More Nails In M$’s Coffin

In one day we see a bunch of shiny new nails driven into the lid on M$’s coffing:

  1. Microsoft plans big licencing price hikes, shifting to per-Device model • The Channel.
  2. Google announces a Chromebook for ARM with 100gB of free storage to start for $250. Take that, “8” RT.
  3. M$’s client revenues are down 33% for Q3 2012 under last year.
  4. Ubuntu releases 12.10 and invite users of XP to install it.
  5. “8” will be out soon to seal the coffin.

2012 is going to be a really great year for IT.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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61 Responses to More Nails In M$’s Coffin

  1. I noticed that as well. There are waves of new immigrants to the troll community after every banning as if some boss made a reassignment.

  2. kozmcrae says:

    Gee “Joey”, I don’t remember seeing your nym around here before but you act like you’ve been here all along. You sound kind of familiar too.

  3. Joey Lawrence, showing is low breeding and superiority complex, wrote, “I mean, do you seriously spout the kind of vitriolic overly zealous nonsense you do here, in your classroom? You’d last a week tops, out east.”

    Go freeze in the dark. I have put my writing on my resume for many years. I never had any employer question my integrity. I back up my statements with evidence and can demonstrate GNU/Linux and that other OS side-by-side any time. I have never had anyone see the demonstration conclude that GNU/Linux was an inferior OS.

  4. Joey Lawrence wrote, “Wow, refurbished computers in excellent condition and perfectly functioning, but lacking the (recommended, not minimum) 8mb ram and 386DX (released in 1985) required for Win95?”

    The PCs had 72MB RAM and were Pentium Pros. Certainly they could run the OS reasonably well. The OS just would not keep running. They were HP name-brand machines and quite solid. Hard drives were ~800MB-1gB, just large enough to hold all the software and a bit of data. So, they certainly exceeded your phony requirements. I found a manual for one… They were shipped with Lose ’95.

    Joey Lawrence wrote, “I call either BS, or gross incompetence.”

    You are the ignorant one, coming to my blog and accusing anyone of publishing BS or of being incompetent. How was it that I, being so incompetent was able to get the (sarcasm) very difficult to use GNU/Linux working on five machines in a couple of days and had them run without modification for months to great satisfaction? Those machines were old already but were used for years in that school.

  5. John Stamos wrote, “The OS is a glorified paperweight with no applications.”

    More or less true, but “Which applications?”. I don’t need M$’s office suite nor its server so I don’t need M$’s OS. No one needs M$’s office suite who just wants to create/modify/publish documents, something that most OS can do. No one needs PhotoShop. People got along just fine before it existed and they can after. A few people may find it convenient to use it if they specialize in printing in colour but those are few. Most images are published on the web these days. Indeed, look what Adobe charges for a licence and divide that into revenue. You find only a minority of PCs have that applications. We could go down a long list and find most people have no need of that other OS. Proof are the many organizations that don’t run it. Where I live a lot of people run M$’s OS only because they found it on retail shelves. Lots of people don’t even have a printer.

    John Stamos wrote, ““Imagine a world with no M$ or equivalent. GNU/Linux could exist and thrive and all the world’s IT could get done well.”

    Truly spoken as someone who’s never set foot near a real corporate deployment.”

    Hmmm… You do realize that most people work self-employed or in small businesses, right? So, I’m in the majority. In fact I have been a student and worked in schools that were very large. I have yet to see any organization that had to have M$’s OS on every PC. In fact, we see more PCs selling without it (counting smart phones and tablets as PCs).

    The largest school in which I have worked had 4000 students, more than 100 teachers and six principals. No one needed that other OS. The largest organization I have worked for was the Government of Nunavut in the PC-era and no one needed that other OS although most used it. Before the PC-era I worked in an hospital with 3000 employees and all the work got done without M$ anywhere, so don’t tell me M$ is essential or that an application that only runs on M$’s OS is essential. They are not.

    Speaking of real corporate deployments, how about Google, eh? Or IBM, eh? Or Munich, eh?

    NB: The preceding image was brought to you by “convert junk.png -crop 300×220+200 google_2012-10-23.png” . PS was not required.
    QED

  6. John Stamos says:

    “Last time I checked governments were some of the largest businesses in most countries and the ordinary people are their share-holders”

    That’s a shitty analogy, you don’t run a country like it’s a business. There are different considerations that simply making money for the shareholders.

    “One can find equivalent applications or create ones, thus making GNU/Linux perfectly suitable for all cases.”

    Unless, of course, there is no suitable alternative application, or a case where the OS just isn’t well suited for (for example, the 8-bit microcontrollers, that neither Linux for Windows proper will run on, those things that power the devices these higher level OSes run on, traditionally the territory of QNX, VxWorks and proprietary firmwares). Nothing is “perfectly” suitable for all use cases.

    “The purpose of an OS is to manage resources of computers, including applications. The purpose of an OS does not have to be to run a particular application.”

    What you describe is the purpose of an OS’s kernel, the purpose of an OS to to complete a given task, in real, practical terms, that tends to mean running a given application. While that doesn’t *have* to be its purpose, it doesn’t change that in the vast majority of cases it is. The OS is a glorified paperweight with no applications.

    “If your purpose is to run malware and re-re-reboot, I stand corrected, but I doubt that is the case.”

    Except that this isn’t the case in a properly maintained and secured system. And why rebooting is a dirty word in the Linux world is beyond me, uptimes are less important than availability, and Linux systems need to be occasionally rebooted as well, in the setting of an enterprise or organization, for the same reason as Windows machines: usually hardware and OS upgrades.

    “Imagine a world with no M$ or equivalent. GNU/Linux could exist and thrive and all the world’s IT could get done well.”

