ASUS 1015PX With Ubuntu GNU/Linux

I noticed a post about an ASUS netbook with Ubuntu GNU/Linux and was curious where it was sold.

Using Google search with

So, GNU/Linux on netbooks is not dead, just localized… Anticipating claims of “old stock” I looked up this message about interpreting the serial number. The first character is the last digit of the year and the second character is the hex month (1-C). So, this unit starting with “C1” was made in 2012-01.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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88 Responses to ASUS 1015PX With Ubuntu GNU/Linux

  1. oldman says:

    “What would you do if they only way to install MS office 2012 is from the Windows store. Or if the default anti-virus gets tuned to remove everything not installed by the store.”

    Your tinfoil hat needs adjusting sir…

  2. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon read my words carefully.
    “Phenom Yet you write a game sell it to a distributor and someone write a book from it and you don’t see a cent.”
    Clarence Moon
    “The plot from a popular novel, along with an association of its characters would likely be seen as a work, though, if you tried to poach it to make a video game. Phenom is correct in implying that you would be sued from pillar to post.”
    Who would sue you who would get paid. The Distributor at min. The author might see nothing.

    The important question here is who gets the money. Game coders and designers who are not there own Distributors get shafted big time. There are some books as well sold the same way to Distributors where the author will see nothing more than the payment on the book since all other rights own to the Distributor.

    oldman
    “And you are assuming that the market will just go along passively with a transition from win32 to winRT, a by no means guaranteed situation.”
    I am not assuming passive. I am simple saying that if MS wins the current round it will back them doing it more legally and then we will have problems because MS can decide to steam roll.

    oldman
    “Microsoft is not going to get people to update until they “correct the problem” (i.e. show sinofsky the door).”
    Adobe is already taking on that problem with photoshop. No more updates no more activation. Yes people forget XP on wants activation servers. Oldman what will you do with XP on with no activation servers.

    Basically oldman staying on windows is not an option to avoid windows 8 style interface if Microsoft stays path for 9 and 10. This is why I say its now time to get up and make noise. If you don’t now you could find yourself pinned and forced to update.

    Oldman you have walked into a trap. 2000 and XP volume you could install and make work without activation servers. Microsoft has trapped you so they no longer have to listen to you. Being a trapped crowd is not a good thing.

    What would you do if they only way to install MS office 2012 is from the Windows store. Or if the default anti-virus gets tuned to remove everything not installed by the store.

    Oldman Microsoft has the weapons now to crush they need to see if it legally allowed. Its time to speak up or suffer.

  3. Clarence Moon says:

    the keyword is “the book”

    The keyword is “unique expression”, Mr. Pogson. A recipe for tortilla soup is unlikely to be deemed a unique expression since it is almost always a straightforward list of ingredients and steps to prepare. The information in the recipe is not protected by copyright although it could perhaps be patented. No possibility of it being a trade secret, though, except in Mr. Oiaohm’s vicinity!

    The total collection of recipes would likely be construed as a unique expression and qualify as a copyrighted work. The plot from a popular novel, along with an association of its characters would likely be seen as a work, though, if you tried to poach it to make a video game. Phenom is correct in implying that you would be sued from pillar to post.

  4. oldman says:

    “Pure lie oldman. Opera Firefox and Chrome have been told forget getting access to particular stuff forever.”

    Citations please.

    “oldman about time you step back and look at your software you will be using some stuff that will be effected by what MS is upto.”

    In point of fact I don’t have to do anything. WinRT is not going to be a factor in any of the software that I use, if ever, for quite a large number of years.

    And you are assuming that the market will just go along passively with a transition from win32 to winRT, a by no means guaranteed situation.

    And then there is the bad press that Metro on the non touch enabled desktop is getting . If the backlash in the real world is even a small faction of that in the early adopters, Microsoft is not going to get people to update until they “correct the problem” (i.e. show sinofsky the door).

    All in all I figure that we are looking at a 3-5 years after win8 ships and is successful before the trend of things becomes clear and easily 5-10 years after that to work all that legacy code out of the market.

    IN short I expect no problems that I will have to deal with any time soon.

  5. Phenom says:

    Spam filter in action again.

  6. Phenom says:

    Pogson, replace “recipe” with “story”. So why shall software be left unprotected?

  7. oiaohm says:

    Phenom Yet you write a game sell it to a distributor and someone write a book from it and you don’t see a cent.

    Reality coders and designers of games get screwed over. It is wiser to write the book first.

  8. Phenom, the keyword is “the book”. That’s a work and is protectable. A particular scene in the book may not be. A particular recipe in a cookbook is not. I can write, “Take this list of ingredients:… and do these steps with them:…” and no one has any legal leverage if my book or performance is not a copy of their book or performance. You can have copyrights on a book but not on knowledge.

  9. Phenom says:

    Pogson, imagine I develop a computer game, based on a story from a book I just decided to use, and this game becomes world famous.

    Now I give you three guesses what the publishers and author of the book will do with me.

  10. oiaohm says:

    This shows how little you look at the big picture.

    Windows 8 RT oldman take a very close look. API have been restricted based on who you are. Particular API’s have been locked off for everything bar Microsoft applications. If MS wins on Windows 8 RT what has been done there will apply across everything.

    Valve is doing a sane response.

    oldman
    “Microsoft is not going to cut off its major ISV’s unless their software really doesn’t pass muster.”
    Pure lie oldman. Opera Firefox and Chrome have been told forget getting access to particular stuff forever.

