Example #9475 Why It’s Stupid To Make A Deal With Trump

“President Trump denies deal has been reached with Democrats over protecting young “Dreamer” undocumented migrants”
 
See Trump denies deal reached over ‘Dreamers’
Two Democratic Party leaders dined with Trump last night and came away proclaiming Trump had agreed on a plan to save the Dreamers combined with increasing border security. As usual, making a deal with a man with no conscience is just an illusion. Trump denied the deal. A few minutes ago, he wrote, “No deal was made last night on DACA. Massive border security would have to be agreed to in exchange for consent.”

So, there you have it. A leader adrift, following random courses according to the breezes, a country in turmoil, a government falling apart all because the electorate was fooled by Russian meddling and Trump’s lies into turning towards the darkness.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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22 Responses to Example #9475 Why It’s Stupid To Make A Deal With Trump

  1. oiaohm says:

    Grece
    Well, when one of your friends are killed by an illegal, get back to me on on how a “valuable” they really are.
    Do some research on that report closer. Those number don’t cover when illegal got caught doing crime that could be murder then sent back over the boarder and then came back over the boarder and did a crime again.

    So there is a issue here. Of course there are a large number of murders that are done by USA citizens who have had poor education and job options so joined gangs.

    Lot of the USA system for handling it own population need work as well as learning to be a lot more careful with the illegals. Not all the people the USA sends back over the boarder should be sent over the boarder as a free person.

    The most important question with illegals is why. Some of the why could be solvable with aid and assistance to deal with the crime problem in Mexico that long term would work out cheaper than sending them back all the time. Some of the why could be making sure the worst of the worst don’t get a get out jail card because they not a USA citizen.

    Remember you we should have a issue of someone we know was killed be a illegal. Exactly why should not mexico people have disrespect when murders get sent back across the boarder without making sure they have the means to prosecute them on the mexico side so people they know end up dead. See problem. They come to USA to work to be safe because USA was the cause of the death of their relatives as well due to crappy handling of sending back criminals.

  2. Grece says:

    Well, when one of your friends are killed by an illegal, get back to me on on how a “valuable” they really are.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article131327329.ece/binary/ICE_Letter.pdf

    Funny you call them “citizens” when they are not even granted such a title.

    Really, DACA is a slap in the face to those that have “legally” immigrated here to the U.S.

  3. wizard emiritus says:

    “I say the rodents must go, all of them. ”

    Rodents, Dougie? You would be hard pressed to get many people to buy that characterization of this particular set of immigrants. IN fact the few I have met seem to me to be more valuable citizens than you are.

    Those who put them in this situation by bringing them here are another matter – they can be deported as far as I am concerned. However unlike you Its going to take more than saying out with all of them to make them go.

  4. Grece wrote, “why in the hell does everyone want to come here?”

    Chuckle. As bad as USA is, it’s better than places with little or no law and order. It’s also on the way to Canada by land…

    Check out these facts for a clue:
    Mexico 61 people per km2 USA 35. So they come for space.
    Mexico $19480 GDP per capita USA $57467. So they come for money.
    Mexico 66% of voting age population voted, USA 55%. So they don’t come for democracy.
    Mexico has universal healthcare. USA does not. So they don’t come for that.

    People come to USA for a variety of reasons depending on individual circumstances. It’s worth noting that far more people don’t come to USA than do. There are reasons for that. I suspect the main reasons Mexicans come to USA are historical and geographic. It’s close and much of USA was Mexican/Spanish until USA took it by force. You can’t undo history and certainly a wall does not undo it. A wall even if no one goes over or under it will only reduce illegal immigration slightly if at all. It’s a total waste of money and represents a loss of land to many property-owners in USA and a threat to several ecosystems on both sides of the border. It’s just a stupid idea latched onto by a stupid old man and you fell for it.

  5. Grece says:

    We are not talking about “illegal immigrants”

    Hmmmm, lets ponder that for a moment shall we?

    – A person of interest, enters your home, without permission. CHECK Note: this is an illegal act.

    – Said person, takes up residence in your home and procreates, like mice mind you, while collecting government assistance from your tax dollars. CHECK

    – Children of permission-less occupants, demand that they be treated as citizens, and be allowed to continue living in your home. CHECK

    So, to simplify, you know have two or three generations of permission-less occupants, living in your home (country) and what shall be done about it?

