Solo EV Sighted In Toronto

Electra Meccanica mysteriously posted a picture of a gleaming white Solo parked at a hotel in Toronto, Canada. So, we have most sightings in Vancouver with a few in California, China, and now, one in Toronto.

I have confirmed such hotel exists but its parking is underground so Google street view does not show much. The vehicle has no front licence plate so it may have been towed there. I have no idea why it’s there or how it arrived.
Speculations:

  • It’s going on display nearby in a second Canadian city after Vancouver.
  • There could be some grand announcement imminent about certification or a first delivery to a customer (ISTR EMV said the first deliveries would be in Vancouver, though…).

I expect it’s the former situation, display at some event or high traffic area in Toronto. The Chelsea Hotel says “We commit to improving our everyday operations that coincide with strong environmental management practices with the maintenance of quality service and meeting our guest expectations. This will be achieved by minimizing energy, water consumption and waste production.” Perhaps they want to promote a made in Canada electric vehicle.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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34 Responses to Solo EV Sighted In Toronto

  1. oiaohm says:

    Kurkosdr really solo is a pure example of minimal parts.

    Whole body you mean the chassis. Flat panel construction. So place templates on flat sheet cut it out and solvent weld it into one piece. Not one bit of fancy bending or welding involved. So what the chassis is made from is generic part.

    Interior of Solo is almost what interior. I am serous the dash board is part of the chassis. Early concept drawing had a more complex dash but it has been simplified a lot. So most of the interior is carpet, foam and a stack of generic bits. In the interior what is not generic is basically the interior door panels.

    There is not a single gauge or button in the dash that is not a generic part in the solo.

    The most custom parts is in the outer shell.

  2. DrLoser says:

    EMV has the backing of InterMeccanica and the good will of hundreds if not thousands of people. There’s no problem raising money if they do run short. There’s no sign of that happening yet. They are preparing for an IPO which should ensure hundreds of Solos get built.

    That, of course, is what IPOs are designed to do. A small educational link here, Robert, which incidentally includes a Bit-Coin IPO just to keep Grece happy.

    As “ensuring that 100s of the world’s most uninteresting tricycles will be produced,” Robert, I think we will need to see more than a yet unachieved IPO.

  3. Kurkosdr wrote, “Greece = Grece (autocorrect)”

    Yes, I’ve been having trouble with Android’s autocorrection. I’m always having to “look back” instead of my normal “thinking forward” as I type… Sometimes I miss it. Perhaps he should go back to his old name…

  4. Kurkosdr wrote, “the whole body and interior is custom, with the exception of the tail lights maybe, and you think it contains mostly generic parts.”

    All the controls, steering gear, electrics, motor and drive controller, wheels, bearings, mirrors, windows, except glass are all generic. They have molds/jigs for making the chassis and body. That’s a quick process, easily replicated for increased production. I was involved once long ago in a project to build a sailboat. With no experience and just a blueprint, I was able to build the shell. With a form, it would have been trivial. The particular shape may have taken time, money and effort to create but replicating it does not. I’ve worked in factories where sheet-metal shapes were stamped out. This is a slower process but still plenty fast enough to make the labour just a tiny part of the whole cost of production.

    I’ve been dealing a bit with Chinese manufacturers. Almost without exception, they are only too glad to customize parts whether it’s something simple like logo or colour or major like a top to bottom new design. They’ve been doing such projects for ages. It’s not that difficult and Solo was designed from the start to be inexpensive to make or to own.

  5. Kurkosdr says:

    Yeah, right, the whole body and interior is custom, with the exception of the tail lights maybe, and you think it contains mostly generic parts.

  6. Kurkosdr says:

    Greece = Grece (autocorrect)

  7. Kurkosdr wrote, “Pog doesn’t even know if they have a viable assembly line (by “viable” I mean “has a steady supply of all the non-generic parts needed”), and that ElectraMeccanica is free to go bankrupt anytime they want.”

    We saw stacks of parts in the video of the tour of the factory. There are very few non-generic parts in the Solo. If they can make a few they can make many. Parts are cheap. Labour is expensive. So is real estate. EMV has plenty to go around. The only reason they are not producing ~1 a day now is that certification is incomplete. Certification has been going on for months now. It should soon be complete. EMV has the backing of InterMeccanica and the good will of hundreds if not thousands of people. There’s no problem raising money if they do run short. There’s no sign of that happening yet. They are preparing for an IPO which should ensure hundreds of Solos get built. It’s important to note that EMV will be flush with cash once Solos are being sold to the public, certainly enough to survive a few years. When that happens there should be no problem getting China to crank them out in bulk. That takes time but not much money, time to set up overseas, a bit of money to order parts by the container-load.

