11 Quarters of Global Legacy PC Decline

“In the U.S., PC shipments totaled 14 million units in the second quarter of 2017, a 5.7 percent decline from the second quarter of 2016 (see Table 2). The U.S. market declined due to weak consumer PC demand. The business market has shown some consistent growth, while early indicators suggest that spending in the public sector was on track with normal seasonality as the second quarter is typically the peak PC procurement season. However, the education market was under pressure from strong Chromebook demand.
 
The Chromebook market has been growing much faster than the overall PC market. Gartner does not include Chromebook shipments within the overall PC market, but it is moderately impacting the PC market. Worldwide Chromebook shipments grew 38 percent in 2016, while the overall PC market declined 6 percent.”
 
See Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Declined 4.3 Percent in Second Quarter of 2017
So too declines Bill Gates’ vision of a copy of That Other OS on every desk. Unfortunately, Android/Linux has taken up the slack instead of GNU/Linux. I consider Android/Linux OK for smartphones and tablets but it’s just not very useful on desktops. GNU/Linux however is very good and it’s Free Software and $free too. I recommend folks use Debian GNU/Linux if they don’t like paying monopolistic prices.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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46 Responses to 11 Quarters of Global Legacy PC Decline

  1. Deaf Spy says:

    The user interface needs to be very very simple — hence Android.

    Which is actually a piss-poor clone of Apple’s iPhone.

    At least Linux beat Microsoft at their own game — a stupid user interface system for stupid people.

    What Linux, what stupid UI?

  2. ram says:

    Just think how stupid the average person is, and then remember half the population is stupider than them. The user interface needs to be very very simple — hence Android.
    At least Linux beat Microsoft at their own game — a stupid user interface system for stupid people.

  3. oiaohm says:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/3208076/windows/windows-10-is-no-longer-supported-on-this-pc-error-clover-trail-atom.html
    We are starting to see Windows 10 lose items that were supported. Funny this. Realy it the same as what use to happen with Windows CE.

  4. oiaohm says:

    it covered in Microsoft training for those setting up Enterprise systems needing to support legacy applications

    Yeah, ri-i-ight. And the pigs have wings. You are a wonder to behold, Fifi.
    Deaf Spy so you are a total idiot.

    The defect with Application Compatibility Database is simple you have to search it every single time you start an application. So at some point it gets long enough that you can not log into a domain without it timing out due to all the delays caused. So of course it covered in a enterprise training course covering supporting legacy applications. You keep on putting entries into the database it will break the system.

    The reality is the Windows solution is highly limited. And pigs will fly before the current design of Application Compatibility Database does not have a fixed limit on how many applications you can put in it. The training covers how to delete entries out the Application Compatibility database to make room.

    General users can be entering chroots in Linux https://wiki.debian.org/Schroot

    Chroot method does not put a cost on every application you run like the windows method for shim and allow the same level of working around core library part incompatibilities. The snap and flatpak again only put a cost on those applications that are using containment.

    The reality is windows compatibility design has serous limits. The Linux distribution training default design for backward compatibility other than being a total administrator pain to set up and costly on hard-drive space scales quite well.

    Something to remember surveys of Linux users vs Windows users have Linux users using more applications on average reason for start menu broken down into categories. So a backwards compatibility solution for Linux has to be able to deal with a larger number of applications.

  5. Deaf Spy says:

    it covered in Microsoft training for those setting up Enterprise systems needing to support legacy applications

    Yeah, ri-i-ight. And the pigs have wings. You are a wonder to behold, Fifi.

  6. oiaohm says:

    This has a fixed size before it starts effecting performance badly.

    Bullshit, Fifi. As usual.
    Deaf Spy funny it covered in Microsoft training for those setting up Enterprise systems needing to support legacy applications. So not bullshit just you clueless.

    I’m asserting that Ubuntu 16.04 (or the Debian spin-up behind it) is good for two years and no more, because the only promise on backward compatibility is that anything older than two years will quite possibly break
    Using chroot is written in the Ubuntu 16.04 adminstrators manual just like Debian. For backwards compatibility.

    DrLoser so this is a case where you have not read the manual. Backwards compatibility is promised only if you us a chroot.

    https://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/training
    Its covered in the Ubuntu basic administrators course that you have not done Dr Loser.

