Electra Meccanica Vehicles Delivers

“Our Canadian production facility has completed and delivered our first customer car, with the next 4 (chassis 10-14) all lined up in various stages of completion. We should deliver the next SOLO the first week of July, and then between 2 and 10 per month from then on.”
 
See From the Desk of Jerry Kroll
July 2, 2017
Well, it’s still not certain when I will receive my Solo EV but Electra Meccanica Vehicles has started down the path to delivery. They claim 536 Solos on their list of reservations. At 10 per month, it’s not happening in 2018, but other means of production will commence shortly. I hope. Who knows whether I will live to 2022? Who knows whether other competitors will flood the market before then? EMV and I are both motivated to deliver and to receive a Solo as soon as possible. I vote for sooner.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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30 Responses to Electra Meccanica Vehicles Delivers

  1. The Wiz wrote, “Robert Pogson is never going to give up on the EM Solo unless he is faced with the company’s demise before his number comes up.”

    Correct. That won’t happen if the customers are happy with the product. EMV is giving us what we want, eventually.

  2. wizard emiritus says:

    Sitting back and watching Robert Pogsons Verbal gymnastics brings to mind the caption on the poster in agent Mulders office on the X files…

    I Want to Believe

    In Robert Pogsons case, all his concerns come down to the low cost of the Electro Mechainca product, coupled with the kind of design (apparently using a high amount of COTS parts) the appears to be maintainable without having to pay the manufacturer for maintenance.

    Robert Pogson is never going to give up on the EM Solo unless he is faced with the company’s demise before his number comes up.

  3. DrLoser says:

    The same scale-factors that give Solo lower air-drag give it greater strength. The strength of a form varies with the square of the dimensions.

    Er, Robert? No, it does not.. Go back and study structural engineering basics, and when you’ve done that, do pray tell us how you suddenly had an epiphany about cross-sections and so on. (Not to mention the difference between strength under tension and strength under compression.)

    To be fair, you would be broadly accurate if you were talking about a solid rectangular lump of timber.

    But you ain’t, is yah?

  4. Grece says:

    Nope??

    LOL…one can easily file suit in small claims for a multitude of reasons.

  5. Kurkosdr says:

    I will assure you, the first person that is killed in one of these things, Electra Meccanica will be shutdown and sued for negligence.

    Nope, they are technically selling a tricycle so they are legally off the hook. This is how the term “electric vehicle” came to exist, many electric vehicles such as the Reva GWiz crapbox or the ZAP Xebra trike are not safe enough to classify as cars. It seems hard to imagine now, but 10 years ago the electric vehicle market was full of snake oil salesmen selling glorified golf carts and horrible little tricycles to idiots. The Solo EV is a throwback to that era with the difference it is not even mass produced but cobbled together in a custom bodyshop garage.

  6. Grece says:

    Robert making assumptions again eh?

    Carbon fiber composites have phenomenal tensile strength in the x-y axis but not much in the z axis, so it all depends on how it was manufactured The fibers are what give the material its tensile strength but have no rigidity. The resin matrix provides the rigidity that the fibers lack but it has very low tensile strength. When it comes to resisting impacts, the lack of z directional strength causes the layers to delaminate, weakening the overall strength of the material.

    Hence, this is why crash-testing is the ONLY way to test accident performance.

    I will assure you, the first person that is killed in one of these things, Electra Meccanica will be shutdown and sued for negligence.

  7. Kurkosdr wrote, “you are welcome to provide proof to substantiate that “more rigid frame” claim.”

    The same scale-factors that give Solo lower air-drag give it greater strength. The strength of a form varies with the square of the dimensions. Solo is roughly half the width of Leaf so Leaf is 4 times stronger for the given construction. Unfortunately, Leaf and Solo have quite different construction. Carbon fibre sandwich, however, is quite a bit stronger for its weight than sheet-metal stamping used to make many cars. Also, unfortunately, the force of impact varies as the mass so Leaf also has to deal with twice the force of impact reducing the advantage of Leaf dramatically. The mass of the object of collision does not matter at all. It is considered immovable. The energy of the Leaf comes to bear, three times that of Solo for the same speed. Ouch.

    An analogy, the strength of birds’ eggs: “Thus it seems that in large birds, strength may be a greater limiting factor in survival than in small birds, which may have eggs with a strength exceeding their body mass several times. Bird species with large eggs would be relatively more liable to egg breakage (caused by accidental stepping-on) than birds with small eggs.”

