Thin Clients, The Walking Dead Of Computing

“In those early days, even as we swapped the serial cables for network ones, shrunk the cases, and doubled the performance, it didn’t take long before thin clients were banished to niche use cases, becoming the territory of call centers, nurses’ stations and manufacturing plants—often to those workers’ disappointment.
 
Until recently, this was the status quo. The experience gap compared to PCs made it tough for thin clients to reach any deep level of market adoption, despite their power saving, cost and security benefits.
 
But here in 2018, that experience gap has all but closed, just as the rise of the mobile workforce has made security substantially more difficult for IT teams. Suddenly, thin clients seem like a pretty great idea.”
 
See Closing the PC/TC experience gap for good
Thin clients always seemed like a great idea for me. As Moore’s Law worked to ramp up power in the servers, the lowly thin client just had to show the pix and send the clicks. It was a match made in heaven. Upgrade one system and bless them all. It didn’t work very well for heavy multimedia but for everything else it was the right recipe to minimize costs and maximize performance. I used them in schools to great advantage. 8 year old PCs made great thin clients and we could buy a few newer servers to run the place. I felt like Superman…

Well, thin clients have progressed a lot. Folks are loading them up with computing power and graphics out the wazoo. Networks have moved on from 100 mbits/s to 1000 and stuff just happens faster. RAM is cheap and plentiful for servers as is computing power and storage. Most of us are doing a lot on the web anyway. There’s not much difference between a web-application running on a server somewhere or a desktop application running on a server in the building. Thin clients just won’t die as much as haters wish.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in Linux in Education, technology and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

166 Responses to Thin Clients, The Walking Dead Of Computing

  1. DrLoser says:

    I’m assuming, oiaohm, that you are admitting that you are full of bull-shit.

    There’s no such college, is there?

  2. DrLoser says:

    I’m still waiting, oiaohm. This isn’t even a contentious subject where software or hardware is concerned.

    Just a single college, of whatever accreditation, which “teach[es] programming teach the 3 terms from the joke plus extra.”

    There isn’t one, is there? You lie, oiaohm. You lie, blatantly. You are a colossal, ignorant, useless little coward of a liar, who will not admit that he is a total and utter fraud.
    And please note that I am still following your “rules” for getting an answer.

  3. DrLoser says:

    Unfortunately this is not true because some collages who teach programming teach the 3 terms from the joke plus extra.

    Name one, oiaohm. As you can see, I am playing by your rules and using the proper identification.

  4. DrLoser says:

    Yes this is also taught in collage as part of stress management courses.

    Would that be “Stress Management 101,” or did you go for the PhD level course, including two weeks immersion in SAS training? (This is a joke, btw. You seem to need advance notice of such things.)

    Time to go back to “collage,” oiaohm. You’ve got a whole lot of worthless little links and bits of paper. Try to fit them together in a way that doesn’t make you sound like an imbecile.

  5. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, let me tell it again for you. No one, and I mean absolutely no one in software business uses terms “lasagne programming” or “ravioli programming”.

    By the way, we elders on the Balkans even use the term “kadaif code”, as a local synonym for the term “spaghetti code”.

    Of course, there is no way for you to know this. The closest you’ve been to software development is when you passed by a local software shop on your way to your favorite lamppost.

  6. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser
    http://aboutabugg.com/if-you-dont-laugh-youll-cry/
    Its related to the above. Yes this is also taught in collage as part of stress management courses. I do know that UK programmers can be overly stuffy.

  7. oiaohm says:

    1) You do not seem to understand that Raymond J. Rubery (a respected computer scientist who has many real insights in his record) intended “the pasta theory” as a joke.
    May terms are birthed from jokes. Raymond J. Rubery in a interview 12 months after that joke he was ready regretting it as they were already appearing in official programming term dictionaries.
    https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/64968/lasagna-code
    Yes that appears somewhere 1992-1993.
    3) No serious practitioner of software programming/design/analysis uses the terms “lasagne programming” or “ravioli programming” at any point in their work. Except when joking, obviously.
    Unfortunately this is not true because some collages who teach programming teach the 3 terms from the joke plus extra. People from those collages giving code reviews use them an insane amount. They introduce Lasagne and Ravioli code as well as “big ball of mud” here in Australia in some collages as early as 1994 those collages are still teaching those terms today. Australia is not the only places with collages to teach the terms and having their students use them in review documents.

    You except when joking kinds of applies. You are seeing paste code terms in code review is normally that the code is that bad it was a joke that they need to ask anyone to review it. So the reviewer trying to turn a very sad state of affairs into a joke.

    4) I therefore conclude that if, as you say, you hear these terms regularly in “meetings,” you do not work within a million miles of software programming/design/analysis.
    Please note I did not say regularly. But when you do hear them in a meeting you have to be serous because things are really wrong.

    DrLoser the issue here is something that can appear to be a joke in different countries can be deadly serous in another.

    “rats nest spaghetti code” as a term was first taught here in Australia the 1980s and had disappeared by the year 2000. If what grece had quoted had come from the persons collage training was in Australia you could say they were in collage between 1994-2000. If you had the complete report you could lock down to exactly what collage.

    DrLoser known when and where these terms come into usage can be very useful for identify when person claims to have trained a particular collage is true or not. Particularly when some of these lock to particular time frames. A person who has taken another person identity by most back ground checks will check out but these term usages they fail.

  8. DrLoser says:

    oiaohm:

    1) You do not seem to understand that Raymond J. Rubery (a respected computer scientist who has many real insights in his record) intended “the pasta theory” as a joke.
    2) In fact, looking back at your various posts, I’m not entirely sure that you are constitutionally capable of recognising a joke. Any joke. Of any sort. Anywhere.
    3) No serious practitioner of software programming/design/analysis uses the terms “lasagne programming” or “ravioli programming” at any point in their work. Except when joking, obviously.
    4) I therefore conclude that if, as you say, you hear these terms regularly in “meetings,” you do not work within a million miles of software programming/design/analysis.
    5) Then again, everything else you write has made this point so forcefully that it hardly needs the reinforcement of “pasta programming.”
    6) For somebody who is constitutionally incapable of recognising a joke when he sees one, you are, as mentioned in the posts directly below, one of the most unintentionally hilarious people I have ever encountered.

  9. Grece says:

    Hammie baby, please explain the notion of Linguine code and how it relates to Macaroni code.

  10. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Also: a-ha ha ha ha ha ha… ha ha ha…

    ahh…

    Oh my Hammie… we do appreciate your posts, really we do.

    I wonder if you know why?

  11. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Still failing to answer or respond (in any meaningful way), whilst whining about allotted names that have befallen upon you?

    It’s as if you were trying to avoid an unpleasant truth about your rodentian self… don’t you know.

    But which one is it now, when so many exist for you to avoid.

  12. oiaohm says:

    https://www.docsity.com/en/news/programming-2/programming-pasta-spaghetti-lasagna-ravioli-macaroni-code/ I guess you were looking at DrLoser

    The other two terms (three, if you include “Macaroni code” — yes, there is such a term. oiaohm unaccountably missed it out) are just stupid. They are clearly stupid, because, why would you just pick different varieties of pasta?
    No I did not Macaroni code is insanely rare to find as bad code bases. As it has to be multi programming languages in a single file. Macaroni code is not in any formal programming dictionary or declared inventor.

    Pasta Theory of Programming by Raymond Rubey of SofTech Inc gives us Spaghetti, Ravioli and Lasagna in 1992. Did not include Macaroni.

    They are clearly stupid, because, why would you just pick different varieties of pasta?

    “Macaroni code” … I can’t face going into this. Apparently it involves mixing several different programming languages in one “document.” Well, there goes the entire Web into “Macaroni code.” (I have some sympathy with this view.)

    Problem is due to not have a formal declared inventor so no base document “Macaroni code” meaning does also change. The define about multi programming languages of “Macaroni code” term the multi languages in anything from 1 document, 1 file or project other than build system. If the veneration ended there that would be a different problem.

    https://theburningmonk.com/2010/01/buzzword-buster-macaroni-code/
    Then you have the other define of macaroni code what is about using too many abstraction layers what means its a subset of Lasagna. So a formal code review that you find the term macaroni code the review need to be redone because the author is incompetent because the term does not pass review.

    They are clearly stupid, because, why would you just pick different varieties of pasta?
    Reality is the 3 terms (Spaghetti, Ravioli and Lasagna) have been used for so long from the Pasta Theory of Programming that they are like how the space of rail lines in the USA trace back the the asses of two horses of a particular breed. A lot of people use the 3 terms and they could not tell you the formal name of the 3 of them. Just because something comes a defacto standard in a particular field does not mean it does not appear stupid either.

    DrLoser I have already pointed how that I could ID Hampster to a point. He/she did have a particular set of language issues in word selection that don’t match mine. Also is like to over use ! at least back then might have got out of that habit.

  13. DrLoser says:

    Now I am not a software dev, but if I was in a meeting and some bloke stated that, I would have laughed my ass off.

    I am one, and so would I. (We can leave the question of why anybody would want to “meet” oiaohm to one side.) But at least this is interesting to (I hope) both of us, and not just more drivel.

    “Spaghetti code” is a portmanteau observation that the software in question lacks entropy and is, basically, a useless unstructured mess. So far so good. I don’t think we can complain about this short-hand. You fix spaghetti code by refactoring.

    The other two terms (three, if you include “Macaroni code” — yes, there is such a term. oiaohm unaccountably missed it out) are just stupid. They are clearly stupid, because, why would you just pick different varieties of pasta?

    “Lasagne code” has layers, which is considered good, except when it’s bad. It’s a stupid term. Once you have layers, you are stuck with layers. It’s part of the model. There is no projective re-writing of the code that applies when you suddenly find yourself in Lasagne-land. (You can’t even tell whether it’s good or bad.)

    “Ravioli code” is wrapped up in little parcels which are loosely coupled but far too small. How do we know that they are far too small? Actually, we can’t. There’s even a GoF Pattern that backs up “ravioli code” — it’s called the Flyweight pattern. There is no projective re-writing of the code that applies when you suddenly find yourself in Ravioli-land.

    “Macaroni code” … I can’t face going into this. Apparently it involves mixing several different programming languages in one “document.” Well, there goes the entire Web into “Macaroni code.” (I have some sympathy with this view.)

    In short, this is a bunch of crap that oiaohm has dug up off Wikipedia to make himself feel smart.

    In reality it just shows that he has never been near a development room in his life.

  14. DrLoser says:

    Over 90% of my IT is done with a web-browser.

    A web-browser is not a “lightweight computer,” Robert. I can even run one on my SQL Server machine. So, no — not even if you accept the Wikipedia definition — you are not using a “thin client” for 90% of the time.

  15. DrLoser says:

    If you ask the wrong handle you lose the right to ask that question of me.

    That is a perfectly fair point of view, oiaohm, and I regret my lack of politesse. However, oiaohm, I assume you are prepared to answer the question if asked with all due deference and correctness:

    joepeatf was possibly Hampster as he used commas. Hampster other handle was joe. Both of us would use 3 letter handles when chatting with each other.

    Is it true, oiaohm that you can therefore identify “Hampster” in some way? Please ignore my mis-spelling: I meant “Hamster.” But is it true that you can identify either one of those two monikers? Personal details not necessary: a single link to a post by either would be welcome, oiaohm.

    The one thing fifi was known for was being anti racist stuff. What over 10 years you have forgotten that fact. It was one thing the real fifi told me off for.

    Is it true, oiaohm that you can therefore identify “fifi” in some way? Personal details not necessary: a single link to a post by either would be welcome, oiaohm.

    We speak as peers, oiaohm. We should share this information, as peers do.

  16. Grece wrote, “Are you using a thin client now?”

    Technically, yes. “A thin client is a lightweight computer that has been optimized for remoting into a server-based computing environment.” See Wikipedia. Over 90% of my IT is done with a web-browser. I run applications on several remote computers within my home too: ftp, http, database, printing, and a few others from time to time. We mostly use 2 Android/Linux smartphones, an Odroid-C2 and an ancient Atom besides the Beast. Android is becoming quite annoying. e.g. If I want to do some ftp from the Android device, Android tries to start up an FTP application rather than just using the browser… I can get around that by overlapping http and ftp storage but I haven’t bothered to do that yet.

  17. Grece says:

    Are you using a thin client now?

  18. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_code
    Grece no it gets worse. Spaghetti code, Ravioli code and Lasagna code are all real terms. The following is what you don’t want to find at the end code audit report.

    “Spaghetti, Ravioli and Lasagna was found to be the only style making up this big ball of mud so total audit fail.”

    Yes Grece that is a real last line taken from a code audit report. Serous business meeting you read that then have to keep a straight face.

    “Spaghetti code integrated into Lasagna code does exist. ”
    This line is what you do see in code audit reports from time to time of course normally someone is in trouble or you hope so.

    Grece basically I guess you would be the person when a code audit report of bad code is read out laughing that hard that you would have to be taken out the room so the meeting could go on.

    Of course this post had nothing todo with topic.

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!
    This was absolutely not true grece. When are you going to get back on topic.

  19. Grece says:

    How many times can you use the word “idiots” in one writing? By my estimation a whole lot more, lets try for five next time, eh?

  20. oiaohm says:

    Grece really should I keep on backing you idiots incorrectly using other peoples handles then.

    Really the reason why I am not answer you questions is simple. I have told you idiots enough times if you want questions answers stop being idiots and using other people handles to refer to me. Really its not a dumb response at all its that you guys are total morons that you are in this location in the first place.

  21. Grece says:

    Speaking of endless entertainment.

    Spaghetti code integrated into Lasagna code does exist. Its not in the class of rats nest spaghetti code but is pretty down right bad.

    Now I am not a software dev, but if I was in a meeting and some bloke stated that, I would have laughed my ass off.

  22. Grece says:

    Reality you are still asking questions of a person who is not hear so you don’t want answers.

    That has to be the dumbest argument, as to why you won’t answer the question.

  23. oiaohm says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor hammie is not here. Reality you are still asking questions of a person who is not hear so you don’t want answers.

  24. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Ah Hammie, you can’t find any links to “support” your nonsense, can you?

    That’s to say, you can’t find anything even at your low level (or rather, no-level) of expected evidence quality – the “hope no-one will follow the link, read, laugh, and tear me to shreds” level.