    Not all your software will come from major ISV’s.

    Microsoft is a Major ISV and they want everything. So they will attempt to kill the other Major ISV’s where they have a competing product.

    oldman about time you step back and look at your software you will be using some stuff that will be effected by what MS is upto.

  11. oldman says:

    “This has also caused a major reaction from Valve that priority one is make all items work on OS X and Linux.”

    So a game vendor gets their knickers in a twist because windows 8 doesnt’t appear to be particularly game friendly. Assuming that I even gave a crap, This is hardly a tragedy in a world where the game console rules.

    “What about software you like Microsoft decides is forbid and they enforce it. If you want to prevent this now is the time to be upset.”

    I doubt that any of the software that I use will fall in this class sir. Microsoft is not going to cut off its major ISV’s unless their software really doesn’t pass muster. In that case I will bet that microsoft will bend over backwards to help a major ISV through the certification process.

  12. oiaohm says:

    oldman “Microsoft will have to be reasonable in its requirements”
    Mostly because this has been proven false with the Win RT API access without court or government intervention. This has also caused a major reaction from Valve that priority one is make all items work on OS X and Linux.

    If the public is not upset by something the government will not normally alter it.

    I do stand by the fact a store can reduce malware. But it now does look like other distribution systems will be fairly much neutralised unless action is done to stop it.

    Linux and Android systems it is possible to add other repositories if one repository cannot host something due to legal or other conflict.

    So installing third party applications not from the store in a few cycles could become impossible Oldman.

    Yes there has been a radical change and yes it based on more upto date assessment of Microsoft current actions.

    oldman
    “Personally, so long as I can get my software and updates from the microsoft store, I would be perfectly fine with it.”
    What about software you like Microsoft decides is forbid and they enforce it. If you want to prevent this now is the time to be upset.

  13. oiaohm says:

    oldman
    “Elsewhere you noted positively that a Microsoft store would be a good thing because it would result in fewer malware issues. Care to explain the change of heart.”

    As I have studied it deeper. Linux distrobutions have the option of adding extra repositories. Android also has this possibility.

    The hardening of secuirty options I am seeing in windows 8 does really mean in a few generations it could auto strip out any third party software installed that does not own to the store.

    “This also assumes that the ISV’s buy into abandoning their own distribution channels and put all their eggs in Microsoft basket – something that is not a foregone conclusion.”

    Turns out Valve is fairly sure Microsoft will be able to shutdown their distribution system on Windows 8 so has made functional ports on Linux and OS X of everything priority 1. So I am not the only one reacting badly.

    Yes a store limits malware from idiots so is a positive but there is a point of too much control as well.

    Plus add in MS action to keep api on win nt for its own web browser only that mozilla and others are now fighting in the courts. So proving oldman statement “Microsoft will have to be reasonable in its requirements” statement false. Microsoft is going to have to be forced to provide reasonable requirements its not going to give them. So if we don’t fight now we are going to have some unreasonable requirements to live with.

    Window users are in trouble Oldman. They need to bring pressure to bear now. “governments permits it” happens when the public don’t show interest in things.

    Yes a big change in point of view a week can make.

    Oldman its not like me to move my point of view this radically this quickly set of events caused it.

  14. A recipe is not a creative work but functional. Those are not protectable. A book, however is.

    See USC17 sect 102:
    “§102 · Subject matter of copyright: In general

    (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”

    The recipe, the process of cooking something, is not protectable. Anyone can use the recipe freely.

  15. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote: Recipes alone are not copyright protected, only the collection

    Incorrect. Just try to have a cooking TV show or a book, featuring a recipe by Jacque Pepin, without his permission. See you in court. 🙂

  16. oldman says:

    “This is the path we are on. We are at the time to fight. One day you might buy a machine with windows on and the only software you can install is the software Microsoft approved.”

    I suspect that day will only come if the market accepts it AND the governments permits it. Remember, Microsoft will have to be reasonable in its requirements, if only because of the reality that many of ISV’s would probably have some work to do to adapt to the new store structure. This also assumes that the ISV’s buy into abandoning their own distribution channels and put all their eggs in microsofts basket – something that is not a foregone conclusion.

    Oh BTW. Elsewhere you noted positively that a Microsoft store would be a good thing because it would result in fewer malware issues. Care to explain the change of heart.

    I find this quite funny coming from someone who regularly lauds that closed ghetto that is your average linux repostiry and who thinks that being able to run “crapt install whatever” is nirvana.

    Personally, so long as I can get my software and updates from the microsoft store, I would be perfectly fine with it.

  17. Phenom wrote, “There are actually three components in the process of getting the work done: hardware, software, and “orgware”.”

    The cost of hardware more or less follows Moore’s Law and actually declines over time and improves price/performance. That other OS is actually rising in price as it loses market share to keep M$’s coffers full, giving worsened price/perfromance for consumers as time goes by. Because of monopoly, M$ can do that. The value of anything is the least of cost to build, or buy. One can buy FLOSS for much less than that other OS so the Wintel monopoly is causing IT to be over-priced. This could be the last year that happens but it has taken a long time for the market to heal after US DOJ and the courts botched the job of chopping up Wintel.

