Rome Moves On

“In 2018, Rome will run a pilot to test the use of workstations running Linux. Some of the IT support staff already have much experience with Linux servers and workstations, which should help resolve possible issues with network drives, shared folders and peripherals such as printers.
 
Rome’s IT department is supporting the city council’s wish to get rid of IT vendor lock-in, says Ms Colasanti, “We are working together closely, for without their support, change won’t happen.””
 
See Contract Overhaul
Yes, a new generation of IT guys and gals are liberating Rome from non-Free software ASAP. They’ve mapped all their applications and will expand the use of FLOSS immediately and search for the best way to deploy GNU/Linux on workstations. It’s all good and it’s about time. They could have done this 20 years ago if they’d had the vision but it’s better to do it late than never.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in politics, technology and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

60 Responses to Rome Moves On

  1. Grece says:

    Has anyone noticed of late, that Hammy’s writing seems different then what it use to be in the past? I think he finally has taken some medication, not that it matters much in his case as he is a lowly simpleton, but nonetheless, I can detect a difference in his style.

  2. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Actually, they almost succeeded with that. Unfortunately, the Indian decided to step back from 8.1 and 10 looks more like a iPhone-clone than “Metro”.

    It depends on where you stand on the issue I suppose, one that supports the “Brave New Metro” way might be more inclined to interpret W8 market share as something of a success.

    I, however, do not stand there, nor do I come to such conclusions; in fact, I see things as precisely the opposite – Microsoft constantly succeeded because their products kept their predecesors’ strenghts and (over time accumulated) added benefits of their own, the latter soon overshadowing the former.

    Windows Metro rejects (in visuals) both Windows-on-the-desktop and Wind– sorry, obviously I mean to say iOS-on-the-phone; it was a self defeating “strategy” if you want to call it that, from the beggining.

    Proof? Consider how MS tried to boost Metro by forcing it down the throats of desktop users; instead of the expected new trend, W8 (and W10 as well) simply tanked.

    I’d say the foolish experiment’s results speak for themselves.

    (The argument applies to Linux as well, as you can all see, or so I hope.)

  3. wizard emiritus says:

    No more words for self admitted liars – I bid you adieu.

  4. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus have you not notice that kurkosdr never responds to your posts.

    You being a jackass with me means you get ignore.

    Mr. K. Whether or not windows has the problem is irrelevant.

    Also this line says that
    According to insiders, they removed Windows Media Player from Windows 10 in latest upgrade. There goes my minimalistic media player with nice interface (a rare combination).
    what he refer to here is not important.

    So the process of fixing stuff does hurt end users. Linux method has been brutal but Microsoft is coming just as brutal at the moment.

    What there is is an opinion that is based on my real experience
    Basically being a complete jerk and not reading or understanding that I was answering the problem he had suffered from. Since so call real experience allowed you to ignore the people being harmed you get to lie and pretend it does not exist because people keep on using stuff.

    Basically your have a personal bias and are lieing using it.

  5. wizard emiritus says:

    “Mr. K. Whether or not windows has the problem is irrelevant.
    There is one of your lies straight there. ”

    It would help if you quoted the entire line, sir. Here let me help you…

    “Mr. K. Whether or not windows has the problem is irrelevant. Since windows is still useful to a large number of people the problems will get fixed or has been long fixed by the ISV’s if they even still exist.”

    There is no “lie” here. What there is is an opinion that is based on my real experience, not on what I looked up on the somewhere then passed of as my own like some one I know.

    “wizard emiritus the reality is your garbage responses are allow you to skip out on admitting your mistakes. ”

    Thats interesting… And how is one supposed to know ones mistakes when the only one “noticing” them is a self admitted liar.

    Now that you have had way more words than you deserve, I bid you adieu.

  6. Deaf Spy says:

    they went for “something completely different

    Actually, they almost succeeded with that. Unfortunately, the Indian decided to step back from 8.1 and 10 looks more like a iPhone-clone than “Metro”.

  7. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus
    Mr. K. Whether or not windows has the problem is irrelevant.
    There is one of your lies straight there.

    I know that I have not lied
    LOL another fib. You believe you have not lied without double checking your facts. So you are wrong and lie about it all the time. I catch you making these mistakes all the time and you straight up just say I am not debating with me and attempt to pretend you have not make a mistake.

    wizard emiritus the reality is your garbage responses are allow you to skip out on admitting your mistakes. So its not what you are calling me is the problem. Its calling me stuff to avoid admitting your errors is the problem.

  8. wizard emiritus says:

    I missed this one…

    “wizard emiritus You can call it what you will. It makes no difference to me”

    If it did not make a difference to you, you would stop responding once called out. the fact that you continue to come at me while saying this shows you to be the true liar in this regard.

  9. wizard emiritus says:

    “One day wizard emiritus will learn.”

