Operating Systems Matter More Than Ever

I am old. I can remember the days when we did not have operating systems but stand-alone applications dealing directly with devices. Operating Systems were a huge improvement because the hardware parts were dealt with locally and the applications could be globally independent of platform.

SJVN has written on this topic, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols: Operating systems don’t matter much anymore, and he makes a lot of good points. One he misses however is that people still need and want small cheap computers and having huge RAM running two or more virtual machines is not small and it’s not cheap. The “proprietary” part kills that:

  • that other OS charges a hefty licence per machine,
  • MacOS requires Apple hardware underneath (licensing requirement), and
  • some virtualization software still costs a bundle

Cloud stuff adds a new wrinkle. Any OS with a browser may do the bulk of the work sooner or later.

It still matters what the OS is underneath for all of this:

  • GNU/Linux can run the desktop, servers, virtualization and cloud stuff all at once for zero licensing cost, and
  • last time I checked, GNU/Linux can run a browser.

I recommend Debian GNU/Linux because it gives the greatest flexibility in an OS. Everything else considered equal, the world and individuals and organizations in it are better off running the most efficient, effective and reliable OS. If consumers lack the skills to decipher that OEMs, retailers and ISVs will have to figure that out. It’s happening. M$’s share constantly sinks while competing technologies jostle for starting positions. The market will sort it all out and in the long run those non-free technologies will take a back seat to robust and flexible computing that’s economical. That will be a Free Software OS as far as I can see. The world does not owe giant corporations with onerous EULAs a living.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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30 Responses to Operating Systems Matter More Than Ever

  1. oldman says:

    “because people are not going to aware of the pit of hell they are going to let lose when they alter the global profiles.”

    Do you think you are the only one who has noticed the effect of global profiles? I had known about them for some time. I have my own set of extensions that I work with that go under global profile. They are on my station accessable only to me and changeable only by me. In a production environment the global profile just becomes one more configuration point to be standardized or managed and access controlled. I fact, I’ll bet that you already do so with your favorite configuration manager tool.

    If this is done, IMHO the risk is mitigated.
    And that, and not your IMHO absolutist security posture, is what counts for most powershell users and their management.

    “Powershell simply disregards history. What should I expect who thought it was a good idea to allow exe to run directly from a email client without asking user permission”

    To be perfectly blunt – who cares!

    Nothing that you have said is going to change the reality Powershell is one of the major tools available in the windows arsenal. If you can get your work done using the Linux oriented tools that you force fit into a windows environment, knock your socks off. But if as you have already acknowledged, if Microsoft makes it difficult to continue without using powershell then you will be using powershell.

  2. oiaohm says:

    RealIT when it comes to a historic shell design flaw Powershell and bash are completely identical at one point in history.

    You create a script you run it the global profile file applies causing your script todo something you did not expect.

    “You keep comparing bash to powershell and yet they are nowhere near the same in how they work and the funtions they enable.”
    Basically you are a moron. Because you don’t understand that there is a historic design flaw that existed before bash it existed in the first posix shell.

    Lot of those extra functions of powershell are very much just like bash alias on overdrive. The stuff you can turn into commands in bash using alias are very impressive.

    Bytecode and direct dll access stuff is also many times worse since this allows stuff to run and appear to the the powershell process instead of properly independent. So if something threads off and keeps on running it could be a bit hard to spot. Serous-ally I don’t think very much about the powershell design.

    If powershell was a scripting language only without a global configuration file. I would have zero issue with it RealIT. Since each script would be it own process.

    There are reasons why posix shells don’t let you run like .so or .class files inside the shell process even are restrictive how you can thread.

    Have all posix shells had these limitations no they have not. Lot of posix shells are no more due to being secuirty nightmares. Posix has the wisdom.

    This is the tree backwards Powershell copied faults from cmd that copied it from command.com that copied it from cp/m shell operation that copied it from posix shells. Yes you are using a very distance descendent of the posix shells. Bash and Powershell are both from the same tree of development just different branches they do share some common bugs.

    Part way threw that tree command.com and cmd both lacked means to alias. That was reintroduced with doskey. But you could find and kill doskey so restoring expected function.

    Guess what functionality Powershell has expanded in a stupid way. Means to alter the command user types in to do something completely different to what they expect.

    /alias in a Posix shell will show you what kind of overrides are in place. There is no equal in power-shell than cannot be override. Early bash lacked the / option as well and it had to be added as a critical after feature.

    Lack of that one feature makes Powershell secuirty crap.

    Simple point here I know the bugs in powershell from a secuirty point of view and can kick your head in on them. Not going to be simple be owned.

    You are the twit who is simple to own RealIT. I guess you did not know that bash and powershell are in fact relations. So I am just comparing blood to blood.

    RealIT
    “Then why are you using Linux?”

