Ditching “8”

Save $100 on Any Windows 8 Touch-Screen PC.

“Windows 8 then failed to shift in significant volumes over the Christmas shopping period, leaving Best Buy and other shops stocked up with unsold inventory. One senior source at a major PC maker told The Reg consumers snapped up Windows 7 PCs rather than machines running Windows 8. ®”

see The Register, Best Buy takes axe to touchy Windows 8 PCs – lops $100 off price

Chuckle. The world is “clearing” “8”. Is there any better proof that M$’s house is crumbling? Clearing is what retailers do when they want to make room for other stock or they are tired of stuff filling shelves without selling. They will throw away most if not all of their profit in doing so. One of M$’s cash-cows is drying up.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

17 Responses to Ditching “8”

  1. kozmcrae says:

    @ Loser

    Oh sure, now they’re meaningless. And, where am I lying? Just facts and numbers. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean they’re lies. The fact is that 6,246 sales for Best Buy for a new Microsoft flagship product during that time period is piss poor. Horrendous. Bad enough to warrant a $100 price cut. I know you’d like to stop discussing this topic since it’s kind of a sore subject now. If that’s the case then just don’t respond to my comments. Simple.

    I think you’re working yourself up to a meltdown Loser. That’s how it always ends for you here. Maybe it’s time to cool your jets, take a break before you’re forced to. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

  2. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser they are many things to say if a survey is worth a cracker.

    kozmcrae rough maths is correct to partly work out how well balance the figures are.
    Following conditions you need to workout is survey is correct.

    1)size Ok we were told that. 6246
    2) spread. 6,246 is not a good spread size is when you divide down to how many per location. They don’t say like a min of 2 per location. At 3 there is a very good chance many locations did not provide any numbers. So best buy numbers could be badly bias because the average spread number per location is so low.
    3) Contents of the survey questions and answer processing. –“somewhat” or “very much.”– Somewhat is very much answer from a person who had not made up mind.

    Also be careful with the compares.

    4) Human tricks. Like you can paint a room a different colour and at first a person might feel some different emotion about it. But as time wears on that effect will wear off. In fact windows 8 default colours contain some human tricks. So in 12 months time the survey of Windows 8 might read the same and PC as the effect wears off.

  3. Dr Loser says:

    Since you love my arithmetic so much, I’ll do some more.

    Look, McCrae, numbers don’t mean anything on their own. If I want to divide 6,246 by 1,250 I don’t need you (although it’s nice of you to correct your numerator from 3 to 6,246. I think we can both agree that it’s better to be accurate than snarky). I can use a calculator or even approximate the calculation in my head.

    And it’s meaningless.

    I don’t know whether you’ve encountered these things called “surveys” before. Broadly speaking they use a representative sample of a statistical population in order to draw meaningful conclusions about that population as a whole.

    Note the term “representative sample.” A sampling ratio of 1:1 makes no sense whatsoever. Your conclusion that each store had, on average, five Windows 8 customers is therefore spurious.

    And I’m sure you know that, because you are an intelligent man.

    So why do you keep lying?

  4. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser is forgetting supply chain lag.

    Retail for Christmas starts out hopeful and orders what they think is enough to meet demand.

    Next Novembers order is not going to look as good if they still have huge amounts of volume sitting around.

    Windows 7 what is at Amazon is 2011 Christmas stock. 2012 is Windows 8 Christmas stock.

    Ideal if the products are moving well is that the stock is mostly gone. There were Windows 7 run out sales leading to Christmas that did not move much.

    End of this year there is no new release. There is no need to be ordering that many new models for Christmas. Welcome to crunch. If I was Microsoft I would not be looking forwards to Q4 2013 and Q1 2014 in the windows departments if the end of life of XP does not drive purchases.

  5. kozmcrae says:

    @ Dr. Loser

    “Gee, Dougman, you suspect that “three” lowballs the number of Win8 laptops sold? It probably highballs your ability with math. The only percentages you can get from a population of 3 are 0%, 33%, 66% and 100%; not the percentages quoted.”

    And you can’t read. dougman didn’t write that. And if you need to point out arithmetic errors, well then, you haven’t got much else to report.

    Like I said, no matter how you spin it Doctor, and you are spinning like a top for your beloved Microsoft, they are not in the position they were hoping to be in at this time. It hasn’t worked out for them and as a result, it hasn’t worked out for Best Buy either. And it hasn’t worked out for HP. That’s why they released an Android tablet and have more in the works.

    Windows 8 has been a real disappointment for everyone involved with it. Expect Windows 9 to come along sooner than Windows 7 came to Vista’s rescue.

