Las Vegas Lessons

“The first lesson that emerges from Las Vegas concerns the awesome destructive power of modern armaments like the 10 weapons Paddock was reportedly found with. In the hands of even a mediocre shot, an automatic weapon (like the one Paddock apparently shot, based on audio recordings from the scene) can fire 600 or more rounds per minute. The destructive power of such weapons is limited only by their ammunition capacity. In this case, it appears Paddock fired long streams of automatic fire into the crowd, sending scores or hundreds of bullets into concertgoers’ bodies. Bullets from such weapons travel at speeds of 2,000 to 3,000 feet per second, easily covering a third of a mile. On the battlefield, these weapons are used to suppress, wound, or kill enemy troops. In the civilian world, they can quickly kill dozens or hundreds before any effective police response can occur.”
 
See Why the Las Vegas Shooting Was a Security Agency’s Nightmare
It’s sad when nut-cases become our teachers. The escalation in depravity of mass-murderers reached new heights literally in Las Vegas. Using full-auto firing from a high place on a crowd is depraved.

It teaches, once again, that there is very little that can be done to protect soft targets without deploying a suitable counter-force. In the case of a shooter in a high place at a distance, there is no quick fix except a good guy shooting back. Are concerts going to deploy snipers? They’d better, because this nut-case has also taught other nut-cases how to kill massively.
 
BTW, this nut-case got it right by shooting from a high place with a solid door but he got it wrong by shooting full-auto. With tens of thousands in the crowd he hit only hundreds while firing full-auto for about an hour. From 400 yards range, he should have been able to shoot thousands of gophers with all the ammunition he expended one shot at a time. People are a larger target and they were illuminated by the floodlights on stage.

It took ages to breach the door of the nut-cases’s hotel room. A good sniper could have finished the incident in a minute or so. Police and security need to learn from this event and quickly. There will be copy-cats and students of murder getting the lesson if the pros don’t. Governments can ban all the full-auto firearms they want. A lot of evil can be done with lesser equipment. Imagine that nut-case firing a mortar… A crazy person with money can get whatever weapon he wants and can do a lot of damage. That nut-case could have used one or two mortar tubes and dozens of shells to kill hundreds and wound thousands. The only defence is a swift offense.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in politics, Teaching, technology and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

49 Responses to Las Vegas Lessons

  1. oiaohm says:

    ram get a person who knows the basics about weapons. It all makes sense really. Of course its not going to look like combat.

    The cheapest junkiest rounds for a AK-15 that no military would ever use as a 400 yards effective range without using a bump-stock that does lose a little bit more range.

    Good ammo in AK-15 has a 600-800 yard effective range but you attempt to use that with a bump stock it going to beat the living heck out of your finger.

    Please note those yard figures is when the bullet has projectile kinetic energy under 85 joules (62.7 foot-pounds) so no longer classed lethal.

    From windows to targets area was just over 400 yard with most being hit out at 500 yards. The ammo in usage is cheap poor quality so the bullets are going past bullet+gun rated effective lethal range. Some force has been lost to the bump stock. The result is most bullets go in but not through. This minimizes blood loss. Also most of the bullets don’t do major internal damage as they simply don’t have the force once they are under 85 joules. Most fatalities are going to be instant that the bullet hit something absolutely critical. Correct medical care there not be very few complications.

    Please note that crap ammo for the AK-15 is commonly labeled sports because it good enough for target shotting at the range and close proximity hunting. Military don’t use these rounds.

    Why would you be using the cheaper ammo.
    1) Is recommend for bump stocks as the 600-800 yard ammo in a bump stock can get very hard on you poor finger.
    2) its cheap.

    Armies don’t use this ammo. They would have been using 600-800 yard ammo. The damage on the people at 400-500 yards would be massively worse with way higher straight up fatalities and deaths from complications . But 600-800 yard ammo is not bump stock compatible.

    So deaths would be a lot higher if bump stocks had not been used and the money for the bump stocks was split between proper ammo and better scopes and better flash suppression.

    Yes the usage of 400 yard ammo equals more wind drift than using 600-800 yard ammo due to slower travel speed. So accuracy is in the toilet.

