Dancing with the Dark Side

We now have a small peek into what transpired between M$ and ARM. Digitimes interviewed the boss of ARM and elicited these comments:
“Brown pointed out that the ARM group has tried to launch ARM-based devices that share similar functionalities as notebooks, such as Smartbook, but demand from consumers was weak since consumers still have expectations for the devices to feature the same performance and compatibility as traditional notebooks, while consumers also found the Android operating system difficult to get used to.”

That is so unreal. The whole world is producing Android products and cannot meet demand. The ARMed ecosystem has made a serious bite in notebook territory. Yet Brown said those things. M$’s salesmen are great salesmen even though they cannot yet make a decent OS. Let us hope talks between ARM and M$ do not reach merger or acquisition. It’s probably a good thing that M$ cannot get “8” out the door for a long while. Even Brown will see the error of those statements by then.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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18 Responses to Dancing with the Dark Side

  1. oldman says:

    “I have seen that other OS drag on dual-core 64bit machines with fast drives. ”

    And I have seen windows 7 run applications just fine Pog. Of course I’m not using crapterons or under-powering my hardware because of some antiquated notion of how a system “should perform”.

    “If you add enough cores and RAM to an ARM system to get it to handle the bloatware, it will use a lot more power, defeating the chief advantages of ARM.”

    But whether you like it or not, this is what will most likely happen with ARM as it is stretched from a processor form power stingy imbedded systems to a desktop environment where it is expected to perform just like a general purpose desktop it purports to replace.

  2. He must believe the brand will sell no matter how bad the performance. I have seen that other OS drag on dual-core 64bit machines with fast drives. I cannot see it working with ARM very well. If you add enough cores and RAM to an ARM system to get it to handle the bloatware, it will use a lot more power, defeating the chief advantages of ARM.

  3. twitter says:

    What is unreal is that the CEO of a company that’s making all of it’s money on gnu/linux somehow thinks this vaporware effort from Microsoft will be any different from past efforts. There are other crazy quotes from this guy about Windows 8 pushing Microsoft into TVs and all those other places gnu/linux now dominates. I can’t think of a more clear disconnect from reality but talk is cheap. Perhaps Brown is just trying to forestall Microsoft retaliation.

  4. I have rarely seen a GNU/Linux system that needed more than that.

  5. oldman says:

    “RHEL server subscription for education, $60

    see RH

    Update only, no support.

  6. RHEL server subscription for education, $60

    see RH

  7. oldman says:

    “Slip in the CD and you have 20 minutes of work to get 3 years of updates. Cool.”

    Its about the same with windows 2008 – also cool.

    Red Hat subscriptions are on a yearly bases and range. The enterprise support option that we jse is (with our discounts) about $1800.00 per year PER SERVER.

    In comparison, Windows 2008 EE R2 costs us under a select academic VLA $450.00 with software assurance upgrade protection.

    Even IF you cant qualify for the Select VLA, the EE Price is a one time charge.

  8. “Red Hat Linux 5 HPC 3Yr RHN Subscription, Not Factory Installed with media [Included in Price]”

    Slip in the CD and you have 20 minutes of work to get 3 years of updates. Cool.

    “The Red Hat HPC Solution is a low-cost, end-to-end software stack for high performance computing. It provides all the tools needed to deploy, run, and manage an HPC cluster in one easy to install package. It is designed to power departmental clusters running industry-standard x86 64-bit hardware.

    The Red Hat HPC Solution combines the technology from two industry leaders in the HPC market – Red Hat and Platform Computing. It integrates the powerful cluster software framework of Platform Cluster Manager with the world-class performance, security, and stability of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux operating system.

    This complete solution provides everything needed to get started with high performance computing: the operating system, device drivers, simple cluster installer, cluster management tools, resource and application monitor, interconnect support and a powerful job scheduler – Platform Lava.”

    see RedHat HPC

  9. Contrarian says:

    “So, RedHat with a subscription is included in the base price while that other OS wants up to $6000 more”

    I think you are misinterpreting the Dell offering. If you select the NFI or FI options for Red Hat at $0 cost, you do not get the actual subscription and RHEL license. Rather, you have to select which RHEL option you want included in the package.

    The least expensive R:HEL selection is:

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux,1-2SKT,1yr Subscription&License,1 virtual guest [$869.00]

    If you choose Windows, the least expensive standard server offering is:

    Windows Server® 2008 R2, Standard Edition, Includes 5 CALS [add $755.00] $100 WINDOWS SERVER 2008 R2 STANDARD MAIL IN REBATE ENDS JUNE 30, 2011 – See Details

    Which, with rebate, comes to $655.

    The price is even less with selection of the Web Server version of the OS, which is the architecture that I am most familiar with since that is all you need for .NET web services.

  10. Contrarian wrote, “It may even be a lower cost alternative to Windows there although list prices for Linux based servers versus list prices for Windows Server based servers are pretty much identical”.

    Compare oranges with oranges. GNU/Linux servers sold with support sell for a lower price than servers running that other OS without support.

    Here are some prices for Dell’s PowerEdge 510s

    Windows Server 2008 R2, Standard Edition,x64, Includes 5 CALS [add $530.00 or $17.00/month1]

    Windows Server 2008 R2, Web Edition,x64 [add $110.00 or $4.00/month1]

    Windows Server 2008 R2, Datacenter Edition (2CPU),x64, Includes 5 CALs [add $6,000.00 or $192.00/month1]

    Windows Server 2008 R2, Enterprise Edition,x64,Includes 10 CALs [add $2,840.00 or $91.00/month1]

    No Operating System [subtract $310.00]

    Novell SUSE Linux Options

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux Options

    Red Hat Linux 5 HPC 3Yr RHN Subscription, Not Factory Installed with media [Included in Price]

    So, RedHat with a subscription is included in the base price while that other OS wants up to $6000 more

    Who’s pulling numbers out of their ___ now?

