M$’s Start Button Isn’t Back

“This isn’t the Start button you were looking for…”
see Windows 8.1 – It's Official The Start Button Isn't Back

Chuckle. Applying another coat of paint won’t fix M$’s problems:

  • A person with a mouse doesn’t want huge icons on which to click…
  • A person with a keyboard probably wants a mouse…

The concept, also followed by Canonical unfortunately, that people want all their computers to look/feel the same is flawed. People don’t want a mouse or keyboard in their shirt-pocket. People don’t want an OS that assumes touchy screens on a huge desktop monitor. Why does Canonical, who should know better, and M$ which can hire bunches of consultants who should know better, make this tragic error?

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

46 Responses to M$’s Start Button Isn’t Back

  1. jason says:

    “I admitted that the resemblance was superficial”

    And the definition of resemblance is “the quality or state of resembling; especially : correspondence in appearance or superficial qualities” hence you admit they look alike.

    “The example also is not lame at all. In a not-so-abstract way a Ferrari and a Lada look quite the same, as they are both cars”

    It’s so lame I can’t even believe you’re using it as an example, using your logic would mean everyone on the planet looks alike because we are all people and all have a nose, two eyes, two ears, a mouth, etc…

    “You simply out of spite want to deny the Windows 8 interface what you accept as “truth””

    What are you talking about now? I said windows 8 and AOL look alike, and I’m not the only one who thinks so, even you admit there’s a resemblance, you’re just angry that microsoft copied from AOL.

  2. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao look at those Ferrari F430 and Lada 1200 from a Interface Design point of view have a lot in common.

    Where is the door handle. How the controls are set out. It depends on what design point of view you are talking about. If you are talking about interface design those cars are very similar in most places to identical.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TVR_Tuscan_Speed_6

    This beast is a car to put next to the Lada 1200 for bare min in common.

    TVR Tuscan Speed 6 Notice no outside door handle. Ok there is one under the door mirror a click button on the Tuscan.

    Ok you get in. You close door you go to get out. The door handle and window handle don’t exist on the door. Those are buttons and nobs in the central console not labeled. Yes the inside of TVR Tuscan Speed 6 doors are perfectly smooth. Your normal car user-ablity knowledge is not helping you one bit using a Tuscan.

    Yes the glove box where the cars manual to open that is also press a unlabelled button in centre console. Pop bonnet is also a unlabelled button in centre console (that was moved in latter models due to very dangerous issues).

    Looking for the wind screen wipers in the Tuscan is funny. They are up on top of the dash straight in plain view. Ask a person to find them they will look next to the steering column where they are in every other car. Same with the lights they are up on top of dash.

    Maou Sadao really TVR Tuscan Speed 6 would be a very good experience for you go and have to learn what is user interface design. Not appearance design. They wanted to make there car a unique experience and totally achieved that. It might appear to be a car but it not like any car you have used.

    AOL Kids and Metro have a overlap in user interface design. Just happens to be something you should never do.

  3. Maou Sadao says:

    What a lame example, they look completely different, windows 8 and AOL look very similar, even you admitted it.

    I admitted that the resemblance was superficial. And that in itself was an ironic statement that you still cannot grasp.

    The example also is not lame at all. In a not-so-abstract way a Ferrari and a Lada look quite the same, as they are both cars.

    http://www.wikipediatrade.com/img/Ferrari_F430_front_20080605.jpg
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Lada_1200.jpg

    Two cars with tires, and headlights, and doors, and windows, and even painted the same color.

    You simply out of spite want to deny the Windows 8 interface what you accept as “truth” with a Ferrari and a Lada. But it merely depends on the point of view. And if you look at it from a design point of view, AOL Kids and Windows 8 look simply nothing alike.

  4. jason says:

    “As I wrote: Ferrari and Lada — basically the same”

    What a lame example, they look completely different, windows 8 and AOL look very similar, even you admitted it.

    “Hey, is it a coincidence that wobbly windows became popular with Linux after they were demoed in an early Longhorn preview?”

    I don’t know, but we aren’t talking about that are we, we are talking about windows 8 looking like AOL, even you admit it does, you just don’t want to admit that microsoft copied from AOL.

  5. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao the most popular effect is the 3d cube desktop changer.

    –A question that shows that you have understood nothing, jason. As I wrote: Ferrari and Lada — basically the same.–

    Maou Sadao yet both are making what users want. If Metro and Aol kids was a car for interface you are talking about a TVR Tuscan first generation. Yes it has everything to make a perfect car bar sensible human interface. Ok to open door is fine it a button under the mirror. But once you get in you close door right. Not if you want to start engine. Also finding the door handle to get out is no where near normal. Yes good anti-theif to the point of bad end user experience.

    Maou Sadao
    –Hey, is it a coincidence that wobbly windows became popular with Linux after they were demoed in an early Longhorn preview?–

    In fact it is not a coincidence. The core of the Linux Nvidia binary driver and the Windows Nvidia binary driver is identical at core. After Longhorn was going to have it the Nvidia binary driver stopped random-ally crashing the system if you decided to use the require features todo wobbly windows. I do mean kernel panic class crashes. End of story.

    Maou Sadao Windows and Linux are not 100 percent isolated from each other. Most people are not aware that the binary core in the Closed source Nvidia drivers for x86 OS X, Linux, Solaris, freebsd and Windows is identical(byte for byte identical). Say hello to universal kernel exploit if you are able to find a flaw in that bit. Yes its x86 code.

  6. matchrocket says:

    Maou Sadao lied: “Hey, is it a coincidence that wobbly windows became popular with Linux after they were demoed in an early Longhorn preview?”

    More revisionist history.

  7. Maou Sadao says:

    So is it just a big coincidence they happen to look alike?

    A question that shows that you have understood nothing, jason. As I wrote: Ferrari and Lada — basically the same.

    Hey, is it a coincidence that wobbly windows became popular with Linux after they were demoed in an early Longhorn preview?

  8. Maou Sadao wrote, “on this blog people are insulted constantly, as they are directly or indirectly accused of being stupid if they stick with Windows.”

    It’s not just I who think people are stupid to use that other OS, M$ knows that too:
    “We think the total cost of ownership of NT is lower than Linux”. M$ must think people are stupid to believe that obvious lie. M$ has told that lie for more than a decade yet organizations that actually use GNU/Linux report huge savings. “Most of these savings are on proprietary software licences. Up until 2004 the Gendarmerie acquired 12,000 to 15,000 licences annually. In 2005 it bought just 27. “Since July 2007 we have bought two hundred Microsoft licences. If one of us wants a new PC, it comes with Ubuntu. This encourages our users to migrate.” Guimard estimates Gendarmerie since 2004 has saved 50 million euro on licences for standard office applications, hardware and maintenance.”

    see FR: Gendarmerie saves millions with open desktop and web applications

    In my own experience with schools, the capital cost of IT was about half when GNU/Linux was used and the cost of operation was much less, probably 5% or so. Often teachers do IT in schools on their own time. I have been compensated for doing IT in schools either with a side-contract, more “prep” time, or, most often, not at all. Clearly teachers would not be giving their time away for $0 unless it was a very small burden. I have spent months between having to do anything with IT except monitoring the system. Once installed, GNU/Linux just keeps working. Using APT and openSSH with Debian GNU/Linux I can install or update software with just a few seconds of effort for the whole system, OS and applications on any number of clients and/or servers.

  9. jason says:

    “No the big thing is they both look alike and they are both hated”

    Yep, microsoft sure did pick the wrong UI to copy from.

  10. oiaohm says:

    jason –So is it just a big coincidence they happen to look alike?–

    No the big thing is they both look alike and they are both hated. This is no coincidence. Both have done something that is the do not do list.

  11. jason says:

    “Forgive me, jason, but it was you who accused me of hiding behind my screen in anonymity”

    That’s because you ARE hiding behind your computer screen in anonymity, and Mr. Pogson having your ip address (assuming you’re not using a vpn) means absolutely nothing, so what if he can roughly pin point you to a general location?
    You didn’t answer my question either.