    I have already learned. I will not debate a self admitted liar and fraud, nor will I accept your “Proof” of my “lies” because I know that I have not lied

    As far as insulting posts are concerned, you have more than earned them over the years with your abusive language.

    That is why I have no words for you beyond these.

  10. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus You can call it what you will. It makes no difference to me.

    Really I call you out for the double standard person you are and the idiot who followed idiots for years attacking people without valid grounds. Please note I have proven you incompetence with cites before. So you have been caught telling fibs as well. There is one difference between you and me wizard emiritus. I owned up to it. Instead of owning up to it you just do these insulting posts instead of being truthful about what you have done. One day wizard emiritus will learn.

  11. wizard emiritus says:

    “Again double standard. ”

    Says the poster whom I do not consider any kind of expert or as having any kind of authority. I remind you sir that you are an admitted liar when it suits you. That in the end is why I have no words for you beyond calling you out.

    You can call it what you will. It makes no difference to me.

  12. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus
    I do not accept you as any kind of expert on anything other than the misuse of internet lookup.
    Again double standard. Deafspy and others get caught doing wild guesses. Also you have been caught using invalid information as well.

    An Out Of Phase Transistor
    MS has yet to embrace the iPhone (I know it’s hard to believe).
    What are you talking about. Microsoft does ship MS Office for iPhone. So they do attempt to engage with iphone. Apples app store rules forbid a lot of extending.

    https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
    Pays to read.

    Apple understood Microsoft prior behaviors and wrote rules to counter it.

    So Microsoft has embraced iphone. Cannot do the extend bit. That point the triple EEE game plan falls flat on the floor and you now need another game plan.

    This is Microsoft problem not being able to EEE Microsoft does not do as well.

  13. Kurkosdr says:

    Hmm… Good points. Windows Phone was ugly and a bit Spartan (no copy paste for example).

  14. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    User experience – the first thing you (well, at least myself and anyone I talked to about it, back then) think is “Windows Vista, on your phone.”

    iPhone was the first product that brought Windows desktop and “fancy-factor” on the phone, this is why it became a category all by itself. Samsung et al immediately copied, they went even further with their “Bliss-like” wallpapers for their tablets – it was all about bringing the “feel” of the (Windows) desktop to the new products.

    The only company that didn’t do this — wait for it — was Microsoft… they went for “something completely different,” I suppose it would be a good joke if done by John Cleese, in a real world setting however, it crashed and burned. Exactly like Linux… and for the exact same reason.

    Go figure.

  15. Kurkosdr says:

    and they are still failing to “embrace” the true reason – hint: it’s something Jobs stole from MS

    What is that? Care to define it? The only thing I can think of is treating the API as a franchise to create an “app ecosystem” which is the official story.

  16. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    @Kurkos

    All fine and well, except for that tiny little problem:

    MS has yet to embrace the iPhone (I know it’s hard to believe).

    (Oh, they’re certainly trying to do – well, not anymore, ahem – a “smartphone” in an attempt to emulate the story Jobs told to the press, except that the story was a lie, just like the bullshit about the garrage; what MS still doesn’t understand, is why the iPhone succeded in the first place… and they are still failing to “embrace” the true reason – hint: it’s something Jobs stole from MS.)

  17. Deaf Spy wrote, “It’s been five days since Robert has ranted about Trump. This is not good.”

    Even a train wreck lasting this long becomes boring…

  18. Deaf Spy says:

    Btw, I am getting worried. It’s been five days since Robert has ranted about Trump. This is not good.

  19. Deaf Spy says:

    I do not accept you as any kind of expert on anything other than the misuse of internet lookup.

    In fact, the only person who says he find Fifi as a tech expert is our pal Robert. No one/ else on any forum has ever, ever considered Fifi as an expert in anything.

  20. wizard emiritus says:

    ” Really you don’t want to admit to yourself that its a double standard. Particularly when those frauds totally had taken you in.”

    Since you seem to need this, I will clarify this again.

    I do not accept you as any kind of expert on anything other than the misuse of internet lookup.

    Again, Deal with it.

  21. oiaohm says:

    To clarify, Its not a double standard if its YOUR standard.
    wizard emiritus LOL. Really you don’t want to admit to yourself that its a double standard. Particularly when those frauds totally had taken you in.

    Really it took me playing the cards the way I did to get you to stop backing some of the deceptive idiots. Really you are just posting junk when I point out you have made an error.

    wizard emiritus besides these half assed posts of yours is just so you don’t have admit you have stuffed up an point of view again and been caught out by me one again. Really you want me to ignore you posts so you will be free to be a fraud again is that not the case wizard emiritus.

  22. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus you respond to other people who are caught out frauds so nothing like being double standard..”

    To clarify, Its not a double standard if its YOUR standard.