    Truly spoken as someone who’s never set foot near a real corporate deployment.

  7. Joey Lawrence says:

    “That’s a government “fiat” too. Certainly the schools don’t want to work for M$ for $0 training students to use that crap and be exposed to malware the rest of their lives. That’s not the purpose of schools.”

    The purpose of the education system is to educate people, to transmit knowledge, not to indoctrinate. I can only assume that you’re way up in the Manitoban boonies where half-competent teachers and technicians are so hard to come upon, they settled on you.

    I mean, do you seriously spout the kind of vitriolic overly zealous nonsense you do here, in your classroom? You’d last a week tops, out east.

  8. Joey Lawrence says:

    “Oh, that Lose ’95 would not run well in my classroom was my fault and it showed my incompetence? Those were refurbished computers in excellent condition, a bit old and slow, but perfectly functioning and that other OS would not boot and run for longer than a few hours with really unsophisticated students who never ran a PC anywhere else but in school”

    Wow, refurbished computers in excellent condition and perfectly functioning, but lacking the (recommended, not minimum) 8mb ram and 386DX (released in 1985) required for Win95?

    I call either BS, or gross incompetence.

  9. oldman wrote, of GNU/Linux, “It is not fit for purpose in all cases is a fact”.

    The purpose of an OS is to manage resources of computers, including applications. The purpose of an OS does not have to be to run a particular application. One can find equivalent applications or create ones, thus making GNU/Linux perfectly suitable for all cases. That many adopt a strategy of using that other OS for 5-20% of applications in an organization is a compromise, not an essential choice. Some organizations do go 100% GNU/Linux. GNU/Linux is fit for purpose. If your purpose is to run malware and re-re-reboot, I stand corrected, but I doubt that is the case.

    A “thought experiment” is sufficient to disprove oldman’s thesis. Imagine a world with no M$ or equivalent. GNU/Linux could exist and thrive and all the world’s IT could get done well.

  10. oldman wrote, “What you point to as successes are nothing more than government impositions of technology by fiat. “

    Last time I checked governments were some of the largest businesses in most countries and the ordinary people are their share-holders. The government of Brazil did not outlaw M$’s stuff which freely sells there. All they did was ensure a market existed for FLOSS and that market thrived. One could equally state that the government of USA allowed M$ to stifle competition even though that was illegal. That’s a governmental “fiat”, too.

    My own government subsidizes the shipping of Wintel PCs to schools which I promptly pave over with FLOSS at every opportunity. That’s a government “fiat” too. Certainly the schools don’t want to work for M$ for $0 training students to use that crap and be exposed to malware the rest of their lives. That’s not the purpose of schools.

  11. Mongrol says:

    “Every time I ban some ugly trolls”

    Every time you get your head handed to you, you mean.

  12. oldman wrote, ” There is no attack on your Freedom of choice”, completely ignoring the absence of choice of OS on retail shelves in much of the world.

    Look at NCIX.com. They have only no consumer PC with GNU/Linux. Where is the choice?

    Look at NewEgg. They have just two with FreeDOS.

    Where’s the choice in North America for normal consumers? None.

    Go to Brazil and there are hundreds of choices. What’s with that?

    There’s no reason that consumers here are denied choice except that M$ and its “partners” have decided to exclude GNU/Linux from established markets. There’s no technical reason and no FUD to explain that glaring suppression of a free market.

  13. oiaohm says:

    oldman the market has not stopped speaking.

    –The market has not dictated the success of a linux desktop. What you point to as successes are nothing more than government impositions of technology by fiat. Impositions that may not even have anything to do with anything other than a belief akin to faith in the illusion that transitioning to FOSS on linux is cost saver. Even for those entities willing to fit them selves and their business process into a pure Linux on FOSS environment, such a transition will still be a difficult one, and if my experience is the case, will end up costing either just as much or more than a commercial system – rendering the whole value of the process questionable at best at lease from a non ideological viewpoint unlike yours.–

    Speaking information not in fact. Every long term transition to FOSS solutions has resulted in lower operating costs.

    There is a transitional cost. This claim is documented bogus how many documents to you want me to present.

    What is documented is the cost and time of the transition.

    Non ideological there is true value to migrating at least a percentage to FOSS.

    oldman heck a percentage of your server room is Linux. So why not percentage of your desktop space be FOSS.

    Oldman exactly why does FOSS have todo everything. Using a jack hammer to put in a nail is pure stupid. Some of the usages of Windows do fall into this plain stupid.

  14. oldman says:

    It is M$ that attacked freedom of choice in the market, freedom of choice in OS and trolls come here and support M$. I hate that.

    WHat attack Pog? – There is no attack on your Freedom of choice
    You have had for quite a number of years personally had the choice to use any software that you want. You have also had (if you actually cose to pay for a fully configured system to get those systems fyully configured systems pre-configured from any number.

    What you have and will never personally have is the clout to dictate to the rest of us what software that we choose to use, software that is fit for our purpose Not Yours

    The difference is that the market has spoken and microsoft and its ISV’s have come out on top for most of the first tier vendors in the west. There is more than enough evidence that they commercial desktop software dominates in the east as well, albeit not to the financial benefit for microsoft or its ISV’s

    The market and the market alone, listening to the will of consumers will dictate what is sold in the mainstream. The market has validated the success of the Apple iPad and iPhone as well as the success of Ohone and tablets based on te commercial OS known as Android.

    The market has not dictated the success of a linux desktop. What you point to as successes are nothing more than government impositions of technology by fiat. Impositions that may not even have anything to do with anything other than a belief akin to faith in the illusion that transitioning to FOSS on linux is cost saver. Even for those entities willing to fit them selves and their business process into a pure Linux on FOSS environment, such a transition will still be a difficult one, and if my experience is the case, will end up costing either just as much or more than a commercial system – rendering the whole value of the process questionable at best at lease from a non ideological viewpoint unlike yours.