    No problem, Hammie, I didn’t believe any of that bullsh** in the first place.

    BTW, Care to stop pretending about you personality, or is this going to become another item of endless entertainment?

  25. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser so still asking people who are not here. Even worse accusing people not here of stuff. Remember my rule. If you ask the wrong handle you lose the right to ask that question of me. So I don’t have to provide any of that information now and its your fault.

  26. DrLoser says:

    joepeatf was possibly Hampster as he used commas. Hampster other handle was joe. Both of us would use 3 letter handles when chatting with each other. Really that you googled joepeatf showed how little you know.

    Wow. Get help. Like, Yesterday.

  27. DrLoser says:

    And I hate to add to your burden of insupportable proofs, Fifi, but you really haven’t asnwered the following, have you?

    Now that you mention USB sticks…, you know that old machine I mentioned a few posts back (the one from the 90’s), it has USB ports… and still supports newest USB sticks.

    You’re pretty much the exact reverse of a court-appointed “expert witness,” aren’t you?

    If only there were jobs in the legal system for an “expert nincompoop.”

  28. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser sorry Hampster and me use to get into direct debates on particular forums.

    I’ve been trying really hard not to see you as a self-denying schizophrenic imbecile, Fifi, but you’re really not helping me here, are you?

    It’s pretty obvious to us all that you are a self-denying schizophrenic imbecile. With, the, occasional, comma.

    But hey, here’s an easy way to prove me wrong! We know that at least one of your half-wit pseudo-personalities is overly fond of storing links for future use.

    Let’s see a link to “Hampster and me use to get into direct debates on particular forums,” shall we?

    You don’t have one. This is a blatant lie.

  29. DrLoser says:

    I have had to swap machines from XP as they started failing to support USB keys and the like.

    Continuing with the theme of gerunds, gerundives, and the present imperfect aspect, Fifi, what we have here is the last of the three. Which of course leads us, logically, to the assumption that these machines originally supported USB keys “and the like” (whatever cretinism that implies).

    Your latest babble merely claimed that Windows 98 didn’t support USB 2.0 at all. Something weird to do with drivers and passwords, but whatever. And now you are claiming that they did, but something — surely not your own incompetence — somehow “stopped them working.

    Do, please, elaborate.

  30. oiaohm says:

    Now that you mention USB sticks…, you know that old machine I mentioned a few posts back (the one from the 90’s), it has USB ports… and still supports newest USB sticks.
    Windows 98 does not support the newer encrypted sticks because you don’t have the driver to send password. So of course a fib as normal. Really repost this time use oiaohm or ohm and I will point out that you did not have a single fact 100 percent correct.

  31. oiaohm says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor write it again. This time use my handle because you don’t want an answer right.

  32. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor hammie is not here to answer questions.

    Good that he is not, better still that he sent you.

    Besides a machine under manufactures warranty that a company has sent to refurbishment is shipped out windows 10.

    What magick finds and then binds these “facts” together, pray tell. (pst! Hammie, is it fervent googling, by a pet rodent in your mind?)

    If it has Windows 7 it old and only has 90 day refurbishment warranty.

    Ha, ha, ha, oh my, yes, precisely true Hammie, just by “90 days” you have obviously meant “a year at the minimum, unless shipped with expanded warranty.” Good that you have such clarity in understanding, surpassed only by your keen displays of wit.

    Windows XP is is worse off from windows update being turned off than Windows 98.

    Why yes, yes, it’s totally worse, after all, it’s only exactly the same therefore… oh wait.

    I have had to swap machines from XP as they started failing to support USB keys and the like.

    Did this actually happen? Or are you just lying, as per usual? I’d really like to know? Should I assume you wouldn’t be able to diagnose problems even if someone actually told you what’s going on? I probably should…

    (Also, where were you swapping those machines? In your mind? Please don’t tell me someone lets you play with their property.)

    Now that you mention USB sticks…, you know that old machine I mentioned a few posts back (the one from the 90’s), it has USB ports… and still supports newest USB sticks. Must be Windows XP at fault here, failing to meet rabid rodent fantasies, maybe because I didn’t turn Windows Update on? Maybe because evil Microsoft hates rodents?

    Transistor lacks the real world experience.

    Your fantasies are not “actual experiences of the real world,” Fifi; but yes, the rest of us lack them (it’s not just me, we all think you’re crazy), and that’s a good thing. Not that I expect you to understand.

    Windows XP is the start of vendors shipping drivers by Windows update system.

    Oh really? But, how many of them? How many drivers? And that matters, how? Implying exclusivity, are we, Hammie?

    Windows 7 more drivers are not shipped from vendor sites but only by Windows update.

    Why yes we are… Say Hammie, have you actually found an example of a driver that was only available through Windows Update? Frankly, I find that unlikely, but please, show us what you managed to Google for, maybe we have some Microsofties aboard who might find your raving lunacies amusing.

    Windows 7 is a way different beast to XP or 98 when update servers get turned off as the result will be losing access to a larger pool of drivers..

    Oh, certainly you little Hamster, certainly; now, could we get examples of said drivers, such that we may ascertain the “size of the pool” ourselves.

    Please make this hillarious Hammie, please, please, pretty please.

  33. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser sorry Hampster and me use to get into direct debates on particular forums. So that is strictly not my handle. It was you TM repository idiots who started calling me Hampster and hammy when that was always someone else handle. We both have different english problems and you TM morons could not tell us apart.

    joepeatf was possibly Hampster as he used commas. Hampster other handle was joe. Both of us would use 3 letter handles when chatting with each other. Really that you googled joepeatf showed how little you know.

    Its just like fifi as well DrLoser. So you are effectively listing different people I have had debates with instead of using my handle.

    An Out Of Phase Transistor hammie is not here to answer questions. Besides a machine under manufactures warranty that a company has sent to refurbishment is shipped out windows 10. If it has Windows 7 it old and only has 90 day refurbishment warranty.

    Windows XP is is worse off from windows update being turned off than Windows 98. I have had to swap machines from XP as they started failing to support USB keys and the like.

    Reality An Out Of Phase Transistor lacks the real world experience. Windows 98 was designed for off line driver install. Windows XP is the start of vendors shipping drivers by Windows update system. Not all drivers. Windows 7 more drivers are not shipped from vendor sites but only by Windows update. So Windows 7 is a way different beast to XP or 98 when update servers get turned off as the result will be losing access to a larger pool of drivers..

  34. DrLoser says:

    By the way as soon as you solve the pronounce of oiaohm the short form is dead clear 3 letters “ohm”.

    “Solve the pronouce?”

    I’ll have to stop talking about complicated things like gerunds and gerundives and the present imperfect aspect, sha’n’t I?

    “The pronounce?”

    Sorry, Hampster (you may remember that was an old name for you). Sorry, but that doesn’t actually work, Fifi.

  35. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser both hammy and fifi are used to refer to a group of people. I am a single person.

    Well, you’re the one saying this, oioahm. Up until now, we’d all assumed that hammy was a (cheerful and chummy, as I say) cognate for oiaohm. I don’t remember anybody attaching that cognate to any other poster.

    Similarly, although Fifi isn’t exactly cheerful and chummy … just a description of your inner “naughtiness,” … I don’t remember anybody assigning the cognate to somebody who is not, very obviously, you.

    What is the point of this, hammie? It doesn’t matter whether you are “a single person” or not. Let me explain this to you, Fifi: you act like Fifi/hammie, you talk like Fifi/hammie, that’s what you get called.

    Get that, me duck?

    And now back to thin clients, which as eloquently demonstrated by An Out Of Phase Transistor you know nothing at all about. Spectacular, considering that it is one of your theoretical “special subjects.”

    Why not try sticking to your utter unfathomable ignorance, rather that peeing up a wall about what we choose to call you?

  36. Grece says:

    Fifi is not here. That is again a refer to a person who is not here.

    This line reminds me of the Cheech & Chong skit, “Daves Not Here”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDAK7Umk7A

  37. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Majority don’t ship that way […].

    Hapless dimwit tell me you spotted the sarcasm and didn’t actually try to respond in earnest.

    There are many reasons why you need to software update thin-clients.

    And there-in lies the rub, if you want local software then you’re knee deep in thick-client-mud, careful not to slip, you’ll be engulfed completely.

    Please note hardware support issues will also hit windows 7 when 2020 rolls around and Microsoft turns off updates and you no longer get automatic driver provide by Microsoft.

    Ha, ha, ha, oh my; while the issue may actually arise, it really wouldn’t be about Windows Update. Be aware Hammie no such issues (and they are real) stopped the use of Win98; and off the net in the third world, one might find Windows XP to still be the dominant OS (can’t really say though, but it’ll certainly be much more prominent than what the web statistics would have you believe).

    Windows 7 Pro is not designed for 4K

    Completely irrelevant, even if it were true in the way you seem to imagine.

    4K support enters at Windows 8.1

    Completely irrelevant, even if it were true in the way you seem to imagine.
    (Notice Hammie, how the answer remains the same; wonder about this and cry, as searching through Google cannot solve your problems.)

    Yes all of your older 15 year harddrives had more hours of operation when new than the ones where shipped 7 to 8 years ago.

    Note to silly morons (all of your personalities, I mean) all my 7-8 year old HD also still work, and the 12 year old and the 5 year old, etc, etc…

    Some of your 5 year old ex business computers that have been on 24/7 are right at the end of their max number of hours on their harddrives.

    Not relevant. As there won’t be many office PCs used in such a way, and the stuff isn’t dumped on unsuspecting customers as if it were being thrown to waste; as per usual Hammie, your understanding is nonexistant.

    One of the things you should budget for when buying a second hand machine is having to replace harddrive

    No, not even remotely true; any HD may fail, and there will always be a good argument to be made in favour of a back-up; but the failure rate of office PC HDs will be low, maybe less of a lottery than buying a new one (who knows, after all, it’s done a 3+ year operational test).

    Also, please keep your consumer-crap-nightmare stories and beliefs to yourself. Seriously.

    An Out Of Phase Transistor also most refurbished companies have license with Microsoft where they can install windows 10 pro on anything that support it.

    Hammie darling, these people charge you for installing anything, you get a Windows 7 license, because it’s attached to the hardware, if you actually want them to go through the motions of installing software… you pay for the priviledge. The license is there for company deployments, so as to avoid extra licensing costs (or reduce them, etc…), this has no bearing on any actual OS being installed, that’s up to the customer who will probably task own IT dept.

    No Hammie, refurbished enterprise PCs aren’t there for your rodentis vulgaris (you buy at wallmart, or wherever), to a certain extent, it’s a value proposition for small to medium businesses.

    This means most of there stock with windows 7 on is is older than 2014.

    Doesn’t actually matter, do you even have a clue about what we’re talking about here Hammie?

    Of course you did not give the key detail of what Intel/AMD process was in that refurbished machine

    As it’s irrelevant (both in-effect for this conversation and in-concept).

    You said 3-5 years no way has to be 4 years or older.

    Could be (or maybe you don’t understand the concept and imagine light speed department and org transfers), but as it is, it doesn’t actually matter.

    Also, can you actually count? Are the high numbers confusing you?

    Could be dirt cheap because it 8-9 years old [+plus whining about “poor health,”].

    Except that it isn’t (neither 10 years old, nor dirt cheap, not somehow of poor health); for one last time, do you understand the concept of “enterprise hardware, refurbished, under warranty,” eh, Hammie?

    I’m not saying it’s some sort of an “unbreakable solid golden-unobtainum gift from the vault of Xerxes TM,” BTW; I’m saying that it isn’t your consumer-level-crap, and that it comes with relatively high reliability expectations, usually well founded and confirmed over the course of its life time.

    These are the things that don’t stop working, you stop using them (once you don’t need them anymore).

    And they are cheap, which brings us to the gist… the era of “thin” is not upon us anymore (and one could even try to make an argument that it never really was, as opposed to sado-masochism, sadly still present, regardless of time and technology; but those types who care about that ought to know better).

    So anyway…

    Rodents beware: All your freetarded nonsense does belong to the loonie bin TM

    (Regarding your “poor health” concerns Hammie, I do hope it’s not somehow self referential.)

  38. oiaohm says:

    Reality Grece and DrLoser you guys don’t act like adults. You are morons who have not growing out of being childish yet.

  39. oiaohm says:

    Grece attempting name calling is also what childish. When you behave like a child why should I treat you any better.

    Fifi is not here. That is again a refer to a person who is not here. Of course DrLoser is too big of a child himself to admit that.

  40. Grece says:

    You know whats sad, Fifi’s persona reminds me of a pouty child, but in reality they are a grown person. I would hire and fire them just for the LAWLS.

  41. oiaohm says:

    By the way as soon as you solve the pronounce of oiaohm the short form is dead clear 3 letters “ohm”. So DrLoser is in fact typing more crap using fifi that is related to many other people than using the correct short form. Basically so calling me these names because you don’t know the basic rules to sound out different english words you morons.

  42. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser both hammy and fifi are used to refer to a group of people. I am a single person.

    It’s a term of endearment, oiaohm. It derives from trying to pronounce your screen name and coming up with “hammie.” Like “petey” or “mikey” or “bobby” or whatever.

    Sorry my screen name is fully pronounceable if you understand english.

    oiaohm the ia are effect silent. ooo-ohm. So its the word ohm with a long o sound at the start. Its part a joke about meditation. oiaohm also equals “Ok I Am Over Here Mate/Man”. So there is no relationship between hammie or fifi and the way my handle should be pronounced be it the short form or the long form.

    Now hammie is close to how some idiots altered oiaohm as a insult and another person use to post using it. Yes there was a person who use to post a name like me ending in ham. So hammie has absolutely nothing to do with my handle and never did. It fact it linking my handle to another person handle.

    Also DrLoser you are a total moron. Term of endearment as a requirement that the person accept the nickname since I don’t what you are doing is nothing more than name calling in the form of bulling.

    With fifi you are also attempt to-do the same stupid thing DrLoser.

  43. DrLoser says:

    Grece who is hammy is not me.

    It’s a term of endearment, oiaohm. It derives from trying to pronounce your screen name and coming up with “hammie.” Like “petey” or “mikey” or “bobby” or whatever.

