Christian Schaller has a well-reasoned response to MdI’s comments on the status of the GNU/Linux desktop. There are plenty of reasons why GNU/Linux is not on more desktops and monopoly/exclusive dealing is at the head of his list too. The other details are insignificant by comparison. Dell and others have no problem selling GNU/Linux desktops retail. Organizations large and small save a bundle migrating to GNU/Linux desktops. It’s not that hard. I found it much easier than struggling to keep that other OS running.
“I just think it is a lot slower slog to get there than we hoped for, and I do honestly feel that we have a much more compelling product to offer today than we did 10 years ago in comparison with Windows and MS Office. But the challenges in my bullet point list remain and overcoming them has been and will continue to be something we have to chip away at, one step at a time.”
see Christian Schaller, The challenges of Desktop Linux.
.
“We can sort out who “everybody†is later.”
Impressive.
A true j@ck@ss in action.
iLia wrote:
“Everybody does it.”
Your Honor, my client, Ted Bundy, would plead that he is not guilty of murdering dozens of women because, “many other serial killers have done the same thing before him”. That nonsense is basically the same as your nonsense.
No iLia, “Everybody does it.” doesn’t fly. All that means is that f*cking “everybody” is f*cking guilty!
We can sort out who “everybody” is later.
Linux world accepts when they screw up from time to time. Microsoft tries to sweep it under carpet.
That’s complete nonsense. There isn’t any more acceptance in the Linux world. It’s rather the case that the screw-up has been declared normal by the constant reference to open development processes (public source code access, public mailing lists etc.). The suggestion is that screw-ups basically can’t happen because the development processes are open, and someone else will catch any screw-up very soon, precisely because the processes are open.
So the Linux world has, in fact, a much bigger carpet where things can be swept under. Because if screw-ups happen, they can’t have been anyone’s fault, as everything happened publicly. Incidentally, the many-eyes-hypothesis is soundly defeated by the mere fact that screw-ups still happen in the Linux world. The whole openness is a mighty fine way to hide screw-ups.
And there’s another big problem: in the Linux world screw-ups, however big or small, seldom have real consequences.
It’s just another example of amazing self-delusion.
FOSS just does not hide this reality from the world under fancy people called marketers.
These are called FLOSS zealots.
As a matter of fact, Microsoft loves to break standards
Everybody does it, when some company or community implements some standard, they usually extend it a little bit, and thus break compatibility with other products, you wanna some examples? No problem! GNU compilers with their extensions, GNUStep and I can continue ad nauseum, everybody does it, even Linux distributions.
FOSS just does not hide this reality from the world under fancy people called marketers.
oldman “Remember Hamster, under the Volume and Select license agreements I have access to iso images of so clalled obsolete versions of windows along with downgrade rights to any version of windows that I wish – I only need to make sure that I have a license that is a close equivalent to what I am downgrading to (e.g. a windows 8 ultimate license can be downgraded to windows 7 ultimate or below).”
The plan is simple. You want to run current and prior you deploy 2 license per machine. Either way Microsoft is still paid. They don’t lose doing this evil. At worst they get more money. Microsoft will play it under the security card.
oldman
–So we stay put and scream like hell, and being the paying customers Microsoft will listen, and will “accommodate user feedback‖
They have given you 4 years notice+. You scream like hell you still have to pay them if you stay Microsoft. Only those who sections of thee desktop are Linux will be able to get MS attention in any way shape or form.
oldman
–And the linux desktop will STILL go nowhere!–
When will you give this up. You cannot have repeated reported migrations that complete and remain in usage and it be go nowhere. Logic does not allow it oldman. As an IT officer you should know logic well but when it comes to Linux Desktop you seam to be lack it.
The pace might be slow but there is movement. Linux Desktop is with question moving. All the evidence to the fact shows it.
Lots of thing you say oldman have no logical base to them. They are your own bias options.
iLia
“lacking guilt — debian-openssl? So what?”
You better look at Microsoft for this one. MD5 cracked years ago. Windows update system still using it. Debian openssl was a build error. Microsoft provide encryption services have also done the same.
Really if I spent my time on Psychopathy I could make a list for Microsoft as well. Most businesses are Psychopathy at core. FOSS just does not hide this reality from the world under fancy people called marketers.
Linux world accepts when they screw up from time to time. Microsoft tries to sweep it under carpet.
Thorsten Rahn wrote:
“If you think that then you don’t understand Robert Pogson at all. This blog is about two things:…”
The problem you face Thorsten is that Microsoft supplies a never ending list of anti social, anti competitive and downright nasty acts against the World.
As a matter of fact, Microsoft loves to break standards. That just creates a terrible mess for everybody. As a matter of fact, Microsoft has used its position in the PC market to kill competitors products (Netscape, Word Perfect).
Reporting these aggressions against the World may look like hate to someone like you. And you can’t just call it business as usual unless you call convicted monopolist usual.
Now I’ll offer my opinion. Microsoft is a huge company with a lot of power, money, influence and an inferiority complex. That’s a bad combination. They’ve always been able to buy their way into the public’s heart. Microsoft has spent more on marketing than on technology. Only one out of nine employees are actual coders. Buying their way to success instead of winning it through better technology must have left a hollow ring to it.
The hype for Windows 8 has already started as I have predicted. Not much of a prediction really. This is Microsoft’s marketing machine by the book. The rave reviews will increase as the release date approaches. Then we will see a huge spike in sales/installations. Possibly even the biggest release of a Microsoft OS since Windows 95! It will look fantastic… on paper.
I have no doubts that Microsoft has already cooked the books to ensure a good quarter for the release of Windows 8 no matter what actually happens. But slowly, inevitably, the rot will sink in.
Thorsten Rahn confuses motivation with subject matter when he wrote, “This blog is about two things:
1. Hating Microsoft.
2. Proving that Linux is better everywhere and for everyone.”
Hatred of M$ is just one of many motivators. All my life, before M$ even existed, I have strived to find better ways/technology to do things. I am a technological sponge and GNU/Linux and FLOSS are just two of dozens of technologies I have encountered and love. Other technologies about which I am passionate are photography, firearms, ammunition, hunting, welding, electronics, growing stuff, cooking and eating stuff, … M$ is a tiny part of my world these days.
GNU/Linux is provably pretty good and great for many purposes like IT in schools and I can’t think of any place where GNU/Linux is not good but there may well be some niches where some other software may be better. The wide adoption of GNU/Linux in every area of IT supports the hypothesis that GNU/Linux is excellent. The lack of adoption on the desktop is due to many factors, most of which have nothing to do with suitability but anti-competitive behaviours of M$ and “partners”. GNU/Linux thrives in many countries and regions and activities on a global scale.
The primary focus of the dialog on this blog seems to be where the market is with regard to both platforms and where it is going.
If you think that then you don’t understand Robert Pogson at all. This blog is about two things:
1. Hating Microsoft.
2. Proving that Linux is better everywhere and for everyone.
That goes directly against your statement that “[t]here are problems with both platforms”. After you’ve read Robert Pogson’s posts you can’t help but get the impression that Linux has no problems, Windows has all the problems, and that Microsoft belongs to the axis of evil together with North Korea. Every accusation against Linux on this blog — however justified — is quickly and swiftly dismissed by the local FLOSS police.
You saying that “[t]here are problems with both platforms” is just hot air. It’s the kind of alibi statement one does make if one wants to suggest willingness to compromise.
Did I mention that the blog visits are growing at the rate of 300% per annum since then?
You should be grateful to tmrepository.com for it
Psychopathy – a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by
shallow emotions
(in particular reduced fear), — we are not afraid of Microsoft!
stress tolerance — it is really important when your favored OS has so much bugs
lacking empathy — fix it yourself
coldheartedness — it works for me
lacking guilt — debian-openssl? So what?
egocentricity — I use Linux, I use Linux, I use Linux
superficial charm — just take a look on these nice KDE/Unity screenshots
manipulativeness — use Linux, use Open Source, don’t compare them with real software,
irresponsibility — Why you didn’t fixed this bug three yeas ago? — And why I should care? No one pays me for doing it
nonplanfulness — Lunus he is such a git
impulsivity — let’s rewrite the project from the scratch.
and antisocial behaviors such as
— installing Linux wherever it is possible
— an endless stream of gratuitous imaginary vicious public insults
parasitic lifestyle — when you have to fix, fix and fix Linux there is no time for job or for learning some useful technology, that can help you earn some money
and
criminality — are spreading of BS about Linux and unstoppable lies about MS a crime?
ILia was not.
Never had problems with Internet access.
No, wait! I had! A long time ago when win-modems were everywhere I installed Linux, and you know what? No drivers — no Internet access. I wasn’t happy 🙁
The other thing is that GNU/Linux is not out to get you or to kill competition. Hating the cooperative work of the world is the behaviour of a psycopath or paranoid person. Get over it. FLOSS is not out to get you.
Psychopathy – “a personality disorder that has been variously described as characterized by shallow emotions (in particular reduced fear), stress tolerance, lacking empathy, coldheartedness, lacking guilt, egocentricity, superficial charm, manipulativeness, irresponsibility, nonplanfulness, impulsivity, and antisocial behaviors such as parasitic lifestyle and criminality.”
M$ has the stated goal of taking over the world and making people pay M$ for nothing so they are to be hated appropriately.
Hate – ” To have a great aversion to, with a strong desire that evil should befall the person toward whom the feeling is directed; to dislike intensely; to detest; as, to hate one’s enemies; to hate hypocrisy.
[1913 Webster]”
@ldman wants to know why hating Linux makes one a less believable advocate for Linux. I’m not sure where to start with that. Maybe that hating is active instead of passive. Someone who hates Linux will be looking for reasons not to use it and will be unconsciously or otherwise advocating for using something else.
You could argue that having no love for Linux would make you more unbiased. But that doesn’t lead to a conclusion that most of the statements made by Linux advocates are unreliable.
There are problems with both platforms (Microsoft vs GNU/Linux and FLOSS). Switching from one to the other is a trade off of problems. Advocating for one platform is advocating for the advantages of that platform and not for the problems, obviously. Most of the people who post on this blog are aware of the advantages and problems with both platforms. I would surmise, in spite of what some have declared, that all of us use the platform we do out of free will.
The primary focus of the dialog on this blog seems to be where the market is with regard to both platforms and where it is going. I think it’s safe to say that
1: It is a very different market than it was 10 years ago, and again from what it was even 5 years ago. and
2: It’s changing at an accelerating rate.
Those two attributes favor entrepreneurship and new technologies and are a crushing weight to the status quo. There should be no argument here about which platform is which.
iLia wrote, about FLOSS, “hate, anger”.
Take a look at these faces…
and these results
Did I mention that the blog visits are growing at the rate of 300% per annum since then? The middle image is a wall of old PCs rescued from Lose ’98 by GNU/Linux. Students went from needing permission to visit the lab down the hall to having web access and local computing close at hand. They were happy. I was happy. ILia was not.
“oldman really you need to sit down and watch the WPC 2011 videos. MS plan is nice for them. Nasty for everyone else.”
I’ve seen the videos, and frankly they don’t even phase me.
Why?
Because microsoft has pulled things like this before, only to back off when the customers screamed.
But such a situation will only happen if the proposed changes are a total debacle. If microsoft its ISV’s convert their applications to the new interface successfully, and enable them to offer new function and feature that is unique to the applications they will succeed, or they are going to have to keep around the legacy environment for a while. the nonsense of hyper-v and an extra copy is just that – nonsense. Microsoft is not going to be able to get away with screwing its customer base, and it that customer base feels too screwed, they will simply freeze in place – stopping the flow of MONEY to microsoft.
And as you have noted – money talks.