    Shock horror my Linux systems are highly templated by cfengine. Configure once deploy many. cfengine does not care what unix, bsd or Linux I am using for lots of templates.

    Simple fact when design a command line shell the rules don’t change RealIT. Unix and Posix has been doing it longer they have the history of what you should and should not do in a shell if you want it safe.

    Powershell simply disregards history. What should I expect who thought it was a good idea to allow exe to run directly from a email client without asking user permission.

  3. RealIT says:

    “Basically I see powershell as something created by a idiot who did not understand bash or watch that Linux and Unix world has been trying to get rid of shell script scripting from anything critical to administration.”

    “Most Linux administrators have already faced the bad side of Powershell design with bash.” You keep comparing bash to powershell and yet they are nowhere near the same in how they work and the funtions they enable. Most Linux admins have no clue how to use Windows effectively and you are a case in point.

    You remind me of this article on ZDNET, http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/the-open-source-revolution-10014902/limitations-of-windows-powershell-vs-linux-sshbash-10018633/. Pity the author got owned in the comments by people who know what they are talking about. You are heding that way quickly.

  4. RealIT says:

    @oiaohm said “I am not going to be using something where just because I have to configure something I got to basically stand on my head because that is the only way the software will work.”

    Then why are you using Linux?

    The prosecution rests its case.

  5. oiaohm says:

    oldman powershell one day will blow your feet off. When I was new to Linux I was over using bash. Until the day I altered a global profile and basically destroyed the complete install.

    Most Linux administrators have already faced the bad side of Powershell design with bash. So we are not going to like it. MS was pushing it as something the Unix/Linux people would love. But the feature they copied with loath about Linux and Unix.

    Basically I see powershell as something created by a idiot who did not understand bash or watch that Linux and Unix world has been trying to get rid of shell script scripting from anything critical to administration. This reaction in the posix world to shell scripting comes from the issues that happen.

    Give you 10 years using something full time with the issue and you normally have a experience of O hell this should not be. Global profiles and scripting don’t mix safely. Should never mix if you can avoid it. As soon as you mix those two you have created a item that is going to be hell question is when not if.

  6. oiaohm says:

    oldman. Really the thing is if I want scripting to control something. The key thing I am after is independence.

    Anyone with a secuirty background does not use bash for system management were it can be avoided. This is why systemd in the Linux world is seen as a god send. It removing a evil mistake that never should been done.

    Lets say MS split powershell cleanly in two. Scripting system highly powerful no global profile apply. And something many times more limited.

    Its the global profile that will bring you under done oldman. You will run a script someone has tweeked the global profile your script now does not do what you expected it to.

    Shells and scripting should be split. Due to the fact powershell is not split you are creating land mines.

    The dominance of ruby python and perl in Linux administration work is to get away from the nightmare bash is. Not that the scripts cannot be writing in bash. Bash is highly powerful scripting langauge. Its the issues you can have out of left field because someone added an alias to global profile or user profile causing your script todo something you did not expect.

    Powershell is basically pulling windows back into what 20+ year old Unix designs were.

    20+ years a highly powerful scripting language in shell looked like a brilliant idea to the posix world as well.

    oldman it the lesson of history. MS is repeating the mistake.

    As a unit I have big problems with Powershell design same problems I have with bash.

    I guess you have not noticed that most high level Linux people avoid coding in bash where they can oldman. True case of you should not.

    I can understand why people with your kind of background have not learnt the lesson of don’t use command line language for scripting.

    Lot of people hate python for its insistence on perfect formatting. To be correct this has upsides for administration at least when you are debugging everything is readable.

    Simple problem oldman I am not alone in my point of view that powershell is crap and a secuirty and stability risk because people are not going to aware of the pit of hell they are going to let lose when they alter the global profiles.

    You make out its good people I work with most likely will never tolerate power-shell just on why increase risk of issues without valid reasons. Yes to consider using powershell in production risk assessment was required. It has failed completely to be used as a scripting language.

  7. oldman says:

    “I find it completely non productive. ”

    That is your opinion. I personally have found it quite useful, especially. tools Like PowerGui allow me to do visual studio style debugging. I especially like the ability to be able to pull complex information with a few commands.

    In contrast the admittedly limited exposure that I have had with Python was enough to make me want to take out a contract on Guido van Rossum for springing IMHO this abortion on the world!

    I however do recognize that I am in a minority in my opinion of python. I hope that you realize you are in the same position in regards to powershell IMHO.

  8. oiaohm says:

    oldman I have used powershell. I completely hate it.

    I find it completely non productive. Items I can do on python cleanly I can check right down to the raw settings set to the server. And even better those work on what ever.

    Lot of what I see done in Powershell for templating systems is better severed by cfengine.

    Report extraction there are other better ways.

