Loser says:

    Dr Loser google is in fact both a proprietary company and a FOSS company.

    I think you mistake “commercial” for “proprietary” here, oiaohm. It is permissible for a company that uses FOSS to be “commercial.”

    It is NOT permissible for a company that uses FOSS to be “proprietary.”

    They have split brain.

    Well, somebody around here certainly does.

  7. Dr Loser says:

    The reality is if google had altered the scheduler or something else core like that you would see a upstream push.

    You have a novel interpretation of “reality,” oiaohm. To which wavelength do I have to tune my tin-foil hat, before I can grok this “reality?”

    The reality, as always, is the Four Freedoms promised by the GPL.

    Go ahead and explain how Google lives and dies by the Four Freedoms. I’m all in favour of sticking by the rules.

  8. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser google is in fact both a proprietary company and a FOSS company. They have split brain. Google coders can spend up to 20 percent of their time not working on google projects but outside FOSS projects.

    Dr Loser you need to read GPL more carefully.

    You are only required to give the source code of GPL products to your own users.

    So internal versions of Linux only have to give source to internal staff. GPLv3 just means you cannot prevent your staff from giving to other parties.

    Dr Loser GPL follows the ideal of security. Yes your are allowed security by obscurity when using GPL. Just you are not allowed todo that to other parties.

    Dr Loser you have to notice google behavour over the years. The Longer they have used Linux the more they have learnt custom internal alterations hurt. Even twitter these days runs a big github site of stuff they are using.

    The reality is if google had altered the scheduler or something else core like that you would see a upstream push.

    Dr Loser google has a lot of secrets yes. Google also does not have a lot of secrets. The the maths that works out there search results. They are in public white papers for review by other maths people.

    Google biggest secret is not secrets the the volume of resources they have spent on stuff. Collected data over a very long time is very hard to attempt to replace over night.

    Google is trying not to roll their own kernels. Same with every other major company out there. Short term they do.

    Same with custom alterations to DB. You will see google doing upstream pushes.

    Same bug hits anyone making custom versions. Upstream gets a security patch your downstream patch does not apply properly hell disaster.

    Basically its costs large companies like google millions every year due to what they have customised from upstream.

    FOSS is no free lunch. So yes Google saves money once they have there alterations upstream. Same with every company using Open Source.

    Merging Android kernel modifications with Mainline Linux kernel was in fact started by Google.

    Its the hard thing to get. BSD does not give your staff the right to leak the source. The reason why GPL is not liked in some companies.

  9. bw wrote, “a fiscal first-quarter profit of $5.24 billion, or 62 cents a share, on revenue of $18.53 billion.”

    There’s nothing wrong with a business making money. M$ is becoming a normal business competing in the market instead of getting a bye. They are down 22% in OEM revenue by the way while PC units shipped were down much less than 22%… That’s about $1 billion. M$ did make up that revenue by selling more to businesses but even there the “unearned revenue” was down $2billion from the previous quarter. Businesses are not wanting to write any more blank checks. The consumers at least are seeing choices and taking them.

  10. dougman says:

    Loser cannot find the “free” Windows 8.1 LOL….. sux to be you buddy!

  11. Dr Loser says:

    Bushnell explained that “Goobuntu is simply a light skin over standard Ubuntu.” In particular, Google uses the latest long term support (LTS) of Ubuntu. That means that if you download a copy of the latest version of Ubuntu, 12.04.1, you will, for most practical purposes, be running Goobuntu.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, Robert, but there’s nothing in GPL3 that allows you to make such fine distinctions.

    For all practical purposes, you might as well be …

    For all the practical purposes I can imagine, you’re not.

    And not only are you not running it (which would be an appropriate gift back to the community): you cannot even examine or modify it.

    So, that’s three of the Four Freedoms down the drain. Let’s just say I have this great idea to build off the Goobuntu scheduler (random pick there) and I believe I can make it twice as efficient, and it will run on chips the size of gnats’ testicles.

    How, short of applying to work for a rather gigantic and proprietary company (Google), am I supposed to deliver this great boon to mankind?

    In this case, I am afraid, Richard Stallman is absolutely correct. And, sadly, Robert, you are on the wrong side.

