Oracle Has Run Aground in Oracle v Google

Judge Alsup has made some rulings. The consequences are substantial for Oracle v Google/Android/World.

  1. The judge will not set a date for trial until Oracle revises its damage-caculation. Twice an unreasonable sum has been presented with no good legal basis. For this “delay,” Oracle has no one to blame but itself, given that twice now it has advanced improper methodologies obviously calculated to reach stratospheric numbers.
  2. Debate over an e-mail claimed privileged by attorney-client relationships has spilled over into an appeal which will have to be dealt with before trial or the trial risks being appealled.

Now, delay may be what Oracle wants as Oracle tries to spread FUD about Android/Linux but according to sales of Android/Linux devices, that’s not working. Oracle thus needs to tax Android and for that needs the matter to go to trial. Further, the delay threatens more of Oracle’s patents which have been thrown out on review by USPTO. The more delay, the more patents will be reviewed.

So, Larry Ellison’s dreams of bullying Google over Android have become a nightmare which is at best embarrassing and at worst an expensive disaster. The trial may end up costing far more than the “damages”. Of course, Oracle can afford it but the long-term effects will be that Oracle will be seen an unreliable partner in anything. On top of other moves to change the relationship with the FLOSS community, Oracle has earned a lot of bad will. I, for instance, am committed to producing future database projects with Postgresql. I tried it out seriously with webstats and find it different from MySQL but very easy to use. With a little practice, I won’t miss MySQL at all. I’ve already switched to LibreOffice and I likely never will use Oracle’s database.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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23 Responses to Oracle Has Run Aground in Oracle v Google

  1. Dr Loser says:

    @Ivan

    Ta. WallOfGibberish(TM) has now gone Official.

  2. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    “There are lots of Libraries under Linux that do maintain a perfectly stable ABI’s.”

    But not all of them. And it isn’t mandated.

    “Linux standard base defines the ones you should use as a closed source developer.”

    But practically nobody pays attention. The LSB is not mandated. And where on earth does “closed source” come into this? And if I write my closed (or otherwise) source application against one of these libraries and discover that the actual library in use on Debian or Ubuntu or Mint or CentOS has a totally different interface, where does this leave me?

    Screwed by the system, as usual.

    “Just as the Linux userspace ABI on the kernel defines what ABI is trustable to a kernel developer.”

    For kernel version 2.x.y.z, yes.

    How very useful that is. I must remember to write Mr Torvalds a nice thankyou note.

  3. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    I am beginning to appreciate the Deep and Inherent Beauty in your “use cases.”

    “Dr Loser dependency hell still happens in Windows 7 when it does its very impressive. SXS update can set it off perfectly. Install programs with two files marked the same info for SXS but be different binaries still sends Windows 7 to complete hell of broken applications.”

    This is rather like removing the safety mechanism from a chain-saw and then complaining when it hacks your arm off. Why on earth would anybody do this?

    Incidentally, if you log in to Linux as root and replace ‘ls’ with ‘rm’ you will find equally puzzling and occasionally disastrous behaviour. Bad, bad operating system!

    “Of course you love to forget the fact Dr Loser that boost libraries are cross platform.”

    Let me see if I have this right. I am allowed to introduce an entirely new topic, say the fact that Hans Reiser killed his wife. This topic has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand, say Linux file systems. The person I am arguing against may know nothing about the topic. I can now say:

    “Of course you love to forget the fact oiaohm that Hans Reiser killed his wife.”

    In this way I can refute the notion that Linux filesystems are stable.

    Now, sane people do not do this. Why do you?

    Incidentally I am a C++ programmer and I am fully aware of Boost libraries. Have you been having problems with them recently? I have never seen them myself, but then I work mostly with Windows these days.

    I can help you for my usual fee, though.

  4. Dr Loser says:

    @Robert:

    “Nothing prevents a user downloading OpenOffice.org from Apache except that Apache has not made any releases… They can still get the obsolete versions…”

    I think I will leave that to speak, eloquently, for itself.

  5. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    One of the reasons that sarcasm has no place with you, oiaohm, is apparently that you are incapable of recognising it when it stares you in the face.

    I’ll admit that I over-use it, and I’ll admit that it’s not necessarily an attractive trait of mine.

    But a complete inability to recognise fairly obvious sarcasm bespeaks a mind sadly lacking in humour (not wit: humour). Lighten up a bit. You might even enjoy yourself, once in a while.

  6. oiaohm says:

    Ivan You can force version to install the older version. http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/openoffice.org Debian is nice that way.

    (without explaining how to receive timely security updates). Please note that is a secuirty update for a flaw found in that version. Since openoffice is part of squeeze it will be updated as part of updating the stable branch. Since it was there when stable was branched they cannot pull it.

    Failure to understand branches Ivan.

    Debian stopped packaging Openoffice for sid and testing when it become unmaintained mostly so secuirty could be ensured so reduced into maintenance care only. Manual downloaded Openoffice debs from openoffice.org also still install perfectly. No conflict.

