Who helped you get started with Linux?

That’s the question of a poll I found on a German site, Pro-Linux.de. The answer they found?

Response Share (%)
The Internet (instructions, lists)

46%

A book

22%

An experienced friend

13%

An instructor / trainer

3%

One group (LUG)

1%

man pages

8%

Other

7%

In my case, in the fall of 1999, the husband of a fellow teacher showed me GNU/Linux. He attempted to install GNU/Linux on a PC from CD or floppy. I forget which. I also forget the distro. It was not very successful. I think he was stuck on CLI… A year later I was at another school in the Arctic and I had PCs running that other OS crashing. I then went to the web where various helpful people informed me that Caldera Linux had a fine installer. Then I downloaded an .iso over the telephone lines (10 days of nights and weekends – I don’t know who paid the bill…). I had never burned a CD but even on a Mac I was able to get it right on the second try and I was in business. I had no problem installing but to get the GUI going I had to configure X. That took a day or so to figure out and do on five PCs with five different monitors but the system was superb. The five ran flawlessly for six more months. They were used for years after I left. They were old then.

So, that’s why I write this blog and encourage individuals, schools, organizations, businesses and governments to do IT the right way, with FLOSS because it works for you. We don’t buy cars which don’t work. We should not buy licences for an OS that doesn’t work but that’s what the world did for two decades while M$ built its monopoly. It’s time to stop.

I recommend these sites for people wanting freedom and efficiency in IT:

  • www.debian.org – the distribution of Free Software that I use. It’s wonderful easy to use and flexible.
  • www.GNU.org – all about the GNU part of GNU/Linux a UNIX-like operating system that you can download, use, examine, modify and distribute easily.
  • www.FSF.org – all about Free Software. It’s not $0 but the four freedoms: use, examine, modify and distribute. They maximize the benefit of any software to the world.
  • LinuxQuestions.org – a site I visited frequently first to learn and later to share what I had learned.
  • Google.com – of course. Any time your PC spits out a message you don’t understand, try “message” in the search window. If you use Debian, you could add “site:debian.org” or “site:linuxquestions.org” and you are pretty well covered. With their Chrome browser, you can use the address window as the search window. It’s easy.
  • Distrowatch.com – if you want to quickly compare distributions of GNU/Linux. I recommend Debian mostly because it is huge, has many users, and a great package manager.
  • Goodbye-microsoft.com – This saves making a CD. It uses that other OS to boot the installation programme of Debian. It’s a good idea to have a second PC available in case you cannot boot your installation. That happens rarely but a second PC will allow you to interpret messages or download missing software.

Enjoy GNU/Linux. It will work for you and costs almost nothing to try.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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51 Responses to Who helped you get started with Linux?

  1. Chris Weig says:

    You know, IBM showed some advertizements on TV for Linux back around 2000, but that did not get me started with Linux. It was the Internet that got me started with Linux.

    Really? I would’ve thought it was when you had to search the dumpsters for old computers. That’s how many people got started with Linux.

  2. kozmcrae says:

    You know, IBM showed some advertizements on TV for Linux back around 2000, but that did not get me started with Linux. It was the Internet that got me started with Linux.

  3. oldman says:

    “To work out if a person… does suggest highly otherwise.”

    You keep making excuses Hamster to get around facts. All you interpretations of history and explanations of your views of mitigating circumstances, or whatever in the end amount to NOTHING. That IBM did not pay for their deeds is also fact, but a fact that does nothing to mitigate the deed.

    You cant excuse or explain away the inexcusable Hamster. I suggest that you stop trying.

  4. oiaohm says:

    oldman this is not excuse making.

    To work out if a person has committed a war crime. First question what are they in control of?

    In IBM case by the time of war crimes they were barely in-control of their company.

    Looking what IBM did the question always is was it possible for them todo different and what would have been the result of attempting the difference.

    There are a list of historic limits. If you look at 1934 germany businesses were ceased for supporting the jews. So IBM attempts to pull support by by companies to German government control. This is a fact as well.

    IBM was not the only company that found themselves trapped where they could not say no. By saying no they would make matters worse not better.

    That is the big problem. Some cases an issue is not able to be stopped once its started.

    The idea that IBM is gulity of a crime is the problem. The big question did IBM do it of their own free will. History does suggest highly otherwise.

  5. oldman says:

    Hamster, all you your usual excuse making is in the end irrelevant. What IBM did stands as fact, and your attempts to explain and mitigate are do nothing more than make you look even worse than you usually doi.

  6. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig lets just say IBM is how the book try to make out. The weather grid would not been started being build in 1937. Due to the costs being too high for the USA government todo.

    With out this the D day landings would not have been possible without useful weather information.

    So Holocaust most likely would have had Zero survival if IBM was a company driven by pure greed.

    I will give that IBM made a huge mistake letting there census gear to to Germany. It was not that Germany could not make there own. Problem is I see nothing in the record that clearly told IBM before it gear got to germany that it was going to be a bad idea.

    Remember by 1937 anyone associating on assisting jews could have there assets ceased. This was done early on in fact right at the start of the camps this is why if IBM woke up earlier it most likely would have made very little difference on the path.

    So IBM trying to recall its hardware they could have been directly accused of attempt to assist the jews so. So the hardware is going no where. Someone not providing parts and supplies to keep that gear running same thing happens.

