We’ll Make Electric Vehicles But We Are Reluctant

“What is often left out of this conversation is that the auto industry is not the only thing that is at stake here. Basically, those automakers are asking the Chinese government to let them sell their polluting vehicles in their country for a longer period of time without penalties.
 
China has an important problem of air pollution that is believed to be the cause of over 4,000 deaths every day. This initiative is part of their campaign to reduce the air pollution in cities and its impact on the health of its population.
 
The country is also addressing the issue on the energy front by adding renewable energy on its grid faster than any country, which in turn, is making electric vehicles even greener by being powered by this increasingly greener electric grid.”
 
See Virtually all automakers (except for Tesla) are asking China to slow down electric car mandate
Who do these car-makers think they are? Gods? If a nation decides to go electric, they should deliver what the customer wants, not what helps them resist change.

EV technology is sufficiently mature there is little or no technical reason to delay ramping up production of EVs. Thank Goodness there are specialists like Tesla and Electra Meccanica whose major products are EVs. They will gladly ramp up production to help China change whether or not the Biggies cooperate. Maybe Trump should remind them that the customer is always right… No, he’s busy trying to tell the world to cling to fossil fuel because USA has lots of it. Ironically, the reason USA has lots of fossil fuel is that government forced auto-makers to make smaller more efficient cars and trucks… Going a step further to EVs would allow USA to ship even more fossil fuel to supply the world’s reluctant nations. Surprise! There aren’t many reluctant nations except TrumpWorld. Trump/USA wants to sell a deprecated product whether it’s good for people or not.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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42 Responses to We’ll Make Electric Vehicles But We Are Reluctant

  1. oiaohm says:

    Grece no he did not answer to peter he correct you for invalid and complete statement that you really need to stop doing. DrLoser had facts wrong like listing the wrong cities for compare and in fact not looking into if those large cities are in fact doing all right.

  2. Grece says:

    I always knew Robert, that you would someday, answer to “Peter”.

  3. Grece wrote, “if someone told you the sky was blue, you would argue that it was not, then ramble-on for a few minutes as to why”.

    All but the wilfully ignorant celebrate such intellect. Clearly the sky is often reddish at sunrise/set, white, grey and even greenish in some conditions. Astronomers celebrate black skies.

  4. Grece says:

    Quack… Peter.

    I am willing to bet, you are the type of individual that if someone told you the sky was blue, you would argue that it was not, then ramble-on for a few minutes as to why.

  5. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density
    There are not many places at 60K per mile squared Guttenberg, New Jersey is the only place in the USA that gets close and its only really small. So not New York. Do note all the USA ones of large population are closed to sea so area for pollution to disperse into so cannot be compared to India.

    London is not even close 3,900/sq mi is it density.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population_density

    So London that small its not on this list. So only one you had right was Paris.

    India problem is like the city of Mumbai not only does it have a population over 60 000/sq mi is 4 times larger than Paris.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-pollution-increase-air-smog-france-capital-car-limits-fossil-fuels-weather-a7500426.html
    The one you had right Paris is right on the edge of being population deadly.

    NOx emissions can be controlled by proper hybrids so increase the amount of usable O2. Why the catalytic converter does not work well when the ICE engine revs are going up and down because it does not get to a stable working temperature. So in a geared box ICE car/truck the catalytic converter works great when you are driving down the highway. Does not work that great when you are doing start stop city driving because it not staying at right temperature.

    The idea of direct drive ICE for places like Mumbai is really not an option as people wealth increases. Also direct drive ICE need to disappear from Paris. ICE running a generator where it can run a fixed speed and electric motor doing the drive is really the future of ICE engine motoring for these high density cities. Of course hybrid like this can still have batteries and still be charging up at night so again reducing emissions produced inside the city.

    At 60000 per square mi for most places is when they should start banning direct drive ICE transport solutions. Also the high populations also make you question the thing of 1 person per full sized car you see in the usa. Its parking space problem. You could park 2 solo to 1 car bay.

    Please do not say motor cycles as they put out higher NOx and other airborne problems than cars.

  6. DrLoser says:

    Some cities in India have 60K people per square mile. If all of them drove ICEd vehicles there would be no oxygen left and plenty of CO2 and NOx.

    You are an idiot, Pogson. People in such environments (think also New York, London, Paris, etc) do not do that.

    Why? Because it doesn’t scale. Congratulations on your minimal drooling understanding of how urban transport works, Bobbie, but hey, y’know?

