Banning Internal Combustion Engines

“While the United States may be slowing its drive to reduce emissions as a nation, California could press for more stringent standards that could end up being as strict those recently planned by some countries.
 
The nation’s most populous state may propose a plan to ban internal combustion engines, following France and the United Kingdom, Bloomberg reported Tuesday. California Air Resources board chair Mary Nichols told the publication Gov. Jerry Brown, “has expressed an interest in barring the sale of vehicles powered by internal-combustion engines,” in that state.”
 
See California might ban internal combustion engines to meet emissions targets
Just as governments have banned many industrial processes that spewed garbage into air or water or soil, they can and should ban internal combustion engines in vehicles where they aren’t needed, which is certainly in most cities and with some modification near major highways. Eventually, the whole transportation system could use BEVs (Battery Electric Vehicles). These use much less energy per kilometre and spew almost no waste into the environment.

Since California has set many standards now widely adopted in protection of the environment, I would not bet against them on setting this trend. This could certainly be a huge boost to acceptance of my favourite EV, the Solo, which is cheap and extremely efficient.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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24 Responses to Banning Internal Combustion Engines

  1. Someone wrote, “There certainly are much more symbolic things for freedom rather than desperately trying to find parking lots and sitting in traffic jams.”

    I’m old. I won’t be commuting to work. Mobility beyond what my legs can do in a few hours is definitely freedom for me. I like to walk in the woods instead of on asphalt. The nearest woods where I can walk are about 30 miles away. There are many places I would like to visit for lower cost to my fixed pension within 50 miles. You bet a car means freedom for me. An EV will also give me freedom from oil companies and gasoline stations and service stations. My present gas-guzzler is definitely not a symbol of freedom but enslavement as the bills pile up. My wife also gets first call on it so I have to schedule my freedom around hers. Conditional freedom is less freedom. With my own EV, I will have more freedom, not less. Where I live every home has one or more automobiles and now most are gas-guzzlers. Freeing space in my garage for an EV is a great benefit. I hope my wife sees the light and chooses to drive electrically soon too.

  2. Silly_hyperconsumerists says:

    The right to own cars and other objects is of course part of freedom, but does it mean that cars symbolize freedom? No.

    Our population density in Finland is also rather low. While one still is probably going to need a car if one lives in countryside, the in-city and inter-city public transport is decent. It is definitely not seen as some kind of substitute transportation meant for the poor.

    You are of course allowed to do anything with your freedom, including throwing it away, but the idea of car as a symbol of freedom just doesn’t cut it for me. There certainly are much more symbolic things for freedom rather than desperately trying to find parking lots and sitting in traffic jams.

  3. Grece says:

    So, Grece does not believe in supply and demand

    Good point! How can there be a “demand” for the Solo, when there is a non-existent “supply” Robert?

  4. Someone wrote, “private cars still are not a “symbol of freedom”.”

    I don’t know about you but I live in a big country with low population density. One could get by with renting a truck a few times a year and stock up on all kinds of goods that were needed and make more of what you need but division of labour is much more efficient and we can live longer happier lives by contributing what we can to a GDP and taking what we need. Socializing OTOH is possible with the Internet and telephones but you just can’t spread Mom’s home cooking around to all the descendants spread over thousands of miles without a lot of transportation and the last few miles almost certainly needs a car. How often one uses a personal car or hires one is a matter of choice in some cases but it just is not practical for hiring to be the norm where I live. For instance, supply and demand dictate extreme shortages of available transportation during times of national/religious/community celebrations. I’ve seen wait times of hours in the city for folks going to New Year’s parties. I don’t particularly relish those but many do and they would be giving up a lot of freedom to be stuck at home when friends and family are doing stuff. I’ve been there and done that. That’s not freedom.

    Further, there’s some security in having one’s own transportation, say when a child is injured and needs to be rushed to hospital. Where I live an ambulance can start out from the hospital and take twice as long to deliver the child than a parent or neighbour could. Convenience is another aspect of freedom. A personal vehicle can be inconvenient at times but a person always has the option of arranging other transportation. A personal vehicle is very convenient when it works. So, there are a lot of aspects of freedom. Having some dweeb on the ‘Net telling us what is good for us is not freedom.

  5. Silly_hyperconsumerists says:

    Well, where I live, I can easily visit wilderness and the city without need of a private car. I don’t need to walk, I can just take my bicycle and after a quarter-hour of riding, I am in the middle of countryside. Or by that matter, I could also take an intercity coach and leave it at some distant stop.