  12. Dr Loser wrote, “where can I go to download Goobuntu?”

    “Bushnell explained that “Goobuntu is simply a light skin over standard Ubuntu.” In particular, Google uses the latest long term support (LTS) of Ubuntu. That means that if you download a copy of the latest version of Ubuntu, 12.04.1, you will, for most practical purposes, be running Goobuntu.”

  13. Dr Loser says:

    Ah, joe, joe, joe. I admire the starry-eyed idealism, even as I doubt you have ever made a single use of kali in your life. (Quick! What’s the most important package on kali for your business work? No need to choose one: list five or ten if you want!)

    What’s interesting about these companies is almost all them take advantage of the nature of free software.

    I don’t think anybody is going to disagree that various large corporations “take advantage” of FOSS. In many ways, that’s the point. Why pay if you have willing indoctrinated slaves to write the stuff for free?

    Most of them don’t run vanilla distros. They roll their own kernels, modify DBs like MySQL to their purposes, and other such things.

    Indeed so. Tell me, joe, where can I go to download Goobuntu? I understand it has been “modified for Google’s own purposes.”

    I don’t want a vanilla distro. I want the bestest ever! With chockie chips and stuff!

    With proprietary software, you are at the mercy of the proprietary vendor.

    (Misspellings corrected. Oddly enough, they even show up in this comment box.)

    Does that nonsense actually mean anything? If so, what?

  14. Dr Loser says:

    By the way, Robert, if Microsoft are indeed “giving away” Windows 8.1, I’d appreciate a link to the download.

    Last time I checked, the damn thing costs $100. Now, I do “free as in speech” for a living, but on the whole I’d like “free as in beer” for domestic purposes.

  15. bw says:

    Who was it that said

    “I predict the client division will be down ~$1billion from its usual $4billion per quarter. A combination of down 10% for shipments of legacy PCs, 10% down because GNU/Linux is taking off and down 5% for the fact that “8″ isn’t selling and they are having to give away “8.1″ all mean the business is down a lot. There could be more for the stupid shutdown of USAian government although that might not hit the quarter to be announced. Are they at the tipping point where servers and office suites are tanking with the decline in desktop business? Perhaps not but that will come sooner or later and then there will be more rounds of layoffs as M$ tries to keep up the earnings per share. What’s looming is that “7″ is becoming the new XP and it might be another decade before some businesses refresh their OS. How many are paying for “software assurance”extortion now? What’s your prediction, bw?”

    ????????

    SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Microsoft Corp. /quotes/zigman/20493/quotes/nls/msft MSFT +5.87% on Thursday reported a fiscal first-quarter profit of $5.24 billion, or 62 cents a share, on revenue of $18.53 billion. During the year-ago period, Microsoft earned $4.7 billion, or 53 cents a share, on $16 billion in sales. Analysts surveyed by FactSet had forecast Microsoft to earn 54 cents a share on $17.8 billion in revenue. Microsoft shares rose almost 6% in after-hours trading following the release of its results.

  16. Joe says:

    bw,

    So I think we are in agreement on a lot of things. I don’t much else to argue about.

  17. bw says:

    ignoring mobile, ignoring servers, ignoring super computers, ignoring networking equipment

    Almost correct. For one thing, you left out nuclear power plants, oil field exploration, coal mining, and automobile production. Also you implied they were not first in servers when they are. #1, ahead of Unix, ahead of IBM, and ahead of Linux. More than half the market in terms of money spent for servers world-wide and way, way ahead of everyone in terms of money spent for server OS world-wide.

    Unfortunately for us all, Microsoft cannot be all things to everyone. It is enough to dominate the personal computer and corporate server world. They have some small flyers taken in phones and tablets, but it is not likely that they will ever dominate there. It could happen, but I am not holding my breath.

    The Windows product lines along with a few billion in profits from Xbox are plenty for any one company to master.

