M$ Doesn’t Believe It’s Own Lies But It’s Willing To Tell Them Privately

Chuckle, M$ found someone to compute that sticking with M$ would have been cheaper than migrating to GNU/Linux despite Munich publishing its data showing huge savings. “almost 87 percent, or 13,000 of 15,000 PCs, are migrated to LiMux”. No wonder M$ won’t publish the report. A leak has already been ridiculed by everyone and his dog in Europe.

see Microsoft won't release study that challenged success of Munich's Linux migration | ITworld.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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14 Responses to M$ Doesn’t Believe It’s Own Lies But It’s Willing To Tell Them Privately

  1. ram wrote, “It also runs best on Linux clusters which are usually beyond the capabilty and motivation of consumer hobbyists.”

    Amen. Mine wants absurd amounts of RAM and it complains about not enough shared memory. It wants many gB.

    So, it may be “professional” in terms of infrastructure but it is way off-scale for cut-and-paste video-editing that is the main use of NLVEs. It looks like it wants to work in RAM rather than on storage devices. This is clearly not optimal once videos are longer than YouTube allows. I guess 30s commercials and such are not “professional”.

  2. ram says:

    Cinelerra is still enormously powerful, far more than any other video editing program/package/suite I’ve found. There are two main versions, the private developers version and the community version. The private developers throw material into the community version periodically (usually after they have used their version to make a few major motion pictures, so there is a feature lag, but the features are well proven when they go in.)

    Cinelerra also supports “back-end” and “render-farm” rendering. That means you can build a Linux cluster and Cinelerra can use all the processors in the cluster. That is a huge advantage for genuine professional video production. Every Linux workstation in a media production house can be used at once to render material.

    Cinelerra has its weaknesses for consumers. Being extremely feature rich it is not particularly easy to use. Documentation is sketchy in parts. It also runs best on Linux clusters which are usually beyond the capabilty and motivation of consumer hobbyists.

    Almost every major movie production house uses Linux, virtually every theatrically released move was rendered on Linux clusters. Cinelerra played, and continues to play, a big part in that.

  3. Thanks for the link. The source code there is complete but there is a C-ish syntax error on my system. I got the Ubuntu binary to run.

  4. oiaohm says:


    It is in deb-multimedia.org its the new repository location of debian-multimedia.org. Both still work since debian-multimedia.org is a dns redirect to deb-multimedia.org.

    You have typo. http://cinelerra.org/about.php You have typed an A instead of a E.

    Why is it not in the main debian repository mostly because its not that simple with patent messes around multimedia production.

    2002-2006 it was about profession grade in that time frame. All of them back then were rough around edges.

    Cinelerra does depend on a lot of codecs that cannot be in mainline debian.

  5. oiaohm wrote, “To be correct LightWorks is the second professional grade editor released for Linux. First was Cinelerra.”

    Cinelarra seems a little rough around the edges to be called “professional”. For instance, why is it not in the Debian repository? It’s in debian-multimedia or deb-multimdia depending on what you believe… see http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php That’s a bunch of codecs, I guess…

    I downloaded the source-code and found Debian/changelog has entries from 2006… That inspires confidence (sarcasm). NEWS is from 2003. It is GPL v2, however. Requires patent-encumbered binaries…

  6. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson –They’re not true. None of them.–

    The 9 listed there is some truth to them. When you get to conferences most are admitted as problems in one way or another. And some of those are seen as good or bad depending on who you talk to. Ubuntu no longer being seen as the great saver is seen as a really good thing. This is reducing the number of Ubuntu only apps appearing.

    Not one of the 9 is a show stopper.

    Robert Pogson
    –Also LightWorks will release the first professional video-editor for GNU/Linux.–

    To be correct LightWorks is the second professional grade editor released for Linux. First was Cinelerra.
    Issues with Cinelerra:
    1 it does not run on Windows as well as Linux. so being problem for users who need to use a Windows application todo a particular task.
    2 it has not kept up with the latest features. So when it was first released on Linux Cinelerra was top. 2002 was it first release. 2004 it took out the award for the best video editor out there any platform. Its just gone down hill a little since them. Avid and lightworks both overtook Cinelerra.