    Well, you’re not noticeably endearing, and it seems to bug you for no good reason. I propose we keep calling both you and joepeatf “Fifi” from now on.

    You two half-wits OK with that?

  44. oiaohm says:

    Grece who is hammy is not me. So another person who wants to talk to no one. Of course this is to attempt to cover up the statement.

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!
    This was absolutely not true of course.

    Yes I am bringing up when Grece was at least attempting to be on topic.

  45. Grece says:

    DrLoser and DeafSpy again talking to no one

    That’s right Hammy, you are a NOBODY, now go pick some citrus fruit.

  46. oiaohm says:

    Lol DrLoser and DeafSpy again talking to no one and expecting answers.

  47. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser dieing is not a adjective its a action of shaping metal with a die so a verb.

    Yes, a verb in the present imperfect aspect, Fifi. I think we’ve covered that.

    Shame you can’t read. Amongst your manifold other deficiencies.

  48. DrLoser says:

    Will you now stop calling me fifi that you can see some of things you associate with fifi are clearly other people.

    In the words of the Sage, Fifi:

    Fifi is as Fifi does.”

    I hardly see that it matters how many of your septic split personalities there are out there. You are, and always will be, Fifi. Now get back under that lamp-post.

  49. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser it does make sense. This happens over and over again. I am away for while and someone creates a new handle and posts . As soon as I turn up again they disappear.

    Really, Fifi?

    Then perhaps you could grace us with a link to one of those “over and over again” occasions.” Just one.

    You’re good with links, aren’t you?

  50. DrLoser says:

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!
    This was absolutely not true. I like how Grece is attempt to change the topic also to hide that his a moron.

    I like how you don’t quite understand what the topic is, Fifi. “Thin clients,” remember?

    Refresh your goldfish-like memory by reading Robert’s original post. Or, let me not tax your blurry little eyes too far — just read the damned headline.

  51. DrLoser says:

    Grece sorry to instead of too is common typo. Spell checkers don’t highlight it.

    Well, no prejudice involved here. I’m going to construct a sentence and run it through whatever version of Libre I have installed as part of Ubuntu 16.04 LTS. I promise you, I am being honest and have not tried the sentence ahead of time.

    “Fifi is to stupid to bother listening to.”

    Which is fascinating, because you are right. Libre doesn’t complain. Then again, if I add the following:

    “Blart. Flnxibble. Frub tawn engribbble.”

    … it doesn’t complain, either. Perhaps you need a better office product.

    Thenn again, checking on Google, it appears to be very difficult to get anything at all out of Libre Office in the way of spell checking. What a worthless piece of dreck.

  52. Deaf Spy says:

    Come on, Fifi!

    When you install Windows 10 on a 4K device, what is the scaling setting it defaults to?

  53. oiaohm says:

    Grece: Then why did you even respond?

    Simple so that he cannot claim that he was not answered by someone. The reason question is not being answered is that he used an invalid name.

    Reality you cannot demand someone answers questions if you don’t use their handle. If you ask question to incorrect handle first person is in their right to refuse to answer you if you ask it in future because you were disrespectful.

    Really Grece, DrLoser DeafSpy and other are universal bullies. Only bullies depend on changing someone name. Even worse those names are using to group people who are not the same person. Using correct handle you cannot make that mistake of incorrectly grouping people.

  54. oiaohm says:

    Grece sorry to instead of too is common typo. Spell checkers don’t highlight it. Really pointing it out shows you are a big moron as well Grece.

    If you had not noticed I common use too and to correctly. One off typo is nothing to talk about unless you are a complete moron Grece who is attempt to make a point by any way possible. Who cannot tolerate being wrong.

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!
    This was absolutely not true.

    I like how Grece is attempt to change the topic also to hide that his a moron.

  55. Grece wrote, “Perhaps you should post about the van that mowed down ten people in Toronto, and then blame it on Trump.”

    I have it on good authority this nut-case is Trump’s cousin from Canada… The story goes that Trump was looking at either dodging the draft to Canada or the “bone spur” thing. He sent his cousin to Canada to establish a base of operation and the nut-case has been angry every since. He doesn’t like the winters.

  56. Grece says:

    Deaf Spy there is no fifi here to answer your question.

    Then why did you even respond?

    Reality if you are to big of a moron..

    Mighty rich of you calling someone a moron, when you do not know the grammatical usage or the difference between (too / to)

  57. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy there is no fifi here to answer your question.

    Reality if you are to big of a moron to use a person handle ask a question you will be to big a moron to understand the answer.

  58. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, dear, you are an idiot. A fact as clear as that the sun rises from the east.

    Tell me, Fifi. A quick quiz. When you install Windows 10 on a 4K device, what is the scaling setting it defaults to?

  59. Grece says:

    Hey Robert, why have you stopped posting?

    Perhaps you should post about the van that mowed down ten people in Toronto, and then blame it on Trump.

  60. oiaohm says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor also most refurbished companies have license with Microsoft where they can install windows 10 pro on anything that support it. Its part of being a Microsoft authorised refurbishers.

    This means most of there stock with windows 7 on is is older than 2014. So not a 3 year old business computer but at least 4 years old. Also notice that most of the refurbishers you are seeing no windows 8 or windows 8.1 because a majority of those machines can be upgrade to Windows 10 under the Microsoft authorised refurbishers process.

    Of course you did not give the key detail of what Intel/AMD process was in that refurbished machine you were quote to work out exactly how old it really is roughly.

    https://ark.intel.com/#@PanelLabel29862 intel page I have on quick link but there is one for AMD this tells you how old you are really dealing with.

    You said 3-5 years no way has to be 4 years or older. Could be dirt cheap because it 8-9 years old. Not all business turn over their computers to refurbishers at 3-5 years some do 7-8 years old turn over these machines are in a lot worse health and rightfully cheaper.

  61. oiaohm says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor
    They put all that in a case do they, strange that it would fit, I mean, you’d think the “software” wouldn’t leave any room…
    Majority don’t ship that way. You have the thin-client software on a memory card put in the box maybe inside case if you are lucky. Why because the raspberry pi 3 thin client is shipped as like 3 things. Shipped with no software, Shipped as a kodi media centre or shipped as thin client.

    Just to add to the strangeness some thin client vendors the case, power supply and rasbery pi 3 come assembled in one set of packages and the memory cards with the software come on another. When you find you have to unscrew the case to insert the memory cards this up there in the mega annoying and makes you start wishing you had ordered the thing disassembled as this would have been less painful. Basically entry level thin clients can be total pains to deploy.

    Oh I see, it was all about “software update,” yes that’s what thin clients are for, updating software, pray tell Fifi, do you have a slightest clue as to what you are rambling about?
    Really I ask you that question you are clueless on thin-clients.

    There are many reasons why you need to software update thin-clients.
    http://www.devonit.com/thin-client-software/management-suites parties sell thin client management software for a reasons.
    1) security. A thin client is still running an OS that does get security flaws so does need to be updated.
    2) Protocol changes. Your remote desktop protocols do get updated. You do need to update thin clients for this. And a thin-client that does not support the protocol you wish to use is a paper weight.
    3) Hardware support. There are 4 usb ports on them. You only need a max of 2 for keyboard and mouse what are the other 2 for. That right for storage devices and other things so of these things need drivers so the OS in the thin-client can detect them and share those items back across the network.

    Please note hardware support issues will also hit windows 7 when 2020 rolls around and Microsoft turns off updates and you no longer get automatic driver provide by Microsoft.

    My, my, Hammie thinks he found some sort of a chink in armour; pray tell, Fifi, how much does it cost to upgrade to the newest, cheapest, GPU, if a need would arise?
    Yes its a chink in your armour. This shows how little you know about the topic.
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-desktop/how-to-configure-4k-displays-with-windows-7/df3ff2c8-88dd-4a86-ae14-9b28737d93de

    Windows 7 Pro is not designed for 4K. So its not just graphics card.
    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2013/07/15/windows-8-1-dpi-scaling-enhancements/
    4K support enters at Windows 8.1

    Yes, that’s why those 15 year old HDs I seem to have plenty of still work
    Yes all of your older 15 year harddrives had more hours of operation when new than the ones where shipped 7 to 8 years ago. This is due to cost cutting in hard-drive bearings. This is where the fixed operational life comes from because a harddrive can only rotate so many times before its bearing die or worse its coded in firmware. Some of your 5 year old ex business computers that have been on 24/7 are right at the end of their max number of hours on their harddrives.

    I meant enterprise systems, removed from use due to 3-5 year deployment policies, shipped to volume collectors, tested for problems, refurbished and resold with warranty.
    If you can get on the 3 year side this it can be ok. But if you are getting on the 5 year side of this things can be really bad really quickly. Most second hand only comes with a 90 day warranty. Its possible to tell that a harddrive have 91 days of operation left before it crosses is predicted harddrive bearing failure point. That is what the max hours of operation in harddrive specifications is for you compare the smart data Head_Flying_Hours against the rated max hours of operation to work out how many hours an harddrives have left. Worst some brands of cheap harddrives used in some PC take max hours of operation in que to shutdown ability to write to harddrive. So max hours of operations depend on brand is either a suggestion possible fail past that value due to wear or that it will absolutely fail when that value get hit because it hard coded in the firmware of the drive.

    One of the things you should budget for when buying a second hand machine is having to replace harddrive particularly if you cannot see how many hours the harddrive has done.

  62. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor entry level thin clients these days is a Raspberry Pi 3 in a case with software.

    They put all that in a case do they, strange that it would fit, I mean, you’d think the “software” wouldn’t leave any room…

    Software update ability both the ODROID-C2 and Raspberry PI 3 will have more years of updates than your cheap entry level tablets.

    Oh I see, it was all about “software update,” yes that’s what thin clients are for, updating software, pray tell Fifi, do you have a slightest clue as to what you are rambling about?

    Some android tablets have less than 12 months of updates. 60 Eurox5 years= 300 Euro is the TCO on some of those cheap tablets if you care about being upto date.

    Oh I see, so, because Unix/Linux/Android happens to be a “completely fu**ored platform,” not only in a technical, but, and far more importantly, also in structure-of-the-ecosystem meaning of the word, this somehow means that actual trash now exceeds working (if lacking) products in value. Your logic here is astounding, or completely absent, I’ll leave the decision on this pertinent issue, to the reader, as an excercise in futility.

    So call cheap android tablets are hugely expensive if you care about security.

    As is true with all Unix/Linux/Android/etc crapola, and always was. Did you want Windows with your fries? Can do, Hammie, but, since they don’t suck their own *** the prices have risen, don’t think Pogson can stand to pay proper prices for anything at all, don’t you know, and I don’t think you should be burdening him with remainders as to how isecure his setup really is, would be too rude, that.

    Next that Windows 7 Pro goes end of life “January 14, 2020” so by the time you get it the thing is going to be lucky to have 18 months of software life left

    Fifi, darlin’, the industry still uses MS-DOS and Windows 98 when needed, the actual remaining useful life of Windows 7 can be anywhere between 20 and 50 years, and is defined by the actual users of said system, not random Linux-thumping fanatics; not that you could comprehend any of what I just wrote.

    Do remember not every motherboard is Linux compatible so its not always possible to convert a second hand windows machine to Linux when windows goes end of life

    Oh my, you can’t?! But, far more importantly, why would you want to (install Linux I mean)? Really now Fifi, it’s the usability we’re talking about here, not the albatross around your neck, and once this little misconception is cleared, the actual effect of “installing” Linux is about the same as that of a virus infection, with the noted difference that about 99.99% of malware don’t destroy data, something Linux is perfectly capable of as part of its core install functionality.

    Make no mistake, a long out-dated Windows box remains as usefull as it was on the last day you turned it on, a system sabotaged by Linux has no function what-so-ever: no software, no features, no value, no point (this never happens to Windows PCs, it never happened to bl**dy Amigas; on Linux however, it is the only available state of existence – uselessness).

    70 Euro for under 2 years does not sound that great

    Actually it sounds pretty awesome; gets better when you realise it will probably work (hardware I mean, as software doesn’t actually rust, regardless of crazy rodent fantasies) for a decade and you’ve just gotten yourself a deal of a decade.

    But if it somehow doesn’t, well, just buy a new one – it’ll take a very long time (decades, literally) before you manage to reach a price of a new system, such terribly poor value, I know (for Hamsters, at least).

    Really it does not work out cheaper. You are ignoring the failures due to old age.

    Fifi… darlin’… systems meant for company deployments don’t fail as fast and as often, as the crap your cat drags in from the local dumpster. Now if I weren’t entirely clear, by “used” I meant enterprise systems, removed from use due to 3-5 year deployment policies, shipped to volume collectors, tested for problems, refurbished and resold with warranty.

    Given the wear and tear – which is to say: next to none – they might as well be new.

    As an aside, the old IBM PC 300XL (a late 90’s model) of mine still works, I gifted it away a long time ago, got it back, had it in the freezing cold of the basement (for half a decade, that is), and tested it for funzies (or maybe I’m as insane as Hammie, who knows) a year ago; well, it still works.

    Windows XP is alive and well, if anyone cares to know (bit slow on that hardware though).

    Keep crying about your supposed problems and imaginary “short” life span of Windows PCs, my dear Hamster, it’s the only thing you’ve got, lies and pretense (or are you really this clueless?).

    I bet the old windows machine you quoted did not have 4K out.

    My, my, Hammie thinks he found some sort of a chink in armour; pray tell, Fifi, how much does it cost to upgrade to the newest, cheapest, GPU, if a need would arise?

    Also harddrives have about fixed operational life.

    Yes, that’s why those 15 year old HDs I seem to have plenty of still work, but no, I’m sure you’re right, I’m sure it all needs to be replaced, ooh, however could anyone ever afford to do that, I wonder.

    There is advantage to new.

    Yes, the price is higher, for one, for two, your consumer sub-level crap really is made to last as little as possible, I’m sure it causes you constant grief; but Hammie, how does any of that relate to the topic at hand, do try to clarify.

    Also those cheap android tablets most of them will not do 4k out either so don’t have as broad of monitor/screen support.

    Why yes, Fifi, this is why you buy a tablet – to watch the content on another screen, thereby making it impossible to actually control the damn thing, as tablets (unlike keyboards, mice and remote-controllers), actually require the user looks at them to use them.