    Deal with it.

  23. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus you respond to other people who are caught out frauds so nothing like being double standard..

    kurkosdr
    1) Have near monopoly marketshare, so people don’t care about incompatibilites with other products because those products (and the people using them) are outliers (for example, at the peak of IE’s marketshare, web designers did not care how their website looked on Netscape and didn’t bother to make their website also look good on Netscape because those users were outliers).
    2) Have the ability to offer such a great product that the cost of incompatibility caused by the extension (which will not work with competitor’s products) is justified to the eyes of the user. Basically, the extension has to be so good that the cost of using it and not being compatible with your friends and coworkers is worth it.

    You have missed when this has failed.
    https://www.javaworld.com/article/2074908/sun–microsoft-settle-java-lawsuit.html
    The results of 2001 means
    Well, if Bill Gates run the place, he would make Windows Phone compatible with Android APIs, or at least mostly compatible
    Means mostly compatible is not a option in most cases. Oracle vs Google over android was also caused by mostly compatible. Basically mostly compatible equals how to be sued. Wine project where what is implemented matches is about as close as you can get inside the current legal framework without being sued. So no extending with new features.

    Windows Subsystem for Linux comes out of Microsoft attempt to make a Android subsystem for windows phone. Reality is if MS-DOS was released in todays legal framework against CP/M it would not get to market it would have been bound up in court cases.

    But you see, every Microsoft CEO since then has been reluctant of doing such a thing, at the fear of an investor revolt.
    Nothing to-do with investors. Legal rules changed. Even in areas where there is not the money to attack doing EEE is being not that effective. Like ODF extending it with OOXML features that Microsoft did with MS Office all that happened was all other implementer ignored what they did and declared Microsoft implementation broken.

    You also have to remember the Samba case where Microsoft has been legally pulled to the Samba table in 2007.

    Steve Ballmer 2000-2014 as CEO of Microsoft had to deal with the legal fall out Bill Gates prior action caused. So lot of Bill Gates old game plays were not legal and no one had taken Bill Gates to court at the time to find out.

    Its like Qualcomm and Windows phone.

    Ironically, Google was closer to this business model in the first years of the smartphone OS wars than Microsoft.
    Early google on phones looks EEE. But there is a reality before Android there was many Linux phone makers using their own unique API/ABIs. So Google had something existing to embrace in the process of embrace brought all those individual entities to the same table. You find all those individual entities submitting modifications to Android these days.

    So Google Android implementation of EEE is different it includes the importance of cooperation with each of the parties being embraced so you do not get sued. Missing Oracle end up with Google sued.

    kurkosdr Xbox console was done under Steve Ballmer. The console did not need compatibility with anything else or to be dealing with other hardware vendors.

    The dominate phone OS before Android was Symbian OS. Microsoft phone OS never got dominate. Is there anything the same between Android and Symbian OS. Yes the vendor of hardware always had full access to the source code of the software they had to deploy so they could pass carrier and government audits by showing them everything. There are reasons why there are Android phones out there that don’t ship with Google Play installed because that stuff cannot be audited.

    Where has the old (embrace-extend-extinguish, remember that TM) Microsoft gone?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
    Basically its become illegal under anti-trust laws. So Microsoft has to attempt to win without that style of game play. Turns out Microsoft is having a hard time in different markets where they are no longer allowed to-do that.

    Bill Gates stands down in 2000 because legal cases over Embrace Extend and Extinguish had already started. Leaving Steve Ballmer to clean up the mess.

    The reality here is a lot of the stunts that got Microsoft market share no longer legally work.

  24. kurkosdr says:

    To give you a sense of how Microsoft can swoop into a new market and win, remember the following era:

    It’s turn of the century and Sony is saying right and left that the PlayStation 2 is a living room supercomputer ™ and says people will have to pay an arm and a leg to get it, despite the fact the damn thing has no internal storage, needs an accessory to allow more than two controllers and doesn’t even have a network interface out of the box. Then Microsoft comes, and they offer a competitive product with a harddrive, with 4 controller ports, embedded network interface, the same price. And they also spend untold amounts of money to buy ports from ex-Dreamcast publishers but also design their own first-party games. Then Microsoft drags Sony into a price cut competition, to the point both companies are begging people to take their money since they are losing money on every console sold. You see, both Sony and Microsoft knew what was going on with those price cuts, and didn’t want to make the same mistake IBM did with OS/2. Eventually Microsoft becomes and equal player to Sony out of nowhere.

    This is a story of how Microsoft can win even in a market where EEE is irrelevant (because everything is proprietary).

    This kind of business move has the name of one man on it: Bill, f#@king, Gates.

    Ironically, Google was closer to this business model in the first years of the smartphone OS wars than Microsoft.