    Maybe Cinelerra will lift now that it will have some competition from lightworks.

    Robert Pogson
    –One of the mysteries of Limux, why it took so long–
    If you read the blogs it becomes very clear. They put on no extra IT staff. They used there general maintenance staff. The migration was done in the spare time that staff had between normal running maintenance of the existing windows system they were stripping out.

    The complete thing could have been done faster if they had thrown more money at it. Yes overtime was a little higher than normal at some points due to issues.

    The method used is slow. The method also did not change every machine in a department at once. This allows room to work around any issue of X application does not run under Linux. This slow migration will still be on going after they hit 14000 machines.

    Rapid migrations is what causes F ups on massive scale. This can be a rapid migration from one version of Windows to another only to find out some core application don’t work as well. High risk migrations are fast. Low risk migrations are slow.

    Windows forces you with end of life and not being rolling upgrading to next version for free into running the risk of rapid migration disaster every 5 to 10 years.

    French police did it faster but they put on extra staff to assist in migration. Rapid migrations have high risks. Munich migration style is quite low risk if you see it threw.

    Something people miss at one point Munich in the migration acquired extra Windows 2000 licenses so that operations would not be distrubed. They had some old software that would not play ball even on XP. A windows migration or Linux migration to something modern did equal recoding some applications. Munich IT problem was Ouch in a big way. Most of those old legacy applications have been replaced by platform neutralish web applications. Some places Munich IT problems are still Ouch.

    So the Munich done windows to windows would have been more expensive than a normal migration.

    The prime rule of the Munich Migration was that operations would not be disturbed. Shocking to most people is that there was a percentage of Windows licenses acquired. Munich is not a case of Linux only or Windows only. Its Windows and Linux with Linux picking up where ever it can.

  7. lpbear wrote, “My guess would be sometime during the next political election cycle in the local government when they can use the report to create bad press for the other side.”

    Oh, they will make wide use of this. Imagine M$’s salesmen trotting it out whenever a big account is thinking of switching…

  8. lpbbear says:

    Not sure what your “9 Things That Are Never Admitted About Open Source” has to do with anything eug? Some I agree with, some I don’t. Just because an author has an opinion and can get it printed on the Internet doesn’t make it gospel. Its the guys opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

    I saw this news item about the MS Munich report and my take is that MS is either really drinking a huge mug of their own “koolaid” or they are holding the report in reserve for a more opportune moment when they can use the “magic” numbering system contained in the report to cause the most damage. My guess would be sometime during the next political election cycle in the local government when they can use the report to create bad press for the other side.

    Ultimately MS does not give a crap whether another transition from Linux to Windows this time costs the taxpayers and local government additional millions as long as they can use the publicity to MS’s favor.

    I see the potential purchase/investment of Dell in the same light. M$FT wasting more billions in yet another attempt to lock the market. That has been the basic MS strategy for decades now. Use the billions they have scammed from one lock in to force another lock in somewhere else.

  9. Der Balrog wrote, “you can be sure that Limux would be rolled back very soon”.

    One of the mysteries of Limux, why it took so long, may not be a fault but a feature designed to ensure GNU/Linux will be so ingrained that now Munich’s IT is somewhat locked-in to GNU/Linux in “mind-share”. That is human inertia is now on the side of GNU/Linux thanks to long exposure and gentle migration. Switching back to M$ would be a jarring experience and quite expensive. There’s no upside to migrating back.

  10. eug wrote, “9 Things That Are Never Admitted About Open Source”.

    There’s a reason those are not admitted. They’re not true. None of them.

    e.g. “Open Source Is Stuck Short of its Goals”

    That’s utter nonsense. FLOSS has never been more vibrant, constantly gaining share in legacy usage and finding new places to operate. e.g. In 2013, many more client machines will be shipping with */Linux than that other OS and Valve/Steam is going great guns on GNU/Linux. Also LightWorks will release the first professional video-editor for GNU/Linux. LibreOffice is huge and growing rapidly. What’s happening in non-FREE software? They are raising prices to compensate for falling share… Like that will work indefinitely.

  11. oiaohm says:

    eug Funny enough none of that 9 have I had people at Linux conferences not openly admit as the way it is.

    The sexism one is always a open topic. How to handle it is a very hard problem. Sexism is not the only group to group problem talked about either. Race and Language barriers others fall into problems.

    Number 8 “Open Source Is Becoming a Monoculture” is flawed. Look at project that fork. Once something enters the range 70 to 80 percent the odds of forking happening goes up. Cause developer internal disputes. Small project normally its grin and bear it because there is not enough resources to split and be successful.

    Really there is a huge troll myth that FOSS personal don’t talk about issues. The long lasting issues are very hard to solve.

    Number 3 is a interesting one. Some of us have the belief that not everyone has to be effective sometimes you just want interesting. Raising interesting topics is what got the FOSS community rolling. Of course talking about interesting side topics has got less important as FOSS matures.

  12. oiaohm says:

    Der Balrog here is the sad thing. Microsoft is looking to invest in Dell. So this could mean HP gets cut out loop.

    Rolling back the migration is not that simple. Its not like just going out and buying a new stock pile of machines.

    Problem is with the 10 year release Munich figures you cannot make the HP figures match. Its under 50 million for everything training, new hardware and support of it. Yet the HP report tries to say the support cost is 60 million without hardware on anything else.

    Christian Social Union biggest claim is that the figures are fudged. What are they going todo when they find that the figures are not fudged and all the reports they have been using are fudged figures.

    Der Balrog the key reason why Munich has not blown budget is progressive conversion. To change back to windows without disruption would take another 10 years. Linux still generates vendor lock in.

    Christian Social Union could not reverse the Linux migration in one term even if he wanted to. Since by the time he gets a chance 90% of the operations will be on Linux at a min. Could possible be 95%. 14000 machines to convert to return to Windows. The remain 1000 or less machines will be running current versions of windows. There will be no upgrade requirement on the Linux machines. The Linux machines are upgrading in place to current versions of Linux. Due to Linux lightish spec requirements. In fact reducing spec requirements. All Linux machines will be able to run out to mechanical death. This allows solo machine replacement. No longer replacing every machine in a office at once.

    Yes the Linux trap for the Christian Social Union is that it does not force migration to new version at any time that requires new hardware. So there is no upgrade sync point requirement to jump in to do migration back to Windows. Migrate back to windows would require putting on more staff. Slower replace rate of Linux is a big problem to reversing.

    Windows end of life provides a trigger to migrate to Linux. There is no trigger for Linux to allow a cost effective migration back to Windows.

    Remember the Windows servers for managing Windows Clients are fairly much gone from the Munich networks theses days. So to return to windows is a unbelievable high cost in time and resources since Windows lacks the means to integrate into a Linux network.

    Yes Linux Machines can integrate into a Windows network. Windows machines cannot integrate properly into a Linux network.

    60 million is possible the cost to migrate back from a Linux network to a Windows network.

    What is scary is to a person like me by the time Christian Social Union gets in libreoffice could be released for Android and Ubuntu phone edition will be released. So percentage of the Munich desktop could be going completely non PC. So removing possible of returning to Windows completely.

    The timelines are completely against Christian Social Union being able todo anything.

  13. Der Balrog says:

    Ah, finally an English article.

    One has to admit that the timing is curious. But only if one doesn’t know that later this year a new mayor is elected in Munich. And Microsoft hopes that the CSU (Christian Social Union) candidate will come out victorious. Because then you can be sure that Limux would be rolled back very soon (the CSU has railed against Limux from day one), backed by shady, “objective” studies like the one mentioned in the article. Of course, the new computers needed for a new Windows would be supplied by HP.

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