  18. Recipes alone are not copyright protected, only the collection.

  19. oiaohm says:

    Phenom yet the person who wrote the cookbook is likely to see more money from the book than the coders who worked on your applications for Microsoft. Particularly with Microsoft moving there coding departments to countries that pay lower wages.

    There is a big hole in the middle basically.

    Also software is not like food or a real world book. Coders were paid a fixed wage rate. They get no kick back based on the number of items sold or how good they really are.

    FOSS coders in fact normally get paid more than Microsoft coders. There is no valid logic to compare software to books at least for the Microsoft stuff where the coders are paid a fixed wage.

    There could be other companies that treat their coders better. Lot of ways calling it slave labour is valid. Since the coders in the past have used easter eggs hidden in microsoft programs to display the list of people who really did write that program for you.

    Yes this is the reality of closed source all the people making the product for you has nothing to show for all the good effort they do other than a poor wage.

  20. Phenom says:

    Pogson, please get serious. Hardware alone does nothing. Software alone does nothing. Both can also do almost nothing. There are actually three components in the process of getting the work done: hardware, software, and “orgware”. The last is the know-how and efforts to combine hardware, software and human resources efficiently to get the job done.

    And, for your info, cooking books are sold for a price, much exceeding the costs of the paper and printing. Because cooking is also hard, takes talent, and a few can do it in an outstanding way (I can say that, being an amateur hobbist cook, but I can bravely declare I cook far better than the average house wife / husband).

  21. oiaohm says:

    oldman really lets look closer devices you don’t always have the right to change the firmware.

    This is the path we are on. We are at the time to fight. One day you might buy a machine with windows on and the only software you can install is the software Microsoft approved.

    Also people have not thought Windows 8 through. MS has your data in the cloud right what are the terms of service if you device is suspected of containing pirated software. Can they clear the device and hold you data as collateral until you pay up.

    Windows 8 changes many rules the question is these changes in your favour. Or will they be changes you will regret as windows users.

  22. oldman wrote, “If I want to avail myself of the function and features of a particular piece of software, I have to do so on the terms of the creator.

    its that simple…”

    That neglects the obvious fact that it’s the hardware that does all the work, and you paid for it. You should not have to pay extra for a simple list of steps any more than you should have to pay for a recipe for bread when you can get such things for $0. The cost of developing software is serious but the cost of software to anyone user should be very small thanks to the Internet allowing distribution for a tiny cost. What does a gigabyte download cost you? It’s that simple.

  23. oldman says:

    “So when you allow Microsoft to own your computer you surrender certain rights to them. That’s okay if you do so with full knowledge of what you are doing.But like Robert said, why should you have to get permission to run your own computer? ”

    Of course no company “owns” my computer hardware. I do have a dozen or so licenses to use software that I purchased. this does not seem to be much of a big deal to me. The terms were acceptable, the price was right, the software suited and there we are.
    thats
    And in the end it comes down to the simple reality. If I want to avail myself of the function and features of a particular piece of software, I have to do so on the terms of the creator.

    its that simple…

    As far as permission to run software that I have licensed from its owner on my own computer, what of it. I have agreed to the terms and to be frank, I get value from using that licensed software.

  24. oiaohm says:

    Viktor “And there I was remembering how often FLOSS evangelists endorse everything that comes from the great Google. I heard they have this Chromebooks, which shift everything into the big cloud of doom!”

    I have been anti chrome-books as well. I work from a secuirty point of view. Storage on systems you don’t control have risks. RMS talking about did not see chrome-books as a good idea either.

    FLOSS people don’t always agree with each other.

  25. Viktor says:

    Cloud storage is not something you can be 100 percent sure is secure.

    And there I was remembering how often FLOSS evangelists endorse everything that comes from the great Google. I heard they have this Chromebooks, which shift everything into the big cloud of doom!

  26. oiaohm says:

    Phenom please stop bluting out crap. Simple fact windows 8 has a perfect storm in it.

    User goes to give device away it has not synced with cloud they terminate account all data is fully removed. End of data for ever.

    This is Windows 8. The Linux model of keeping the storage device with your records is the better model. At least you should have lower odds of goofing it.

    Phenom “But, as usual, you simply blurt out a wall of text with only tiniest traces of actual knowledge.”

    As usual you posted without having a clue what the issue is. Did you not think of checking if you could add data to a windows 8 device then delete it before syncing.

  27. oiaohm says:

    Phenom sorry I have used windows 8 it has an account termination option and you can do while data is not cloud synced. As normal MS design is flawed.

    Cloud storage is not something you can be 100 percent sure is secure.

  28. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote: So, Phenom’s assertion is wrong.

    The assertion is not mine, Pogson:
    http://statowl.com/operating_system_market_share.php

  29. Viktor says:

    That’s an impressive list, Pogson. But I can do any single thing of this list on Windows. Or on Mac OS X. And for many of your categories Linux offers only bottom-of-the-barrel software.

  30. Ivan, misquoting RMS wrote, “Because he doesn’t.”

    RMS does browse the web and he does it using a browser, but not all the time. I don’t browse the web all the time either. I use wget a lot for file downloads, and I have a life other than computers too. The guy travels a lot all over the world where he has no ISP. Of course he does things differently. He is different.

  31. Phenom wrote, of FLOSS, “Doesn’t work for 99% of the dekstop users.”

    There must be some pretty unusual people in the city of Munich, French national police, Google, City of Largo, Extremadura Spain, etc. Those large organizations have gone with a much higher percentage than 1% using FLOSS, some 100%, others 80-90%. So, Phenom’s assertion is wrong.