  18. Joe wrote, ” Their name was MySpace.”

    Yep. They laid off staff instead of M$, though. They are just a shadow of their former self, right up there with Google at one point. Paying again and again for permission to run hardware you own is just not smart and it’s really stupid when the business expands. Major costs are hardware, electricity and that damned software. Life is so much simpler with GNU/Linux because you can use the hardware optimally and control the other two costs rather than scraping by. This is another example of slavery to M$. It renders business uncompetitive against businesses who use GNU/Linux which is just about everyone.

  19. oiaohm says:

    bw apparently you did not read Microsoft 2013 annual report completely. Go to the Windows division section. Find out that 65 percent of windows income depends on OEM’s. Then find out over all income has dropped.

    SEC reports are not suggesting a company in perfect location.

  20. Joe says:

    Every day afterward, so far anyway, the sun has come up as usual and Microsoft remains the market leader in all respects.

    And by all respects, you mean ignoring mobile, ignoring servers, ignoring super computers, ignoring networking equipment. Oh wait, you ignoring EVERYTHING except for a single category of computer that is for all intends and purposes, in a sharp decline. Yes, Micro$oft is the market leader in desktops and nothing else. Yes, even if they continue to stay the market leader in desktops, that’s becoming increasingly irrelevent. That’s why they are NO longer, by almost any measure, the market leader in the technology industry anymore.

    Sure they are making money. But they are not a market leader anymore. Not even close. They are a market follower. And they are even pretty damn bad at that, if their “devices and services” marketshare is to be believed.

  21. Joe says:

    Linux is immaterial to the business success of these companies. They use Linux as a no-cost substitute for what would have been implemented with Unix had there been no alternative.

    What’s interesting about these companies is almost all them take advantage of the nature of free software. Most of them don’t run vanilla distros. They roll their own kernels, modify DBs like MySQL to their purposes, and other such things. With properitary software, you are at the mercy of the properitary vendor. If you build your business on top of properitary software and end up hitting a wall, your entire business can fall apart just like that.

    I know of only one startup in recent memory that tried to roll with a Micro$oft stack. Their name was MySpace. It didn’t work out for them, because their software stack couldn’t keep up with the demands of the website. MySpace even had free of charge direct priority lines to Micro$oft engineers, something few companies can get, because Micro$oft wanted to prove that their stack can compete with GNU/Linux.

    Many people today, notable including the founders of Reddit, attribute Facebook’s success directly to their decision to use GNU/Linux and Free Software as the foundation of their technology stack. The MySpace disaster is fresh in the minds of everyone in Silicon Valley, which is why you RARELY see new companies touching Micro$oft stuff.

    Another interesting case study is the London Stock Exchange…

  22. dougman says:

    “most XP machines in any business setting will simply go to their grave via a crusher so that nothing can be gleaned from their hard drives. That is what the law enforcement folk here did with their old ToughBooks when they switched to newer models with Win7”

    How wasteful, these drives could have been yanked, nuked and the machine re-purposed. Linux would install wonderfully on them and give a few more years of service.

  23. dougman says:

    Windows = Malware point blank.

    Regarding malware, this was always an eye-opening article: http://macdailynews.com/2006/06/05/microsoft_ceo_ballmer_spends_two_days_unsuccessfully_trying_to_clean_win/

    “Among the problems was a program that automatically disabled any antivirus software. ‘This really opened our eyes to what goes on in the real world,’ Allchin told the audience. If the man at the top and a team of MS’s best engineers faced defeat, what chance do ordinary punters have of keeping their Windows PCs virus-free?”

    Fake Windows Updates:
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57447277-75/flame-virus-can-hijack-pcs-by-spoofing-windows-update/

    Windows 8 is no defense:
    http://labs.bitdefender.com/2012/11/newest-windows-version-runs-oldest-malware-still-in-wildcore/

    Scary, but with Linux I am not worried:
    http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/10/youre-infected-if-you-want-to-see-your-data-again-pay-us-300-in-bitcoins/

  24. bw says:

    There is no reason to believe user-activity is changing rapidly

    There isn’t even any reason to truly care about it. The network statistics are showing that the great majority of people use Windows to access the sites that the stats companies are monitoring. They seem to lose most of the activity for Android and continue to show very low activity for whatever they are calling “Linux”.