    Basic user interface of Powershell itself not that practical. The modules idea changing the command line on off I want to shot who ever came up this idea. One of the third party modules that is other there over rides exit. So instead exiting powershell to shutdown the server. Someone found this as a prank. At this point I came very aware it has a issue.

    Oldman it because I did attempt using it that I have complete zero trust of it. Nice fact about powershell that is a nice design flaw that could drive you nice and completely up wall is that you can have powershell globally load a addon module. How can you say root kit shell.

    This is why powershell means to load closed source modules has me so worried. Makes auditing it so many times harder.

    Basically give me bash, give me fishshell, give me cmd, at least I know where I stand and cannot be land mined by a module that I cannot work around. I have enough places for a OS to be rootkitted without a shell providing another location.

    I guess you never thought to check if you could trigger modules to load globally for Powershell. Now if lets say one of you scripts depends on a module that is incompatible with what is autoloading. You could be in complete hell.

    You cannot see into the module to see that these two modules are in fact overlapping so causing the random errors you are suffering from.

    Yes it possible to load to incompatible modules at the same time from different third party vendors as well.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb613488%28VS.85%29.aspx

    Yes profile configuration. Yes nice super powerful shell with a global configuration file that could ruin your day.

    Add on loading net assemblies as powershell supports and running said assemblies you have a nice virus that can do what ever it likes monitoring everything you do and even rewriting your commands. This is a critical reason why scripting language in shell should be limited. Shell scripting should not be able to use dll and other things to alter operation in particular ways.

    Linux setup is correct. You have highly powerfull Languages like python and perl then you have the shell. Shell has to be crappy to a point. If it not crappy to a point is not secure plan and simple.

    oldman those script you do in powershell if someone tweaks the global profile they can be busted as well so make sure you use -NoProfile to run them. Yes fun of fun that is case sensitive. At this point simpler to run something like python or vbscript or jscript that is not auto going to run a profile and not likely to blow feet off because you forgot to run it -NoProfile.

    bash global load profile is powerful. alias can make quite a mess. But bash has a fail safe. \ The slash before a command disables all alias processing. Yes bash can be mutated quite badly by alias. So even if you have something loaded by bash profile you can take back the system without having to run the shell special with a –noprofile –norc flag set.

    Powershell the coders never designed in a proper take back system path. Yes that \ applies to fishshell and most other posix shells as well.

    MS has copies the worse secuirty section of bash and made it worse.

    Please beware the \ to disable alias in posix shells goes back to stopping one of the first worms to infect Unix.

    This is why when design shells it is important to know history. MS never had enough history people when they designed powershell so they have brought mistakes back that should be no more. I expect at some point unless MS correct it to see powershell viruses and malware.

  9. oldman says:

    “Powershell is a pig. Same mistake allowing binary modules by third parties in a configuration system equals not being able to make it work where you want it to work.”

    Have you actually USED powershell in any substantial way, or are you just talking in theory.

  10. oiaohm says:

    oldman too much MS doc reading not enough vmware, citrix, and Netapp reading.

    Yes vmware citrix and netapp provided powershell interfaces. They also maintain as there management consoles java and python based solutions.

    I have kept up with the technical publications on the topic and I can tell you now that are are screwed.

    “imbedded GUI dependencies”, Both citrix and netapp powershell interfaces contain GUI dependencies. So removing it from core powershell that stuff is still not functional properly remote.

    Powershell is a pig. Same mistake allowing binary modules by third parties in a configuration system equals not being able to make it work where you want it to work.

    Powershell is junk I most likely will not be using it in large volumes since configuration management software does a better job and works remote without issues. I am not going to be using something where just because I have to configure something I got to basically stand on my head because that is the only way the software will work.

    So far Powershell has not in any MS documentation talked about addressing the third party module issues limiting configuration location.

    Configuration by secrets is a bad place to be oldman.

  11. oldman says:

    “There are particular settings in windows 2008 that to set them correctly the only MS documented way is Powershell. This is not suitable. Powershell is a crap of a idea that makes everything more crap”

    It seems to me that expressing such sentiments is pointless Mr. oiaohm. Whether you like it or not, powershell is a (for now) strategic component in Microsoft server administration toolkit. If you have been keeping up with microsoft technical publications, you know that microsoft is only going to increase the instrumentality behind it. And with major commercial vendors like vmware, citrix, and Netapp embracing powershell as a quick way to provide scripting for their products, its presence in your world is only going to grow.

    The only thing holding back powershell is the fact that it currently cant run on windows 2008 core services. But one the .NET is refactored to remove the imbedded GUI dependencies. It will be a tool that you get increasingly to deal with as part of your job maintaining windows servers.

  12. Kozmcrae says:

    “See, powershell know best.

    Better yet, see the original powershell was copied after.