    This brings a very interesting question was his objective to kill or just create fear. Kill you should have gone after the better ammo with better concealment. Please note using a hammer to break out window is also wrong. You can use a glass cutting drill bit to cut a hole this would have also does some suppression on the firing noise. Nothing of this crime screams I am wanting to kill massive numbers of people effectively. Yes not buying the bump stocks and spending the same amount over all the crime could have been done way more effectively.

    By your own admission Petey, you DO NOT exist.
    Grece since Petey does not exist Petey cannot make admission right. Of course Grece does not want to admit he has made up Petey and is totally mentally ill. Really Grece not getting basic logic should be a given by now he is a total idiot attempting to follow this point and every time just proves he is a bigger and bigger idiot.

  2. Grece says:

    So Grece is still making statements to people who don’t exist.

    By your own admission Petey, you DO NOT exist.

  3. oiaohm says:

    So Grece is still making statements to people who don’t exist.

    Now I was referring to Petey in the singular second-person, I think you should apologize for for one, misreading what I wrote and two, calling me a twit. Instead of gloating over yourself.
    No you were not you idiot Grece because Fifi/Petey don’t exist so Robert read what you wrote prefect. This is the problem with being name calling idiot you should accept that you will be miss read because you are being a idiot. You cannot claim singular second-person when that person does not exist. You are also not consistent. Most common reason for changing what you call a person is that you are mentally unstable yourself Grece.

    Grece I have held a firearm license at different times. You don’t just need them for firearms. You need them for security equipment and crossbows as well. So the country gives me the right to have a firearm. To service firearms you have to have a firearms license allowing you to own them so I have in fact held quite a high firearm license where I could legally own anything .

    Grece I mentioned marfans syndrome. My body is too elastic to hold fire AK-15 without harming me. So there are quite a few people due to medical who cannot use bullet based Mil grade weapons some are generic like me or have played too much rough Australian football and damage shoulders to the point they have the same problem . Please note the Dislocation is not using full auto that is just firing AK-15 in semi-auto single shot. Interesting enough there is a mil weapon made particular to suit people who cannot fire AK-15 its the Recoilless Rifle.

    I love how I see Preppers in usa shows prep against AK-15 and other bullet based rounds and not prepping against someone who is using Recoilless Rifle with 40mm shells.

    Movie usage as an armorer can own Australian made AK-15 lots of AK-15. But AK-15 is a class D weapon the weapon is registered to a property so even if you hold a class D license you are limited on where it can be. For primary production in Australia is 1 class D weapon per propriety and max 2 under the one owner also must leave properly when no longer has a valid usage. So AK-15 is normally not a gun you own but gun you loan in Australia from an movie armorer so when the 1-5 years license is up you are not out of pocket. Yes primary production has to review their usage of a class D in Australia every 1 to 5 years and if they cannot justify return weapon if loaned, destroy if owned.

    Grece the weapons that suit me are Class M and Class R. Class M for crossbows requires a more complete background check than using a Class D. Class R other than being in the army the only place you get to use them is with movie armorers and weapon manufacturers.

    Please note chain feed, bump stock, full auto trigger mods for a AK-15 in Australia are all Class R items. Also before full auto ban in Australia the firearm weapon that suits me was also still Class R being restricted and still only way to get mits on them was weapon manufacturers or movie armorers and that was never to take home or join the navy and still never be allowed to take weapons home. So when I wanted to try the weapons I can use I had to work for it. Yes the firearm that suits me is more target elimination than target shooting.

  4. Grece says:

    Displaying alleged ignorance, followed with calling me a ‘twit” Robert?

    Really??

    Perhaps you should open your eyes old man.

    Lets back-up and review what I said Robert. I said, Fifi just shut-up. Australia don’t allow you to own any firearms, so what would you know.

    Now I was referring to Petey in the singular second-person, I think you should apologize for for one, misreading what I wrote and two, calling me a twit. Instead of gloating over yourself.

  5. Grece says:

    Interesting the reason why I got the job is I could be trusted not to take the weapon home because I could not fire them outside a stand without dislocating shoulder

    Dislocating shoulder Fifi?

  6. Grece wrote, “Australia don’t allow you to own any firearms, so what would you know.”, displaying his own ignorance.

    Australia clamped down on semi-autos and hand-guns but bolt-actions and shotguns abound in Australia. They have predators, pests and game-animals just as we do in Canada but some of theirs are sneakier.