    “Because this blog — like thousands of others — is nothing if not a reaction to people insulting your beloved OS”

    No it’s not, this specific topic is about windows, it’s trolls like you who take it personally when someone says something you don’t like about your beloved OS, you can’t handle other people’s opinions, so you respond by insulting the person, very immature.

    Look, dougman said something bad about windows, you better insult him.
    You even admit that windows 8 looks like AOL when you made this remark “AOL Kids has nothing to do with Windows 8′s design — despite the superficial resemblance”
    So is it just a big coincidence they happen to look alike?

  12. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao
    –Perhaps you should look at Bauhaus industrial design to understand why AOL Kids has nothing to do with Windows 8′s design — despite the superficial resemblance.–

    But both are hated for the exactly the same reason. There were some other ISP kids interfaces that did not build up massive rejection. Difference they had either drop-shadow buttons or rounded corners on buttons. AOL did not.

    Why do you think research was started by Barrow Neurological Institute and others.

    Odd items rejected and Odd items accepted. Even strangeness in Bauhaus industrial design documentation.

    Bauhaus industrial design does not demand sharp corners in fact on sign-age recommends against it.

    Maou Sadao what Microsoft is using out of date Bauhaus industrial design. Clean lines and function means you must direct the eye to where it meant to be looking. Sharp corner boxes don’t do that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Olivetti-schawinsky-bauhaus-typewriter.jpg This is a Bauhaus notice not one square corner.

    Aol kids and Metro are not Bauhaus industrial design. That does not demand square corners on buttons. Yes the round bit around push signs on doors, on the male/female toilet signs…. come from Bauhaus industrial design.

    The early group to discover the problem with square corners and the human eye is The Bauhaus School.

    Maou Sadao I have heard this claim a few times and I can tell you get some Bauhaus Industrial Design books and look at the sign-age sections. It tells you how you should box stuff you want users to read. Either round or in a rounded corner box. Never square corners.

    The mistake Microsoft and Aol has made is old we have known about it for over 50 years and people are still doing it. Basically a new crop of designer idiots who don’t read the history design documents for direction and go and do stupid things.

    We have more modern research that explain why Bauhaus and others recommended rounded borders on signage if there was a boarder. Yet on doorways and windows recommend square.

    –German modernist school–
    Maou Sadao I know of none the recommend square boarders push signs and so on. Its not a German Modernist School that give any commonality between AOL kids and Metro.

    Both AOL and Metro disobey all recommended designs for interfaces in there time. Problem is there is traits of humans why never to-do that.

    Yes it makes you look unique to your competition. Problem is it also drives your poor users nuts and they hate you for it.

    There is unique design and then there is unique design you should never do. AOL Kids and Metro both fall into that.

  13. Maou Sadao says:

    I suggest you stick to the topic of this blog and not insult people when they say something against your beloved OS.

    There, you can use irony! Because this blog — like thousands of others — is nothing if not a reaction to people insulting your beloved OS.

    In fact, on this blog people are insulted constantly, as they are directly or indirectly accused of being stupid if they stick with Windows.

  14. Maou Sadao says:

    And you think I’m a retard? are you willing to get on a plane just to say that to my face? grow up please.

    Forgive me, jason, but it was you who accused me of hiding behind my screen in anonymity (given the fact that my IP address is in Mr. Pogson’s log, I’m not really anonymous either).

  15. Maou Sadao says:

    Really jason you got it wrong. Maou Sadao was the bully at school so Maou Sadao could fell better about him/her self.

    Your skills of deduction are amazing. Yes, already back then I got a fat paycheck from Microsoft. I bullied everyone who didn’t use Microsoft or talked bad about it. As you can see I have made a career out of it.

    ROFL!

    Maou Sadao you did agree there was a superficial resemblance.

    Look up irony, that’s spelled: I-R-O-N-Y.

    What did I really write? This:

    Yes, the superficial resemblance is AMPLE proof. Here’s a better version of that AOL picture. You can clearly see the influence of the German modernist school.

    Tell me if you can find the irony.

    You know, a Ferrari is basically the same as a Lada, because both have four wheels, brakes, lights, doors etc.

    You know, the Twilight movies and the Blade movies are basically the same, because both have vampires.

    You know, [insert two random items superficially resembling each other].

    Perhaps you should look at Bauhaus industrial design to understand why AOL Kids has nothing to do with Windows 8’s design — despite the superficial resemblance.

  16. dougman says:

    M$ Windows, where you MUST buy additional software, to MAKE the software you just bought, function properly.

    At least with Linux, I can go in the config files and edit to my heart’s content, or even create an entirely new operating system by forking.

  17. jason says:

    “No. I was never bullied”

    Actually maybe oiaohm is right, seeing as its the people doing the bullying who have the emotional insecurities.

    “I truly think that you are a retard because you are unable to comprehend rhetorical devices”

    Now that’s what I call the pot calling the kettle black.

    “If you want I will say this to your face.”

    And you think I’m a retard? are you willing to get on a plane just to say that to my face? grow up please.

    I suggest you stick to the topic of this blog and not insult people when they say something against your beloved OS.

  18. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao
    –2. I truly think that you are a retard because you are unable to comprehend rhetorical devices.–

    Really jason you got it wrong. Maou Sadao was the bully at school so Maou Sadao could fell better about him/her self.

    Using rhetorical devices in english is one thing. Using them does not have to be used in insulting way and baseless in fact. Common behaviour of a bully to use them the way Maou Sadao did.

    –3. If you want I will say this to your face.–
    This is also bully style of wanting confrontation.

    Sorry Maou Sadao is a truly sad individual. I can pull example after example that the person is just a bully.

    Maou Sadao you did agree there was a superficial resemblance. And as you can see by http://mrpogson.com/2013/05/31/ms-start-button-isnt-back/#comment-120371 this the Superficial resemblance to AOL failed interface is very bad. If you look like AOL interface you are in trouble.

    Metro superficial is not design with human brains design in mind. Its counter to how the human brain works.

    People are hating Metro because it counter to the way human brain works. Thing is most people don’t know what the problem is in theconscious mind even that its annoying the hell out of them. The subconscious mind hates it because its working harder.

    There are other things wrong in metro like boarder less buttons in wrong places. Yes there are a place boarder-less buttons. Items you are not planing on clicking regularly on.

    Really if the superficial is completely a disaster for how the human brain works. Users will be looking for something else. Anything else that is not a disaster(yes how to increase ipad and android tablet sales). Yes wanting the old interface is not with metro driven by people who will not accept new. Its driven by the fact new is human incompatible.

    Windows 8 successfully has pissed of a bigger percentage of MS user base than Gnome 3.0 or KDE 4.0 changes did in the Linux world to their user bases. Reason. Gnome and KDE did not forgot the basics of how humans worked so the superficial was ok. The lack of features down right pissed the KDE and Gnome users off.

    Windows 8 interface is another MS Bob. Totally design without taking into account normal humans with normal human limitations have to use it.

    Aol interface was produced on the cheep and a tight budget. Microsoft really does not have this excuse. Someone head should role over Metro since its got the basics wrong. The fixes are simple give the users rounded corners in some areas and boarders around buttons in others. Result would be Metro become massively more acceptable.

    Subconscious mind is super great at driving blind hate. Will not matter what other features MS offers until they fix the superficial.

  19. being a troll wrote, ” I truly think that you are a retard because you are unable to comprehend rhetorical devices.”

    Rhetorical devices belong in living rooms and theatres, not blogs. I do not provide this blog so that you or anyone can show their mental superiority or lack of it. Succint efficient communication works. Why not use that?

  20. bw says:

    Quack! Quack! Get the idea?

  21. Maou Sadao says:

    I bet you were bullied at school, and insulting people while sitting behind the safety of your computer screen makes you fell like a big man.

