Munich Attacks Windows XP

Not only did Munich decide to avoid migrating from NT to XP, the city is attempting to assist residents to migrate from XP to GNU/Linux in order to prolong the useful life of those PCs

“Munich City Council plan to make Ubuntu discs available as a ‘replacement for Windows XP’ – Microsoft’s 11-year old operating system for which support officially ends in April of next year.

The proactive effort is been billed as an attempt to ‘prevent electronic waste’ from discarded computers that, whilst still serviceable with an alternative OS, would fail to meet the requirements of Windows 7 or Windows 8.”

see German City Hopes to Wean Citizens Off Windows XP With Free Linux CDs

Way to go! Of course they could have decided to produce 100K CDs but 2K will do if they are shared. Hey! It’s FLOSS. The residents can do that, legally.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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28 Responses to Munich Attacks Windows XP

  1. Ted says:

    @Dougman

    “Ted, the troll, so full of knowledge and power”
    “Ted, the troll, that arm-chair quarterback”

    Are you actually *trying* to provoke angry emotional responses from me?

    Look up what “internet troll” actually means.

    @Pogson

    I suppose you view this behaviour as acceptable, given he’s on your side of the argument?

    “Ted, bewildered by effective use of a large body of work,”

    But of course you do.

  2. oiaohm says:

    Ted if you like it or not Techrights does include large lists of links to reports where companies have been caught out doing the wrong things on stats.

    Really credibility of a site is not the only factor.

    Can a proper check and balance be done to techrights yes it can. Just no one has Ted. People from the cursed place who are so called about keeping everything non troll have never done any proper research to disprove most of the techrights sources.

    Problem is there are huge numbers of reported Gartner.

    Yes techrights has done a lot of write up. Problem its the only party that has spent the time to build a full collection.

    Ted its really put up or shut up time on your side. You don’t like Techrights reporting so where is yours covering the multi cases against them.

  3. bw says:

    The amount of effort being put out by the anti-MS bunch is truly amazing! I thought Pogson was pretty prolific, but this Techrights guy takes it to a whole new level. There must be millions of words published here in rants about everything under the sun.

    In all these words, though, he seems to lose the thread of logic frequently. One rant about Bill Gates has this link:

    http://businessmirror.com.ph/index.php/en/features/science/14645-bill-gates-visits-icrisat

    I have stared at it for some time and I still cannot see just what evil he can find in it. Can one of you explain it?

  4. Ted says:

    “Check Wikipedia. It has more links to itself than the outside world because it is the largest body of human knowledge on the web”

    If Wikipedia articles are incorrect, then they will be *corrected* by someone else. No such check or balance exists on TechRights.

  5. dougman says:

    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”, hence the point of revisiting the past by way of links.

  6. Ted, bewildered by effective use of a large body of work, wrote, “Check their news page – in the FOUR top stories alone, there are TWENTY-NINE links to…

    …wait for it…

    TECHRIGHTS”

    So, you want them just to give dead links or do writing over again that they’ve already done? They are not that stupid.

    My blog has been around six years. I link to previous articles that are relevant to particular details of current articles/comments. Sue me.

    Check Wikipedia. It has more links to itself than the outside world because it is the largest body of human knowledge on the web and connections between bits of information are about as important as the information itself. That may not fit in your “troll’s talking points” but that’s the way it is.

  7. Ted says:

    “Ted, the troll, so full of knowledge and power but fails to mention that TechRights have been in business since 2006.”

    So what? What are you trying to prove? TechRights link to themselves all the time as a “source” and they’ve been doing it for a *long time*??

    Check their news page – in the FOUR top stories alone, there are TWENTY-NINE links to…

    …wait for it…

    TECHRIGHTS

  8. dougman says:

    Ted, the troll, so full of knowledge and power but fails to mention that TechRights have been in business since 2006.

    Ted, the troll, that arm-chair quarterback has blog no blog to speak of and to counter with. Ack!

  9. Ted says:

    “Nope. Techrights cites its sources and they are usually solid.”

    Don’t make me laugh!!

    Any story from them will be supported by multiple levels of links also to TechRights, or some random blog which by a *staggering coincidence* will be run by a TechRights contributor, or a regular to the TechRights IRC channel.

    The “story” about Guatemala and the BSA has two links back to TechRights, and a link from “Tim” who amazingly, just so happens to have his picture on the top of the TechRights news page.

  10. Ted wrote, “Citing BoycottNovell = credibility suicide”

    Nope. Techrights cites its sources and they are usually solid.

  11. Ted says:

    “Well Gartner is paid to say particular things.

    http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gartner_Group

    Citing BoycottNovell = credibility suicide

  12. matchrocket says:

    dougman wrote: “When you read this:…”

    I followed the link. It’s interesting that Windows showed a drop of 6.9 million units from 2012 to 2013 yet Gartner predicts an increase for the OS of 38.6 million units from 2013 to 2014. I wonder where they think that’s coming from? Windows 8.1? Lower prices on their over priced products? The magic fairy lady?

    Maybe Ballmer’s upcoming July 1st reorg will have something to do with it. That should prove to be very interesting whatever the case.

  13. oiaohm says:

    bw you are talking about a government that people have todo business with. Munich is in the nasty location they are providing the replacement to XP. So they now can legally end of life support of XP when it goes end of life. What does this mean.

    This means like government web site could directly refuse XP machines. There are networking signature even to a web site that XP cannot hide. Its todo with how XP forms TCP headers. Yes there is a reason why vista and newer has a rewritten TCP stack. Vista on is harder to isolate compared to other OS than XP and before is.

    End of Life of XP opens up the door to blackout bw. This is the nasty effect of using a unique TCP/IP stack in your OS then discontinuing it.

    Passive OS detection has been around since the year 2000 bw. It is very exact when given the right targets. Block all NT versions of Windows XP and prior is 100 percent dependable because those stacks have unique bugs. Block all the 9x line OS’s is also 100 percent dependable again a unique set of bugs. Blocking Apples OS 9 and before is also exact.

    Correctly block OS X, LInux, Freebsd and Vista on from each other is still not dependable. Linux and Freebsd are particularly hard due to the fact they can tweak there stacks so much.

    Since passive detection of the TCP/IP stack changing to use Firefox or some other browser does not work. Running a virtual machine inside XP to attempt to fool it also will fail. Why passing through the XP TCP/IP stack taints the packets.

    bw so the question here is what is Munich upto. If they are going to turn on passive OS detection they need to producing the discs so anyone who complains they are locked they can just give a disk to and say use this.

    Question is how much force are they going to use to kill off XP. Hardware failure is not the only way a OS can become worthless.

  14. dougman says:

    Get a life, no one wants Windows Late 8, 8.1 still wont solve the problems it has.

    When you read this: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/2525515

    You start looking at these: http://blog.laptopmag.com/samsung-galaxy-tab-3-2

  15. bw says:

    I doubt that this will get much attention from the citizens. Maybe the geek or two that is otherwise mentally retarded will take advantage of this initiative, but not the common folk. If they have put off updating their Windows computer for a decade, it is doubtful that they care in the least about support issues either. They do not have any intensive needs that would have motivated them to upgrade their overall capability and they will simply continue using XP until the computer succumbs to some hardware failure or another and forces them to get a new machine. That machine will have Windows 8 if they get it today.

  16. Maou Sadao wrote, “Care to elaborate?”

    Mindset only. Layman can and do install GNU/Linux with no problem but they usually do not know it is a possibility or how to get started.

  17. Maou Sadao says:

    Mr. Pogson, you’re lying:

    “On the contrary, it’s the confidence the layman lacks. A typical installation of GNU/Linux requires a newbie to enter a couple of names/passwords and keep pressing ‘enter’ to get something useful.”

    I present you with your thoughts on installing Linux from April 7th:

    “That’s a solution for geeks only. I was writing that comment from the viewpoint of a mortal.” (Link)

    Care to elaborate?

  18. matchrocket says:

    There’s nothing great about you Chairman Maou. With the exception of the amount of FUD you crap out. You and your fellow Microsoft FUD crappers pay special attention to the Munich story. It just bugs the Hell out of you. You hate to see them saving money not using Microsoft.

    The more you write about it, the more you prove my point. You just can’t let the good news about Munich get by without throwing a monkey wrench into the works. It doesn’t matter. The predictions are that Microsoft will continue to lose desktop market share at an accelerating rate and will continue to stagnate in other markets.

    In other words, Microsoft will no longer be dominant on the desktop and will be lucky to capture 2nd place in tablets and mobile phones.

  19. Maou Sadao wrote, “they’re robbing taxpayers’ money. The cost for producing these 2K CDs is said to be 4000 Euros. Funny, as you can get such an amount of CDs for about 500 Euros these days, complete with jewel cases and color inlay.”

    Actually they are saving the taxpayers a lot of money, like the waste-processing and pollution saved by delaying destruction of tens of thousands of XP machines. There could be a tradeoff with energy consumption of those machines but the tonnage of material is significant.

  20. Maou Sadao wrote, “when even Mr. Pogson claims that installing an operating system — be it Linux, be it Windows — is not something easily done by the layman”

    On the contrary, it’s the confidence the layman lacks. A typical installation of GNU/Linux requires a newbie to enter a couple of names/passwords and keep pressing “enter” to get something useful. With a little guidance they can get something quite customized for what they want to do and how they want to work. There are hundreds of millions who know how to point and click in XP and it’s basically the same in Debian GNU/Linux with XFCE4 or the installer.