  25. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus thing remember this is a public forum not a private chat. So you really have no place to attempting to define who responds to what you post.”

    But I do have the right to choose whose words I will to respond to. Since you have proven to be an admitted liar and have been caught out as a fraud in the past I have no words for you beyond informing you of that fact or messages like this one where I clarify my position.

  26. kurkosdr says:

    Where has the old (embrace-extend-extinguish, remember that TM) Microsoft gone?

    In order to do the “extend” phase, you either have to:
    1) Have near monopoly marketshare, so people don’t care about incompatibilites with other products because those products (and the people using them) are outliers (for example, at the peak of IE’s marketshare, web designers did not care how their website looked on Netscape and didn’t bother to make their website also look good on Netscape because those users were outliers).
    2) Have the ability to offer such a great product that the cost of incompatibility caused by the extension (which will not work with competitor’s products) is justified to the eyes of the user. Basically, the extension has to be so good that the cost of using it and not being compatible with your friends and coworkers is worth it.

    Now, #2 is extremely hard to do, especially with Google as a competitor. And I doubt Microsoft ever did #2. Which leaves #1. How does Microsoft get marketshare? Well, if Bill Gates run the place, he would make Windows Phone compatible with Android APIs, or at least mostly compatible (think of how MS-DOS was compatible with CP/M, or how the first IE was compatible with the HTML standards of the era) so the app situation is resolved. No more game developers having to port engines to DirectX for example or having to use other alien APIs. Then, he would dump the product hard, selling at cost or even below that, much like he did with MS-DOS, IE, and even with Windows (OS/2 cost multiples times more than Windows). After Microsoft has become the default choice because it is such a good deal, he would start introducing this and that extension.

    But you see, every Microsoft CEO since then has been reluctant of doing such a thing, at the fear of an investor revolt. Funny thing is that such a move would probably be regarded as bullish by investors.

    —-

    Basically, this is one of the two reasons Microsoft lost the smartphone market: They are phobic at spending money and for that reason everything they do is half-hearted. Not pricing the phones low enough, not paying devs well enough, not putting in too many R&D so all the features competitors have are there etc etc The other reason is trying to do the “extend and extringuish” part while they are in fact the outliers.

  27. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    “Speaking of Windows, I am quite perplexed by Nadella’s inadequate decision to save some money […]”

    They can’t fix it, they still haven’t a clue as to what to do, unbeliveable.

    Where has the old (embrace-extend-extinguish, remember that TM) Microsoft gone?

  28. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    Public health notice: stop talking to Hammie, you know you don’t want to.

    No folks, not even a word, it’s bad for him don’t you know. The medicine he can’t afford to buy isn’t strong enough to help him in the first place, not to mention he never takes the stuff his non-existant witch-doctor advised him not to… hahahaha… well, still above Ham-level-coherency…

    Right, Hammie?

  29. oiaohm says:

    https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2010/02/15/qualcomm-becomes-first-chipset-company-support-microsoft-windows-phone-7
    kurkosdr but Windows Phone 7 is under Steve Ballmer management. Remember Qualcomm does not play fair with patents. So Qualcomm being the only provider of Windows phones starts 2010 using is brute force in the market to push other makers out the way.

    Steve Ballmer 2000 to 2014 he run Microsoft and its those years that set Windows Phone doom. Nadella from 2014 to now had a collapsing house because of the deals made by Steve Ballmer before his time had doomed Windows Phone.

    https://techcrunch.com/2011/08/15/breaking-google-buys-motorola-for-12-5-billion/
    Google acquires Motorola Mobility in 2011 to protect the different makers of Android phones because qualcomm was throwing their patents about what they finally got fined for in 2017 this year. Apple had acquired a chip designer in 2008.

    So hardware makers making phones Android after 2011 had Google to negotiate good patent deals. Those attempting to still make Windows Phones were high and dry from the start of 2012. So by 2014 only vendor making Windows Phones was Qualcomm so now Qualcomm got to demand some really horrible terms include exclusivity of supply.

    Steve Ballmer signed off on the deal with Qualcomm he was stepping down as ceo any how the next guy would have to deal with the mistake.

    So the failure of Windows Phone has very little to-do with Nadella because once Nadella was in charge the contracts in place basically blocked all the correct actions Nadella would have need to perform to save it.

    Of course Nadella attempts to keep Windows Phone going for 2-3 years then Qualcomm gets the idea of using Microsoft as a shield to attack Intel over x86 patents as Qualcomm had done many times to smaller companies over different patents normally at the cost of the smaller company. At this point Microsoft Windows phone is checkmated. Cannot go to a different supply because that will be a breach of the Qualcomm contract. Only way out for Microsoft is end the product.

    kurkosdr google was late buying a hardware company to protect their market. Microsoft completely missed the boat and never bought a hardware company and the windows phone makers disappear because of it. Problem here is when Microsoft should have acquired a hardware company was in while Steve Ballmer was CEO.