    The availability of transportation is most certainly essential for a modern society, but private cars still are not a “symbol of freedom”. Many people definitely have good reasons to have them, but fetishizing the car won’t cause anything good.

  6. Someone wrote, “Travelling prebuilt roads and sitting in traffic jams does not count as freedom for me. Consume, consume consume, bah.”

    I agree in part and disagree in part, just like some of the Supremes. In a perfect world people would live close to their work and suppliers and could walk, run or swim where they needed to go. However, our world was designed in the days of horses and buggies etc and we have a huge infrastructure built on other models. In my nearest big city, for instance, planning is to separate widely residential areas from industrial/commercial areas. The idea is to improve quality of life by keeping better visuals and quiet close to home. In rural areas, plots of land are larger and it’s just not possible to have all suppliers close to where people live. Also, I and many others take personal satisfaction in customizing our homes and lands. I have planted more trees in the last few years than all the other properties on my side of the block. I would not make such investments if I had to move every few years as my employment, education, purchasing needs evolved. When I was young I did move around a lot but now I want my environment to be set up my way and TLW and I have made huge investments in our property. It’s not just about material things. I love the smell of living soil. I love trees, flowers, birds and bees. Deer and rodents chewing on my stuff, not so much… but I plant extra so we can all share.

    Personal transportation is part of my freedom; a chance to go places and visit people is freedom. I could walk for hours and days to get to many of these places but I’m well past my prime and that would be difficult and very inconvenient. For example, I love to hunt deer and eat them. I can’t do that in the city. I can’t do that real close to others’ homes. I can with a backpack, a firearm and personal transportation. I could rent a vehicle for that purpose but the same vehicle is also useful for other errands like going to the post office, doctor, hospital, shopping and visiting family. We used to live in a Utopia where everyone grew their own food or lived in villages but we have been fruitful, multiplied and moved on. The old ways don’t scale very well in the modern world. If we nuke ourselves back into the Stone Age, that could change but not without a huge calamity.

    This is reality. Deal with it.

  7. Silly_hyperconsumerists says:

    “The issue here is that the private automobile is a symbol of freedom for us plebs, and many people from the Regressive Left, who believe in centralisation in a big way, don’t like it that way.”

    Private automobile? Symbol of freedom? Let me laugh.

    If anything, the private automobile could be the symbol of the insane delusion of freedom beared by hyperconsumerist corporate fanboy Americans. Travelling prebuilt roads and sitting in traffic jams does not count as freedom for me. Consume, consume consume, bah.

    What then could be the symbol of actual freedom? The private BOAT, maybe. But I suppose Windows fanboys are too dumb to actually navigate seas safely.

  8. oiaohm says:

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1111264_new-life-for-old-nissan-leaf-electric-car-battery-replacement-and-what-it-took
    Kurkosdr the biggest bug bear of electrics is the custom shaped battery areas when it comes time for replacement. A used leaf is normally used because battery used in early leafs have not held up over time. Of course part of having the battery replaced in most EV is returning the old battery for proper recycling.

    Kurkosdr really you have taken a very risky point of view that solo will not be delivered with the track history of one off production by the parent company. Delivered in a reasonable time frame that would be the historic issue.

  9. Kurkosdr wrote, “in order to mass produce a Solo, you need a stamper for every single part which is custom in the Solo”.

    1. Most of the parts in Solo are COTS and not custom at all. Factories that produce those COTS parts already have the capacity they need to supply EMV.
    2. The few custom parts are welded or glued and so do not need stamping. They might need jigs to hold things in position and eventually robots to put things together.
    3. Solo was designed to be assembled from parts anywhere in the world to minimize shipping costs and requirements for highly skilled workers. All that saves a lot of money.
    4. EMV could be building a lot more Solos with the line they have. They don’t because certification of each unit is slow and expensive. They are going for certification of their whole process which takes more time once but thereafter will be mostly a matter of affixing a label. NSM certification in Canada is well underway and could be completed any day now. USAian certification is in the works. That will allow EMV to ramp up. They are not limited by supply of parts as you well know.
  10. Kurkosdr wrote, “You are yet another greenie who cannot bear the significant cost of a EV (one that is actually available for sale, not the Solo) and is too proud to settle for a used Leaf.”

    That’s nonsense. Banks love me. They will loan me money several different ways to buy Solo even if I didn’t have the cash, which I do. I have two self-managed pension accounts. One of them I can only bring out a fraction yearly but the other can be cashed out any time I want. I could pay cash for Solo, but it would probably be better to take a loan over two or three years and pay as my annuity allows because withdrawals from the pension are taxable income. Interest rates are lower than my likely return on investments in my pension. I also live on a valuable property where a second mortgage might make sense. TLW works in real estate and can likely get a low-interest loan any time she wants. Banks have loved us for decades whether she or I were the bread-winners.