    Yes the formal manual you only get if you do the courses list what is exactly promised.

    which is compatible, in the sense of breakage and lossage, with every single LTS you care to mention (outside possibly Red Hat, who put actual dollars and expertise into this stuff).
    Redhat training also has you using chroot for backwards compatibility.

    Basically DrLoser go do a proper Linux distribution course and see that a particular chroot method is the recommend backwards compatibility solution by Linux distributions.

    So the promise is current release of the distribution and any prior releases distribution running in chroot with about 95 percent application support. The stuff that breaks depends on stuff changed in kernel or X11 and then the courses cover different work around.

    That is what you are taught when you become formally trained Linux administrator.

    Basically you have had a bullshit augment for years because you have never done the training. The correct arguement is the interface on the Linux backwards compatibility used by distributions suxs and is very disc space consuming.

  7. DrLoser says:

    Something is starting to smell fishy here.

    Its just you Peter.

    Do not insult fish, Grece. Fish, in one way or another, contribute both to the ecology and the economy of the Earth.

    Fifi contributes to an imaginary pile of manure, but not much else.

  8. DrLoser says:

    Its spinning up chroots of prior versions. Ubuntu 16.04 has also a solemn promise that you can spin up a chroot contain the runtime of the prior versions and it will work and this is also true for Debian.

    “Its” being some new nitwit thing called, apparently, piuparts.

    Wow, Fifi, just wow. Your frontal lobes are falling apart even as we speak.

    I’m asserting that Ubuntu 16.04 (or the Debian spin-up behind it) is good for two years and no more, because the only promise on backward compatibility is that anything older than two years will quite possibly break … which is compatible, in the sense of breakage and lossage, with every single LTS you care to mention (outside possibly Red Hat, who put actual dollars and expertise into this stuff).

    And you come up with a Wizard of Oz curtain, behind which lies (as always) chroot?

    You really are a special little child, aren’t you, Peter Dolding?

    Watch out for those Cosmic Rays!

  9. Grece says:

    Something is starting to smell fishy here.

    Its just you Peter.

  10. Deaf Spy says:

    This has a fixed size before it starts effecting performance badly.

    Bullshit, Fifi. As usual.

  11. oiaohm says:

    Now most people don’t look under the hood of Microsoft backward compatibility.

    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb432182(v=vs.85).aspx
    We start off with the Application Compatibility Database. This has a fixed size before it starts effecting performance badly. So this means Microsoft regularly adds and removes applications from it. So that application that worked perfectly fine until you got a windows update sometimes that is because that was a Application Compatibility Database update deleting the application you use. What did Microsoft do where they had case too large for the Application Compatibility Database.
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx%3Fid=8002
    Yes the answer is Windows 7 “Windows XP Mode ” what is run Windows XP in a virtual machine.

    Something is starting to smell fishy here. Running an chroot of debian based on a snapshot is running old libraries right. Due to windows applications bundling with most of their runtime you are also running old libraries.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/clean-up-the-winsxs-folder
    Now some will point to SXS now anyone who has run the clean-up procedure documented by Microsoft has at times been on the receiving end of applications that don’t run any more.

    If Microsoft way is broken from function and security point of view. Chroot promise is too hard to use what is the correct path. Maybe what snap and flatpak are doing. We will have to wait and see.

    Most people don’t consider that Linux distributions have had perfect binary backward compatibility just in a horible to use way. Microsoft application database solution has not been perfect and bad enough that Microsoft has been forced to recommend virtual machines at times and giving end user rude shocks when application they need magically fails after an update.

  12. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser I can show you there are a few other promises that are simple to show on debian that are easy to miss does also exist in ubuntu.
    https://piuparts.debian.org/
    Ubuntu 16.04 is a solemn promise that not a single application before 16.04 is guaranteed to work.
    This is slightly wrong. piuparts is not spinning up virtual machines.
    https://wiki.debian.org/piuparts
    Its spinning up chroots of prior versions. Ubuntu 16.04 has also a solemn promise that you can spin up a chroot contain the runtime of the prior versions and it will work and this is also true for Debian.

    Debian goes the step further. http://snapshot.debian.org/ so you can install in a chroot or vm or container as per any date in time. So this is insanely complete backwards compatibility with the world worst interface.