    So, much for K’s wild ideas about surviving crashes. What kills the occupant of a car in a collision is usually nothing to do with the other car but how the occupant collides with his own car. Solo and its occupant slow down gracefully together so that secondary collision is milder. In Leaf, the air-bags were supposed to avoid that problem but it doesn’t work if the car deforms to the point that the occupant slides between the air-bags and his head receives no support at all. Notice that Leaf’s engine up front provides much less crush distance than Solo’s front trunk. So, all that weight applied over a smaller distance means greater force of impact. Not good. Sad.

  8. Kurkosdr says:

    Cut the weight in three with Solo and he has a chance.
    You are aware that when colliding with another vehicle, the vehicle with the most mass has the advantage? And you were teaching kids… You are the living proof of why education should be privatized and the only thing the state should do is mandate joining an accredited high school, not run schools.

    This test, which is probably closest to frequent killing collisions shows the advantage of the smaller more rigid frame of Solo and it’s lower mass.

    More rigid frame? Than the Leaf? Do you have data to back this up, or you are a babbling bafoon as usual? Because a 18kg chassis cobbled together from low grade carbon fiber in Jerry’s garage sounds anything but rigid to me. There is no practical material that allows for a 18kg chassis rigid enough to pass crash tests. And the thing doesn’t even have to meet crash test rigidity standards at all. The Leaf has a chassis rigid enough to score 5 stars in Euro NOCAP. But anyway, you are welcome to provide proof to substantiate that “more rigid frame” claim.

    Also, no airbags and no roof rigidity whatsoever. That thing doesn’t pass crash safety minimum criteria to legally classify as a car, let alone score 5 stars in any crash test.

    Not that this cold hard facts will have any effect whatsoever in Pogworld inside Pogbrain.

  9. Grece wrote about systemd.

    Several of us told the world that systemd was a risky TOOS-like mess of spaghetti spilled on the floor but still the stampede towards the swamp continued.

  10. Grece says:

    Speaking about eating crow and being out of touch Robert.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/05/linux_systemd_grants_root_to_invalid_user_accounts/

    “To obtain root privileges on a Linux distribution that utilizes systemd for initialization, start with an invalid user name in the systemd.unit file.”

  11. DrLoser wrote, “There is no possible way that your esteemed and far superior wife would agree to that idiocy, Robert.”

    Chuckle. Let me tell a story disproving this point. Way back when we were married we departed from Winnipeg for our honeymoon in Saudi Arabia. We took different routes to the airport. She had last minute stuff to do with relatives and I, being a Pogson, did not want to be late. Would you believe her sister was caught speeding on the airport grounds trying to get TLW to the airport? So, I was on the plane as it pushed off and TLW was not! Fortunately, we had moved only a couple of metres when by the force of her will, the plane was towed back to station and TLW boarded, to much applause…

    To make a long story short, TLW is not shy about going her own way regardless of how DrLoser or I feel about anything in particular. She is strong-willed and when she decides something is right no one can convince her otherwise and she persists as long as it takes to wear down all obstacles. However, she has not been able to change me much except to allow me to age…

  12. DrLoser wrote, “Nissan is not a Ponzi scheme. EMV is ,,, well … I hate to break this to you but …”

    [SARCASM]It’s a very poor Ponzi scheme then, spending $millions to rake in $thousands.[/SARCASM]

    EMV is about designing and shipping a product whose time has come. It’s practical, efficient, and fun for the user. If they take good care of their Solo is will give them many years of service and save real money over gas-guzzlers and most other EVs. The concept is a little edgy but the technology employed is very mature, efficient and allowed EMV to get to market rather quickly in a modest way. Their present effort is not to flood the market with thousands of vehicles but to perfect the product and to prepare to flood the market. The guys who designed it are assembling it and handing it off to customers. That’s a sound feedback mechanism and will result in better production and quality. Once investors see the results or when EMV has sold enough units they will expand production rather easily. The margin is there. Revenue sufficient for a decent ramp-up so I can get my Solo in 2018 is quite possible based on the present deposits/reservations and the obvious ability of EMV to deliver a working product. Certainly there may be supply difficulties and the certification is still in the air apparently but these can all be overcome sooner rather than later and I will get my car. You can bet I will be quoting your comments repeatedly when that day comes. Prepare to “eat crow”.

  13. DrLoser says:

    You can scale data from Leaf for a narrower and lighter car and smaller battery to come to 160km range easily.