Remember Hamster, under the Volume and Select license agreements I have access to iso images of so clalled obsolete versions of windows along with downgrade rights to any version of windows that I wish – I only need to make sure that I have a license that is a close equivalent to what I am downgrading to (e.g. a windows 8 ultimate license can be downgraded to windows 7 ultimate or below).
So we stay put and scream like hell, and being the paying customers Microsoft will listen, and will “accommodate user feedback”
And the linux desktop will STILL go nowhere!
And you will still be doing construction in the middle of nowhere and making believe you are actually in IT.
“Hating Linux just makes you less believable. ”
Why?
If you want eliminate uncertainty about FLOSS just install some desktop Linux, and there will be no uncertainty about FLOSS, just hate, anger and a little compassion towards linuxoids who still use it.
Comment by kozmcrae
Thorsten Rahn wrote:
“Linux earns me money. And I can hate it. That’s a win-win situation for me.”
No you idiot, that’s a win-hate situation for you. You’re as dumb as a bag of hammers. I’m not making a distinction between hating something and enjoying hating something. It appears that your relationship with Linux falls into the latter category.
There’s really not much sense in trying to debate with you. There’s the normal Cult of Microsoft brick wall of anti-logic and with you there’s this weird relationship you have with Linux. Using Linux doesn’t make your experience with it anymore believable than the next guys. Hating Linux just makes you less believable.
I don’t know what you expect to accomplish here Thorsten but if it’s to introduce uncertainty about FLOSS you’ve already blown it. Your words carry no weight at all.
Clarence Moon wrote, of desktop GNU/Linux, “If ever it is encountered, it is presented as a bottom of the line substitute for a “real†PC.”
That is inconsistent with facts:
So, welcome to the real world. On retail shelves, one can find PCs with GNU/Linux in all price-ranges. ZAreason etc. charge premium prices as well they should. The value of that other OS is negative IMHO so it is worth more to buy a PC pre-installed of GNU/Linux. OTOH, in a competitive market OEMs may well offer GNU/Linux as a price-advantage at the low-end. Whatever works.
BTW, I have never seen people *demand* Windows, the uninformed masses haven’t a clue on whats available.
You flaunt your high school education, placing you above the uninformed masses, Mr. Doug, but you totally miss the point. People do not demand Windows, they simply “expect” it to be on any computer they buy unless it is a Mac.
A Linux machine in a retail store is a rare avis to be sure, unless, like Mr. Pogson, you do all your computer shopping in Brazil. If ever it is encountered, it is presented as a bottom of the line substitute for a “real” PC. Profits on such machines are minimal and manufacturers shun them for lack of revenues as well as the corresponding increase in support requests that flow from such unenlighted customers who might be persuaded to buy one.
oldman really not its greed. You want to run legacy apps pay for a extra copy of windows to run in hyper-v under Windows 9. Even then that support will be limited.
oldman really you need to sit down and watch the WPC 2011 videos. MS plan is nice for them. Nasty for everyone else.
BTW, I have never seen people *demand* Windows, the uninformed masses haven’t a clue on whats available.
Is that so? But you really seem to like selling useless software (anti-virus, anti-malware etc.) to the clueless masses of Windows users.
Go, FLOSS!
“ch current plans for windows 9 is by by legacy support. So metro apps only.”
Nope.
It wouldn’t be the first time that Microsoft guessed wrong. My own prediction will be to expect “legacy” apps to be supported for at least another decade, with the desktop taking its place along the now 20+ year old command line as a supported alternate interface.
2015 / 2016 for the date it was covered WPC 2011 conference.
ch current plans for windows 9 is by by legacy support. So metro apps only.
Maybe Windows 9 will be Android based?
A few years ago one was able to go in BestBuy and purchase Ubuntu.
http://bayimg.com/IAbPMAaen
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/07/09/026208/best-buy-is-selling-ubuntu
“ch windows 8 is ment to soften you up for the great change Windows 9 is ment to be.”
And that will be … ?
ch windows 8 is ment to soften you up for the great change Windows 9 is ment to be.
“if a desktop OEM put Android GUI on the desktop akin to Metro, people would buy it without knowing what the OS was.”
And would return it once they find out that ACME’s Great Garden Planner doesn’t run on “this other stuff” – or when they get bored of using a touchscreen-optimized GUI on their non-touch desktop. Whereas Win8 contains our good, old Windows desktop, just with a different start menu 😉
What they demand is Windows on their PCs, period.
Most don’t care that much about the OS on their tablet or smartphone, as long as there are enough “apps†available.
Just contradicted yourself; if a desktop OEM put Android GUI on the desktop akin to Metro, people would buy it without knowing what the OS was.
BTW, I have never seen people *demand* Windows, the uninformed masses haven’t a clue on whats available. I have repeatedly demo’d Linux many of times and the looks I received was priceless, period.
I’ve always said that the best way to prove out either OS is to run a 30-day kiosk at a mall, stock OS.
ch you find the Linux world talking about its defects a lot. Ingo Molnar is not the only one.
There are enough faults without the made up ones.
“This isn’t happening – mostly because of you fanboys shouting down anyone who suggests that Linux might be less than utterly perfect. So thanks to you, Microsoft knows that Linux won’t become a problem for them anytime soon. Keep up the good work!”
Really I only shout down people over doing the fault. Like the claim a stable ABI on Linux does not exist. Reality one exists its usable. Saying the lie hides from people that it does exist.
Now knowing what exists might allow someone to develop a more sane solution. LSB has its own dynamic binary loader. That gets around a lot of platform problems.
Steam providing applications might also sort out the distribution mess. Lack of common store for commercial applications has been a problem. Zeroinstall and many others have proven distribution neutral could be built and does work. No one has every taken any of these techs commercial.
“It’s simply different devices, different markets. Nobody sane expects MS Project to run on a smartphone”
Look at the ganttproject feature request list. Guess what android. Ch it also serous-ally depends on the phone some phones have miro projectors and hdmi. So you are not stuck to that 4 inch screen.
“Why would the same people accept */Linux on one kind of PC and demand M$’s stuff on another? They don’t.”
