Android/Linux is FLOSS

The code for Android 4.01 is in the process of being released. The synching of the git repository is underway. The release also includes all the history of Android, even HoneyComb (still untagged).

This should stimulate a flood of development for diverse devices which we have been awaiting for most of 2011. It’s a year ahead of “8” …

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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27 Responses to Android/Linux is FLOSS

  1. oiaohm says:

    Jan sorry sgo mistika is not even in the same level as Lightworks. Sad fact here by industry standards sgo mistika is crap.

    Yes editshare was using sgo mistika and there clients complained about it crappy function compared to sony vagas and lightworks.

    What is sgo mistika big mistake that is unforgivable. The bugger cannot audio mix or do audio effects synced to video worth a cracker.

    Blender internal NLE can at times best sgo mistika at producing results.

    Yes blenders internal NLE is the closest to a true pro NLE on Linux before Lightworks lands.

    Basically don’t insult me by quote stuff that is not to proper quality levels.

    “And it will remain to be seen, if Linux users are willing to pay up.”

    There is not a question here. They are the same community as blender they will for rights to encode in particular formats. These guys are more than willing to pay for Quality. Note editshare politely asked lightworks to port to Linux first. Failure to provide editshare just aquired them.

    Note a lot of production houses run alpha and beta versions of blender with there own private extentions.

    The production houses want Lightworks source code so they can expand on it. You don’t spend money to acquire a company to get the source code to get the second best.

    The amount editshare spent acquiring lightworks they could have taken sgo mistika whole as well. Quality of product is why editshare took lightworks not sgo mistika. Jan.

    You should have really asked the question first why did editshare not aquire sgo out right. It would have been a cheaper acquirement than lightworks and it already worked on Linux. So if it was just about a cheap NLE sgo would have been aquired.

  2. Jan says:

    “Lightworks is a case of high end Linux data processing for video companies Editshare needing a video editing software on Linux because that is what there customer keep on complain about. So they bought the best in the market out right. Of course Jan most likely want to pretend stuff like this is not going on either.”

    Oh my, what delusions! Linux users are clamoring for Lightworks because your precious free software community until now couldn’t get ANY decent video editor off the ground. And Lightworks for Linux is mostly wished for due to totally non-altruistic motives: getting a proven, high-end NLE for free (and by that I don’t refer to freedom). But guess what? Even with Lightworks features entangled by patents and proprietary technology will cost money! And it will remain to be seen, if Linux users are willing to pay up. (And please, for the sake of God, don’t counter by pointing to the Humble Indie Bundle.)

    Also, for the longest time there already has been a professional NLE for Linux:

    http://www.sgomistika.com/

    But we all know that most Linux users are cheapskates.

  3. Jan says:

    Yes, Frankfurter, but I’m very well aware of loons like you declaring this year the “Downfall of Microsoft” year. Every year. Year after year. If that’s not repetition, fueled by pathological hatred and self-delusion, what else is?

    Eat a cookie and go on writing Bash scripts. Or whatever it is you do all day besides hating Microsoft.

  4. oiaohm says:

    LibreOffice falls into the toolkit class of thing. Its great for getting custom business applications to process documents in handy and creative ways.

    There is kinda a gap. Windows Manager bits lot of companies don’t spend a lot of resources working on.

    Reason most windows managers on Linux are truly good enough these days. They get the job done.

    Its interesting to see where the corporations are focusing there money. Blender, alfresco, libreoffice all do have a lot of companies spending time work on them.

    Editshare currently has its hands full open sourcing lightworks. But the question is when they complete that what will the do next.

    Lightworks is a case of high end Linux data processing for video companies Editshare needing a video editing software on Linux because that is what there customer keep on complain about. So they bought the best in the market out right. Of course Jan most likely want to pretend stuff like this is not going on either.

    Next best on the list of course is adobe.

    The Linux market where it weak is starting todo what MS did against apple early on buy companies with the tech they required. People forget blenders source code was not donated to the community it was in fact paid for buy its users so it could go open source. Media side is getting more and more likely to buy way out of limitation.