    FOSS is not an remains not enough Pog. That It is not fit for purpose in all cases is a fact, that all of your dismissiveness is not gong to make go away. So long as you refuse to recognize that fact that the world will be a mix of software types commercial and FOSS from microsoft and elsewhere, and dismiss the comments of those who tell you such as the comments of (M$ shills, slaves, sheeple or whatever. You will continue to get assailed by posters like TEG, or Mr. Weig, and sites like

    http://www.tmrepository.com

    Will thrive.

  15. Mongrol wrote, ” first steps on the slippery slope to your blog’s irrelevance… The slope is getting steeper and slippier.”

    That’s not happening at all. Every few months the blog gets a new high in page-views. Every time I ban some ugly trolls, new visitors pop up. There’s a pattern… After a new record month, the blog seems to relax a bit and hit a new record a couple of months later. There is a correlation to how often I post and no correlation at all to how many trolls I ban. It is true that trolls do generate traffic and there is a lull after a banning but it only lasts two or three days. The new growth replaces them that quickly and in a couple of months a new high is reached. I have no particular benefit from page-views but it is gratifying to know a growing body of people read my stuff and perhaps come to whack trolls…

    We’ve dropped to 320459 on Netcraft’s list despite the increased traffic. At one point we were in the top 150K. The top million is not too bad either.

  16. oldman wrote, “Of course pog simply dismisses or ignores what is said and sails on…”

    If that were true, I would not read all the comments nor reply to them. I did. It was they who dismissed as irrelevant all my personal knowledge and reports from around the world from others in wildly different situations all showing that GNU/Linux works for real people. What’s the last thing one commented? Oh, that Lose ’95 would not run well in my classroom was my fault and it showed my incompetence? Those were refurbished computers in excellent condition, a bit old and slow, but perfectly functioning and that other OS would not boot and run for longer than a few hours with really unsophisticated students who never ran a PC anywhere else but in school and opened one page at a time. They were on their own once I showed them what to do. So, M$’s OS let them down, not I. What’s with all this nonsense about GNU/Linux not being ready for ordinary users but Lose ’95 doesn’t even have to keep running??!!

    I only ban people who mainly abuse other people on my blog. Obviously these folks knew better but could not help but attack messengers left and right. I don’t regret kicking them out. oldman at least occasionally is on track and is even polite sometimes. I realize kozmcrae is often off topic but the trolls deliberately provoked him as well. I read all the comments and don’t want to waste my time reading what trolls write.

    I believe computerized IT is the right way to do a lot of things: creating, finding, presenting, and modifying information. It just does not make sense to do a lot of things any other way. On the other hand, plumping up M$’s coffers and ignoring a lot of great software used by millions makes no sense to me. I have proved in diverse situation that GNU/Linux works and I report on other situations where I see it work and I report on disasters M$ promotes. I do not apologize for that. It is M$ that attacked freedom of choice in the market, freedom of choice in OS and trolls come here and support M$. I hate that.

  17. oldman says:

    I would suspect that the major attraction of pogs blog has been the back and forth between pog and his peanut gallery on one side and those who feel it worth the effort to post commentary to attempt to correct the often blatent bullshit that pog posts.

    Of course pog simply dismisses or ignores what is said and sails on…

    If posters arrive who like teg or mr.weig who get in his face and refuse to accept delivery on his bullshit, they get banned.

    And pog sails on.

  18. kozmcrae says:

    Mongrol wrote:

    “How is this different from your modus operandi?

    “You other Cult of Microsoft members might learn something from TEG’s dismissal.”

    Brave from behind Pogson’s skirts, aren’t you?”

    How is this different from my operandi? I’m honest about my operandi. Prove me a lier and I will leave on my own.

    Brave from behind Pogson’s skirts? That statement doesn’t make any sense. Why wouldn’t you be just a little more careful about your behavior on this blog if you cared to continue posting here? I’ve already changed my behavior as of several weeks ago.

    The truth is that the Cult of Microsoft come to GNU/Linux blogs and make themselves as unpleasant as possible. Basically they trash the place. They often choose unpleasant nyms to further that end. The goal is not the art of the debate but simply shouting down the advocates of FLOSS by weight of numbers or by shear monotony as was the case of That Exploit Guy.

    This, you already know so my explanation falls under the monotony classification of your effort to wear down the advocates of FLOSS. You are not genuine, you are dishonest in your presence here. That’s why you are kicked out so often.

  19. kozmcrae says:

    Chris Weig wrote:

    “TEG has made Bob’s wife cry! How rude!”

    Do you see the line you crossed Chris?

  20. Mongrol says:

    “and then spew his line of crap.”

    How is this different from your modus operandi?

    “You other Cult of Microsoft members might learn something from TEG’s dismissal.”

    Brave from behind Pogson’s skirts, aren’t you?

    Pogson;

    Do you remember my first post to your blog? After you banned three people for “abuse” (read – handing you your head) on the suggestion of the worst troll and sockpuppeteer Slashdot has ever been plagued with?

    Those first steps on the slippery slope to your blog’s irrelevance… The slope is getting steeper and slippier.

  21. apollo wrote, “Why do ask him if he can’t answer? Invite him to dinner and you’ll see. I’m sure he’ll be delighted. Perhaps you can convert him.”

    He could answer and I can read it but keep it blocked from the comments made public. I think his mother would be offended by his behaviour here. It seems designed to bring out the worst in everyone.

  22. apollo says:

    I figure that’s rude enough to be banned. Good-bye, Chris Weig. You must be a terrible dinner-guest. Are you this rude to everyone?

    Why do ask him if he can’t answer? Invite him to dinner and you’ll see. I’m sure he’ll be delighted. Perhaps you can convert him.

  23. I figure that’s rude enough to be banned. Good-bye, Chris Weig. You must be a terrible dinner-guest. Are you this rude to everyone?

  24. kozmcrae wrote, “he never did supply the link to that mysterious “External Audit” on the Munich migration to GNU/Linux. “

    I did find an audit report in the council’s docs. It was a third-party auditor and it was in German so it did not help me much because Google translation falls down a bit. Nevertheless, the accounts were audited and the police were not called.

  25. Chris Weig says:

    TEG has made Bob’s wife cry! How rude!

  26. kozmcrae says:

    That Exploit Guy got what he deserved. He would simply say “no you’re wrong Robert” and then spew his line of crap. And he never did supply the link to that mysterious “External Audit” on the Munich migration to GNU/Linux. Robert put up with him far longer than he deserved.

    You other Cult of Microsoft members might learn something from TEG’s dismissal.

  27. Mongrol says:

    “Yes, we can move on; you’re banned.”

    How predictable. Someone else banned for handing you your head.

    Typical FOSS blowhard behaviour too; can dish it out, but can’t take it.

  28. oldman says:

    Banned IMHO for telling you in a bluntmanner what others have told you over the years.

    Not unexpected.

  29. TEG wrote, “your incompetence and nothing else. Can me move on now?”

    Yes, we can move on; you’re banned. I don’t need abuse from you. Go beat your head against a rock wall.

  30. TEG wrote of Lose ’95 crashing, “Which can be attributed entirely to your overall inability to manage Windows system, i.e. your personal failings.”

    I did not create Lose ’95 and I did not install it on those PCs. It was on decent HP machines with 72MB RAM and they ran perfectly with GNU/Linux. Don’t blame me for what M$ did. I had nothing to do with Lose ’95 except turn it on. What is it that I am supposed to have done to make them crash?

  31. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘The reason I retired is that many will work for less and I was getting old.’

    And you somehow believed that this would serve as a rebuttal rather than an affirmation to my charge?

    ‘failing to run for a whole class period without a freeze’

    Which can be attributed entirely to your overall inability to manage Windows system, i.e. your personal failings.

    ‘Since then I have discovered an abundance of reasons for switching as have many others.’

    Which are entirely ideological and inconsistent with the reality that commercial products are in every school right down to the concrete they use for the building.

    ‘Well, it is possible to have a cluster of PCs in every classroom using GNU/Linux because the capital cost is small and the cost of maintenance is small whereas that other OS is a burden to schools.’

    Which is entirely an assumption not based on facts. You have already demostrated clearly that you have no concept of “planned obsolescence” or “disaster management” and can’t even apply the mathematics of MTBF correctly. Is there any reason for anyone to turn to your pedestrian opinion on total cost of ownership? I think not.

    ‘However, I know of no school that was able to afford an abundance of IT except those that used GNU/Linux because PCs cost half as much using GNU/Linux’

    Which is utter BS. Windows 95 was set at $110 upgrade and $210 retail. The OEM price of one copy – disregarding bulk discounts – would be somewhere between those two numbers. A PC of that era would cost you at least 7 folds of the license cost, which was a drop in the bucket for just about anyone who could afford a computer. Furthermore, most somewhat usable software for Linux (that you could get without paying a dime) wouldn’t even arrive at the scene until the beginning of the 21st century, and that placed your assertion somewhere between “farcical” and “utterly ludicrous”.

    ‘I have been in schools that pulled the plug rather than endure malware.’

    And what exactly does that verify except that your sole reason of employment was due to lack of available human resources?

    ‘It is unprofessional to deny students IT for re-re-reboots, slowing down’

    I am sick and tired of hearing the same ol’ problems that were caused by your incompetence and nothing else. Can me move on now?

    oerating budget or capital budget.

    Last time I checked, academic licensing on School Agreement for Windows Pro was $17 per copy with support. “Capital” budget? I could probably get more than that from beating up someone else for their lunch money.

  32. TEG wrote, “my point that you employment was not based on the merit of your skills, but that there were barely other living beings where you worked competing for the same position?”

    I was hired as a teacher. There are people from all over the world competing for teaching jobs in Canada’s North. The reason I retired is that many will work for less and I was getting old. The IT component was just more leverage on my resume like some teachers who are musical or experienced in the performing arts etc. My skill with IT was a bonus.

    TEG wrote, “there is nothing in any of your stories that justifies your preference of operating systems aside from personal, ideological reasons, and that, to me, is simply unprofessional.”

    Uhhh… failing to run for a whole class period without a freeze on five PCs was the only reason I switched to GNU/Linux. It was a sufficient reason and motivated by my professional pledge to teach diligently. I could not do that if PCs had to be rebooted in the middle of class. Since then I have discovered an abundance of reasons for switching as have many others. GNU/Linux works for education. M$’s priority to direct money its way does not in any way facilitate education even if they donated hardware and software for $0 as they do when pressed. For me it was not even a matter for discussion. Seeing the performance of GNU/Linux and that other OS side by side on identical hardware was all the proof any principal or teacher or student needed. Believe it or not some people can think for themselves and they do believe their own eyes.

    Look at SD73 in BC. I had nothing to do with that. Professional IT people made the decision, faced with impossible budgets to switch. What should they have done? Done without IT in the hope that a dollop of cash would appear? There was no rational choice but to switch. GNU/Linux makes sense. The local college used to have nothing to do with GNU/Linux. Now, local businesses demand they equip students with GNU/Linux for client and server. GNU/Linux makes sense just about everywhere.

    Here’s a key snippet from the curriculum of my province. There’s nothing in it about M$ yet they demand a ton of exposure to IT for plenty of good professional reasons. It is unprofessional to deny students IT for re-re-reboots, slowing down, oerating budget or capital budget. GNU/Linux is the right way to do IT in education.

    “The core function of schools is to educate students. Traditionally we have equated the achievement of this core function with the acquisition of certain key skills: reading, writing, and numeracy. Today, however, we require an enhanced
    set of skills that includes the old skills, but also reflects current skills related to the effective use of information technology. To be most effective, the acquisition
    of these new skills will be achieved through a curriculum-integrated approach that uses information technology to support teaching, learning, and assessment. Teachers must continually make informed decisions about the appropriate use of information technology. For example, they need to consider whether its use adds
    another dimension to the resources already available to students. Information technology does not replace teachers, curricula, or other sources of information.”
    That was written in 1998 and the document refers explicitly to Lose ’95 and Mac OS. However, I know of no school that was able to afford an abundance of IT except those that used GNU/Linux because PCs cost half as much using GNU/Linux, perhaps less on donated machines. I have been in schools that pulled the plug rather than endure malware.

    More recent documents defined to integrate IT in education in particular subjects or grade levels do not explicitly name an OS. It is the functionality that matters only. It is quite professional to use GNU/Linux in education because it’s affordable and it works.

    A document produced a few years later (2003) for a particular subject will suggest computers be available in the classroom in all subject areas. “ACCESS TO ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT: Provide access to a computer, television, video
    cassette recorder/DVD-Rom, and video camera, if possible.”
    Well, it is possible to have a cluster of PCs in every classroom using GNU/Linux because the capital cost is small and the cost of maintenance is small whereas that other OS is a burden to schools. Many schools give a classroom teacher a tiny budget for resources. They may not be able to afford even a single PC if they have to buy anything else. Schools often have no IT people so anything expensive is unsupportable. It is irrelevant what you can buy if money is no object.

    The FUD that other OS is magically less expensive or that it’s easier to use just doesn’t fly in the real world. The mythical people who can keep XP running don’t exist in many schools. I don’t believe they exist anywhere judging by the horror stories from folks who spend ~$1K per annum per PC maintaining them. Schools can maintain a PC running GNU/Linux for peanuts.

  33. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘Are any willing to fly in small planes to remote gravel air-strips… Really, a visit to one of those schools may cost $1000 for air-fare and there are no hotels so it’s in and out the same day or you camp on someone’s sofa or the floor of the gym.’

    Don’t you notice you are only further emphasizing my point that you employment was not based on the merit of your skills, but that there were barely other living beings where you worked competing for the same position? As I said, you might as well boast about being a gold medalist at an Olympic event where you were the sole participant.

    ‘Deliveries of any parts or a response to a call for police may take more than a week.’

    Any order for parts here has to wait for at least three days to get shipped here, but usually you are looking at a whole week or even more (e.g. my laptop). If you think you were the only person who had to wait for things to arrive at the door, then think again.

    ‘Supposing one of your geniuses could make the trip. Could he do his magic with no server? Remember the Internet connection might be as slow as dial-up or a bit faster…’

    Many schools here are stuck with one ADSL connection for an entire campus – or two if they are lucky – and that applies only if you are within the metropolitan area.

    Even the ADSL connection I am using right now stutter playing YouTube video at 720p. There is simply nothing unique about your situation from my point of view, and as far as I can see, there is nothing in any of your stories that justifies your preference of operating systems aside from personal, ideological reasons, and that, to me, is simply unprofessional.

  34. TEG wrote, “there are at least dozens of contractors where I live that can make Windows fly on a tiny school budget.”

    Are any willing to fly in small planes to remote gravel air-strips? I will never forget a few hairy landings… The worst was a flight with such turbulence passengers were screaming. I was pretty sure I was going to die because from one second to the next we didn’t know under which row of windows Earth would appear. I was amazed the wings did not break off with roll, pitch and yaw like a bucking bronco.

    Really, a visit to one of those schools may cost $1000 for air-fare and there are no hotels so it’s in and out the same day or you camp on someone’s sofa or the floor of the gym. Most do not want to park their planes at the airport overnight for fear of vandalism. Deliveries of any parts or a response to a call for police may take more than a week. Then there’s the weather… Did I mention many flights get cancelled after the plane arrives overhead because the runway may have reduced visibility in blowing snow or drifts or moose or bear?

    Supposing one of your geniuses could make the trip. Could he do his magic with no server? Remember the Internet connection might be as slow as dial-up or a bit faster… One trip would likely cost far more than the annual budget for IT and the local folks have no power to increase it because government grants are not tied to performance and may have many restrictions.

  35. Chris Weig wrote, “Can write the sentence “I recommend Debian GNU/Linux” 100 times in 2 minutes.”

    Really, someone should make me a plug-in for stuff like that. I will have to look for a macro-generator. I already have one for some boring HTML but you’re right. Certain phrases are frequent enough to benefit from improved technology. I would like to be able to pin some items in the clipboard and so on. I do type reasonably well but I am past my prime and I never was as good as some of my students.

  36. Chris Weig says:

    Correction: Has built-in bug vision, can deduct deduce just from watching a Windows machine if it is insecure.

    Please report any more mistakes to Mr. kozmcrae.

  37. Chris Weig says:

    Resume

    Robert “Uncle Bob” Pogson.

    System Administrator, Ex-Physicist, Activist, Philantropist.

    Rudimentary knowledge of Linux. Can write the sentence “I recommend Debian GNU/Linux” 100 times in 2 minutes.

    Self-certified Windows expert. Can write “M$” without laughing.

    Can write great code in Pascal.

    Can weld racks for servers.

    Can turn Gameboys into “small cheap computers” with GNU/Linux.

    Can build high-performance clusters with Nintendo Entertainment Systems.

    Will work well with women (but only if they’re little).

    Has built-in bug vision, can deduct just from watching a Windows machine if it is insecure.

    Has expert knowledge of Debian security. His OpenSSL fix was rejected because of jealousy of Debian’s security people.

    Can hunt deer and Microsoft people.

    Can do penetration testing of networks by inserting network cables into forearm (Battlestar Galactica stole this idea from him).

    Can assassinate people by looking at their pictures and writing out their names on his Android/Linux deathphone.

    Can work well with Jews if IBM is not brought up.

    Only man to ever beat Chuck Norris.

    Can rewrite code by just looking at it.

  38. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘I have managed 100 machines of that other OS alone.’

    For the third time, there are at least dozens of contractors where I live that can make Windows fly on a tiny school budget. With the (in)ability and all the problems you have admittedly created due to your ineptitude with managing Windows systems, you wouldn’t even be allowed to get near one machine here – let alone a hundred.

    Your “experiences” are frankly the misadventure of a total amateur that he was not qualified for, and I don’t see any reason that you should further insult your readers intelligence by repeating these worthless stories again and again.

  39. That Exploit Guy says:

    @dougman

    ‘Why would anyone have to reinstall XP after you get a new computer, sounds like someone did not know what they were doing.’

    I didn’t quite understand what you were getting at until I saw oe’s comment.

    Every machine I have except the laptop I am using right now is self-built. Unless you are telling me that I can somehow use the machine with just a blank HDD, I don’t see how “someone didn’t know what [I was] doing”.

    Of course, since I am not well trained in the very relevant discipline of nuclear physics, I can’t guarantee that what I have done is 100% correct, now can I? 😉

    @oe

    ‘Well you do have to re-install windows to get rid of all the bloat, CPU-cycle sucking, registry-gumming CRAPWARE the average new PC comes with, plus registry rot is well known even if you avoid all the malware that windows is vulnerable too.’

    Speaking of my laptop, this is quite frankly the only machine I have that I never attempt to install an operating system manually on. Aside from the fact that a manual installation will ruin the recovery feature shipped with the unit, I simply don’t find that there is any more that I need to do than to just uninstall pieces of the bundled software that I don’t need with “Programs and Features” in the Control Panel. Maybe you should try that some time.

    Also, haven’t you learned anything about B-tree that I have taught everyone here for free yet? If you can find a piece of software (that exists outside of oiaohm’s colourful imagination) that can somehow generate noticeable performance impact on the Registry, thus requiring any one of those pieces of scareware registry cleaners out there after uninstallation, please by all means let me know.

  40. kozmcrae says:

    oldman wrote:

    “We are far closer to being a pattern maker than you will even know.”

    Ah, but you don’t know what I know. And you are not “far closer”. You are full of bluster oldman and your experience has narrowed your vision instead of broadening it. It is true that you know much. But you are fooling yourself if you think that you know all. Before you answer take a good long look at what you are thinking. And ask yourself, were you thinking that you know all there is to know, essentially, about IT? Because you know the answer is, you don’t.

    Academic institutions are complex places. Too often the academic and administrative computer centers are at each other’s throats over funding. It shouldn’t be that way but that’s the way the political marbles roll. It’s usually who you know, not what you know that gets you what you want. You can’t just do a good job. You have to do a good job and keep your political ass covered. I was never any good at politics. I had a problem with the truth. I couldn’t help from telling it.

  41. Hmmm:

    GNU/Linux and Mac: 155/2=77 machines per person

    That other OS: 300/15= 20 machines per person

    I wish. I have managed 100 machines of that other OS alone. It can be done but it depends on the malware problems, re-re-reboots and whether or not autoupdate is on. I turned autoupdate on to preserve my sanity but it did not help; there were always a few random machines that would not update automatically and a few percent per annum re-imaging required. Performance of the machines was also a killer. They took 2minutes to boot when GNU/Linux took ~30s on the same hardware. Then there were the servers. GNU/Linux could do very well with one or two. That place had 7, count ’em, 7. Believe it or not to increase storage they added servers… It was one of the most stressful years of my life. Every month, Patch Tuesday brought another crisis where I would update the servers over lunch because M$ released the zero-day hounds in their time zone. The clients had to wait until the evening.

    I still don’t know how many GNU/Linux machines is a full load. I’ve never had more than ~120. That was no trouble at all, just periodic checking to see if anything had died. It usually hadn’t. At Easterville, after commissioning, there were exactly three crises in six years: two failed memory modules in the first few weeks and a hard drive some years after I left. No software problems at all except one Ubuntu update messed gdm up. That’s 96 thin clients, 12 multi-seat PCs and a bunch of servers (1 file/auth server and several terminal servers). System admin time was just minutes per day. We didn’t actually measure uptime but there was very little downtime, perhaps a few hours for the two clusters of hardware problems, say 6h / (200d/a X 6 a 7h) = 1/1000 = 99.9% uptime It was the file-server that failed the only part with no redundancy, just a backup server. It would have been less but I took the file-server off-line for re-testing memory modules. I could have swapped them and put it back in operation. I had to help the newbie with the hard drive remotely because it was software RAID. I had neglected to put a bootloader on every hard drive… That’s OK uptime for a server but this is for the whole system, ~112 boxes, so it’s like 99.999% uptime per average box. That other OS often has downtime every month.

  42. oe says:

    Well you do have to re-install windows to get rid of all the bloat, CPU-cycle sucking, registry-gumming CRAPWARE the average new PC comes with, plus registry rot is well known even if you avoid all the malware that windows is vulnerable too. In Win-blows no easy rm -R /usr/bin/crapware equivalent or its more elegent apt-get remove crapware; a kill app that Mac and Windows only got to decades after GNU/Linux.