  30. kurkosdr says:

    that Microsoft is becoming = that Windows is becoming

  31. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus thing remember this is a public forum not a private chat. So you really have no place to attempting to define who responds to what you post.

  32. kurkosdr says:

    Speaking of Windows, I am quite perplexed by Nadella’s inadequate decision to save some money (nothing that considerable, comparing MS’s enormous cache) and bury the only stance Windows had on phone devices. I am afraid Nadella is thinking of what makes money and not that much about strategy. The client products are currently going an unpleasant trend down.

    Now that all is said and done, I can finally say it: Microsoft never emitted an “in it to win it” vibe when it comes to phones. Windows Phone 7 devices arrived a year late and a CPU core short (they didn’t support dual-core CPUs, which meant no 1080p video recording). Lack of MicroSD slots was another issue (back when most phones had 8GB of storage and it was important).

    But even if you wanted to compromise and not have these features, you still had the problem of months-old phones not receiving updates. If you were a loyal Microsoft customer, by the end of 2012 you had one HTC HD2 that got insta-obsoleted in favour of WP7, and one WP7 phone that never received WP8, even if bought months before. Meanwhile, even “bad” Android flagships like the LG Optimus 2X and the LG Optimus 3D received 2 major version upgrades.

    By the time Windows Phone became a competitive platform and the upgrade problems had been fixed, it was too late.

    I will venture out to say that Microsoft is losing the Metro (“Modern”) game too, which is crucial to their hybrid tablet plans. The store is basically a wasteland with 3 good apps and some Gameloft games. I will also venture out to say that Microsoft is becoming a legacy compatibility provider for win32 and win64. With only DirectX being updated. Let’s hope they won’t kill PC gaming in favour of Xbox, because this is what’s keeping Windows from being a legacy compatibility platform.

  33. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus see there is a direct response you said your would not give. Thank you for playing.

  34. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus sorry but these are words. ”

    And they are not for you, moron.

  35. oiaohm says:

    Whatever…

    I still have no words for you. If you wish to babble at me, knock your socks off.
    wizard emiritus sorry but these are words. So if you are going to stick to what you have typed you only option is total ignore. Otherwise you are giving me words and are being a moron.

  36. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus if you respond with a error I will post no matter what. No point complain about it s not going to stop me doing responses.”

    Whatever…

    I still have no words for you. If you wish to babble at me, knock your socks off.

  37. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus if you respond with a error I will post no matter what. No point complain about it s not going to stop me doing responses.

    Speaking of Windows, I am quite perplexed by Nadella’s inadequate decision to save some money (nothing that considerable, comparing MS’s enormous cache) and bury the only stance Windows had on phone devices. I am afraid Nadella is thinking of what makes money and not that much about strategy. The client products are currently going an unpleasant trend down.
    Deaf Spy when you are down to 1 hardware vendor and that hardware vendor being Qualcomm you are in trouble.
    https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/11/16461396/qualcomm-taiwan-fine-abusing-monopoly-position-modems

    Qualcomm does not play fair.
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/
    Of course Qualcomm is not going to have the x86 emulation liability hit them. Instead add it as a feature to windows and have Microsoft on the receiving end sound really good for Qualcomm.

    Fairly much once Microsoft done exclusive deal on phones with to Qualcomm is was only a matter of time before Qualcomm attempt to set Microsoft up as the fall guy for what Qualcomm wanted to-do. Its how Qualcomm has battled in the patent wars for a long time. Get into partnership with someone have the partner use the patent risky stuff and if the person with the patent sues Qualcomm walks away cost free but partner gets hit with the costs and legal expense.

    To stay in the phone game Microsoft need to buy a chip designer and make their own chips like Apple and Google has. Microsoft attempt to take the cheaper path doing a deal with Qualcomm. For Microsoft to protect self from Qualcomm for now they have to shut down their phone line. If Microsoft want to make phones in the future they should be looking around for a chip designer they can acquire with the require cross patent agreements required.

    Nadella’s inadequate decision
    Wrong person Nadella did not put Microsoft into bed with Qualcomm. Steve Ballmer careless decision in 2014 with the joint agreement between Microsoft and Qualcomm put Nadella in the current check mate position with Qualcomm historically repeating business practice.

    Getting into a legal case with Intel could be very disruptive to Microsoft operations particularly when Microsoft requires Intel patents for their compliers. Qualcomm had nothing to lose by implementing x86 on arm yet Microsoft if they allow Qualcomm to go forwards could almost lose everything if Intel lets fully lose.

  38. Deaf Spy says:

    If Deaf Spy responds to me, I shall respond to him. I will also respond to Robert Pogson, should he address me.

