LimuxWatch Gives Up. Munich and GNU/Linux Win

“No posts.”

see Munich Linux Watch.

Mayor Ude has a broad smile these days. He started the migration to GNU/Linux in 2003 against heckling from M$ and all its sycophants including LimuxWatch. The migration’s highest priority was not saving money but improving IT. He got both. Congratulations.

Photo by Cevriye Lucan / CC BY-SA-3.0 license

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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21 Responses to LimuxWatch Gives Up. Munich and GNU/Linux Win

  1. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘which I have removed. It seems to work now.’

    Will you ever listen? Regardless of what you do with the CSS, your HTML markups are still broken. The validator will still tell you that there are stray <li> tags in line 230 and 231, and your layout will still be shown as messed up in most browsers after those lines.

    Stop being obtuse.

  2. there was a line in style.css


    which I have removed. It seems to work now.

  3. That Exploit Guy says:

    ‘CSS is screwed up somewhere. HTML is correct.’

    You do notice that the W3C Markup Validation Service is provided by the very same body that standardises HTML, right?

    Stop being obtuse – you are simply digging yourself into a hole as we speak.

    • A
    • B

    This is what I see with this test:

    My browser displays



    CSS is screwed up somewhere. HTML is correct.

    Chrome browser reports:
    .widefat * {
    word-wrap: break-word;
    li, dd {
    margin-bottom: 6px;
    user agent stylesheetli {
    display: list-item;
    text-align: -webkit-match-parent;
    Inherited from ul
    .widefat td p, .widefat td ol, .widefat td ul {
    font-size: 12px;
    .widefat p, .widefat ol, .widefat ul {
    color: #333;
    ul {
    list-style: none;
    user agent stylesheetul, menu, dir {
    list-style-type: disc;
    Inherited from td.comment.column-comment
    .widefat td {
    color: #555;
    .widefat td {
    font-size: 12px;
    td, textarea {
    line-height: inherit;
    td, textarea, input, select {
    font-family: inherit;
    font-size: inherit;
    font-weight: inherit;
    Inherited from table.widefat.fixed.comments
    .widefat {
    border-spacing: 0;
    user agent stylesheettable {
    border-collapse: separate;
    border-spacing: 2px;
    border-color: gray;
    Inherited from div#wpbody
    body, #wpbody, .form-table .pre, .ui-autocomplete li a {
    color: #333;
    Inherited from
    body, #wpbody, .form-table .pre, .ui-autocomplete li a {
    color: #333;
    body {
    font-family: sans-serif;
    font-size: 12px;
    line-height: 1.4em;

    That’s what I call bloat. “list-style: none” could be helpful…

  4. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘Somewhere between TinyMCE, WordPress and my browser they mess up. By leaving off the ul tags, my browser shows them correctly.’

    Then stop using lists.

    As I have already mentioned, each comment here is formatted as a list item (i.e. <li>…</li>) inside an ordered list (<ol>…</ol>). By leaving out the enclosing unordered list tags(<ul>…</ul>), the list items become their own individual “comments”.

    Also, list items are not supposed to be present outside <ol>…</ol> or <ul>…</ul>. That’s an incorrect use of the <li>…</li> tags.

    W3C Markup Validation Service:

    ‘Line 231, Column 4: document type does not allow element “li” here; missing one of “ul”, “ol”, “menu”, “dir” start-tag’

    What good is a standard for if you don’t follow it?

  5. Chris Weig says:

    Pogson, you have the code! Use the FLOSS force. You’re a physicist. I’m sure you can do it.

  6. Are you referring to comments or posts? I always include

      in posts. Comments are the problem for me. Using
      causes the

    • s to disappear in my comments. It’s a CSS thing or an WP thing. I don’t know which. Haven’t looked into it.

    See? I included a ul tag and wp matched it with a /ul tag and then matched the li with a /li and /ul and still messed it up. No li or /li tags in the result.

  7. Mongrol says:

    “Perhaps you are using IE6.”

    It’s _not_ a browser issue. Your site is generating bad markup. The LI thing is just the one that’s screwing up layout.

    And it’s Firefox 14.0.1, if you must know.

  8. Somewhere between TinyMCE, WordPress and my browser they mess up. By leaving off the ul tags, my browser shows them correctly. Perhaps you are using IE6.

  9. Mongrol says:

    “Oh and when are you going to realize that using ordered lists in comments break your page layout?”

    If it helps, WordPress is adding a closing LineItem (LI) tag outside a DIV. If you can’t fix it, it might help if you used the OL or UL tags to contain your lists, instead of just using LI to define items.

  10. Chris Weig says:

    Chris Weig wrote:

    “This tool does not work with MS Office.”


    I didn’t write it. Oiaohm did.