  13. oiaohm says:

    Fifi, your reading comprehension issues are plaguing you. From your very own source: mainstream support ends in 2018, good six years after the release. Extended supports ends in 2023, eleven years later.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT Please go back and read this time.

    Deaf Spy there is no extended support on RT providing updates. Read the Discontinuation bit. Then two important dates October 26, 2012 release and final update September 15, 2015 and that is update 3. RT was meant to get yearly updates for 5 years got years updates for 3 years then discontinued.

    This is not a new stunt either you would see Windows CE with 10 years of support when reality it was 3 years and then Microsoft does nothing just does not delete the documentation how to work around the bugs from their servers for 10 years and if you have paid for support their personal will walk you through doing those work around.

    Google has been more up front about how long they are really supporting the portable hardware. The 36 months google gives is based on the real support Microsoft gives in the embedded space not Microsoft highly miss leading paperwork.

  14. DrLoser says:

    What a shit pile. You get 9-months, and maybe a smidgen of a few years if your good. On top of that, there is no backwards compatibility.

    That is most unfair, Grece. Of course there is backwards compatibility.

    That’s actually the whole point of a desktop Linux LTS. To take an example: Ubuntu 16.04 is a solemn promise that not a single application before 16.04 is guaranteed to work.

    And, equally, it is a solemn promise that not a single application built under 16.04 is guaranteed to work after 18.04.

    You can’t fault these guys for consistency, can you, Grece?

  15. DrLoser says:

    I don’t wish to take unfair advantage of your sludge-like senile thinking when it comes to your second cite from That Exploit Guy, however, Robert. Perhaps even a fossilised old brain like yours can “multi-task.”

    So, in the optimistic hope that you can do that, may I suggest that you look up the concept of “warranty periods?”

    Because after you are done with toasting your mental nuts in an effort to join the dots between your nitwit assertion and the cite you dragged up from me in 2012 — mentioning the number three, but nothing else relevant at all — well, then, my pitiful tiny-brained farcical cheapskate imbecile.

    You are going to have to explain your even more idiotic cite of That Exploit Guy.

  16. DrLoser says:

    Bobbie: STR that advocates of Wintel here were advising upgrading the hardware every three years like clockwork so M$’s “slowing down” would not matter

    Me: Ah, that sad period of life when you slide gently down the razor-blade of senility, memory loss, and loss of all rational functions.

    I don’t want to over-tax what few functional sparking neurons you have left, Bobbie. We can leave your cite of That Exploit Guy until you have finished digging yourself into a hole on this one, can’t we?

    Now then, Pudding-For-Brains, I am going to ask you for evidence that I advocated a process whereby the hardware “should be upgraded like clockwork every three years.”

    (Your specious nitwittery about M$ “slowing down” does not enter into this discussion, although it remains specious. We can discuss just how specious — I venture to say demented and completely beside whatever point you were trying, however feebly, to make — at some later date, Bobbie.)

    Let us begin, Bobbie. And remember that you have just stacked up a fairly long list of failing assertions and very questionable evidence before you even get past this first step.

    Where, precisely, in this cite, did I ever suggest that it is somehow “imperative” to throw hardware away every three years and replace it?

    I did no such thing, you wretched little man.

  17. Grece says:

    Check out Ubuntu: https://www.ubuntu.com/info/release-end-of-life

    What a shit pile. You get 9-months, and maybe a smidgen of a few years if your good. On top of that, there is no backwards compatibility.

    But hey, its all good. CHUCKLE.

  18. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, your reading comprehension issues are plaguing you. From your very own source: mainstream support ends in 2018, good six years after the release. Extended supports ends in 2023, eleven years later.

  19. oiaohm says:

    Anyway… Microsoft was slow to update a 15-year old OS (compared to Google that doesn’t care about updating the OS of their own devices the moment they become 36 months old), and you just listed a ton of caveats about the Nexus 5 and unofficial nougat support which backs up my point.
    Lets for get Windows RT.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
    Yes Microsoft in embed also only supports for 36 months.

    Kurkosdr so get your fact in order and try again. Again you might call it a brain dump reality you had your facts wrong and you still do. Windows RT devices not supported after 36 months has Microsoft branding on them as well.