    I say the rodents must go, all of them.

    It’s humorous that Robert routinely says that U.S. is a terrible country, but why in the hell does everyone want to come here?

  6. oiaohm wrote, “Reality when 80 percent of illegals entering the USA cross into the country by the existing boarder posts building a fence is not going to help much.”

    Reality has never really bothered Trump or Trumpists. They just keep chanting something until they fall over from death or exhaustion. They have replaced reality with repetition. They think it works for them.

  7. Ivan says:

    They opened thousands of accounts on social media and flooded the Internet with Fake News about Hillary and Trump. They did that for a reason, advertising works.

    You realize this is a load of rubbish being floated by the DNC to deflect having to change their platform from Republican-lite to something that is actually Democratic, right?

    Social media has NEVER influenced an American election, if it did John Kerry would have replaced GWB in 2004 or Hillary F’n Clinton would have defeated Black Jesus in the 2008 primaries.

  8. wizard emiritus says:

    “An asset you say? How are illegal immigrants an asset Robert?”

    We are not talking about “illegal immigrants” , we are talking about people brought involuntarily to this country by their parents, who then proceeded to grow up American. Many of them excelled as well. So you are saying that the DACA children are not assets, eh Dougie?

  9. oiaohm says:

    If your parents sneak you into Disneyland without paying, is it Disney’s fault when you are booted out, or is it the fault of your parents?

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/19/news/economy/undocumented-immigrant-taxes/index.html

    Grece really you point asks some serous question. A lot of illegals in the USA do pay legally to cross the boarder and do pay all the legal taxes they should if they were a citizen. So its more like kicking out a person who has paid to legally to enter Disney world and paid all required fees and charges just did not get there ticket properly stamped on entry.

    Lot of that incorrect visa and the like is caused by language barrier problem and seen their own city/town news being a very dangerous place due to drug lords and the like.

    This is the thing a lot of the close to law following illegal immigrants want to be legal and would in their own country if it was safe and had jobs.

    So there are two halves to illegal immigration in the USA. One are people who are doing something really wrong who throwing the book at would be completely right. The other is a group of people feeing a major problem who want to work legally and be law abiding.

    Please note catching drug traffickers and sending the back to their home country with the money they have raised as the USA does is not helping the other side of the boarder. Maybe made non citizen drug trafficking classed as murder and death plenty so you are not sending people who become well funded drug lords over the boarder.

    Also affordable TB treatment and the like is possible for a lot of these people if they come into the USA and get caught and not possible if they don’t. So you have to think is there things USA can do for the near by countries to make those countries better so illegals have no reason to make their way into the USA.

    Reality when 80 percent of illegals entering the USA cross into the country by the existing boarder posts building a fence is not going to help much.

  10. Grece says:

    OH, but it IS perfect Robert!…and you never answered my questions? Home come??

    Illegal immigrants are “home” invaders; the U.S. is MY home and I for one do not want unwelcome guests. Do you want unwelcome guests in your home Robert?

    Most want to work for a living and to contribute….The Dreamers, they are an asset to USA and you should be thankful to have them in USA.

    An asset you say? How are illegal immigrants an asset Robert? The Illegals send over $70B overseas since 2015 and that is money that will NEVER be spent in the U.S. About 40 percent of the money goes to just one country — Mexico — practically all of it sent by migrants in the United States.

    http://www.thedialogue.org/resources/remittances-to-latin-america-and-the-caribbean-in-2016/

  11. Grece wrote, of illegal immigration, “Would you even accept a stranger living in your home uninvited? If not, why not?”

    The analogy is imperfect. Illegal immigrants except perhaps criminals are not home-invaders. Most want to work for a living and to contribute. See, for example, the Dreamers who are apparently upstanding citizensforeign workers/students. They are an asset to USA and you should be thankful to have them in USA.

    An economy works very well if it is growing. Infinite growth is a myth but there is still plenty of room for the USAian economy to grow and one of the means to grow is by immigration, legal or not. It’s not about them taking stuff but contributing ambition, energy, labour and ingenuity.

  12. Grece says:

    Robert, I have a question, if I may.