Correct: They don’t. What they demand is Windows on their PCs, period. Most don’t care that much about the OS on their tablet or smartphone, as long as there are enough “apps” available.
It’s simply different devices, different markets. Nobody sane expects MS Project to run on a smartphone – just imagine looking at a slightly complex Gantt chart on a 4″ screen. So smartphones need completely different software.
There is a bit of overlap with tablets and especially convertibles, and because of that I expect Windows 8 to do quite well: You can use “Metro” apps designed for the touchscreen and fall back to Windows applications if you need them (and if you can use them with a touchscreen or you’re switching your convertible to notebook configuration).
oiaohm wrote, “So single point of failure still applies. Thin client does not make that problem much worse.”
Chuckle, some schools expand their LTSP networks by just adding terminal servers. The one less busy logs people in and even has its own DHCP server. One goes down, its clients reboot and connect to another minimizing downtime. So, the single point of failure is reduced in importance. In all my years I have not had to do that because GNU/Linux on a single server is so reliable.
ch wrote, “the mainstream market wants PCs with Windows”.
No, it does not. The mainstream market has a single supplier of bundled OS on retail shelves. Just look at smart thingies where that other OS is not available. They are selling like hot cakes. People are not demanding that other OS because it has only a few percent share of units. Why would the same people accept */Linux on one kind of PC and demand M$’s stuff on another? They don’t. I know people who hate M$ and all its restrictions and vulnerabilities but buy it because they do not know how to install an OS or even know that other OS exist. They may shop in places that do not offer MacOS, for instance.
At work, most places still supply PCs and use that other OS only because the IT guys are locked in. The users are not demanding that other OS. Of course, if you changed to GNU/Linux over the weekend there would be complaints and questions about how to do stuff but that is resistance to change not a demand for M$’s stuff. If users are familiar with GNU/Linux they would resist a change to that other OS as well.
It used to be that only wealthy people of Earth could afford PCs. That has changed with small cheap computers. Within a few years the number of people who could afford and had access to smart thingies as PCs has doubled. Those people were not locked in to Wintel as they had no computers at all. Now they are happily using Android/Linux because it is affordable and works. They are not demanding that other OS and they are the new mainstream. The old mainstream was countries like USA. Only a few years ago they were using 33% the world’s production of PCs (2004). Now they are down to 15.9 million of 86.7 million global production of x86 PCs. That’s only 18%. Last year the world bought far more smart thingies than x86 PCs. They are not demanding Wintel.
PogsonLogic (TM) is really fascinating:
a) Microsoft has a monopoly (meaning, of course, that there is no alternative). Why? Because:
“My local Walmart has none, zero, nada x86 PC besides Wintel.”
b) Linux is a completely viable alternative (meaning, of course, that Microsoft doesn’t hold a monopoly). Why? Because:
“Check out Walmart.com.br and see GNU/Linux competing very well”
RP – one man having his cake and eating it every day!
Now let’s get serious. The simple fact is that the mainstream market wants PCs with Windows (and a few Macs). So in rich countries, retailers offer PCs with Windows pre-installed (and a few Macs, maybe). In poor countries, retailers offer PCs with whatever no-cost OS slapped on them (they don’t need to worry about said no-cost OS actually working well) and trust their customers to know where to get Windows for $1. Result: Customers get what they want at a price they are willing to pay, retailer makes money, and either Microsoft or the guey selling Windows for $1 makes money, too.
If you want this to change, Linux has to become a more attractive product for mainstream users. The first step for this to happen would be to admit that Linux has problems and talk about them. This isn’t happening – mostly because of you fanboys shouting down anyone who suggests that Linux might be less than utterly perfect. So thanks to you, Microsoft knows that Linux won’t become a problem for them anytime soon. Keep up the good work!
BTW, here’s another paid M$ $hill:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe#109922199462633401279/posts/HgdeFDfRzNe
That doesn’t buy you any clout, none. But you do get credit for being masochist by managing to get yourself into a position where you are forced to use an OS that you hate for 16 years.
Ah, you see, that’s a misunderstanding on your part. Linux earns me money. And I can hate it. That’s a win-win situation for me. My preferred customers are small businesses. Despite being not “locked-in” with Linux (LOL), you practically own small businesses, because in 99% percent of all cases you’re their only IT guy. And most don’t bother to get a second opinion. So I can sell them my own subscription-based “basic support”. I like my job.
I see Flying Toaster is still as dumb as normal.
Even a thick client network you still have a single point of failure. The login server. ADS server goes down users might not be able to login that simple. So single point of failure still applies. Thin client does not make that problem much worse. Thin client removes having to run everywhere to clean up virus infections that you have in a thick client network.
Thin terminal devices these days do have auto fall over so deploy 2 servers both have to fail before users cannot login.
My DNA fault is not psychokinesis because by body is constantly broadcasting normally not strong enough to a problem different chemical states in blood stream changes that. Cause it different proteins. If you take my blood and introduce the chemicals a human produces when tense and some suger for fuel that alone is a radio jammer. Problem is freq targeted will be kind of random. This is just being biologically different. I am a natural born Jammer of particular frequencies. I lack 1 protein everyone else has and I have 2 proteins that no one-less has so far. The one miss protein normally causes a DNA illness the two extras counter it but cause some interesting side effects one being the jammer ablity. My jammer ability technically does not require my brain to work just the right mix of chemicals.
Natural born radio jammer is normally a cell wall fault somewhere. Depending on what it is depends on what it effects and what freqs are generated cell wall generates loud enough to be problems depend on where the other cell walls are with the defect. Always this is a broad spectrum effects. I have seen others that broad cast the correct freqs to make silicon transistors fire. They have major trouble using computers and other modern day devices. They are basically a biological replication of a electronic bug finder. My fault is not that useful. Yes what I effect is freq locked by my DNA and cell placement. This is interesting because it does directly suggest there could be creatures who do talk by radio signal other than us. Also that some areas of the radio spectrum that is extremely noisy that is not our doing might be other life as well as other natural sources. Because there is no particular reason why this could not be controlled in other creatures.