    Kozmcrae’s brain has finally gone bye-bye.

    Sure, I understand that it’s hard to keep up your multiple identity thing on this blog.

    Simply get a good psychotherapist.

  11. kozmcrae says:

    Chris Weig wrote:

    “This tool does not work with MS Office.”

    Maybe this has something to do with it:

    “Wollmux is originally developed by the city of Munich for use with LibreOffice and OpenOffice.”

    Besides, when I hear that something doesn’t work with MS Office it really tuns out that MS Office breaks compatibility and doesn’t work the so-called broken thing. Get a life Chris.

  12. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig also killer right.

    Other areas of german are documented as starting to use the tech developed at munich.

    Please wake up and smell problem. This tool does not work with MS Office. It only works with Libreoffice and Openoffice.

    This is the foot hold problem.

  13. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig
    –Linux in Munich will be done once a new town government is elected. Then the Mayor’s lies will be exposed to the harsh light of day.–

    So 2014 you think it going to change. What are you going todo if it don’t.

    There are many other working examples other than Munich. Like the French Police.

    The Mayors is not the only report.

  14. Chris Weig says:

    Linux in Munich will be done once a new town government is elected. Then the Mayor’s lies will be exposed to the harsh light of day.

  15. Ivan says:

    There is no need to read anything into it, Bob. They are obviously just atoning for the holocaust.

    Oh and when are you going to realize that using ordered lists in comments break your page layout?

  16. kozmcrae wrote, “They strain credulity, not to mention reality, just to make it appear that Munich isn’t working. Ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha.”

    Careful. You might blow a gasket…

    To be fair, Munich was a huge demonstration project which will assist many others. I think it vindicates my idea about doing it over the weekend and delivering a two-page memo to staff on Monday… Doing it my way would have lots of advantages:

    • M$ would have been caught off-guard
    • It would have cost much less
    • By Monday afternoon, they would have had reports of all the problems saving years of inventories
    • By Friday afternnon, every department would have had templates working that they really needed and they could just pick the best of the bunch
    • By the following Monday, all the bugs would be fixed that really matter

    Of course they would have needed to use thin clients and they might have needed to line up a few servers, which might have showed up on the budget. Sometimes you have to break eggs to make omelets. Instead they chose the most expensive and time-consuming method possible. It worked nevertheless. I actually did this once but it took a 10-day weekend and 1.5 bodies. 80% of the work was unpacking and plugging in new hardware. The software just took a few hours to tweak. It was on time and under budget despite having only 1/3 of the planned time. Planning took more time than the installation because the twits who were supposed to place orders kept waiting until the quotations expired… I finally faxed the orders myself and got the wheels rolling. Of course Munich was a much bigger project but they could have done most of it department by department very quickly with the manpower they had. They had a few hundred PCs at each location. I had 119 for 1.5 bodies to set up. At least I did not have any staff to trip over. The paint was still wet when I was in the building. I got some on my hands…

    Munich and every other migration large or small teaches me one thing. Every problem is soluble. None are a reason not to migrate. Munich could have converted most workstations to thin clients right away and then worked on converting applications at their leisure. GNU/Linux was not part of the problem for them. The taxpayers might have accepted a week of chaos in order to save tens of millions of euros.

  17. kozmcrae says:

    I love the Munich story. I pulls all the Microsoft fools out of the woodwork. They strain credulity, not to mention reality, just to make it appear that Munich isn’t working. Ha, ha ha ha ha ha ha.

    Come on Chris. Post some more of your crap. I’m always up for a good laugh.

  18. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig reality the server side is part Linux. That is past a question. Zero cost usage licenses equals no department to department budget fighting over who pays this results in less fragmentations.

    Its one of the traits in multi department companies with Linux. Documented by IBM many times over. Munich will be no different.

    Chris Weig really what are you going todo if its the truth.

    –The pre-study concluded that Microsoft was cheaper.–

    Who pre-study. The that is the problem. That is forgetting the base rules all plans mean nothing until they are tested by battle.

    Also note the pre-study only showed Microsoft as cheaper if Microsoft was giving 60%+ discount. This is why people like you are such a idiot Chris Weig. Since not even the Pre-study shows that MS is cheaper if you have to pay normal pricing. To remain cheaper you had to win discounts every single time right? No once you get to the 3 cycle of updates its cheaper no matter what.

    So by the time the counsel changes and the audit is done its too late.

  19. Chris Weig says:

    Still pulling the same ol’ crap, I see.

    There’s the Mayor’s “claim”… and then nothing. The pre-study concluded that Microsoft was cheaper. Any additional savings which are mistakenly attributed to Linux result more likely than not from the reorganization of the IT landscape.

    I look forward to a thorough audit once the current town government is gone. Then the lies will be revealed.

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