    Kurkosdr also wrote, “That Jerry has negotiated parts supply (aka mass produced parts supply) in order to feed his assembly line with enough parts to fulfill all orders at the promised price.”

    That’s not a requirement for EMV to take off. Even GMC doesn’t have all the cash needed to build all their cars for the next couple of years. To some extent they are all pay as you go. EMV doesn’t need a huge building or assembly line to take off. They have a big enough building to run for a year or more.

  8. Kurkosdr says:

    Grece wrote, “the vehicle taken to Toronto does not even function.”

    Facts not in evidence.

    Greece, don’t let Pog steer the conversation to how good or not the Solo EV is. Just focus on the fact that ElectraMeccanica got Pog’s money and Pog doesn’t even know if they have a viable assembly line (by “viable” I mean “has a steady supply of all the non-generic parts needed”), and that ElectraMeccanica is free to go bankrupt anytime they want.

    And btw, I do think that the Solo EV that was “sighted” runs. Plopping a custom body on top of a mobility scooter is well within Jerry’s Custom Body Shop capabilities. What I question is the ability to mass produce the thing, so that they can deliver ALL orders at the promised price. Pog doesn’t know how much full custom bodies really cost, with each non-generic part being a special-order. This is what I am questioning: That Jerry has negotiated parts supply (aka mass produced parts supply) in order to feed his assembly line with enough parts to fulfill all orders at the promised price.

  9. Grece quoth, “The Solo’s chassis is made from the same strong but lightweight aluminum composite as the floor on a Boeing 787”.

    See Wikipedia: “Aluminium composite panel (ACP), also aluminium composite material (ACM), is a type of flat panel that consists of two thin aluminium sheets bonded to a non-aluminium core. ACPs are frequently used for external cladding or facades of buildings, insulation, and signage.

    Sandwich panels are used in applications where high structural rigidity and low weight are required. An evident example of use of sandwich panels is aircraft, where mechanical performance and weight saving is essential. Other applications include packaging (e.g. fluted polypropylene boards of polypropylene honeycomb boards), transportation and automotive as well as building & construction.”

    That’s not the same as aluminium at all.

  10. Grece wrote, “the vehicle taken to Toronto does not even function.”

    Facts not in evidence.

  11. Grece says:

    I would also note, that the vehicle taken to Toronto does not even function.

    https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/nhcLqda9.png

  12. Grece says:

    Go home and take your meds. About the only aluminium in Solo are the front and rear energy a absorbing parts.

    LMAO….you really need to learn how to read.

    The company sees the vehicle as ideal for low-speed commutes but it does have some safety features. Those include a backup camera, aluminum-alloy tubes built into the side for crash protection and aluminum crush zones in the front and rear. The Solo’s chassis is made from the same strong but lightweight aluminum composite as the floor on a Boeing 787.Additionally, the drive-train is comprised of aluminum as well, but wait Robert you left out the 15″ aluminum alloy wheels in either Anthracite Grey or Platinum Silver!

  13. DrLoser says:

    At a given speed, the energy that needs to be absorbed is less for a lighter vehicle, so that argument doesn’t scale.

    I’m going to interpret your comment as “that argument does scale.” Because otherwise it’s meaningless. Obviously, for a lighter vehicle, it scales downwards, which is fine.

    Now then. What do you suppose happens to all this “absorbed energy,” eh? Without prejudice to the design of your proposed tricycle, I’m guessing that the idea (given your description) is for the front and back aluminum elements to act as bumpers. Which is fine, as far as it goes, because — lacking any structural engineering analysis — I think we can safely assume that the intent is for the bumpers to absorb energy by going past the yield point and into plasticity. Result — a bumper that buckles both in and out of plane, and needs a total replacement. Job half done.

    Now, consider what the bumper is attached to, and how it is attached. Perhaps it is attached by shear bolts. Perhaps not. But I very much doubt that it is part of a proper crumple zone design.

    And I very much doubt that the rest of your plastic carapace is going to emerge from even the lightest of collisions with, say, a gas-guzzling SUV, unscathed. I can imagine all sorts of sophisticated thermo CFRP components on an actual large scale production automobile that would afford some (though not a lot of) protection in such a case.

    Your lame boutique wing-and-a-dream not-quite-yet purchase does not fall into that category, Robert.

    But in the unlikely event that it ever comes to pass … make sure you don’t leave it in the way of TLW’s SUV, will you? It would be like a steam-roller encountering a small speed bump.

  14. DrLoser wrote, ” do not believe that something constructed out of aluminum parts that are “designed to absorb energy” is any better than a carapace built out of rice paper”.