  32. Clarence Moon says:

    something as basic as a working desktop is now considered magic?

    If you can get it for free, certainly. The problem is staying satisfied with those crumbs that fall from the FOSS developer’s table. If you want to be on the leading edge, you have to pay to play.

    With one or two exceptions possibly, FOSS applications are bottom tier products that stem from somebody’s hobby effort to provide software. For things such as Open Office, they may be the fallout from a failed commercial venture, but they are mostly just personal attempts to mimic a successful commercial product and come out long after the original.

    Some of these products are quite usable in spite of it all, but those efforts, for example Eclipse, come out long after the mainstream users have standardized on something else that inspired the clone project.

  33. Viktor wrote, “a working desktop is now considered magic?”

    Chuckle. Magic =

    • database,
    • web servery,
    • file/print,
    • network management,
    • multimedia generation and editing,
    • multimedia playing/presenting,
    • software development,
    • caching tons of stuff for the whole network,
    • number-crunching,
    • a fleet of desktop applications, and
    • cool graphics
  34. Viktor says:

    Ewww! Yuck! $0 enables my PC to do magic with FLOSS.

    Wait, something as basic as a working desktop is now considered magic? No wonder that you’re behind the times. Why don’t you try to impress people at your local hardware store with the spinning Compiz cube? That should work.

  35. Phenom says:

    Pogson, a comment to rescue. Thanks.

  36. oiaohm says:

    Phenom I would not dare say 99% of desktop users with the existing studies showing in business use only normally 20 percent windows is required.

    Might be 99 percent because a lot don’t know better or 99% in a particular class of desktop users.

  37. Phenom says:

    Ohio blurted: Windows 8 lets add a delete all persons settings and so on from the machine. Where Linux person keeps their hard drive. Hard drive is just transferred to the next machine.

    Ohio, should you had the slighest idea what you were talking about, you would have known that Windows 8 can store all personal settings on the cloud. Moving to another PC with 8 means basically getting connected to the Internet and login with your LIVE account. But, as usual, you simply blurt out a wall of text with only tiniest traces of actual knowledge.

    Oldman was right. Linux users live in the stone age and praise stone axes when the rest of the world is using metal and plastic tools.

  38. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote: $0 enables my PC to do magic with FLOSS

    Works for you, Pogson. Doesn’t work for 99% of the dekstop users.

  39. Ivan says:

    The guy uses several websites. What makes you think he does not browse?

    Because he doesn’t.

    For personal reasons, I do not browse the web from my computer. (I
    also have not net connection much of the time.) To look at page I
    send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me.
    It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time.

    http://lwn.net/Articles/262570/

  40. oiaohm says:

    Prong Reboots Australian law. Fair trading. Anyone off the street can walk in and buy a OEM copy. This makes Microsoft lot more willing to talk.

    So retail versions basically don’t sell here. Microsoft even tried to prevent OEM copies from being displayed in shop windows on sale and they legally cannot do that either.

    Phenom I have handled over 40 motherboard fail and replace cases. Lot go the way you say. But I have had a few go the path that the person had lost the install disk or something else that owned to the machine so MS would not reissue new key. As a system builder I can sign declares on machines I have built to allow new key to be issued. This is only useful if the system builder built the machine in the first place is still in business. Lot of cases this here is because someone has installed the same product key on many machines.

    The bigger problem I have lets take my Linux system here. The OS it self was installed clean over 10 years ago. It has changed motherboards in that time just by having hard-drive pulled and inserted into next machine. This means I never had to setup all my applications again this is extra downtime after a failed motherboard.

    Fine check for thieves. But you don’t have to do it in a way that harddrives cannot be transferred between machines.

    Really Linux works more like a real world book you can transfer it between reading locations.

    Of course most windows users are use to the idea new version equals reinstall. Not lot of Linux person who systems are upgrades after upgrades. For 10 + years. A reinstall in a pain is a strange event to us.

    Windows 8 lets add a delete all persons settings and so on from the machine. Where Linux person keeps their hard drive. Hard drive is just transferred to the next machine. I bet a few windows 8 users are going to come crying to me wanting their data back.

  41. Clarence Moon says:

    We do not permit the licence for a book…

    I do not believe I have ever seen a book license, Mr. Pogson. Do they have such things in Canada?

    Copyright is about protecting the rights of the creator of a work, not about harming others.

    Where is there any harm? Someone who simply wants to be paid for beneficial use of their copyrighted work is hardly harming anyone. They may be denying that use to the ingrates who refuse to pay although I think most everything in the software world, as with music and video, is available in unauthorized copy versions if you look hard enough.

    So realistically, all that a copyright does is deny the violator any sense of moral well-being. They can still use the product.

  42. Prong Reboots wrote, ” This is probably why OEM licenses are so much cheaper since the alternative is the $200 retail version, which does enable “your PC” to be whatever you happen to be running at the moment.”

    Ewww! Yuck! $0 enables my PC to do magic with FLOSS.

  43. Prong Reboots says:

    According to agreement between Microsoft and the OEM (and how Windows’ VLK validation actually works), “your” computer turns into a new model once the motherboard is replaced, at least with a non-OEM replacement. While decidedly inconvenient in certain circumstances, remember that there are two parties in the contract. While Microsoft would surely enjoy selling a second copy of Windows, perhaps prematurely, the OEM would also like selling a second computer. I very much doubt Acer, Dell, HP, Lenovo, et al protested loudly against the idea that customers wouldn’t be able to step-upgrade PCs, thus cutting OEMs out of the loop. This is probably why OEM licenses are so much cheaper since the alternative is the $200 retail version, which does enable “your PC” to be whatever you happen to be running at the moment.

  44. kozmcrae says:

    Prong Reboots wrote:

    “Calls to Microsoft regarding license activation get resolved one way or the other in few minutes.”

    In a perfect world. But like Robert said, why should you have to get permission to run your own computer? That is unless it isn’t your computer.

    So when you allow Microsoft to own your computer you surrender certain rights to them. That’s okay if you do so with full knowledge of what you are doing.

  45. Prong Reboots says:

    I think most people would indeed agree their time is worth something. However such would more likely manifest in the form of purchasing a new computer (with Windows) than attempting any sort of repair whatsoever on the old computer. As for the presented situation, the vast majority of the time would have been spent conversing with the OEM over warranty service, researching and ordering a compatible replacement motherboard, waiting for shipment, then installing motherboard. Calls to Microsoft regarding license activation get resolved one way or the other in few minutes. It’s simply the last step in an already long process.

  46. kozmcrae says:

    Viktor wrote:

    “And why is “Linux” missing on your resume?” And other stuff that makes no sense at all.

    I don’t know who you are talking to but it’s not to me.

  47. Phenom wrote, “When the Internet activation failed, we called Microsoft, explained the situation, and we received a new product activation key for free.”

    Only if you have nothing better to do with your time but grovel at the feet of M$. Why bother with such high-maintenance systems? Is your time worth nothing? Why should anyone need M$’s permission to run their PC? What legal recourse do you have if M$ says, “Buy another licence.”?

  48. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote:
    Jill buys a PC with that other OS and the motherboard goes belly-up in 30 days and it was a clearance item with no possibility of exact replacement.

    I was speaking of sofware in general, but lets focus on OSes, if you insist.

    In this case the vendor would most replace the whole machine and give you a new one with new Windows on it. Or, the repairs will include the new OS license, if necessary. Jill bought a PC with Windows and a PC with Windows she must have during the course of the warranty.

    Btw, I had a case 7-8 years ago when the motherboard of a PC with expired warranty died, and we had to purchase a new motherboard. When the Internet activation failed, we called Microsoft, explained the situation, and we received a new product activation key for free. I know this might violate the official policy, but this is what MS did in my case.

    Fair? What you try to enforce is not fair for the software vendors. Life is simply not fair.

  49. Phenom says:

    Andrew, if you can’t find the relation between these two yourself, I can’t really help you anymore. Better go and ask your school for compensations on a job poorly done.

  50. Andrew says:

    “…And before you go into petty nitpicking”.

    Not nitpicking, but the question wasn’t market-share; you said “95% of then end up with a pirate version of Windows.”

  51. Phenom wrote, “Why not? Consider expiration as software rental.”

    Why? Because it is unfair. Joe buys a PC with that other OS and gets 6 years of service from the system. Jill buys a PC with that other OS and the motherboard goes belly-up in 30 days and it was a clearance item with no possibility of exact replacement. M$ says the repaired machine is a new PC and needs a new licence. Jill pays 72 times as much as Joe for the same thing. If M$ rented its service for $1/month it might actually be a good deal if one really needed it but paying for a lifetime of use and getting only a month is wrong.

  52. Phenom says:

    Pogson, a comment to rescue, please.

  53. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote: Why can a software developer issue a licence with an expiry date, or other restrictions?

    Why not? Consider expiration as software rental. Renting software allows smaller companies to obtain and use high-quality software until their business grows. Further, there are software systems that expire naturally due to external factors. An example of such are the human resources and remuneration software. The legislation is so dynamic, that software must be constantly updated, and updates are too expensive to be given for free, or the sofware would cost an enourmous amount of money.

  54. Phenom says:

    Andrew wrote: To come up with such an accurate number; What method was used to track these laptops? A valid link?

    http://statowl.com/operating_system_market_share.php

    And before you go into petty nitpicking: There are PCs, laptops and netbooks sold without Windows installed. Fact. Despite that, Linux can barely get beyond 1% share. Fact. The link between the two is pretty clear for non-loons.

  55. Clarence Moon wrote, “That is up to the vendor, I think. “

    No. It’s not. We do not permit the licence for a book to include terms that are illegal. We should not permit anti-competitive elements to a licence for software. Copyright is about protecting the rights of the creator of a work, not about harming others. A book is just sold with copyright markings and no EULA. Software should be the same. A book does not expire at a certain date, or situation. Why can a software developer issue a licence with an expiry date, or other restrictions? That’s abuse of copyright.

  56. Andrew says:

    “…95% of then end up with a pirate version of Windows.”

    To come up with such an accurate number; What method was used to track these laptops? A valid link?

  57. Phenom says:

    Pogson wrote: People should be able to buy software for PCs just like they buy nuts and bolts: no restrictions on use and a visible price.

    But people are, Pogson. Where I live now it is quite possible to go and by a laptop without Windows installed. They come with either some Linux, or, more often, with Free DOS. However, 95% of then end up with a pirate version of Windows.