As you can see flying toaster the answer is truly complex.
Most of the stuff TM Repository is bogus and they don’t know what they are talking about. Just because something old does not make it not real. DNA faults create some very interesting humans.
Really I wish people like Flying toaster would learn to shut up. Because he mostly does not have its facts in order. This not uncommon for that crappy place.
TM Repository there are lot of myths.
Like the Linux does not have a Stable ABI. This is pure Myth. It has a primary very stable ABI for kernel to user-space. That a stable ABI on Linux exists does not mean Linux still cannot be a ass-hole to closed source developers. Stable ABI’s does not equal you having to be friendly.
There is a lot of myths that Mandatory profiles under Windows improve security. But due to poor implementation it ruins your security.
Also that link of yours Flying Toaster is a twit. Dave Richards, me and many others are running thin terminal setups. We can tell you now we don’t design a single point of failure. I mentions 2 servers. Each server is able to handle 100+ users alone. Thin terminal devices these days contain auto fall over. You might have many users drop out at once on a thin terminal setup but they are all back in doing work inside 10 seconds if you have redundancy in your networks.
Besides you ADS server falls over. Most businesses you cannot login anyhow. So result running thick clients or thin you have a single point of failure unless you design around it.
So what ever Flying_Toaster says at TM Repository should be disregarded he has never worked with a business network to be aware single point of failure exists either way.
Reality is most of the people at TM Repository don’t know at thing.
Flying_Toaster has no clue really.
My DNA fault alters removes particular protein from my body and replaces with two different mutated proteins with some interesting properties. These proteins are used to build the cell walls. So Flying Toaster does not understand how different a little DNA change can make. I cannot give blood to another human because due to my dna fault even my red blood cells could cause their white blood cells to go nuts and kill there own body. My ability is not psychokinesis since its not exactly coming from the brain. tense ie stress/angry counts… This is due to chemicals that in the blood stream because of these moods.
Yes if I do take blood from my body place it in a tray expose it to chemicals a body produces when tense by by wifi signal. Its a three way reaction. The 2 proteins plus the chemicals when produced when tense or stressed.
There is another really interesting ability when stressed I have I second way of processing sugar and carbohydrates due to this my body can get to 50 C core temp and take no cell damage. Its caused many a doctor to panic when I have a cold and my body is like 45C and I fell fine. The wifi jamming is a side effect. Normal sugar break down reaction produces heat. Mine body due to the defect has two ways of processing sugar to extract power. There is the possibility that I could run a core body temp of 60C and not die and not be harmed never been tested and I am not going to intentionally. Normal DNA human will be dead exposed to that.
psychokinesis is direct brain control. This is use brain to control body that cause body to do the jamming. So my biochemistry is not exactly normal. The issue is my biochemistry fault is not 100 percent unique either. There are other people with defective proteins or also transmit on old freq.
The reality is my body is always transmitting in a lot of different freqs a human should not be and all I have is volume control of it. Mine being in 2.4 Ghz is rare. There are a lot of people with DNA faults that broadcast radio noise. The worst are the people who generate on the right freqs to interfere with silicon chips. They complain about everything electronic failing on them. Cause them.
Flying Toaster there things in heaven and earth than you can dream. There is no real formal name for you cell wall construction being wrong resulting in you being a walking transmitter. Human maggents are simpler thing. So really when you know what my body can do and others you wonder what a Human could possible evolve into.
TM Repository wrote:
“Nothing is perfect and nobody is exempt from criticism. I personally don’t want to see Linux die, but there are some serious flaws that prevent me from using it professionally. The first step to getting those issues fixed is to admit they exist.”
We don’t need to criticize Linux, that’s your job. Our job is to criticize Microsoft. Don’t try to screw things up on us. 😉
TM wrote, “I went to retail shelves at BestBuy and saw more Apple products than Windows.”
We don’t have BestBuy here.Correction. They have recently opened two stores in our city of 700K. I guess I will have to drop in one of these days to check them out. We have lots of others though and I don’t remember ever seeing a Mac on sale. I don’t know how people buy them in Canada.“The first Best Buy Canada stores were opened in the fall of 2002, with eight locations in the Greater Toronto Area. Over the next two years, Best Buy expanded west, opening more stores in Ontario and entering new markets in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia.”
Hmmm… I was in the North when they opened stores in Winnipeg. Guess I missed that. I have probably passed the one on St. James Avenue a time or two and did not recognize it, keeping the eyes on the road and all that… Indeed, it’s right next to FutureShop where I have done some business. On St. James street, I usually visit two smaller stores further north.
Bestbuy.ca does indeed list Macs of several kinds but they also list noOS PCs.
No mention of GNU/Linux but there is lots of Android/Linux. Pity they don’t dare to allow side-by-side price comparisons but they do allow choice of OS before products are actually displayed. Strange behaviour for a company called BestBuy. Without price comparison between alternatives it should be called WorstBuy.
TM wrote, “just because we’re complaining about issues with Linux doesn’t mean we think what Microsoft or Apple is doing is by any means perfect.”
This may surprise you, but this is not the GNU/Linux complaint department. It’s down the hall and two floors up…
“You really would rather not defend Microsoft. It’s easier to attack the other side’s character. And you complain about me?”
We don’t love Microsoft, so we don’t defend it. It may hard for a zealot to believe, but just because we’re complaining about issues with Linux doesn’t mean we think what Microsoft or Apple is doing is by any means perfect.
Nothing is perfect and nobody is exempt from criticism. I personally don’t want to see Linux die, but there are some serious flaws that prevent me from using it professionally. The first step to getting those issues fixed is to admit they exist.
A good project I follow is Django because every year at DjangoCon they have a “what I hate about Django” panel where they talk about all the stuff that sucks with their product. They’re pragmatic, unafraid to look inward, fully aware it isn’t perfect and the only way to fix problems is to admit they exist instead of apologize for them!