    It all makes no never mind to me. If you get the SEC reports filed by Microsoft that describe their business activities each quarter and year, you can get an idea about how they are doing. If you look, they are doing fabulous as the saying goes.

    You look for something to carp about and suggest they are in their cups, but like the battery bunny, they just seem to keep on beating their drum unchanged.

    Why not write of all the changes you have made to open source programs due to their “free” nature? Show us how all that has improved our lives and done things better and better over time. Tell us why we should be for FLOSS rather than just against Microsoft. Try to put some facts with numbers out there to be studied.

  25. bw says:

    I think a lot of XP machines will go to GNU/Linux, some virtual machine or thin client, and M$ will lose still more.

    I think that most XP machines in any business setting will simply go to their grave via a crusher so that nothing can be gleaned from their hard drives. That is what the law enforcement folk here did with their old ToughBooks when they switched to newer models with Win7.

  26. bw writing of XP installations, wrote, “What was the variable? If they were all XP, why is one installation better than another? The activities of the administrator, of course. “

    When I arrived there were no installation media, so all I had to use was what was already on hard drives nearly five years old. I deloused as best as I could but there may well have been malware in my images. That was out of my control. There was no money to buy new CDs.

    XP has been plagued by malware to which no admin had defences except pulling the plug. Malware can modify the software transparently making it impossible for the admin to fix it. BTW, there were a few systems that worked perfectly years later. They had not been connected to the LAN… I did not discover them until I had already switched the majority to GNU/Linux. There was no inventory of PCs when I arrived and I did not have a master key to explore the building…

  27. bw wrote, “Market share to me means the share of what is selling today. “

    There is no reason to believe user-activity is changing rapidly. Thus, page-views do indicate OS-share of units of installed-base. For the installed-base to change as rapidly as it is, the shipping volume, which bw cares about, must be dropping like a stone.

    e.g. M$ is losing a few percent each year with 1500 million legacy PCs in use, perhaps 50 million units each year are being converted to other operating systems not from M$ or are being manufactured with other operating systems. M$ sells perhaps 250 million licences per year when they used to sell 300 million or more. That’s what’s happening and M$’s drop is increasing rapidly. I think a lot of XP machines will go to GNU/Linux, some virtual machine or thin client, and M$ will lose still more. “8” is hurting them seriously. If “7” clogs up the installed-base for a decade, where will be the sales-volume a few years from now? Nearly zero. “7” is nearly maxed-out.

  28. bw says:

    bw’s continuous persistent denial of the obvious brings into question his judgment anyway

    I think just the opposite is true. I think that you frequently misrepresent obscure facts in order to declare Microsoft’s demise as a fait accompli. Every day afterward, so far anyway, the sun has come up as usual and Microsoft remains the market leader in all respects.

    I would think that you should just hold your horses until something truly tragic befalls Microsoft. You are like the kid who sneaks around hunting out hidden Christmas present packages way ahead of Christmas Eve. When the event finally comes, he is not at all thrilled, the anticipation having been used up long before.

    In another vein, don’t you feel a little lame in being so aggressively eager to hear bad news about Microsoft? It would be far better to find something to do that you can achieve by actions that you control and so have the satisfaction of actually doing something useful.

    You like to weld up old lawn mowers, I have seen, as well as work on lawns and gardens. Leave Microsoft to their own devices. You cannot do anything about it anyway.

  29. bw says:

    The client division is the one that enslaves hundreds of millions of ordinary people and does the most to mess with competition

    I think your message might be much better received by regular people if you lost the hyperbole. “Slavery”? You disrespect hordes of people who were actually enslaved throughout history. Your claim is based on OEMs paying Microsoft some 50 bucks or so instead of maintaining their own OS. Apple does that with FreeBSD and charges a lot more for their products than comparable capacity units from the Wintel side.

    What competition do you speak of? OS/2 was IBM’s entry a good while ago, but they charged too much initially and never got any traction in the market.

    “8″ will barely reach 10% share

    Share of what? The stat counters measure, at best, a share of user activity. That is largely dependent on the mixture in the installed base and isn’t really tied to any commerce.