    Since you love my arithmetic so much, I’ll do some more. The number in the survey was 6,246. There are 1250* Best Buy stores. The average works out to 5 per store from when Windows 8 was released to late November 2012. Not exactly selling like hotcakes.

    *That number doesn’t include Best Buy’s subsidiaries so the 5/store number could be generous.

  6. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser Amazon ordered even larger volumes of Windows 7 Devices than Best buy did.

    –Correct they cannot restock Windows 7 for most of the PC product lines. —

    Note I did not say that you could not buy a Windows 7 device else where. I said cannot restock. Best buy will make no profit buying from Amazon and onselling.

    Also you are a complete loser. Did you not read your search results.

    You search returns everything with any one of the following words Windows, 7 and Laptop. It even lists chromebooks and Windows 8 devices.

    No wonder bing suxs if people like you are working on it Dr Loser who cannot use a search engine of course it has to. The correct answer you don’t even need to search for go into the catalogue.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=node%3D565108&field-keywords= Now of course that figure is still wrong. Because amazon is new and used. So
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_n_condition-type_0?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565108%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224371011&bbn=565108&ie=UTF8&qid=1361919680&rnid=2224369011
    New only.

    Right now you have a issue. Windows XP that is going to go end of life next year. Amazon still has 48 lines with brand new XP machines. Lots of those with more than 10 left. If there is less than 10 Amazon notes on the site how many they have.

    Dr Loser Amazon has not cleared all there new stocks of XP or Vista yet.

    Dr Loser best buy is doing quite well at clearing old inventory. They don’t have old XP or Vista sitting around like amazon does.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_n_operating_system_mrr_3?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565108%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224371011%2Cp_n_operating_system_browse-bin%3A562222011&bbn=565108&ie=UTF8&qid=1361919721&rnid=562215011

    Yes notice lot of the XP ones are not down to only 10 left yet same with the Vista models.

    Dr Loser Amazon product line break down.
    Windows 8 3554
    Windows 7 4902
    Windows Vista 148
    Windows XP 48
    Its fairly much a given at this point Amazon is going to have XP machines new when XP support ends.

    There is a very high probability that Amazon will have New Windows Vista machines when those go end of life in 2017. Same with new Windows 7 machines in 2020. Problem is 4902 models is more than Vista at the change over to Windows 7.

    Notice there is not a single Linux netbook from when the XP machines released left in stock. They sold out.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_n_operating_system_7?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A!493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A565108%2Cp_n_condition-type%3A2224371011%2Cp_n_operating_system_browse-bin%3A6401981011&bbn=565108&ie=UTF8&qid=1361920246&rnid=562215011

    Notice chromebooks are also selling out. Android devices most of those are selling out. As a retailer Chromebooks and Android devices are looking good.

    Dr Loser all the on-line vendors are showing issues. XP machines have not been made for how many years now. There is a nice large possibility that the machine have been sitting at Amazon long enough that the hard-drive bearing are set solid so will not fire up.

    Dr Loser PC market has been sick for a long time. The problem is it is progressively getting worse.

    XP loses to retailers would have been more if it life had not been extended. Since those models would have had to been written off already.

    Dr Loser the big thing here retailers like Amazon are not clearing stocks of Windows Machines. They are fairly much able to clear everything else.

    Best buy is in the horible location where they have to clear what they have. They have way smaller warehouse than Amazon.

    Dr Loser the small suffer first. The large have space to absorb the problem for a while longer. But even amazon will not be able to tolerate like 2000 models Windows 7 machines around for the release of windows 9.

    So in 2 years Windows 7 stocks have to get to acceptable levels.

  7. dougman says:

    However, since you insist on this nitwit proposition that there are no longer any Windows 7 laptops for sale out there, let’s try, ooh, I don’t know, Amazon. 34,253 results good enough for you?

    Factually, the 34K number you posited, is in fact more like 6200 units and with further study. One will find 4900 units are new and 1800 are used. Do you honestly believe people are that stupid, naive and gullible?

    When you queried Amazon’s database, it fed back everything to include computer accessories.

    18K computer accessories count as Windows 7 laptops? Using the ol’ M$ fuzzy math again are we? Perhaps, the fault lies with a spreadsheet error in Excel or perhaps its user error?? ID10T???

  8. Dr Loser says:

    Actually it isn’t important that the retailer is making a good profit.

    Cleared is cleared is cleared.

    What’s important is that the retailer has a good business going forward, which is questionable in the case of Best Buy. It’s a chain that hasn’t adjusted very well to the onset of sales over the internet. But that has nothing to do with Windows 7, let alone Windows 8.

    However, since you insist on this nitwit proposition that there are no longer any Windows 7 laptops for sale out there, let’s try, ooh, I don’t know, Amazon.