    Oh, Hammie, have you ever used, or at least seen, any of the products you constantly spew gibberish about? Or is it all a giant neverending arguing-from-google fallacies-as-a-lifestyle for (or, rather, from) you?

    No, no, better that you don’t answer. Sometimes it’s best if you just shut up, Hammie.

    (But what are those other times? And when? Questions, so many questions…)

  63. oiaohm says:

    May I point out that joepeatf did not “exist” until a couple of weeks ago? No evidence on Google. No quotes. No nothing. And may I point out that oiaohm took an unexplained (“I was at work, guv,” sure, that makes a whole lot of sense) complete absence over those two weeks or so?
    DrLoser it does make sense. This happens over and over again. I am away for while and someone creates a new handle and posts . As soon as I turn up again they disappear. They never properly match my english style. They make attacks against people in ways I never do.

    Me going a week between being here does happen. A few weeks do happens as well.

    Think about it DrLoser when have I ever highlighted individual words. Blocks of text yes. This other party has a totally different response when annoyed. They never suffer from word shuffle either.

    Really it was deadly clear that it was not me. I don’t change my handle and hide. But there is few other parties who if I don’t post they post instead and in some ways they are way nastier than me yet I get blamed for their actions. Will you now stop calling me fifi that you can see some of things you associate with fifi are clearly other people.

  64. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser dieing is not a adjective its a action of shaping metal with a die so a verb. Just like dying is a verb of losing life . Also to be gerund it also has a noun usage. Dieing is name of the process of using a die to shape metal. Notice something by dying and dieing are both names for a process just different proceses.

    So both dieing and dying are verbs and nouns depends on how they are used so both are gerund and there is no other correct adjective usage for either dieing or dying.

    dyeing does have a adjective form but is from the word dye.

    The reality is you are not using language terms right.

    http://www.shirai-tech.co.jp/en/press/products02.html
    That is a dieing machine. Used in name of machines is a noun because it referring to process.

    Also some forms of english dying is wrong in all cases. Due to those people only knowing the 1 form being dieing they do need to be told the both forms. Also you find dictionaries from different forms of english that are completely missing dieing even that is a valid word for machining and have dying for machining usage as well. This is just one of those areas when english has not been constant and we have some regional differences. So depending on the region of english dictionary it have just dying or just dieing or both. Common global english expects both dieing and dying to be in dictionary.

    DrLoser I called you DrIdiot 8 years ago. So me using that from time to time is nothing strange. That killing your mother bit has never been me. Remember what I said you are mixing more than two people who are independent into one.

    From the different use of commas and the like I have identified at least 6 different people you use the same nick name for.

    Yes DrLoser the moron calling you DrIdiot there are many people who call you that.

  65. DrLoser says:

    But, hey, I live to serve. As a matter of fact, I met a young couple just down the road on Sunday who asked me for the local church. I recommended three to them. “We’ve just moved in two weeks ago,” said Fifi Mk I. “My wife suffered a miscarriage. She has an embolism. We can’t afford the electricity bill.”

    Fifi Mk II looked suitably embarrassed, and not at all post-semi-partum, and it was a Sunday, which means that all three local churches were clearly open, but what the heck? I gave Fifi Mk I £10, just in case he wasn’t a despicable liar.

    I mention this because, well, this blog needs a friendly competition. And Fifis Mks I & II have given me the idea for this friendly competition. The prize is CA$10 to the charity of your choice. If you make a tolerably amusing joke, I’ll double it to CA$20. So, here’s the challenge:

    Use the word “dieing” in any English language sentence you wish.

    I don’t care if it’s a gerund. I don’t care if it’s a gerundive. I don’t even care if it’s a present imperfect aspect.

    Have at it! No commas required. Fifis Mks I and II are particularly requested to offer up an entry to the contest.

  66. DrLoser says:

    On a lighter note, Robert. Good OP, that. I think “The Walking Dead” is rather a poetic description of “thin clients” in 2018.

    Were you referring to murderers on death row, or to zombies?

  67. DrLoser says:

    Now question DrIdiot are you kurkosdr because you have dived into a point I raised with him.

    I think it is tolerably obvious, Fifi, that over the last ten years Kurks and myself have adequately distinguished ourselves as two separate personalities, indeed as two human beings who spend quite a lot of our time disagreeing with each other.

    May I point out that joepeatf did not “exist” until a couple of weeks ago? No evidence on Google. No quotes. No nothing. And may I point out that oiaohm took an unexplained (“I was at work, guv,” sure, that makes a whole lot of sense) complete absence over those two weeks or so? And that Fifi Mk I is now “rampant” all over the Pog Blog, yet Fifi Mk II is somehow completely absent?

    You can’t even lie properly, can you? All you have is total, unfathomable, ignorance.

    And yet, somehow, you expect the rest of the world to listen to your walls o’ gibberish.

    A couple of questions, however.

    1) When did you (Fifi Mk I) start calling me “DrIdiot?” I don’t recall that, myself. I do recall Fifi Mk II calling me that. See further down the page.
    2) This thing about my killing my mother that Fifi Mk II mentioned. I haven’t heard that in about ten years!

    I wonder who might have somehow, presumably via tin-foil and microwaves, communicated that otherwise not particularly worth-while idea to Fifi Mk II?

    Let’s face it, Fifi. You’ve been caught with your split-crotch panties down again, haven’t you? You despicable little worm.

  68. DrLoser says:

    Do try to keep up, Fifi. My point was that you wilfully ignored context. And you did. You wilfully ignored context. (In something apparently written by somebody else, as it happens, so you might at least give joepeatf a light slap on the bottie.)

    gerund refers to a verb usage. die for machining is still a verb usage.

    Oh dear.

    I did try to meet you half-way here, by attempting to discuss the difficulty in the English language when distinguishing between the nounal form (“gerund”) and the adjectival form (“gerundive”). I even gave you a let-out by alerting you to the way that, say, Slavic languages deal with the “present imperfet aspect,” which is of course an actual and non-arguable “verbal” form.

    And yet, for some reason, you are doing two incredibly stupid things at the same time, Fifi.

    1) You are defending joepeatf‘s solecism, even though you are trying (and failing) to make us believe that you are not a pair of unnatural twins joined at birth by some unholy microwave connection.

    2) You are claiming (here, not earlier) that “gerund is a verb usage.” Which is just plain ignorant when it comes to the English language.

    Then again, no surprise there.

  69. oiaohm says:

    Funny how you didn’t do that, oiaohm, isn’t it? Normal people would be more concerned about their own personal reputation, rather than feel the compulsion to dive into “somebody else’s” argument. Particularly when you are trying to claim that you are not that “somebody else.”
    Being a moderator on support channels having that concerned about personal reputation is not a useful feature. Basically this shows how little you really know about what I do. So presume a stack of crap.

    Ah, the links. Did you follow your link on “the gerund of die?” Because, if you did, you would find that (like absolutely everybody else, including of course the estimable Kurks) your link makes a clear distinction between the two homonyms. As in fact do you. Only an idiot would ignore the context of “dieing” and pretend, for some unknowable reason, that the clear intention of making a gerund of “die” as in “become dead” can somehow be ignored.

    gerund refers to a verb usage. die for machining is still a verb usage. So the gerund of die is both dying and dieing depending on if it death or machine usage. The separation does need to be stated.

    Now we don’t know what joepeatf does for a living on what country he is in. If you are giving someone support you should get it right. Part of my job in support management is correcting people when they give invalid support.

    Not only is this “classic Hammy-speak,” which is to say that it is obviously you, but there’s one more thing about it. In this case, “dying” or “dieing” is actually a gerundival usage, not a gerundal one.
    Sorry both in dictionary are written as gerund for compactness.

    “a verbal noun in Latin that expresses generalized or uncompleted action” is gerund and both dying and dieing are both gerund words of the word die.

    Of course DrLoser does not want to admit that kurkosdr got it wrong. So DrLoser lets bring in two words I did use and kurkosdr to attempt to save it.

    Now question DrIdiot are you kurkosdr because you have dived into a point I raised with him. Now if you not this should raise the point that your first logical dive is that of a complete idiot because you do that yourself and you don’t notice then you attempt to tell me I should not do that.

  70. DrLoser says:

    Robert: We’re still waiting for your explanation of why both you and TLW have (some form of, doesn’t matter what, it’s still a “thick client”) PCs at home, and yet you require your far better half to use an Odroid C2.

    You have to admit — this doesn’t really make sense to the outside observer.

  71. oiaohm says:

    https://www.clearcube.com/raspberry-pi-thin-client/
    An Out Of Phase Transistor entry level thin clients these days is a Raspberry Pi 3 in a case with software. So another item people would call a development board.

    ODROID-C2 is Raspberry PI form factor so goes in you standard entry level thin client cases.

    http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G145457216438
    ODROID-C2 has heatsink fitted and configured for 24/7 running. Stable to run at higher clock-speed than a raspberry pi 3 and supports 4K out. And it has video decoding codec enabled out box you you are not paying for those as an extra.

    Tell me Robert, you are aware that Android tablets, at the “cheap end” cost as little as 60Euros, right? Talking about a complete system here, touchscreen, storage, I/O, actual casing, etc (also, these are not discount prices, those would be lower).

    Software update ability both the ODROID-C2 and Raspberry PI 3 will have more years of updates than your cheap entry level tablets. Total Cost over life time if you maintain up to date those 60 Euro tablet cost is more expensive than either a ODRIOD-C2 or Raspberry PI 3 with screen, keyboard and mouse if you are sticking to software maintained versions. Heck it can be most cost effective to buy a new pc than some of the entry level Android tablets. Some android tablets have less than 12 months of updates. 60 Eurox5 years= 300 Euro is the TCO on some of those cheap tablets if you care about being upto date. Please note some of those cheap android tablets from new forget ever updating them properly. So 300 Euro TCO over 5 years is being quite conservative. So call cheap android tablets are hugely expensive if you care about security.

    You are aware that used PCs, refurbished and with warranty, can be had for as little as Eur 100, which will get you a 3GHz C2D, 4GB memory, 500 GB drive, 19 inch monitor and Windows 7 Pro license (>;)).
    (The price is Euro 70, if you don’t need a monitor, just saying.)

    Count your moving parts. Both ODRIOD-C2 and Raspberry PI 3 in thin client configurations don’t have fans or spinning hard-discs. 70 Euro is almost double the cost you get a ODRIOD-C2 in a case.

    Next that Windows 7 Pro goes end of life “January 14, 2020” so by the time you get it the thing is going to be lucky to have 18 months of software life left. This also another reason why it cheap. Both the ODRIOD-C2 and the Raspberry PI3 have at least 5 years of software support most likely longer. Do remember not every motherboard is Linux compatible so its not always possible to convert a second hand windows machine to Linux when windows goes end of life. 70 Euro for under 2 years does not sound that great right vs something that costs less than 70 Euro and has at least 5 years of life ahead being current with security updates.

    Is the place doing those second hard machine certifying that they are Linux compatible I would guess not for the price.

    For one last time, going with Windows and Intel based “thick” clients is the cheaper option, Robert, it always was.
    Really it does not work out cheaper. You are ignoring the failures due to old age. Windows thick clients have a stack of issues particularly old ones due to hardware failing in moving parts.

    I bet the old windows machine you quoted did not have 4K out. So lets compare to something less capable as a thin client and second hand in the Windows thick client and its still more expensive if what you need is a thin client. That extra ram and cpu power for a thin client is not that much of an advantage.

    Also harddrives have about fixed operational life. Most second hard machines are coming up to end of harddrive operational life. There is advantage to new.

    Also those cheap android tablets most of them will not do 4k out either so don’t have as broad of monitor/screen support.

  72. DrLoser says:

    Please note you have never told me this or I would have corrected you.

    Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    As evidence that you two haploids are not one and the same, you could at least advance a more convincing rebuttal to Kurks. Say, “Kurks fool please note I use correct form of gerund. Here is my carefully curated link. I obviously not made of peat.”

    Funny how you didn’t do that, oiaohm, isn’t it? Normal people would be more concerned about their own personal reputation, rather than feel the compulsion to dive into “somebody else’s” argument. Particularly when you are trying to claim that you are not that “somebody else.”

    Then again, you are not now and never have been “normal,” have you?

  73. DrLoser says:

    Please note you have never told me this or I would have corrected you.
    https://writingexplained.org/dieing-vs-dying-difference
    gerund of die is both dying and dieing.

    die for machining a thread is dieing gerund.
    die for death is dying gerund.

    Welcome back, “real” Fifi. You make as little sense as ever, which is why it is so difficult to distinguish you from your schizophrenic alter-ego. Same insults, same nonsense, a few less commas sprinkled around (as though that would be a conclusive disambiguation). You have to admit though, it’s something of a coincidence that there are two ninnies who can’t spell, don’t make any sense, throw random insults around, take it in turns to spout drivel, and have a weird belief that completely irrelevant links somehow justify their nonsense.

    Ah, the links. Did you follow your link on “the gerund of die?” Because, if you did, you would find that (like absolutely everybody else, including of course the estimable Kurks) your link makes a clear distinction between the two homonyms. As in fact do you. Only an idiot would ignore the context of “dieing” and pretend, for some unknowable reason, that the clear intention of making a gerund of “die” as in “become dead” can somehow be ignored.

    But, of course, you are that idiot. You don’t even bother to link to this “South African dictionary” which you claim will support your case. You prefer to link to something that contradicts your case.

    As for the original? Let’s refresh our memory of the original.

    Grece please admit thick client is dieing, it does not have future.

    Not only is this “classic Hammy-speak,” which is to say that it is obviously you, but there’s one more thing about it. In this case, “dying” or “dieing” is actually a gerundival usage, not a gerundal one. It’s effectively the present participle in English, which functions as an adjective. (Replace “dieing” with an adjectival phrase like “universally accepted,” and you will see what I mean. Or in your case you won’t.) Now, in other languages, such as say Bulgarian, it leans more towards a verbal conjugation; in Bulgarian, I believe it is the present imperfective aspect.

    But enough of this. Neither you, Fifi, nor your schizo other half, have admitted that “thin clients” have nothing to do with server technology at all. Since this OP is about “thin clients,” can we at least establish this obvious fact as common ground?

  74. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Arguing about “thin clients” are we, about “odroids,” about price-performance trade-offs, eh?