    See Kangaroo hunting in Queensland, Australia

    “I am a total fudd and I think our gun laws are pretty good. To get a firearms license you need to 1) complete a safety course with a club and 2) possess a “genuine reason” to own firearms. This is as simple as getting a range or club membership, a letter from a landowner giving you permission to shoot, or in states with public land hunting, a state hunting permit. The vast majority of shooters hold an A/B license which allows you to own rimfire/centrefire/muzzleloaders of all actions except semi- or full-auto, as well as break-action shotguns.”

    Notice the rifle, prominently displayed. Someone owns it, twit.

  7. oiaohm wrote, “1-3 modification of function kits + scopes+ stands+ semi-auto ar-15 and you would have everything the nut case had”.

    Scary for me is thinking that he could have fired semi-auto aimed head-shots and killed several times as many. He also might have been able to kill 50 before a stampede happened. In my younger days, I could fire 50 rounds of 222 Remington on the Saskatchewan prairie and not miss a gopher at ranges from 100 to 350 yards. It takes just a couple of seconds to aim and fire at larger targets, like people. It’s a good think the guy was nuts or he could have done much more damage (aimed shots, big bomb, many small bombs, … .

  8. oiaohm says:

    Grece Fifi just shut-up. Australia don’t allow you to own any firearms, so what would you know.
    Really taking to non existent again when are you going to find you medication Grece.

    Funny I am old enough to have lived before gun laws. And I have held firearms license before I required it for my cross bows. I have worked as a Armorer assistant taken care of WT15. Yes the Australian made AR-15. So the weapon used happens to be a weapon style I know insanely well. You don’t need to ever have owned a particular weapon to know it well just work with an Armourer as an assistant for a while you will get to know them. I was in a town where a movie was being shot so this means AR-15(Australian copies WT15) and M60 and a few other very interesting weapons.

    Reason I know the AR-15 belt feeds is that WT15 were mocked up at times for M60 as they are a cheaper weapon to be damaged by movie blanks. Yes the belt feed that works on a AR-15 designed weapon also means the top view of the weapon does not look that much like a M60 any more so you end up using some trouble making belt feeds.. You know a look of a weapon very well when you have to mock another one to look almost exactly like it.

    Of course the stock made Australia AR/WT-15 is only semi-auto. So knowing all the tricks to get that to full auto is also required.

    Interesting the reason why I got the job is I could be trusted not to take the weapon home because I could not fire them outside a stand without dislocating shoulder and that I would use the stand to tune the sights instead of just holding the weapon and doing it.

    Grece basically you are presuming again so being a total idiot. I love how USA idiots think you have to own weapons yourself to know how they look and work and assemble and dissemble them. I would recommend anyone wanting a weapon go work at a gun shop or with a Armourer before buying any very good experience. Maybe you might have had a point here if you had Grece.

  9. oiaohm says:

    100-150 rounds Robert Pogson is also the short belts. Yes pictures show large box magazines. Without seeing the weapons or room completely cannot rule out belts as well so have to take it on faith if the police don’t say they were there.

    Robert Pogson basically the pictures show AR class weapons with bump stocks not enough to in picture rule out if any are belt feed and large number of box magazines. Medical says AR-15 size and pictures of the hurt match the smaller AR-15 round. So police statements match photos.

    Ares MCR060 belt feeds are dependable for the AR-15 the other ones really know how to jam. So if he was using belt feeds it would explain the large number of weapons. When I say jam I mean jam that bad they bend parts of the lower receiver effectively making the weapon non functional.

    Robert Pogson none of the pictures show any sign of any of the other possible modification kits. Basically I just look at the pictures and consider what could and could not be there.

    I did rule out the possibility of a full auto trigger being fitted because a weapon with a full auto trigger it would be kind of pointless having bump stock. I could be wrong on that bet. So 1-3 modification of function kits + scopes+ stands+ semi-auto ar-15 and you would have everything the nut case had. Scary enough all that able to be acquired in particular states in the USA as walk in purchase no background check required.

  10. Grece says:

    Fifi just shut-up. Australia don’t allow you to own any firearms, so what would you know.

