Maybe, Just Maybe, There’s Another Clue To The Whereabouts of MH-370

Two weeks after the disappearance of MH-370, a French satellite collected images from the Indian Ocean. Years later, a selection of images that showed some floating objects were turned over to Australia. Thorough analysis strongly suggests several large man-made objects were floating north of the zone that had been thoroughly searched.

Is this sufficient to restart the search? Possibly, but the Aussies should probably get other images of scenes nearby from that satellite to further refine the analysis.

This is a case that screams out for better technology for searching oceans. How about a nuclear-powered autonomous robot that can do the job 24X7 for as long as it takes instead of constantly having to resupply vessels loaded with humans? How about using submarines that can work in all kinds of weather? How about armies of these things so that parallel processing can get the job done in a decent period of time?

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology, weather and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.

14 Responses to Maybe, Just Maybe, There’s Another Clue To The Whereabouts of MH-370

  1. oiaohm says:

    Please note commercial aircraft flying down the west coast of Australia are required to be closer in than where MH370 possible was due to the weaker over the horizon where on the East coast they are allowed father out. So this is something that is being considered after MH370 of increasing Australia west and south over the horizon radar coverage.

  2. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson I am not wrong on those images. All early aircrash reports are classified. Please take a closer look at page 10 classified placement. The algorithm for detecting items in images is classified. Page 11,12 and 13 you see segments of real images PLEIADES 1A no classification tag on them. So the word classified is not on PLEIADES 1A images.

    Please note PLEIADES pictures were secret not classified so when you are seeing classified branding is not applying to PLEIADES. The general classification for all sat data transfered from intelligence body to intelligence body is secret.

    Many of the countries in the region have quite sophisticated over the horizon radars, long range geoacoustic surveillance systems, a range of satellite assets, plus the usual military sensing systems (radars, sonars, lidars, infrared imaging, long range towed array sonars on ships and submarines) and other systems on high altitude aircraft. Nothing moves without them seeing it.
    This is correct and incorrect. Ram the aircraft happened to be out of range of Australia over the horizon radar system. Issue here is historically it has been focused north and east this does leave a tactical weakness in the south and west exactly where MH370 goes. If the aircraft had come down the east coast it could have been in radar coverage.

    Next problem is yes it most likely that some sat caught MH370 in it images. Now it volume of data a lot of sat data is archived and not processed for if boats or aircraft is in that area. This is why Geoscience Australia and others have been attempt to develop automated systems for this. The man made object detection was again developed for east, north and south coast of Australia for detect illegal fishing not tuned for hunting for aircraft in fact tuned to ignore aircraft. The area need to be searched for MH370 means without automated processing of sat pictures we really did not stand a chance of finding it. Why the images showing where MH370 was is in a few PB of data per day. So a true needle in hay stack. As mythbusers proved finding a needle in hay stack is possible but you have to have effective methods. This really shows aircraft investigators need access to man made object detection and aircraft detection processing of sat photos so that a missing aircraft can be traced picture to picture and wreckage fields can be found quicker.

    It comes back to why sat photos transfered between intelligence bodies is tag secret most cases the traded data has not be processed so the intelligence body does not know what is in there. 99.9 percent of sat image data is never processed by anyone. So the eyes are open and no body is home.

  3. ram wrote, “No way a big signature (radar, acoustic, and infrared) object such as commercial jet airliner just goes “missing”.
     
    The major powers have such capabilities on a global basis, so they MUST know what happened.”

    Even if that were true, there’s no motivation for them to reveal that and there’s no reason they can’t “accidentally” lead the search to the crash site. So, they will reveal the information in their own sweet time, say, in 30 years or so.

    OTOH, there’s no particular reason anyone would be looking for military threats in the southern Indian ocean. There aren’t many people there to generate threats.

  4. ram says:

    Many of the countries in the region have quite sophisticated over the horizon radars, long range geoacoustic surveillance systems, a range of satellite assets, plus the usual military sensing systems (radars, sonars, lidars, infrared imaging, long range towed array sonars on ships and submarines) and other systems on high altitude aircraft. Nothing moves without them seeing it. They can easily detect something as small as a cruise missile launch. No way a big signature (radar, acoustic, and infrared) object such as commercial jet airliner just goes “missing”.

    The major powers have such capabilities on a global basis, so they MUST know what happened.

  5. ram wrote, “There is absolutely NO WAY something as large as an airliner “disappears” anywhere remotely near Australia.”

    Several things:

    • The estimated crash site is nowhere near Australia. It’s over 1000 miles away from Australia.
    • Airliners can “disappear” anywhere far at sea and not be noticed because the usual radars don’t work over the horizon. If the Malaysians had figured out what was happening in real time, there might have been a systematic sweep by radar-equipped planes to track the plane but that didn’t happen.
    • The size of the plane is irrelevant if no one is there to see it. The best we could hope for was some chance encounter or data from a satellite. We had that, such as it was. We’ve recently seen two US warships collide with big merchant vessels even when people are being paid to look. Imagine the wee hours far from anything with no one looking.
  6. ram says:

    There is absolutely NO WAY something as large as an airliner “disappears” anywhere remotely near Australia. Certainly, absolutely certainly, the three big major powers know exactly what happened, and probably the next five or so “minor” powers know as well.