    34,253 results good enough for you?

    Of course, I’m just picking a single supplier, in exactly the way that Robert picked a single supplier. However, I am doing my best not to misrepresent the results of that pick, because I know I have biased it in order to make a point.

    You can wave your little paws in the air as much as you like, Hamster, but all you have is speculation.

    To repeat: Best Buy conducted a survey of 5,997 more customers than Dougman can count, even without taking his shoes and socks off. That survey of {Dougman numbers} + 5997 led them to conclude that the potential customer appeal of a Windows 8 touch-screen device would be about 50% higher if they lowered the price by $100 on average.

    They went back to the suppliers (including Intel and Microsoft, and I’d be interested in the details on that) and negotiated a $100 drop over the board.

    We shall await the results.

    Now, and again I am going to have to repeat myself, if the market clears at that price, then Windows 8 on tablets is a going concern. It is particularly a going concern because there are presently issues in the supply chain for touch screen technology, and it is reasonable to assume that, once those problems are solved, the actual hardware price will drop by roughly $100.

    But these are details, and they belong to the real world of marketing and merchandising and even accountancy, and I am afraid, Hamster, that they are far beyond your very limited — though I will admit, extraordinarily imaginative — ken.

    Chuckle.

  9. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser Other than the fact most Windows 7 stock was already 12 months old by the time Windows 8 was released.

    –1) The market has cleared for Windows 7 laptops, at least as far as Best Buy is concerned.
    2) Best Buy is unable to restock their inventory of Windows 7 laptops in order to meet demand.–

    Correct they cannot restock Windows 7 for most of the PC product lines. Dr Loser Windows 7 are no longer in production except by custom order.

    There is a difference between cleared and sold out. Cleared is not good in all cases. Cleared you could have had to do discounts to move it. This happened to the left over Windows 7 machines from 2011 Christmas. Windows 8 is looking like the 2012 Christmas supply again will do all year and then some. Next is tax time and start of school year 2012 these did not do well either.

    –In macro-economic terms, the market “clears” for a product when that product is pitched at a price acceptable to consumers.–
    Correct but its important that the retailer is making good profit.

    Dr Loser
    –The side benefit to clearing inventory by jacking up demand is that, when the price of hardware components (and amortized production lines, and so on) drops by that same $100, you are now back to where you were in December — effectively charging the same margin for the same product.–

    To buyer it might be back to where it was in December. To the retailer no its not. They have the storage cost for that time and the lack of income because product lines were no moving.

    Remember best buy most likely will fear ordering any more Windows 7. Since this will increase the risk of them being completely stuck with the Windows 8 inventory.

    Dr Loser this is the problem the demard for large volumes of PC’s has not been there for over 2 years.

    Sales numbers of PC started dropping in 2011 kept on dropping 2012. Microsoft is kinda luckly in 2012 OEM cross fingers than Windows 8 would sell well.

  10. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    In macro-economic terms, the market “clears” for a product when that product is pitched at a price acceptable to consumers. Considering that Best Buy has no Windows 7 laptops in stock (I can only go by Robert’s choice of links, otherwise I would be making unfair comparisons), one of two things has happened:

    1) The market has cleared for Windows 7 laptops, at least as far as Best Buy is concerned.
    2) Best Buy is unable to restock their inventory of Windows 7 laptops in order to meet demand.

    Neither case indicates that Microsoft’s cash cow is dying (it might be, but these figures do not support that). You can’t really argue with the numbers in this case: zero is zero is zero. And zero implies that the market has “cleared.”

    As for the follow-up nonsense:

    That scenario probably low-balls the real figure but since they gave no real numbers, the real numbers must be an embarrassment.

    Gee, Dougman, you suspect that “three” lowballs the number of Win8 laptops sold? It probably highballs your ability with math. The only percentages you can get from a population of 3 are 0%, 33%, 66% and 100%; not the percentages quoted.

    It also probably highballs your ability to follow what you are reading (in the links) dispassionately. The survey was, what, 6,000 purchasers? I forget the exact number. But not 3.

    Chuckle.

    Once again, none of you have a clue about marketing. Companies will routinely drop the price of inventory in order to reach the point where the market “clears.” Have none of you ever bought a car, to take one obvious case where this happens all the time?

    The side benefit to clearing inventory by jacking up demand is that, when the price of hardware components (and amortized production lines, and so on) drops by that same $100, you are now back to where you were in December — effectively charging the same margin for the same product.

    This really isn’t difficult stuff to understand. If you’d take your blinkers off and stop this silly premature crowing, you might be able to follow the logic.

    Having said which you may still be right and Windows 8 may still be a doomed product. And your implicit conclusion (unsupported by any argument) that this would spell the doom of Microsoft might also still be right.

    I’m open to both of those possibilities, but I’m not especially keen on watching a bunch of know-nothings reach spurious conclusions based upon very limited data; particularly when that data (the 6,000-ish survey) was clearly gathered for entirely separate purposes.

  11. dougman says:

    The M$ pimps would live to sell you on the fact WIndows 8 is doing great! However, in reality, it is doing poorly.

    http://mashable.com/2012/12/26/windows-8-problem/

    Sales of Windows PCs dropped 13% year-over-year for the period between October and the first week December, a statistic first reported by the New York Times. Considering that’s the exact time Windows 8 devices arrived on the market, it’s pretty damning evidence the new operating system isn’t catching on.

    Certainly, some people are downloading Windows 8 for upgrades without buying new hardware, but let’s get real: Windows 8 is all about the hardware. The new OS is tailor-made for touch screens, and touch-screen PCs — the multi-finger kind that Windows 8 was designed to work with — have only been available since Oct. 26. As we all know, Microsoft went so far as to build its own tablet to showcase the platform.

    Also, the thing to remember is when it comes to Windows 8 and the Windows infrastructure in general. One must purchase, additional software, to make the software you purchased (Windows 8) work and function.

  12. kozmcrae says:

    Yes Dr. Loser, they loved the OS so much this is what they really said, “The *discount* (my emphasis) was prompted by the results of a survey conducted by Best Buy in December. According to the results of the survey, 74% of shoppers who purchased a touchscreen device reported that they liked Windows 8 “somewhat” or “very much.””

    Read more: http://www.newsforshoppers.com/best-buy-discount-100-off-windows-8-touchscreen-pcs/36712138/#ixzz2M0tKo4xL

    We don’t know what the percentage of “somewhat” vs “very much” was. Since they weren’t forthcoming on that metric we can surmise that “very much” wasn’t very much.

    So three people bought a Windows 8 tablet from Best Buy back in December. One returned it, one said it was okay and the third one wasn’t happy with it but kept it because he didn’t know how to delete his porn from it completely.

    That scenario probably low-balls the real figure but since they gave no real numbers, the real numbers must be an embarrassment.

    The truth is, Microsoft and Intel are both funding a massive price cut on their product. No matter how you spin it, it doesn’t bode well for Microsoft. Nothing has been going well for Microsoft in the past couple of years. Microsoft is in its declining years.

  13. Der Balrog says:

    Evidence say the PC market is sick. The question is how sick.

    Sure it’s sick (to some extent). But Robert claims that the sickness can be cured by means of Linux.

  14. Der Balrog says:

    Robert, are the retailers who are “clearing” Windows 8 filling their newfound warehouse space with Linux computers? Or why are you so happy?

    One of M$’s cash-cows is drying up.

    Let me guess: this is your attempt at creating some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy, is it not? Microsoft’s cash-cow was already drying up in 2009, according to you: “The layoffs at M$ show us that the cash cow is drying up.” It must have rained a lot of money, as the cash cow still hasn’t dried up.

    Or is this all more along the lines of Göbbels’ idea that a lie becomes the truth if repeated often enough?

    Or are you simply delusional?

    Choice is a wonderful thing.

  15. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser head in sand much??
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21542485
    All PC vendors are reporting reduced sales. Now this does pose problem. Current stocks are still left over from Christmas.

    –Keep predicting the death of the lap/desktop, although your predictions fly in the face of all available evidence.–

    Evidence say the PC market is sick. The question is how sick. This most likely will equal PC makers pulling back production lines from PC. Like HP entering the Android markets. That is a growing market.

    7 was also having trouble clearing. I do suspect we have a saturation problem. People only need so many devices to get what they need done.

  16. Dr Loser says:

    Chuckle.

    When Best Buy asked recent buyers of Windows 8 PCs how they felt about the operating system, 74% of people who had bought a touchscreen device said they liked Windows 8 “somewhat” or “very much.” About 53% of respondents who bought a conventional Windows 8 PC said they liked the operating system, according to the Best Buy research.

    So we could trust you, Robert, a professed TOOS-hater with absolutely no marketing experience whatsoever? Or we should trust the professionals at Best Buy, who have clearly accepted the evidence that these things sell on the right hardware at the right price.

    I don’t know. Choices, choices. Chuckles, chuckles.

    Incidentally, I tried to find a Windows 7 laptop on the Best Buy site, and there’s not a single one. Apparently they have completely sold their inventory of laptops powered by an operating system supplied by That Redmond Company.

    Keep predicting the death of the lap/desktop, although your predictions fly in the face of all available evidence. It’s a endearing little foible of yours.

Leave a Reply