    How very ilinformed, well we can’t have that, now, can we?

    So, Robert, you want a cheap android device? You want it so bad you are willing to buy a “development board” (i.e. a piece of trash) just so you can get it for 50 bucks?

    Tell me Robert, you are aware that Android tablets, at the “cheap end” cost as little as 60Euros, right? Talking about a complete system here, touchscreen, storage, I/O, actual casing, etc (also, these are not discount prices, those would be lower).

    Further, you want a “thin client,” it’s about the price isn’t it, you want it because it would be cheaper, riiiiight?

    You are aware that used PCs, refurbished and with warranty, can be had for as little as Eur 100, which will get you a 3GHz C2D, 4GB memory, 500 GB drive, 19 inch monitor and Windows 7 Pro license (>;)).
    (The price is Euro 70, if you don’t need a monitor, just saying.)

    Robert, you do realise how crazy and disconnected your price obsession is right?

    You do realise that nearly all of the “hard core loons” were willing to go with much higher costs to avoid solutions based on the IBM/MS/Intel/PC ecosystem and to top it all off they were also willing to accept nearly any level of functionality (including “it doesn’t work at all”); the entire “price based” and “market-based” argument was just a ploy to get the gullible to fall in the trap (and/or to rationalise their own poor choices).

    For one last time, going with Windows and Intel based “thick” clients is the cheaper option, Robert, it always was.

  75. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPICOM
    The open-source morons at our tax administration scrapped a perfectly working system based on CAPICOM to replace it with a Java-based one, which always needs some configuration before you can actually use it.
    That change is because microsoft did not include CAPICOM with Windows 7 and the replacement Microsoft tells you to use does not work on XP. So governments end up going java with all the issues.

  76. oiaohm says:

    Hey, Bob. Could you look into joepeatf and oiaohm to limit the trolling to one illiterate wall of text producing username per person? Thanks.
    Ivan is not clear enough. My insult pattern is constant.

    joepeatf is not me ivan. This has happened to me a lot. I was away due to work. I am not posting other parties start posting then they get called me and I get blamed for what they have done as well. We don’t use the same insult pattern we don’t have same language errors.

    Ivan notice joepeatf has commas in his writing I never do. Does not matter if I am doing a bug report or posting here my writing never has commas. The fact his/hers does straight up tells you we are not the same person. Yet you need to ask Robert.

  77. Ivan says:

    Hey, Bob. Could you look into joepeatf and oiaohm to limit the trolling to one illiterate wall of text producing username per person? Thanks.

  78. oiaohm says:

    Grece besides just because it a place of business does not mean the picture there did not show the same mounting as used in some homes. Basically Grece if you want correct links that don’t required you to use your brains that you totally lack you will use my correct handle. Or what are you mentally unable to type oiaohm so you have to use anything else.

  79. oiaohm says:

    Grece no dimwit you did not want a correct answer so you did not get one. Again Fifi does not exist want another incorrect link???

  80. Grece says:

    Fifi, you are a dmiwit, that’s a point-of-sale monitor, not even remotely close to a thin client and again, it is a place of business, NOT a residence.

    Go Google some more.

  81. oiaohm says:

    Grece as normal you don’t want an answer.

    https://www.partech.com/point-of-sale/features/kitchen-video-system/
    Really how fancy of house do you want to talk about. Upper end houses will have thin-clients in the kitchen for the same kinds of reasons and hospitals. Simple to replace if damaged and there is no data of importance in the thin-client if they are damaged. Also this usage case a little bit of interface latency is not a major problem.

    Again this is case where a phone/tablet does not quite fit right. But I have seen the phone/tablet be the server in the kitchen case and the thin-client be chromecast on back of standard LCD screen on wall mounting bracket.

    The reality is a tablet and phone does not 100 percent fit the usage case of thin client. Does at times fill in the thin client server role.

  82. Grece says:

    Hey Ham-Dong, we’re talking about thin-clients for the home user, such as Robert does. Not in a corporate sense, as your article states. Please try to stay focused instead of letting them WiFi signals affect your brain.

  83. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser
    You can’t even spell it, can you, Dolding?

    Much less justify your claim.
    I now get what it is. Just because someone makes a spelling error they have to be me right. No they don’t have to be. You are a totally moron. I don’t change my handle.

    Yet for some reason the total moron DrLoser thinks he has to guess who is me.

  84. oiaohm says:

    In actuality Robert, thin-clients have been supplanted by tablets and smartphones FYI.
    Grece that is absolutely no.
    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-thin-client-market-is-expected-to-grow-at-a-cagr-of-18-between-2017-and-2023-and-it-would-be-worth-usd-132-billion-by-2023-300582711.html

    Thin clients took a beating from tablets and smartphones for while but that has started to turn around.

    The biggest driving force behind thin-clients at the moment is regulation over information privacy. A thin client does not store anything so is simple to replace no information privacy law to worry about. Where a full machine be it a PC or Server or tablet or phone with data on harddrive/solid state storage has to go though disposal process . Places like hospitals are looking back at thin clients for machines in the front line that can be damaged by patients and staff. Thin clients are simple to replace and have a very light disposal process when you have to deal with privacy laws.

    Looking up general medical records sticking to the same example does not require a lot of CPU or ram usage.

    kurkosdr
    My dear Hammie, how many times do I have to tell you that the gerund of “die” is “dying”?
    Please note you have never told me this or I would have corrected you.
    https://writingexplained.org/dieing-vs-dying-difference
    gerund of die is both dying and dieing.

    die for machining a thread is dieing gerund.
    die for death is dying gerund.
    But you have to remember above is only true in most english. South Africa english dictionaries in fact have dieing as the gerund for die referring to death. That version of english does not do the “ie” to y conversion when adding ing so its not only dieing/dying that is different. So you need to ask a nationality question before correcting on that one as there are a few national forms of english that don’t do the “ie” to y conversion.

    DrLoser changes his handle that much that he thinks everyone else does so does rants against people who it 100 percent does not apply to. DrLoser ranting is mostly a open admit that he as been caught out fibbing again.

  85. DrLoser says:

    Wait! I’ve got it!

    It’s your pet goldfish that uses the other PC, isn’t it, Robert?

    That would explain the otherwise wonky maths.

  86. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser use ad homiem once again.

    You can’t even spell it, can you, Dolding?

    Much less justify your claim.

  87. Grece says:

    Robert, we’re still waiting on updates on the SOLO, your Solar array, Beast upgrade, your non-existent garden and continual complaints about Trump.

    Your blogging quota is seriously going downhill, and so goes your ad revenue, unless of course you never had any ad revenue for the ten years you ran this blog.

  88. joepeatf says:

    Yes, very interesting. Utter rubbish, but we can stipulate that it is true. Let me explain what “stipulate” means to you, little red-leather mini-skirted one.
    DrLoser use ad homiem once again. you, little red-leather mini-skirted one. are very mad, however I chuckle, I laugh to bad arguements. dr padma idiot get your facts straight, you are a middle aged man, I hope you solve middle age crisis. Admit dridiot you are not a doctor, you are pretentous. So yes DrIdiot killed his mama.

    Its amusing DrIdiot, he says I am Peter, however DrIdiot real name is Peter. Stop hitting youself DrIdiot

  89. joepeatf says:

    So, anyway, Robert. Apparently there are only two of you. And both of you use PCs.

    And one of you uses an Odroid C2.

    Might I ask a favour of you? You are, of course, a world-renowned mathematics teacher. Help me out here.

    How does 2* + 1** = 2***?

    * Number of PCs in the household.
    ** Number of Odroids in the household.
    *** Number of “clients” in the household.

    DrLoser I do not live in Robert Pogson…
    .

  90. DrLoser says:

    So, anyway, Robert. Apparently there are only two of you. And both of you use PCs.

    And one of you uses an Odroid C2.

    Might I ask a favour of you? You are, of course, a world-renowned mathematics teacher. Help me out here.

    How does 2* + 1** = 2***?

    * Number of PCs in the household.
    ** Number of Odroids in the household.
    *** Number of “clients” in the household.

  91. Grece says:

    In actuality Robert, thin-clients have been supplanted by tablets and smartphones FYI.

  92. DrLoser says:

    Picking up on Grece’s very salient point — and I do this because Robert hardly ever admits that he bollixed anything up:

    Now with just two of us using PCs there’s less need of thin clients but we have the capability to use them if necessary.

    It’s like an adventure into a drug-addled alternative universe, isn’t it?

    “Yeah, hey, man, I dig we could, y’know, both me and little mama, we could, hey was that a goldfish? Was that a goldfish? What was I sayin’? Dig this, man. We could do what the Man says, and, wow, PURPLE! use “thin clients,” and, it’s part of the System, y’see? Part of the … there goes that goldfish again! I should never have bought that lava lamp. Anyway … OK, sometimes “thin clients” are necessary, you know what I’m telling you? Here, have a hit out of the fish-food can. It’s organic!

    “But me and the little lady are, like, you know, progressives. We’re ready for a full-on total PC hit, man!

    “Hey … was that a CARP? … don’t get me wrong, man. We’re into efficiency. If we need to ditch both of our PCs for thin clients … we’ve already told the goldfish I TOLD YOU GOLDFISH STOP EATING THE BROWN ACID we’re copacetic with it, as long as the goldfish uses I TOLD YOU YOU HAVE NO CHOICE NEMO!

    Have I got this general family attitude right here, Robert? Because it appears to be what your quote means.

  93. DrLoser says:

    Now, to be absolutely fair, and disregarding any particular biases I might have, it is perfectly true that, no matter what the present sales of Chromebooks might be, and no matter how far those sales are discounted, and no matter how many “refurbished” Chromebooks are on the market, and no matter whether or not bulk discount retailers can offload Chromebooks at, say, $200 and up per … this doesn’t necessarily correlate to the sales volume of, say, the Odroid C2.

    Because, when faced by something that is alarmingly expensive and utterly inappropriate to their needs (a Chromebook), the very first thing that the savvy consumer is going to do is to say:

    “I know! I need to buy an Odroid C2 and dumpster dive the other components! After that, I will spend a weekend grabbing whatever bits of FLOSS seem to work with it!”

    It’s possible, Robert. It’s possible. But as far as I can see it is ridiculously unlikely.

  94. DrLoser says:

    Tell us, Fifi. Do you ever, even once, stop to think before you babble?

    Horizontal scale has unlimited power. Vertical scale use inefficient power, it does not use parallel.

    Yes, very interesting. Utter rubbish, but we can stipulate that it is true. Let me explain what “stipulate” means to you, little red-leather mini-skirted one.

    By “stipulate,” we mean that we shall accept this unproven fact as if it were a fact. Let me be almost as explicit as your week-end clients under the solitary lamp-post in town: we will continue to prove our point as if your stupid unrpoven assertion were an actual fact.

    Got that? OK, here we go. I don’t care what variety of server we are talking about. I don’t care whether it is vertical, horizontal, or even whether it is a drunken farm-hand in northern NSW who fancies a bit of rough. It is irrelevant.

    The (theoretical) case for a “thin client” is not affected by the choice of server. The (theoretical) case for a “thin client” is only affected by (a) the functionality of the “thin client” and (b) the functionality of the network connection.

    At this point, normal people would stop babbling on about servers. But you are not normal, are you, Fifi? But, before we wean ourselves away from one of the most entertaining pieces of gibberish you have yet come up with (and I include the wonderful UTF-8 gibberish):

    Web app is bloated, 1 server+1000000000 thin client=fail.

    An interesting couple of arguments against “thin clients.”

  95. kurkosdr says:

    I don’t know what this screams out to you, Robert. But what it screams out to me is: people don’t buy these things. If Walmart can’t sell them off cheap, then nobody can.

    The problem with thin-clients: The thinner they are, the less you can do with them without suffering terrible latency waiting for that network round trip. Imagine for example if, every time you took a photo, you had to wait for the photo to be sent to a server for HDR+ processing and then to come back. Or waiting for your videos to buffer. On the other hand, the fatter thin-clients become, the more they have to be managed like a traditional computer. For example, Chromebooks have to have storage so you have to manage that, they need system updates and they need to roam profiles and install user plugins and user apps.

  96. kurkosdr says:

    dieing

    My dear Hammie, how many times do I have to tell you that the gerund of “die” is “dying”?

  97. DrLoser says:

    And yet, and yet. There are half-way sane people (very much unlike you or Fifi, Robert), who yearn for a good-value “thin client” sort of computer. And up until recently, you were, as I seem to recall, recommending Chromebooks. “Free” as in “I can’t download the bleeding OS because Google is keeping it secret,” but nevertheless, Robert, you were recommending them as a thin client.

    Let’s see how that is going in April 2018, shall we?

    I’ve found a clearance item at Best Buy for US$200, and actually it looks like a usable “thin client.”

    More interestingly, I browsed around the Walmart site (as you do), and fully 50% of the nasty miserable little things are “refurbished.”

    I don’t know what this screams out to you, Robert. But what it screams out to me is: people don’t buy these things. If Walmart can’t sell them off cheap, then nobody can.

  98. DrLoser says:

    Load balancer+a lot of server is horizontal scale. Haproxy is a load balancer, NGINX is load balancer also. load balancer take HTTP request, it tells a server, however million take HTTP request, it tells a server+b server+c server+d server+++, hence Horizontal scale has unlimited power.

    “Unlimited power?”

    Imbecile. Clearly you have never written a useful line of software in your life … let alone considered the cost of, say, synchronising databases.

    Had you done so, I suspect you would have quickly … well, been fired, really, given your obvious limitations, but … found out that “unlimited” is not quite the mot juste.

  99. DrLoser says:

    I have bought an Odroid-C2 a few years ago. It makes a fine thin client. TLW uses it in her office.

    An Odroid-C2 isn’t even a thin client, Robert. It’s a feeble little motherboard, intended for hobbyist development and nothing more It needs a case, a keyboard, a monitor, and presumably a mouse.

    It seems to be a little shaky on power consumption and ethernet bandwidth, too. (I reference here an enthusiast who is comparing it against his favourite, the Ras-Pi.

    But, let us all be honest here. I asked you for your choice of “a thin client,” and this is the one you came up with. And I pointed out that you made the inadvertent mistake of claiming that “thin clients always seemed like a great idea for me,” and I pointed out that this is a completely different assertion to “thin clients always seemed like a great idea for everybody else/”

    You don’t have to put up with this piece of crap, do you, Robert?