  13. oiaohm says:

    RealIT
    “LIES! I have a shitty 4 year old Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player and it plays everything. And Samsung makes shitty products. Look at the Galaxy range of phones.”
    People have had to replace those in the Asian region disks don’t play on them that have fancy Live interfaces to allow access to the media Yes second level DRM evil. Just luck that it still works with everything you have RealIT.

    Put you head in your sand as much as you like. I state the true facts of Blu-ray. The true facts is you have no promise that you player will play stuff.

    RealIT
    “So I should just throw away my AD domain polices that install printers based on their VLAN-ID on specific floors of the building and manually start assigning users to 40+ printers and whether they should have colour prints too?”
    Windows 7 and Vista supports printing to cups in everything bar starter out box. By LPR protocol that Cups uses as it prime protocal.

    Yes cups can block users on LPR based on there ADS login. The issue is not ADS is that windows machines cannot host there own cups or equal LPR servers that are out the box AD managed. So yes your AD domian polices for windows 7 and vista work with cups. XP is a little messy but it also works.

    Basically I wish MS would give up on the SMB based print protocol the thing is problematic by design.

    Design process data a client send to server for direct printer output. When you have a dumb printer this fails. Reason server must directly control the printer. Next you need to send different drivers to each machine. LPR does not require different drivers at each machine the network format is either postscript or pdf with PPD files that list what commands printer obeys. PPD is part of postscript standard.

    Processing to printer own language is done at where the printer is connected. This suites dumb brainless printers that depend on connected computers cpu to work ie cheap.

    Even a option to turn windows printer into a virtual postscript/pdf printer in SMB would be assistance for those printers that drivers are not network able due to in processing needing to talk to printer to find out like where in heck is the print head. Yes some printers are in fact that dumb. Even dumber in fact you can give them instructions to drive there printed at full force into the side of the machine repeatedly so effectively jack hammer themselves of the table they are sitting on even that they are brand new and the end stop detectors work. Why they are depending on the computer to tell the printer to stop the print head from running.

    cups + printer works around a design limitation/fault in the windows network printing system. LPR was design when printers were true idiots. Even today companies still make printers that are true idiots. SMB protocal by IBM had the idea that printers with age would grow up and always have a cpu in them. Not going to happen we have to deal with reality.

    “Typical Linux fanboi overhyped crap. All the functionality of a printer is in the driver, whether locally or network installed since the driver is pushed to your workstation from the print server. Oh and there are no “high end” drivers.”

    HP has what they call High end and Low end drivers for Windows. Low end are functionally crippled. Cannon and other printer makers do the same. I am using what printer makers call there grades of drivers. Of course I don’t expect a windows tech to know this because you would not rub shoulders with them at a Linux conference. Yes I have directly spoke to people who make your Windows drivers. Yes horrid they are Linux users yep they have no worries about ripping your windows users off.

    RealIT you are a normal person who has never truly had time with the people who make your stuff. I have and I really enjoy it.

    RealIT
    “So CUPS will give me binding, stapling, tray sorting, pin based printing and costing?”
    Windows fan boy. You reality you buy a HP printer has all that functionality bar costing does not have a network port only a USB port and it will not print over network using Windows Drivers. Hook up Linux box and magic of magic it works perfectly fine on network as a cups supported printer provide to the network by LPR or as a Windows postscript printer.

    Yes costing can be enabled on any printer under cups this is because the print processing is all at one location.

    There is a at times a 300 dollar difference between the printer with network port that use high end driver and printer with usb port that lose low end driver. Also the low end driver is missing lot of the multi pages to a page and water mark functionality and costing. Gets even worst that the 300 dollars is a upgrade card you insert in the printer. Its the same printer two different functionality levels all because of drivers.

    This is the reality of the printer world. Really should the fact you connect to the same printer by network and usb you have two different functionality levels. This should not be the case.

    “Really? So the 512 TB of ram, 8 hexa bytes of storage and 2048 CPU’s cost more than Windows HPC?”
    Windows HPC on that is about 1/3 of the cost again. So for same money Linux spending the HPC software cost on hardware you have a 2730 CPU size server. Size counts in HPC processing. This is the problem in supers its the larger the better. Also due Windows HPC lacking the support to do motherboard interconnects you need more cpus to get same performance. Yes you can build a super on MS tech but its really wasting money. Linux would do that 2048 system as 2 systems non clusters min due to motherboard interconnects.

    “Including the networking infrastucture, fibre, CAT 5/6” Basically what network infrastructure that is right you are thinking Windows HPC. For a Linux super 2048 cpu is not a super that is a server at most 2 servers. Of course that is the other problem with Windows HPC you are looking at a lot of extra network hardware to get the job done.

    Basically you are really what a moron. 2048 cpus will not get you on the TOP 500 list. You are not really a super.

    SGI Altix systems for Linux you can buy 1024 cpu servers off shelf. Why have extra complexity of more network switches. Even that they are x86 machines no Windows operating system installs on them. Yes they are quad core. So 4096 cores inside. The 64 limit of Windows HPC is very crap means it does not work on the nice price effective hardware to build super out of. Yes you are spending more on hardware and OS going the Windows HPC path.

    Most in a single server ever done as a super module is 16 384 cores. But that is normally insanity.

    RealIT
    “If they did that they would have something along the lines of cmd.exe. You know, a front-end for running command line tools, kinda exactly what fishshell does.”
    And the point is microsoft don’t. I could write the same script you did in bash, jscript on windows vbs script on windows. Yes cmd suxed power users like me already had our ways around its limitations.

    Powershell is not simpler to use really does not provide any extra functionality other than attempt to be a bash look like based on .net that some idiot tried to merge a complex scripting language into. Idea was to make us Linux people like windows more. We don’t.

    I want complex scripting under Linux I use python or perl. I want complex scripting under Windows I would just use jscript or vbscript. But you don’t need that bloat all the time for processing a complex scripting language.

    There are reasons why python or perl is not used as shell on Linux. Note you can. They will work a shells. Too much complexity when not required. Bash is running a very fine line. Between complex enough todo the job and too complex todo the job. Powershell crossed straight over into too complex to do the job.

    When you get to major requirement for automation you should be looking at configuration management anyhow so be leaving shell space. Also MS configuration management has to be upgraded by third parties to become fully decent.

    Microsoft has a lot they need to work on to assist administrators and powershell was not it.

    Yes that one it don’t use external exes. There are downsides to the selection just as much as upsides. Secuirty is a downside of all in one. Lets say a function in powershell is defective how are you going to remove it.

    I have a defect in bash there are other shells I can swap to. Its not the only way I have todo things. There are particular settings in windows 2008 that to set them correctly the only MS documented way is Powershell. This is not suitable. Powershell is a crap of a idea that makes everything more crap.

  14. RealIT says:

    “That you buy a blueray player and a random blueray movie and you have no promise if the player not a PS3 that it will be able to play it even with the latest firmware update for that BD player installed.”
    LIES! I have a shitty 4 year old Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player and it plays everything. And Samsung makes shitty products. Look at the Galaxy range of phones.

    “Really MS would make it so much simpler if they just gave up there old printing system and followed everyone else.” So I should just throw away my AD domain polices that install printers based on their VLAN-ID on specific floors of the building and manually start assigning users to 40+ printers and whether they should have colour prints too?

    “Ie cheep HP printers functionally equal to expensive high end HP network printers in some cases.” Bullshit and u know it. So CUPS will give me binding, stapling, tray sorting, pin based printing and costing? Typical Linux fanboi overhyped crap. All the functionality of a printer is in the driver, whether locally or network installed since the driver is pushed to your workstation from the print server. Oh and there are no “high end” drivers. More common cheap linux FUD.
    In fact if you Linux programmers spent less time bitching about everyone who’s better than you, you’d have an OS that wasnt broke all the time and fragmented and incompatable.

    “I am a Microsoft registered partner selling Microsoft products to businesses and education.” Ha ha whatever. No way would an educational institution buy from you. Those people are usually “smart”.

    “You build a super out of this you are looking down the barrel of one heck of a bill. Reason why windows supers are so rare is how much the OS bill is.” Really? So the 512 TB of ram, 8 hexa bytes of storage and 2048 CPU’s cost more than Windows HPC? Including the networking infrastucture, fibre, CAT 5/6, The server room, cooling, power, staff bla bla bla. Oh but Linux is free and so is the infrastructure. Whatever moron.

    “Remember is not the most powerful shell here that is import. It is what is the most usable shell for joe newbie. Bash, Powershell and CMD all sux for that job.” No, for the newbie Windows has something functional called “Explorer”. It’s the kinda thing KDE and GNOME are trying to copy, rather unsuccessfully from Windows 2.0.

    “Powershell is what you get when a Geek attempts to design a shell to out do bash. Really MS please go and look at fishshell and make something to out do that.” If they did that they would have something along the lines of cmd.exe. You know, a front-end for running command line tools, kinda exactly what fishshell does. Except powershell does not rely on .exe’s to do stuff. Oh, and you know Powershell is aimed at techies but you were trying to sound clever there.

    $oiaohm = get-fact | {$_.bullshit -neq $true}
    foreach ($lie in $oiaohm)
    {
    write-host “I tell lies, I’m going to hell”
    }
    See, powershell know best.

  15. oiaohm says:

    The nice touch of course was having a fax machine on the office desk print out message yes everyone you are all fired in the middle of the meeting.