  7. oiaohm wrote, “Robert Pogson you have you time line badly wrong. Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) received the Pleiades sat images inside a few months of the MH270 going missing”.

    Sadly, oiaohm has the timeline badly wrong. The images were taken a few days after the crash but were not received until this year.

    “Geoscience Australia (GA) was asked to assist the Australian Transport Safety Authority (ATSB) in the analysis of a set of four Airbus PLEIADES 1A images. GA received these images for analysis on the 23 March 2017.
     
    The data was acquired over the Indian Ocean on the 23 March 2014. The analysis performed by GA was to determine whether the images included objects that were potentially man-made in origin. GA analyses included semi-automatic workflows and a number of potential objects were identified.”

    The images were labelled “Classified” by the French Military Intelligence Service. See page 10.

  8. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson you have you time line badly wrong. Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) received the Pleiades sat images inside a few months of the MH270 going missing. The computer algorithm to find non natural items in images did not exist so they had to be human eyeball searched. From what the algorithm as found now a lot was missed.

    The images were only given to Geoscience Australia now they have something that can help in that department.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades_(satellite) everything taken by the Pleiades sat that is not mil base or otherwise classified is up for anyone to buy. Including the possible areas where MH370 went down.

    Nothing about the res or orbits of the Pleiades Satellites is secret so there is limited need to classify the the images on technology grounds. Only reason the images were classified was so they would not be given away for free to the media and the like who could buy them from Spot Image.

    If another MH370 happened and the same data went to air-crash investigators and the new algorithm is used search most likely would have been more effective.

    The new algorithm mostly comes out of how expensive it was to physically ship search the area and that would not have been done the way it was if the algorithm existed.

    To be able to give peace to the people who lost relatives on MH370 we need to find as much of it as we can.

    Robert Pogson the big picture is the french did not do anything wrong. We did not have the technology at the time to take proper advantage of the image data.

  9. oiaohm wrote, “The bad news here is a lot of aircraft parts in 1Km water will will in fact drift for years before reaching bottom if it ever makes it to bottom”.

    You guys are missing the fact that the pictures in question were taken days after the crash, not months or years. It took this long for them to surface because the French did not want to release the status of their satellite technology to the world, not because the drift brought them far far away from the crash.

  10. oiaohm says:

    Things drift but it’s days of drift, not years

    The bad news here is a lot of aircraft parts in 1Km water will will in fact drift for years before reaching bottom if it ever makes it to bottom.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/two-more-pieces-of-possible-mh370-debris-wash-up-in-mauritius/news-story/fb6972af33726da5f8b11badd67879c2

    Years after we are still getting confirmed debris wash-up from MH370. The lightweight construction of that class of aircraft means it does not sink quickly to the bottom in deep water. You are talking sinking that takes years for the fragments to become stationary.

    Big fragments could have floated off heck knows where at this stage. Please note even after is sunk where sat pictures no longer shows the fragments it still can be drifting.

  11. oiaohm wrote, “that information is from the time of the crash. Before sinking those fragments will drift. Now that is the nightmare we have found possible fragment all those years ago but knowing where to look for them now is a totally different problem.”

    I don’t think there’s much value in finding those particular pieces. The value is in the images which show where the pieces were a few days after the crash. Things drift but it’s days of drift, not years, that matter in this case. Of course, there’s no certainty that the pieces are from MH-370. If they are that large and that irregular though, I’m thinking the chances are good. Most floating garbage is not like that so I’m hoping the pieces are not garbage but wreckage of the plane. If there are pieces of the plane that fit the dimensions of those pieces in the pictures and would float, I’d be inclined to renew the search. The refinement of the timing signals and these pictures both point to a zone a bit north of where they searched before. It’s coming together.

  12. oiaohm says:

    Yes those images are interesting until you are aware that that information is from the time of the crash. Before sinking those fragments will drift. Now that is the nightmare we have found possible fragment all those years ago but knowing where to look for them now is a totally different problem.

    The improvements since back then to now in processing sat images for drifting fragments has come long way. The scary part is that it could take another 2 years to have the processing for where to look for those floating fragments then it will come a question of resources.

    Many drones were already used in the MH370 search. Some are still deployment being the ones for current and sea temperature monitoring some of those are also mapping sea-floor. They still need to be serviced because the life of the sea loves growing on them.

    Of course the big problem comes processing all the data and that in that area the sea floor has never been completely mapped so there is no base line to compare to.

  13. Grece says:

    Maybe, just maybe, one day you will realize that you life has not amounted to squat.

  14. Grece says:

    Careful Robert.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4844348/Conspiracy-theory-diplomat-probing-MH370-shot-dead.html

    These individuals were sacrificed to Xenu, you need to respect that.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *