18 Years Too Late, M$ Realizes IE Was A Huge Mistake

"Reducing the power and access of the browser to the OS is a great way to minimize the attack possibilities of the hacker,"
see Browsers pose the greatest threat to enterprise, Microsoft reports

Well, better late than never. Instead of vapourware tomorrow, though, I recommend businesses install GNU/Linux today and get sane IT promptly. While many businesses have spent untold $billions picking malware out of their teeth in the last decade or more, those businesses using GNU/Linux instead of M$’s OS have been getting on with business.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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23 Responses to 18 Years Too Late, M$ Realizes IE Was A Huge Mistake

  1. oiaohm says:

    bw 1995-07-11 is the packaging date of Windows 95 release in 1995. Not allowed to use actions at that time to effect competition.

    3 months watch dogs leave 1995-12-31 SP1 windows 95 breaking that is produced. Yes MS exported there internal time stamps in those days.

  2. oiaohm says:

    bw Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson both cases.

    In fact the 1995 ruling is why IE is not in the first release of Win95. Doing something Anti-trust at the time would have brought issues getting the 1995 settlement. Yes Jackson was looking for any reason to hit MS harder.

    http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
    This link of Aieee a Ballhogg is the 1997 case. He has got minor-ally confused.

    –December 11, 1997: In a preliminary injunction, Jackson orders Microsoft to stop requiring PC makers to ship Internet Explorer along with Windows 95.–

    The error starts here. Most overviews don’t mention that it only applies to Windows 95a/SP1+ or Windows 95(1996+). So people make the presume it covers all versions of Windows 95 including the 1995 what is incorrect. Yes they need to be corrected on that.

    –In Aug 1995, Windows 1995 was pushed out the door, infamously full of bugs and with MSIE smeared throughout the system.–

    Sub tract the dates from this ie Aug 1995. And it exactly what is described in the preliminary injection 1997 referring to Windows 95a/SP1+. bw that is the problem.

    You got more wrong bw. You did not correct the correct thing. One date wrong is no reason to attempt to throw the complete thing out.

    Yes the Aug 1995 signing date ok bw when does a product to be released in Aug 1995 have to go into production. Yes prior to Aug 1995. Yes Microsoft could not release Win95 with Internet explorer merged 1995 because the 1994 agreement had not been signed off by judge yet.

    Problem here I did read what Aieee a Ballhogg had typed with understanding. Bw you read without understanding. So go off on a bogus incorrect tangent.

  3. bw says:

    “please check you facts before attempting to quote things.”

    You have escalated your status from silly twit to boring jackass, oaiohm. You stick your OCD nose in to everything, it seems, but your reading comprehension is as retarded as your writing skill, filled with massive misspellings and tortured grammar. You miss the point of the exchange entirely.

    The ballhog fellow was insisting that IE was put into Win95 to beat some sort of deadline based on the Judge Jackson decree in 1995 that validated Microsoft’s 1994 agreement. My comments were about that mistaken point and, if you had bothered to get someone to help you with reading my words, you would not have looked so foolish in coming up with some hair-splitting claim that only served to prove my point while making a poor attempt at berating me in the process.

    Get some help and maybe you can yet become someone of value to society.

  4. oiaohm says:

    bw In fact you are a incompetent idiot again please check you facts before attempting to quote things. A wikipedia search at min is not hard..
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_95#Editions

    bw
    –IE never shipped with Win95–
    This is bogus it ships with all bar 1 version. And is in the first service pack to apply to that version. So no you did not have to pay for the plus pack to get IE. In fact the service pack includes version 2.0 where the plus pack only includes 1.0 of Internet explorer.

    –the antitrust case was a done deal in 1994.–
    October 27, 1997 is when browser Anti-trust case starts. 1994 refers to a prior anti-trust case. Yes I know it confusing but MS has had many anti-trust cases. http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2002/11/35212 Yes the browser anti-trust case is over the 1996 bundling.

    Year of Windows 95 bundling IE this is Windows 95a. 1996 and 1996 SP1 for Windows 95. Aieee a Ballhogg yes get your year right in future. Its clearly started in the Windows 95 Editions.

    Aieee a Ballhogg please don’t be a twit with history in future basically. Its not hard to double check dates these days.

    bw The plus pack only contains IE version 1.0. IE version 2.0 was included in the SP1 release of Windows 95.

    Windows 95 (retail and OEM) 1995 fairly much suxed balls to install. Its the full floppy edition(only full floppy edition of Windows 95). All versions of Windows 95 to come on CD include IE. 1996 releases on basically.