    Choice was never removed from the user Ivan. The distribution recommendation is just not todo it is the redirect. Can user choose to resist this yes.

    Even you admit apt pinning is an option. Of course you forget stable has a secuirty repo and secuirty team to look after all packages contained in the stable version.

    Dr Loser dependency hell still happens in Windows 7 when it does its very impressive. SXS update can set it off perfectly. Install programs with two files marked the same info for SXS but be different binaries still sends Windows 7 to complete hell of broken applications.

    Lets just pretend problem does not exist any more is your solution Dr Loser.

    Windows 7 management is no better than LSB management of the issue. Dependency hell is avoidable on Linux and Windows.

    Main goal of the Linux packaging system is to keep the installed system as small as able.

    Dependancy hell in Linux happens about as often as dependency hell happens on Windows 7 if dealing with proper made packages. Most of the reason cases came from groups using the boost libraries.

    Of course you love to forget the fact Dr Loser that boost libraries are cross platform. On Windows and Mac users of them sanely shipped there applications with private copies. Could they ship private copies on Linux yes. But some closed source makers like amazon did not on Linux. Some did applications that shipped with own copies of the unstable abi parts had no issues.

    There are lots of Libraries under Linux that do maintain a perfectly stable ABI’s. Linux standard base defines the ones you should use as a closed source developer. Just as the Linux userspace ABI on the kernel defines what ABI is trustable to a kernel developer.

    Correctly packages applications work perfectly on Windows Linux and OS X. I can make up incorrectly packaged items for Windows that will completely ruin it as well. Applications failing due to Windows update do happen as well Dr Loser under Windows 7.

    Start pulling head out sand dependency hell is reduced in Vista and 7 compared to XP but it still there with teeth. Waiting to bite the unwary.

    Sarcasm has no place with me Dr Loser get use to it.

  7. Ivan, “This is a transitional package, replacing the OpenOffice.org packaging with the LibreOffice packaging.”

    Nothing prevents a user downloading OpenOffice.org from Apache except that Apache has not made any releases… They can still get the obsolete versions…

  8. Ivan says:

    @ Dr. Loser

    “Choice is freedom!”

    Ahh choice! What a wonderful illusion Debian users must have:

    http://packages.debian.org/sid/openoffice.org

    As you can see, the package openoffice.org will install libreoffice, effectively removing the choice from the user.

    Not that I care, mind you, but I am sure Mr. Ham will grace us with a wall of rambling gibberish that will explain how apt-pinning will give users the choice to use unsupported software in Debian (without explaining how to receive timely security updates).

  9. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    And back to LongPHPCodez(TM), unfortunately.

    “There are examples you could have pulled that would have had the issue for real.”

    If I gave a shit, then yes. Sadly for both of us, I was just making a bad joke.

    “It called dependency hell happens for real.”

    Indeed. Windows suffered from “dependency hell” between about 2000 and 2007 or so (longer, I guess, if you’re still using something pre-XP). Know why? Shared libraries. Windows found a (rather ugly and brittle, in my experienced opinion) temporary way around this, and as of Vista and Windows 7 it no longer exists.

    Linux? Nope, still stuck in self-inflicted non-ABI compatible non-API compatible shared library let me ldconfig that for you Hell.

    “There are ways around that but still no need for a false example at all Dr Loser.”

    It was a joke. Now, to get serious about this.

    What are your proposed ways around this? And how would Joe Six-pack implement them?

  10. Dr Loser says:

    @Clarence:

    I think a simpler explanation is that they have both been assimilated by the Borg.

    There might be a more general pattern here, though. It’s quite possible that a lot of the more extreme Linux advocates (funnily enough I except Robert from this observation: I’m not quite sure where he gets it from) were bullied when they were younger.

    In parlour psychology terms, this would explain both the need to cling, unquestioningly, to a father-substitute like FOSS, plus the tendency to hide in the shadows whilst flinging invective around and promising to “kick the ass” (Koz, (c)) of anybody who Offends The Greater Morality.

    As long as the ass in question is safely out of reach, of course.

    Yes, traumatic childhood rejection. That would explain a lot.

  11. Dr Loser says:

    (Prove by contrast, I should explain.)

  12. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    “Clarence Moon funny enough your assessment is wrong. There are more factors to the problems you raise. I do know the technical details.”

    Pursuant to my new role as Mr Nice Guy, may I ask to which of Clarence’s assessments you refer here?

    “Issue is just because there is a minor fault somewhere does not mean its major when put in proper context.”

    Whose issue? What fault? How minor? Where? Has anybody at all modulated “minor” into “major”? Which context? How so, proper?

    Well, I enjoyed being a part of the first five posts, poking gentle fun at Robert for his mildly po-faced assertion that Larry Ellison should beware of losing all that FOSS goodwill previously stacked up by Oracle. But now I suppose it’s back to the same dreary old insubstantial guff.

    On the positive side, a lot of these ill-written bits of pointless personal invective do go to prove that Robert is an exceptionally good writer (if a bit mad, and I suppose I should explain that I mean “eccentric” mad, not “clinically” mad).