    Could this happen again yes. Lets think if china made up mind to demand that everything made in china had to have a china back door. What could everyone using it do.

    Were you make hardware has some really nasty catches.

    Would I remember IBM has a hero of world war II no. Would I remember IBM as a villain of world war II no. Would I remember them as victim of world war II hell yes. Was it good that IBM was a victim yes. Because if IBM had not been a victim the weather grid might not have been made either.

    Most of the ones who lived through the Holocaust did things they were not proud of. The big question is does IBM have to really say sorry for being deceived about how it hardware was going to be used yes/no?

    Does IBM has to say sorry because they were forced todo something yes/no?

    Does IBM deserve credit for the weather grid and other thing that made the fall of germany possible. yes/no? Remember IBM did lot of these at cost to IBM bottom line. So IBM was reaching into there own pocket to fund the war effort to bring about the fall of germany.

    Sad as it sounded the lead of IBM thought by providing the census information to Germany at first would make the place more peaceful with people having there own areas. Less race tensions.

    A idea sounds good in theory. Implementation can be a complete disaster if a few bad eggs get it. The holocaust is most likely the best example of that.

  7. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy knowing what is going on does not mean you can do anything to stop it. This is the location IBM is in with world war II

    I asked what could you do if in the Head of IBM in 1937 when he gets the award. What could you now do to change anything. Knowing all the facts. The big one that you cannot shut your operations down because then they will just cease the assets and use them anyhow. Most of the jews are still alive at this point.

    –if IBM’s own official story checked out, there simply would not be correspondents, both to and from IBM headquarters–
    This is wrong. IBM could not shut-down operations. So there had to be. In fact the correspondents went threw office in Swiss-land not straight to USA head office. The official story is correct there was no correspondence sent to germany from head office in the complete war. It was send to Swiss-land then reverent instructions forwarded on.

    So there was no correspondents directly from Germany to USA head office. There was correspondence forwarded on from Swiss-land. Part of the error there is person asked wrong question.

    If you had asked was there instructions for Germany send from headoffice answer would have been yes. Was the information about Germany operations get to head office the answer would have been yes.

    Ask the right question get the right answer. Ask the wrong question get the wrong answer.

    Chris Weig from 1933 and 1941 was confinement camps and slave labour camps. Not mass killing designed for mass killing. The kill rate was no different to normal prison at the start.

    In fact 50 percent deaths in those camps had not happened by 1937. Most of the deaths from over crowding happened after that point.

    1939 is the start of world war II. Actions by IBM to attempt to stop things have happened before this point.

    The reality is IBM had no power stop it. Other than provide technical assistant to USA Mil.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Weather_Squadron#World_War_II Note the date. 1937 Same year IBM lead got the award. Same year IBM started giving USA government 1 percent mark up on hardware so making the hardware for this affordable.

    There is a chain event that happens over in the USA starting with the award in 1937. Basically 1937 is when IBM pulls its head out the sand.

    That Exploit Guy basically if you look you find IBM USA responding to the problem in 1937 on. Problem is what could they do. At that point it was kinda too late to wake up.

    1941 is when the killing really ramped up as formal policy.

    The policy of working to death starts 1939. Up until this point there is no German direct plan to kill.

    –1933 and 1941 Jews were killed. Systematically.–

    This is incorrect. 1933-1939 the killing was lack of care. But when they started in 1939 it was fast. Work to death policy people had a 4 month life span.

    Yes most of the deaths in the camps happens 1939 on.

    Chris Weig
    –That’s exactly the bullshit people are telling themselves in order to sleep tight.–
    I asked the question for a reason. Because when you make a list of what he could do. Like free/cheep hardware to the USA mil. Yes a percentage of hardware was given under cost to the USA Mil.

    You find the head of IBM doing this stuff.

    Thomas J. Watson was trying to stop it. He was not what you call sleep tight over the time. None of the options he had could work quickly. That is where the sabotage of the processes come in to try to buy more time.

    The very point you can find actions that show IBM trying todo something about it is too late to stop it.

    What date could have IBM had to respond to prevent it. The census. What evidence at that time existed that they were up to no good. None.

    Hindsite is always crystal clear. I would love to place you guys in a virtual game where you are dealing with many virtual companies with virtual news. And see if you can sport the one following the path of a genocide and cut off supply in time.

    I have a feeling both of you would fail the same way.

  8. Chris Weig says:

    You’re so out of it, Pogson.

    It was exactly the other way around! What happened to the Jews in Germany before the Endlösung was widely publicized abroad. And in all this years between 1933 and 1941 Jews were killed. Systematically. Just not in the sheer numbers as it would begin to happen later on. And only then, when the Nazis implemented their Endlösung, did they actively try to hide the mass murdering. But what had happened up until this point in time was very much enough to make very educated guesses about what was happening.

  9. Chris Weig wrote, “There was NO secrecy involved. “

    There was no secret to hid. Hitler and his buddies made it up as they went along. Hitler and his buddies did not campaign on eliminating jews. They campaigned on restoring Germany to it mythical place in history. When the war started and millions of poles, slavs and jews fell into their hands they developed an industrial plan of extermination, not before. They thought they were solving the problem of conserving bullets or maintaining the morale of the troops. The Germans did not have much clue about what was going to happen before 1941, let alone the rest of the world.

    Obviously the world knew Hitler, the nazis and many Germans hated Jews but it was not widely known that slaughter had commenced until during the war when resistance and aerial reconnaissance brought out the news. One role of the camps was to hide the mess from publicity. The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 went nowhere near slaughter. Neither did Mein Kampf. It was all about reducing Jewish power/influence and gaining public support by blaming Jews.

  10. That Exploit Guy says:

    @oiaohm

    Thanks for regurgitating Wikipedia word for word for me! Did you ever think I might just happen to have read it before posting comments about IBM here?

    Also, did I not tell you that it’s not a terribly reliable source of reference?

    ‘Little bit of history. Thomas J. Watson did revolt against the Third Reich. Return a medal would be punished by death if he set foot inside German and this is before the USA enters the war.’

    You want history? Here’s history.

    The only reference Wikipedia has is a book by Kevin Maney in 2003, and Edwin Black’s own book in 2001, which it misrepresented. Here’s a reality check – if IBM’s own official story checked out, there simply would not be correspondents, both to and from IBM headquarters, during the invasion of Poland and the beginning of World War II, in regards to the maneuvering of assets for Nazi Germany. As Black says that even a little girl hiding in an attic in Amsterdam heard about the extermination campaign by the Nazi from the BBC – there was no excuse for a CEO of a multinational corporation to not know about such event.

    Also, Black mother was a Holocaust survivor, so stop making this whole thing sound like it’s all about your petty little FOSS cause.

  11. Chris Weig says:

    Stop bullshitting around, oiaohm. Please, just stop.

    Whoever read Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” knew what goals the Nazis pursued in the long run: destroying the Jews.

    Concentration camps were set up as early as 1933, immediately after Hitler became Reich Chancellor. Jews were rather systematically murdered there as early as 1933.

    Jews were discriminated and hunted directly after Hitler became Reich Chancellor. What the Nazis had in mind and in store for the Jews was immediately brought out into the open. There was NO secrecy involved. Because for the Nazis it was necessary and important that the Anti-Jew propaganda disseminate to the German public. And everyone who wanted to know could know.

    Yes, it was public knowledge in Germany what was happening to the Jews.

    And therefore no one can claim with even only a hint of conviction that IBM at that point in time did not know what was happening in Germany. It rather becomes the same question that can also be asked the German population of that time: did they want to know?

    I would like you to tell what Thomas J. Watson could do better. From my point of view he was up the creek without a paddle in 1937. 4 years before anyone is killed.

    That’s exactly the bullshit people are telling themselves in order to sleep tight. The killings did not only start in 1941. The infamous Endlösung merely greatly expedited what already had been happening in all the years before.

  12. oiaohm wrote, “The first kills of the holocaust start 1941. “

    That may have been the start of assembly-line killing but many died long before, but not systematically.

    e.g. Kristallnacht (1938)

  13. oiaohm says:

    Edwin Black does not mention in the book the return of the medal. He really does not follow what goes on there because that does not back the case that IBM is evil.

    IBM was Naive by the time they worked out they were it was too late to stop operations in Germany. 1940-1941 attempt saw the shareholders cease control of one of IBM factories in Germany and take it completely out of IBM control. From this point on IBM was not in 100 percent control of their operations in Germany. It was impossible for IBM to shut-down operations from this point on. Since the results would have been more factories fall out IBM control.

    The first kills of the holocaust start 1941. This is why when IBM full lost control of its German operations is important. IBM has gone into sabotage mode in 1938 this shows up in revisions to service manuals like replacing holding screws in mantaince. Taking up as many Jew staff as possible and causing stuff to be over serviced and other things.

    The less than 1 percent profit for all USA goverment hardware supply was an attempt by IBM to pay there debt. IBM provided the USA with code break computers for free. This is all under Thomas J. Watson in World War II.

    Dehomag (Deutsche Hollerith-Maschinen Gesellschaft mbH) the company that falls to control of its shareholders with German government approval and gets to disobey IBM main in 1940-1941. Is the same company Thomas J. Watson gets the medal over and returns a medal over. From 1937-1940 Thomas J. Watson questions what he has done.

    So after that date everything Dehomag direct does has nothing todo with Thomas J. Watson.

    The claim about supplying. Supplies does not hold up. The companies making the supplies were in German control countries. So tell them to stop making the supplies would have just seam them ceased by German government.

    I would have hated to be in Thomas J. Watson location. You cannot shut operations down because operations will just be taken.

    Remember 1940 is still before the killing starts. IBM has made a mistake on what they believe the information was for and found there was no way back out.

    The book is not clear to the timeline of when the kill starts and how much control IBM really has.

    A country taken a censes and wanting to process that information is a normal operation. Using that information to kill its citizens is abnormal. Country taken control of a companies assets is also abnormal.

    The big thing Edwin Black misses the the medal sets off alarm bells inside IBM and causes actions. The problem is by the time IBM attempts to act its too late to stop it what is under way. So IBM is along for the ride if it likes it or not. Reality if IBM pulled out the process would have been faster no IBM sabotage.

    We have learnt nothing. Companies give nasty countries deep packet inspection. So allowing modern day Holocausts.

    That Exploit Guy I want you to seriously think about. You have magically been transformed into Thomas J. Watson of 1937 you have just receive the medal. You listen to people there you wake up the census information is not for good usages.

    What can you do. Then remember the first company he try to shutdown has the shareholder revolt.

    I would like you to tell what Thomas J. Watson could do better. From my point of view he was up the creek without a paddle in 1937. 4 years before anyone is killed.

  14. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy really go read the wikipedia follow the references to events on Thomas J. Watson your one reference has a few holes.

    Other thing most Linux kernel lead maintainers for drivers are developers from the hardware companies who make the hardware.
    ==source code maintained by people under your control==
    A staff member from the hardware company has first maintainer for any hardware driver. As MS found out over hyper-V. That if hardware maker does not provide staff there is high odds unless the hardware is popular for the driver to be removed from the Linux kernel completely.

    So these are not random maintainers.

  15. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy Edwin Black Continentally leaves out a few facts. That cover the position IBM was in and what they did after World War II.

    That Exploit Guy
    –Watson soon began second-guessing himself for accepting the medal, and eventually returned the medal to the German government in June 1940. German Chancellor Adolf Hitler was furious at the slight, and he declared that Watson would never step on German-controlled soil again.–

    Little bit of history. Thomas J. Watson did revolt against the Third Reich. Return a medal would be punished by death if he set foot inside German and this is before the USA enters the war.

    Thomas J. Watson then works heavily with the USA Mil. Sections of it IBM did not bill for.

    –Watson, Sr. also developed the “1% doctrine” for war profits which mandated that IBM receive no more than 1% profit from the sales of military equipment to U.S. Government.–

    Yes he had worked out he had made a mistake. Problem was by that point it was too late to stop it. The German shareholders had revolted had shown he could not shutdown those factories or get his hardware back. In fact the revolt had seen the shareholders took control of the Dehomag operation. Because of an attempt to stop it. So trying to shut-down operations would just see more factories of IBM would fall under direct German control. At this point the only option is sabotage and make the factories you still control have as much jew staff as possible to protect them. Even going as far as inventing new professional titles to protect them.

    That Exploit Guy so there is really no need for Watson to say sorry. He direct insulted Adolf Hitler at the time. At the end or world war II when IBM could get all its assets under control it cancelled the shares the German end of the ones who revolted.

    So Watson was not a willing party working with the Third Reich the complete time. You could say that before he returned the medal he was having his head in the sand about what they would use the data for.

    IBM loses a fortune in World war II due to their policy of less than 1 percent proft supplying to the USA government. This effective takes out all the profit IBM got from Germany. This also comes in to effect in 1941.

    So from 1940 on IBM is actively trying to undo its mistake. This includes intentionally screwing up maintenance manuals to require more parts to be replaced. Parts the did not need replacing were documented as needing replacing.

    IBM is doing full blown sabotage during world war II. Under Thomas J. Watson directions.

    That Exploit Guy if you had done your homework you would not be point at Thomes J. Watson. You would find those who directly helped the Third Reich and did not take part in the sabotage were dismissed from the company at the end of World War II.

    IBM did take account internally for the holocaust. IBM was one of the few companies who fired staff at the end of World War II over there involvement.

    Edwin Black does not cover what IBM USA did in World War II. It miss the fact that IBM in a lot case in the USA worked for free to support the war effect to end the german government. And did everything possible to be as expensive as possible to Germany.

    That Exploit Guy he does not cover that IBM increased staff in there factories to protect many from extermination as well.

    Edwin Black information is close to correct. The problem is every saboteurs has to assist so much. Edwin Black documents IBM assistance to the Third Reich. It basically does not document IBM involvement with the Third Reich after 1940 properly including what it was doing to sabotage. Its 1940-1941 is when IBM tries to shut-down operations and fails to be able to.

    The book focuses on him getting the medal in 1937. Does not cover what happens when he returns it in 1940 on that well.

    The point is after 1940-1941. IBM knew they could not shut-down operations even if they wanted to.

  16. That Exploit Guy says:

    @oiaohm

    ‘That Exploit Guy Jamie Zawinski did not think Mozilla.org would live either.’

    Irrelevant. Mozilla was instigated by none other than JWZ and Co. as a desperate attempt to give Netscape a second chance. At that time, Netscape was already failing as a product. As he himself said in his resignation letter, “[Mozilla] was so crazy, it just might work.”

    ‘The plan sill bit depends on what your long term goal of the OS is. If you goal is a proper audited and fixable OS. The Linux path is a correct one.’

    That depends on what you expect from your “auditing”. If you were a Scientologist, you would probably consider holding two tin cans in your hand and getting asked a bunch of personal questions a proper way to go about that. If you were a hardware manufacturers, however, you would likely prefer “auditing” to be something along the line having your driver source code maintained by people under your control rather than whoever running the show in the Linux maintainer hierarchy that may or may not allow you to have a say on the matter.

    I am sorry, but your so-called “correct” way is the worst way imaginable for a hardware manufacturer with investments at stake.

    ‘Old hardware is very questionable. You buy a new machine when you upgrade windows because Windows is that picky you cannot depend on it running on older hardware.’