  58. Clarence Moon says:

    People should be able to buy software for PCs just like they buy nuts and bolts: no restrictions on use and a visible price.

    That is up to the vendor, I think. Software is sold more like any other creative work that can be copyrighted and the author has the right to set the terms. It is not a physical item like a nut or a bolt, rather it is like the story in a book or a piece of music. You will never get your way, even from the FOSS side. There you still have to comply with rules on use and distribution.

  59. kozmcrae wrote, “That one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard from the Cult of Microsoft. Very funny.”

    That’s very dark humour. M$ has gone far beyond what a normal/good/legal business does to promote its product with exclusive dealing, lock-ins of all sorts, enslavement of ISVs, OEMs, retailers and end-users, and providing endless increases in complexity and unreliability. People should be able to buy software for PCs just like they buy nuts and bolts: no restrictions on use and a visible price. Suppression of competition is the key signature of evil in personal computer operating systems.

  60. oiaohm writes about “why RMS calls Proprietary Software immoral”.

    I actually think the term “proprietary software” is a misnomer. All software is owned by someone, it’s creator. The issues stem from what the owner does with the software. In FLOSS, the creator allows the recipient of the software to have a licence to use, examine, modify and to distribute the software passing on a licence to do the same things. Non-FREE software, the term I prefer, restricts those things in various bizarre ways. For instance, M$ restricts connecting a machine running its software on a PC to no more than 10 machines so they can sell server licences. Essentially they are enslaving machines, and end-users with crippleware. I think that’s evil, like selling candy to children that is laced with drugs.

    Society should severely limit the power of owners of software from harming people with such restrictions. We regulate the spacing of bars in children’s beds and hand-rails for good and proper reasons. The unfettered abuse of copyright through licensing restrictions is a similar evil because it enslaves people, their IT systems and stifles competition through lock-in. Licences for non-FREE software should be limited to granting usage but not copying. Any other restriction should be illegal. It’s none of M$’s business what people do with their PCs. M$ is not owed a living and should not be able to sell other products because of restrictions in the licence. Similarly, M$ should not be able to use a licence to make a copy to get an OEM to do anything else than distribute the software. The world is moving to my way of thinking but very slowly. So far we have seen ~a dozen governments give preference to FLOSS. It’s a start.

  61. oiaohm says:

    Viktor mostly real hackers work as advisers to writers and actors. Special effects work pays better in most cases and is more fun.

  62. Viktor wrote, “I know several big-budget TV shows who are looking for actors with mad hacker skillz for hacker roles.”

    Hey! Does the job come with groupies and do they require a good-looking guy with great hair? 😉

  63. Viktor says:

    That one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard from the Cult of Microsoft. Very funny.

    Wow, another super-insightful post. From all the people here you’re the most deluded one. You don’t have a clue about anything, especially with regards to Linux, yet you spout other people’s crap which you’ve swallowed whole without knowing what it means. Making your “opinion” absolutely worthless.

    Hard to believe that a university awarded you a degree. It seems that the Californian education system is really down in the dumps.

    And why is “Linux” missing on your resume? I know several big-budget TV shows who are looking for actors with mad hacker skillz for hacker roles.

  64. oiaohm says:

    Yonah really you should to read why RMS calls Proprietary Software immoral. You will find RMS does not class what ID does as immoral. Closed for so long at end of life releases the source code. This way a person trapped by a end of line product has some options.

    I am a person who has suffered because of products end life suddenly same with RMS. Age brings some wisdom here. Of course RMS does take a stronger point of view. He is also older than me.

    RMS has been in the trade a very long time this does bring some wisdom.

    Yonah most people who don’t agree 100 percent with RMS can if they do look see what the logical issues he is pointing to are. There is normally something in what RMS says we need to consider and make up our own minds. In fact this is what RMS prefers people todo.

    Yonah you think some of the thing I do are creative. Some that RMS does some that take the cake particularly the reasons why. http://www.stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html

    We all who know RMS understand he has this weird streak. Thing this is fun. Both RMS and Linus contain the just for fun idea. RMS does show it from time to time. RMS tries to be more serous.

  65. kozmcrae says:

    Yonah wrote:

    “Start pushing your choices on me and we have a real problem.”

    That one of the funniest things I’ve ever heard from the Cult of Microsoft. Very funny.

  66. Yonah wrote, “the man doesn’t use a web browser, putting him very far out of touch with the computing lifestyle of an overwhelming majority of people.”

    The guy uses several websites. What makes you think he does not browse?

    “I have several free web browsers on my laptop, but I generally do not look at web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites operated for or by the GNU Project, FSF or me. I fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me.”

    see How I do my computing

  67. Yonah says:

    kozmcrae: “Free software for all. Yes, there are people who would genuinely be threatened by that idea.”

    I doubt it. Personally, I’m not threated by Free Software unless FOSS advocates and other cult members begin an active campaign to make Proprietary Software illegal or in some other way attempt to limit my choice. Start pushing your choices on me and we have a real problem.

    That aside, I find Free Software advocates both entertaining and annoying. Oiaohm’s creative twists on technology along with his challenging literary style keep me coming back to see what he’ll write next. Kozmcrae’s militant rage and hypocritical banter begs for confrontation and humiliation.

    Simply put, this blog rocks.