    Your long-suffering wife has to put up with it. Or at least to pretend to do so, whilst she covertly uses her “only for travel” Wintel laptop whenever possible.

    What do we call somebody who doesn’t practise their own beliefs, whilst loudly asserting that everybody else should do so? Well, perhaps we should start measuring such a thing.

    I suggest scaling this behaviour by the “Pogson” unit. Now, to be fair, you are at the extreme, outlying end of this scale, so perhaps we can start with the “milli-Pogson.”

  100. joepeatf says:

    No one uses thin clients at home, NO ONE.
    Grece lives under a rock once again. Chromebook is thin client almost, Google Docs use business logic in server, hence its thin client+saas. Chromebook is cheap, I believe its less US$50 used. Grece please admit thick client is dieing, it does not have future. Moores Law is stopped, however cloud computer need not Moores Law, it use horizontal scale. However DrLoser kicks whines moans complains it is very hard. Idiot Google+Facebook use horizontal scale, Google TPU also. Vertical scale does not have future, Moores Law is stopped. Load balancer+a lot of server is horizontal scale. Haproxy is a load balancer, NGINX is load balancer also. load balancer take HTTP request, it tells a server, however million take HTTP request, it tells a server+b server+c server+d server+++, hence Horizontal scale has unlimited power. Vertical scale use inefficient power, it does not use parallel. Web app is bloated, 1 server+1000000000 thin client=fail. Google+Facebook use a lot of horizontal scale.

  101. joepeatf says:

    At home we run five PCs right now. The only maintenance I needed to do last five years after initial setup was to install Java on my wife PC and configure her personal digital certificate. The open-source morons at our tax administration scrapped a perfectly working system based on CAPICOM to replace it with a Java-based one, which always needs some configuration before you can actually use it.
    I am amused Deaf Spy, you proves Robert Pogsons point

    Thick client has a lot of configuration, Java must be configure

    Thin client+SaaS need not a lot of configuration, just had to show the pix and send the clicks. Kurkosdr use Google Docs

    Deaf Spy buy Chromebook

  102. Grece says:

    It makes a fine thin client. TLW uses it in her office.

    As what, a wall hanging oddity? I am willing to bet she hates using it.

    We will likely replace the PC in the living room with another similar device.

    So you are using a PC, NOT a thin client, and you plan to replace it with another PC. Wow Robert, aren’t you being a hypocrite here?

    At one point we had five desktop PCs and a couple of notebooks in our home, when the kids lived here.

    None, of which are/were/was thin clients. Robert, do you EVEN remotely follow you own advice?

    Now with just two of us using PCs there’s less need of thin clients but we have the capability to use them if necessary.

    So now there is LESS need, not to say there ever was a NEED to begin with, but this is Robert we’re speaking about here.

    Wait, you just said that TLW is using a thin-client? So which is it?? It can’t be both!

    So in the end neither of you, by your own admission, are using thin clients at this present or past time.

    I surely think Robert has paddled up the Mohawk River in his old age.

  103. Deaf Spy says:

    One can maintain the whole system for the effort of maintaining one thick client.

    Robert, don’t know what dark age you live in, but what is there to maintain on a thick client these days? Provided it is not Linux, of course.

    At home we run five PCs right now. The only maintenance I needed to do last five years after initial setup was to install Java on my wife PC and configure her personal digital certificate. The open-source morons at our tax administration scrapped a perfectly working system based on CAPICOM to replace it with a Java-based one, which always needs some configuration before you can actually use it.

  104. Deaf Spy says:

    Everybody has internet Deaf Spy! Where do you live homeless idiot?

    You know what the funny thing is, Fifi? My internet connection at home is on a level that is not even available in most West EU countries, US and Canada. And I am not even exaggerating. God bless the State for being so slow to catch up with regulating the market – until regulations and restrictions kicked in, the local providers developed a huge infrastructure (optics, radio modems for remote places), with their own channels abroad.

    Next week, if you are a good boy and take your meds, I may show you a picture of Speedtest. Then, to add insult to injury I will tell you want I pay for it. 🙂

  105. Deaf Spy says:

    TLW uses it in her office.

    But how exactly does she, Robert? If she runs a browser locally, this is not a thin client. If she runs LO locally, it is not a thin client. So, is she running remote sessions on your “beast” (more of a kitty nowadays), or is she is using it as a desktop?

    It saves …money

    You still have to prove this point, Robert.

    Answers, Robert, answers.

  106. Grece wrote, “why in the hell would someone build a server, then use thin clients at home, such as you recommend. When you have not even bought a thin-client in the past few years?
     
    No one uses thin clients at home, NO ONE.”

    It saves time/money, especially if one needs several PCs going. One can maintain the whole system for the effort of maintaining one thick client. I have bought an Odroid-C2 a few years ago. It makes a fine thin client. TLW uses it in her office. We will likely replace the PC in the living room with another similar device. At one point we had five desktop PCs and a couple of notebooks in our home, when the kids lived here. Now with just two of us using PCs there’s less need of thin clients but we have the capability to use them if necessary. I still have some of the ancient VIA thin clients I bought when I was teaching but they are dated and failing being over ten years old. They have too little RAM to be useful these days and their video drivers were never very good with Linux. ARM is the way to go these days.

  107. Grece says:

    Thin clients always seemed like a great idea for me.

    Robert, tell me, why in the hell would someone build a server, then use thin clients at home, such as you recommend. When you have not even bought a thin-client in the past few years?

    No one uses thin clients at home, NO ONE.

  108. joepeatf says:

    Robert Pogson please do not listen to DrLoser. Thin client has a future, it will be better. DrLoser says web app must be upload to 1000 servers, however he avoids the fact that its easier still since web coders work 1 trunk branch only, also deploy server side app is easy in Docker. Rich client app is inefficient, microsoft makes layers of legacy code on layers of legacy code, hence windows 10 can open win95 app, however it makes windows32 API have a lot of errors+more attack surface. however, web app is better since it does not use legacy codes, newest version always. Dropbox+Google’s Docs is SaaS, yet DrLoser says SaaS is a fail. DrLoser get your head out of your ass you ignorant twat, SaaS has mass market!!! even DrLosers beloved microsoft make SaaS, office365 is competitor to Google’s Docs. ChromeOS is thin client, however its not 100% thin client, I believe its 90%. Simple fact is people do not need a lot of apps, they use Facebook+email or other only.

    Also SaaS hires less IT people=a lot of small business grow. DrLoser is naive, he believes IT is free. No ignorant twat IT cost a lot of money. SaaS works execelent always, you need internet+thin client only… Everybody has internet Deaf Spy! Where do you live homeless idiot?

  109. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser read between lines, VGA is connected by servers GPU. Electron flow is speed of light, faster as wireless, however VGA has 0 interference. Digital signal has 0 interference.

    Wow. Just wow.

    Go back to elementary physics school, you abject cretin.

  110. DrLoser says:

    “deep learning” is, reinforcement learning, need I say more?

    Considering that you are the first person to come up with this absurd equivalence, simile, approximation, whatever it might be?

    Yes, you need to delve a little deeper into “deep learning.”

  111. DrLoser says:

    I am amused DrLoser…you use Ad hominem.

    Er, no I didn’t. You’re slightly better off with fictional Star Wars characters … but not by nuch.

    Are you a qualified buffoon, or do you just play one on TV?

  112. Kurkosdr says:

    I am asking for one more time, does any of you (Pog and Hammie) have a concrete definition of a thin client? Is ot a complete dumb terminal or a chromebook?

  113. joepeatf says:

    Well,, actually, it’s the failed past, Peaty, because many people have tried the “software as a service” model and failed. But as it happens, this is an interesting point to discuss.
    I am amused DrLoser…you use Ad hominem. I clap slow, I laugh. “software as a service” model is better, it use monthly subscribition, its better reliable business model. Coders release more security update, it has better updater also (server side codes+thin client almost)

    “software as a service” model, you have newest version always. Its less work, it use 1 branch only, it not need a lot of stable versions. Google use 1 branch always, it does not have a lot of versions. Its a better business opportunity cost.

  114. joepeatf says:

    No, it is not. Consider latency. Ignorant divot.
    DrLoser read between lines, VGA is connected by servers GPU. Electron flow is speed of light, faster as wireless, however VGA has 0 interference. Digital signal has 0 interference. , wireless must be amplitude modulation signal, a lot of interference, however it has very long distence, however thin client need only wire no long distence wireless tech

    I would like to admire your precision in measurement, but unfortunately “a lot of” doesn’t actually mean anything at all. Ignorant divot.
    VGA thin client is connect to servers GPU socket. Servers have a lot of GPU sockets. VGA has 0 interference, also its not limited by bandwidth.

    If network switch has VGA apability, thin client is real time perfection, howecer network switch does not, hence thin client must be connected by VGA wore Im afraid.

    Reading between the gibberish, I think you may have hit on the central point here. Try to explain it to Robert in non-gibberish. Ignorant divot.
    Robert Pogson Moores Law is stopped, however TSMC has better fabricafion then intel. ARM cpu use 10nm FINFET, x86 use 14nm trigate transistor, hence ARM cpu has better speed+efficiency. Also Moores Law is stopped, hence rich client does not have future, power is in ARM server now. intel is dieing, Apple will make Macintosh ARM now, they work fabrication factory in Asia. IPhone benchmark is better then intel core i7

    Inefficently (see REST and locks and so on) but yes. Not ideal but that is the world that LAMP has condemned us to. Ignorant divot.
    Tell Google Linux is not efficient, Tell Facebook PHP is not efficient,

    LAMP stack is outdated, it is LEM.js. Linux+NGINX+no SQL+Node.js. Linux has best IO apability, very good in server, its industry standard, Google+Facebook use Linux. BSD fails

    NGINX is faster then Apache, it use multithreading+thread pool, Apache use multiprocess, not efficient……DrLoser SQL is not efficient. Node.js does not use multithreading, it use async IO, more efficient then multithreading, it does not waste OS thread,, IO is waited in thread1 only, other threads make HTML page….. asp.net must create a lot of IO thread, not efficient. Node.js benchmark is better then asp.net

    Interestingly, not. Leaving aside special-purpose servers, it’s actually difficult to take advantage of GUU and FPGA power. I know this, because I’ve worked for an engineering company that tried to do this. It’s not impossible, but it turns out that the cost of shifting half a gigabyte of raw data from the 8-core to the GPU — in order to do the incredibly efficient matrix maths — is massively increased by moving the results back again.
    DrLoser you must use GPU in a lot of calculation, matrix maths is not a lot of calculation.

    DrLoser get your head out of the sand, IPhone use shared memory, CPU+GPU use same memory. IPhone is weaker then PC, however it not need the cost of shifting half a gigabyte of raw data from the 8-core to the GPU. IPhones shared memory is free, it not need PCI express

    I know, I know. I was surprised too. And I argued for a re-architecture. But this stuff doesn’t come for free, you ignorant divot.
    DrLoser CPU does not have a future, Moores Law is stopped, I’m afraid. Industrys future is GPGPU+FPGA Vulkan API, it has C compute shader language, it complies to SPIRV bytecode. I hate CUDA, however NVIDIA does real time physics in GPGPU compute engine

    But you don’t have a single clue what “deep learning” is, do you?
    “deep learning” is, reinforcement learning, need I say more?

  115. Deaf Spy says:

    Have you ever seen Monochrome Art, Robert? Because that’s what you’d see on a thin client like that. Very pretty, in its monochrome way. But functionally pointless.

    I now sure Robert will point out that one can watch a youtube video on his Odroid which proves (according to Robert) that Odroid is a perfect thin client. Poor thing.

  116. DrLoser says:

    Well, to return on the subject.

    Robert, tell us how you enrich the experience by plugging a projector and speakers to a server. Please, please, pretty please!

    I would assume that the wandering herd will appreciate the video tearing, the audio stuttering, and the periodic comments by the MC that “hang on a moment, this isn’t quite right, we can fix it.”

    Which is basically my experience over the last few years. My last company used decent and powerful Intel servers, driving the “audio/visual experience” across a 10GB network to about 50+ high-end PCs, and that is basically what we got.

    Good enough, if you can’t really be bothered, but not really good at all. I mean, the underlying broadcast software was FLOSS, so what would you expect?

    I shudder to think what horrors I would have been subjected to by enforcing some completely unsubstantiated piece of dreck like the ODroid as a thin client. Or then again, an interesting thought experiment.

    Have you ever seen Monochrome Art, Robert? Because that’s what you’d see on a thin client like that. Very pretty, in its monochrome way. But functionally pointless.

  117. DrLoser says:

    Deaf Spy Headphone jack+VGA is real time thin client,

    No, it is not. Consider latency. Ignorant divot.

    however it has a lot of wire.

    I would like to admire your precision in measurement, but unfortunately “a lot of” doesn’t actually mean anything at all. Ignorant divot.

    Moores Law is stop

    Reading between the gibberish, I think you may have hit on the central point here. Try to explain it to Robert in non-gibberish. Ignorant divot.

    however client does not have horizontal scale.

    Well, “client” (and you still haven’t provided a realistic thin client that anybody in the entire world would want to buy) doesn’t actually have any sort of scale whatsoever, does it? It’s an end-point. You don’t “scale” end-points. You merely judge them on their functional apabilities, you ignorant divot.

    Server use horizontal scale

    Inefficently (see REST and locks and so on) but yes. Not ideal but that is the world that LAMP has condemned us to. Ignorant divot.

    a lot of GPU, FPGA also.

    Interestingly, not. Leaving aside special-purpose servers, it’s actually difficult to take advantage of GUU and FPGA power. I know this, because I’ve worked for an engineering company that tried to do this. It’s not impossible, but it turns out that the cost of shifting half a gigabyte of raw data from the 8-core to the GPU — in order to do the incredibly efficient matrix maths — is massively increased by moving the results back again.

    I know, I know. I was surprised too. And I argued for a re-architecture. But this stuff doesn’t come for free, you ignorant divot.

    Its very good in deep learning.

    You will no doubt be tired of me calling you (with extremely good reason) an ignorant divot. Good news! I’ll stop that.

    But you don’t have a single clue what “deep learning” is, do you?