Thorsten Rahn
http://docs.gstreamer.com/display/GstSDK/Playback+tutorial+8%3A+Hardware-accelerated+video+decoding
Exactly how does Gstreamer suck at GPU decoding it does it very well. I use that feature quite a bit Thorsten Rahn.
With Windows 8 MS is pulling mpeg2 codec from the out the box experience. Its also not that the default MS Audio api is a spring chicken in design either.
Thorsten Rahn
“Again, no monopoly. There have been plenty of Office alternatives available from the dawn of time.”
There was and most of them don’t exist any more.
MS basically held a summit got them all to agree to use RTF then backstabbed them with it.
Thorsten Rahn
“So he’s finally admitting what everyone sane knew all along? But why does he use the past tense? This problem still persists!”
Because to a lot of us it is past there are many solution that work to ship a single binary to many distributions. The most evil is the virtual machine image.
Thorsten Rahn
–Linux has no stable APIs (and doesn’t need them according to enlightened people like Greg Kroah-Hartman).–
Pure lie. Please read what Greg Kroah-Hartman said.
http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/stable_api_nonsense.txt
“Please realize that this article describes the _in kernel_ interfaces, not the kernel to userspace interfaces. The kernel to userspace interface is the one that application programs use, the syscall interface. That interface is _very_ stable over time, and will not break.”
So Linux kernel to user-space ABI is stable.
So you can write a user-space installer that uses just kernel provide ABI to probe the system to work out what in heck beast you are dealing with. These are known as static binaries under Linux and they do work with every distribution in existence including Android. So no common ABI is a myth.
So yes there is 1 100 percent sure stable and common ABI to everything Linux. The syscall system. If its not there the Linux kernel is not there. Once you have a running program you can then probe what the system has. Again very much like a windows installer. Just like a windows install the archive to installer can be glued after it. Interesting enough the Linux syscall installer can be used on Solaris, Freebsd, HPUX and AIX because all these can emulate Linux syscalls. So you wish to make a universal shell independent installer for most of the Unix world you make a Linux Static Binary and restrict the syscalls you use.
http://glandium.org/blog/?p=2664
Just to be more insane with a bit of effort you can access the Linux kernel symbol table in the installer and altering your loadable module to match. Even detect if it will fail. They deprecate symbols if they change function. You don’t need the linux kernel source headers or anything else to make a binary that the current kernel can load. All the information you need is in the kernel binary itself.
When you combined this with http://linux.dell.com/dkms/manpage.html there is no reason why you cannot release a closed source driver for Linux.
There is no reason for a stable in kernel ABI. Because if you do that you have to keep deprecated functions around as wrappers.
Of course making sure you have not presumed that locks have been taken out for you and other things by the functions you have call.
The problem here is the open source developers have not had to make the tools for the closed source developers. Wait they have had to with dkms. dkms still require Linux kernel headers at this stage.
There was also a framework done in the hope of making unified drivers between all Unix systems. Linux kernel did support it. No closed source drivers were ever released for it.
Thorsten Rahn basically there is enough stable ABI to be able to install on any distribution. Linux virus writers have successfully done it. But for some reason commercial applications cannot. From a static binary you could even setup your own dynamic binary loaders if you don’t know the distribution you are running on (yes some virus on Linux do this kinda gives themselves away). Thing is there has been enough stable abi for since 1996. Just no one has really put the effort into design a commercial application installer for Linux.
Linux kernel itself cannot load .so files. Serousally does not know how. A static binary named ld-linux.so.2 that is a little program is used. This is tagged at the start of the elf file. This include the path to where that little static program is located. This is changeable on install. So yes a distribution does not have the libraries your program wants. You smartly include either Linux standard base dynamic loader or your own so you now can do a windows and install the versions of the libraries you program depends on with your program.
This is the reality the frameworks to ship closed source programs on Linux exist. Unless something is like X11 server or pulseaudio that is a running service is a issue for your program everything else about the distribution can be bypassed.
“Now go check retail shelves at your local big box retailer to see if there are any competitive product on shelves besides M$’s stuff. My local Walmart has none, zero, nada x86 PC besides Wintel. That’s a “privilege of selling a commodityâ€. That’s a monopoly. The monopoly is certainly shaky in that one can buy */Linux smart phones and tablets but if the commodity is x86 notebooks, M$ has that exclusive privilege.”
I went to retail shelves at BestBuy and saw more Apple products than Windows. If you haven’t noticed, Macbooks run on intel cores. Those are x86 notebooks!
Tell me Pog, have you actually BEEN to a retail outlet where electronics are sold?
kozmcrae wrote, “I don’t recall any promises being made, just methodical fixes and advances from one update to the next.”
Yes, that’s a recipe for success. M$ has promised the sky too often and delivered malware, re-re-reboots and BSODS.
The areas where GNU/Linux is widely accepted are numerous and have one thing in common, M$ did not stoop to involve itself in those areas until GNU/Linux or Android/Linux had thrived. The desktop OS is in principle no different. Linus and others have said it is more difficult because of the diversity of hardware but coverage is very good actually. There is no technical show-stopper for GNU/Linux on the desktop. Except for M$’s machinations, GNU/Linux would be on retail shelves everywhere. Brainwashing for decades does have an effect but it is slowly being undone as a new generation familiar with */Linux on smart thingies and small cheap computers arises. Thanks to Moore’s Law and */Linux the number of users of IT who have not been corrupted by M$ is rapidly increasing due to affordability and performance. Even if GNU/Linux somehow is not acceptable for some roles it certainly is acceptable on the desktop as many millions know.
Thorsten Rahn wrote:
“This is about hating Linux for 20+ years of empty promises.”
What did Linux promise you, a date with Sharon Stone? Really, whose hype were you listing to? I don’t recall any promises being made, just methodical fixes and advances from one update to the next.
If someone had said Linux would be king of High Performance Computing, he would be correct. I think you can see where I’m going with this right? I don’t need to rattle off all of the markets where Linux dominates or is a strong competitor.
So what are the “promises” who made them and why are they broken?