    Smarter people than you realised that this does not scale. And they realised it about a hundred and fifty years ago.

    Stop wasting our time with your agricultural whining, old man.

  7. DrLoser says:

    Is there a possibility that at some point one fo the players in the market will come up with an “economy” EV, but because they are not likely to cut corners the way that you will, it is doubtful that you will get your el-cheapo EV from them.

    It’s interesting you should ask that question, Wiz. Because the Tesla Model 3 is about to hit the mass market at a base price of $35,000.

    And VW claims they can sell the same thing for cheaper.

    And it is a real car. A saloon, in fact.

    And (in general terms) it is available now. You don’t have to sign up for a lottery ticket. You don’t have to wait until 2020 or whatever.

    But that’s not the best thing!

    If Bobbie can stop piddling in his adult incontinence diapers and just wait, he can buy a second-hand Tesla Model 3 in 2020 for roughly the price of a … cretin tricycle thing. And it would make far more sense. Why commit yourself to abject lunacy right now, when you can wait?

    Oh hang on, we’re talking about Robert Pogson here. Abject lunacy right now it is.

  8. DrLoser says:

    My own suspicion is that in the end you will be too cheap to purchase what would meet your real need (an electric vehicle) as opposed to the needs of your cheapness (less $$$), and will simply wait until the market matures to the point where you can purchase your EV at the price you think it should be.

    Plausible, Wiz, but I feel you miss both the axioms and the methodology that have led Bobbie to live a successful life as a miser sucking on the tits of just about any large benevolent entity going.

    On the axioms, we need to consider only one. It must cost Bobbie nothing, or almost nothing. That’s pretty much it for the axioms.

    On the methodology, those of us who have suffered the insufferable — which is to say, eight or more years of Bobbie prating on about things he won’t stump up for and consequently cannot claim he believes in — are well aware of what will happen next.

    1) EM goes tits-up.
    2) Bobbie makes pious silly comments about how it’s all the fault of the USAsians or some ninny other term.
    3) Bobbie buys a flat-bed truck for errands and carting deer carcases around, and The Wonderful Little Woman continues to drive her SUV for the next 150,000 miles. (Presumably on diesel.)

    Bobbie will claim this is not so. But then again, Bobbie is not capable of convincing a five year old.

  9. The Wiz wrote, “EM has to up their production rate to even have a chance – something that they have not done yet and (unfortunately for you) don’t look like they will be able to do.”

    I believe they can multiply their production by reinvesting their revenue in parts and people. At the moment, they are using their tech people as assemblers, part time. That’s useful to build a cadre of trainers but they need severals shifts of dedicated assemblers spewing out multiple vehicles per day. They can work 17 shifts a week full-time on a single assembly line and get an explosive ramp-up. There is enough margin in each car to do that without any further investment. The reason they are not doing that yet is not because they can’t but because it’s very risky if they don’t have certification in the bag. It’s taking longer to certify a car than to build it the way it’s done now. Soon, they will do normal quality control and affix a sticker.

    I’ve worked on an assembly line. There’s no comparison between setting things up which might take weeks to make a few test-vehicles and nearly 24×7 operation which makes many per day on a single assembly line. With four/five stations EMV should be able to spit out a finished Solo every hour. The big guys do it every few minutes but they have much longer lines and more workers in parallel. As long as there’s no competition in this space from the big guys, EMV will be profitable for years to come.

  10. wizard emiritus says:

    “Surely there is a market for that but it’s debatable whether the units sold in that range will be more or less than what Solo could achieve. ”

    Is there a possibility that at some point one fo the players in the market will come up with an “economy” EV, but because they are not likely to cut corners the way that you will, it is doubtful that you will get your el-cheapo EV from them.

    And since by your own admission EM has to up their production rate to even have a chance – something that they have not done yet and (unfortunately for you) don’t look like they will be able to do. “your” Solo is probably never going to arrive.

  11. Deaf Spy wrote, “such a family will buy one big car and optionally a second small one.”

    Yes, the Solo. For folks who commute or do a lot of errands, a Solo saves enough money to offset a second set of taxes, insurance, and a little maintenance. It gets about 7 times the MPGe as ICEd full-sized cars and 5 times the MPGe of compacts.

  12. Deaf Spy says:

    Remember, it is reality that most drivers and trips are done solo. It’s just a waste of capital to spend money on seats and battery and body that aren’t being put to good use. You can buy two Solos for the price of one silly car.

    You’ve been preaching the same sermon, but about “small cheap computers” and “idling cores” that “waste energy”. Just replace cars with computers. Most of the time people use a fraction of the power of their CPUs, and their cores are indeed idling. And you can buy two PentiumGs for the price of one i5.

    Of course, problem is that it never works like that. People never buy two inferior products to replace a superior one when they might need the latter every now and then. Just like when people buy powerful CPUs for the short moments when they do need them, people buy large cars for the moments they need them.

    In theory, a family of four may buy two small cars and make long trips with them. In reality, such a family will buy one big car and optionally a second small one.

    So, Robert, you notion of how things should be doesn’t quite match with how things are.

  13. The Wiz wrote, “You are more likely to see EV’s getting 200mile on a charge at a reasonable cost (ca $25K-30K US) than you will from a company like EM.”

    Surely there is a market for that but it’s debatable whether the units sold in that range will be more or less than what Solo could achieve. Remember, it is reality that most drivers and trips are done solo. It’s just a waste of capital to spend money on seats and battery and body that aren’t being put to good use. You can buy two Solos for the price of one silly car.

    I know some people buy cars for fun and other silliness but there is a core of consumers who need transportation and will shop by comparison. If Solo is on their radar a good fraction will choose it. In a year or so Solo will be on people’s radar because hundreds will be out there and soon thousands. It’s more a matter of time than any imminent failure of EMV.

    Note that investors have not rushed to sell their shares although they could. They have not even offered to sell their shares although they could. The investors still have faith because they know EMV has a very conservative plan not getting ahead of themselves too much like Elio. I agree that 2017 is critical. Money is tight. That’s normal not a sign of imminent failure. That they are delivering units even just a few is a sign of imminent success. They are very close to making money, a lot of it.

  14. wizard emiritus says:

    Make that $25K-$30K US…

  15. wizard emiritus says:

    “Solo EV could be a big hit. Both are quite possible. I’ve explained how.”

    Sorry but in the end all of your elaborate explanations hinge on an “if” clause going the way that you wish it to be. Unfortunately, It is more likely given the observable state current state of EM’s “production” line that they will fail to ramp up their production and, as you have admitted, fail.

    Its nice to want Robert Pogson. But if the indications of the market as expressed in the EV offerings from the major auto makers. You are more likely to see EV’s getting 200mile on a charge at a reasonable cost (ca $25-39 US) than you will from a company like EM.

  16. The Wiz wrote, “by your own admission it does not look good for the EM solo”.

    I don’t admit that at all. If

    • EMV gets certification done and
    • they ramp up production

    Solo EV could be a big hit. Both are quite possible. I’ve explained how.

  17. oiaohm says:

    The EM BOLO is NO Spitfire by a long shot, as for one, there were no electric planes back then and there are none now
    http://www.flyingmag.com/hybrid-electric-aircraft-motor-powers-up
    Grece get up to date. Even in aircraft we are seeing gearing disappear replaced by electric generator and electric motor.

    So yes there are electric aircraft around in prop based. So if you were planning to design a new Spitfire today there is every chance you would be looking at a hybrid design engine for high fuel effectiveness so extended range.

  18. wizard emiritus says:

    “Why should I buy something I don’t need? ”

    Because the market has dictated what you can get at a given price. Right now by your own admission it does not look good for the EM solo. If EM goes belly up, you will be faced with either sticking a crowbar in your wallet for what is available or doing without.

    My own suspicion is that in the end you will be too cheap to purchase what would meet your real need (an electric vehicle) as opposed to the needs of your cheapness (less $$$), and will simply wait until the market matures to the point where you can purchase your EV at the price you think it should be.

  19. Grece says:

    Comparing the Bolo to a Spitfire? LMAO… don’t make me pee myself Robert.

    The EM BOLO is NO Spitfire by a long shot, as for one, there were no electric planes back then and there are none now.

  20. Grece wrote, “does this mean you would be NOT in a rush for a any other EV?”

    The other EVs are not optimal for my use-case: single occupant/short trips. I don’t have any use for the greater weight, greater air-drag, increased maintenance and cost of electrical energy. e.g. A Tesla would use twice as much electricity and the Leaf about 50% more. They are both better than my SUV but too much like it: more doors, more seats, stuff I don’t need. Why should I buy something I don’t need? I also don’t like the style of either. Remember Snoopy’s flying dog-house? Those other EVs are like Snoopy flying a dog-house when I want to fly a SpitFire. I don’t want to push air out of the way. I want to fly through it.

  21. Grece says:

    So with you NOT being in a rush, does this mean you would be NOT in a rush for a any other EV?

  22. Grece wrote, “When are you buying a Leaf Robert?”

    I’m in no rush. TLW would more likely drive it than I. So far she hasn’t tired of the SUV’s endless demand for gasoline, oil and repairs. Insurance on it is $1550 per annum, too… 🙁

  23. Grece says:

    When are you buying a Leaf Robert?

  24. oiaohm wrote, “30 to 50 percent saving is not coming out of getting rid of the gear box its getting rid of the mechanical drive train.”

    I think the efficiency of electricity is the big winner here. You lose a bit in charging and conversion but that’s it. There’s no huge exhaust of hot gases. There’s no pollution to speak of. There aren’t thousands of moving parts bathed in hot oil. It’s just a better way to do things except in corner cases like driving long distances which some of us never/rarely do. I can easily deal with that by planning ahead a bit, something I would normally do for longer trips anyway. I can travel as far as Calgary and Edmonton with Solo EV, in summer, with not much difficulty except some time spent charging. Going east is problematic because of distances between stations but I haven’t been to Ontario for decades, so it’s not a problem for me. Most of us live in/near cities so Solo will do.

  25. oiaohm says:

    WTF you smoking? I have serviced both before myself. Between replacing throw-out bearings, clutch plates, torque converters, and clutch packs. You make it sound like its inherently hard to do so, when it is not.

    Grece really did you ever check the efficiency rating of the repair. Thinking I have worked on race grade gear boxes. Yes changing the parts is quite simple but changing them and not end up with 4 percent extra losses many times over is the hard bit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmV4qwLfOMY
    This show the basic problem you reworked the gearbox right you played with the drive shaft is not exactly back were it was. This is something that electric drive train allows you to reduce. Even almost new car will have drive shaft placement defects.

    Reality is you want me to go way grese because you are posting crap.

    Repairing a electric drive train to perfection is a lot simpler than the mechanical. Yes the mechanical appears easy until you start putting repaired items through performance test and notice that efficiency has dropped then having to spend hours getting everything back in exactly the right place a thousand of a mm here or there can make quite a bit of performance difference.

    Mechanical drive train has to die. It too hard to keep right. As Mechanical drive train wears it ceases to remain right as well.

    30 to 50 percent saving is not coming out of getting rid of the gear box its getting rid of the mechanical drive train.

  26. Grecewrote, “How many gigawatts Robert?”

    In 2016, Wind reached 487 gW, PV 303 gW and hydro 1096 gW. PV grew 32% per annum. Sunshine is just about everywhere.
    See http://www.ren21.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GSR2017_Highlights_FINAL.pdf

  27. Grece wrote, “How many electric vehicles are being sold??”

    A lot more each year. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

    “Global sales of the light-duty plug-in vehicle segment achieved a 0.86% market share of total new car sales in 2016, up from 0.62% in 2015 and 0.38% in 2014.”

    A million highway-capable EVs sold by September 2016.

    More are on the way.

  28. Grece says:

    They are all building solar, wind, tidal renewable energy plants.

    How many gigawatts Robert? How many electric vehicles are being sold??

  29. Grece wrote, “where will all that gigawatts of power come from say in China, India and the rest of the world??”

    They are all building solar, wind, tidal renewable energy plants. ICEd transportation and electrical systems just don’t scale when you have huge population densities. Some cities in India have 60K people per square mile. If all of them drove ICEd vehicles there would be no oxygen left and plenty of CO2 and NOx. Further the power plants close to cities can’t emit all that junk either. So, EVs and renewable energy is the way to go.

  30. Grece wrote, “I have serviced both before myself. Between replacing throw-out bearings, clutch plates, torque converters, and clutch packs.”

    Hey, didn’t Grece and others recently scold me for being economical??? Doesn’t Grece want the poor service-people to be paid?

  31. Grece says:

    No one cares what you think Peter. Go away and go pick some fruit.

  32. Grece says:

    You forgot the transmission, which is either a highly complex automatic gearbox that nobody but an official dealership can service, or a manual gearbox with a clutch plate which wears out over time and can only be replaced with a transmission-out service job, which is exactly what it sounds.

    WTF you smoking? I have serviced both before myself. Between replacing throw-out bearings, clutch plates, torque converters, and clutch packs. You make it sound like its inherently hard to do so, when it is not.

  33. Grece says:

    My region has surplus enough to sell at a discount at night. We get a premium for power exported in daytime so it is encouraged to charge EVs at night.

    Canada, has a population of ONLY 35M, essentially the same size as California. Instead of thinking ONLY about yourself Robert, where will all that gigawatts of power come from say in China, India and the rest of the world??

  34. oiaohm says:

    http://www.trybrid.org/trimaran/about-2/how-does-diesel-electric-save-fuel/

    ICE design have some serous limitations. Also a lot of hybrids were done wrong.

    Diesel-electric rail train set-up shows the problem with direct drive ICE engines.

    Grece welcome to the horrible reality. To make a ICE engine work at max effectiveness in general road conditions you need a generator and electric drive motor and some form of storage.

    Why ICE engine have a efficiency sweet spot. Gear boxes are not worse on effectiveness than a good generator and direct electric drive motor. Between 30-50% fuel saving is on the table from removing the gearbox putting a generator straight on the ICE engine and putting a direct drive electric engine in and installing some storage.

    Then the question comes since you need a electric direct drive engine anyhow why not do way with the ICE engine and generator and use that weight for storage.

    Yes the electric engine allows picking up regenerative breaking and alternative power source to ICE.

    Big thing is a electric/ICE hybrid done right does not have the sound of putting foot down more noise in most cases. There was a issue with picky consumers.

    Yes generator, electric direct electric motor and storage has less complexity to repair than gear boxes. Yes electric motor well design only need 1 gear for 0-300km hour with no effectively change and able to put down way more torque.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/05/volvo-cars-electric-hybrid-2019

    Reality we are come to the end of the pure ICE car/truck. Remember 30-50 percent saving even if we remain using oil. Of course when a car is hybrid done electric train style nothing stops it doing short runs not using ICE engine. So be it a solo or be it hybrid the electrical grid is going to have to find the power.

    Transmission+ICE lack of efficiency is a big one.

  35. Kurkosdr says:

    @Grece

    It doesn’t matter how good the ICE is, the politicians have decided to not let the ICE live, not independently of an electric motor in a hybrid setup anyway. The EU is already talking about (aka warning the industry of) capping CO2 emissions to a level that pure ICE cars will be pushed to the low end of the market. Expect anything above 1.6 litres that isn’t a hybrid to not pass emissions.

    Which is why I think companies like Fiat Chrysler are making a mistake by stocking up on carbon credits. They have no idea how new CO2 limits can eat through those carbon credits in no time. Or they do and the CEO is maximising short-term profit while preparing his golden parachute.

    Let’s see… ICEs have engines as well as alternators, oil/water pumps, radiators, injectors, distributors…

    You forgot the transmission, which is either a highly complex automatic gearbox that nobody but an official dealership can service, or a manual gearbox with a clutch plate which wears out over time and can only be replaced with a transmission-out service job, which is exactly what it sounds.

    Tell me, where is all that gigawatts of electricity going to come from when everyone has an electric doo-dad in their driveway? It’s sure as heck not going to be wind farms.

    Even if it comes partly from coal, it will reduce the Western world’s dependency on countries like Saudi Arabia and their Sheik’s, and that’s a good thing. It would be better if Saudi Arabia was a protectorate so the Western world could have plenty of oil without having to fund terrorism, but this is not the case.

  36. Grece wrote, “where is all that gigawatts of electricity going to come from when everyone has an electric doo-dad in their driveway? It’s sure as heck not going to be wind farms.”

    My region has surplus enough to sell at a discount at night. We get a premium for power exported in daytime so it is encouraged to charge EVs at night. We make most of our power by hydro but the wind turbines do provide enough for EVs because EVs are so efficient. Manitoba has 258 MW peak wind power installed. See https://www.gov.mb.ca/jec/energy/wind/windfarms.html A Solo draws 7kW during Level 2 charging for 3h for a full charge. If 100K Solos charged at random times during a day for ¼ charge the average load would be 7kW X ¼ X 3h / 24h X 100K = 700MW/32, quite doable by wind except the wind-power is at some distance from population centres but that would save hydro load and they have it covered.

  37. Grece says:

    So, TFA is a fine example of garbage in garbage out, extremist style. ADL is known to accept payment from big business to whitewash their sins. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_D._Little#Controversy

    After reading TFA I expect Big Oil or the Big Four automakers paid them handsomely. It really is an atrocious smear of EVs.

    Wow, you mention some alleged controversy from the late eighties Robert? Is that the best you can bring up?? Perhaps, the incident was negligence, as India is not the safest place to work. as they have no safety regulations. Just watch some of the foundry videos on YouTube showing Indians pouring hot metal in bare feet.

    Tell me, where is all that gigawatts of electricity going to come from when everyone has an electric doo-dad in their driveway? It’s sure as heck not going to be wind farms.

  38. Grece wrote, “Wouldn’t the complexity of said EV over ICE, decrease the reliability of said vehicle?”

    Let’s see… ICEs have engines as well as alternators, oil/water pumps, radiators, injectors, distributors… and the parts-count of the alternator alone might match the motor of an EV like Solo. Now, cars like Leaf and Teslas have all kinds of luxurious parts which may reduce the comparison, but if you just compare the moving parts of an engine to an electric motor, it’s no contest. An EV can be much more reliable. Generally speaking an electrical/electronic device can have decades of reliable service whereas an ICEd vehicle needs constant maintenance and repair. e.g. It’s unusual for a clothes drier or washer to need repair for 20 years whereas an ICEd vehicle needs service several times per annum. On the Leaf, for instance, the big service items are tires and brake fluid. Many Leafs and Teslas have never had even a change of battery as long as owners can tolerate a slow decline in range.


    I started reading Grece’s link and had to stop early. It’s too funny. For instance, TFA ignores taxes on fuel for ICEd vehicles and subsidies for EVs, and assumes 150Kmiles driven in 20 years, greatly reducing production of greenhouse gases and costs by ICEd vehicles. TLW, all by herself, drives more than 7.5Kmiles per annum. She has 150Kmiles on the SUV and she wants to drive it another 10 years. My uncle used to put over 300Kmiles on his cars. People in USA tell me that some of them commute 100 mile round-trips weekdays, 20Kmiles just for work. There are some in Canada who do the same. TFA also assumes power is generated from coal which may be likely in some places but certainly not where I live. The nearest coal-fired plant is about 200 miles away and deprecated. They also assume Leaf is “compact” and don’t consider 1 and 2-seaters.

    So, TFA is a fine example of garbage in garbage out, extremist style. ADL is known to accept payment from big business to whitewash their sins. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_D._Little#Controversy

    After reading TFA I expect Big Oil or the Big Four automakers paid them handsomely. It really is an atrocious smear of EVs.

  39. Grece went off at a tangent in response to “A welder could build a copy of all their carts in a week easily.”

    I was writing about a welder working for EMV to facilitate ramping up production, nothing illegal or offensive to anyone. Like Trump, Grece’s black heart overrules his common sense.

  40. Grece says:

    Additionally, here is a shower-thought Robert. Wouldn’t the complexity of said EV over ICE, decrease the reliability of said vehicle?

    Also, the TCO of said EV is still higher then any ICE built now and that gap won’t begin to change until at least the end of the next decade.

    http://www.adlittle.us/uploads/tx_extthoughtleadership/ADL_BEVs_vs_ICEVs_FINAL_November_292016.pdf

  41. Grece says:

    Concerning your comment Robert: http://mrpogson.com/2017/05/01/the-latest-info-on-electra-meccanica-solo/#comment-374910

    A welder could build a copy of all their carts in a week easily.

    LOl, that’s a lot like open-source and Linux software Robert. Imagine, a meager welder wanting to get in on the action and starts welding his own Solo frames and then another custom builds higher performing electric motors, etc..

    Why Jerry would flip his lid and sue everyone! Doing exactly the thing that you despise.

  42. Kurkosdr says:

    mandateWho do these car-makers think they are? Gods?

    No. They are corporations with an extremely profitable parts division that relies on the presence of an ICE to keep being profitable and a sizeable lobbying arm (either directly or indirect via politicized unions)

    Thank Goodness there are specialists like Tesla and Electra Meccanica whose major products are EVs.
    No Nissan, GM and BMW? They are doing a good job of transforming themselves for the post-ICE era, essentially using their profits from ICE to fund EV development, unlike companies like Chrysler that are stocking up on carbon credits. Also, EMV’s vehicles represent the kind of electric car that fossil fuel companies pointed at when they argued for the alleged necessity of the ICE: Non crash rated, non-rigid roof, golf-cart with doors, crap.

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