    At my old worksite, they had about 100 public access Linux workstations and about 35 private office linux machines. Windows had about 200 public access workstations and about 100 private machines. There was about 20 Macs, under the Linux support staff. The linux staff couple help you with a simple phone call, even on bigger issues. They also maintained the 4 computing multi-node clusters for numerical jobs (all running CentOS. Typical response time to call or email, under 5 minutes. These guys rarely left their desks.
    Meanwhile, for windows the techs did NOT take phone calls, you HAD to submit a trouble ticket so it could get racked and stacked on the que of requests for tech support. Unless flames are shooting out of your CPU, expect to wait from 24 hours to 3 days to get assistance with your problem. These guys and gals were constantly having to come to your site.
    Number of technicians for the Windows support, about 15. Number of GNULinux, (& numerical computing big iron support + Mac Support)….
    2 guys.

    Just my observations from user-land.

  43. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy you claimed redhat documentation it not redhat documentation. Wayland changes a lot of design things for security.

    oldman
    –Thats a funny fantasy Mr. K. Our is evenly divided between linux and windows servers, and there are more linux sysadmins that windows to get the same work done.–
    If that is the case you have a internal IT management problem. Linux following management policies. Question is what are the Linux sysadmins spending time on. Do your policies demand usage of configuration engines and other commonality. Or do you have the mistake of IT offices able to do everything their own custom way.

    –Then again its not some piece of white box crap like you probably sell Mr. D.–
    Out of white box stuff I get the same operational life as server class mostly due to careful selection. I do have ECC ram and do not buy gammer auto over-clocking boards. Yes the some cheaper desktop motherboards are more stable than the more expensive desktop motherboards.

    Oldman average life of hard-drives is less than 10. Does not matter if they are consumer or high rated server.(in fact high rated server ones do there bearings first)

    10 years is a rarity not to have to replace a drive in a raid setup due to mechanical defect.

  44. Chris Weig says:

    Exploiters forgot to mention that said computer was never plugged into the Internet, nor was it ever powered on or did he ever suffer and hard drive failures in ten years ever!

    That only happens to customers of incompetent IT people. You happen to be one, dougman. How are those sales of anti-useless software going? You probably sabotage your customers’ Windows installs — either due to incompetence or malevolence, perhaps both — to sell them services and crapware.

    Your fine services advertised on your website actually scream incompetence. I also like your web development services which solely consist of… setting up a WordPress site. OMG!

    I also liked this gem:

    Restoring your computer back to it’s manufacturer specifications is inevitable due to the faulty design of Windows, and we know sometimes these discs get lost or misplaced. In the event that you do not have your restore discs, I have created this page for your use.

    As was said before, it’s only inevitable if your computer was set up by Jet-Computing or other clueless people.

    It’s nearly quite impossible, but I actually think that Bob and oiaohm and kozmcrae are more competent than you, dougman. At the very least their lies and delusions are more amusing.

  45. oldman wrote about supporting OS on servers:
    “Our is evenly divided between linux and windows servers, and there are more linux sysadmins that windows to get the same work done.”

    That’s not surprising considering how oldman seems wont to waste resources everywhere in IT.

    • City of Largo spends less than half what typical cities spend thanks to GNU/Linux.
    • The Linux Foundation Survey:“Our latest survey of the world’s largest enterprise Linux users found that Total Cost of Ownership, technical superiority and security were the top three drivers for Linux adoption. These points support Linux’s maturity and recent success. Everyone is running their data centers with Linux. Stock exchanges, supercomputers, transportation systems and much more are using Linux for mission-critical workloads.”

    So, since manpower is very expensive compared to hardware and maintenance. I take oldman’s statement with a grain of salt.

  46. oldman says:

    Exploiters forgot to mention that said computer was never plugged into the Internet, nor was it ever powered on or did he ever suffer and hard drive failures in ten years ever!

    Nope. The computer spet the first 6 years of its life provisioned with a public IP address plugged directly into the internet. It is still humming along in my house now behind a nat firewall.

    And it is still functioning.

    Then again its not some piece of white box crap like you probably sell Mr. D.

  47. oldman says:

    Once again oldman, your ego speaks for the World. No, NYU is not a pattern for the World’s IT.

    Think again Mr. K. My organization is on the cutting edge of educational IT. We are doing more than many other universities, and we are globe spanning.

    We are far closer to being a pattern maker than you will even know.

    AS far as my ego speaking for the world is concerned, You do not speak from any relevant experience. You are just a troll on a blog.

  48. oldman says:

    I have used XP for 10 years and the only times I had to reinstall it from scratch was when I bought a new machine.

    That is my experience too.

    IN fact I still have a Dell Optiplex 270 from circa 2004 that is still going on its, original install.

    One should never have to install any windows OS from scratch. The process of creating a master image via the sysprep tool is well documented, and , when coupled with a disk imaging tool like clonezilla, the whole procee is quite painless.

    In fact my last install of XP was from an updated syspreped golden master install. the laying down of the image took a while but once the window mini installer finished, I had a fully working system patched to date with all of the applications that were sysprep tolerant pre-installed.

  49. kozmcrae says:

    oldman wrote:

    “Thats a funny fantasy Mr. K. Our is evenly divided between linux and windows servers, and there are more linux sysadmins that windows to get the same work done.

    And that is a pattern that I have seen in real life.”

    Your organization is huge and spread out over many installations. It’s not surprising you are using both Microsoft and Linux. I’d bet your organization could almost be fodder for a computer museum.

