DisUnity

Some folks need focus. That has never been my problem. I often concentrate so tightly I ignore impending disasters all around… The claim is being made that Ubuntu’s Unity GUI forces people to focus and become more efficient. Nonsense… I know exactly what I am doing and if a single application won’t do everything I need, I do need to switch from one to another. That’s not inefficiency. That’s getting the job done.

Example: I browse a lot for my blog. When I find a likely story, I am using the browser most likely. I start the post from a different tab of the browser and from time to time, I need to enter other data. If it does not exist, I have to create data, say a graph or table. There are better tools for that, like the office suite, LibreOffice. I may also take a screenshot, download files, do a calculation, run a process on another computer… I pick the tools I think are best for those tasks and I want to quickly change tasks as a part of the work I do. It’s not multi-tasking so much as doing complex tasks and the browser is not the tool I choose to use for everything. I doubt there is a browser that would work exactly the way I want to do the job. I could create some web applications to do some tasks, but it’s just better to use familiar tools sometimes. I should not have to change how I work to suit Canonical’s vision. I could restrict myself to the browser but that would eliminate a lot of features relevant to the tasks at hand.

“Unity is making the desktop seriously efficient again by making the user focus on a single task”

see DistroWatch News.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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53 Responses to DisUnity

  1. Conzo says:

    Linux advocacy: where facepalms go when they die …

  2. kozmcrae says:

    Robert Pogson wrote:

    “He should get the Nobel Peace Prize for software (if there were one).”

    Linus Torvalds should get the Nobel prize for Economics. His Linux project has clearly boosted the World’s economy. And he’s done more good than any of the jokers who put together those convoluted equations that caused the major banks to fail and brought major economies to their knees.

  3. Ted says:

    “There’s no evidence of that.”

    Barry Humphries once said “If you have to explain satire to someone, you might as well give up.”

  4. Ted wrote, “In fact, never use Linux, because Linus is evil.”

    There’s no evidence of that. Linus is very pragmatic to say the least. He understands sharing software. He understands cooperation. He should get the Nobel Peace Prize for software (if there were one). Really, a guy who has contributed so much to humanity should be afforded all kinds of human faults but he has none that I know of save using the “f-word”. He must have the patience of Job to herd Linux cats as he does.

  5. Ted says:

    “Don’t you think it’s about quitting time on this thread Ted. I mean, you can’t lose anymore than you’ve lost already.”

    And then you woke up.

    You know this is another sign of a Linux troll? Claiming victory where none exists?

  6. Ted says:

    ““the Linux-based system at NASDAQ failed.”

    [This fact is undeniable, by the way. System failed. System was Linux-based.]

    It wasn’t anything to do with GNU/Linux that caused the failure. ”

    Spin it all you like. What I wrote was true.

    To apply your OWN standard in these situations;
    Who cares? It was Linux-based, it failed, it was Linux’s fault. So you should never use Linux for desktops,laptops phones or tablets. In fact, never use Linux, because Linus is evil.

    I have to say that I do not care that much about LSE’s failure, or that of NASDAQ. What I do mind is the LSE’s failure being used as a stick to beat Microsoft with, in cases where it’s not relevant.

    “Trolls don’t ever intend to “win”.”

    If I _was_ a “troll”, I’d pretend to be on the other side. Windows fanboys don’t threaten to kill people, or try to get them fired.

    “The thing that really annoys me about trolls is that many of them clearly know better but deliberately take a negative stance on nearly everything. It is tedious and a nuisance to those who also know better but it is a killer for newbies who may visit and not know the truth. To someone not skilled/familiar with Microsoft or Windows KozMcrae’s “arguments” may seem convincing and reasonable. That’s why KozMcrae and some others never tire of repeating lies. They benefit per copied lie, not per truth. They could be replaced by a tight loop of code.”

  7. kozmcrae wrote, “Don’t you think it’s about quitting time on this thread Ted. I mean, you can’t lose anymore than you’ve lost already.”