  11. oiaohm wrote, “No pauses in fire is valid for AR-15 with belt feed and bump stock/auto trigger.”

    In the videos that I’ve seen there were pauses after 10-15s. Either he changed rifles there or his magazines ran out in that time. At 10 rounds/s that 100-150 rounds. That’s how big some of his magazines were. He also seemed to have 30-60 round magazines aplenty. He did not fire continuously for ~10 minutes but perhaps 5minutes of firing and nearly 5 minutes doing something else, checking his monitors, swapping rifles or magazines or firing positions. Who cares? He was a nut-case willfully murdering and terrorizing people. He certainly wasn’t firing from the 4th floor. He probably would not have had a good sight line that low down. There were high bleachers on both sides of the area.

    People are just silly to accept without question wild conjectures about what happened. Look at real information not the recollections of people in panic.

  12. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_machine_gun#/media/File:M60_machine_gun.jpg
    ram look at a picture of the M60. Look at the pictures of the guns and its clear as day there is no M60 because you can see the box clip and the but is completely different.
    Ram the stock of M60 and its side load only makes it completely different to a AR-10 or AR15.

    500 to 600 rounds per minute fire rate out a M60. Bump stock on a AR-10 or AR-15 also does 600 rounds per minute.
    M60 takes 7.62×51mm NATO
    AR-10 takes 7.62×51mm NATO
    AR-15 takes 5.56×45mm NATO
    If a 7.62×51 was used and all the weapons appear to be AR it has to be a AR-10. But as Robert said the reported in the medical reports are all the smaller round.

    Yes a AR-10 with a bump-stock sounds exactly the same as a M60 being used in bursts of fire.
    http://gunlab.net/ar-10-belt-fed/
    Ram it is possible to put a belt fed into a ar-10 and ar-15. Yes ar-15 and ar-10 with belt feed kits with bump-stock will spew out ammo like a M60 is firing with more spreed than M60.
    https://dealernfa.com/fightlite-mcr060/
    None of the guns in the pictures appear to have a Ares MCR060 belt feeds. But there are other makes and models of belt feeds for the Ar-15 including a few that spit the chain down the box clip way so you would need to see both sides of the Ar-15 to know if it was chain feed or not. Ar-10 only has one model of belt feed that is insanely hard to get and is basically a collectible and is clearly identifiable if installed from the side or back.

    Yes AR-10 with belt feed and bump-stock there is no real way to hear any difference to a M60. AR-15 belt feed and bump-stock not quite the same but close enough most people could not pick it without knowing exactly the range. AR-15 if you are slightly closer is going to sound almost absolutely identical to either the AR-10 or M60.

    Get the problem yet Ram. Ar-15 ramps up quite a long way if you have the money to buy all the add-ons. Really why does general public need bump stocks or belt feeds.

    The idea that no pauses in fire have to equal M60 is really badly bogus. No pauses in fire is valid for AR-15 with belt feed and bump stock/auto trigger. So two after market parts. So you cannot buy a full automatic weapon without a license but you can go in an by an AR-15 and the two modification kits and have something down right close without a license in some state in the USA totally insane.

    I still have the issue why in heck can general public buy firearm modification kits without a firearm license of some form and background checks? This is insane.

    I don’t believe there is any genuine usage for any of the possible modification kits used in the Las Vegas event in a country at peace so I see no reason why the kits should be on sale to the public. So it completely insane you can buy them without any checks.

  13. Grece says:

    CNN and others have been accused of spreading fake news but that’s not the case.

    Seriously Robert, you just stated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was ‘Fake News” but now you defend anything CNN informs you to believe.

    http://mrpogson.com/2017/10/08/war-rumours-of-war-and-stupidity/#comment-380507

    *Rolls-eyes*

    HYPOCRITE.

  14. ram wrote, “Two M-60 heavy machine guns from the 4th floor.”

    Well, then, [SARCASM]there were no pauses in shooting and twice as many people were killed with larger wounds[/SARCASM]…

    I saw images of people’s .224″ wounds. Don’t believe crap from the web. Anyone can write/say anything. You need reliable sources. Your guy isn’t that. Why all the 223-firing rifles in pictures from the scene? Why would anyone want to persuade folks a different calibre was used?

    See https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/components/video/201710/f_tov_lasvegas_shooter_hotel_room_171003.nbcnews-ux-1080-600.jpg

    See https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooting-room/1efe262ee3bbd8034eeb19826b7a23651ee63cc2/room-annotation-1050.png

  15. Mats Hagglund wrote, “a kind of new normal”.

    Our knowledge of such deviance might be the new normal but the deviance certainly isn’t. I, for one, have no interest in slaughtering innocents despite being a cranky old man.

    CNN and others have been accused of spreading fake news but that’s not the case. They do however circle the drain on really bad stories which are best forgotten or ignored. Deviants want this kind of attention even after death, so the modern media, cable and Internet, are factories for this stuff. Look at the twits who frequent this blog. Weird characters love the Internet. They can communicate in a one-way fashion with few if any consequences, living out their worst fantasies. Then they do it in reality and we are shocked.

    On the weaponry side of things, I’ve witnessed folks, mostly men, have a fascination with spartan semiautomatic rifles with little or no utility except mass slaughter. They are not very accurate. They are often .223/5.56 calibre, almost useless for hunting. Their only merit is large magazine capacity and some capability to deal with a hot barrel. They are hard on brass so not usefully reloaded. They are just a huge waste of money and material yet they are very popular. It’s rather disturbing to meet such people at the rifle range or out in some remote gravel pit, firing as rapidly as possible with no concern for accuracy, just rate of fire. One wonders what goes on in their heads. I’m much more comfortable with folks who just want to shoot well, accurately over normal ranges, with a hunting or target-shooting rifle in a bolt action.

    So, there are a number of overlapping issues converging on horror. Fortunately, the weirdos are few and far between. We as societies can survive them, even if individuals and families are disrupted. Imagine the horror if this wealthy nut-case had bought a semi-trailer/tractor rig (See Google Maps image showing a rig in the area), filled it with high explosives and detonated it on the thoroughfare adjacent to the venue. Everyone has to plan for the worst and just avoid holding or attending such events without concern for safety. It’s been decades since I was ever in such congested space. I don’t intend to change that.

  16. Mats Hagglund says:

    Perhaps Stephen Paddock is, in fact, a kind of new normal in late-capitalist America, where once anonymous men harboring long simmering fantasies of white-male impotence burst out of their quiet cul-de-sacs to settle their grievances with bump-stocked military-style assault weapons.

  17. Grece wrote, “-Well I am glad Islam had nothing to do with this attack.”

    I would not rely on the words of murdering bastards. There is zero indication this guy was Muslim. Gambling, drinking alcohol, abuse of women, and loads of money… No, this guy loved his work. He had means to do much more damage to the crusaders but chose not to do so. He could have chosen a belt-fed gun, or a huge explosive or…

  18. oiaohm says:

    Really Grece what you did was duplicate ISIS paperwork to attempt recruit new members. Grece I hope you like working for ISIS maybe you will think next time before posting those links around anywhere. Kinda explains why you love insulting so much.

  19. oiaohm says:

    Really media should not go speculating over who is involved with these crimes. All it does is encourage groups like ISIS to take responsibility for stuff they did not do and waste police time following garbage leads.

  20. oiaohm says:

    I see mega chicken Grece is now throwing a childish temper-tantrum because he cannot do a simple think like ask a question the right way.

    Its also universal for terrorist groups to claim responsibility for stuff they did not do.

    I remember with Port Arthur massacre that 5 different groups claimed responsibility even that it was absolutely proven that he was just mentally ill. So lets the police do their job and find out if Isis is linked or not.

  21. Grece says:

    Outback Retard, hopefully never, EVER procreates, as he will spoil the gene pool. But, Australia is a penal colony and his offspring, if any, would stay there.

  22. Grece says:

    Marfan Boy doesn’t drive, have a girlfriend/wife, nor does he contribute anything to society.

  23. Grece says:

    Fifi, lives in his parents basement.

  24. oiaohm says:

    Gallipoli was the early example of being out gunned and the party with the dominate weapons losing. Including facing off against Machine guns without them. The first day at Gallipoli none of the Australians with machine guns survived. That left them with sniper rifles and lead to the periscope weapons.