    So the one who set the 36 months support standard on phones is none other than Microsoft with Windows CE. Google with Android is just sticking to the standard Microsoft setup.

  20. DrLoser says:

    While you are struggling to -tie your own shoe-laces- explain how your cite of That Exploit Guy somehow supports your silly little claim, Bobbie, why don’t we spend a little time considering your other cite? You know. The one that directly links to one of my comments on the LiMux fiasco.

    Let me refresh your degenerate memory.

    Munich is well-off?

    Well, maybe. But let’s have a little bet here. I expect a future (non-SDP, who’d a thought that Muenchen would be run by the SDP?) city government to reach a deal with Microsoft and spend a similar amount of time reverting the system to Windows. They could take half as long as the original migration and it would only take five years.

    I was a little wrong there, wasn’t I?

    Apparently the new mayor is also from the SPD. Bad guess on my part. And apparently Munich has plans to ditch that wretched rubbish by 2020 or so.

    Goodness knows why I was such a fool as to assume that it would take five whole years.

    (I Didn’t bring this refreshing proof that you have as usual spent several years of your life living a lie down on your head, Bobbie. You did.)

  21. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser wrote, “your memory recall is obviously all but worthless”.

    It’s not that bad yet… Search is a wonderful thing in IT:

    I’m going to take pity on you, Robert. You can go ahead. Explain, please, how either of those cites backs up your little senile brain-fart. Neither one does, I think.

    I’ll give you forty eight hours, you fat old fraud. Take a nap. Swig some cocoa. Do anything at all to get your decrepit failing grey cells into some sort of order.

    You won’t be able to back up your claim on either of these cites, but I want to give you the chance.

  22. Kurkosdr says:

    Wow! That’s one of the worst cases of ohioham verbal diarrhea we ever had.

    Anyway… Microsoft was slow to update a 15-year old OS (compared to Google that doesn’t care about updating the OS of their own devices the moment they become 36 months old), and you just listed a ton of caveats about the Nexus 5 and unofficial nougat support which backs up my point.

    See how you can express yourself in a consice way if you opt to think before starting to write your post, instead of essentially typing out a brain core dump with minutiae nobody cares about?

  23. oiaohm says:

    Grece no single party can afford to have access to all the different hardware to having it in a Quality Assurancesystem to know if alterations they are making to their OS kernel cores is right wrong or indifferent.

    Even with all Microsoft billions they cannot afford to have a set-up large enough to test all the different combinations. Its like the person recently who tried windows 10 on a 48 thread machine and found out the complete OS was stalling massively tested with windows server and hello same problem.
    https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/24-core-cpu-and-i-cant-move-my-mouse/
    So there are hardware combinations Microsoft has never tested. There are also cases where driver for x card under windows is not testing if X card is with Y cpu. Linux and Android there are never tested or under tested combinations.

    Next is Quality Assurance against already deployment operations. This is another level of nightmare.

    Grece
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room
    Elephant in the room is a old saying.

    The reality here is no OS has really perfectly address the problem of how to quality control with the diverse range of hardware we attempt to use.

    Grece you said no one is interested in what I say. So why in hell are you asking me questions??? Right you are idiot only answered you because it was a excuse for typing prac.

  24. Grece says:

    There is a Quality Assurance elephant no one has really addressed. The Quality Assurance elephant is also what makes vendors who do push out updates to Android delayed at lot and Microsoft sweeping a few known defects under the rug and hope that no one finds them.

    Whats this elephant you speakth?

  25. oiaohm says:

    Kurkosdr you have to remember the recent lot of XP updates to deal with warcry was because Microsoft was asked if they had been informed of the fault that thing depend on while XP was still officially supported. The answer was yes so they were legally forced to release patches.

    Again, thanks Microsoft for letting us pay for your OS instead of giving it out for “free”.
    So no this arguement is partly false. Microsoft is not known for 100 percent timely updates. If you look at debian stable you see the same problem. There is a Quality Assurance elephant no one has really addressed. The Quality Assurance elephant is also what makes vendors who do push out updates to Android delayed at lot and Microsoft sweeping a few known defects under the rug and hope that no one finds them.