    At a given speed, the energy that needs to be absorbed is less for a lighter vehicle, so that argument doesn’t scale. The worst case is a head-on collision with a heavy vehicle. There crush distance is much more important than energy absorption.

  15. DrLoser says:

    About the only aluminium in Solo are the front and rear energy a absorbing parts.

    Not especially comforting, if I’m sitting in a tricycle built for one.

    Most (possibly all) metals and metal composites exhibit a tendency to switch between being moderately elastic and, well, plastic — defined as the “yield point.” Aluminum is most certainly one such. The stuff has a Young’s Modulus of 68.9 Giga-Pascals, which sounds very impressive until you realise what a teeny, tiny, measurement a single Mega-Pascal is.

    In short, I do not believe that something constructed out of aluminum parts that are “designed to absorb energy” is any better than a carapace built out of rice paper.

    You are, of course, free to dispute this assertion.

  16. Grece says:

    [(250×400) / 10] – 7500

  17. Greece wrote, “bolting and welding aluminum plates”.

    Go home and take your meds. About the only aluminium in Solo are the front and rear energy a absorbing parts. As far as I can tell no plates were involved except mounting points.

  18. Grece wrote, “So with $100K in funds from deposits, this should in theory, give Electra Meccanica an additional $2500 in revenue for ten vehicles to be constructed initially.”

    Huh? This does not compute. The deposits are not extra revenue, but part of the selling price. My number was over 500, so they could be over 1000 deposits now. They’ve ramped up promotion considerably in the last few months.

  19. Grece says:

    Ohio, in the words of our loony benefactor, just shut up.

    500 sales on a R&D prototype testing out new chassis construction is still better than a R&D prototype that is build and makes zero sales.

    Do you comprehend the meaning of the word “sales”? There have not been a single unit sold, at best there have been 400+ deposits and that’s it. You last part of your rambling is correct, in that, there have been ZERO sales.

    Now the question is, how much of the $100K is profit over revenue for say ten electric big-wheels? Working backwards of the sale price $15K, the cost should be around $7500 to build leaving another $7500 in revenue, effectively showing a markup of 100% which is typical. So with $100K in funds from deposits, this should in theory, give Electra Meccanica an additional $2500 in revenue for ten vehicles to be constructed initially.

    R&D prototype testing out new chassis construction

    Oh yes, bolting and welding aluminum plates is such a demanding deal, that it requires a year in research and development is a joke. I mean, it’s not like any of the R&D work is being done in Jerry’s garage. They outsourced it all, which anyone can do, but consumes a lot of your project budget and this clown has been fishing attempting to source funds to continue the scam.

  20. DrLoser says:

    Or, let me put it another way.

    “Dragon’s Den” is what is known, in show business terms, as “Car crash TV.”

    Very nearly appropriate in this case, except that one would have to replace the word “car” with the word “tricycle.”

  21. DrLoser says:

    This is a show where newbies seek advice/funding from old hands.

    It’s also a show for desperate people who can’t get funded in any other way and have racked up a 90% instant failure rate, Robert.

  22. oiaohm says:

    Kurkosdr did you read the preorder money amount. 250×400 That is only 100000 from the solo. 20 units out door paid for is more money in bank than pre-order.

    yet they took your money
    That is what is interesting about the Solo case. They have taking a 100 percent refundable 250 dollar deposit not the full 15000 RRP value of the solo.

    Intermeccanica has a track record of doing this. ElectraMeccanica has used the Intermeccanica process of low deposit value so that they cannot burn up all the operational budget before production starts because that money is not in their bank accounts to be wasted.

    The money ElectraMeccanica has blown is mostly R&D money. The pre-orders were only opened after the first stages of pro-types were complete. The 100000 would have gone in production line set up from the pre-orders.

    500 sales on a R&D prototype testing out new chassis construction is still better than a R&D prototype that is build and makes zero sales.

    $10 million dollar loss to get a new chassis production method going forwards is insanely cheap.

  23. Kurkosdr says:

    ” The lights are still on. People are being paid. ”

    Who cares? Do you know about the state of the assembly line?

  24. Grece says:

    “Just shut up.”

    And that my friends, is the best response to date. I’m sorry Robert, but the truth can be painful at times, we are just pointing out the obvious, which you seem to be continually over-looking in your daily adventures.

  25. Kurkosdr wrote, “There is a very high chance that Jerry’s Custom Body Shop has already blown through most of the pre-order money plus any other funding for R&D and for building the prototypes and a couple dozen or so production vehicles for early birds, and their assembly line has stalled due to lack of parts”.

    Or not. The lights are still on. People are being paid. Just shut up.

  26. Kurkosdr says:

    yet they have your money = yet they took your money

  27. Kurkosdr says:

    So, they are seeking funding, a week before the promised date of first shipments. This is getting better and better.

    And no, I don’t care how much money Jerry has, because there is no guarantee he wants to spend them for producing the Solo.

    Let me re-iterate for one more time: There is a very high chance that Jerry’s Custom Body Shop has already blown through most of the pre-order money plus any other funding for R&D and for building the prototypes and a couple dozen or so production vehicles for early birds, and their assembly line has stalled due to lack of parts, and if this highly likely scenario is true, you ‘ve just wasted your money.

    You have no information on the condition of ElectraMeccanica’s finances or at least assembly line status, the company has no track record, yet they have your money and are free to go bankrupt any moment they want.

  28. According to EMV their CEO and the Solo will be on CBC’s Dragons Den. This is a show where newbies seek advice/funding from old hands. It could be great advertising and some investment in EMV. DD runs 11-12, just before lunch in the Central timezone.

  29. Grece wrote, “if this fails to secure additional funding, I can see the entire venture going bottoms up. There is no market for an electric big-wheel, even if there is ~500 people placing a $250 down-payment.”

    Let’s see then. Logically, there’s no market for

    • 3 wheeled vehicles,
    • 2 wheeled vehicles, and
    • unicycles.

    but I’ve actually operated a tricycle before and I’ve seen them in person and on TV, bicycles are everywhere, and a few crazy people do operate unicycles. So, Grece is wrong again and bases more false conclusions on false narratives.

    Obviously, there is a need for inexpensive commuter-vehicles like Solo. Asia and Africa would love them. Even Canadians can see the benefit. Certainly car-pooling and public transit are more efficient solutions but the vast majority of Canadians can’t rely on those alone. In my whole life I’ve only used a carpool a few times and that was in crisis, a strike at the public transit. We are too dispersed for those solutions to work for everyone. All the suburban and rural folk and city people who just don’t want commuting to be complicated love the concept of Solo. Get used to it. Whether or not Jerry gets funding for building massively in Canada, China will take up the slack and millions will be driving such vehicles sooner or later. 6K+ people are following Solo/EMV on FaceBook. Hundreds have made deposits. There is certainly a market. At these prices there certainly is a margin. I predict EMV will survive one way or another and Solo will get to market very soon. There is a need and it can be met. I’d like it to be mass-produced tomorrow but if that doesn’t happen it will happen gradually. It’s all good.

  30. Grece says:

    Jerry’s not broke. He invested $millions and has brought forth ~$10million, enough to get the business this far.

    Of course Jerry isn’t broke, I meant that as a figure of speech. I would have thought you would be smart enough to understand the distinction, guess I over-estimated you.

    Obviously, Jerry’s business plan entailed securing government funding and having a solid round of investment input, but neither panned out, so he is panning for monies in reality television. So if this fails to secure additional funding, I can see the entire venture going bottoms up. There is no market for an electric big-wheel, even if there is ~500 people placing a $250 down-payment.

  31. Grece wrote, “The SOLO was trailered to Toronto for a reality television show, in which entrepreneurs pitch their business ideas to secure investment finance from a panel of venture capitalists. In other words, Jerry be broke and needs more monies!”

    If Jerry were broke he wouldn’t have been able to afford the trip. Jerry’s not broke. He invested $millions and has brought forth ~$10million, enough to get the business this far. He has stated he would like to do the mass-production in Canada but can do it in China. I don’t know whether this is a fundraising trip or just cheap advertising. Either way it’s fun for me.

  32. Grece says:

    What on Earth are you ranting about, Grece? You’re incoherent.

    Oh I don’t know. I have been performing back-breaking working tilling up my 1/4 acre garden, with a real tiller mind-you.

    So, let me get this straight. The SOLO was trailered to Toronto for a reality television show, in which entrepreneurs pitch their business ideas to secure investment finance from a panel of venture capitalists. In other words, Jerry be broke and needs more monies! That’s what I be ranting about. Obviously, you’re irrational to believe this scam, why else would someone do this?

  33. Grece wrote, “Oh yes, buy our electric car, but wait we towed it here to show you, but it’s VERY reliable and economical.”

    What on Earth are you ranting about, Grece? You’re incoherent.

  34. Grece says:

    Towed? LOL…that thing was brought there via trailer.

    Oh yes, buy our electric car, but wait we towed it here to show you, but it’s VERY reliable and economical. You can put a deposit on one, but we won’t sell you a vehicle ever!

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