    I happen to think Leaf is overpriced and I don’t like the design. It’s heavier than I need and requires much too large a battery to get a similar range as Solo. A used Leaf can be had at quite a savings and so is a better buy IMHO but I’m reluctant to go that way not because I can’t afford it but because I don’t want a Leaf. Why should I buy something I don’t want just because it’s electric?

  11. Kurkosdr says:

    Read my previous post why you will never get a Solo.

    You are yet another greenie who cannot bear the significant cost of a EV (one that is actually available for sale, not the Solo) and is too proud to settle for a used Leaf.

  12. Grece wrote, “electric cars are not pushing the price up on lithium ion cells, nor would it be a good thing if they theoretically were”.

    So, Grece does not believe in supply and demand… How many D cells are sold compared to lithium cells sold in an EV? Granted EVs have ramped up a lot in demand but they have a lot of room to grow. Lithium pricing could well be affected except that mines are being built/expanded in anticipation of increased demand. So, things are working as they should and EVs are being noticed by markets both on the supply and demand side.

  13. Kurkosdr wrote, “Stay within the big cities. Stay within the limits that the people who plan public transportation networks and charging stations have defined for you.”

    I don’t do that. There is only an hourly bus-route within a mile of my home. I live outside the city but close to a major highway. Charging stations in this area are installed by individuals and businesses, not government largely and there is no grand plan/conspiracy. Charging stations appear where they are needed. I can travel hundreds of miles west of here by Solo EV but I can’t travel far north in Manitoba except Swan River. In Saskatchewan the area covered is a bit better but still most stations are too far apart for Solo. In Alberta, all the major highways are covered as far north as Edmonton. BEVs are happening and while the range of applicability is less than for ICEd vehicles it’s not much of a restriction on my current movements. In fact, getting the Solo EV will add to my mobility because there won’t be competition for use of a single SUV between me and TLW. I actually drive very little these days but plan to increase my driving electrically. By the time Solo arrives my big planting campaigns will be in their last year so I will have more time for driving.

  14. Kurkosdr says:

    Hey Robert! How many Solo’s have shipped this quarter?

    *crickets*

    *tumbleweeds getting carried by wind*

    Just as I have predicted. EMV made a bunch of hand-built vehicles using the few custom parts they had in the factory and then folded when the parts run out.

    See people? This is the result of Common Core. People never learn what it takes to build and assembly line, because it cuts into the (implied) narrative of factory owners being evil bourgeoisie who own the means of production, while in reality those factory owners had to risk considerable investment capital and invest a ton of their own time to build their assembly lines.

    For example, Pog doesn’t know that in order to mass produce a Solo, you need a stamper for every single part which is custom in the Solo and each stamper can cost anywhere from tens of thousands to millions of dollars. You can’t have people making parts by hand or custom ordering them because then the costs skyrocket and it would be impossible to sell at the promised retail price for a profit. All this means that no person will make the investment necessary to build a mass-production assembly line for the Solo just to build half a thousand examples and then close shop.

    Pog and all the doofuses who fund niche hardware products on KickStarter would know all this if they had learnt it at school.

  15. Grece wrote, “Speaking of which, when are you going to get an electric tiller Robert? Those ICE tillers you have are promoting waste to your environment!”

    I don’t think any battery-powered tiller could do the job I have. Perhaps in a year or two my gardening will shrink to a size and the soil will improve to a lightness that electric drives could work but not yet. I could see a tiller working on a 240V extension cord for a compact garden. In fact, I have a 120V “edger” that could do the job on a very small garden. I used my new gasoline rototiller to prepare the seedbeds for the lawn this year and it worked very well. I did two plots of lawn and one is maturing nicely and the other has just started but is looking good. Next year the lawn should be fully established so I won’t much need a tiller except for the garden close to the house. While an electric tiller doesn’t normally need much range, it would be nuisance if the battery died 200 feet from the house. So, the much vaunted range of ICEd tillers still matters even on my small property.

  16. oiaohm says:

    Petey, you dumbass, 5% is not most.
    5% is rechargeable and non rechargeable. 50% is rechargeable.

    Petey, you dumbass and economics 101 failure, electric cars are not pushing the price up on lithium ion cells, nor would it be a good thing if they theoretically were.
    Grece not having the facts. Per mwh of a cell the non rechargeable uses more lithium. The rechargeable uses less lithium for the same power storage. So as lithium price has gone up rechargeable have make their usage of lithium more effective so the price per cell has not increased because they are using less lithium to get the same mwh of storage. But the non rechargeable that the majority go into land fill or incinerators have got more expensive because a non rechargeable lithium ion battery form 10 years uses the exact same amount of lithium a new one does today..

    Grece interesting enough most of the electric car batteries are recycled. << Please learn to read. Why I said most with electric cars its not 5% recycled. Is 99.9% recycled. If everything using batteries had the same recycling level as all car batteries be it lead acid or lithium ion we would not have a battery recycling problem.

    I even included a different cite backing my point. So many times you are refusing to read and keeping up arguments that are bogus.

  17. Grece says:

    Hey Robert! How many Solo’s have shipped this quarter?

    *crickets*

  18. Grece says:

    Along with wood gas, I burn used motor oil that’s been filtered down to 5 microns and heated, so as to remove any possible water. I do not see ICE engines being done away with anytime soon.

    Speaking of which, when are you going to get an electric tiller Robert? Those ICE tillers you have are promoting waste to your environment!

  19. Kurkosdr says:

    Of course, who cares if many people who can afford a $10.000 gas burner won’t be able afford a $35.000 Tesla Model 3, those people should be taking the bus anyway. And Tesla is not even making a profit on the damn thing, so don’t expect prices to come down anytime soon. In fact, Tesla intends to make money on ancillary services like charging and repairs, so don’t expect the TCO to be minimal just because the car doesn’t need gas. Tesla already charges $600 a year just to inspect the thing. What… the…

    Let’s be honest, this regulatory move is not about the environment. Cars only account 1/3 of CO2 emissions, and once you account how many cars are in the second and third world (not due to be replaced soon for economic reasons) the benefit becomes miniscule.

    Global Warming is not the issue here. The issue here is that the private automobile is a symbol of freedom for us plebs, and many people from the Regressive Left, who believe in centralisation in a big way, don’t like it that way. Plebs who have freedom of mobility might start doing things like moving out of the city and into their own farm, where they will own the land and become petit-bourgeoisie and start advocating for smaller property taxes, and the Regressive Left would lose them as voters! The horror!

    Stay within the big cities. Stay within the limits that the people who plan public transportation networks and charging stations have defined for you.

  20. Grece says:

    Petey, you dumbass and economics 101 failure, electric cars are not pushing the price up on lithium ion cells, nor would it be a good thing if they theoretically were.

  21. Grece says:

    Petey, you dumbass, we are talking about lithium cells not lead-acid batteries.

  22. Grece says:

    Petey, you dumbass, 5% is not most.

  23. oiaohm says:

    Grece interesting enough most of the electric car batteries are recycled. Same way how most cars go to wreckers at end of life and get recycled. Its lithium in non rechargeable batteries for the likes of watches and hearing aids and items like mobile phones, laptops that end up in landfill or incinerated.

    You see the same thing with lead acid batteries. The lead acid batteries in UPS units are more likely to be in land fill and incinerated(even with the known toxicity) than the batteries in cars and trucks.

    Grece yes the information you brought in is correct but you forgot it covers all types of lithium battery and this does not equally apply. Electric vehicles are fairly clean because they are recycled at end of life just like most of your conventional fuel cars and that don’t product the same level of pollution in their operational life.

    The areas where lithium is used without a good effective recycling program needs to be addressed. Scary point is over 50 percent of the batteries produced using lithium are non rechargeable type I would say past question they should banned.

    https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh/files/jrc105010_161214_li-ion_battery_value_chain_jrc105010.pdf page 6 of this is a very good read.

    This is not generic lithium like yours was. Yours included the non rechargeable usage of lithium that I think should be banned due to how wasteful once usage of this material is. Even out of the rechargeable 50% collection for recycling is not great. Interesting enough of that 50% of the rechargeable collected 30% comes out of the automotive almost 100 percent of the automotive lithium ion get recycled.

    So electric cars pushing the price of lithium ion up and other more wasteful out would be a good thing.

  24. Grece says:

    spew almost no waste into the environment.

    Come now Robert, if anything it would be way more.

    Current levels of lithium collection in the EU are very low. In the case of batteries, this amounts to an estimated 5% of the lithium-ion batteries put on the European market. Most of the current lithium is either dumped in landfill or incinerated, contributing to Europe’s dependency on lithium supply

    http://www.foeeurope.org/sites/default/files/publications/13_factsheet-lithium-gb.pdf

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