    Trolls don’t ever intend to “win”. They just waste people’s time while making the forum an unpleasant place. Trolls are an infectious agent, not sentient beings willing to live and let live. The matter under discussion is irrelevant. The object is not to win the argument but to render the site uninhabitable. They seek M$’s technological evangelism, global victory, and the particular point is of no import. I’d bet Ted would celebrate if I died or chucked the site. He would not be the least bit saddened if I cut him off. He’d just go somewhere else.

    The thing that really annoys me about trolls is that many of them clearly know better but deliberately take a negative stance on nearly everything. It is tedious and a nuisance to those who also know better but it is a killer for newbies who may visit and not know the truth. To someone not skilled/familiar with GNU/Linux or FLOSS Ted’s “arguments” may seem convincing and reasonable. That’s why Ted and some others never tire of repeating lies. They benefit per copied lie, not per truth. They could be replaced by a tight loop of code.

  8. kozmcrae says:

    Thanks for settling that NASDAQ nonsense Robert.

    Don’t you think it’s about quitting time on this thread Ted. I mean, you can’t lose anymore than you’ve lost already.

  9. Ted wrote, “the Linux-based system at NASDAQ failed.”

    It wasn’t anything to do with GNU/Linux that caused the failure. The fools operating the system had the application misconfigured.

    “in the minutes before an IPO launch, IPO Cross will run an auction in which traders can put in bids, and then calculate an opening price using these auction bids. The opening price would then be fed to the Nasdaq tape. After the opening price is calculated and just before it prints its opening price to the tape, IPO Cross checks to see if any additional orders have been placed since it started its calculation. In Facebook’s case, additional orders kept coming in, which caused IPO Cross to recalculate the price multiple times, resulting in the delay past the 11 a.m. scheduled opening.”

    Essentially they created a tight loop of data through the system, creating their own denial of service attack. The problem had a trivial solution once it was understood. They just had to cut off new data in the opening price calculation after the opening of the market. Any operating system would have been sagging under such an attack.

  10. Ted says:

    “You’ve got this NASDAQ IPO “failure” you keep dragging out.”

    ‘Keep dragging out’? In two posts in the same thread? Is it too much of an inconvenient truth for you? Must I not mention it again, lest I be decried as “Cult of Microsoft”, “shill” and “troll”? Not that you’re predictable or anything. Or will I just get “twit”? I often think the same of you, only a few vowels earlier…

    Why do you put failure in quotes like it didn’t really happen, or it wasn’t really a failure? Here’s a hint; the Linux-based system at NASDAQ failed.

    “So what if it was a Linux failure.”

    So what?? You don’t even _see_ the double-standards anymore, do you?

    It’s typical FOSS-zealot behaviour; a failure involving Windows must always be dragged out at every opportunity to beat Microsoft with. A failure involving Linux is “So what?” and must be swept under the carpet as quickly and quietly as possible.

  11. kozmcrae says:

    Ted attempts to rewrite history:

    “Which the Linux brigade were trumpeting as a failure for Microsoft, even though the failure was in the TradElect software, not in Windows.”

    No dear Ted, it was a failure of Windows. It couldn’t hack the volume of transactions.

    ““Bloat” means something different depending on what’s being discussed.”

    Microsoft often changes the meaning of words. Are you trying to change the meaning of ‘bloat’? To Linus 15 millions LOC is bloat. So I’d guess 50 millions LOC is bloat to him too.

    Ted, Windows, any recent version, is bloated by any measure. That’s just the way it is. Linux, compared to Windows isn’t bloated but, depending on who you’re talking to, Linux is bloated. The difference with Linux is that you can strip it down like Robert said and use only the components and drivers you need. It’s much more flexible than Windows. These are not opinions, they are facts.

    You’ve got this NASDAQ IPO “failure” you keep dragging out. So what if it was a Linux failure. Most stock trading failures will be associated with Linux simply because Linux is the choice of most of the major trading houses. There’s a good reason for that. It’s got a service record that Windows can’t even approach. That’s also not an opinion but a fact.