  5. Waldo Frankenhammer III says:

    I see the Microsoft contingent is busy chasing their tails like dogs. Making the same old arguments that have been false for many years now. The past is their friend, the present their agony. They go around in circles, saying the same things day after day. Nothing new, nothing new at all comes from their keyboards. They don’t seem to care. Maybe they are not even aware they are repeating themselves. That must be part of the mental illness that has yet to be classified by the American Psychiatric Association.

    Is it possible they need are sympathy and not our scorn? If it weren’t for the insults I’d say yes.

  6. Nonsense. many of the Linux developers and LibreOffice developers are paid by corporations to do the work because it is in the interests of corporations to have the work done. A corporation of a few thousand employees is better off hiring a programmer than paying licences for software because they can customize the FLOSS application. In the Linux and LibreOffice project we see many corporations cooperatively working on the project because it is efficient to do so. Large corporations are eminently suitable to contribute to FLOSS because they can weigh the costs better and plan accordingly.

    Many corporations are supporters of LibreOffice, including Google which is not primarily a software-creation company and several IT consultancies. Consultancies would not bother with LibreOffice if their customers did not use it.

  7. Last year, in a school, a teacher asked for some software in a school to run in GNU/Linux. I tried Wine and it worked. There is no reason at all that a business should not similarly use Wine. It’s not an emulator, so execution is quite swift.

    Even IBM in their RedBook on migration to GNU/Linux write,
    “4.7.5 What to do if all else fails
    There may be applications left that do not lend themselves be moved off a Windows client using any of the mentioned methods. If these applications are to be used after the client migration because of economical, legal, legacy, or other reasons, a solution has to be found.

    At present it is possible to use a Windows emulator (like Wine) to get an application running on the Linux client. This should, however, be seen as a temporary workaround. This is not a solution for the long run.”

    Amen. The long-term solution is to use platform-independent software like Java or a web application of interpreted software.

  8. oiaohm says:

    Jan since I hang around wine I am kinda a bit more bias.

    I do seen companies from time to time running latest version of wine to make stuff work.

    “nearly no corporations are actively involved in developing the Linux Desktop.”

    They are not as dead as you think. You don’t see them in the desktop environment design but you do find them in toolkits like GTK and QT reporting bugs and sending patches upstream to get them fixed.

    So the interaction is there and its growing. Basically corporations focus is the tool-kits for there custom internal applications. KDE and many other DE do what they need out a interface.

  9. Jan says:

    As so often you deliberately try to misunderstand me, Pogson. When I wrote that “[t]he Linux Desktop is dead to corporations”, I meant that — migrations to Linux notwithstanding — nearly no corporations are actively involved in developing the Linux Desktop. A run-of-the-mill Enterprise Linux distribution like Red Hat has an average life span of 6 to 9 years, using only “old”, proven components. Therefore corporate users using Enterprise Linux distributions interact with systems where a large time lag is involved. That makes corporations not well-suited to involve themselves with further developing the Linux desktop. Even the Enterprise Linux makers aren’t particularly involved there, they merely take from upstream what upstream offers, without there being a big reciprocity.

  10. Jan wrote, “The Linux Desktop is dead to corporations.”

    You mean corporations like Peugeot (second largest car-maker in Europe), or IBM (one of the biggest corporations on the planet)?

  11. oiaohm says:

    By the way Jan something you are not aware. Who set the license that Google was restricted to so Android would take off.

    The answer is the the 9 graphics chip makers. Android is Linux bowing to there wishes. Google could not have made Android alone. This is why you fail to understand. The Linux desktop is made or broken 90 percent of the way by hardware makers.

    Software is less than 10 percent of the problem.

  12. oiaohm says:

    Jan
    “Funny enough many cross platform applications are fast on Windows, yet they crawl on Linux. Besides, Wine is a cop-out. One of the oh-so-many big, ugly hacks that plague Linux.”
    Trace this please. Repeated common bugs to most of them. Graphical layer. Other one has been like sqlite with fsync being very insistent about putting the data on disk compared to windows. Ie some is price of higher data protection of Linux. Yes slow cases trace to two bugs over 90 percent of the time and guess one of those is not really a bug.

    Besides when MS got market share they had a OS/2 emulator. Wine is no different. MS Dos was designed to run some CP/M binaries. Its the way to get into a already dominated market.

    “They’re investing in what’s beneficial to them. That’s not the desktop.” This is the problem.

    Just because IBM in Bob Sutor is disregarding it does not mean the critical are. Simple fact here IBM does not make graphical processors. So a comment from a guy who cannot really do jack about the core desktop environment problems on Linux.

    Lets list the companies that can do something HTC, Qualcomm, Samsung, Texas Instruments, Broadcom, Intel, AMD, VIA and Nvidia that is the top 9 in graphical chip development. Only two of those are not working directly with the open source stack. VIA and Nvidia.

    Shock horror only in the last 12 months did Samsung, Qualcomm, Broadcom and Texas Instruments come on board fully the leading chip makers for all arm based devices.

    HTC is also removing S3 patent blocks from open source Opengl development. Nvidia has already stated a will not help but will not hinder. Yes Nvidia will not use there patents against the open source stack.

    Basically most of the patent walls in the last 12 months have been vaporised that have been blocking opengl development on Linux.

    Really its the 9 core companies in charge of graphical chips you have to watch. They are the companies that select if your graphical desktop has legs or is dead. They don’t support you then you are over 90 percent dead before you start. Something most people would not dare to think that there are companies with more control over the desktop than what MS has. Companies that can force Microsoft to Bow before them.

    Yes Intel has release open source drivers for Linux forever. But they mostly did not give a stuffed about Linux performance of those drivers until recent years.

    Basically you want the biggest problem with Linux DE’s. They have been like trying to build a house without having any foundations.

    The hardest thing to lay in build or software are good rock sold foundations.

    Jan simple point here if no one wants KDE on Windows there would be no developers and user reporting bugs here http://windows.kde.org/ .

    Jan the Linux world shift massively in the last few years. Most likely a ways that Bob Sutor could not have predicted.

    Part of the reason why Windows Phone 7 is dieing so badly is that the drivers for ATI/AMD hardware for Windows Phone 7 are directly taken from the open source stack. So yep Windows Phone 7 with ATI/AMD hardware performs worse than android.

    The graphics chip makers can make or break OS’s. Vista classic example. MS wanted to change graphical design a particular way. ATI and NVIDIA both took offence. Result MS had todo what ATI and NVIDIA agreed to so they could get graphical drivers for Vista. No graphical drivers no desktop that simple.

    Yes serous-ally if the graphics companies got out of bed the wrong side they could basically kill MS in a year. Linux has at long last got most of the graphics companies onside or at least agreed not to be hostile.

    I guess that is a little hard to accept. Linux world for many years had been directly fighting against what the graphics wanted.

  13. Jan says:

    “This is incorrect. Lot of corporations are fixing the Linux Desktop issues. Size of problem is part the issue.”

    No, they’re not. They’re investing in what’s beneficial to them. That’s not the desktop. Bob Sutor has said it all a long time ago. Nothing’s changed. The Linux Desktop is dead to corporations.

    “Move to OS X and you will lose some applications.”

    Sure you will. But you also will find others, perhaps better ones, as OS X is a platform which is attractive for commercial developers. You have a much greater chance to find a suitable replacement for an application on OS X than on Linux.

    “Funny enough some applications run faster in wine than on windows it self.”

    Funny enough many cross platform applications are fast on Windows, yet they crawl on Linux. Besides, Wine is a cop-out. One of the oh-so-many big, ugly hacks that plague Linux.

    “Note sign that a DE is not worthless is if it has had users attempt to port it to Windows and other platforms.”

    Porting to Windows is their only chance for redemption. On Linux the DEs stay worthless, though. And KDE … nobody wants that mess on Windows.

  14. oiaohm says:

    oldman that last error of mine shows why I hate people who say spell checker and grammar checker fixes all.

    That is the form of dyslexia suffer from one of it side effects word swap. Sorry I was having a bad day. Ok my bad days are better than 8 years ago.

    Jan
    “Too bad that no corporations are interested in fixing the mess which is the Linux Desktop.”

    This is incorrect. Lot of corporations are fixing the Linux Desktop issues. Size of problem is part the issue.

    Problem 1 graphical interface stack from the dark ages. Completely rebuild the graphical and interface stack. This is KMS and DRI2 and Wayland. Part way complete. Yes this process has been under way for years. Google added own display driver system to by pass the problem. Tizen support by many companies run straight into the problem.

    Remember historically Linux just took what Unix used. Only in recent years has Linux really gone out on a branch and taken the lead in interface design for all Posix based OS’s bar OS X. You should have heard FreeBSD and Solaris guys screaming about having to implement stuff. They got so use to it being the other way. Yes Linux most if it blame has been lack of interest in desktop core layers.

    Problem 2 add power management suitable for devices. Yes serous-ally Linux for years has not taken power management as critical. Google has been in fact working with the Linux kernel to take what they prototyped in android and make it more a all round solution.

    Problem 3 applications. This is chicken and egg. You need market share to have applications and its hard to get market share in desktop world without applications. But this is changing.

    Of course people like Phenom cannot see there is a link between market share and quality of FOSS applications.

    “Will my favourite accounting / drawing / photo editing / cad / music / whatever program work on this one, and will it work better”?
    Move to OS X and you will lose some applications. Phenom its a simple reality of changing platforms even upgrading versions of windows you can lose some of your favourite applications.

    Funny enough some applications run faster in wine than on windows it self. Biggest bug bears for wine. Graphical stack and audio stack. Two biggest causes of wine being unpredictable with applications. So problem 1 is really problem 1. Since this is one of the major reasons you cannot run your favourite apps from win32 arch.

    Audio stack issues are not all distributions video stack issues are all.

    This is why I don’t get you Phenom yelling about running your favourite windows apps yet you are not yell about the faults that are blocking them from running on Linux.

    So this statement is completely stupid. FOSS applications have been raising in quality. There is a good enough line. Will not wine working + native foss applications not cross the good enough line if they can work perfectly Phenom?

    The unpredictable running of complex graphical applications on Linux has been what holding it back more than anything else.

    Note sign that a DE is not worthless is if it has had users attempt to port it to Windows and other platforms. KDE has had such a issue over the year not being portable to windows but lots of people attempting.

    Also if you look at tizen and meego both heavy backed by corporates they avoid the general DE’s.

  15. Some OEMs or retailers ship PCs with that other OS not installed just a restoration process. It does take hours. Here’s an example of a restoration that I did document.

    I have 43 years of experience on all manner of computers from main-frames to pocket calculators. I have designed computers. I was a member of the IEEE for many years (voted on IEEE P1014) and published works in refereed journals and a master’s thesis. I have many times set up computer labs and school networks and been the in-house IT person in remote communties where it can cost $thousands to fly in someone. I know more about computers than 99% of consumers. I have my own server with local repositories of Debian GNU/Linux in two flavours and set up databases and interactive websites for several schools. What more creds do I need to justfify my opinions?

    I have been paid for decades for my computer expertise and I have written a lot on the subject. That makes me a professional by most measures. What has Jan ever done?

  16. Jan says:

    “One lady at a remote fly-in community came back with a printer, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, M$’s office suite and a printer, She, a consumer could not get it to work. I, a seasoned profeesional took 4 hours to get it working.”

    Another shocking story where you want to make us believe that a) a consumer could not get it to work without providing any details, making your anecdote worthless, and b) you’re a seasoned professional.

    Incidents and problems can happen, but if you take four hours to set up Windows, you’re doing something wrong. Period. I regularly read Linux forums, among them Germany’s biggest Ubuntu forum, and the stories about Windows you get to read there, almost all provably false, are nothing but hilarious. They all have something in common, which is their pattern: “I did some shit, Windows died on me, it can’t have been my fault! Windoze stupid! Micro$oft stupid!”

  17. Jan says:

    What can we learn from this?

    Linux as a basis CAN be a success if big, capitalistic corporations are calling the shots. As with Android.

    Too bad that no corporations are interested in fixing the mess which is the Linux Desktop. It’d be like throwing money to the pigs. Thus the clueless morons can continue duking it out who of them has the most worthless DE (Unity, Gnome Shell, KDE4).

  18. Allow me to punctuate, oldman:
    “I guess there are a lot of upset people who cannot try to use “the source code is not out” er there attack any more.”

    So the spelling is bad. It’s the thought that counts. Over and over twits commented here that Android/Linux was not FLOSS because the source code was not published. This development should silence that. Just about everything negative I have read about GNU/Linux or Android/Linux from certain commentators here is rubbish.

  19. Phenom wrote, “Most users, Pogs, happen to do work on computers, too.”

    Nope. While PCs may be a tool in the workplace, at home where most usage of PCs happens (units in place/hours of usage), people have fun. They live on FaceBook or catch the news, sports and weather. Very few people are self-employed.

    I have helped many people with their purchases of PCs. Too often they consult me when their recent purchase does not work. They are shocked to learn that FLOSS exists and does what they need for much less. One lady at a remote fly-in community came back with a printer, PC, monitor, keyboard, mouse, M$’s office suite and a printer, She, a consumer could not get it to work. I, a seasoned profeesional took 4 hours to get it working. On startup it was in restoration and we had to hold its hand while that other OS kept rebooting etc. The printer needed a manual driver download. We never were able to get the paid AV package to work and she hated Office when she saw it. Her first order of business was a report which I helped her produce on one of the school’s computer running GNU/Linux. Her last word, “I never would have bought it if I had known” how much work it was to set up and that GNU/Linux could do what she needed for free. I had outlined the choice at the “I accept” stage of starting up but she had spent close to $1500 on this mess and meant to use it. That was Vista and M$ lost a customer forever, I suspect.

  20. oldman says:

    “I guess there are a lot of upset people who cannot try to use the source code is not outer there attack any more.”

    Huh?

  21. Phenom says:

    Pogson, you keep on being quite misguided by thinking that users only browse the web. Most users, Pogs, happen to do work on computers, too. When people buy new computers, they first ask “Will my favourite accounting / drawing / photo editing / cad / music / whatever program work on this one, and will it work better”? And since most FLOSS alternatives to these are laughable crap, people flock back to Windows. And OEMs are forced to oblige, or they will not sell a thing.

    Tablets are a completely different market. They ate the share of netbooks, and affected the desktop only as much as certain users do only watch movies and browse the Internet. Most people, however, have a desktop at home as well. PC Desktop sales stayed low, because 7 had no greater requirements than Vista. Many people didn’t upgrade their hardware to upgrade to 7. There was no need to. Hardware upgrade cicle got longer.

  22. oiaohm says:

    Phenom funny futuremark already works on Android 4.0 in the mobile benchmark suite.

    I guess there are a lot of upset people who cannot try to use the source code is not outer there attack any more.

    Lot of the android 4.0 will be upgrades to existing items already out there.

  23. Yes, but they can only buy what’s offered. Where are M$’s smart phones? Few percent? If OEMs and retailers offered them probably more would sell but the channels see more profit in shipping ARMed smart thingies with Android/Linux so that’s what end users are buying. The channel will want to see those margins spread to “normal” PCs so GNU/Linux and Android/Linux will start to appear in that space. Then end users will buy GNU/Linux. That already happens in places like China where Dell actually gives shelf-space to GNU/Linux.

  24. oldman says:

    “Availability of applications is only relevant to the end user. ”

    Uh, Pog? Isn’t the end user actually the one thatdoes the buying? 😉

  25. Availability of applications is only relevant to the end user. The OEM may well care a lot about the bottom line which includes the price of inputs like the OS. Android/Linux will cost the OEM almost nothing so the OEM can compete with others better. Since many OEMs already use Android/Linux, an OEM will consider it. The ISVs only care that the platform is available and has an installed base. Android/Linux has that. So that leaves only retailers and end users. So far they seem happy with Android/Linux and I don’t see that changing if M$ does something a year from now.

  26. Phenom says:

    Windows 8 is not here yet, but the software for it already is:
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5104/futuremark-announces-3dmark-for-windows-8

    An OS is worthy only what the applications for it are.

  27. lightpriest says:

    Seriously, I can’t wait. From using the emulator, this version looks like a step up.

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