  16. oiaohm says:

    toosleep77 a way to avoid seeing the crying is a promotion head of a department that will be closed the next week due to being no longer required. Yes then they have to break the news to all the other staff in that department that they are not required. So avoiding seeing the crying particularly when its in a different city to were you are at the time. Mind you they most likely cry darn badly.

    Yes create a you are fired department and send everyone there who will be fired and have them fire themselves. Yes I have created a department with only department heads and had them fire each other at the same meeting. Each of them thought they were going to get transferred out. All of them knew something was up the the department had no budget for next quarter.

    This is the kind of stuff RealIT has to look forward to with is his attitude.

  17. Kozmcrae says:

    RealIT isn’t supposed to be taken seriously. You can dismiss him/her without comment.

  18. toosleep77 says:

    Thank you RealIT, that made my week! You forgot that it’s also developed by unicorns and the axis of evil. While I may have enjoyed the last 9 years as a *NIX admin, I get real pleasure from getting together with the people from HR to find a way to can your ass without making you cry. Never seems to work out though. They always cry for some reason?

  19. oiaohm says:

    RealIT
    “Samsung, Sony, Philips etc all make dedicated BD players at a 1/4 or the price of a PS3. Adults buy PS3′s for their kids and BD players for their HT’s.”

    Reality none of them are the reference standard for blueray other than PS3. And from time to time you will be force to replace all of them to run particular disks. Including the sony ones. Its a really sick joke of blueray. That you buy a blueray player and a random blueray movie and you have no promise if the player not a PS3 that it will be able to play it even with the latest firmware update for that BD player installed.

    Yes its a complete sick joke that should not be reality. Sad part this is the reality.

    RealIT
    “If you say so. But Linux only has support for 9-pin dot-matrix printers on parallel ports. It’s a known fact you cant have colour prints on Linux because the console is black with white text. Thats why you see no output on white paper.”
    So HP network printers don’t print color???? Yes there are Hp network printers that are in fact Linux and Cups inside they also have WebOS control interfance. Yes they do print color. So what fake reality are you living in. Yes come to the real world cups server exists on Linux, OS X, all BSD OS’s, all Unix’s. and in Printers. So if Linux cannot print color neither can OS X or lots of printers that do.

    The only OS that does not use Cups for printing is Windows. So if cups cannot do color you are trying to say nothing other than Windows can printer color. Please try no pulling someones leg this stupid.

    Really MS would make it so much simpler if they just gave up there old printing system and followed everyone else. Complete unity of printing systems was achieved many years ago. Its now making MS come along for the ride kicking and screaming.

    RealIT
    “What new features can cups possibly bring to a printer?”
    Multi page to a page printing that cups provides by default and you only find in high end printer drivers on windows but its a default feature in cups system for all printers. There are more water marking options and many other things added as all printer defaults. Include some fun features like mirror image printing nice when you need to reflect something off a mirror and have it the right way. Basically a low end A4 printer that will work on cups will when provided to Windows machines by cups will have the same functions as a high end A4 network printer other than physical printing limits like color and result-ions. It also gets around the HP printers that are USB that will not print over network using windows drivers because they are trying to directly talk to printer from the remote computer. Yes HP produces a huge stack of USB printer drivers for Windows that will not operate over network then charge extra for the same printer with a network port inside so it has network printing support. Yes Windows users some companies love ripping you off. Intentionally broken so you will spend more. Linux supports all HP printers almost perfectly all the time. Cups is a cure to many problems caused by poor quality windows drivers and Intentionally crippled.

    Yes fitting a Linux box in between a cheep printer and windows machine is making it more like some of the more like expensive network printers out there. Ie cheep HP printers functionally equal to expensive high end HP network printers in some cases. Yes it can work out cheaper using a Linux box when you need 2 or more hp printers in one location than paying for the HP network versions of the same printer.

    “Do you know about Server Group A, B & C licensing? VLK’s? KMS or e-cals? What about MAK’s? Looked at MSDN or TechNet pricing? We will return to that point when you have done some research. Otherwise you look dumb in intelligent conversation.”
    In fact I do know all those. I am a Microsoft registered partner selling Microsoft products to businesses and education. MSDN and TechNET does not extend to supers that well. There is a volume acquirement limit to both MSDN and TechNET that you will most likely hit building a super with any decent grunt.

    e-cals what one please. Because if its Enterprise Cal’s that does not apply to HPC operating systems they don’t use cals they user server/motherboard licensing.

    MAK and KMS are activation tech have nothing todo with acquiring licenses only with using licenses.

    Basically for a so called RealIT you are a complete moron.

    We are talking supers we are talking volume in particular http://www.microsoft.com/hpc/en/us/product/system-requirements.aspx. I know this but the per CPU cost. It stuffs up at 64 cores. Compared to Linux 1024+ non clustered. How you might ask Linux supports using the interconnect cables between motherboards so a few 100 motherboard can in fact act as 1 huge motherboard.