  12. Ted says:

    “I’m having fun refuting your garbage. I’m ready for some more. How about you?”

    Changing the meaning of words is a pastime for you isn’t it?

    “Bloat” means something different depending on what’s being discussed.

    And now “refute” means you get shown up as a childish blowhard who makes stuff up as he goes along, provides no actual facts, applies double standards, and descends to name calling instead of debate.

    “No, like the LSE.”

    Which the Linux brigade were trumpeting as a failure for Microsoft, even though the failure was in the TradElect software, not in Windows.

    “What a dipstick you are Ted. You point to a troubled IPO that may have had something to do with the fact that NASDAQ runs on Linux.”

    It was “technical problems” and NASDAQ runs on Linux. Why is it so hard for you to have YOUR OWN STANDARDS applied to Linux? Double standards are endemic with Linux and its supporters! LSE ran on Windows and had a failure, it must be Windows’ fault! NASDAQ runs on Linux, it simply can’t be a Linux problem.

    And more names. Why not just wave a white flag?

    “It’s not 1995 anymore.”

    More’s the pity for you. Linux had a chance on the desktop then.

  13. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “You mean like this one, that wne tits-up on a high-profile IPO?”

    No, like the LSE.

    What a dipstick you are Ted. You point to a troubled IPO that may have had something to do with the fact that NASDAQ runs on Linux. Then you opine that Linux is the choice to run on super computers because of cost.

    Windows is holding on to the desktop, barely. Everything else is being taken over by Linux. Live with it. It’s not 1995 anymore.

    I’m having fun refuting your garbage. I’m ready for some more. How about you?

  14. Ted says:

    “You basically admitted that Linux does the same amount of work with far less code. ”

    I did nothing of the sort. And you know it.

    “Windows is still not in the same league as Linux (stock exchanges, super computers and ultra large private OS server farms just to name a few).”

    Stock Exchanges? You mean like this one, that wne tits-up on a high-profile IPO?

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/nasdaq-plans-40-mln-facebook-ipo-compensation-173920408–finance.html

    Super-computers? So what? They run Linux to avoid paying swingeing licensing fees for real UNIXes or Windows, and it’s not like they run Ubuntu, is it?

    “ultra large private OS server farms”

    Such as?

    Desktop applications. SMB (that’s Small/Medium Business, not Server Message Block) servers. Ease of use. Backwards compatibility.

    Linux isn’t even in the same SPORT as Windows at these.

  15. oldman says:

    “Windows is still not in the same league as Linux (stock exchanges, super computers and ultra large private OS server farms just to name a few)”

    But this is and has always be

  16. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “And I’ve never said Windows WASN’T bloated.”

    You never said it was.

    “Disk space is cheap these days.”

    It’s not disk space that’s the problem. It’s how much code you can squeeze through the CPU at any given moment. You basically admitted that Linux does the same amount of work with far less code. Windows at 40 million plus LOC versus Linux at 15 million minus LOC (drivers, remember?). It’s a massacre. Maybe we need to add in one of the desktops like KDE (the largest of the Linux desktops) to make a more equal comparison. That would add 6 million LOC.

    Windows is still not in the same league as Linux (stock exchanges, super computers and ultra large private OS server farms just to name a few).

    Some day, when the dust settles on all this, it would be revealing if some university department did an analysis of Microsoft’s code to find out why it was so hopelessly bloated.

  17. Ted wrote, “Disk space is cheap these days.”

    True, but bloat has many other implications:

    • slowness,
    • vulnerabilities,
    • cost to create,
    • cost to maintain, and
    • who knows what it’s doing if it’s doing more than necessary?
  18. Ted says:

    Where I come from, it means “idiot”, and the definition in Webster’s in not largely known or used.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/twit

  19. Ted says:

    “So you can dump on Linux for being bloated but what about Windows? It must be monumental by now. ”

    Pointing at Microsoft’s flaws do not make Linux’s go away. And I’ve never said Windows WASN’T bloated.

    This is quite pointless to continue; you’ll always assume that any line of code from Redmond is pointless and useless, because you’re a zealot, and “bloat” is a stick to beat Microsoft with.