    If you are talking about old hardware, I have an archive box full of it waiting to be disposed of. When hardware gets old, they get cracked solder joints, eroded contacts, failing capacitors, etc. The overall cost of keeping them is just not any lower than buying new stuff. Heck, go to a shop near you and see how cheaper it is to get new a printer than it is to get new ink cartridges. You want to hold on to that Pentium III from 1999? Fine by me, but if I were you, I’d rather spend a bit of money and get a new spanking thing with warranty and what not. I ain’t retired yet, so why bother wasting precious time on something that will break down at any time?

    ‘The attacking IBM is just an attempt to get the FOSS people to fight inside themselves. Just like every other troll arguement when you go look for facts the facts does not back the case.’

    Really? No, seriously, do give Edwin Black your theory. You know where to find the guy, don’t you?

    ‘IBM has face 4 different court actions over the Hollerith Cards. Each court action rules that IBM was not guilty and 3 of them rules that IBM was a saboteur.’

    If you had watched the video I posted, you would have known that IBM was responsible for managing weather data for the Allies. Documents uncovered by the Allied forces also showed that Thomas J. Watson was involved in the profiting from the extermination campaign by Nazi Germany. The problem with prosecuting IBM was purely a political one – that the Allies had to rely on IBM, a company known to profit from both sides, to win the war.

    You are not going to expect any member of the international community to air their dirty laundry any time soon.

  17. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy of course you miss that IBM revolted while the war was under way.

    That Exploit Guy
    –Watson soon began second-guessing himself for accepting the medal, and eventually returned the medal to the German government in June 1940. German Chancellor Adolf Hitler was furious at the slight, and he declared that Watson would never step on German-controlled soil again.–

    Little bit of history. Thomas J. Watson did revolt against the Third Reich. Return a medal would be punished by death if he set foot inside German and this is before the USA enters the war.

    Thomas J. Watson then works heavily with the USA Mil. Sections of it IBM did not bill for.

    –Watson, Sr. also developed the “1% doctrine” for war profits which mandated that IBM receive no more than 1% profit from the sales of military equipment to U.S. Government.–

    Yes he had worked out he had made a mistake. Problem was by that point it was too late to stop it. The German shareholders had revolted had shown he could not shutdown those factories or get his hardware back. In fact the revolt had seen the shareholders took control of the Dehomag operation. Because of an attempt to stop it. So trying to shut-down operations would just see more factories of IBM would fall under direct German control. At this point the only option is sabotage and make the factories you still control have as much jew staff as possible to protect them. Even going as far as inventing new professional titles to protect them.

    That Exploit Guy so there is really no need for Watson to say sorry. He direct insulted Adolf Hitler at the time. At the end or world war II when IBM could get all its assets under control it cancelled the shares the German end of the ones who revolted.

    So Watson was not a willing party working with the Third Reich the complete time. You could say that before he returned the medal he was having his head in the sand about what they would use the data for.

    IBM loses a fortune in World war II due to their policy of less than 1 percent proft supplying to the USA government. This effective takes out all the profit IBM got from Germany. This also comes in to effect in 1941.

    So from 1940 on IBM is actively trying to undo its mistake. This includes intentionally screwing up maintenance manuals to require more parts to be replaced. Parts the did not need replacing were documented as needing replacing.

    IBM is doing full blown sabotage during world war II. Under Thomas J. Watson directions.

    That Exploit Guy if you had done your homework you would not be point at Thomes J. Watson. You would find those who directly helped the Third Reich and did not take part in the sabotage were dismissed from the company at the end of World War II.

    IBM did take account internally for the holocaust. IBM was one of the few companies who fired staff at the end of World War II over there involvement.

  18. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘Of course, even if that were true, which I doubt’

    Which you doubt? Feel free to try and dispute that.

    ‘would be like visiting the sins of the fathers on the grandchildren.’

    Oh, lemme guess – you looked up TMR’s website and decided this was the best answer without reconciling with your perceived enemy (*cough* MS *cough*). Here’s still a problem, though – Thomas J. Watson continued to be the chairman of the company until he died in 1956. That’s 11 years after the end of World War 2. Now, of course, after more than half a century, you talk about all this IBM doing ‘a lot of good in the world today’ (while ignoring the fact that even Hugo Boss apologised for producing uniforms for the SS), ‘sins of the fathers’ and whatever, but at the same time, you are not extending the same courtesy to MS. Of course, why would you? You are far too emotionally invested in bringing down that company with your blog entries. It’s your life goal now to, as you yourself admit, witness its downfall. Rationality would just be in the way of pursuing your purpose, would it not?

  19. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy Jamie Zawinski did not think Mozilla.org would live either.

    Netscape coasted at the wrong time and the bundled IE hit at exactly the right time while Netscape was coasting. Netscape killed by IE does not justify the killing of spyglass MS did.

    –Linux, on the other hand, was just as picky about hardware as it is today. Support from hardware manufacturers is almost always first class on Windows, and expecting that they are always happy to follow the way things are done on Linux (i.e. submit driver code to the kernel source tree and leave it to someone else’s mercy) is just plain silly.–

    The plan sill bit depends on what your long term goal of the OS is. If you goal is a proper audited and fixable OS. The Linux path is a correct one.

    New hardware Windows support is first Class unless its a new model arm chip or some other new model cpu that is not x86. Old hardware is very questionable. You buy a new machine when you upgrade windows because Windows is that picky you cannot depend on it running on older hardware.