“(Don’t worry, I’ve been using it since ’96.)”
That doesn’t buy you any clout, none. But you do get credit for being masochist by managing to get yourself into a position where you are forced to use an OS that you hate for 16 years.
“And you complain about me?
And where did I complain about you?”
The “you” in that statement was not you personally but the “you” in the Cult of Microsoft. If you say you didn’t complain about me at this early date I’ll take that as fact.
Clarence Moon The Great Marketeer wrote:
“Linux is like tap water in the bottled water market.”
Drink hearty from the Red Hat and Ubuntu tap!
When these Cult of Microsoft types get all full of themselves and speak, they say the most amazingly idiotic things.
Clarence Moon, not having read The Cathedral and the Bazaar…
“ESR” is not much of a success in business, Mr. Pogson, and citing his babbling is hardly much of a reply to the notion that Linux today is not really “competing” with anything.
Linux is like tap water in the bottled water market. People who do not see the advantages of bottled water drink tap water. In some places very few may drink anything else, perhaps akin to people in Brazil not buying Windows computer (if that is the reality although web stats show Brazilians using Windows at about the same level as they do in the USA and so your claim is likely bogus).
To continue the analogy, in many other places, bottled water is a popular item. The companies that sell bottled water, analogous to Microsoft selling Windows OS, care only about how many people are buying it and how much they will spend and what characteristics of the product seem to result in increased sales. Microsoft only cares about how well Windows is selling and takes whatever steps seem reasonable to maintain and enhance those sales. It is just a business at the end of the day and for nearly 30 years it has been a very profitable business. It has been a profitable business this year and will be a profitable business next year and the year after that.
You see an end to the road, but no one else with any credentials in the business see that.
“Lpbbear’s life is probably in shambles, too. And now the only thing he’s got left is Linux. It’s that or drinking himself delirious with cheap beer.”
Wow! My life is in shambles? I drink myself delirious with cheap beer?
Just unbelievable to me what lowlife scumbags M$ft shills are!
Again….
Although I wonder if it is as great as they say it is why do they spend so much energy here defending it?
And yes….Windows IS a monopoly….but we are working hard to change that….and slowly….but steadily…..we are.
Sucks to be you.
You really would rather not defend Microsoft.
Now we’re getting somewhere. You’re perfectly right. There’s no need for me or anyone else to defend Microsoft. This is about hating Linux for 20+ years of empty promises. It’s rather curious why someone would defend an OS which sucks in spades on the desktop. (Don’t worry, I’ve been using it since ’96.)
It’s easier to attack the other side’s character.
No, it’s not. But it’s perfectly legit once you realize that your opponent will not give you serious answers to simple questions. Windows is not a monopoly. Your companion, lpbbear, claims that it is, despite the very obvious facts. I would agree with him, if a) no other OS were available and b) computers could only be bought with Windows. Both a) and b) are not true.
And you complain about me?
And where did I complain about you?
Thorsten Rahn puked:
“I really do wonder why Rob’s blog only attracts washed-up characters when it comes to defending Linux. Lpbbear’s life is probably in shambles, too. And now the only thing he’s got left is Linux. It’s that or drinking himself delirious with cheap beer.”
You really would rather not defend Microsoft. It’s easier to attack the other side’s character. And you complain about me?
Re: Can you buy computers without Windows?
For the average consumer, that poses a challenge in itself. Especially when the OEM’s paste on the screen, “We recommend Windows”, that by the way was paid for by M$.
Re: Can you install other operating systems which are not Windows on your computers?
Some MVP’s will lie and say it’s illegal to remove Windows.
UEFI will make that technically challenging, M$ lie about security is a joke as they are trying to lock-out the competition.
Regarding M$ being a monopoly, the U.S. DOJ and twenty States think so, are you going to disagree? The E.U. commission thinks so as well.
http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1998/1764.htm
http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/04/382
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/business/worldbusiness/28msoft.html
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/european-commission-probes-microsoft-aga-62413/
I really do wonder why Rob’s blog only attracts washed-up characters when it comes to defending Linux. Lpbbear’s life is probably in shambles, too. And now the only thing he’s got left is Linux. It’s that or drinking himself delirious with cheap beer.
“Can you buy computers without Wind…blather blah blah…..”
although I wonder if it is as great as they say it is why do they spend so much energy here defending it?
Can you buy computers without Windows? Yes.
Can you install other operating systems which are not Windows on your computers? Yes.
Two simple truths. Which of them do you not understand?
M$ft trolls live in an alternate universe. Their “reality” claims Microsoft is not a monopoly when quite clearly it is. Go to any retail outlet and you see a wide variety of products that are similar but manufactured by different companies. Go to the computer/software aisles and you see nothing but M$ft.
Ok, so that is obvious. Now their separate reality will say it was the “free market” that made it that way.
Riiiight. Free market eh? That explains all the manipulation, patent lawsuit threats and other paranoid bullshit M$ft has pulled and continues to pull to keep their monopoly intact.
Desktop Linux is just fine. It works for me. I wouldn’t touch Windows for my personal computer. I don’t have the time or patience to babysit an operating system that constantly shoves corporate shit in my face with its annoying attempts to capture my attention and money. Linux does not do that. It simply works as a computer operating system should. The available software is quite sufficient and suits my needs fine.
The ass clown trolls are welcome to continue using Windows. It fits them perfectly. 😉
(although I wonder if it is as great as they say it is why do they spend so much energy here defending it?)
Rob, you seem very confused. Why are you citing Eric S. Raymond? You have noticed that your post is about an article from some guy whose bullet-point list basically implies that “the bazaar” doesn’t cut it any longer, or haven’t you?
Now go check retail shelves at your local big box retailer to see if there are any competitive product on shelves besides M$’s stuff.
Rob, you’re wearing your thinking cap today? First, it’s about software, not about hardware. By claiming Windows to be a monopoly you claim that NO alternatives exist. Because THAT is what a monopoly is. Apparently you have a hard time grasping the meaning of the word exclusive. Unfortunately for you, Rob, alternatives do exist. You use one of them daily, goes by the name of Debian.