    Once again oldman, your ego speaks for the World. No, NYU is not a pattern for the World’s IT. It’s not even a pattern for higher education. Health care is just one example: http://www.informationweek.com/healthcare/security-privacy/malware-threatens-medical-device-securit/240009311

  50. dougman says:

    Re: I have used XP for 10 years and the only times I had to reinstall it from scratch was when I bought a new machine.

    Why would anyone have to reinstall XP after you get a new computer, sounds like someone did not know what they were doing.

    Exploiters forgot to mention that said computer was never plugged into the Internet, nor was it ever powered on or did he ever suffer and hard drive failures in ten years ever!

    The average life expectancy of any computer is 3-4 years at best, the machine service life can be extended, but hard drives do fail.

    With Windows one cannot just drag and drop hard drives like you can with Linux, due M$ copy protection crap.

  51. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘Consider XP. There are perhaps 500million PCs running XP which everyone knows is a ratty version with malware problems.’

    I have used XP for 10 years and the only times I had to reinstall it from scratch was when I bought a new machine. As I said, there are at least dozens of contractors where I live that can make Windows fly with a tiny school budget. If you can’t produce the same quality of work as theirs, that’s your problem, not MS.

    Stop making excuses.

  52. oldman says:

    To recommend a migration to GNU/Linux is to recommend a staff cut by at least 50% once everything is in place and working. And that’s assuming the staff that are left are Linux certified.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

    Thats a funny fantasy Mr. K. Our is evenly divided between linux and windows servers, and there are more linux sysadmins that windows to get the same work done.

    And that is a pattern that I have seen in real life.

  53. oldman wrote, “Whatever security issues there may be in desktop windows will be accepted and dealt with as part of the cost of doing business.”

    No. That’s “old-think”. The purpose of an OS is to manage IT resources not to be a burden to anyone. GNU/Linux is much more fit for purpose. Let the market decide but give the market choice. In 2012 the market has choice and Wintel is down 33% compared to last year. The world does not accept Wintel as the inevitable cost of doing business but chooses the lease costly option which is not Wintel.

    Consider XP. There are perhaps 500million PCs running XP which everyone knows is a ratty version with malware problems. Why are they not switching to “7” which still has those problems but to a lesser extent? It’s not because business accepts malware as a cost of doing business. It’s because business does not want to replace hundreds of millions of perfectly good PCs. PCs five or six years old are perfectly reliable and fast enough for IT. Business can and will convert a lot of those machines to be GNU/Linux thick clients because that’s the least costly option. Many will be used as thin clients because that gets new performance and new web apps etc. to users for the lowest cost. Tablets not running Wintel can also serve many functions in business. I have often seen consultants visiting schools where I taught bent under the load of a ton of notebook, charger and projector. They can now carry 1/10th the mass and get the job done. They don’t need Wintel any more.

    Business is about making money, not making money for M$.

  54. kozmcrae says:

    oldman wrote:

    “Whatever security issues there may be in desktop windows will be accepted and dealt with as part of the cost of doing business.”

    Truer words were never said. It’s the threshold of pain some organizations are willing to endure. It’s also the IT staff themselves. To recommend a migration to GNU/Linux is to recommend a staff cut by at least 50% once everything is in place and working. And that’s assuming the staff that are left are Linux certified.

    There are many installations of XP hanging on until the last possible moment to make a switch. The only question is what will they switch to. One thing may be a consideration, I don’t think they will want to be stuck with an antiquated system for 7 years again.

    Que Chris Weig with antiquated system remark.

  55. That Exploit Guy says:

    @oiaohm

    ‘Really I don’t know when MS will stop suxing and start providing upto date design of OS security.’

    So after all the stuff I have taught you for free, you still won’t let go of the rubbish you have read from those Red Hat brouchers.

    I am disappointed, oiaohm.

  56. oldman says:

    Really I don’t know when MS will stop suxing and start providing upto date design of OS security.

    Unfortunately for your argument Hammie, The issue of desktop windows security is not a major factor in the selection of a system. The reality is that most people are focused on the value in what applications that are available in the Windows ecosystem bring.

    Whatever security issues there may be in desktop windows will be accepted and dealt with as part of the cost of doing business.

  57. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig
    http://vignatti.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/the-damn-small-wayland-api/
    Really define sucking. Kissing good by to protocol bloat is always a good thing.

    Really its going to be fun to watch you guys as all the pieces that have been assembled over that last 6 years start linking with each other.

    Many different areas Linux does not sux anywhere near as much. Wayland change is a major change down the path to more secure. Vastly more secure than Windows desktop design.

    Really I don’t know when MS will stop suxing and start providing upto date design of OS security.

  58. Chris Weig says:

    Like now Wayland is officially under the XorgFoundations charter of operation.

    That’s fantastic! Has it stopped sucking?

  59. oiaohm says:

    Of course there is still more good news.
    http://www.x.org/wiki/XorgFoundation?action=diff&rev2=22&rev1=21
    Like now Wayland is officially under the XorgFoundations charter of operation.

  60. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig 2012 has been a great year for Linux. Redhat profits are up. Most Linux companies are doing well. More goverments have announced plans for internal FOSS.

    So overall 2012 has been a good year for FOS

    Thing is its been quite a Shockley bad year for Microsoft.

    I find it funny that MS is pushing up cal licensing at the same time Samba 4 is lining up to release.

  61. Chris Weig says:

    2012 is going to be a really great year for IT.

    That’s right, Bob. A freudian slip. Because for you it’s always the same year: the year in which Microsoft will… wait for it… D-I-E!

    I hope you will not come back to haunt us as a ghost. Because I don’t think you’ll be able to pass away peacefully if Microsoft ain’t done for. Think of your family, Bob. Surely they wouldn’t want to hire an exorcist.

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