    1. No. I was never bullied.

    2. I truly think that you are a retard because you are unable to comprehend rhetorical devices.

    3. If you want I will say this to your face.

  22. jason says:

    “What a comeback, retard!”

    I bet you were bullied at school, and insulting people while sitting behind the safety of your computer screen makes you fell like a big man.

  23. bw says:

    Maou Sadao

    If you go down to the big lake downtown, there is a sign stating “Do Not Feed The Ducks”. If you ignore it, you will have a bunch of ducks following your every move and making lots of noise and otherwise ruining any tranquility that might have existed. If you enjoy that, then go ahead and stir them up, but they will never quiet down and let you have any peace.

    It is enough to just argue the toss with Mr. Pogson who, while stubborn, is at least usually on point. Ignore the quacking.

  24. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao
    –I know you claim to be able to influence electromagnetic waves with your brain. A true ESPer. I hear the X-Men are hiring.–
    In fact that is wrong. ESP is not my ability. That is extra sensory perception. Mine is not an extra sense.

    You need to go back and check out what the claim is not third party idiots. Emotions effect biochemistry of the complete body. Its not my brain interfering its controlling the biochemistry that results in the effect from the complete body. This is not completely rare. Maou Sadao in fact alteration radio freq reflectivity is used by some lie detectors to detect when some people are lieing. My body response is just stronger than normal due to a few minor dna differences. This is the problem as soon I said interfere with electromagnetic you idiots presumed the only way todo that is from the brain. That is the thing my ability is not abnormal for human its just on the upper edge of a natural ability.

    If you are using ESP to define me you have it completely wrong. If there is anything close in cartoons it would be the human torch. Full body effect. I cannot choose a hand or foot or… it all or nothing. Maou Sadao of course this ability did not evolve without a reason. Delays the formation of ice crystals that lead to frost bite this also explains the freq it works on. Wifi and other items are working on freqs that effect water.

    As normal you still know bugger all and just proven you are limited to thinking what is drawn in cartoons.

    Maou Sadao just get it my ability is not ESP. Magnetic field arts include the heat pack made from a simple bit of aluminium foil + some damp paper folded. Heated by reacting to the field body generates. Yes simple right. Some people can use that as a heat pack. Some people cannot effectively. Some people can heat it to the point it burns. Some people need to control there emotions to be able todo it some people don’t. Its a human body ability. Everyone can heat the simple heat pack a few degrees above there body temp.

    The simpler you can heat that style heat pack the more resistance to frost bite you have.

    Maou Sadao mine is nothing more than the upper edge of natural. There is a mirror bottom edge.

  25. Maou Sadao says:

    Really you still know bugger all about me.

    I know you claim to be able to influence electromagnetic waves with your brain. A true ESPer. I hear the X-Men are hiring.

  26. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao sorry I don’t shear sheep and I don’t live on a farm these days.

    Really you still know bugger all about me.

  27. Maou Sadao says:

    No, but it appears you do.

    What a comeback, retard! As a reward you can visit oiaohm on his farm and shear his sheep.

  28. jason says:

    “Do all FOSS/Linux/ABM types have such a blind spot for irony and sarcasm?”

    No, but it appears you do.

  29. oiaohm says:

    http://uxmovement.com/thinking/why-rounded-corners-are-easier-on-the-eyes/

    I decided to give you the one that takes it right down to it basics. This does not include the drop shadow example. But metro does not do drop shadows.

    Yes this full long study is at the Barrow Neurological Institute. This kind of study has been repeated at many different Institutes the results identical every single time.

    Square corners on buttons=BAD is the repeating result. Its the way human brain is wired end of story.

    http://www.superutils.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/3-win-eight-metro-ui-switcher-new-start-screen.png

    So this is down right horible from useably.

    Metro would be made a lot nicer to look at just adding a simple round corners filter.

    Ted really if was was willing to put in some effort I would open up gimp and round the buttons on the start page of metro and put the image up here. The result is massively more user-friendly. I am not willing to do the effort when its simple enough for you todo Ted and then you cannot claim I rigged it.