  68. Yonah says:

    Richard Stallman doesn’t need anyone’s help being considered undesirable. He’s done most of the hard work himself. His obvious physical unpleasantness aside, the man doesn’t use a web browser, putting him very far out of touch with the computing lifestyle of an overwhelming majority of people. Despite this, he then has the audacity to declare proprietary software as “immoral” and inspires his cult-like followers to spread his gospel of freedom. The most polite thing I can say to that is, “No thanks, fatty.”

  69. oiaohm says:

    Clarence Moon the other thing is there has been a dispute over Android/Linux tag as well. Since most things using /Linux tag can use a kernel build from the source from kernel.org and work. Android until 3.3 kernel was released could not at all.

    So really for universal accepted Android/Linux usage is once the android kernel and the kernel at kernel.org are interchangeable.

    Lot of the slash stuff is a short form of hardware developers or software developers understanding the kind of beast they are taking on.

  70. oiaohm says:

    Viktor Free GNU/Linux and GNU/Linux-libre are sub titles for GNU/Linux systems without closed source. Yes those titles have to be endorsed.

    If you dig far enough even RMS refers to Ubuntu as GNU/Linux.

    http://www.osnews.com/story/25724 Even RMS uses the term Ubuntu GNU/Linux himself.

    Viktor the true facts of the matter you are the one that does not understand RMS.

    RMS is not that extreme really. The define you are using is not RMS but Shuttleworth Viktor. Other than being the head of Ubuntu Shuttleworth define means nothing. This is why you see Ubuntu people rejecting the GNU/Linux title. Its not RMS.

    Clarence Moon Android is technically Android/Linux. If Android appeared using a different kernel using the / would become important. Android/QNX maybe. Yes its confusing that the Android runtime and Android OS are exactly the same name.

    Debian using the / is very important due to the many different kernel options there are. Debian/kfreebsd and Debian/Linux are the two most common.

  71. Viktor says:

    Quite frankly Viktor [content deleted by kozmcrae].

    That’s the spirit! Stallman is even a better actor than you can ever hope to be. He has this “cult dude” thing really down.

    But don’t forget:

    “It’s about appreciating life!”

    調和

    Peace out.

  72. Clarence Moon says:

    “Android/Linux”? What the heck is that? There is the Linux that next to no one uses for desktops and then there is the Android that people used on phones and tablets. I think that the use of Linux on the desktop requires the use of some ancient utility programs if you want to delve into the innards of it all, but installing Ubuntu or another modern version of Linux does not seem to require them.

    In any case Android does not use them, so it is foolish to pretend that they have relevance in this day and age.

  73. kozmcrae says:

    Quite frankly Viktor [content deleted by kozmcrae].

  74. Viktor says:

    Quite frankly, I can’t believe that Richard Stallman has done more for FLOSS than Koz McRae. That’s a ridiculous notion.

  75. kozmcrae says:

    I see the Cult of Microsoft are falling all over themselves trying to associate undesirable with Richard Stallman today. The man has undeniably wrought so much good in the World. Anyone who would work so hard at bringing him down clearly feels threatened by his work.

    Free software for all. Yes, there are people who would genuinely be threatened by that idea. But for some reason they never state that. They attack the man, not his ideals. What’s with that?

  76. Clarence Moon wrote, wishfully, “What little technology is contained in the GNU utilities that he developed is passe’ to an extreme.”

    No, it’s not passe’. The GNU system is more or less a UNIX-like OS and UNIX-like OS are everywhere: official UNIX variants on servers, MacOS, GNU/Linux, Android/Linux… Growth rate of installations is huge compared to non-UNIX systems. e.g. more Android/Linux systems are produced annually than the ubiquitous x86 systems with that other OS. Wintel itself is down to very low growth even with rapidly growing emerging markets in South America, Africa, and Asia.

    There’s a reason for the vibrance of the UNIX-like OS. It gets the job done with a minimum of overhead and a maximum of efficiency. We have fairly good data on OS usage in web-servers: that other OS is down to what, 15% of the million busiest sites?

    UNIX-like OS are current, vigorous and not going away soon.

  77. Clarence Moon says:

    the thought that “real” doctorate degrees are invariably more credible than honoris causa doctorate degrees has taken a real nosedive.

    Which, if true, may explain the chaos in the European economy, Viktor. Would you take a course from that man? What could you hope to learn?

    What little technology is contained in the GNU utilities that he developed is passe’ to an extreme. What remains is a narrowly defined and held theory about copyright law and an equally ignored theory of software commerce.

    Nothing really there but chutzpah.

  78. Viktor wrote, “You people haven’t understood the teachings of Dr. Richard Stallman.”

    I write, “You people haven’t understood the teachings of Dr. Richard Stallman.”

    RMS advocates an ideal and advocates striving to achieve it. He is practical enough to realize the status quo. The more places FLOSS is used the better. GNU+some non-FREE is better than non-FREE alone. He does not advocate not using FLOSS if any non-FREE software is present.

    In the real world, I do quite well using mostly FLOSS:
    pogson@beast:~$ vrms
    Non-free packages installed on beast

    firmware-linux-nonfree Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kerne
    firmware-realtek Binary firmware for Realtek wired and wireless network
    opera Fast and secure web browser and Internet suite

    Contrib packages installed on beast

    nspluginwrapper A wrapper to run Netscape plugins on other architectur

    3 non-free packages, 0.1% of 2073 installed packages.
    1 contrib packages, 0.0% of 2073 installed packages.