    You can indeed. If you choose to be a total imbecile.

    Your choice, Robert. Accept reality, or continue being a total imbecile.

    Clue-bat: Nissan is not a Ponzi scheme. EMV is ,,, well … I hate to break this to you but …

  14. Kurkosdr wrote, “even in that single case, the driver’s life will be saved.”
    Nope. Severe trauma to the head because the car could not absorb the impact in the crush zone. Cut the weight in three with Solo and he has a chance. This test, which is probably closest to frequent killing collisions shows the advantage of the smaller more rigid frame of Solo and it’s lower mass. With me driving at lower speed to maximize efficiency, Solo is safer.

  15. DrLoser says:

    Kurkosdr completely misses the possibility that if TLW and I wish to go to the same party/wedding/shopping place we could just as well use two Solos to cover that rare occurrence.

    There is no possible way that your esteemed and far superior wife would agree to that idiocy, Robert. Even if it were possible to acquire two of the … things … at the same time.

    Grow up. Get a grip. Get real.

  16. Kurkosdr says:

    I’ll take my chance on a possibly good Solo compared to a known bad Leaf.

    First of all, the Leaf got 5 stars in the Euro NCAP. Euro NCAP doesn’t give 5 stars to “bad” vehicles, but I am sure they should hire you so you can show them how crash testing works. Even the link you provided shows that the Leaf scored well in most tests save for that single case of small overlap. And even in that single case, the driver’s life will be saved.

    Are you seriously comparing the Leaf, a proper car (in the legal and technical sense) to the electric big wheel cobbled together in Jerry’s garage which doesn’t even classify as a car?

    Here is the chassis of the Solo btw:
    http://www.design-engineering.com/features/solo-peoples-ev/
    “Built largely from carbon fiber composite, the Solo’s chassis weighs just under 40 lbs.”

    A 18kg chassis built out of carbon fibre (not the body, the chassis) and a roof made out plastic. And you want to drive this thing on normal roads using a loophole about tricycles (that lawmakers should have been smart enough to patch but they don’t), normal roads where other vehicles could crash on to you. What could possibly go wrong?

    You are out of touch with reality senile old man. You are out of touch about the utility of the vehicle (you apparently have the illusion your wife will buy a Solo, instead of you ending up piggybacking in her SUV), you are out of touch about the safety of the vehicle, you are out of touch about when you will get one (if ever). Stop the mental contortions to justify your original poor decision and ask for a refund. Even if you don’t buy a Leaf, at least you won’t torture your mind trying to justify your original poor decision and as a result you will avoid getting one step closer to dementia.

  17. Kurkosdr wrote, of Leaf, “It’s crash-rated and will save your life if someone crashes onto you.”

    Well, it gets a poor rating for frontal small-overlap collision test. Driver’s air-bag did nothing and his legs were crushed. Sad. The weight just made the collision worse. I’ll take my chance on a possibly good Solo compared to a known bad Leaf.

  18. Kurkosdr wrote, “Safety adds weight.”

    Not much, if you consider a parachute as a safety-measure. Much of the weight of Leaf is the 24kWh battery instead of 16.1kWh of Solo and a much more complex/heavy/expensive drivetrain. I don’t need all that complexity and cost. I don’t want to pay twice to move myself from A to B.

  19. Kurkosdr wrote, “If you have no problem with the extra energy your relatively large home pulls compared to a small apartment, then the difference between the Leaf and the Solo is negligible.”

    The Solo will use less than half the energy our home consumes. We use geothermal heat so our bill is less than many small electrically-heated apartments.

    Kurkosdr completely misses the possibility that if TLW and I wish to go to the same party/wedding/shopping place we could just as well use two Solos to cover that rare occurrence. Two Solos would use much less energy than one Lexus. Two Solos would use about the same energy as one Leaf.

  20. Kurkosdr says:

    Solo is just about perfect and Leaf is not
    You are talking as if the Solo is an option for you for the next 4 years. Anyway, let’s examine that particular claim:

    It’s heavy.
    It’s crash-rated and will save your life if someone crashes onto you. Safety adds weight.

    It’s big.
    It actually carries two people which would allow you to go to dinner out with your wife using it. Increased capacity adds volume. But if course, when you and your wife need to go somewhere together, I am sure you will piggyback on her vehicle (every single time) because that’s how you like to roll in life.

    Also, the Leaf is crash-rated and will save your life if someone crashes onto you. Safety adds volume.