  5. bw says:

    “In Aug 1995, Windows 1995 was pushed out the door, infamously full of bugs and with MSIE smeared throughout the system….It only served to try to illegally extend the desktop monopoly into the web.”

    Not even a good try in my opinion. IE never shipped with Win95 and the antitrust case was a done deal in 1994. It was introduced after the launch of Win95 as an item in the plus package which wasn’t even free back then. $15, if I remember. I sort of remember having to get the same thing for Win98.

    In any case, everybody I knew that bothered with the internet back then used Navigator and got it from their ISP as a free beta release. You could buy the release version for about $80, but nobody did that.

    I remember trying IE in the plus pack and thinking it was rather retarded. I didn’t use it until the Win2K days where it came with the OS installation.

  6. bw says:

    “We love the sheep.”

    What’s that I smell? The fertilizer from your fertile mind? lol.

  7. bw says:

    “I believe the judge got it right. ”

    And your law degree is from where?

    If the batteries in your radio had not died at that point, you would have heard that the judge’s findings of law were tossed out by the appeals court and the judge was chastised for his bias and fired from the case. A more qualified judge was then appointed and the matter was wrapped up to everyone’s satisfaction. That was more than 10 years ago, but you can still find the story if you search.

    “M$ agreed not to do those things and their monopoly has slid as a result.”

    Ironically, they were no longer doing most of the things that the final settlement proscribed. They were not very effective. Their monopoly, by the way, seems to have been in regard to “client operating system software for x86 architecture microprocessors”. Apple’s products were not competition since they used another processor at the time and Linux was dismissed because it was a server OS. That is in your oft-cited findings of fact. Look that up, too.

    I personally do not see much of a change in the “monopoly” situation that existed back then. Windows still totally dominates the traditional Wintel computer business. Customers do have a wider choice for x86, since they can buy a Mac instead of some Windows machine, but who cares about the processor architecture anymore except some dweeb here and there?

    Your version of how the monopoly is in tatters is your odd view that a phone or tablet is the same thing as a Wintel computer and so the unit volumes of traditional PCs and these new devices can be compared to one another to forecast doom for Microsoft.

    The business itself is starting to deteriorate, as you have gleefully noted for months here, but Microsoft still has it tightly gripped and, as the last week’s numbers show, is continuing to set record sales and profit results. They are not going to abandon their business as long as they are clearing tens of billions of dollars annually.

    You are missing the big picture.

  8. Aieee a Ballhogg says:

    In Aug 1995 judge Jackson approved the consent decree:
    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/news/2002/11/35212

    In Aug 1995, Windows 1995 was pushed out the door, infamously full of bugs and with MSIE smeared throughout the system.

    Technically MSIE was a mistake. It only served to try to illegally extend the desktop monopoly into the web. Over the years, MSIE was (and is) a constant source of embarrassment for its lack of standards compliance and, worse, its piss poor security.
    http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

    Opera Mini has carved out a good niche in the mobile market, that’s where Opera has always been a key player.

  9. oiaohm says:

    bw
    –Sheep? lol. You are a lamer and do not sell or buy at all. The players are buying MSFT right now while you are just hoping for some disaster to hit Microsoft.–

    I have sold at the moment out of MSFT. Q1 was a good time to buy.

    http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MSFT#symbol=msft;range=1y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

    Oct. 18, 2012 the MS share price starts going down due to invalid report. Nicely hits bottom in December. Nicely comes up with Q2 report.

    The 1Q bogus loss appearance causes a huge number of sheep to put there shares on the market. At undervalued price.

    I acquired shares in December and sold off now. When you read the sheets see over a billion dollars deferred and you know it has to come back in before end of financial year.

    bw I am a short term holder of shares. We operate on the sheep principle. People buying and selling shares don’t know any of the financial tricks.

    Financial trickery is what we look for its a very simple way to make an easy profit.

    Basically to make easy profit in the share market you want to be doing the exact opposite to the sheep.

    As the saying goes buy low sell high. Buying at the moment is buying while it high with a nice possibility of dropping low in the near future.

    bw where is the profit buying a share while its high. So maybe in the 4Q I might buy some MSFT again. That is if the sheep are selling it.

    Yes after first quarter results were published was when to buy MSFT if you wanted to make a profit.

    3Q results is when to sell. Because 4Q has no deferred income to cover a disaster.

    So last Quarter did I make any money yes due to other share sales not MSFT shares because I was holding them.

    bw without sheep making as much profit in the share market would be hard. We love the sheep. They normally don’t do that financially well. Yes they are like real sheep with a shepherd. The shepherd makes all the profit.

  10. bw wrote, “there was nothing illegal at all about their IE promotions. That was determined by a long, drawn out court case.”

    The judge wrote, “Upon consideration of the Court’s Findings of Fact (“Findings”), filed herein on November 5, 1999, as amended on December 21, 1999, the proposed conclusions of law submitted by the parties, the briefs of amici curiae, and the argument of counsel thereon, the Court concludes that Microsoft maintained its monopoly power by anticompetitive means and attempted to monopolize the Web browser market, both in violation of § 2. Microsoft also violated § 1 of the Sherman Act by unlawfully tying its Web browser to its operating system.”

    I believe the judge got it right. M$ settled rather than fight longer. M$ agreed not to do those things and their monopoly has slid as a result.

  11. bw wrote, “Their success is recognized by people who actually know something based on their bidding up the stock on that news. “

    You think WSJ doesn’t know stock markets? See Computer Sales in Free Fall

    Notice how few of the knowledgeable people quoted in that article share your beliefs. Note that much of the negative sentiment is based on PC shipments. That all the other income streams except perhaps Xbox are tied to that means the downside is leveraged several times. How long before the world figures out that if they don’t need as many PCs running that other OS they don’t need as many of M$’s office suites or servers?

  12. bw says:

    “Uh… buying up Netscape’s product just to keep it out of the hands of consumers, making exclusive deals with Netscape’s “partners”:”

    The comment was in regard to the statement: “By getting W95 in the stores before the sanctions, he was able to ignore / prevent them”

    I don’t know what you are citing, none of it makes any sense at all. Even the date is way past the Win95 intro and the 1994 settlement with the FTC and DOJ. There are a couple of other things wrong with your charge, too, the first being that IE1.0 and 2.0 in that time frame was pretty awful and pretty inferior to Navigator, so they had to work pretty hard for partners. Second, there was nothing illegal at all about their IE promotions. That was determined by a long, drawn out court case.

    Microsoft won that one, losing only some minor points in regard to practices that were seen to be monopoly maintenance. No harm to competition, the court ruled, and so no fines or corrective actions were ordered.

  13. bw says:

    “they have lost 1/2 a billion in the 3Q”

    They had operating income of $7,600,000,000, more than ever before. What if they “only” had $6,600,000,000? Do you think they would all stay home, too bummed out to come to work anymore? How much did you make last quarter? Anything?

  14. bw wrote, “Antitrust had nothing to do with any of that.”

    Uh… buying up Netscape’s product just to keep it out of the hands of consumers, making exclusive deals with Netscape’s “partners”:

    “I’ve told them the only way we can consider them being in the Windows box is if AT&T gives IE exclusive or very very preferential treatment (ala what we have with AOL). Parity is completely unacceptable for them to be in the box.”

    Notice that M$ considers every PC as their box to use as weapons against Netscape. That’s wrong on so many levels. AT&T and AOL were wrong to go along with M$’s attempt to control the web end to end and exclude Netscape.

    see US DOJ v M$ exhibit 183.

    If M$ had the better product and more manpower, why waste resources smashing Netscape illegally? They could have beaten them fair and square in the market. Hint: M$ had an inferior product and consumers, OEMs and ISPs were preferring Netscape. M$ had to leverage the OS-monopoly to punish anyone who supported/preferred Netscape.

  15. bw says:

    “So sheep sell 1Q(even that this quarter is fine) and buy 3Q(even that this quarter is bad).”

    Sheep? lol. You are a lamer and do not sell or buy at all. The players are buying MSFT right now while you are just hoping for some disaster to hit Microsoft.

  16. oiaohm says:

    bw
    –Whether it comes in this month, last month, or next month, it is money in the bank and over the year they are way up.–

    The problem is it matters. Every release of windows include Vista the documented flop did MS over year income go up at release point. OEM having to stock up.

    The failed OS’s drop back after the release point.

    bw if 4Q mirrors 3Q. There is a possibility that over the year they have not gone up at all. If anything slightly backwards.

    Remember what I said about cooking the books.