    I have a few packages installed manually without using APT that might be counted. I doubt any are non-FREE. I could chuck opera. I am not sure I actually use nspluginwrapper. No package depends on it. Beast is definitely a GNU/Linux system.

  79. Viktor says:

    He got some honorary degrees from various places in Europe due to the socialist audacity of his program, but nothing to qualify him as “Dr” for real.

    Hate to break it to you, dude, but with a certain wave of plagiarism uncovering in Germany, the thought that “real” doctorate degrees are invariably more credible than honoris causa doctorate degrees has taken a real nosedive. A doctorate degree is in many academic fields of today not a real achievement.

  80. Viktor says:

    That is wrong. As you can see here, the FSF implicitly understands a GNU/Linux distribution to be a free GNU/Linux distribution:

    Free GNU/Linux system distributions (or “distros”) only include and only propose free software. They reject non-free applications, non-free programming platforms, non-free drivers, non-free firmware “blobs”, and any other non-free software and documentation. If they discover that by mistake some had been included, they remove it.

    For sure, any distribution that includes GNU and Linux is technically a GNU/Linux distribution, but as it is not endorsed by the FSF, which accepts only free GNU/Linux distributions to be true GNU/Linux distributions, we can safely conclude that Ubuntu can not be called a GNU/Linux distribution because it is a non-free GNU/Linux distribution and does not conform to the expectation the FSF has in a GNU/Linux distribution — namely: to be free.

    This is not like the Catholic church, where you can break some commandments, confess, pay up, and be free of sin again. You people haven’t understood the teachings of Dr. Richard Stallman.

  81. quoting from the link:
    “Today there are many different variants of the GNU/Linux system (often called “distros”). Most of them include non-free software—their developers follow the philosophy associated with Linux rather than that of GNU. But there are also completely free GNU/Linux distros. The FSF supports computer facilities for two of these distributions, Ututo and gNewSense.”

    That seems to accept the existence of non-Free-software-including distros as GNU/Linux.

  82. oiaohm says:

    Viktor This is the word of Dr. Richard Stallman
    http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

    Sorry you claim does of this
    “No, it’s not. As long as Ubuntu includes non-free software, it’s not really a GNU/Linux in the eyes of Dr. Richard Stallman. And he’s absolutely right”

    Does not conform to the word of RMS. GNU/Linux-libre is the one that does not contain any closed source.

    Clarence Moon are you a twit who does not read I gave a link to the word of Dr. Richard Stallman defining GNU/Linux. Viktor you cannot redefine a term that is set in stone and explained.

    Robert Pogson usage is valid by RMS. You have mixed up another term with one with -libre attached. Both terms by RMS himself.

  83. A doctorate is recognition of meeting the requirement as someone capable and accomplished in adding to human knowledge:
    Doctor
    “1. A teacher; one skilled in a profession, or branch of
    knowledge; a learned man. [Obs.]
    [1913 Webster]

    One of the doctors of Italy, Nicholas Macciavel. —
    Bacon.
    [1913 Webster]

    2. An academical title, originally meaning a man so well
    versed in his department as to be qualified to teach it.
    Hence: One who has taken the highest degree conferred by a
    university or college, or has received a diploma of the
    highest degree; as, a doctor of divinity, of law, of
    medicine, of music, or of philosophy. Such diplomas may
    confer an honorary title only.
    [1913 Webster]”

    RMS has a bunch of doctorates in this list. They are from North America, South America and Europe by a quick glance. Certainly more widely than a couple of places in Europe. I expect any university would benefit by having him teach but they might find him a bit difficult at times.

  84. Clarence Moon says:

    not approved by Dr. Richard Stallman

    “Dr”? Tut. Mr. Pogson apparently has a higher real degree than Stallman, who got a BS in Physics from Harvard and flunked out of MIT grad school in EE, passing not one lone course. He got some honorary degrees from various places in Europe due to the socialist audacity of his program, but nothing to qualify him as “Dr” for real.

    Bill Gates has gotten them, too, and is even a Knight in the UK. Call him “Sir Doctor” why don’t you?

  85. Viktor says:

    No, it’s not. As long as Ubuntu includes non-free software, it’s not really a GNU/Linux in the eyes of Dr. Richard Stallman. And he’s absolutely right. Only completely free distributions should be allowed to use the term GNU/Linux. Otherwise GNU becomes tainted. Dr. Richard Stallman was in fact so infuriated by Mr. Pogson calling Ubuntu “Ubuntu GNU/Linux” that he fell ill at a conference in Spain and had to be taken to the hospital.

  86. oiaohm says:

    Viktor
    http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html
    Yes its on gnu.org as well. So there is no question that Mr Pogson is right and you are wrong.

    I think you might have been referring to the head of Ubuntu who takes a different point of view who has no respect for upstream.

  87. oiaohm says:

    Viktor what being a prick and a idiot in one move.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy By Dr. Richard Stallman what Mr Pogson said is 100 percent right. It contains a GNU userspace so its GNU/Linux

    Ok who else are you going to quote wrong.

  88. Viktor says:

    This is in fact a common misconception, Mr. Pogson, but it’s just: “Ubuntu”, not “Ubuntu GNU/Linux”. Ubuntu is not approved by Dr. Richard Stallman, therefore you have no right calling it “Ubuntu GNU/Linux”.

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