    And also because at the end of the day; frankly I DON’T CARE if either, neither or both are “bloated” and I don’t think many other people do either. Disk space is cheap these days.

  20. Ted, the twit, wrote, “Twit?? Are you descending to that now? Look up what I said to Koz about name-calling, above.”

    “To vex by bringing to notice, or reminding of, a fault, defect, misfortune, or the like; to revile; to reproach; to upbraid; to taunt; as, he twitted his friend of falsehood. [1913 Webster]”

  21. Ted says:

    NT 5.0 = Windows 2000 was still supported until 2010, twit.

    Support is not relevant here. Or would you like me to claim that Ubuntu 10.10 is the latest version? It’s still supported, isn’t it? Or maybe not.

    You said;

    “Cutler left NT back in 2006, when NT was at 5.0. It’s now at 6.1.”

    Dave Cutler did leave the NT team in 2006, right so far! He last worked on Windows Server 2003 x64 while there, which was released in 2003, surprisingly enough. And is version NT 5.2.

    So Windows NT was at NT5.2 in 2006 NOT NT5.0

    And if you claim to only be talking about consumer versions of Windows, Windows XP was released in 2001, which was NT5.1.

    Twit?? Are you descending to that now? Look up what I said to Koz about name-calling, above.

  22. kozmcrae wrote, “Linus said Linux was bloated”.

    Chuckle. I imagine the guy working at the cookie factory watching the machines fill boxes all day long might imagine that there are a lot of cookies in the world. Imagine how much code Linus has merged in his career…

    Really, one can delete the drivers from GNU/Linux that are not being used and it makes quite a dent:
    “cd /lib/modules/3.3.4/
    du -c …
    1574768 total
    ls -l /boot/vmlinuz-3.3.4
    -rw-r–r– 1 root root 2767600 Apr 28 09:40 /boot/vmlinuz-3.3.4”

    So, the drivers are something less than half the code as ELF is uncrompressed and vmlinuz is compressed. I would not call a few megabytes bloat.

  23. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “15 million LOC, of which a huge chunk is drivers no-one will ever use?”

    Ted didn’t write:

    How many lines of code are in the current version of Windows (because no one outside of Microsoft knows).

    So you can dump on Linux for being bloated but what about Windows? It must be monumental by now. And as for drivers being a huge chunk of the kernel code? Doesn’t that make what’s left rather lean? You just said, Linux does more with less. A lot less.

    Yes, I know Linus said Linux was bloated. I wonder where you read that before: http://mrpogson.com/2012/07/02/disunity/#comment-91235.

  24. NT 5.0 = Windows 2000 was still supported until 2010, twit.

  25. Ted says:

    “It certainly does not apply to GNU/Linux.”

    15 million LOC, of which a huge chunk is drivers no-one will ever use? Bloat by anyone’s definition. And also its own creator’s opinion. Are you really going to argue with LINUS over this?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/22/linus_torvalds_linux_bloated_huge/

    May be an old article, but the kernel certainly isn’t getting any smaller.

    “I can set up a nifty server with 300MB of code. I can set up a nifty desktop with 1gB of code.”

    What do you have to remove to do so?

    And frankly, who the hell cares in this age of 1 terabyte hard drives? One digital movie in HD or the average downloaded music collections dwarfs the OS install, and people don’t even blink at those.

  26. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “What does “bloat” mean again?”

    It means that Ted does not know what the lines of code are for current version of Windows (I think 50 Million LOC was being bounced around for Vista). But, we all have a clue why that might be.

    So the double standard is that Linux is open and Windows is not.

  27. Ted says:

    “Cutler left NT back in 2006, when NT was at 5.0. It’s now at 6.1.”

    Windows Server 2003 is Windows NT 5.2, not 5.0

    Is lack of fact-checking and general ignorance contagious around here?

    “If as reported, he’s on XBOX, that sounds like a step down from cutting-edge (guffaw) technology to toys.”

    Toys? Video gaming is the biggest entertainment market in the world, and it’s still growing. Films that do a billion in box-office over their life are lauded. There are games that do the same in sales in a matter of weeks.

    And I would guess that Cutler is in such a position with Microsoft that he can pretty much do what he likes.

  28. Ted wrote, “What does “bloat” mean again?”

    It certainly does not apply to GNU/Linux. I can set up a nifty server with 300MB of code. I can set up a nifty desktop with 1gB of code. That other OS needs 4gB+ for XP… That’s bloat.

  29. “7” is current “NT” stuff. Cutler left NT back in 2006, when NT was at 5.0. It’s now at 6.1.

    If as reported, he’s on XBOX, that sounds like a step down from cutting-edge (guffaw) technology to toys. The guy’s 70, for pity’s sake. What kid would buy an XBOX designed by an old fogy older than I am?

  30. Ted wrote, “looking ignorant and ill-informed about Azure”.

    I could care less about Azure. M$ does not have a monopoly in the cloud and likely never will have one. I don’t want to waste my energy learning about products few use. The fire is on the desktop where M$ does have a monopoly in most places and there are a billion PCs needing liberating.

  31. Ted says:

    “Dave_Cutler left NT”

    That fact is not in dispute. Koz claimed Dave Cutler left Microsoft early on and MS “old-timers” took over on NT. This is blatantly false.

    ” and now works on Azure, whatever that is…”

    Two minutes on Google would have saved you from;

    a) having to make that snarky comment
    b) looking ignorant and ill-informed about Azure
    c) being wrong again – Cutler now works on the XBox.

  32. Ted says:

    Linux and all those drivers built-in that you NEVER EVER NEED makes the Linux kernel ALONE (which you say is not bloated) a third of the LOC of a COMPLETE OPERATING SYSTEM.

    What does “bloat” mean again? Does it mean something different on your planet?

  33. kozmcrae says:

    Good work Ted, so far, on nailing down those lines of code. So let’s see. Linux with the drivers is now at 15 million lines of code. Where did you say Windows is currently at? I mean, let’s kill the double standard right here and now.

  34. oldman says:

    Mr. K thoughts has never been so relevant as he has in is most recent post.

  35. oldman says:

    “Dave_Cutler left NT and now works on Azure, whatever that is…”

    IN January 2012, not “early on”

  36. kozmcrae says:

    .

  37. Dave_Cutler left NT and now works on Azure, whatever that is…

  38. Ted says:

    “Damn right. Windows is bloated at 40 million lines of code (Vista). Linux is bloated at 13 million (plus) lines of code. Windows is considered bloated by people outside of Microsoft, Linux is considered bloated by its creator.”

    Another bloody double-standard! Why can’t you ever compare apples to apples? The Linux kernel ALONE is 15 million LOC (10 seconds on Wikipedia to find that out. You didn’t bother, it seems). The WHOLE of Windows XP (NOT Vista – another fact you didn’t check!) is estimated to be around 40 million.

    “My usual fact checking? How the Hell would you know.”

    Yes. It is your usual level of fact-checking. That is you either simply make stuff up or you go off half-cocked! See above for a start. And just like you claimed Dave Cutler left Microsoft early in the development of NT. Here’s a hint – he still works at Microsoft.

    “That’s what you’d called an admission of error.”

    You didn’t know that Theodore T’so was a Linux kernel developer, he said something critical about Linux, and you shot your mouth off. Your “admission of error” is more like an attempt to extract your foot from your gullet before you start digesting your toes.

    “But you, being a member of the Cult of Microsoft, wouldn’t know about such things.”

    Name-calling again. The sign that you’ve lost the argument.

  39. oiaohm says:

    Phenom Theodore T rarely reviews windows or other OS’s. So you could say he is bias.

    There are very few true neutral compares to platform.

  40. Phenom says:

    Suddenly Theodore T became an ignorant and M$ shill. Everything is possible in Pogland and Loonland.

  41. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “The double-standards that get applied when it’s Windows vs. Linux again.”

    Damn right. Windows is bloated at 40 million lines of code (Vista). Linux is bloated at 13 million (plus) lines of code. Windows is considered bloated by people outside of Microsoft, Linux is considered bloated by its creator.

    My usual fact checking? How the Hell would you know. That’s what you’d called an admission of error. But you, being a member of the Cult of Microsoft, wouldn’t know about such things.

    Ed Bott knows what he’s talking about. No doubt he does but there is also no doubt he is a Microsoft booster through and through. If you are looking for factual and relevant news about GNU/Linux, you wouldn’t read his crap.

  42. oiaohm says:

    Ted Sux without context is important.

    What is classed secure is also different between OS’s as well.

    Just because Theodore T’so says something suxs does not mean if you look at other OS’s closely you will not see the same problem. Ted

    Its suxs because Linux is suffering from it.

    Every year different people do compare reviews in the Linux world.

    Theodore T’so normally does do a walk around the major windows managers pointing out what needs work. Some of it is known before he does. Like KDE cutting down on dependencies.

    Ted proper tech compares are rare.

  43. Ted says:

    “And Linus say Linux is bloated. But bloated to Linus is not the same bloated when you’re talking about Windows.”

    The double-standards that get applied when it’s Windows vs. Linux again.

    “I was mistaking Theodore T’so for a Ziff Davis blogger similar in character to Ed Bott.”

    Your usual talent for fact-checking.

    Unlike you, Ed Bott knows what he’s talking about.

  44. kozmcrae says:

    Ted wrote:

    “If he says Linux sucks; pay attention.”

    And Linus say Linux is bloated. But bloated to Linus is not the same bloated when you’re talking about Windows.

    I was mistaking Theodore T’so for a Ziff Davis blogger similar in character to Ed Bott.

  45. Ted says:

    @Koz

    ““Linux sucks, says Theodore Ts’o.”

    And bears crap in the woods.”

    What the hell is this supposed to mean? This isn’t some click-bait trolling blogger like SJVN! You do know who Theodore T’so is, and what he works on, right?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Ts%27o

    He is one of the Linux kernel developers. He also works on Robert’s beloved Debian.

    If he says Linux sucks; pay attention

  46. oiaohm wrote of GNU/Linux, “Lack of Commercial applications only area it sux.”

    I have yet to see non-free software that is must-have, so that is irrelevant. Some people seem to believe nothing happened until M$ sold us permission to run our PCs. I remember DNA, insulin and the Moon were all discovered without M$’s permission. An operating system does not exist to provide a cash-cow, but to run computers. GNU/Linux is first-rate there.

  47. oiaohm says:

    Chris Weig recent upgraded my machine to kde 4.8.

    Memory including disk cache is less than 1G. My system has 8g in it. Its not like its out of memory or something. Its simply not using it. This is down from about 2g with kde 4.7

    When you know where kde development is going.

    The following parts are on chopping block.
    Depends: kde-runtime
    Depends: libkdecore5
    Depends: libkdeui5
    Depends: libkio5
    Depends: libknotifyconfig4
    These mostly exist as historic hang overs from when Qt was a project you could not submit patches to. So hacks where used to cover up its problems. Those are on the chopping block for the next 12 months to see how much of them can go by by.

    Already quite a few KDE libraries are gone. konsole dependences will for sure reduce more.

    The mandatories of konsole
    Depends: libkpty4 It draws the console and does the talking to bash and the like. No console without this.
    Depends: libqt4-dbus For application control ie for other applications to control the kconsole.
    Depends: libqtcore4 Cross platform graphical
    Depends: libqtgui4 Cross platform graphical
    Depends: libstdc++6 C++
    Depends: libx11-6″ Maybe not required on Wayland but most likely replaced by a wayland library.

    The we don’t know yet.
    Depends: libkonq5abi1 html backgrounds use this.
    Depends: libkparts4 embeding in applications uses this.
    Both of don’t know yet might disappear.

    Results of the historic junk being cut out are quite huge memory usage reductions.

    Chris Weig before you complain too much about runtime. Get the little registry cleaner from sourceforge for windows and watch the bugger pull in a full .net runtime making it no so little.

    Dependency bloat exists on Windows and Linux. Linux due to the package manager is simple to see what the hell depends on the bloat. So Linux applications you know what its brought in. You can generate a dependency tree. Little registry editer on windows you can uninstall .net then it don’t work. Same with a lot of other windows dependancies.

    Windows has true dependency hell. Linux has I am a prick and will not let conflicting install.

    Theodore Ts’o. is right and wrong at the same time. He is right Linux needs to cut the bloat. But compared to a general windows install Linux is still very clean.

    Chris Weig troll quoting without context I should point you to the Linux Rocks video where they directly compare across all OS’s. Result Linux Rocks compared to the rest in each issue area bar one. Lack of Commercial applications only area it sux.

    That is does not mean Linux cannot do better. KDE 4.7 to 4.8 shows they can.

    People still have trouble with basic windows problems today. OS X people also have problems.

    Exactly what OS are you throwing stones from Chris Weig.

  48. kozmcrae says:

    “Linux sucks, says Theodore Ts’o.”

    And bears crap in the woods.

  49. Ts’o has a very strict requirement:
    ” Finding a decent terminal window emulator which is easily configurable, supports tabs, and which handles the vt100 graphics characters used by mutt to show mail threading, is apparently not easy. “

    For those who don’t know, a vt100 is an old monochrome screen from 1978… It did graphics by sending special characters rather than raster-graphics for the whole screen.

    That’s like a three-page job-description that could only be satisfied by one person. That long list of requirements is the problem, not GNU/Linux. The guy has essentially locked himself into GNOME and wonders why life is difficult without it.

    His needs are simple but he wants an environment in which to run the apps that is very flexible but not complicated. Leaving off one or two of his requirements makes an environment easy to find:
    ” My main applications are a terminal, emacs, open office, and the Chrome browser. I do way more with web applications these days. Bloat is bad not just because of the increased disk and ram usage (although I do worry about that); bloat is bad because of the complexity”

  50. Chris Weig wrote, “Linux’s dependency hell rears its ugly head again. Yeah, package management on Linux is so very convenient.”

    Choice is not ugly.
    “apt-cache search terminal-emulator|wc
    36 289 2003”

    It’s pretty easy to find a mate that does not depend on KDE or GNOME.
    e.g.
    ” apt-cache depends rxvt
    rxvt
    Depends: libc6
    Depends: libx11-6
    Depends: libxpm4

    apt-cache depends konsole
    konsole
    Depends: kde-runtime
    Depends: libc6
    Depends: libkdecore5
    Depends: libkdeui5
    Depends: libkio5
    Depends: libknotifyconfig4
    Depends: libkonq5abi1
    Depends: libkparts4
    Depends: libkpty4
    Depends: libqt4-dbus
    Depends: libqtcore4
    Depends: libqtgui4
    Depends: libstdc++6
    Depends: libx11-6″

  51. Finalzone says:

    Chris Weig.
    Ts’o is using Debian Testing with XFCE. From the same link you posted, Fedora spin of XFCE works fine from the comment. It turned out the issue is distribution specific, not Linux as a whole you seemed to imply.

  52. Chris Weig says:

    Good quote from Ts’o:

    I’ll eventually try KDE’s terminal, but it’s really unfortunate when a simple terminal emulator drags in multiple gigabytes of associated shared libraries, most of which I’ll never use.

    ROFL. Linux’s dependency hell rears its ugly head again. Yeah, package management on Linux is so very convenient.

  53. Chris Weig says:

    Linux sucks, says Theodore Ts’o.

    My, my, my. Still having problems with desktop environments in the year 2012. It’s pathetic.

    And I’ve only brought this up because you, Mr. Pogson, never seem to have any problems. Which most likely means you’re not telling the truth. Aren’t you using XFCE? Seems that you don’t actually do any real work, contrary to people like Ts’o. So you’re failing to recognize all the problems.

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