The Cost of Lock-in Prevents Big Business Adopting “7”

He who lives by the sword dies by it… M$ locked big business into using IE6 long ago and now finds the lock-in is so powerful it prevents big business from using “7”… Chuckle.

“web browser specialist Browsium, which said 80 per cent of big companies – those with 10,000 or more PCs – are still clinging to Windows XP even though support for it is due to end in two years. But IT department bosses fear the cost, difficulty and disruption of moving business-critical apps from Microsoft’s Internet Explorer 6 and 7, which are off-limits on Windows 7.”

see Big biz 'struggling' to dump Windows XP • The Register.

There are lessons to be learned from this. Why not rewrite those web applications in FLOSS and use FLOSS clients to prevent a repetition? I recommend Debian GNU/Linux on clients and servers because it works for you, not M$.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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11 Responses to The Cost of Lock-in Prevents Big Business Adopting “7”

  1. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig
    “Siemens’ (internal) web applications, which all run perfectly fine with IE9. A handful don’t, but run perfectly fine with IE9′s compatibility mode.”
    That is only 1 case. The problem here its not the common case.

    There are a lot more companies with what I listed.

    Heck a few companies will have website that work perfectly on IE9 or will not matter because there internal web browser was netscape/mozilla.

    The reality is there are a lot of companies locked in over Internet Explorer issues.

    Chris Weig
    “IE compatility mode don’t run some sites.”
    There are a few banks in my region were there website is IE6 with active x control. Not that I would trust my money there one bit.

    This is the problem IE6 compatibility problems don’t just stop at your internal sites either.

    “Windows 7 migration by early 2013” So until this is done don’t be so smart. There may be a few extra land mines you cannot fix other than virtual instances of Windows until the other party gets around to fix it.

    Yes you might have all the internal sorted. But that not the only thing blocking removal.

    Chris Weig did you remember to check the remote viewing of the security systems. Some of those can require IE6 and need to be replaced of course.

    There are a lot of little niggles. I have done a few of the migrations Chris Weig first one you get your hopes up that you have it covered. A few down the track as you had the odd thing here or there bite you you take it with more respect.

  2. Chris Weig says:

    IE compatility mode don’t run some sites. Things that kill you are old active X controls. Java and .net addons that run browser side that have bad browser detection and see straight through IE compatibility mode

    Not only can’t you write, you also can’t read, Mr. oiaohm. I was talking about Siemens’ (internal) web applications, which all run perfectly fine with IE9. A handful don’t, but run perfectly fine with IE9’s compatibility mode.

  3. oiaohm says:

    Ted
    “Even Google?

    Their only mission-critical “app” – Search – is closed source, and likely to remain that way.”
    To be correct closed source to everyone bar Google staff.

    Kevin Lynch I kinda agree with. Business need FOSS or like google where they have the source code for mission critical stuff even if on one else does. So bad things don’t happen to the company.

    Chris Weig
    “For a handful of applications IE’s compatibility mode was needed.”
    IE compatility mode don’t run some sites. Things that kill you are old active X controls. Java and .net addons that run browser side that have bad browser detection and see straight through IE compatibility mode.

    Chris Weig
    “It would’ve to be a brain-dead company who allowed itself to get ‘locked-in’ by IE6.”

    The problem here is by the time they wake up to the mistake it can be a big problem to get out of.

    Chris Weig basically yes the ones that go well go fairly easy. The ones that go wrong is where the maker of the software is no longer in existance and the company of the program does not have the source code to it and lot of there operational data is trapped inside the program. I have seen this with POS solutions and other things. Yes it a true O crud I hate who ever ordered this. Normally cause taking the lowest quote to write the software and not including clause source code must be provided with rights to modify.

    With future migrations prevention of issues is better than trying to cure them. Cure is more expensive than prevention. Prevention is having the source code so you can employ coders if you have to directly to fix the issues. It also makes it simpler to migrate to other products if the current maker goes under.

    Having the source code does not mean fully open source. You can have a source code licence that is a NDA you can have the source code but you cannot give it to any other company unless we go bust. This still is protection against migration problems.

    Really building sites for IE that is a closed source browser your company cannot control as your only supported browser is quite stupid.

    The companies are basically in the hole now due to doing a set of stupid things that break all common sense. Common sense is not common. Hopefully some will grow some Common sense and be more demanding of source code.

  4. Ted wrote, “Even Google?

    Their only mission-critical “app” – Search – is closed source, and likely to remain that way.”

    While the particular algorithms and configuration may be secret, a lot of Google’s stuff is based on GNU/Linux with Hadoop-like stuff that Google did share.

  5. Ted says:

    “Personally I think any business using closed source anything for a mission critical application are out of the minds and deserve all they get.”

    Even Google?

    Their only mission-critical “app” – Search – is closed source, and likely to remain that way.

  6. Kevin Lynch says:

    Personally I think any business using closed source anything for a mission critical application are out of the minds and deserve all they get.

  7. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon
    “A stupid statement that shows you haven’t a clue as to what the problem might actually be, Mr. O! Why am I not surprised?”

    Not a stupid statement. Lot of companies paid outside companies to make there web applications. Those that did it in Java, .net, win32(yes scary) as outside companies a lot never handed over the source code.

    I have had a few projects remaking the internal websites even reversing out the source code.

    Reality some of this is the java and .net bytecodes. Even if you do disassemble them you still don’t get the comments or anything else to help you fix its problem.

    Old internal business asp is simpler to work with asp to php conversion program and update the code. Total time is way less than hitting java or .net bytecode.

    Yes businesses did not take enough care getting the source code of their custom applications as they should of course now they are paying the price.

    Basically head in sand Clarence Moon who has no real clue of anything. So has to accuse me of using Google to try it hide is incompetence.

    Of course people like Clarence Moon don’t want to admit that Java and .Net has been part of the problem here.

    Yes java and .net also have commercial addons to make reversing harder.

  8. Chris Weig says:

    He who lives by the sword dies by it… M$ locked big business into using IE6 long ago and now finds the lock-in is so powerful it prevents big business from using “7″… Chuckle.

    Complete BS.

    It would’ve to be a brain-dead company who allowed itself to get ‘locked-in’ by IE6.

    Siemens — a very small company (chuckle!) — will have completed its Windows 7 migration by early 2013. And with regards to Germany I can say with certainty that we didn’t have problems with any of our web applications. For a handful of applications IE’s compatibility mode was needed. But certainly no snake-oil like Browsium’s ludicrous plug-in.

    BTW, we helped migrate a ‘small’ (less than 450 employees) bank in Munich (Münchner Hypothekenbank) to Windows 7 in 2009. A small pilot project was rolled out immediately after the final version of Windows 7 was available to us. The migration was then basically completed by November 2009, with a few computers being only migrated in January 2010, as they needed software which didn’t support Windows 7 before that date. All in all the migration was rather boring, as pretty much everything just worked.

    Really, Mr. Pogson, you should visit Siemens in Manitoba. Perhaps they can tell you something about how to migrate properly to a new Windows version. You don’t seem to know anything about it.

  9. Clarence Moon says:

    No simple access to what the web sites source code is to fix the migration problems.

    A stupid statement that shows you haven’t a clue as to what the problem might actually be, Mr. O! Why am I not surprised?

    Google some more.

  10. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon .Net and Java in fact can be the cause of the problems. No simple access to what the web sites source code is to fix the migration problems.

  11. Clarence Moon says:

    .Net is the answer, of course. The premise here is suspect as well, given the source of the article:

    The Browsium team, which sells a tool to run IE6-only apps on Windows 7, quibbled with Reller’s numbers.

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