  11. Contrarian says:

    “voila! Linux is a success”

    It is a success in any accounting where the criteria for success are drawn to its advantage and it is a failure where other metrics are used. In the server environment it is easy to see where Linux is useful as a lower cost alternative to unix for many types of operations. It may even be a lower cost alternative to Windows there although list prices for Linux based servers versus list prices for Windows Server based servers are pretty much identical. To save a bundle, you have to strike out on your own, eschewing Red Hat or Novell versions of “enterprise” Linux for self-administered and supported equivalents.

    On the desktop, many of my techinically inclined friends have heard of Linux and the more common sort do not even recognize the name. My experience is that no one, even the technical guys who write software for a living, actually use it on the desktop. (I myself have a Ubuntu machine created from an old Compaq tower PC and an 8 year old IBM IntelliStation set up as a server with Ubuntu Server. They are not used for anything other than occasional investigation of some new happening on the Linux scene, but I can report that they work just fine and were not very hard to configure or maintain and I am not an IT administrator by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t think I have turned either on in the past 4 or months, though.)

    My own experience is not supportive of the 10% claim made above although it may be true in China or some other area that is not my baliwick.

    For Microsoft, the measure of success is the profitability of its business operations and it is very successful today and has been very successful for close to 30 years now. Ditto for Apple and moreso today than in the past. Google uses Linux internally and is somehow the owner of Android although it is not clear whether or not Android makes any money for Google yet or if it ever will. The whole scheme has a hint of .COM in its makeup and may just be a bubble brought about by the general lack of understanding in the general population. Time will tell.

    For many advocates, Linx success appears to be identified as Microsoft decline and I do not subscribe to that sort of thing. But a lot of people can and do benefit from the Linux developer efforts and that is a success of sorts whether or not Microsoft continues to succeed on its own.

  12. Developer May 2011 Percent June 2011 Percent Change
    Apache 203,609,890 62.71% 224,484,657 64.88% 2.17
    See Netcraft – Web Server Survey

    That’s millions n’est ce pas?

    GNU/Linux is on 10% of PCs, about 150 million machines.
    Worldwide PCs in-use surpassed 1.3B units in 2009 and will reach nearly1.9B units by year-end 2014

    Doing the maths, 1.9/1.3 = 1.46 = 1.078^5 so for 2011, the number of PCs is 1.3B X 1.078^2 =1.5 billion and 10% would be 150 million. So, millions of PCs do run GNU/Linux. QED

    Lenovo, all by itself, shipped a million PCs running Ubuntu GNU/Linux in 2010 in a single country, China. See http://www.ubuntuforecast.com/2010/10/05/lenovo-set-to-ship-over-1-million-ubuntu-pcs-in-china-in-2010/ and there are many other distros and many other countries …

  13. The Other Dave says:

    GNU/Linux is used on many millions of PCs and servers. It works well.

    See? He pulls stats out of the air (or his ass if you want to be crude about it) and – voila! Linux is a success.

  14. GNU/Linux is used on many millions of PCs and servers. It works well.

  15. The Other Dave says:

    but it seems to me that you are walking on thinner and thinner ice as the spring thaw advances

    Robert Pogson goes to the beat of his own drum which entails him ignoring reality and setting up a world in which he’s always right about Linux being useful and successful.

  16. Phoney “7” was late to market with too little and it is off the radar. There is no reason to believe that “8” will be different. Android is now an established brand with global support by OEMs, retailers and consumers. For ARM to expect “8” will catapult them to greater success is weak. ARM will intrude on the notebook space simply because ARM is smaller, cheapter, lighter and more efficient. There is no need for a connection wtih “8”. It is M$ who is trying to catch the wave with ARM, not the other way round, whatever the PHB of ARM thinks.

  17. Contrarian says:

    “That is so unreal.”

    You have a propensity for wanting to swim against the stream, I think. Previously you advised that IDC has miscalled the market outlook for PCs, partially based on an expected rise in ARM devices. Now you say that the CEO of ARM has it wrong, too, and is underestimating his company’s chances. I can applaud your sense of optimism in what you see as a better world on the horizon, but it seems to me that you are walking on thinner and thinner ice as the spring thaw advances.

    I do think that there is a definite paradigm shift under way that is as significant as the shift from command line to GUI once was. I think that Android is well positioned, along with Apple, to take some serious business from what was once the Microsoft private reservation. I do believe, however, that Microsoft is not taking all this standing still and they are effectively using their vast resources to remain as a big factor in the personal computing business, whether it is phones, tablets, or conventional computers.

    Overall, it is good for the consumers who will see cooler and cooler things produced at continuously lower prices for delivered goods.

  18. lpbbear says:

    Nothing changes….

    A few months back, while reading one of your posts about Arm, I thought to myself “hmmmm, how long before I read about Microsoft either buying out, partnering with, taking a large share in, “former” Microsoft employee being appointed CEO of or some other BS crap”. Didn’t take long eh?

    I remember thinking a few years ago after discovering the truly innovative company called “Asterisk” how long before Microsoft gets a clue that this is something they should move into. (Skype purchase)
    http://now.eloqua.com/es.asp?s=491&e=162556

    Then we have this putrid extortionist scam:
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/05/microsoft-gets-5-from-htc-for-every-android-phone.html

    Just the other day I came across this little so far barely covered reference.

    http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/229900137

    Any guesses as to how long Linux purchaser of Nvidia products will continue to have access to Linux drivers if this occurs?

    Microsoft is a scumbag company run by scumbags and supported by scumbags.

    Wake up DOJ! Your long Bush inspired nap needs to end.

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