    The weakness of using Machine guns has been known for a very long time. Wasteful on ammo, not that high in accuracy. Then you get people modify weapons to be inside the law like bump stocks where they have in fact compromised on weapon design effecting accuracy.

  25. oiaohm says:

    Really An Out Of Phase Transistor do you know what metal storm area denial weapons system is? Really every time you claim you cannot read something it contains information you are clueless about.

    Seams to be everyone who cannot use a person proper handle is clueless moron themselves.

  26. Someone wrote, “I came here expecting to read anti-gun leftism”.

    I’ve been a shooter and hunter for over 60 years. I don’t know how much longer I will continue that but firearms aren’t the problem. I do question the sanity of having widespread use of semi-autos and huge magazines. They are trouble waiting to happen in the wrong hands. We are thankful this murdering bastard was not skillful in their use but the next maniac may have learned from his mistakes.

    I also reflect that thousands learned in a few minutes what it was like to be wading ashore on the beaches of Normandy on D-day with machine-guns wailing away at them. Many felt they were breathing their last but with just a little dispersal and use of cover many survived. Will the next madman do a bit of maths before attacking to change that result? I hope I don’t live long enough to see that happen. It will be terrible.

  27. IGnatius T Foobar says:

    Bravo, Mr. Pogson. I came here expecting to read anti-gun leftism but your position on this issue is remarkably sensible.

  28. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    “An Out Of Phase Transistor the protect schools with heavy weapons scary enough that had been done with metal storm area denial weapons system when I talked about it.”

    It’s impossible to actually parse this sentence as something with any meaning or content, so I stopped reading, sorry Ham.

    Regardless, you really should just go for the R-36, easier on everyone, you know, if the craziness reaches the ultimate heights immediately, rather than going there slowly through a morras of illegible nonsense.

  29. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    “Why Petey?”

    If you guys just let me interject for a moment (ha, ha, oh my… ahem), I have a pet theory on everyone’s favorite online tro– I mean “Internet-Enabled Rocket-and-everything-else-Scientist” (that’s you Hammie); I think he actually isn’t a crazy Australian maniac at all, it’s my belief that his ultra-low-quality-funny-English comes from, well, not actually knowing the language and (most probably) everestimating his competency in it. Anyone else would pause before posting for fear of coming across as completely illiterate, but not our Hammie.

    He seems to have the same problem with everything, let’s hope he doesn’t drive…

  30. oiaohm says:

    Why Petey? You stated it, now explain yourself.
    Grece how dumb are you there is no Petey here. So you are still asking another question of no one. You must be such a coward asking question of bogus names all the time.

  31. Grece says:

    Here is something horrible. A bump stock weapon has broader spray than a proper full auto.

    Why Petey? You stated it, now explain yourself.

  32. oiaohm says:

    Grece really do you have a proper post or do you want to keep on point out your are clueless. You cannot even do a simple question correctly. Really there are multi reviewed out there of bump stock weapons vs proper full auto listing all the weaknesses.

    Maybe Grece has learn from history and is too much of a chicken to ask me properly since over firearms I normally have the cites backing my points when asked. Really stop accusing fake people of stuff some you don’t have the face the fact you are a moron Grece.

  33. Grece says:

    HamDong, go back to playing Call of Dooty. You have no comprehension of what you are talking about.

  34. Grece says:

    HamDong, you whine about me using the HamDong name for you, but you still respond to it.

    LOL.

  35. oiaohm says:

    Grece who is hamdong. Wait that you Grece.

    Here is something horrible. A bump stock weapon has broader spray than a proper full auto.
    So I don’t have to this. Come on Grece answer you own question. Or maybe ask someone properly.

  36. Grece says:

    Here is something horrible. A bump stock weapon has broader spray than a proper full auto.

    Why HamDong?

  37. oiaohm says:

    An Out Of Phase Transistor the protect schools with heavy weapons scary enough that had been done with metal storm area denial weapons system when I talked about it. So the system I was talking about back then your thought was theoretical it was not. Its also has been used around hospitals. Yes its real war-zone level protection.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrackingPoint
    Snipper need either hours of training or something like Tracking Point. So a normal police officer could have got a Tracking Point riffle out of car and if able to get location take shot. Advantage weapons like this don’t require on going training to maintain skill. The reality here is a Tracking Point weapon could have been used outside the effective fire range of full automatic weapons and converted weapons.