    It uses much more energy per km than Solo. So, it’s not going to arrive here unless TLW buys it so she can maintain her wasteful lifestyle.
    Sayeth the person who lives in a relatively large home that pulls in much more energy to heat than a small apartment. If you have no problem with the extra energy your relatively large home pulls compared to a small apartment, then the difference between the Leaf and the Solo is negligible.

    Ten years ago, I recommended the upcoming Leaf to her and she rejected that for the SUV we have.
    Which means that not buying the Leaf will result in the two of you having to use your wife’s SUV every time you have to go somewhere together. Or you can buy a Leaf for yourself and reduce the number of times you will have to use your wife’s SUV. And you won’t have to piggyback on her SUV for your common commutes every single time.

    The Solo is an oddball vehicle for oddball people who don’t want to be able to carry another person on board (but prefer to piggyback on other people’s vehicles every time) and who do not want a crash-rated vehicle. On the other hand, your wife’s choice, while wasteful, is much less oddball, which means that is also probably much more of a normal person.

  21. Kurkosdr wrote, “Do you need any more reality rubbed on your face to cancel the preorder and buy a used Leaf?”

    Isn’t going to happen. For my purposes, Solo is just about perfect and Leaf is not. It’s heavy. It’s big. It uses much more energy per km than Solo. So, it’s not going to arrive here unless TLW buys it so she can maintain her wasteful lifestyle. Ten years ago, I recommended the upcoming Leaf to her and she rejected that for the SUV we have.

  22. DrLoser wrote, “EMV plans to start deliveries to USA about October. Aren’t spreadsheets wonderful? Eventually, Robert, the virtuous abstraction called “planning” hits the brick wall called “reality.””

    There’s already a dealership in Kansas City MO waiting for delivery. Others are lined up along the west coast of USA.

    He also drivelled, “It’s quoted at 160 km, and we can assume that this figure is about as accurate as any number quoted by a manufacturer. Which means you can probably subtract 20% from it, leaving a still adequate 130 km or so. Except in the winter, when the primitive battery tech is going to knock another 40% or so off that, leaving you with a range of 80 km.”

    You can scale data from Leaf for a narrower and lighter car and smaller battery to come to 160km range easily. I expect at city speeds it could reach 200km. You could argue that EMV may be lying about the capacity of their battery but the 16.1kWh is designed to achieve 160km reliably and to pass a threshold for subsidy in Ontario, so I think we can count on that. Eventually, a test-driver will take eyes off the road long enough to read that km/kWh output on the screen…

  23. DrLoser says:

    News to me:

    News to everybody, really, but not particularly exciting news. And in some cases, not particularly realistic. Let’s plod through your points:

    Greens & Beans Deli is using Solo for deliveries. The owners love it. Hardly news. Early adopters are like this. Let’s see what they think two years down the road. (I’m not being unfair — this is a reasonable question.)

    EMV plans to start deliveries to USA about October. Aren’t spreadsheets wonderful? Eventually, Robert, the virtuous abstraction called “planning” hits the brick wall called “reality.”

    EMV plans to ramp up production to ~4K in 2018. See previous comment. You want to start a sweepstakes on this, Robert? Most of us, possibly all of us, doubt that they will manage more than 12*5 (5 being mid-range for 2-10) in 2018. Is sixty the new four thousand?

    There’s definitely no cruise-control. This is news to you? Dear God.

    They are working on full or partial autonomous driving next year. Well, it’s only taken the rest of the world-wide automotive industry about ten years to get half-way there, having spent half a trillion dollars in R&D. I’m sure your (entirely theoretical) $250 deposit will push EMV over that R&D hurdle in a week or a quarter or whatever.

    They will publish data on range/consumption per kWh or km. I think I, personally, would want this data up front. And I think I, personally, and Grece, personally, and Kurks, personally, can already provide you with a fairly accurate estimate, given that 95% of this horrid little … thing … is COTS.

    It’s quoted at 160 km, and we can assume that this figure is about as accurate as any number quoted by a manufacturer. Which means you can probably subtract 20% from it, leaving a still adequate 130 km or so. Except in the winter, when the primitive battery tech is going to knock another 40% or so off that, leaving you with a range of 80 km.

    Good enough for a couple of winter shopping trips within the boundaries of metro Winnipeg, but not much more.

    Of course, a sane move would be to buy an old beater for $1,000 or so, and to use your engineering skills to keep it on the road for the next few years. Wait until, say, 2020, and see what new tech is on the market.

    But sanity has never really been your guiding star, has it, Robert?

  24. Kurkosdr says:

    At 10 per month, it’s not happening in 2018, but other means of production will commence shortly.

    http://mrpogson.com/2017/05/01/the-latest-info-on-electra-meccanica-solo/#comment-374800
    Two months ago you said:
    “I’m quite confident that the sun will rise tomorrow and Solo will be mine in 2018.”

    Do you admit now that you were a babbling bafoon completely out of touch with reality, while we were constantly rubbing reality on your face (no Solo for you for at least 3.5 years) and trying to convince you to ask for a refund of the deposit while it’s still possible, and still trying to do this as of this day?

    And BTW the 10 cars per month is the optimistic scenario. The green text you quote clearly says 2-10 cars per month (translation: according to how parts supply goes).

    Do you need any more reality rubbed on your face to cancel the preorder and buy a used Leaf? Assuming you want an electric car off course.

  25. EMV had a Q&A session on FaceBook today. News to me:

    • Greens & Beans Deli is using Solo for deliveries. The owners love it.
    • EMV plans to start deliveries to USA about October.
    • EMV plans to ramp up production to ~4K in 2018.
    • There’s definitely no cruise-control. They are working on full or partial autonomous driving next year.
    • They will publish data on range/consumption per kWh or km.
    • Canada Transport National Safety Mark Number was unknown.

    I’m a little disappointed by the lack of cruise-control. I haven’t driven a car without cruise-control since the 1980s. I don’t recall my pickup having it either. I guess my foot can learn to function again… Apparently the news that certification was complete was inaccurate as EMV should have that number if they are allowed to ship Solo in Canada.

  26. Grece says:

    People are waiting up to two years for other precious cars.

    2011 Robert? You post a link from six years ago? LOL!

    Lets see this list:

    1. Tesla Roadster $98,000
    2. Koenigsegg CCX $550,000
    3. Rolls-Royce Phantom Drophead coupe $410,000
    4. Bentley Brooklands Coupe $340,000
    5. Mercedes-Benz CL65 AMG $194,000
    6. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 $310,000
    7. Ferrari F599 GTB Fiorano $265,000
    8. Ferrari F430 Scuderia $200,000
    9. Morgan Aeromax $190,000
    10. Aston Martin DBS $270,000

    My, you do not see any cheap vehicles in there do you? The people buying these vehicles are purchasing them for entertainment and weekend drives. They are not sitting at home, collecting a pension and living off their old lady.

  27. Grece wrote, “Only a fool would preorder a car, FIVE YEARS in advance Robert.”

    I don’t know about that. People are waiting up to two years for other precious cars. Five years certainly would be an outlier. That’s why I expect the company, EMV, to really crank up production in the coming months. A radical product like Solo follows a pattern: a few early adopters, a crush of “must haves”, a period of disillusionment, followed by more general acceptance. It’s about supply and demand, positive and negative feedback in the market, transient responses to stimuli… Historically, situations like this sometimes result in a market for the “spot in the line”. The “must-haves” will pay a premium to get a Solo. I don’t know whether a few hundred or a few thousand will inspire that kind of enthusiasm but Solo will certainly have a lot of fans. It fits a need better than other vehicles. It’s very efficient. It’s zero-emission. It’s cute. We shall see how it goes.

  28. Grece says:

    Only a fool would preorder a car, FIVE YEARS in advance Robert. That’s like preordering a computer five years down the road, which no one would do.

  29. Grece wrote, “in asking if you will live till 2022, conveys to me that you never did put down money to buy a vehicle, as in the year 2022 and at the constant rate of ten units per month, shows units #560 – 670 being shipped.”

    Nope. It means I might have made an error in mental arithmetic and/or I might have chosen a more conservative rate of production.

    I placed my order back in January. If their current list is indeed 536 Solos, I may have climbed the ladder to Heaven by folks dropping off. My number may indeed be lower than I was told back then. It’s all good. I’ll just have to wait like the others.

  30. Grece says:

    Who knows whether I will live to 2022?

    Doing a spreadsheet with Electra Meccanica running ten units per month, places unit #536 at Nov-Dec 2021.

    Robert, in asking if you will live till 2022, conveys to me that you never did put down money to buy a vehicle, as in the year 2022 and at the constant rate of ten units per month, shows units #560 – 670 being shipped. Electra Meccanica claims as you said, 536 orders. Where is your order?

    When were you planning on placing your deposit? Since you lied about it??

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