    The fix to warcry was disable SMB1 this could break customers means to access NAS and other items locked on SMB1. So it was simpler to sweep under rug and pray.

    …and opening themselves up to all kinds of issues. These unofficial ROM backers are shoving an Android version that is built with the assumption of Vulkan into a device that doesn’t have it, plus whatever other small breakages you might get from old Marshmallow drivers forced to work with newer Android API versions.
    Nexus 5 is not a good example because this here by you is a stack of assumptions that don’t line up when you are talking about a Nexus 5. Adreno 330 gpu is inside Nexus5.

    https://mesamatrix.net/ The Adreno 330 is freedreno driver compatible. And freedreno driver stack does in fact provide Vulkan. So the closed source driver for the Adreno 330 is opengl only but the open source for the Adreno 330 is opengl and vulkan.

    The Soc chip in the Nexus 5 turned out to be largely supportable with open source drivers. Of course when you look at the mesamatrix just for opengl you will notice that its lacking a few features. The closed source driver for same gpu is also lacking more opengl features but more performance optimised.

    The fact a proper set of drivers exist ok with some performance issues that need work in open source says that yes a Nexus 5 can be updated to latest but vendors choose not to because of must use closed source drivers. Question does Qualcomm mandate the closed source drivers for patent coverage?

    So the Nexus 5 has deeper questions since the hardware it self is Nougat spec compatible as long as you don’t restrict your driver sources.

    As I said in this case the Nexus 5 is not a good example for the points you are attempting to make Kurkosdr. Nexus 5 is a case against closed source driver usage. If Nexus 5 was a windows phone it could run into the same problem of vendor not releasing driver for new version of windows forcing hardware replacement and you would not have the open source drivers to keep it going.

    There are other android devices you could have chosen where the issue is like what you describe where to support newer android they are wrapping old closed source without open source replacement option. Again this is still a case against closed source drivers.

    Really it would be good if each vendor provided a test reference boards to the main project and worked open source so that each kernel change… could be automatically checked on all the hardware. Early detection of reduces cost of repair. Why if something gets design into a kernel structure that is incompatible then you have to redesign your driver if you wait until after kernel development is complete. Now if you report while in development that X breaks your driver the structure might be changeable so saving you resources.

    This problem of hardware platform support being too far way from bleeding edge has effected operating systems for over 30 years.

    Lot of ways Android is more showing publicly what has been happening in background with Windows for a long time.

    Windows Insider
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_devices/windows-10-insider-preview-162151000-update-broke/52693e18-7ca9-43b6-813c-8ed34511b4ad
    Yes you see it suffering from all the same faults Android phones are. So the ASOP release of android is like the Windows Insider release that stuff does get delayed under vendors catch up.

    So Windows and Android development workflows are a lot closer in defectiveness than a lot of people would think. Both have the elephant in the room of how to do Quality Assurance cost effectively. Both have the elephant in the room that after some OS updates some hardware may never work again.

  26. DrLoser wrote, “your memory recall is obviously all but worthless”.

    It’s not that bad yet… Search is a wonderful thing in IT:

  27. DrLoser says:

    ISTR that advocates of Wintel here were advising upgrading the hardware every three years like clockwork so M$’s “slowing down” would not matter

    Ah, that sad period of life when you slide gently down the razor-blade of senility, memory loss, and loss of all rational functions. Still, look on the bright side, Robert — your memory recall is obviously all but worthless, but at least you are not sitting in your electric tricycle, pooping into incontinence diapers. (And even on your numbers, you won’t be until 2021.)

    You “seem to recall” this, do you, Robert? Quick — what’s the name of the current Canadian Prime Minister? Oh, and since your recall is abject, why don’t you just use Beast’s recall?

    It shouldn’t be too difficult to lift a cite or two, even given the knackers-yard level of hardware you presently rely upon. After all, YSTR … so we must have said it, right?

    Perish the thought that you are simply emulating little Fifi and lying at will.

  28. Kurkosdr says:

    ISTR that advocates of Wintel here were advising upgrading the hardware every three years like clockwork so M$’s “slowing down” would not matter…

    A requirement which ended ever since Windows 7 was as fast as it’s predecessor if not faster. Which means that any system from that was good enough for Vista is good enough for 7, 8 and 10.