    Ah, he is one lost little blabber, our Fifi. It is very pleasant to read how he would ignore technical questions when addressed as Fifi, but is ready to jump in with his gibberish when he spots this moniker.

    Speaking of Windows, I am quite perplexed by Nadella’s inadequate decision to save some money (nothing that considerable, comparing MS’s enormous cache) and bury the only stance Windows had on phone devices. I am afraid Nadella is thinking of what makes money and not that much about strategy. The client products are currently going an unpleasant trend down.

    In another situation I wouldn’t care. But to have to live up with web-based apps (this is the only thing the industry now has to offer as alternative) is really giving me creeps.

  39. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus one problem …”

    You don’t get it sir…

    If Deaf Spy responds to me, I shall respond to him. I will also respond to Robert Pogson, should he address me.

    I still have no words for you.

  40. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus one problem read back it was me who brought up the 2038 problem in this conversation in the first place. So like it or not you butted in without understand why it was raise in the first place claiming it was not important. Saying that it was not important. Its Microsoft fixing up a error they made with the 2038 problem now that is causing end user particular issues now with features disappearing.

    wizard emiritus by the way your statement was true these faults will get fixed like by 2038 Windows is unlikely to have a 2038 problem. That is because end users would have suffered the pain of fixing the 2038 from fairly much now on until it fully fixed.

    Fixing faults is not always painless. The design of Microsoft system for masking over fixed API/ABI defects so application who depend on the old broken API/ABI work has a limit what has now been hit. So Linux world and Microsoft has been breaking API/ABI about at the same pace. Windows 8.1 had all the entries in the ACT database going back to NT 4.0 this includes for applications written in 1990s. Windows 10 does not because there is ABI breakage in Windows 10 compared to prior versions of windows and Windows 8.1 was at limit for how much could be masked over. With ACT before Windows 10 you only really need to worry about it for only internally developed applications and for malware modification. After Windows 10 you have to worry about it for third party applications as well that Microsoft has deleted out list for space that are now broken because entry is missing.

    Deleting old legacy features that few still use that cause users to install a lot of parts that need to be added to the ACT database as individual entries is one of the methods Microsoft is using to free up space. Of course this process is going to upset some users.

    Now stow, snappy, flatpak and other designs in the Linux world for doing the same thing as the ACT system under Windows don’t have the designed in limit.

    Of course wizard emiritus you said nothing of that just that the fault raised was not needing to be worried about because it would get fixed. Totally missing that the prior systems to fix faults like it without end user disturbance are at limit and this is now causing users to suffer. Reason why Linux does not have a ACT like system debian mailing list 1997 works out that the database limit would be hit at some point so rejects the design. Working out a design without defects in operation, security, user friendless and application developer friendless has not been a simple process. You could say the Linux World set the bar horribly high that it taken over 20 years to kind of get there.

    What I find interesting at the time the Linux world starts getting a working system that ticks all boxes the defects in the Microsoft system are starting to land.

  41. wizard emiritus says:

    “wizard emiritus it turns out…”

    As it turns out I was addressing Deaf Spy, not you sir.

  42. oiaohm says:

    https://www.blackhat.com/docs/eu-15/materials/eu-15-Pierce-Defending-Against-Malicious-Application-Compatibility-Shims-wp.pdf
    Deaf Spy LOL.
    Fifi, you bizarre obsession and confusion with ACT is quite disturbing.

    Really go take your drugs Deaf Spy anyone doing windows system administration with proper system auditing really should understand exactly what the ACT term means because it one of the areas you have to check for malicious modification.

    So anyone running windows administrating properly should know about the changes in ACT. Nothing I wrote should be surprising to them at all.

    Basically Deaf Spy the clueless moron strikes again. Maybe this is the problem thinks my-stuff is unreadable because I am using terms above his pay grade.

  43. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, you bizarre obsession and confusion with ACT is quite disturbing. You are clearly having recurring hallucinations. I strongly advise you visit a doctor. No, not your usual one, he is a dermatologist. You need a psychiatrist.

  44. oiaohm says:

    https://www.gnu.org/software/stow/
    Its also interesting when people say Linux world has not been attempting backwards/forwards compatibility systems. Stow starts before 1993.

    “we can’t upgrade the OS because the upgrade will break compatibility and can’t have access to the latest apps because they need the latest OS”
    So this problem kurkosdr keeps on saying is a problem there have been solutions in the Linux world for a very long time. If they run into that problem badly they don’t use any of the solutions.

    Running latest applications on prior versions of Linux has been a pain in tail same with running obsolete versions on newer versions has been a pain in tail. But never impossible. zeroinstall, stow…. long list of different solutions. Flatpak and snappy are the latest generation. There is a difference Flatpak and snappy we are seeing up stream Linux application developers provide more and more applications in these formats. Also none of the linux solutions including current Flatpak or snappy depend on a database at runtime that can get over full like the Microsoft solution does.