  13. Dr Loser says:

    Sorry, Robert, I appear to have hit the permanent italics button again. Let’s hope this fixes it.

  14. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    “If you don’t do your homework don’t expect me to be nice basically. I am not paid by you to be a nice teacher to you.”

    I wouldn’t dream of paying you to teach me: you are entirely lacking in the ability to read and understand. It was sarcasm. I even pointed out that it was sarcasm in the Cliff notes, afterwards.

    “My level of response quality matches the level people are using.”

    That’s debatable, given (a) your utter inability to communicate in English (Old English anecdotes notwithstanding) and (b) the fact that almost every single one of your posts involves denigrating a previous poster based on supposed lack of intelligence, experience, or knowledge.

    Or, to put it another way, your “level of response” is remarkably consistent. It falls far short of reasoned debate or even basic courtesy. Even when comments are not directed at you (take my throwaway on Libre/OOo for example), you react with an unseemly rage.

    Look, I’m willing to accept at face value your assertion that you are a Linux expert, even possibly an expert in broader IT terms. Do you think we can proceed on this amicable basis?

  15. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser. “urge to explain things rationally and to give concrete ”

    Lets be simple here you are lacking that as well. Dr Loser. My level of response quality matches the level people are using. You were not giving concrete examples or backing yourself up rationally with this argument so why should I bother.

    The insult side is more annoyance at people making what I know is 100 percent myth based claims. If you don’t do your homework don’t expect me to be nice basically. I am not paid by you to be a nice teacher to you.

    Dr Loser with homework ““Of course, it will probably…” would not have been require. There are particular examples of known conflict combinations.

    Pulling something out of thin air just to make a point when its not true will annoy me no matter how you wrap it. There are examples you could have pulled that would have had the issue for real. It called dependency hell happens for real. There are ways around that but still no need for a false example at all Dr Loser.

    To be critical here a false example is worse than no example at all. So you are doing the less concrete examples than me. Please don’t throw stones while standing in a glass house your self Dr Loser its only how to get hurt. False examples are also a source of many myths.

    So if you are giving false examples you are a idiot people do need to know you are a idiot so they don’t start coping you false information. Dr Loser.

    My reaction are triggered. They are normally never unprovoked. Maybe you not seeing what you are doing that is provoking me.

    Clarence Moon funny enough your assessment is wrong. There are more factors to the problems you raise. I do know the technical details. Issue is just because there is a minor fault somewhere does not mean its major when put in proper context.

  16. Clarence Moon says:

    It is Mr. Koz who mostly relies on simple bluster, confusing childish taunts with showing disdain. Mr. Oiaohm mostly practices obfuscation, going off on miles-long tangents, trying to hide an embarassing point in a cloud of technical details.

    I have noticed a convergence between Mr. Koz and Mr. Bear, too, with the “Cult of Microsoft” references now coinciding along with their general lack of any real point in their display of attitude. Could they be the same person, posting under two user ids, or are they some sort of symbiote?

  17. Dr Loser says:

    @oiaohm:

    Grow a sense of sarcasm, will you? “Of course, it will probably…” is clearly not meant as a scientific prediction.

    I don’t know what it is with you and Koz, but for some reason the urge to explain things rationally and to give concrete examples to back yourselves up seems pathetically weak. The desire to lash out with unprovoked insults is correspondingly overpowering.

    Were you bullied a lot when you were a child?

  18. oiaohm says:

    Dr Loser openoffice and libreoffice in debian install side by system without issue. I know because I am still running in that configuration.

    Basically you doing a good enough job proving you are idiot Dr Loser.

  19. Dr Loser says:

    What, no Wall’O’Text?

    I’m missing you already, oiaohm.

  20. Dr Loser says:

    @Ivan:

    Not at all!

    Choice is freedom!

    sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install openoffice.org

    Of course, it will probably bork everything else in your Debian installation, but that’s just the price you have to pay for being a salmon who is determined to swim downstream.

    Or is it upstream? Neither set of the fools shows any evidence that they know how to do this stuff.

  21. Ivan says:

    “I’ve already switched to LibreOffice”

    Mazel tov!

    Wait a minute, wasn’t that decision made for you by Debian which was already using the patches that made the ‘fork’ of OpenOffice.org?

  22. Dr Loser says:

    And in related news, lovers of Free and Open Software the world over are falling over themselves to spite their faces.

    “I was a long-standing fan of the FSF Eyeball Donation strategy,” said a Mr Oedipus from Greece. “Freedom depends upon eyeballs, obviously. But with this festering new horror that Ellison is unleashing upon the Free World, it was obviously time to cut my nose off as well.

    “My face will thank me for it eventually.”

    In related news, a shocked and horrified Larry Ellison admitted that sales of MySQL in Manitoba had recently plunged to their lowest ever annual gross of $0.

    “Of course,” said Mr Ellison, “even in the good times, we only managed $0. I guess it all evens out, really.”

  23. Clarence Moon says:

    That will surely teach them to be more open and less contentious in the future, Mr. Pogson!

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