    Linux and Windows are basically inverse on hardware support. Yes this is due to lack of means to back port from tip in Linux. Both could do way better.

    Linux at 3.7 is on path to do way better with the backport project to allow the new development drivers to be used by the older kernels.

    The attacking IBM is just an attempt to get the FOSS people to fight inside themselves. Just like every other troll arguement when you go look for facts the facts does not back the case.

    IBM has face 4 different court actions over the Hollerith Cards. Each court action rules that IBM was not guilty and 3 of them rules that IBM was a saboteur. Ok yes a saboteur we wish had been more effective.

    There was a more effective saboteur who saves lots of jews. He run a weapons factor that had jew workers. Interest enough the IBM factory in German in world war II was also almost 100 percent staffed by jews. IBM and other companies were doing what ever they could to keep the Jews out the death camps without the Nazi’s suspecting they were working against them.

    IBM was one of the saboteurs companies to the Nazi plan. Problem is being saboteur you do have to do so much to help the enemy.

  20. TEG wrote, “of course there is nothing wrong with directly assisting a genocidal campagin.”

    Of course, even if that were true, which I doubt, the folks that worked at IBM in those days are long gone. It would be like visiting the sins of the fathers on the grandchildren. IBM is not into Hollerith cards these days and is a global corporation with 300K+ employees. M$ on the other hand is run by the same old cronies. Even Gates is still in the building on occasion.

  21. oiaohm says:

    That Exploit Guy
    –There were the Hollerith machines. IBM did not sell them – they leased them. If you had watched the video I posted here some time ago, you would have also noticed that the machines required minor maintenance every two weeks and major maintenance every four weeks. IBM was in charge of all the maintenance work.–
    Z2 minor maintenance once every 6 months. Reality Z2 is fast and requiring less maintenance. Also interest enough if you look at the Hollerith machines running in the USA they only had maintenance every 2 months even under full load. So IBM had in fact sneaked in 3 extra maintenance cycles Nazi’s. This works two ways 1 IBM makes more profit. 2 it lowers through put. This is not IBM working with them. It is IBM working against them. This also came out in the attempted court cases against IBM. IBM was working out how much they could get away with to slow the processing speed down.

    The Z2 uses real to real punched tape. So you can perform a direct query with cascading search in a Z2 where the IBM machine you had to reload back in for each cascade.

    IBM also had plans to put a real to real punched tape in their design and stalled it until after the war was over.

    Yes IBM was providing. But you would not say that IBM was obedient. Its the problem of being a saboteur. You must do enough that your master does not believe you are the saboteur.

    German government paid for IBM factory because supply lines were being unstable. The new factory gave an excuse for poor grade parts. The IBM records tell a very interesting story. Its a very good story not to trust supply just from 1 vendor.

    –Also, every set of records required a punch card design unique for them, and IBM had the copyrights to all the punch card designs. They profited from a massacre, and they knew exactly what they were doing.–
    This is double sided. Is a newspaper guilty for recording a massacre.

    –the one providing Nazi Germany the necessary technology–
    That is where you fall down. there was two sources that could provide the necessary technology. IBM or a German company. The German Companies tech was technically a generation ahead.

  22. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Adam King

    ‘Bookkeeping? Your grand ole argument about IBM being teh ebil naziez comes down to bookkeeping?’

    No, of course there is nothing wrong with directly assisting a genocidal campagin.

    It’s just like there is nothing telling about your own character by posting this kind of yuck-yuck on the Internet.

  23. That Exploit Guy says:

    @dougman

    ‘Meanwhile the subject line of the blog entry “who-helped-you-get-started-with-linux?”’

    Oh, I see. I apologise for not comprehending your bedazzlingly professional presentation, then.

  24. Adam King says:

    On the tmrepository pee stream, DRBoring wrote: “And secondly, IBM maintained an office in Germany during the war, made money through that office, and went so far as to design the double-entry bookkeeping
    system used in mass murder.”

    Bookkeeping? Your grand ole argument about IBM being teh ebil naziez comes down to bookkeeping? This is ambulance chasing at its worst. People like you look for someone to SueSueSueâ„¢ or complain about.

  25. dougman says:

    The Malware Purveyor Troll, AKA “That Exploit Guy” fails reading comprehension.

    He blurts out, Did you get too excited and forget to post the questions?

    Meanwhile the subject line of the blog entry “who-helped-you-get-started-with-linux?”

    Todays Grading: D –

    I think its funny that the trolls always appear on this blog. Makes one wonder how much they are being paid to push the M$ drugs.

  26. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘You completely missed the part where M$ was going around to OEMs, ISPs and the like and making exclusive deals, so the consumers did not have choice on retail shelves as many still do not today.’

    Let’s look at some facts:

    1) When the engineer responsible for Netscape thought it was garbage, you knew its days were numbered with or without MS.

    2) Remember “winmodems”? Those were what people used to use to keep things on the cheap. Linux, on the other hand, was just as picky about hardware as it is today. Support from hardware manufacturers is almost always first class on Windows, and expecting that they are always happy to follow the way things are done on Linux (i.e. submit driver code to the kernel source tree and leave it to someone else’s mercy) is just plain silly.

    3) Yeah, every Linux advocate and his dog knew about the lawsuit. So what? You can sue MS a million times over, but if people are still not buying machines with Linux preinstalled, you just have to admit that they have made their choice however you don’t like it.

    And stop pretending there isn’t a choice.

  27. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘That was the same technology used widely by governments for accounting their census data.’

    Again, it is evident that you did not watch the video, do not know what you are defending and are mindlessly digging yourself to a deeper hole.

    If you go the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and take a look at the Hollerith machine they have curated, you’ll notice the branding clearly displayed on the unit – “IBM”.

    There is no shame in admitting that you have made a mistake in your judgment, whereas what you are doing now is just disgraceful and disrespectful to those who have died in the tragedy.

  28. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    ‘You should shut up about slaughter. GNU/Linux and FLOSS were not even around at the time of WWII. Stored-programme computers did not develop until the 1950s when magnetic core memory came on line.’

    There were the Hollerith machines. IBM did not sell them – they leased them. If you had watched the video I posted here some time ago, you would have also noticed that the machines required minor maintenance every two weeks and major maintenance every four weeks. IBM was in charge of all the maintenance work. Also, every set of records required a punch card design unique for them, and IBM had the copyrights to all the punch card designs. They profited from a massacre, and they knew exactly what they were doing. It is nothing short of irony that you somehow believe, and I quote, that IBM doing ‘a lot of good in the world today’, FOSS or no, means anything to the victims they have shamelessly profited from.

    Of course, why worry about real moral issues when you can create artificial ones where selling proprietary software is worse than committing the act of genocide?

  29. TEG wrote, “I understood why people preferred one OS to another and that it is not my decision as to what’s best for everyone.”

    You completely missed the part where M$ was going around to OEMs, ISPs and the like and making exclusive deals, so the consumers did not have choice on retail shelves as many still do not today. People cannot prefer and OS when there’s only one OS on offer. That’s like elections with only one candidate.

  30. JR says:

    @ Chris Weig

    In case you missed it:

    “Linux constantly fails”

    Would you care to please elaborate on this statement.

  31. TEG wrote, “providing Nazi Germany the necessary technology (i.e. the Hollerith punch card machines) to facilitate genocide.”

    That was the same technology used widely by governments for accounting their census data. It would likely have been sold to Germany whether or not there was eugenics/slaughter/extermination. The various treaty-restrictions on Germany were flawed in not preventing such technology from being sold to Germany. They weren’t supposed to have an airforce but that did not stop them and the world let it happen, not just USA or IBM. The “final solution” was not fully conceived until after the war began so there was no way for IBM to see the future because even the nazis didn’t have it planned out in that level of detail. Should they have blocked the transaction on the basis that evil might result? Perhaps, but they did not know and you cannot reasonably state they did.

    Early on USA and Canada turned back a shipload of Jews trying to emigrate from Europe. You can hardly blame IBM for knowing what was going to happen when USA/Canada did not.

  32. That Exploit Guy says:

    @dougman

    ‘1. M$, VISTA train-wreck 2006
    2. M$, XP support expires in 2014
    3. MS, Windows 8 METROFAIL trainwreck
    4. You did, (meaning me) when you demoed Linux to us’

    Did you get too excited and forget to post the questions? MIT must have helped you a lot there.

  33. Chris Weig wrote, “Linux still hasn’t been able to profit from it. Something’s clearly wrong with this picture.”

    Canonical estimates 5% of PCs will ship with Ubuntu GNU/Linux next year. That’s apart from all the other distros with sweet deals with particular OEMs and retailers around the globe. What’s wrong is your interpretation of reality.

  34. Adam King says:

    By that logic, every time LoseThose is used in a tyranical regime M$ commits another crime against humanity.

  35. Chris Weig says:

    Yes, M$ is its own worst enemy.

    And Linux still hasn’t been able to profit from it. Something’s clearly wrong with this picture.

    You on the other hand have no shortage of own worst enemies. There are about enough FLOSS cult leaders and wannabes.

  36. That Exploit Guy says:

    @Robert Pogson

    I was introduced to Linux back in the 90s via a friend of mine. If my memory is correct, he burned me a copy of Red Hat 4.2 (or was it 5.2?) and asked me to try it. I did. The software itself wasn’t really all that impressive to me in anyway (since I wasn’t familiar with Unix-like systems at the time), but given I was young and impressionable, I did the same thing you did and started preaching to everyone about Linux, FOSS etc. and used virtually every single catchphrase you have in your blog entries – “Wintel” (yes, it was a perjorative created in a time when the only ISA in a low enough price range and a reasonable built-up of software for personal computing was X86, but I am sure, with your “40 years of observation” and what not, know exactly why that’s the case), “M$”, “Internet Exploder” and so on. Of course, as time went by and I started learning more about Linux and Unix-like systems in gerneral, I eventually grew out of the advocacy. You know why? I started as a Windows user, took up being a Linux user, and, at the end, I understood why people preferred one OS to another and that it is not my decision as to what’s best for everyone. I don’t know what people think is best for them, and I certainly don’t have the rights to make that call. Reading your blog is like looking back at my younger self – an egotistical youngster who thinks he knows everything and has all the solutions to every problem.

    When you notice that people sharing the same rhetoric as yours are for some strange reason mostly at about 1/4 to 1/3 of your age, Mr. Pogson, you know it’s the time to go to the mirror and have a good look at yourself.

  37. Chris Weig says:

    What are the Cult of Microsoft doing here? This post has nothing to do with them.

    I thought you were in The Hague already, making sure Microsoft gets convicted of crimes against humanity.

    All talk, kozmcrae, as always.

  38. That Exploit Guy says:

    @oiaohm

    ‘The reality here IBM did not have the best tech for processing that data.’

    Regardless of possible outcomes, IBM was the one providing Nazi Germany the necessary technology (i.e. the Hollerith punch card machines) to facilitate genocide. However you sliced it or diced it, IBM was beyond any reasonable doubts profiting from the atrocity under the supervision of Thomas J. Watson himself.

    There is no excuse.

  39. Yes, M$ is its own worst enemy. It’s pure luck they weren’t broken up a decade ago otherwise they would have fallen flat long ago. The interesting thing is what will happen to the server and business divisions if their desktop OS went down the drain… I can’t see much use for inAD managing GNU/Linux machines.

  40. oldman says:

    “What are the Cult of Microsoft doing here? This post has nothing to do with them.”

    What business is it of yours?

  41. kozmcrae says:

    It was the Internet that informed me of the existence of Linux and got me started. I believe it was a Knoppix (not sure of the spelling) live CD that got me started. I settled on Fedora 3 for my first distro.

    What are the Cult of Microsoft doing here? This post has nothing to do with them.

  42. JR says:

    @ Chris Weig

    Your comment refers…

    “Ever noticed that cars nowadays contain very much proprietary software?”

    May change in the future:

    http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Automotive-manufacturers-gear-up-for-open-source-push-1711638.html

    “Because Windows just happens to work beautifully for the great, great majority of computer users”

    No argument there.

    “Linux constantly fails”

    Would you care to please elaborate on this statement.

  43. dougman says:

    I just posed this question to a few constituents and customers.

    The answers I received:

    1. M$, VISTA train-wreck 2006
    2. M$, XP support expires in 2014
    3. MS, Windows 8 METROFAIL trainwreck
    4. You did, (meaning me) when you demoed Linux to us

    The Windows trolls falsely believe that anything from Redmond is pure gold and will outsell Apple. Like the Zune, Kin, WP 7, Vista, Windows 8 tablets, etc. even if the competition is better. Like Microsoft’s brilliant idea of using a phone UI, on a desktop. These fools believe it’s better than sliced bread.

    For myself, it was college and MIT. 🙂

    So in my analysis, I have to applaud M$ for their efforts in pushing people to Linux. Go TEAM M$…

  44. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig really lot of companies helped with the holocaust. Was there other tech like IBM’s that could have been used. Yes there was.

    Konrad Zuse designed Z2. This is a german designed and made device. Came on line the start of world war 2. One of the for runners to our modern electronic based computers. In fact this item would have processed the data faster that the IBM solution.

    The reality here IBM did not have the best tech for processing that data.

    Lot of historians make a mistake thinking the german government at this point had to use pen and paper record keeping. Punched paper record keeping had come of age at this point.

    The true answer is a shocking one. If IBM had pulled their support and the Z2 had been used instead the records could have been processed faster.

    So in one way IBM hindered the holocaust not as effectively has we would like.

    Z2 was used to design Nazi aircraft and bombs. Other usages include weapon targeting for the long range missles.

    Chris Weig this is a very hard call to say what was the right action.

    IBM one was gear based and did need regular maintenance to keep running.

    Z2 is relay based without gear wear and other problems to cause it to require less maintenance also run faster due to not having to be spinning gears.

    Unfortunate history is not black and white.

    You really need to learn to look more than skin deep Chris Weig. One of the reasons IBM has not be charged with war crimes is the fact the German tech could have done the job faster. There was no advantage to anyone for IBM to with hold. There was more an advantage if ibm did not.

    We would have had the records of who was killed either way done electronically. We would have had people found electronically either way.

  45. Chris Weig says:

    You should shut up about slaughter. GNU/Linux and FLOSS were not even around at the time of WWII. Stored-programme computers did not develop until the 1950s when magnetic core memory came on line.

    Mr. Pogson, have you not mastered the subjunctive?

    And when did you become so sensitive? IBM helping with the holocaust is perfectly okay with you.

  46. Ivan wrote, “You should add that using OSS is the only way to atone for helping butcher Millions of innocents.”

    You should shut up about slaughter. GNU/Linux and FLOSS were not even around at the time of WWII. Stored-programme computers did not develop until the 1950s when magnetic core memory came on line.

  47. Chris Weig blathered on and finally wrote, “Linux constantly fails”.

  48. GNU/Linux runs 90% of HPC clusters
  49. GNU/Linux gets on retail shelves in many parts of the world
  50. Most major OEMs will ship GNU/Linux on PCs if asked by large organizations
  51. GNU/Linux still has fewer viruses/malware than that other OS
  52. GNU/Linux is supported by most hardware manufacturers
  53. So, the only failure is that the “partners” of M$ still resist dealing with GNU/Linux. If retailers everywhere stocked GNU/Linux systems we would soon find what the market share of GNU/Linux was because it would rise dramatically. Chris Weig fears that outcome and is still in “denial”.