    If your parents sneak you into Disneyland without paying, is it Disney’s fault when you are booted out, or is it the fault of your parents?

    Conversely, if your parents sneak you into a country illegally, is it the country’s fault when you get deported, or is it the fault of your parents?

    Further on, if someone snuck into your home and took up residence, unapproved mind you, would it be their fault or your fault that they are arrested and sentenced?

    Would you even accept a stranger living in your home uninvited? If not, why not?

  13. Kurkosdr wrote, “The electorate, more accurately the part of the electorate that has no university education and classifies as “unskilled labour”, is afraid of losing whatever little jobs suitable for unskilled workers won’t be made obsolete by automation to immigrants, particularly the illegal type who don’t even pay insurance, so they are easy clientele for politicians like Trump.”

    That’s silly. Immigrants, legal or not, don’t flood the coal-mining areas. They go all over. Coal-mining is shutting down jobs for many reasons including automation. In the old days one miner dug out a few tons of coal per day with a hand-shovel. Now they do that in a second with power-shovels. Nobody owes anyone coal-mining jobs. Nobody can make mining the old way profitable again. However, solar power is a booming industry and almost anyone who can shovel coal can be taught in a few weeks to do most of the steps in installing solar panels. It doesn’t take years of education at university to lay out lines, position and fasten stuff but every solar project can use people who do over much of the world, not just in a few places. In my yard, there will be at least a few person-weeks of work which I will do mostly. I may need a proper electrician to get some permits but I can do most of the work. If I were not me, I could hire a small crew to do the work in a few days. The planting of our hundreds of trees could have hired a crew for months. We did hire a few people with equipment but I did most of the shovelling. The patio and deck was all installed by a hired crew. A lot of the construction and finishing of our house was a hired crew although I and TLW did some work too. It’s all good. People can find or make their own contributions to the economy. Trump is a parasite, not a contributor to that.

    The sky is not falling on labour if labour adapts. The important thing is the health of the overall economy, not just a few sectors. In my life I only twice ever had any trouble getting work and it was easiest when I was young and in the prime of life. People who voted for Trump because they believed his promises that he was the one true solution to their personal problems were sold a lie. Trump is now part of the problem, not the solution. While he may have stimulated some growth in the economy people who voted for Trump are rapidly becoming disillusioned as Trump’s promises fall by the wayside. He couldn’t replace ObamaCare and he can’t build the wall despite having control of government almost totally. Trump’s job-approval is below 40% these days. Fire him!

  14. Grece wrote, “this entire cockamamie analogy of yours HamDong, goes against the standard message, which is the Earth is warming exponentially.”

    Can’t say for sure, but I haven’t seen -40C for years and we’ve set several record hot and dry periods where I live in recent years. We used to get several days of -40C and cooler before. Last winter, the coldest day was something like -34C.

    Only one of the lowest extreme temperatures for all of Canada was recorded in the last decade. Only two of the highest extreme temperatures were recorded in my lifetime. The highest average mean temperature for any location in Canada has risen nearly 2ºC in my lifetime while the lowest average mean temperature has risen nearly 3ºC in my lifetime. I’d say Canadian warming is certainly happening at a great rate. Temporarily, it’s a good thing as my heating bills subside and my trees grow faster, but rainfall is necessary too.

  15. Ivan, the Russians effectively voted without doing any of that. They opened thousands of accounts on social media and flooded the Internet with Fake News about Hillary and Trump. They did that for a reason, advertising works.

  16. oiaohm says:

    Grece
    Allegedly humans are dumping massive heat, and using your analogy, the fridge, would mean that the planet is getting colder.
    Really miss guess the example completely you idiot.

    This heat pump effect can happen with air-currents in the atmosphere.

    I said heat pump in the atmosphere where did I say it takes heat out of the earth.

    Thermodynamics says
    The first law of thermodynamics, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed

    If the thermal pump in the atmosphere is making the world cooler over all it has to be sending the heat somewhere. The the thermal pump in the atmosphere can make areas cooler while making other areas hotter.

    I said this effect can happen on earth. For my example the earth would be the room the fridge is sitting. The power powering the fridge is the sun. The fridge is the effects of the winds of the earth and the heat pumping effect those do generate.