    Market share to me means the share of what is selling today. That is where the money is and that is what companies evaluate when they make business decisions about what to do tomorrow. If an OEM examines the business sense of offering a Linux based PC, they are going to look at how many more they could sell than if they stayed with only offering Windows. That sort of decision is going to be made with many additional criteria appended such as volume commitments and geographical limits.

    Windows 8 has essentially 100% of the Wintel business today. The totals worldwide may be ebbing a bit, but that is due to many factors, including the rise of tablets and phones for many people’s needs.

  30. bw says:

    That one was the worst but the best of them…

    What was the variable? If they were all XP, why is one installation better than another? The activities of the administrator, of course.

    I have been using one version of Windows or another in a corporate setting for more than 20 years and none of these environments has ever been at all unreliable, much less as destructive as you relate. Businesses would never tolerate that, yet they almost universally continue to add Windows servers to their networks.

  31. lpbear wrote about respect.

    bw’s continuous persistent denial of the obvious brings into question his judgment anyway. Despite all downward trends of Wintel on the desktop bw paints a rosy picture of triumph for the platform. Wintel has been in decline since shortly after XP was released as far as I have seen. I switched to GNU/Linux because of Lose ‘9x. Many millions more have switched because of XP and apparently that was one of M$’s winners… Then there was Vista and “8” and the clear triumph of Android/Linux on small cheap computers and now intruding on the desktop. bw sounds more like Steve Ballmer than any independent free-thinker.

  32. lpbbear says:

    bLOwHARD’s giant ego runs away again: “You get no respect from me that way.”

    Clue to you clown. NO ONE HERE GIVES A SH*T ABOUT GETTING YOUR “RESPECT”!

  33. That Exploit Guy wrote, “In case anyone hasn’t noticed already: whoever posting here as “The_Exploit_Guy” (with underscores) isn’t me.”

    I can vouch for IP addresses from different countries for the two identities but that still doesn’t prove much.

  34. bw wrote, “I don’t agree with your fixation regarding the client division and I think you have to look at the larger picture to see where Microsoft is heading.”

    The client division is the one that enslaves hundreds of millions of ordinary people and does the most to mess with competition. M$ is heading away from clients as fast as they can, judging by “8”. Looking at page-views on StatCounter, it looks as though “8” will barely reach 10% share. Where will they be when “7” reaches EOL? 10%? 30%? Six years sliding a few percent each year means quite a drop.

    XP reached 90%+, Vista reached 22%, “7” reached 53%, “8” may reach 10%… See the trend? They alternate hits and misses with each pair barely half the previous share, so the next pair may be ~30% share, about 1/N of 3 suppliers: M$, Apple, GNU/Linux. Then there are the small cheap computers… Oops! They are nowhere comparatively.

    See StatCounter

    Again, if an organization has a mess of GNU/Linux or Mac clients, why do they need that other OS on the servers? I don’t see any need at all. Lots of businesses are using very few servers for new stuff and new clients will be new stuff sooner or later. There are lots of people skilled at moving databases from Oracle or M$’s to PostgreSQL or MySQL. There are lots of people happy to use other browsers. Why pay all that money for licences when you can have it all for $0? Same for the office suite, the last lock-in of business. Clearly, many businesses and governments can and do move to OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice or some derivative.

  35. bw wrote, “another fact is that hundreds of millions of XP computers have been operating with some sort of success for a decade and such abject failure would seem to bear on your talents as an administrator more that on XP’s worth as an OS.”

    I have administered hundreds of XP machines over the years and some installations were better than others. That one was the worst but the best of them was one with automatic updates turned off so a working snapshot kept working. One night M$ overrode our preferences and wrecked everything, so I cannot say I ever had a reliable system using XP. The most XP machines I ever managed was 100 and every few weeks one or another needed re-imaging, a total waste of my time. Some may find that acceptable if they were full-time IT support but I was a teacher first with other duties as assigned. You certainly cannot claim both that I was at fault and yet that other OS is perfect for consumers… GNU/Linux is much more suitable for education. Once installed it just keeps ticking. I have also administered hundreds of GNU/Linux machines and never had the kinds of troubles frequently encountered with that other OS: re-re-reboots, malware, BSODs and slowing down. Mostly students and teachers were pleasantly surprised that GNU/Linux was so fast on identical hardware and amazed that there were no limitations on what they could do with the OS like install it at home or run a server or database anywhere anytime.

  36. oiaohm says:

    bw you have failed to see how multi sided the FOSS assault has been.

    Reducing cost of Education is one of the FOSS groups biggest goals.

    If your kid is a true idiot it does not matter how many millions you spend on education it will change nothing.

    Money for the future is very limited importance. Enough money to live is all you need.

  37. oiaohm says:

    bw except exactly what you said about sending kids to MIT costing money is changing.

    FOSS is transforming many things.

    bw there is more than 1 way to achieve getting your children educated.

    Your problem you fail to understand what Linux people value bw. You value money. Value money is foolish. Currencies threw history have come and gone.

    The most import thing to having power is access to Information not money. Money use to be required in large values to acquired.

    bw what would happen to Microsoft Millions if China pulls of removing the USD from the central currency. Yes all those collected millions might be worth less than a 10 dollar note.

    Money is a very foolish objective because its value can be destroyed.

  38. dougman says:

    Idiot….working as an employee, never makes one wealthy. I dare you to try….

    M$ rewarded hard-work with options, which provided a feed-back loop to do more, which analogous to providing a commission. Now, M$ is a horrid place to work, with its stack-ranked rating systems.

    Dropping $250K on college is a ripoff, why should one go into debt, when the possibility of finding a job upon commencement is bleak? Its more fruitful to go out on your own and do away with the thought of ever being an ’employee’

    One thing to note, as your mentioned both MIT and Caltech, both are members of opencourseware. See, even even these universities are understanding that open-source is the better value these days.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCourseWare

  39. bw says:

    states that Windows devs make more money

    Pay more attention to the words, dougman! I said that the Windows developers at Microsoft, i.e. the Microsoft employees became wealthy. Multi-millionaires wealthy. More than ten thousand of them. They can afford to send their kids to Caltech or MIT and not have to pretend that these universities are rip offs and so should be avoided by you pennywise folk.

  40. dougman says:

    Using BW’s ill-logic, M$ success is immaterial due to the use of Windows? Apple success is immaterial to the use of iOS? Hmmmmmm…..

    If we took either software from both companies they would be non-existent and die.

    Oh-no!

  41. dougman says:

    BW, the liar states that Windows devs make more money.

    *YAWN*

    http://news.dice.com/2013/02/28/demand-for-linux-talent/

    http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publications/linux-foundation/2012-linux-jobs-report

    Salary differences: “Linux Administrator, Windows Administrator, Linux Developer, Windows Developer Salary”
    http://goo.gl/RtDxph

  42. bw says:

    But you should stop with your petty insults

    Anyone who types “Micro$oft” has pretty much abandoned any claim for respect in a discussion. You verbally pat your fanny and stick out your tongue when you indulge in such childish display. You get no respect from me that way.

    … on top of GNU/Linux

    Don’t kid yourself. Linux is immaterial to the business success of these companies. They use Linux as a no-cost substitute for what would have been implemented with Unix had there been no alternative. They could do the same with Windows servers if they wished. Certainly it would cost them more, but they have plenty of income to cover it.

    The hordes of developers who have produced the Windows products over the years are very well off financially for their efforts. There are a few well off Linux developers, too, but not very many and none of them are what you can call wealthy in spite of what they have achieved. Maybe some day Larry Page will buy Linus a lunch.

    it’s very much the way they are investing in their product line right now

    So they bought Nokia. Presumably someone there thinks that they can make some money selling phones and can add some new wrinkles with Skype and such. Maybe, maybe not. They will continue to milk their huge cash cows as well. It will take a while to see where it all goes.

  43. That Exploit Guy says:

    In case anyone hasn’t noticed already: whoever posting here as “The_Exploit_Guy” (with underscores) isn’t me.
    Now, carry on with whatever discussion (of lack thereof) you are having.

  44. dougman says:

    These trolls that hang out here are all the same, you cannot beat any logic into them. Their sole purpose is to distract away from the topic with BS.

    You did leave out one, Instagram which is built with Ubuntu, then bought for $1B by Facebook. Try doing that with M$ crap software, you cannot without paying excessive licensing fees and you still do not own the software.

    http://instagram-engineering.tumblr.com/post/13649370142/what-powers-instagram-hundreds-of-instances-dozens-of

    No one that’s anybody on the web these days, does NOT use M$ software for its servers and its growing towards the desktop. Phones and tablets have already been lost to Android.

  45. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    re: “devices and services”

    It’s not all “hype”, it’s very much the way they are investing in their product line right now. I don’t think Micro$oft wants to be a “devices and services” company, but they know as plainly as we do that there is no future for them as a software company. If they “stay the course”, they will fall over like many other companies did in the past. Unfortunately, they’ve come too late to the realization that need to be doing things differently, and thus got completely and likely irreverisbly dominated by Apple and Google.

  46. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    Facebook, Google and Twitter building their empires

    … on top of GNU/Linux. That’s what people like me and Mr. Pogson has been saying all along, GNU/Linux is the future of education, the future of business, the future of the technology industry. And Micro$oft is the past. So if you want to stay relevent, maybe you should be brushing on your grepping and awking. Fortunately, you won’t have to pay a frank either, free software doesn’t discriminate.

  47. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    bw,
    I’m glad you seem to be able to see that Micro$oft is a has been. But you should stop with your petty insults and be a little more respectful to your fellow posters here. Thanks.

  48. Dr Loser says:

    I predict the client division will be down ~$1billion from its usual $4billion per quarter.

    And I predict it won’t, Robert.

    Let’s see who is correct. In two weeks. Should be simple.

  49. bw says:

    Why is that bw?

    It is meaningless hype and sloganeering, of course. Once they are successful, all corporations waste tons of money on defining themselves and setting their mission statements and other things that “management consultants” sell to top management to bore the lesser folk with and making them dance on command.

  50. bw says:

    The point is Micro$oft is faltering

    Then that should be a good thing for you. Not only will you not have as hard of a time spelling Microsoft, not having to shift and reach all the way to the $ key, but your prose will lose some of its sniveling schoolboy effect. That is if that was not your intent.

    As I suggested to Mr. Pogson, I do not think that Microsoft has topped out just yet, but maybe your (and his) dreams will soon come true. Nothing lasts forever you know. The once mighty Steel Curtain and Mean Joe Green have given away to becoming a doormat, their Terrible Towels abandoned.

    I likened Microsoft here to an eventually played-out gold mine. It was great while it lasted, but could not be forever. Ballmer will soon follow Gates off to other pursuits, spending their billions on whatever strikes their fancy and watching the new breed at Facebook and Google and Twitter build their own empires.

    Meanwhile you can enjoy grepping, awking, and lising to your heart’s content without paying a sou. So everyone wins in the end. Sweet!

  51. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    Also if you believe Ballmer, Micro$oft is a “devices and services” company now. They don’t even want to be a considered a software company anymore. Why is that bw?

  52. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    The point is Micro$oft is faltering. Sure, they are still a giant tech company, but they don’t have the position they had in the market even 5 years ago. In fact, in one of the most important modern markets right now (mobile) they a statistical anomaly worth of relevance. All they have to hold on to is a their desktop market which continues to decline year after year.

  53. bw says:

    ..market cap…

    That is a rather uninformed measure, Mr. Guy. Microsoft sells software and Apple sells devices and Google sells advertising. The relative size of those businesses is not as important as how much profit is derived relative to investment. All three companies make substantial profits. Previously the title was held by oil companies and financial institutions. So what?

  54. bw says:

    Sure, that’s what M$ does

    Not the same thing at all. Microsoft tries to lure people into buying something with its promotions, but they are not doing anything at all comparable. If they, say, offered a new Wintel buyer a free iPod (or even Zune if they still make them) to select Windows PCs over Apple Macs, then it might be the same thing.

    We could not keep XP running

    Perhaps that is a fact, but another fact is that hundreds of millions of XP computers have been operating with some sort of success for a decade and such abject failure would seem to bear on your talents as an administrator more that on XP’s worth as an OS. It doesn’t work to blame how high the bar is set when so many others have had no difficulty clearing it.

  55. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    M$ went from being the #1 tech company by market cap by a huge margin to the #3 behind Google and Apple (and the gap is increasing). All is not rosy in Redmond, that’s for sure.

  56. bw says:

    What’s your prediction, bw?

    My personal predictions do not mean much since I am devoid of any Microsoft stock at the moment, but for academic purposes, I think that they will show a slight increase overall in revenues over a year ago. There hasn’t been any particularly bad news on the horizon and the 8.1 is said to fix a lot of the irritation of the traditionalists. I’m not installing it right away myself.

    I don’t agree with your fixation regarding the client division and I think you have to look at the larger picture to see where Microsoft is heading.

    There are lots of things happening in the overall computer business and, if you include phones and tablets as “computers”, Android has certainly made a huge splash as the counter to Apple’s products.

    Just as companies that make trucks and autos are in the transportation business along with companies that make railroad cars and transport aircraft, companies in this large “IT business” prosper in their respective niches. Apple, Google, and Microsoft all make a lot of money as do Facebook and Twitter and Oracle and Dell and HP and Sony. How any individual company is doing is something that you need to study individually. Competition is mostly tangential here. Apple really does not compete against Microsoft except in some trendy image sort of way. Microsoft sells software to OEMs who sort of compete with Apple, but even that competition is not so much on product as it is attitude of consumers.

  57. bw wrote, “your premise is that people will accept Linux if you offer them a bribe”.

    Sure, that’s what M$ does, keep offering something new, never delivering and offering to sell something newer… That’s Wintel.

    I have often sold GNU/Linux just on performance. The last school where I worked went from 20 PCs working to 80 PCs working thanks to GNU/Linux. We could not keep XP running even on 40PCs. I tried hard. 80PCs of GNU/Linux was like a single PC, trivial to keep running. People loved it. That other OS not so much. Teachers were actually trying to ship out failed PCs at their own expense to get them to work until GNU/Linux arrived. There wasn’t a single case of slowing down or malware or re-re-rebooting after that. Resistance to change is a mental barrier. Hop over, under or around it and folks are free to use their IT hardware to the best of its capability limited only by the imagination of users. If M$ had not coerced OEMs to bundle that other OS there would have been a Hell of a lot of resistance from consumers to installing that other OS. You know that. Getting the software on the PC is the biggest barrier, not the mindset.

  58. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    Micro$oft is literally a third rate tech company now.

  59. bw wrote, “The financials for MSFT are coming out next week, so you will be able to tell how much damage has been done to Microsoft by all this.”

    I predict the client division will be down ~$1billion from its usual $4billion per quarter. A combination of down 10% for shipments of legacy PCs, 10% down because GNU/Linux is taking off and down 5% for the fact that “8” isn’t selling and they are having to give away “8.1” all mean the business is down a lot. There could be more for the stupid shutdown of USAian government although that might not hit the quarter to be announced. Are they at the tipping point where servers and office suites are tanking with the decline in desktop business? Perhaps not but that will come sooner or later and then there will be more rounds of layoffs as M$ tries to keep up the earnings per share. What’s looming is that “7” is becoming the new XP and it might be another decade before some businesses refresh their OS. How many are paying for “software assurance”extortion now? What’s your prediction, bw?

  60. bw says:

    The organization offered migrants a new wide screen monitor and most of the resistance crumbled. People don’t like change but if you show them the advantages, it’s all good

    Only “most”? So your premise is that people will accept Linux if you offer them a bribe? I do not think that is a winning strategy, but you go ahead and feel good anyway. If it works for the French police, maybe it will work for others although you are going to have to buy an awful lot of monitors to crack 2% from the less than 1% now.

    The financials for MSFT are coming out next week, so you will be able to tell how much damage has been done to Microsoft by all this.

  61. That_Exploit_Guy says:

    Linux is easier to customize and free of malware and spyware unlike that other OS. No duh lots of companies and governments are waking up to this. It’s already the #1 OS on mobile phones, supercomputers and servers. It will also be #1 OS on desktop.

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