    Meanwhile, you can revisit the list of obsoleted perfectly functional Google hardware I posted some comments ago. Brave new open-source world indeed.

  29. Deaf Spy says:

    M$’s “slowing down” would not matter

    What are you talking about Robert? But hey, you’ve never used Windows since XP, meaning you are talking bullshit.

  30. Deaf Spy wrote, ” Thanks to Microsoft, people are not required to upgrade their computers too often last decade or so.”

    ISTR that advocates of Wintel here were advising upgrading the hardware every three years like clockwork so M$’s “slowing down” would not matter… as long as people bought new hardware from Intel and paid M$ for permission to use it…

  31. Kurkosdr says:

    Kurkosdr nexus 5 is not the ideal example. As due to be a unlocked one people are porting newer android back to it without official support. There are many other examples where the boot loader is locked where people do have 100 percent stuffed hardware to upgrade.

    …and opening themselves up to all kinds of issues. These unofficial ROM backers are shoving an Android version that is built with the assumption of Vulkan into a device that doesn’t have it, plus whatever other small breakages you might get from old Marshmallow drivers forced to work with newer Android API versions. This is the “brave” in “brave new open-source” I was talking about. Either pay up for a new device or deal with unofficial ROMs and their issues.

    Who thought that the good ol’ “Linux is free only of your time is worthless” motto we had over at LHB would be turned into a business model by Google? And a particularly profitable one? How much does Google charge for that slightly upgraded HTC 10 they sell, which you have to buy if you want to receive upgrades that are timely, tested and well-integrated again?

    Again, thanks Microsoft for letting us pay for your OS instead of giving it out for “free”.

  32. Deaf Spy says:

    Unlike every operating system from Google’s chocolate factory… You see, Google always finds some excuse to obsolete existing hardware and stop giving it software upgrades (and updates)

    See Robert? Thanks to Microsoft, people are not required to upgrade their computers too often last decade or so. At the same time, Android (should I add /Linux) is a threadmill for buying new hardware.

    Nice, eh?

  33. oiaohm says:

    https://www.slashgear.com/nexus-5-gets-a-taste-of-nougat-via-unofficial-android-7-rom-19456522/

    Kurkosdr nexus 5 is not the ideal example. As due to be a unlocked one people are porting newer android back to it without official support. There are many other examples where the boot loader is locked where people do have 100 percent stuffed hardware to upgrade.

  34. oiaohm says:

    Grece United Arab Emirates was the paper I was pointing to.

    I said it been governments who have been doing rapid turn overs of hardware.

    Government’s don’t “rapidly change” anything you moron! This is why you still see Window XP being used and managed by Microsoft, the U.S. Navy being one.
    Did I say it was a government of a county who is basically bankrupt????

    There are quite big contracts disappearing.

    Governments moving to Linux? Hahaha….what numbers are you quoting o-lame one?

    Once again, you link something totally irrelevant to the discussion.
    Sorry read again look at the region I took that paper from. Note how over funded those governments have been and how wasteful they have been on IT budgets. So quite a few Microsoft prised customers have disappeared in the past few years. Part due to what was done in the gulf war.

  35. Kurkosdr says:

    Not only almost all households and enterprises have PCs nowadays. They even don’t need to upgrade so often, because software doesn’t require new hardware.

    Unlike every operating system from Google’s chocolate factory… You see, Google always finds some excuse to obsolete existing hardware and stop giving it software upgrades (and updates).

    -“Your smartphone needs Vuuuulkan so it can run the latest 3D benchmarks, your Nexus 5 won’t get Nougat”. The upside to that is that I managed to score a “new” Nexus 5 on eBay (that means “excellent condition refurbished” for those of who don’t speak eBay-ese) for £120 a couple of months after that announcement, which is a bargain because it still a very good phone. But I guess it sucks a lot for those people who paid full price.

    -“Your old Chromebook cannot run Android apps, buy a new one so we can catch our 38% increase in shipments target”.

    -“Your GoogleTV is old news, buy a Nexus Player, and btw we will yank out the YouTube for GoogleTV app and replace it with a link to a flash site that tops out at 360p”. The fortunate thing about that is that I managed to pick up an old Sony GoogleTV box for £30 pounds to use as a 3D photo viewer (surprisingly how few 3D-enabled TVs can show 3D photos)

    -Your Nest thermostat…”

    -“Your Motorola Xoom…” (Had a friend who bought one full price)

    -“Your Galaxy Nexus…”

    You get the idea. I personally am frightened about the cost of software in this brave new open-source world. For example, the Pixel phones will soon be the only phones getting timely updates, and we all know what they sell for. So, thank you Microsoft for letting us pay…

    If you think something is expensive because it costs money, just wait and see how expensive it gets when it becomes “free”.

  36. Grece says:

    Remember its been governments who have for a long time rapidly changed over their hardware. So governments moving to Linux hurt the numbers quite a bit.

    Government’s don’t “rapidly change” anything you moron! This is why you still see Window XP being used and managed by Microsoft, the U.S. Navy being one.

    Governments moving to Linux? Hahaha….what numbers are you quoting o-lame one?

  37. Grece says:

    Peter, again, no one here cares what you have to say.

    The paper you link, says nothing about deployments or current usage. I quote, “. In this paper, we shall look at some of the configurations available in Linux platform that allows it to avoid and mitigate many of these common attacks which are considered to be the main cause of many security breaches. ”

    Once again, you link something totally irrelevant to the discussion.

  38. oiaohm says:

    Remember its been governments who have for a long time rapidly changed over their hardware. So governments moving to Linux hurt the numbers quite a bit.

  39. oiaohm says:

    http://www.ijcaonline.org/archives/volume164/number3/afifi-2017-ijca-913597.pdf

    Deaf Spy no one uses Linux desktop its about time you pull you head out your limited space. Some of the decline is places switching to Linux and extending life.

  40. Deaf Spy says:

    Greece is very, very right that market is saturated. Not only almost all households and enterprises have PCs nowadays. They even don’t need to upgrade so often, because software doesn’t require new hardware. Windows 10 works prettily on any dual core CPU with 4 GBs RAM, which is so low end nowadays. Games and some professionals are the exception, but CRM software works basically on anything that just boots out there. And, of course, no one uses Linux on desktop.

  41. Deaf Spy says:

    Android … but it’s just not very useful on desktops

    Says the guy who was preaching some months ago that people plug keyboards and TVs to Android devices and enjoy a desktop-like experience. Perhaps you start to see the light, Robert?

    Btw, I do regularly plug a 24″ monitor, a keyboard and a mouse to my Lumia 950 and do you know what, Robert? It actually works. Thanks to UWP, it actually works and is very useful for a light desktop, where one needs simple Office, mails and fully-fledged browsing without flash. I even watch Netflix on this.

  42. Grece says:

    Gartner Says Worldwide PC Shipments Declined 4.3 Percent in Second Quarter of 2017

    So let’s get this straight, you read this as the decline of the PC and a possible decline of Windows, so you trumpet the whole GNU/Linux, get Debian as it is free notion?

    I’m sorry Robert, but in all honesty, this just means the computer market is saturated, as you can only shove so many marbles in a glass jar. There is no correlation to PC market – Windows – Linux uptick, none what so ever. Unless, you have some magical graph that shows a .05% increase in say Tenerife.

  43. Grece says:

    So too declines Bill Gates’ vision of a copy of That Other OS on every desk.

    Declines Robert?

    I think his vision has been met completely, as at the turn of the century, Windows OS was THE go to computer software of the day. When will your Debian, boast such a achievement?

  44. Grece says:

    Hey Robert, did you ever get TLW a Chromebook, or are you still cramming Linux telnet/SHH/RDP thin-client gobbledygook on her?

  45. wizard emiritus says:

    “GNU/Linux however is very good and it’s Free Software and $free too.”

    Translation: Robert Pogson Cheapskate loves his $free ride more than any inconveniences that the software might have.

    Fortunately the rest of the world can take whatever FOSS that is actually useful and run it on top of windows and leave the Linux desktop kludge in the garbage where it belongs.

  46. Agent_Smith says:

    I recommend Devuan, which is FREE of that kludge that is systemd.
    Sadly, Linux became the monster it once stood against: Corporate interests against the interests of the users.
    Now, it’s no longer GNU/Linux, but Red Rat / Lennix.

    Well, well.

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