  45. oiaohm says:

    wizard emiritus it turns out to be relevant to why particular parts of windows will disappear. Windows XP 64 bit had some design issues one of them was allowing 32 bit time in 64 bit binaries if developers asked for it. There are particular libraries listed in the ACT for overrides to use shim for this very problem in Windows 7 and later. Hopefully to stop developers doing it.

    According to insiders, they removed Windows Media Player from Windows 10 in latest upgrade.
    Later versions of 64 bit for windows forbid it and way of having to get rid of requiring the override shim and list of parts in the ACT (Application Compatibility Toolkit)remove the feature.

    Kurkosdr basically what happened here is part ports from win32 to win64 incorrectly are pulling the magical disappearing act. Also Microsoft has been trimming the ACT system database as well because they have to. Guess what ACT has got to max size it can without causing performance issues being searched so no choice but to start removing entries and hopefully software no one still users.

    In fact, All the niggling problems and esoteric bugs with windows have in most cases not done much to move someone who has a piece of windows based software that they wish to continue using.
    wizard emiritus true but we have not been at this level of issue. Where to change entries in the ACT system you have to delete other entries or cause performance problems. In the past you could just add more entries. Windows 7 and 8 were not at max. Windows 10 is.

    Some of the extra levels of annoyance windows 10 comes from running out of space in the ACT so when a person goes to run a program that run under windows 7 appearing perfectly now when attempted under Windows 10 fails because the entry in the ACT to auto added shim is missing.

    The ACT has been a great masking system for API/ABI changes from Windows NT 4.0 to Windows 8.1. Not so great at Windows 10.

    Deaf Spy no explaining how Microsoft has done there compatibility system and it issues is horrible. What I wrote just there in Microsoft documentation is 40 pages.

    The reality is not succinctly. I am most likely over compacting.

  46. wizard emiritus says:

    “Apps using the “win32” API which are 64bit don’t have the 2038 problem.”

    Mr. K. Whether or not windows has the problem is irrelevant. Since windows is still useful to a large number of people the problems will get fixed or has been long fixed by the ISV’s if they even still exist.

    In fact, All the niggling problems and esoteric bugs with windows have in most cases not done much to move someone who has a piece of windows based software that they wish to continue using.

    The above is of course irrelevant to the topic at hand. The city of Rome has asked to start the process of moving to the use of open source . The IT department has “bought in” to that process. There is still a long way to go and lots of analysis of processes and procedures before anything really happens, including their “discovery of what “going open source ” means for Rome.

  47. Deaf Spy says:

    In the meanwhile, Russia is desperately trying all kind of backdoors to avoid the embargo and purchase MS licenses:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-microsoft/exclusive-despite-sanctions-russian-organizations-acquire-microsoft-software-idUSKBN1CG0NS

    So long for how Russia will promote Linux 🙂

  48. Deaf Spy says:

    make sure you express yourself succinctly

    That is easy. Here is how Fifi’s posts can be:

    “Blah-blah-blah, [xxxx] is idiot because blah-blah-blah”.

    His writings on any IT topic are so desperately incoherent that it hurts just to read them.

  49. oiaohm says:

    Kurkosdr
    Maybe I should have said win32/win64.
    The hybrids suffer from 2038 problem.. Pure win64 can be used 32 bit time function that can lock up solid as well.

    Apps using the “win32” API which are 64bit don’t have the 2038 problem.
    So this is wrong. Because forward ported API from win32 to win64 was is not without it issues.

    Linux was in fact smart here. Where all Linux 64 bit uses 64 bit time.
    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/1f4c8f33.aspx
    Read about USE_32BIT_TIME_T welcome to hell Kurkosdr.

    Seams like a good idea allow coders to port there existing code to 64 and ignore the need to update their code for 64 bit time. So yes there are windows 64 bit applications that are not 2038 compatible because programmers never were forced to update their code.

    Kurkosdr my essays as you call them have a better average of correct content than your posts.

    Kurkosdr my last long post was fairly much that everything your prior posts were kind of wrong and you are posting failed.

  50. Kurkosdr says:

    Apps using the “win32” API which are 64bit don’t have the 2038 problem.

    Maybe I should have said win32/win64.

    And btw, Mr Ohioham, if you want more people to read through your posts, make sure you express yourself succinctly instead of writing page long essays with a low word to content ratio.

    This is not an essay for some university professor, it’s a comment section.

  51. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy what “you are hallucinating heavily again.” Fifi does not exist so about time you find your own drugs.

    kurkosdr normal does read and understand stuff. Of course Deaf Spy with attention span of nothing just attempts to be insulting.

  52. Deaf Spy says:

    Medicine time, Fifi, you are hallucinating heavily again.