    One single clue. Nothing to do with thin clients and the OP. You ignorant divot.

  118. kurkosdr says:

    sends me = sent me

  119. kurkosdr says:

    Interestingly, that’s not what you said at the time, and on this site. Remember the arguments we both had about the download size and spec size of ODF vs OOXML?

    No no, don’t get me wrong. I still think OOXML is a poorly documented format that uses weird anti-ISO conventions for things like dates, in the name of backwards compatibility with Doc (why not keep the Doc format itself?) and has the silly transitional/strict duality, but you see, if my professor or university sends me an OOXML document or template, I need to open it and have it formatted perfectly when I hit save. MS Office served me well in that regard because it can handle the OOXML crock.

  120. joepeatf says:

    Deaf Spy Headphone jack+VGA is real time thin client, however it has a lot of wire. Moores Law is stop, however client does not have horizontal scale. Server use horizontal scale, a lot of GPU, FPGA also. Its very good in deep learning

    Deaf Spy technology is growing more powerful, however rich client is not future, Moores Law is stop, however server is growing more powerful, server does not need Moores Law

  121. Deaf Spy says:

    Well, to return on the subject.

    Robert, tell us how you enrich the experience by plugging a projector and speakers to a server. Please, please, pretty please!

  122. DrLoser says:

    Not having any particular peeve with MS Office, it served me well during my postgraduate when most academic templates were OOXML or Doc and everything had to be formatted to a “t”.

    Interestingly, that’s not what you said at the time, and on this site. Remember the arguments we both had about the download size and spec size of ODF vs OOXML?

    Well, maybe not. And maybe best for another time. This particular OP is about making fun of Robert’s incompetent and self-harming miserliness, which as usual he wants to impose on absolutely everybody else, because it is righteous to do so.

    Let’s stay on the subject here. (Switches off “anti-Java mode.”)

  123. DrLoser says:

    I wonder if the non-support for Google Apps natively has to do with this. You see, Google uses JavaScript for Windows but native apps for Android.

    Wonder all you like, Kurks, me duck.

    But just once in you rlife, it might behove you to think back and question your assumptions.

  124. kurkosdr says:

    Not having any particular peeve with MS Office, it served me well during my postgraduate when most academic templates were OOXML or Doc and everything had to be formatted to a “t”.

  125. DrLoser says:

    However, Robert, as you know, I live to serve. If you really, really, want a “thin client” that “makes sense for you” (rather than just about anybody else in the universe), then as usual I have a suggestion.

    US$120 all in. Which includes the case and a 32GB disk and 2GB RAM … unlike the pathetic Ras-Pi wannabe Odroid.

    1.92 GHz, four cores, fanless. Built-in graphics co-processor. Two USB ports. Dual video ports for VGA and HDMI.

    This is a reasonable basis for a popular “thin client,” Robert. People actually buy this.

    You won’t, because it’s US60 more than you want the sticker price to be. And all you care about is the sticker price.

    But let’s assume you are somebody else, and sane. It’s a stretch, I know. But let’s pretend.

    How would you sell this perfectly adequate “thin client” to Joe Blow?

  126. kurkosdr says:

    You’re either pulling this stuff out of your arse, or you’re smoking it. Either way, stop it. You’re beginning to sound as weird as Robert.

    The company I work for makes access to Google Docs, Google Drive and Authenticator a requirement. They even partially subsidise Android or iOS devices for employees. And it’s not some startup, it’s a 20-year old company with half a thousand employees.

    On semi-related news, the Microsoft store run out of Windows Phone devices. I wonder if the non-support for Google Apps natively has to do with this. You see, Google uses JavaScript for Windows but native apps for Android. That way, Google builds customer lock-in on Android but not on Windows. But hey, the purely mythical Surface Phone is coming…

    PS: Doctor, you live in a Microsoft utopia where buying an MS Office license per seat just to have well formatted internal documents makes sense. Good for you I guess…

  127. DrLoser says:

    Deaf Spy SaaS is long term future.

    Well,, actually, it’s the failed past, Peaty, because many people have tried the “software as a service” model and failed. But as it happens, this is an interesting point to discuss.

    Let’s follow the Underpants Gnomes strategy here.

    1) Collect Underpants.
    2) ?
    3) Profit!

    You no doubt have an excellent marketing strategy that more than satisfies point number two.

  128. DrLoser says:

    Google Docs is web app also.

    Well, Google Docs have been around for at least eight years or so. And they’ve always been web-centric.

    Everybody else here has known that for about eight years, and you’ve just figured it out all on your own? Poor little Peaty.

    Web app has better update than native,

    What a fascinating (yet utterly ignorant and devoid of supporting facts) proposition that is. A couple of things here.

    1) Web app updates (and here I insist on Robert’s “thin client model,” which means that you can’t get away with “Google store apps” or the like) don’t use magic pixie dust. You will be surprised (being a clod) that they use precisely the same update mechanism as do “PC updates.” The only difference is that the update occurs on the server, not on the PC. Which is, I grant you, a significant difference … because I have personally seen several “web app updates” roll out over six data centres and about 20,000 servers. Things never go wrong, obviously. Oh, wait …

    2) I subscribe to MLB.com for my baseball news and comments. Their site has been broken on Chrome for about six months now. I used Firefox, as you do when you have no choice. Now their site is broken on Firefox, too. Oh look, magic pixie dust again.

    web app download codes always. microsoft office native does not update, hence its less security update.

    Try that one again in reverse Polish notation. It can’t help but make more sense.

  129. DrLoser says:

    Also, it’s time we stop pretending every corporation needs every employee to create elaborate powerpoints and word documents or open OOXML and is going to buy a Windows license and a MS Office license for the privilege when Google Docs will do.

    I think we’d all have to start pretending that before we stopped pretending it, Kurks.

    You’re either pulling this stuff out of your arse, or you’re smoking it. Either way, stop it. You’re beginning to sound as weird as Robert.

  130. joepeatf says:

    Actually, there is. Modern web apps (and you can thank Google for this) are very heavily JS-driven, meaning they run on the desktop. This is idiotic, total inner-platform anti-pattern, but hey, who said Google built good stuff? Modern web relies on the desktop to run, Robert. Sad little fact that your ignorance of architectures and technologies doesn’t let you perceive.
    Deaf Spy is ignorant. Google Docs is not web app in cell phone, however its a Android iPhone app.

    Web app is not a idiotic, total inner-platform anti-pattern. Web is more cross platform, it has better updater also.

    Deaf Spy SaaS is long term future. Noone has time to get stop by microsoft office bug, bug get fixed fastest by SaaS. Also SaaS you need Chromebook only, it not need hire computer IT prof. I hate microsoft, however even microsoft knows SaaS is better, office365 will make office obsolete lomg term.

  131. joepeatf says:

    Google Docs is web app also. Web app has better update than native, web app download codes always. microsoft office native does not update, hence its less security update.

  132. joepeatf says:

    Google docs is passable only for startups where there is no need for properly formatted content. Short documentation, a simple spreadsheet, yes, Google Docs will kinda do. Provided you don’t go on a limited bandwidth on the road and enjoy seeing how every click takes a second to be processed. Or worse, can’t do a single thing offline. Once your business grows, so do your demands and then MSO is the only viable product out there. Even for Mac users.
    Deaf Spy your contradict yourself. microsoft office is obsolete, office 365 is long term future. Long term microsoft will stop selling office, only sell office 365.

    Google’s Docs has better collabortion then microsoft office, it grows business better.

    Google Docs is more secure than microsoft office. microsoft office has a lot of exploits its made in micorsoft the worst coders also. Google Docs use encryption e2e.

    its in Google’s database also they hire best computer engineers, more secure then on premise database. On premise is less secure than Google.

    microsofts office 365 is competitor, however I use Google Docs since its free.

  133. Deaf Spy says:

    every corporation needs every employee to create elaborate powerpoints and word documents or open OOXML and is going to buy a Windows license and a MS Office license for the privilege when Google Docs will do

    Dream on, Kurks, dream on.

    Google docs is passable only for startups where there is no need for properly formatted content. Short documentation, a simple spreadsheet, yes, Google Docs will kinda do. Provided you don’t go on a limited bandwidth on the road and enjoy seeing how every click takes a second to be processed. Or worse, can’t do a single thing offline. Once your business grows, so do your demands and then MSO is the only viable product out there. Even for Mac users.

  134. Kurkosdr says:

    Also, I’ll have some of what you’re smoking, please.

    I don’t smoke anything. Smoking is an expensive and health-damaging habit that also clogs cooling fans.

    BTW, as a millennial, I remember several popular services (MSN Messenger, MSN voice calls, Windows Media Player) that were Windows exclusives. Even RealPlayer was once. If Microsoft had kept its online services ecosystem alive instead sitting idly while iTunes and Google were eating away their dominance perhaps we wouldn’t be talking about the failure of Microsoft’s smartphone ambitions today.

    Also, it’s time we stop pretending every corporation needs every employee to create elaborate powerpoints and word documents or open OOXML and is going to buy a Windows license and a MS Office license for the privilege when Google Docs will do.

    But of course, you haven’t actually said anything in your post, my dear Doctor. Not anything that is falsifiable, but anything at all.

    PS: Does Windows Phone have official apps for Google Drive, Google Docs and Authenticator? Network effects my dear Doctor…

  135. DrLoser says:

    One powerful feature of the ODROID-C2 is an SD 3.01 standard compatible UHS-1 MicroSD card, as well as the faster eMMC module, can be ordered with the ODROID-C2, and arrives with the popular Ubuntu operating system already installed. Insert the MicroSD card into the slot, connect a monitor, a keyboard, a mouse, Ethernet and power cable, and that’s all you need to do to use the ODROID-C2!

    So that’s another ~US$50 before I even think about ordering me up my VT102 “thin client” character based terminal, Robert.

    This gets more and more hilarious every time you try to pull the same stupid con trick.

    Face it old man — you’re in a vanishing minority of people who can’t actually afford a real computer. (Or at least pretend you can’t.)

  136. DrLoser says:

    See how that inner-platform chips away at Microsoft’s network effects?

    No, not really, Kurks, but thank you for pretending to play.

    Also, I’ll have some of what you’re smoking, please.

  137. DrLoser says:

    The ODROID-C2 is a 64-bit quad-core single board computer(SBC) that is one of the most cost-effective 64bit development boards available in the ARM world.

    Finally you’ve got the guts to come up with one, Robert. And what a piece of shit it is. US$46 for this?
    It’s a development board. It doesnt have a keyboard. It doesn’t have a mouse. It doesn’t have a monitor, much less a GPU that can deal with web-pages and the like.

    Oh, and the shipping is probably at least US$5 more.

    What a pathetic waste of everybody’s time, Robert. It’s taken you a week, and this is the best you can come up with?

    No wonder nobody uses thing clients any more.

  138. kurkosdr says:

    additional company = ad company (Google’s UK English dictionary apparently doesn’t have the word “ad”)

  139. kurkosdr says:

    Modern web apps (and you can thank Google for this) are very heavily JS-driven, meaning they run on the desktop. This is idiotic, total inner-platform anti-pattern

    It might be an inner-platform, but it is a multi-OS, multi-architecture and widely available inner platform. As long as the machine you use has a relatively modern browser, you can run JavaScript apps. YouTube is a good example. Compare and contrast with having to have Windows Media Player to play an mms link, or having to install some plugin that is OS specific or architecture specific, which is the future Microsoft wanted with WMV, or with SilverLight.

    Then there is Google Drive and Google docs, which is what the company I work for uses for internal documents in place of SharePoint and MS Office it because Google Docs works well enough and also runs on the Ubuntu machines we use to run (Linux) docker images. Only marketing still uses Microsoft Office.

    See how that inner-platform chips away at Microsoft’s network effects? Anti-pattern or not it chips away at OS and architecture dependence. Because Google is an additional company that views OSes and architectures as “players”. And so do users.

  140. DrLoser says:

    Gutless.

  141. DrLoser says:

    You don’t even have one, do you, Robert?

  142. DrLoser says:

    One single US$50 thin client.

  143. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser Deaf Spy Grece Kurkosdr please do research, your ignorant. Robert Pogson buy used in Ebay, it is very cheap however not a US$50

    Welcome back, Doldy. It’s been a while.

    Now, about those used Ras-Pis (sans absolutely anthing at all, let alone a monitor) … it’s nice to know that you can’t help yourself, and keep on lashing pointless quotes around. From India, no less. I could probably post a Ras-Pi board (brand new!) to Robert and leave the postage as a nothing.

    Pah.

    Now, Robert. Just for once. Stop hiding behind the red leather miniskirts and fishnet stocking and ludicrous spurious links.

    Your choice of a US$50 thin client.

    Come on,, old man. Don’t be a pathetic gutless old dweeb.

    Tell us.

  144. Deaf Spy says:

    RAM is cheap and plentiful for servers as is computing power and storage. Most of us are doing a lot on the web anyway. There’s not much difference between a web-application running on a server somewhere or a desktop application running on a server in the building.

    Robert’s silly notion of Moore’s Law distracted everyone from the silliness above.

    RAM is cheap

    Robert, when was the last time you bought RAM for a server? Never?

    There’s not much difference between a web-application running on a server somewhere or a desktop application running on a server in the building.

    Actually, there is. Modern web apps (and you can thank Google for this) are very heavily JS-driven, meaning they run on the desktop. This is idiotic, total inner-platform anti-pattern, but hey, who said Google built good stuff? Modern web relies on the desktop to run, Robert. Sad little fact that your ignorance of architectures and technologies doesn’t let you perceive.

    Thin clients are dead. The remaining working ones in some enterprises are there to enable some old desktop software keep working in a virtualized environment. Or where some vendor successfully fooled the management to deploy Citrix.

  145. kurkosdr says:

    My ignorant what, you illiterate twat? I want to hit you and Hammie on the head with a thick dictionary.