    Governments can ban all the full-auto firearms they want. A lot of evil can be done with lesser equipment.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/03/bump-stock-devices-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-could-have/
    The at least one of the weapons used was not a full auto firearm. This is why semi-automatics are restricted in Australia because of items like bump stocks.

    Here is something horrible. A bump stock weapon has broader spray than a proper full auto.

    But hey, we need to highten security, no matter the cost, right?
    Really no but you don’t need to be stupid either. Why can you have people making bump stocks in the first place. Its not like full auto is a good use of ammo for soldiers. Most mil weapons these days are burst. You see a lot of conversion kits being made in the USA due to lack of regulation to turn semi automatic and burst weapons back to full auto.

    Yes full auto and semi automatic do need to be restricted. Companies making conversion kits need to be stopped as well. Please note the USA constitution says regulated militia. Regulated militia does not need to be modifying weapon trigger systems or stocks to add features.

    The polices weapon kit has not evolved with the time.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CornerShot
    The two weapons that need to be added to the police weapon kits are like the Tracking point and the CornerShot and possible a combination of the two. So that police can return fire and monitor attacker while keeping self out of line of fire.

    Most police weapon kits are design with the idea of close area breach. Not for facing off in a case of overpowered. Even having a CornerShot and being out of range to fire back allows you to monitor attacker to take advantage to move when they have to reload or change weapons. Heck even police smart phones had software on them so one could be stuck around conner and the other watching the video stream of what the attacker was up-to would have been helpful this overpowered event. Why to have the most time to move you need to be able to see when attacker is reload/moving so you can move safely.

    Part of the problem why it took so long to stop the shooter in the recent case is a lack of equipment problem on the police side so meaning the police could not move as fast as they could have if they had the extra equipment and training to use it. Yes police on the ground could have got to the hotel sooner even having the ability to use their smart phones as periscope. Periscope are used in warzones a lot when dealing with snippers or those with the high ground.

  38. Kurkosdr wrote, “Head scarves are optional as you well know.
     
    They are not optional for those who take Sharia as sacred”
    .

    Absolute nonsense. The dictum is to cover the hair of a woman in public. Head scarves are only one technology that can do that. Many European women wear “babushka” head coverings totally different from a burqa or more form-fitting head scarf. My mother did too. It has nothing to do with Islam or sharia, just practicality. If you have long hair it becomes a tangled mess in the sun and the wind and idiots want to ban coverings. Lunacy… The most modern women on the planet understand the technology, even FLOTUS. She wears a cap and a pony-tail to go out of doors much.

    Quoting the King James Bible First Timothy 2:9 :
    “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;”

    Get it? Covering up is a global phenomenon. Even I usually wear clothes even when there isn’t really a reason to do it but I certainly cover up when going out into the sun and wind to hunt, gather or garden. It’s just the right thing to do.

    Not convinced? See what various religious groups practice: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/75/37/b7753798e873b068bc6bf50205b65e8d.jpg

    Only 1 of those 17 “religious” head-coverings for women are muslim. Maybe’s it’s religion that’s being persecuted and not Islam.

  39. An Out Of Phase Transistor says:

    And so it came to pass, that one reader felt the burning desire to quote Joe Monco (circa 2014):

    “Why not just use a Tomahawk missile?”

    While the response was originally aimed at Hammie’s ideas about protecting elementary schools with machineguns and other automatic weapons (robotic too, so automatic-automatic, if I remember the ramblings correctly), I’d say this thread is going along the same lines.

    And so let me take you there, where you’ll all end up any way, just quicker, and more over-the-top (so that Hammie doesn’t have to try so hard):

    “Why not just use a Soviet R-36 heavy intercontinental ballistic missile (NATO codename: SS-18 Satan)?”

    With a single warhead comparable with approx. 25 Megatonnes of TNT, and the ability to reach any point of the globe, the shooter would have no place to hide and no means to protect himself from retribution (no, even hardened hotel-room doors wouldn’t help him).

    Not to mention the fact that the blastzone expansion is high supersonic near the explosion centre, if the concert security responded immediately, the attacker would have been vaporised before the second bullet left his weapon.