  53. oiaohm says:

    When they get their first taste of “we can’t upgrade the OS because the upgrade will break compatibility and can’t have access to the latest apps because they need the latest OS”, they will, oh they will.
    kurkosdr reality this is close. If you look at any of the groups that have been using Linux Desktop for a long time like the French police you find they are using solutions to this exact problem on Linux. Chroot is what the french police started with. They are now looking to flatpak.

    Basically, what keeps Windows kicking is win32 (despite being the most ancient part of Windows NT).
    Lets forget the older bits because some of it is gone from 64 bit windows. Windows on Windows the system for running win16 applications under Windows NT.

    Native API that is all the stuff out of ntdll.dll(to be exactly correct the native api is the syscalls) is older than Win32 in Windows NT. NTVDM(being dos support) Win16 comes to Windows NT before Win32 is created. The book written by the lead programmer of windows NT gives the early development order. Ntdll.dll appears as first wrapper over the syscalls. So two of the older parts than win32 have already disappeared from modern Windows.

    https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/25848/The-Year-Bug-Y-K-Problem-Many-of-your-appli
    There are reasons why more and more bits of Windows 32 bit are disappearing. Because win32 API has some nice big bugs spreed all over it.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/planning/act-technical-reference
    kurkosdr lets forgot ACT. So windows Win32 API has been changing the complete time. ACT first appears in Windows NT 4.0 to deal with compatibility issues between NT 3.5 and NT 4.0.

    ACT depends on a database the larger it gets the slower applications start because it has to be searched every time application starts. Linux world consider this work around to problem not an option.

    Linux world has tried version coding library symbols. Turns out that does not work either that is only backward not forwards as well.

    kurkosdr also note how many Windows applications are dropping support of Windows XP. So the way windows applications have support old is build with old libraries or bundle with newer libraries. This is exactly what flatpak and snappy does on Linux.

    So times are changing. Its taken the Linux world a long time to find something that can work for new applications on old systems. Debian backports demo some of the problems of building new applications for old system without bundling new libraries.

    kurkosdr so how the story goes is not how you are thinking.

    The Linux world has tried many things to attempt to give people want you want. Microsoft found system with Windows NT 4.0 that kind of works. But when you need a huge database fails badly. So this leads to manifests and SXS under windows and that has it own set of issues as well.

    The oldest working system of forwards and backward compatibility is the old Unix chroot. Its also the nastiest on end users.

    kurkosdr I know its a bit hard to accept but upgrade break business applications happens with Windows as well as being forced to upgrade windows to run applications. Its not a unique problem to Linux. The difference is Microsoft tried methods for forwards and backwards compatibility have been more successful at delivering results to end users compared to the different options the Linux world had tried. Its not that the Linux world was not trying options. Those attempts lead to flatpak and snappy.

    We are kind of at a turning point. The defects in Microsoft backwards and forwards compatibility design is starting to catch up with them. Then at the same time the Linux world is starting to get backwards and forwards compatibility systems that work that don’t have the Microsoft system defects. Its the old million monkeys thing. Try enough different things have to find the solution at some point.

  54. kurkosdr says:

    Basically, what keeps Windows kicking is win32 (despite being the most ancient part of Windows NT). Assume everything else is bound to be removed or randomly changed at any moment, much like the entire Desktop Linux.

    Behold! The future!

  55. kurkosdr says:

    In short time, they will go back to Microsoft Windows.

    When they get their first taste of “we can’t upgrade the OS because the upgrade will break compatibility and can’t have access to the latest apps because they need the latest OS”, they will, oh they will.

    In the last days of Limux, they had their own disto with old components. Incompatible with every new app of course.

    Although with Windows 10 being a linux distro in denial, we shouldn’t be quick to laugh.

    According to insiders, they removed Windows Media Player from Windows 10 in latest upgrade. There goes my minimalistic media player with nice interface (a rare combination).

  56. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy so you did not read it either and compare it to UK government move. Lets presume everything is done Munich style. Lets forget all the Linux migrations that have run perfectly.

  57. Deaf Spy says:

    Sigh. Well, the word has it that stupid people learn from their mistakes, but smart people learn from other people’s mistakes. Rome should have looked at Munich. Germans are always much more advanced and practical than Italians.

  58. oiaohm says:

    Grece I guess you never read the link and is making another totally uninformed comment. They are not forcing users to migrate to Libreoffice/Linux. This reads like the UK government where they are running libreoffice on linux servers for confidential documents. They are not in fact 100 percent leaving windows either. UK government also talked about with their libreoffice usage is reducing locking. In the UK case the meaning that if they could not use MS products for some reason they would be able to keep a decent percentage of operations going with their back-up option.

  59. Grece says:

    In short time, they will go back to Microsoft Windows.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *