Insightful Comment on “8”

Found in the Register’s Forums:

“Prior to seeing the article on Windows 8, I had installed and spent some time with Windows 8. It is a disaster. I will not be fighting my way past that ridiculous start screen and the capricious, arbitrary and fantastically irritating UI changes. Will they be an improvement if I shut down for a few weeks and try to train away 30 years of reflex arcs? Who cares? I have better things to do with my time.

I already use Linux for most of my servers. If Metro is the future at Microsoft, then I am going to switch to Linux for the Desktops and for the remaining servers as well.”

see the full comment at The Register The usual Total Fail.

This comment came in response to the announcement of a bunch of vulnerabilities fixed in that other OS and Adobe’s software for that other OS. On top of all that “normal” angst, the radical change in UI is unwelcome by many. M$ has clearly over-reached. They have cowed most OEMs and retailers for decades and now they are attempting to add more burdens to the end users in order to bypass the grumbling loyal OEMs, ISVs and retailers who have supported M$ for so long. The dam holding back FLOSS on retail shelves is crumbling. Breakage will be great but a better world awaits. Enlightenment has its costs but no one wants to return to the Dark Ages of IT.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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43 Responses to Insightful Comment on “8”

  1. oldman says:

    Don’t you mean you believe that it is so, pog?

    Unfotunately the case to the contrary can be more readily demonstrated.

  2. Clarence Moon wrote, “if there were such vast numbers of Linux computers being sold and used in Brazil, they would show up in the net stats and the plain fact is that they do not show up there.”

    Clearly, if all GNU/Linux clients were treated the same way that Google is treated, they would show up. Netapplications apparently accepts clients from business domains or office hours etc. to give the bias they do. Perhaps all the sites they sample are business-oriented. Who knows? Only NetApplications and they are not telling:
    “76% participate in pay per click programs to drive traffic to their sites.
    43% are commerce sites
    18% are corporate sites
    10% are content sites
    29% classify themselves as other (includes gov, org, search engine marketers etc..) “

  3. Clarence Moon says:

    They would not need to ship any OS in that case, so it’s not true.

    Oh, they would have to ship something, if only to establish a sort of plausible denial that they were fostering piracy of Windows, Mr. Pogson.

    All your handwaving aside, if there were such vast numbers of Linux computers being sold and used in Brazil, they would show up in the net stats and the plain fact is that they do not show up there. All you show are fly specs and pepper flakes in terms of usage, quarrelling with their interpretation.

  4. Clarence Moon wrote, “It would seem that the retailers have to do this in order to meet the demands of the users who want to install a pirated version of Windows on a new machine.”

    They would not need to ship any OS in that case, so it’s not true. Further, humans in Brazil are no more computer geeks than in USA so they are not going to change the OS on machines they buy.

    If you ask partners of M$ what the share is in Brazil that’s what you get. If you ask others the answer is quite different. The same sampling technique that NetApplications uses to pump up that other OS shows California heavily using FLOSS because 10K Google employees do… One should not rely on that to show M$ doing well in Brazil.

    e.g. W3counter shows 1.75% GNU/Linux in Brazil. That’s not the same as NetApplications’ USA number of 1%.

    e.g. GuidoPC in Brazil reports 5% GNU/Linux. That’s not the same as NetApplications’ 1% number either.

    NetApplications have also revised their number from ~1% to 1.43% for USA in the recent year. Either we should accept their numbers are nonsensical or GNU/Linux has grown 50% per annum for two years.

    ie. July 2012 – 1.43%
    August 2010 – 0.63%

    My analysis of regional numbers for USA from NetApplications is that that entire shift is due to 10K employees of Google showing NetApplications terrible bias to use by business which of course is the most locked-in to M$.

    Further, since the retailers in USA are locked-in to M$ it is surprising that anyone in USA uses GNU/Linux except computer geeks yet the US military, many educational organizations, governmental departments and businesses use GNU/Linux in USA, but NetApplications does not count them.

    NetApplications USA – Sunnyvale in Aug 2010 = 0.62%
    NetApplication USA – Sunnyvale in Aug 2012 = 0.67%

  5. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon
    “That is it exactly, Mr. O! There is nothing truly suitable unless you are willing to dismiss many of the things that people expect a new computer to do for them. Starting with compatibility with previous application purchases. Linux doesn’t do that and that deficiency alone accounts for their being unable to access essentially 100% of any potential market for their wares.”

    For home users I would say you are correct at this stage.

    Business usage not exactly true. Why computers inside businesses are assigned roles. The compatibility depends on what you have purchased right.

    Clarence Moon the known status is Linux is able to take over 80 percent of machines in most businesses lower cost and increase productivity.

    The key thing is the number of points that Linux is not suitable is reducing Clarence Moon.

    iLia interesting enough if you watch times on web numbers you see the web survey numbers drop off in an areas working hours. So web survey numbers count home users ahead of business users.

    Also mobile phone numbers are a real solid count. carriers know exactly how many items connect to their network and what they are. Why each 3g modem that is embedded in a phone has a unique id. Now a person does not have to do anything other than turn the device on to be counted in the Mobile phone counting game.

    Most linux on mobile phone is now Android. Prior to Android there were 12 different Linux OS’s on mobile phones that were bsd user-spaces and basically not related to the GNU/Desktop in anyway.

    iLia our numbers on how much Linux/Windows/Mac desktop out there are completely bogus. How do you uniquely count a Linux a Windows or a Mac machine on the Internet. You cannot.

  6. Clarence Moon says:

    Outside North America retailers are not shy to sell GNU/Linux on PCs.

    It would seem that the retailers have to do this in order to meet the demands of the users who want to install a pirated version of Windows on a new machine. If you look at the usage statistics for Brazil, for example, you can easily see that Windows and Linux have use percentages the same as in the USA.

  7. iLia says:

    Note that years ago M$ saw 20% of organizations switching to GNU/Linux.

    Have you eaten too much Magic Corn? Read this file yourself and pay attention to “Linux of PC installed base”, it is too often below 1%. And why there are so many arrows pointing down? Maybe too much organizations are migrating from Linux?

  8. iLia repeats the lie of tiny GNU/Linux share, “Windows Phone market share is in two times bigger than Linux desktop market share”

    With many governments actively promoting GNU/Linux and large migrations no longer newsworthy it happens so often, GNU/Linux has long ago left 1% share. Even M$ knows that. Note that years ago M$ saw 20% of organizations switching to GNU/Linux. Outside North America retailers are not shy to sell GNU/Linux on PCs.

  9. iLia says:

    The word used is stale and not stable

    So it is. I just overlooked it.

  10. JR says:

    @ iLia
    It appears that English is not your first language.

    But please explain this from your previous comment.

    Linux is a clone of a 1970′s product, UNIX, and is itself much more stale than anything that Microsoft has to offer.

    Stable? Maybe the word stale will be more appropriate here?

    The word used is stale and not stable

  11. iLia says:

    MS still has the legacy market

    Because GNU/Linux is growing and advancing and the awareness of that is becoming more apparent.

    Windows Phone jumps 277% in a year to take 3.2% of smartphone market share

    Ups, now Windows Phone market share is in two times bigger than Linux desktop market share, and it is growing (not Linux market share, Windows Phone market share) 🙂

    If Metro is the future at Microsoft, then I am going to switch to Linux for the Desktops and for the remaining servers as well.

    Windows 8 is a giant step backwards

    And what can Linux can give you? Unity? KDE? Gnome? Many people wasn’t happy about them. Mate? LXDE? Xface?

    And why migrate? Millions of people still use Windows XP? Actually much-much-much more people use this 10 years old operation system than brand new Linux distributions.

    Linux is a clone of a 1970′s product, UNIX, and is itself much more stale than anything that Microsoft has to offer.

    Stable? Maybe the word Stale will be more appropriate here?

  12. JR says:

    @ Clarence Moon

    You never miss a chance do you …….

    Linux is a clone of a 1970′s product, UNIX, and is itself much more stale than anything that Microsoft has to offer.

    Care to elaborate on your statement?

  13. Clarence Moon says:

    Your babbling has become tiresome beyond any hope of redemption, Mr. O. It would help us all if you just posted links to the things that you find in your Google searches and quit trying to phrase them in your faux-Australian styled pidgin English language. At least we would have some idea as to what you were on about.

    as long as there is another suitable OS…

    That is it exactly, Mr. O! There is nothing truly suitable unless you are willing to dismiss many of the things that people expect a new computer to do for them. Starting with compatibility with previous application purchases. Linux doesn’t do that and that deficiency alone accounts for their being unable to access essentially 100% of any potential market for their wares.

    There are more reasons, of course, that Linux is not likely to be found suitable, but how many do you really need? One is usually sufficient.

  14. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon “You apparently are not just numb but apparently stupid, too. When Mr. Pogson talks about “major OEMs” making money, how can you come up with Red Hat and SUSE? Don’t you bother to read the posts?”

    Do you think machines shipping with Redhat and SUSE on them don’t pay back to OEM’s.

    Do OEM’s make any profit putting windows on the machine. Answer is really no. They place a mark up on the hardware price.

    OEM’s make no money from the OS on the machine other than the fact it helped them get the machine out door.

    Clarence Moon the reality is OEM are that cut throat there is no OS margin for them.

    You notice the Windows versions can be sold for less. This is because OEM’s cannot place as much mark up on Windows versions.

    Reality MS is a bill OEM’s are having to pay that cut into there possible profit margins. Clarence Moon. OEM’s have no reason to give MS any future loyalty as long as there is another suitable OS to get their product out door.

  15. Clarence Moon says:

    About time you step back and start looking at the source code of android before you comment any more about it.

    Just a bunch of ho-hum, don’t care stuff that has no effect on commerce, Mr. O. How numb can you be? There is nothing in Linux to use as a selling point for a product. Nothing at all.

    Redhat and SUSE…

    You apparently are not just numb but apparently stupid, too. When Mr. Pogson talks about “major OEMs” making money, how can you come up with Red Hat and SUSE? Don’t you bother to read the posts?

  16. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon “Android contains some bits and bytes from the Linux “kernel”, but who really cares?”

    Really you need to visit the android source code some time. https://android.googlesource.com/

    Lot more than the kernel from a normal GNU/Linux desktop is hiding inside Android. Note all the external stuff. Lot of those parts are common between all distributions.

    The overlap is larger than the kernel.

    Clarence Moon
    “There is nothing very magnificent about this code in this day and age and Android’s essence lies in the code produced by Google and that is not even FLOSS in the copyleft license sense.”

    Really look closer some of the exposed API/ABI to davik is LGPL. So Android essence is not 100 percent copyleft free. Interesting enough these are latter extensions to the android API/ABI. So Android is slowly becoming more copy-left license tolerant.

    Clarence Moon making statements without the homework to back yourself here. About time you step back and start looking at the source code of android before you comment any more about it.

    When android started phone makers would not touch even LGPL stuff in user space anywhere. Android has broken the wall.

    Clarence Moon
    “Not at all true and certainly not in evidence, Mr. Pogson. You wish it were so, but that is all.”

    Redhat and SUSE(sub department of Novell) are doing very well selling GNU/Linux. Sorry there is a long list of companies doing good enough from FOSS to justify keeping on doing it.

    Claiming no income the elephant in the room is the 1+ billion dollar a year turn over company called Redhat. Then there are a lot of other mixed ones as well.

  17. Clarence Moon says:

    GNU/Linux and Android/Linux are both growing rapidly.

    You keep trying to characterize Linux as “Gnu/Linux” and Android as “Android/Linux”. As hard as you work to get some of the glory of the one to rub off on the other, it only looks lame. The Gnu stuff is just stone-age utilities that even the Linux product developers rarely use in favor of more modern support applications. Ubuntu is popular to the extent that it has done away with most of these old-timers.

    Android contains some bits and bytes from the Linux “kernel”, but who really cares? There is nothing very magnificent about this code in this day and age and Android’s essence lies in the code produced by Google and that is not even FLOSS in the copyleft license sense.

    they make a lot of money selling GNU/Linux

    Not at all true and certainly not in evidence, Mr. Pogson. You wish it were so, but that is all.

  18. oiaohm says:

    Phenom wrote, “They won’t, because Linux can’t run MS Office, Exchage, and Sharepoint.”

    This is the problem those are not problems. Exchange and Sharepoint is mostly not a issue in the near future.

    Exchange is taken out by openchange to do MAPI and other tech using activesync. This a protocol compatible replacement. So end user running a phone or outlook cannot see the fact business is not using Exchange.

    Alfresco does the same to Sharepoint again right down to protocol.

    Phenom the missing piece of the jigsaw to kick windows out the server room for good is Active Directory this is Samba 4.

    So we are almost to the point that Windows is Irrelevant. in the server room.

    OpenOffice/LibreOffice has lacked linking to Sharepoint or Alfresco out box. This will change by end of year.

    We are talking a perfect storm problem Phenom.

    Phenom like serous-ally open-change you can connect as many clients as you like no cost difference.

    http://www.alfresco.com/products/compare Yes Alfresco is flat pricing for on-site deployment if you go for the commercially supported version. It does work out cheaper than sharepoint.

    Oldman will say business will not risk it. Reality if you competitor can operate cheaper than you doing the same things you lose.

    Clarence Moon please stop thinking of the desktop and business server markets as split.

    The one section of the server market Linux does not dominate is the one section the desktop depends on.

    This is what you see as more Linux servers get used less Windows servers get used then the number of Linux desktops in the business grow.

  19. Phenom says:

    Pogson, since when do you consider yourself “a business” or “an organization”?!?

  20. Phenom wrote, “They won’t, because Linux can’t run MS Office, Exchage, and Sharepoint.”

    Irrelevant. Most users of PCs and smart thingies don’t run those things. I have used IT for decades and never used Exchange or Sharepoint. I don’t know anyone who has.

  21. Clarence Moon, confusing a whole bunch of things wrote, “Claiming any growth in “leaps and bounds” is just an overly optimistic view of things, one of which is that Android is the same as the Linux you have been touting for so long.”

    GNU/Linux and Android/Linux are both growing rapidly. They both have OEMs and retailers selling lots of units and at an increasing rate. All the major OEMs ship millions of GNU/Linux desktops and notebooks these days even though they don’t advertise that. They are all “partners” of M$ and sworn to promote M$’s brand, but they make a lot of money selling GNU/Linux. I don’t confuse GNU/Linux and Linux. Linux is just a small part of the GNU/Linux ecosystem and Linux is not an OS just a kernel.

    e.g.

  22. Dell is selling Ubuntu GNU/Linux on PCs in thousands of retail outlets in China and India.
  23. Lenovo made a deal to sell hundreds of thousands of GNU/Linux PCs in India.
  24. In Brazil, homegrown OEMs are competing with foreigners thanks to huge import duties and GNU/Linux licensing.