    Yes 8 chips on a motherboard limit for best and 4 chips for standard. Having to pay difference prices per motherboard.

    Basically the OS cost is also fairly constant. Standard/4 is about equal to Enterprise/8.

    You build a super out of this you are looking down the barrel of one heck of a bill. Reason why windows supers are so rare is how much the OS bill is. Dr Loser basically cannot complain there is no valid reason other than not being prepared to pay the bill or unable to pay the bill why he does not have a Windows Super computer. I could send him a quote todo it. Yes I will build them for the stupid. Few hundred dollars per 8 physcal CPU’s very quickly adds up to costing you extra boards with extra 8 cpus on so for money spent a Windows super is less powerful that a Linux equal. Reason the Linux equal you spend more money on hardware less on software. Hardware is the grunt.

    fishshell unique feature that makes it one of the best shell ever for newbies is the fact it real time accesses the help information and displays it to the new users. New users normally don’t know what help to ask for Get-Help and man and other things is not that helpful to them. User using fishshell should never need to type a manual request command because the information about the command they just typed in before pressing enter will be displayed automatically.

    Powershell is not a newbie friendly shell. Best newbie friendly shell is fishshell. You were selling it as the best thing for a New user. Powershell simply is not. This shows you lack of skill RealIT.

    Powershell is what you get when a Geek attempts to design a shell to out do bash. Really MS please go and look at fishshell and make something to out do that.

    Remember is not the most powerful shell here that is import. It is what is the most usable shell for joe newbie. Bash, Powershell and CMD all sux for that job.

  20. RealIT says:

    @oiaohm Rubbish. So basically fishshell colours commands green, stores variables and has a history? You think that is even remotely comparable to Powershell? Fool, again you have no clue of what the other side is doing. We will return to that point when you have run Get-Help from Powershell ok.

    “Dr Loser 1 percent of supers run Windows. I guess its more the price tag that makes you stop. Per CPU pricing is quite expensive. So don’t you have the budget to afford windows super??”

    Do you know about Server Group A, B & C licensing? VLK’s? KMS or e-cals? What about MAK’s? Looked at MSDN or TechNet pricing? We will return to that point when you have done some research. Otherwise you look dumb in intelligent conversation.

    I’m happy that VLC can rip blu-rays. It’s only 20 steps to install VLC and makemkv. Excluding troubleshooting and forum grinding. Then 6-10 hours of compressing it to a .mkv. So worth it. Let me just pop that into my BD drive and watch.
    “Nothing fancy so far, no menus, BD-J or BD-Live++ crap.” You are so right. True to Linux you get nothing fancy, no menu’s or other features. Just plain crap. Playstation is a console. Samsung, Sony, Philips etc all make dedicated BD players at a 1/4 or the price of a PS3. Adults buy PS3’s for their kids and BD players for their HT’s.

    “The windows printer drivers are defective and throw up DEP errors all the time since the printers are over 12 months old the maker is no longer updating drivers.” If you say so. But Linux only has support for 9-pin dot-matrix printers on parallel ports. It’s a known fact you cant have colour prints on Linux because the console is black with white text. Thats why you see no output on white paper.

    “Also using the CUps server the printer grows a stack of new functionality it never had under Windows.” Will you suddenly get A3 prints on an A4 printer? What new features can cups possibly bring to a printer?

    @Pogson. Cherry picking problems? I would but I’d rather send you to bugs.launchpad.net and you can go through the list of other-worldly odd issues that could only manifest themselves on Linux.

  21. Budge says:

    I stopped reading when I got to “local Linux loony”
    From there on in, I assume you are Trolling.

  22. RealIT wrote, “I recommend Windows for everything. It has drivers for all your hardware,”

    HAHAHA! ROFL! Gasp! If that other OS had drivers for all your hardware we’d never read that folks had to chuck perfectly good hardware to upgrade that other OS.

    e.g. HP 1115 printer has no driver for Vista/”7″. There is a driver for GNU/Linux.

    HP cranks out many new printers every year and they are not about to create new drivers just because M$ says so. HP wants to sell you a new printer. That’s part of the “partnership” with M$.

  23. Clarence Moon says:

    Wow! From tongue in cheek to head up butt in one quick step!

  24. oiaohm says:

    “Prefer the command line? Windows gives you the most advanced command line tool ever in the form of Powershell.”

    Sorry no this is not true. Powershell is not the most advanced shell its no where near the simplest to use either. Simplest to use is http://fishshell.com/

    Of course I wish more distributions would provide that as a default.

    Dr Loser 1 percent of supers run Windows. I guess its more the price tag that makes you stop. Per CPU pricing is quite expensive. So don’t you have the budget to afford windows super??

    Boy RealIT sounds like a Apple loony of 1994.

    If fact there is no intel thunderbolt support for Windows either. Apple signed exclusive until middle of 2012. Linux is market down for proper support in 2012 ahead of Windows in fact.

    Blu-Ray Nice and annoying pain in but. Windows can refuse to rip Blu-ray to due DRM in Windows. Linux can rip Blu-Ray no problem and play back non encrypted Blu-Ray. Recently
    “VLC 1.2 will play Blu-Rays.
    Nothing fancy so far, no menus, BD-J or BD-Live++ crap.
    It will work with encrypted blu-ray and some encrypted blu-rays.”

    BD-J and BD-Live++ get interesting. BD-J only thing that runs that dependably is a Playstation 3. Because its officially the reference standard for it so sony can break BD-J how ever they see fit and everyone else has to copy. Yippy.

    And BD-Live++ has a habit of also not working under windows.

    Simple answer you want to play Blu-rays buy a Playstation 3. Forget windows Linux and everything else since nothing else will run Blu-rays 100 percent of the time like a Playstation 3 does.

    Yes people should be up in arms on Windows just as much as Linux about the state of Blu-ray support.

    Nice point about printers is I in fact run a cups server in a few places for the pure reason of running prints that no longer work under windows. These are fun. The windows printer drivers are defective and throw up DEP errors all the time since the printers are over 12 months old the maker is no longer updating drivers.

    Yes most printer support is in fact a Linux/OS X printer server + Windows. Also using the CUps server the printer grows a stack of new functionality it never had under Windows.

    Really come on Realit the reality is bad enough without jokes. Yes the truth is completely insane that you have to buy a Playstation 3 to dependably play all blue-ray discs.

  25. Dr Loser says:

    … and absolutely no sense of humor whatsoever.

  26. e79 says:

    @RealIT

    Looks like you still live in the 70s. I’m glad we don’t have minds like yours in the Linux Community. You’re obsolete as your ideas and P.O.V are.

    Welcome to the real world.

    e79

    Cheers

  27. Kozmcrae says:

    Careful with that RealIT, some people around here have hair triggers.

  28. Dr Loser says:

    Ooh, now you’ve gone and done it. (Whoever you are.)

    This thing about small machines, though, Robert. Who are the “people” who want them? You have yet to provide citations or references.

    Me, I’d like a supercomputer, but I refuse to buy one on principle. They don’t run Windows, you know.

  29. Someone says:

    That’s quite impressive, RealIT. You’ve just posted the most coherent, logical, and factually-based recommendation for Windows that I’ve ever heard.

  30. RealIT says:

    As a professional with a job, I recommend Windows for everything. It has drivers for all your hardware, leading edge technologies in operating systems, office productivity suites, applications and entertainment. Windows is on the razors edge with modern hardware and has built in, no-charge support for devices such as Blu-Ray, Thunderbolt, DirectX etc. Windows has 98% market share, the largest support library in the form of TechNet, the largest and most helpful support forums and is the most stable OS in the world.
    Windows also cuts out the confusion in selecting an OS because we know you dont really care as long as it can run Crysis and juggle some spreadsheets.
    Afraid of the command line? No worries. Windows lets you use an intuitive and professionally developed UI to make your tasks simpler. Prefer the command line? Windows gives you the most advanced command line tool ever in the form of Powershell.

    If you find that your local Linux loony is sending you death threats, formatted your drive into 3 oddly named partitions, and loaded up a bad clone Xerox PARC’s original concept UI(GNOME or KDE) then you have a Linux virus. Not to worry. Simply stick a Windows CD into your PC and all your problems are gone. And dont let the price scare you. You’re set for 5 years at least. Linux comes built in with problems because it is poorly coded by unemployed developers who can’t hold a job or follow standards.
    Linux is extremely confusing in it’s design and there is no support for it on the internet. Not even your Grandma can operate it. Linux has no games, no drivers, bad fonts and your printer wont work. Linux was has ties to communist countries and hates black people. Linux will also turn you pale, fat and make you write blog about fake statistics and mythical market declines.
    Linux will also only install on beige computers with mechanical keyboards and monochrome screens.

    NetStatisticsInc proved that 66% of Linux users are anti-social and 34% have homicidal tendencies. SkewdGraphs.net showed that Linux has 0.8% market share and Windows has 95%. Mac has the other 22%. FavourableLinuxBarGraph.org however says that Linux runs the 78% of internet services with Windows on 3% and Android the othe 4%. Looking at that it clearly shows that Windows lost dominant market share in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. Infact Windows doesn’t exist today so you should go out right now and buy a gorgeously crafted iMac 27″ with the slickest OS in the world. Or at least an iPad. Trust me, I’m from the internet.

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