  146. joepeatf says:

    DrLoser Deaf Spy Grece Kurkosdr please do research, your ignorant. Robert Pogson buy used in Ebay, it is very cheap however not a US$50

    http://www.ebay.in/itm/RASPBERRY-PI-ZERO-W-and-Case-with-wireless-LAN-and-Bluetooth-connectivity/332458225067
    http://www.ebay.in/itm/Raspberry-Pi-3-Model-B-1-2-GHz-64-bit-quad-core-ARM-with-WiFi-Bluetooth/232486724738
    delhi.craigslist.co.in/syd/d/used-new-desktop-laptops-and/6556869485.html

    China is good also, they sell very cheap

  147. DrLoser says:

    And, opn a parallel subject, give us a clue how expensive you think it is to “maintain a file-system and an OS” for “thick clients,” Robert.

    Given the blatant fact that everybody (from Red Hat and Microsoft and Google downwards) has had a centralised method of doing this for about ten years — admittedly that is ten years more than your “theoretical” experience in the hot-house environment of networking the Far North — it’s actually hard to see how the thin-ness of a client makes any difference.”

    Except in one obvious case, of course. If your thin client is nothing much more than a VT102, then, well, God help you on those fine-grained, domain-wide, policy-based, centrally-administered file-system and OS upgrades that you, with no knowledge of competence whatsoever, seem to feel are an absolutely essential part of getting a network of computers to work.

    But, do prove me wrong. Let’s start with that US$50 “thin client.” Link to it. And then explain how you maintain it.

  148. DrLoser says:

    Deaf Spy wrote, “Robert conveniently forgets that these $50 don’t include a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor.”

    Others conveniently forget the malware roaming TOOS and that notebooks have really small monitors and bad keyboards …

    … and and and …

    Let us stipulate that we shall return to the malware and the notebooks and the small monitors and so on, Robert.

    You have conspicuously failed to offer up a link to this modern marvel of a US$50 “thin client,” which apparently satisfies your every need (projector and hi-fi speakers optional for the gawkers in the room, of course).

    It’s been two days, Robert.

    Fess up, give us a link, or get off the pot and piss into the wilderness.

  149. Deaf Spy wrote, “Robert conveniently forgets that these $50 don’t include a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor.”

    Others conveniently forget the malware roaming TOOS and that notebooks have really small monitors and bad keyboards and pointing devices. When I refer to a desktop computer, I compare with ATX boxes, you know, stuff where the power supply or the case may cost as much as the nice ARMed boxes out there.

  150. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi is an idiot, that’s for sure.

    I think Robert’s fables $50 thin client is a Odroid or some similar useless crap. Of course, Robert conveniently forgets that these $50 don’t include a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor.

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!

    Only idiots do. These same idiots who would write that “A projector and speakers on a server can enrich the experience.” This is so stupid that it even hurts.

  151. Grece says:

    No one uses thin clients anymore Robert, PERIOD!

  152. DrLoser says:

    And so we return to “thin clients.”

    This astonishingly worthwhile thin client costing US$50 (I scale up, as with Moore’s Law), old man. Where can I buy one of those?

    What does it promise to do?

    And have you bought one yourself?

    And why would I feel the need to save $50 per year for five years (remember: my original estimate of amortisation) in order to suffer for my computational sveltitude?

  153. DrLoser says:

    Then there’s the cost of maintaining the file-system and OS.

    Y’know, I used to be a millionaire with a mansion and a pony track out back. And then I was hit by the cost of maintaining my file-system and OS. I didn’t see it coming. Let this be a lesson to all of you out there!

    Now I live in a shack in Winnipeg, just down the road from Robert Pogson. I use the same file system and OS, but blamed if I know how he can survive on what little money is left after paying for the maintenance of the file-system and OS.

    This might actually be the most miserably pathetic argument you have ever put up in twelve or more years of this site, Robert.

  154. DrLoser says:

    I’m ignoring Peaty because he is an idiot. I recommend this approach to everybody else. Now, on to the meat of the issue:

    ML is not about gHz, but bits of logic, transistors etc.

    I do hope you are being deliberately disingenuous, Robert: because otherwise, you just come across as being ignorant and out of date. How, pray, do you think that Moore’s Law/Conjecture worked for so long? Basically by cramming things into an ever smaller space and ramping up the frequency (and the heat, btw, but I know you don’t like to hear that), right? Right.

    “Bits of logic,” whatever you might mean by that … and I assume you are talking about their physical representation, which — what do you know? — comes down to transistors … and “transistors” are precisely why Moore’s Law/Conjecture has hit it’s limit on a single core. What with Josephson Tunnelling and indeed simple interference between “transistors” at the nano-level, there’s no room left to shrink.

    But of course, Robert, you know this. Which is why you added the “etc.” Your qualifications in Physics are far ahead of mine, so I am quite confident that you will be able to explain that “etc.”

    What are we at? 50billion bits on a chip?

    Can we have some context on this hand-wavy assertion? RAM? Something with a dimension, such as “throughput?” What on earth do you mean? And why would 50 billion be the magic number, rather than say 10 million?

    The throughput of a single chip can easily keep up with a roomfull of humans pointing, clicking and gawking.

    At last, a testable hypothesis. Link to such a roomful, Robert. Here, I’ll help you and save time. Key Largo, Florida!

    A projector and speakers on a server can enrich the experience.

    Big on interactive pointing and clicking by a roomful of people, are projectors and speakers…

    … actually, no, they are not.

    And incidentally they have nothing whatsoever to do with Thin Clients. You’re losing what little of your own plot you can remember, old man.

  155. kurkosdr says:

    Yeah, long term ever since the X Windowing System got released. I can’t wait for Asphalt 8 to be streamed over the network (the same network that cannot handle an 1-hour Skype call without glitching) and my camera to send the photos for HDR+ processing to a remote server over a flakey mobile internet connection.

    You see? Not even Google will do that (despite vague promises of so).

    Also, Netflix would be a lot worse experience if all interaction logic was processed by a remote server. It seems to me you have confused thin-client computing with remote storage.

  156. joepeatf says:

    Also, Netflix is not a thin-client app either. It seems to me you can’t tell the difference between a thin client and a client, not that the people peddling them have a concrete definition of the “thin” qualifier either, but calling an app that drives video playback and most of the interaction logic itself a thin client app (do thin clients do apps btw?) is not true by any stretch of the term.
    Kurkosdr please think long term. Power distribution go to server since it use horizontal scale, client does not have horizontal scale. If server is more powerful time over the x axis thin client need less power. Long term all apps will stream GUI, thin client does not need powerful hardware. long term thin client need only video card, however it not need powerful video card.

  157. kurkosdr says:

    Yeah the Snapdragon 835 CPU my HTC U11+ has is a thin-client CPU, and games like Asphalt 8 are thin client apps. The Camera and it’s HDR+ algorithms and 4K video processing are thin-client apps too. Get lost.

    Also, Netflix is not a thin-client app either. It seems to me you can’t tell the difference between a thin client and a client, not that the people peddling them have a concrete definition of the “thin” qualifier either, but calling an app that drives video playback and most of the interaction logic itself a thin client app (do thin clients do apps btw?) is not true by any stretch of the term.

  158. joepeatf says:

    Moore’s Law (more appropriately, a conjecture) is effectively dead in the water, Robert. Do try to keep up. When is the last time you saw a 5GHz cpu?
    Moore’s Law worked to ramp up power in the servers, however it not need power in the clients. The cloud use horizontal scaling. A lot of cheap server is buyed and more server=transistors.

    Drloser server is more than a 5GHz cpu? Google’s newest data center at The Dalles of Oregen, a 164,000-square foot building that opened in 2016, brought its total investment in that site to $1.2 billion. The overall size totals 352,000 square feet of data center divided among three buildings. Hence 352,000 server bottom*10 server verticals*three buildings. *4 GHz CPU=42240000 GHz power. It is more then thick client CPU. I underestimated, Google’s TPU will be next revolution, I believe it will replace CPU. Long term ML will make programmer job obsolete. Bob can use Fifth-generation programming language now. So basically he teach computers in english. Bob is data scientist.

    Which is why, in the vast plurality of cases, thin clients are effectively useless. You are artificially limiting what a client, of whatever power, can do. Leaving aside the latency of the “clicks,” and the artificial restriction to a RESTful system (which is basically CRUD without the U), even showing the pix turns out to be quite an expensive operation.
    Google Docs is thin client app also. Google Docs majority codes in server only, it send GUI drawing commands. Basically so thin client do the rendering itself only. It has very good latency.

    Your paragraph is not true in 2018. Thin client has always stream video. Netflix stream is very complex, however thin client it is real time. Long term all apps will stream GUI, thin client does not need powerful hardware.

  159. joepeatf says:

    To further expand our doctor’s excellent analysis, a common problem with “thin clients” is how much of the UI rendering will take place on the thin client and how much on the server. Do you just feed the thin client a grid of pixels, TeamViewer-style? (transferring only the pixels that change yadda yadda). Wouldn’t that cause a strain on the server and most importantly the network and terrible latency? Do you feed your thin client GUI drawing commands so it can do the rendering itself? If so, won’t the thinness of the client restrict what you can render and require client-side upgrades to support new GUI commands? How do you deal with 3D drawing (don’t just think games but GUI effects and 3D charts with transparencies and such) and new requirements when it comes to 3D drawing?
    Kurkosdrs head is stuck in sand. Thin client has been in top market share for long time. Android/Netflix is thin client, Facebook is also. Android is top major market share, is not thin client? Android is thin client almost, however it draws GUI only. Netflix is thin client app, it stream video.

    Facebook is thin client app. Android app only use GUI, however server is very powerful. Moores law is dead, however server use horizontal scale. Hence it is impossible to make Facebook thick client only, Facebook is centralized only. Simple fact is thick client does not have future. Kurkosdr please know your facts.

    Google Docs is thin client app also. Google Docs majority codes in server only, it send GUI drawing commands. Basically so thin client do the rendering itself only. It has very good latency.

    Your paragraph is not true in 2018. Thin client has always stream video. Netflix stream is very complex, however thin client it is real time. Long term all apps will stream GUI, thin client does not need powerful hardware.

    So basically kurkosdr use false facts to support narrative.

    At that point, unless we are talking about MHL monitors or super-dumb, super-latency TeamViewer terminals that hog the network, the answer to the question of what kind of thin client you need starts depending heavily on the use case, requirements, application, environment and the like, making a standardised thin-client (with a standardised protocol and hardware profile, remember not having to upgrade the software or the hardware is the main sell here) impossible.
    Kurkosdr please do not make me repeat, thin client latency is good. Google Docs is real time, keyboard type is sent to server. Netflix is real time stream service, thin client only+powerful server, long term thin client need only video card, however it not need powerful video card.

  160. kurkosdr says:

    MHL (damn you autocorrect)

  161. kurkosdr says:

    Facts not in evidence.

    Facts are in evidence, doofuses like you can’t see them. A $50 thin client is little more than an NHL monitor, read my post below why this is bad.

  162. DrLoser wrote, “when you can buy a thin client for about $200 and an actual fully featured PC for about $300.”

    Facts not in evidence. Nice TCs are sub-$50 and power consumption 10% of a typical PC. Then there’s the cost of maintaining the file-system and OS.

  163. DrLoser wrote, “When is the last time you saw a 5GHz cpu?”

    ML is not about gHz, but bits of logic, transistors etc. What are we at? 50billion bits on a chip? The throughput of a single chip can easily keep up with a roomfull of humans pointing, clicking and gawking. A projector and speakers on a server can enrich the experience.

  164. kurkosdr says:

    To further expand our doctor’s excellent analysis, a common problem with “thin clients” is how much of the UI rendering will take place on the thin client and how much on the server. Do you just feed the thin client a grid of pixels, TeamViewer-style? (transferring only the pixels that change yadda yadda). Wouldn’t that cause a strain on the server and most importantly the network and terrible latency? Do you feed your thin client GUI drawing commands so it can do the rendering itself? If so, won’t the thinness of the client restrict what you can render and require client-side upgrades to support new GUI commands? How do you deal with 3D drawing (don’t just think games but GUI effects and 3D charts with transparencies and such) and new requirements when it comes to 3D drawing?

    At that point, unless we are talking about MHL monitors or super-dumb, super-latency TeamViewer terminals that hog the network, the answer to the question of what kind of thin client you need starts depending heavily on the use case, requirements, application, environment and the like, making a standardised thin-client (with a standardised protocol and hardware profile, remember not having to upgrade the software or the hardware is the main sell here) impossible.

    The real world has found the solution to this problem, which is either a Javascript browser or Java EE running on a proper “fat” client, which thanks to advances in Moore’s law (yet doctor, it’s alive, just focusing on more cores or less power consumption) won’t cost that much and is actually future-proof. But you see, those “fat” clients run operating systems that people actually want to use (and by definition made by evil corporations like Microsoft or Google), which is the thing that really annoys the FOSS people.

  165. DrLoser says:

    Thin clients always seemed like a great idea for me.

    Ah, the Mrs Malaprop of Manitoba. When talking to yourself, Robert, you indeed mean “for,” because your needs are small, shabby, and extraordinarily cheap.

    When talking of the other 7 billion people in the world, however, I think you intended to use “to.”

    The trouble is, for the vast plurality of the other 7 billion people, thin clients neither solve their problems, nor seem like a good idea to them.

    As Moore’s Law worked to ramp up power in the servers,

    Moore’s Law (more appropriately, a conjecture) is effectively dead in the water, Robert. Do try to keep up. When is the last time you saw a 5GHz cpu?

    … the lowly thin client just had to show the pix and send the clicks.

    Which is why, in the vast plurality of cases, thin clients are effectively useless. You are artificially limiting what a client, of whatever power, can do. Leaving aside the latency of the “clicks,” and the artificial restriction to a RESTful system (which is basically CRUD without the U), even showing the pix turns out to be quite an expensive operation.

    Open Chrome on your diseased ten year old PC of choice. (It doesn’t even have to be a “thin client.”) Choose your website of choice. Watch as the endless streams of Javascript from remote sources repopulate the window on your browser. Watch as the “pix” move up and down and up again, because even a “thick” client has difficulty keeping up with these “pix.”

    As usual, it’s a cost/benefit balance, Robert. And since your preferred cost metric tends to zero, your benefit metric tends to the same value.

    Hey, it’s a free world (or in your case a dumpster-dived world, but we can agree that the two are basically congruent). Have at it, old man!

    Just don’t expect anybody else to put up with the same tiresome crap. Particularly when you can buy a thin client for about $200 and an actual fully featured PC for about $300. To sane people, the difference in price over a five year lifetime is immaterial.

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