    Microsoft has a dead straight in face userablity mistake with Windows 8. Very minor change could fix it.

    Ted metro hate is justified. Other funny fact is sharp pointed items we are conditioned to distrust.

    http://www.basement.org/2005/11/why_do_we_love_rounded_corners.html

    Yes 2005 and before clues about this turns up. Yes before Windows 7 was released.

    Microsoft Interface Design people for Windows 8 have had their had in the sand paying no attention to the research.

  30. Ted says:

    ““Yes, the superficial resemblance is AMPLE proof”

    I’m glad you agree.”

    Do all FOSS/Linux/ABM types have such a blind spot for irony and sarcasm?

    @oiaohm;

    “Maou Sadao there are some interesting userablity studies out there comparing round to square buttons.”

    Link? You usually have no trouble linking to something, even if it doesn’t actually back you up. A peer-reviewed scientific study (which I’m sure these were, not just some random blogger.) should present you with no problems.

  31. oiaohm says:

    Maou Sadao anyone who had used AOL interface also saw text in boxes with images in the same style as metro.

    Its a little more than superficial resemblance. There is some user interface functionality style identical as well.

    Yes there is always a worry when you are superficially close to an old failed interface. Its even more of a worry when interface functionality style has been copied from that.

    Some of how metro works lines up with MS Bob as well.

    Feature comparing Metro interface due raise some concern about incompatibility with humans due to the failed interfaces it lines up with. Remember MS thought bob was the best thing since sliced bread until it tanked. Also AOL thought their interface was the best thing since sliced bread.

    There seams to be a trend to be drawing to the box style interface. Then when you give it to people separability nightmares hit.

    Maou Sadao there are some interesting userablity studies out there comparing round to square buttons. This include round and square with round corners, square with drop shadow and square. If you pull one of those studies you will find something really bad about metro.

    Round and Square with round corners humans click on faster than square with drop shadow. Worst of all is just square.

    Yes one quick look at Metro and there is a user interface fail pointing right at you. Human brain for moving around the physical world has some pre programmed short cuts. One of those is focusing in on sharp corner shapes. Pointer having a sharp Conner shape good you want the human looking and lining up on tip. Edge of window again good since you want user looking there. Button boarder its bad because you want user eye going to centre of button.

    So yes Windows 8 has copied one of the UI failures of AOL old interface. This is most likely some of the frustration users are suffering from.

  32. jason says:

    “Ah, I forgot the emoticons for the retards!”

    You don’t need to bother, we all know you’re a retard.

  33. Maou Sadao says:

    I’m glad you agree.

    Ah, I forgot the emoticons for the retards! My bad. I mistakenly thought the capitalization was clear enough.

  34. jason says:

    “Yes, the superficial resemblance is AMPLE proof”

    I’m glad you agree.

  35. Maou Sadao says:

    Wrong, it doesn’t look new, it looks like AOL for kids (from 1996)

    Yes, the superficial resemblance is AMPLE proof. Here’s a better version of that AOL picture. You can clearly see the influence of the German modernist school.

  36. lpbbear says:

    “A rather crude plaint for a dignified discussion, don’t you agree?”

    No.

  37. jason says:

    “Windows 8 represents an effort to shake up the customer expectations and put something that at least looks new and different into play”

    Wrong, it doesn’t look new, it looks like AOL for kids (from 1996)

    http://wireframe.co.za/wiredin/?p=720

  38. oiaohm says:

    bw you just stated what the problem is.

    –Certainly the problem that PC makes and Microsoft and Apple also face is the fact that everything worth doing via PC for the mass market has already been done and even re-done, sometimes more than once.–

    This basically means stationary target.

    Maou Sadao Linux is becoming more graphical. Less masochists.

    Most people don’t understand why Linux has been so Command line driven for Admin stuff. The answer is the sad reality X11 suxs from a security point of view. Even suxed when it was first ported to Linux. Its taken 8 attempts to get at least one replacement to X11 with video card maker support.

    So bw one thing worth doing on Linux that has not been done is drop X11 for good.

    There is also something else.
    bw
    –Certainly they will not allow anything to stay that could ever drive the mainstream market to Linux.–
    Microsoft has tried to break ODF up. Has failed. This is one of the big bits. The enforcement of open standards is breaking up the need for Microsoft.

    Even Australia Government that is the most stubborn MS centric system you can get. http://delimiter.com.au/2013/05/29/reversal-australian-govt-picks-odf-doc-standard/ Is going ODF.

    bw what more innovation do you really need in office documents. Microsoft has tried to force forwards OOXML this has not been fully successful either. The version of OOXML with option to include secrets has been rejected by most governments.

    Interesting thing is Lotus Symphony sidebar is coming to both Libreoffice and Apache OpenOffice. That fairly much will make the interface closed to identical to MS Office 2003.

    So the question now is has MS Office from 2003 to now improved in required usability.

    bw that is the position we are in. There is such a thing as Good Enough. ODF standard and the Free Office suits supporting it are getting Good Enough.

  39. bw says:

    “How bout getting your favorite company to pull its head out of its ass and get it to quit shoving shit down consumers throats?”

    A rather crude plaint for a dignified discussion, don’t you agree?

    Certainly the problem that PC makes and Microsoft and Apple also face is the fact that everything worth doing via PC for the mass market has already been done and even re-done, sometimes more than once. Their is nothing new under the sun and so the suppliers have moved to styling changes due to lack of true innovation. The bad news for Microsoft and their partners is that Apple is now the leader of that pack in terms of freshness if not yet in sales totals.

    Windows 8 represents an effort to shake up the customer expectations and put something that at least looks new and different into play. I think that it has succeeded in at least making a splash. Many drudges dislike it since old buttons are not in the old places. I have some problems with that myself.

    On the other hand, it does put a little adventure back into using my PCs and makes you think a little harder than you might have had to do with Windows 7. I think they will now make some incremental changes to suit the requests pouring in. They have been shown to be adept at that in the past. Certainly they will not allow anything to stay that could ever drive the mainstream market to Linux.

  40. Maou Sadao says:

    Kind of like after a while you can get used to daily root canals and its….uhhhh….ok.

    Funny, as I know for a fact that Linux users have long since persuaded themselves of the usefulness of getting skullf*ked every day. Linux is the perfect boot camp for masochists.

  41. oiaohm says:

    bw how would you fell if it turns out that the developer behind startisback.com is the same developer who removed the feature from windows.

    Remember Microsoft did offer rewards to there own internal developers to release applications in the new app store.

    This is why its critical to know who you are supporting. http://www.classicshell.net/ is older. Could Microsoft include classic shell in the app store as a free program yes they could.

  42. lpbbear says:

    “How about “penny wise and pound foolish” for you guys?”

    How bout getting your favorite company to pull its head out of its ass and get it to quit shoving shit down consumers throats?

    The best I have have heard said of Windows 8 generally goes something like “Well, after a while you get used to it and its…uhhhh…ok”

    Kind of like after a while you can get used to daily root canals and its….uhhhh….ok.

  43. bw says:

    “And on and on and on…”

    How about “penny wise and pound foolish” for you guys? lol

  44. matchrocket says:

    “for a pittance”
    “hardly costs anything at all”
    “pocket change”
    “a trip to MacDonald’s”

    And on and on and on…

  45. oiaohm says:

    bw http://www.classicshell.net/ is free.

    I have not been able to find the company behind startisback.com clearly. Installing software without a good clue of who is behind it or means to audit source code is taking quite a risk long term.

  46. bw says:

    I say that you are just making hot air by japing at Windows 8 features. I happen to agree with a lot of people that the Start button’s going away was the most shocking change from Windows 7. Plenty of alternatives existed for running one’s old programs conveniently, but they all took some getting used to.

    Before I got to that stage, I found StartIsBack, available from a lot of sources, even the Windows app store, for a pittance. See

    http://www.startisback.com/#home-tab

    for some screen shots and a discussion. I am now able to use the best of both worlds. Maybe Ubuntu can copy the idea.

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