    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q1/default.aspx
    Here Microsoft defers income $1,356
    The result is that what should have looked like a level month to prior years is lower than prior years.
    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q2/default.aspx
    Here they defer $1,329
    And pull back ($783)
    So current amount deferred $1902. And the real amount of deferred interference.
    $546 drop to Q2 revenue report.

    http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY13/Q3/default.aspx

    $1,658 is pulled back here.
    Leaving a max of $244 is deferred income.

    So there is no deferred income for 4Q to cover a massive loss.

    So other than magic shuffling of numbers around in the 2013FT Microsoft is only up by about 1 billion.

    Ie Q1 not up. $1,356 this has to be removed to make it the same as last year.

    bw for the complete year so far they are up only 2 billion up in the 2Q is the only above. Without the number shuffling they have lost 1/2 a billion in the 3Q. 4Q if same as third MSFT will only be up 1 Billion. What is inside Microsoft fluctuation of income in a non OS release year. So possible by Q2 2014 every bit of Windows 8 entry to market income gain will be lost.

    bw Deferred income its down right important where they got it from. That they fact that some of the deferred income lowers 1Q lower than prior year has to be accounted for.

    bw of course you want to play its not important where it comes from. It becomes very important when what would have been a level month to prior years is made look like a losing month to prior years.

    So sheep sell 1Q(even that this quarter is fine) and buy 3Q(even that this quarter is bad).

    The effect of deferred income make a Good Quarter look bad and a bad Quarter look good.

  17. bw says:

    “I didn’t pay much attention to such things back then…”

    With such a misinformed post, you apparently didn’t pay any attention for a long time, even up to the present. Opera is a loser now and has been since its beginnings. Microsoft tried to get Netscape to do the Windows-supplied browser for free, telling them that they could give away a basic version and upsell users who wanted a Pro version. Netscape was too stuck up to jump on that back then. I bet they are kicking themselves now!

    Anyway, IE was originally Mosaic code purchased from Spyglass, which was formed by old Mosaic developers who didn’t get into the Netscape organization. It was a real POS and Microsoft eventually put their own people on it and it became the most widely used browser in history.

    Antitrust had nothing to do with any of that.

  18. bw says:

    “George Wilson without the deferred income from the 2Q the 3Q is down compared to the year before 3Q.”

    Pretty lame thought. Microsoft offered upgrades to Windows 7 and collected some $1.1B it seems. They recognized that revenue in the past quarter although a some of it was closed before that. No matter how you slice it, it was revenue for Windows 8 and that is money for Microsoft. Whether it comes in this month, last month, or next month, it is money in the bank and over the year they are way up.

    Their success is recognized by people who actually know something based on their bidding up the stock on that news. You are just a no-nothing with some confusing posts about things that you do not seem to understand. Follow the money and you won’t look like such a jerk.

  19. Aieee a Ballhogg says:

    I didn’t pay much attention to such things back then, but from what I remember Bill was facing impending anti-trust sanctions. He got the date that the sanctions would be announced and had people working like dogs to a) spread MSIE through as much of the system as possible before then b) get something, anything on the store shelves before the decision. By getting W95 in the stores before the sanctions, he was able to ignore / prevent them.

    If it had been only about providing a web browser for the OS, he would have just bought out Opera and distributed that. Then again, maybe not. M$ only buys out bottom of the barrel apps and Opera has always been top of the line.

  20. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson without the deferred income from the 2Q the 3Q is down compared to the year before 3Q.

  21. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson those parties working with each other historically has not happened. Notice Gnome, KDE and Unity have formally agreed to work with each other.

    At long last the X11 desktop wars can put away the battle axes.

    –Also, business customers are very happy with Microsoft, as the latest financial report clearly states: Business Division’s revenue up, Enterprise & Tools Division’s revenue up, ever more customers adopting Office 365–

    George Wilson very careful reading those numbers the 3Q has a lot of deferred income from the 2Q. Lot of that would have been OEM’s and Retailers stocking up for Christmas for big sales of Windows 8 machines that did not happen.

  22. George Wilson says:

    http://dot.kde.org/2013/04/17/report-freedesktop-summit

    Even more collaboration! Can you believe it?

    Also, business customers are very happy with Microsoft, as the latest financial report clearly states: Business Division’s revenue up, Enterprise & Tools Division’s revenue up, ever more customers adopting Office 365.

    Looks like we have a dead patient here, Pogson.

  23. oiaohm says:

    http://dot.kde.org/2013/04/17/report-freedesktop-summit

    There are a lot of things at the moment that fall into did pigs just learn to fly.

    2013 is being a very strange year.

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