Now let’s get to your precious hardware. Your argument is wrong. Plain and simple. Hardware with Linux can be bought from nearly all computer manufacturers. Oh sure, it’s hardware targeted at business customers, but that’s besides the point. Companies don’t see a reason why they should invest in Linux on desktop computers. And you desperately want to make Microsoft responsible for that, although it’s clearly the free market’s “fault”, meaning it’s the user’s “fault”, who don’t want to buy Linux desktop computers.
If you want to buy Linux desktop computers targeted at consumers in your local Walmart or whatever there is in Canada, it would be kind of a good idea to give computer manufacturers some incentives. And repeating ad nauseam that Linux is free while a Windows license costs money is not a good incentive. The subsidized cost of a Windows license is negligible in the long run.
Clarence Moon, not having read The Cathedral and the Bazaar, wrote, “They are not doing the first thing in terms of competition and have no effective organization with which to even begin to compete.”
esr:“If the conventional, closed-source, heavily-managed style of software development is really defended only by a sort of Maginot Line of problems conducive to boredom, then it’s going to remain viable in each individual application area for only so long as nobody finds those problems really interesting and nobody else finds any way to route around them. Because the moment there is open-source competition for a `boring’ piece of software, customers are going to know that it was finally tackled by someone who chose that problem to solve because of a fascination with the problem itself—which, in software as in other kinds of creative work, is a far more effective motivator than money alone.
Having a conventional management structure solely in order to motivate, then, is probably good tactics but bad strategy; a short-term win, but in the longer term a surer loss.”
Check out Walmart.com.br and see GNU/Linux competing very well without all that baggage you would burden them. Their top-selling desktop box runs GNU/Linux. That other OS cannot cut it at twice the price.
Interesting points; not surprised seeing all the troll comments and the same ol’ tired rhetoric.
Correct on Dell, I use to purchase Dell servers with Redhat some years back, and never had any problems with them, they just ran 24/7.
One thing I like to do is deploy NAS systems on SMB networks. I tend to use both FreeNAS and NASlite built with RAID in either 1, 5, 10 arrangements.
Looking at pricing on Dell, one can see how overly priced M$ is:
http://bayimg.com/EABCKaAEN
Thorsten Rahn repeats, ad nauseam, ” Windows is not a monopoly”.
Check your dictionary:
“1. The exclusive power, or privilege of selling a commodity;
the exclusive power, right, or privilege of dealing in
some article, or of trading in some market;”
Now go check retail shelves at your local big box retailer to see if there are any competitive product on shelves besides M$’s stuff. My local Walmart has none, zero, nada x86 PC besides Wintel. That’s a “privilege of selling a commodity”. That’s a monopoly. The monopoly is certainly shaky in that one can buy */Linux smart phones and tablets but if the commodity is x86 notebooks, M$ has that exclusive privilege.
All that other stuff is a straw man meant to distract from the monopoly, camouflage, if you will. There are many millions of satisfied developers and users of FLOSS.
I’ll help you with that bullet-point list, Rob.
We are trying to compete with a near monopoly (Windows)
Write it down: Windows is not a monopoly.
Companies tend to depend on a myriad of applications to run their business, and just a couple of them not running under Linux would be enough to derail a transition to Linux desktops
Yes, businesses do depend on a myriad of applications. And because the Linux alternatives are not competitive, Linux won’t go anywhere, however slowly.
We were competing not only with other operating systems, but with a Office productivity application monopoly
Again, no monopoly. There have been plenty of Office alternatives available from the dawn of time.
We are trying to compete by supporting an unlimited range of hardware options
What kind of lame excuse is that?
We divided our efforts into multiple competing APIs (GNOME vs KDE)
Well, there’s a lot more wrong with APIs on Linux, but at least he admits that there is something wrong with it.
There was never a clear method of distributing software on Linux outside the distro specific package system.
So he’s finally admitting what everyone sane knew all along? But why does he use the past tense? This problem still persists!
Many of our underlaying systems were a bit immature
They still are.
Software patents on multimedia codecs made it hard to create a good out of the box experience for multimedia
Another lame excuse. Even today with Linux distributions that are distributing restricted codecs as part of their default install, the out-of-the-box experience with regards to multimedia sucks.
The default frameworks, like GStreamer, are outdated and peculiar, they suck at simple things like GPU decoding of video.
The default apps suck. Media players like Banshee or Rhythmbox still can’t compete with the proprietary iTunes or something highly customizable like foobar2000. FFmpeg-based video players lag far behind FFmpeg-based Windows-exclusive video players like MPC-HC.
The FLOSS GPU drivers suck.
Linux’s multimedia APIs suck.
Competing with free applications is never a tempting proposition for 3rd party vendors
More free (as in beer and as in freedom) software, more public domain software exists for Windows than for Linux. Another lame excuse.
We never reached a critical mass where porting to desktop Linux tended to make sense
And that’s how it is still today. Because FLOSS developers are egotists who like to work on projects they like, not on projects the ecosystem needs.
An impression was created that Linux users would not pay for any software
Most don’t, won’t, want, claiming that free software is good enough.
The different update cycles of the distributions made it hard to know when a new API would be available ‘everywhere’
Linux has no stable APIs (and doesn’t need them according to enlightened people like Greg Kroah-Hartman). Synchronizing distribution release cycles is like applying a band-aid to a tree which needs to be cut down.
Success in other areas drained resources away from the desktop
Can’t be. FLOSS’s human resources pool is basically unlimited.
Lies, lies, and more damned lies.
How long do you want to keep deluding yourselves, Rob?
Christian Schaller has a well-reasoned response to MdI’s comments…
No he does not. He totally misses the boat. I posted my comment there, lets see if he runs it.
He mentions in several place about “trying to compete” in the mistaken notion that the Linux fans are at all competitive. They are not doing the first thing in terms of competition and have no effective organization with which to even begin to compete.