    So the room is progressively getting warmer. Areas need the radiator on the fridge are get very hot and areas inside the fridge are getting colder or not changing at all.

    Earth is warming exponentially. << The room that the fridge is in with my example would show signs of warming exponentially if it room was well sealed. Now if you put your measurement systems in the room in the fridge in my example you could claim the room is dropping in temperature exponentially while the room is increase in temperature exponentially.

    The heat pump effect is what makes it really hard to work out how much the earth is really warming or cooling and why you can get deceptive numbers.

    Grece basically claim that my example would make the earth cooler not higher is you completely being a idiot and breaking the first law of thermodynamics.

    This should tell you that someone attempt to explain if the world is warming or cooling should have a background that does cover thermodynamics and fluid dynamics because you do need both model out earth wind patterns to work out how much heat pumping is going on. Please note a common example of heat pump effect with air is wind chill. But the heat pump effect with air on earth is not just limited to wind chill.

    Grece basically you don't understand the basics yet you want to talk against global warming.

  17. Ivan says:

    government falling apart all because the electorate was fooled by Russian meddling and Trump’s lies into turning towards the darkness.

    Feel free to immigrate legally, get your citizenship, register to vote, and make sure another neo-liberal whore doesn’t reach the top of the Democratic ticket if it means that much to you.

  18. Grece says:

    This heat pump effect can happen with air-currents in the atmosphere.

    Ok….

    Global warming means the is more heat power in the air and more air movement.

    Alright…..

    So global warming may mean some areas become hard to live in because they have turned colder.

    Which just goes against your major point. Allegedly humans are dumping massive heat, and using your analogy, the fridge, would mean that the planet is getting colder. Which constitutes as simple thermodynamics. But this entire cockamamie analogy of yours HamDong, goes against the standard message, which is the Earth is warming exponentially.

    So obviously you cannot even keep your story straight, let alone use a simple analogy to prove yourself. Just recall, it was you that stated, “making invalid claims without support evidence is a prosecutable offense

    IDIOT

  19. oiaohm says:

    Kurkosdr automation is also targeting skilled workers like lawyers.

    http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/34523/23-April-2007-Automated-assistance-to-administrative-decision-making-Launch-of-the-better-practice-guide.pdf

    The writing was kinda on the wall for me when I read this in 2007. Yes the automated assistance to administrative decision making is design to put university educated population out of jobs.

    Really thinking automation will not come after you job is foolish.

  20. oiaohm says:

    Grece making invalid claims without support evidence is a prosecutable offense in most places. A lot of the “Global Warming is a Hoax” is ignoring valid evidence and taking way to simplistic of model. Global Warming cannot really be discuses with considering global dimming effects. Yes areas heavily effected by global dimming will be cooler than normal even if average global temperatures are up.

    Most of the Hoax claims are cherry picking numbers to make false and misleading representation. To be correct the term global warming is partly misleading in it self because most people think that global warming equals warmer for everyone when reality is some areas will be colder. Why colder think you for fridge without power the inside of your fridge is fairly close to the same temperature as outside. You apply power the heat pump in fridge goes to work and inside of fridge gets colder and back of fridge gets warmer. This heat pump effect can happen with air-currents in the atmosphere. Global warming means the is more heat power in the air and more air movement. So global warming may mean some areas become hard to live in because they have turned colder.

    There are some people talking about global warming who need to be pulled over the coals for giving out incorrect information to the public including pushing the idea that global warming always equals warmer.

  21. Grece says:

    On the obverse, you can be investigated for saying “Global Warming is a Hoax” in Canada

    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/09/13/canada-now-investigates-climate-denial

  22. Kurkosdr says:

    The electorate, more accurately the part of the electorate that has no university education and classifies as “unskilled labour”, is afraid of losing whatever little jobs suitable for unskilled workers won’t be made obsolete by automation to immigrants, particularly the illegal type who don’t even pay insurance, so they are easy clientele for politicians like Trump.

    Unless you have a solution for those people, they will keep voting for Trumps in a (vain?) effort to keep immigrants out, or at least the illegal kind of immigrants.

    Sorry, one person, one vote. It is irrational to believe that you can live in a democracy where the majority of non-university-educated population suffers and that everything will be peachy.

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