  21. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao Lubuntu installer is a livecd. So hardware issues are detected before installing to the hard drive.

    Also the other point about backing up data being a Livecd Lubuntu can do that.

    There is a reason why its 4000 EURO. The installation guide is to cover all the crap you have just talked about.

    Public install fests have limited penetration. Some people are just too shy to turn up to public events like that.

    The thing about live Linux cd solutions the issues of it going south in a bad way resulting in a not working computer is low.

    Will Lubuntu install on all computer no it will not. Will its installer be non functional on those computers yes it will be. Reason installed OS and installing OS are identical. This is not true for Windows.

    Maou Sadao the differences between Windows and Linux install processes. Heck between different Linux install processes.

    Like you would not let a new user lose with Debian expert mode installer. This is non graphical. Text based. This does not fail the same way in the installer as the installed.

    Reduction in new user risk. What has been produced also allows users to try it and get someone else todo the risky install process.

    Also do look up who is truly in charge of Munich’s public libraries.

  22. Maou Sadao says:

    Wow. So, oiaohm claims I can’t read. Unfortunately I can. And 3500 Euros for “literature” — meaning: a quick-start guide printed on at most 4 sheets A4 paper, you moron — is a bit hefty.

    Matchrocket — proving he’s not too bright again — claims I have stated that Munich is losing money. No, I haven’t stated this as far as it regards this little “distribute Linux CDs” project. I have stated that Munich’s savings thanks to LiMux are a big, fat lie.

    By the way, matchrocket: if you insist on the Chairman Maou moniker — it’s not enough. Please call me then:

    Great leader, Great Teacher, Great Supreme Commander, Great Helmsman.

  23. matchrocket says:

    You can tell how much the Munich story is hurting Microsoft by how much FUD their trolls are shitting. I see Chairman Maou doing some armchair calculations. It seems the troll wants to tell Munich they are losing money. It doesn’t work that way Maou. You can tell a lie often enough and maybe get some people to believe it. But telling a city they’re losing money when they are not just doesn’t work.

  24. Kevin Lynch says:

    I’m fairly certain Munich aren’t simply going to be handing out blank CDs or CDs with “Ubuntu” scribbled on in marker pen. They’ll be opting for something more professional.

    €4000 isn’t a lot of money in the grand scheme of Munich’s quarterly budget. In fact it’s pocket change that would be wasted on something silly otherwise.

  25. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao read closer “f printing discs and literature ”

    2 EURO for disc and installation guide it is not much. Sorry you cannot read and that is your problem. Yes just a disc is 500 EURO the printed paper is more expensive.

  26. Maou Sadao says:

    Actually, this course of action Munich wants to take will rear its ugly head real soon. In the original proposition by the Ecological Democratic Party there’s this passage:

    Lubuntu is a proven and widely used version of Linux with minimal system requirements which can be installed and operated like Windows XP. Special computer knowledge isn’t necessary. All important programs are included free of charge: office, internet, email, video, drivers for DSL, printers etc.

    Now, when even Mr. Pogson claims that installing an operating system — be it Linux, be it Windows — is not something easily done by the layman (whose computer comes pre-installed with Windows), then this passage calls for trouble, doesn’t it? What if the gullible user destroys his other OS and/or his data while trying to install Lubuntu? What if hardware doesn’t work? (There is that chance.) The users will hold the city and Lubuntu responsible.

    No, this is a bad idea which will certainly not help Linux.

    Better do something like an install fest where people can bring their computers and get Linux installed. A public library would be a good place for such an event.

  27. Maou Sadao says:

    Actually, they’re robbing taxpayers’ money. The cost for producing these 2K CDs is said to be 4000 Euros. Funny, as you can get such an amount of CDs for about 500 Euros these days, complete with jewel cases and color inlay. Okay, so they want to print flyers. Do these flyers cost 3500 Euros? That’d be a bad deal.

    Interestingly enough, all public computers in Munich’s public libraries run Windows 2000 and a proprietary kiosk software. Why don’t they simply switch these computers to Ubuntu? Kiosk software does exist for Linux and the OPAC is only browser-based.

    As it is, these public computers only offer: OpenOffice and Acrobat Reader. Putting Linux on them together with a wide selection of proven applications would actually be useful in this case.

    The central library has a mere 12 computers that can be used by the public — they should ramp this up massively. Internet access is 20 cents for 12 minutes at these computers — it should be free (ironically you can get coupons for free WLAN access).

    Honestly, if they want to spend 4000 Euros then they should convert these computers (and all the other computers which only run the OPAC in a browser) to Linux and fix their network (using the OPAC can be dog-slow). You then get the advertising for free.

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