    The weapon too would have been vaporised… and the hotel… and the city of Las Vegas.

    But hey, we need to highten security, no matter the cost, right?

    Well, why not go all the way?

    (I do wonder if readers can decipher the point of this response; it’s hard to be more obvious, true, but with some people, you just never know…)

  40. Kurkosdr says:

    Head scarves are optional as you well know.

    They are not optional for those who take Sharia as sacred, aka the extremists and extremists pretending to be moderate. If you consider them optional, you are a moderate and a not likely to become a terrorist in the name of Sharia

    Why not make your country less attractive to extremists?

    just illuminating the silliness of K’s argument

    An argument that was never made by me.

  41. Kurkosdr wrote, “make western countries less attractive to the people who take Sharia as sacred?”

    Huh? Head scarves are optional as you well know. There’s nothing sacred about them. Are you going to ban hats too? Silly, insufferable twit.

    Kurkosdr also wrote, “You have no counterargument, that’s why you are putting words in my mouth”.

    See those ” marks? Those are quotation marks. When I put words in K’s mouth, I quote them. I did not quote my reply about scarves, just illuminating the silliness of K’s argument. Muslims will come to Canada whether or not head-scarves are banned. Head-scarves won’t be banned because that’s un-Canadian. We even have Sikhs wearing their religious head-gear. It’s not a problem any more than it is a problem catholics wearing a crucifix or some folks dressing in black or wearing loose clothing…

  42. Kurkosdr says:

    Kurkosdr wrote a bunch of crap and finished by claiming head scarves could save humanity…

    Save humanity? No. I never used the phrase “save humanity” or implied it. But make western countries less attractive to the people who take Sharia as sacred? Yes. Doing this and all the other things I mentioned.

    You have no counterargument, that’s why you are putting words in my mouth, you insufferable old man.

  43. Grece wrote, “what size mortar should this person have used”.

    Check the kill radius in TFA in Wikipedia. If he fired 30 rounds per minute for a while, how much area of the crowd would have been covered? Apparently the murdering bastard fired full auto for nearly 10 minutes. He fired thousands of rounds and killed 59. I guess he enjoyed shooting rather than killing. Good, but the next guy may be more serious. Imagine a small crew working that scene. It could have been much worse, as bad as it was.

  44. Grece says:

    Mortars Robert? What do you know about mortars??

    Absolutely nothing.

    Tell me, what size mortar should this person have used and how much cheese?

  45. Kurkosdr wrote a bunch of crap and finished by claiming head scarves could save humanity… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GASP! ROFL!

    I guess crazy people serve a purpose, to reduce shallow breathing…

  46. Kurkosdr says:

    Islam is a religion designed to produce desperate uneducated people with nothing to lose, there I said it. By emphasising the supposed importance of having many children in favour of having fewer but well educated and well cared-for children, Islam guarantees the presence of poor uneducated people with nothing to lose in every country it exists. Then there is the fact inbreeding is encouraged by Islam, hence making sure some of those desperate poor uneducated people will be half-crazy too. Then there is the fact Islam provides an ideological cover against murder, by considering the life of “infidels” worthless, and by considering all land on Earth as belonging to Muslims with everybody else supposedly being squatters who have “stolen” land from Muslims.

    You must know that the reason the Ottomans managed to reach the outskirts of Vienna was not so much because of their army, but the careful use of the bashi-bazouks, which were groups of desperate poor half-crazy people sent before any tactical groups to “prepare the terrain” before the actual invasion.

    The bashi-bazouks are here again. They want a western world that is paralysed from fear (and hence less productive and less creative) and a western world that spends huge amounts of money for internal security (that could have been spent on external security aka the military or towards the advancement of science).

    The western world could fight back by making western countries inhospitable to those people, for example by banning halal meat (which is incompatible with animal welfare standards anyway), banning the nicab and hijab, and mandating pork in school lunches two days a week, plus any other things which don’t annoy the Shiites (or the moderate Shiites at least) who don’t take Islam literally but do annoy the Sunnis and more so the bashi-bazouks among their ranks.

    Austria has already banned the burka. The path to the protection of the western way of life has been shown to us.

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