The Sad Case Of The Linux Foundation

“Tom King and I collared Jim Zemlin and I made mention to him that there was little to catch the Desktop user’s attention or interest within the gathering’s program and scheduling for the duration of the summit. Zemlin stood in front of Tom and I and looked down his nose while explaining that there was no real market for the Desktop application For linux and The Linux Foundation had no real use for the desktop or its users.”
 
See The Linux Foundation: Not a Friend of Desktop Linux, the GPL, or Openness
Once upon a time, TLF had a Desktop User’s Group… No more. Red Hat and many other members have little interest in the desktop and are willing to let M$ run roughshod over the world… That’s sad, but we desktop users will survive systemd, pulseaudio and all the other M$-like crap folks throw at us. We will go over, under or around all the barriers and enjoy desktop software that works for us, not against us. I recommend Debian GNU/Linux simply for that reason.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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35 Responses to The Sad Case Of The Linux Foundation

  1. Well_well says:

    LOL, people like Kurkosdr now pretend to promote *BSD in a doomed quest to not look like a bunch of bitter Micro-Stasi fanboys that they are.

    While I definitely have nothing against *BSD in the principle, there is no denying that they are not well-suited for today’s desktop needs. Look, none of the BSDs today has even driver support for 802.11ac WLAN! It’s apparent that they are seriously lacking in development resources what it comes to desktop-related things.

    Of course, Windows is also the OS for laptops, because of battery life…

    Or could it perhaps be that there is no enough demand for better Linux drivers since most people are so apathetic that they don’t care if they have spyware on their machines? I, for example, can live with having to install OS myself and little shorter battery life, if I can avoid using spyware by doing that.

    This terrorism buzz has made everyone totally nuts. People are willing to trade in their essential freedoms to purchase something that can’t be called even a little temporary safety.

  2. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy changing a Linux system to a new motherboard lot of cases you can set a few things back before shutdown the system down. Plug the old harddrive into new motherboard and boot.

    Btw, what is that “no installation media” you have in that beautiful mind of yours? I surely hope you don’t want to say that it is not possible to install Windows 10 from a USB or DVD…
    What you did not get is no installation media required so only a upgrade not a clean installed system.

    What is this magical OS that one can install on a machine which doesn’twork?
    Technically different Linux Distributions because you installed the OS on another machine before putting the hard drive inside. So you can have Linux installed in a machine never booted because ram or something else is missing. Linux can auto detect stuff first run.

    Interesting enough windows can be imaged this way but it requires drivers set for the type of computer it going to run into. So you don’t need a matching configuration in the Linux setup. Only that you are going 1 bit of compatible hardware to another bit of compatible hardware.

  3. Deaf Spy says:

    one (OS) that requires you to have a working machine before you can install.

    Dear, dear, dear! What is this magical OS that one can install on a machine which doesn’twork?

    Btw, what is that “no installation media” you have in that beautiful mind of yours? I surely hope you don’t want to say that it is not possible to install Windows 10 from a USB or DVD…

  4. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy replacing motherboard cpu and ram is classed as a upgrade not a new machine. Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPU don’t require replacing video card or power supply or all drives or case.

    What Deaf Spy are you idiot on topic. Apple define that a upgrade could be everything bar the harddrive and it still be a upgrade. Yes some of there 1994 upgrade kits was everything in the apple machine bar the hard drive.

    Microsoft is the one who wants to have the define of replacing motherboard is a new machine. Linux world uses the old Apple define.

  5. Deaf Spy wrote, “This, Robert, translates directly to a new machine.”

    Irrelevant. If there are no “media” how do you install on a barebones system? That’s a stupid OS to choose, one that requires you to have a working machine before you can install.

  6. Deaf Spy says:

    If you install a new motherboard (Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPU) in an old machine

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    Robert, if you install a new motherboard (Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPU), you will need a new CPU and new memory along. This, Robert, translates directly to a new machine.

  7. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr by the way flatpak does not work on BSD. So all those complaints about being stuck running old applications there is nothing in the near by roadmap to deal with that problem under BSD or Solarias platforms.

  8. oiaohm says:

    However, Windows remains the best solution for high-performance graphics (and by “high-performance” I mean anything better than some integrated Intel GPU which cannot even run God Of War on PPSSPP without stuttering heavily).
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-linux-pascal&num=4
    kurkosdr there are now cases where in high performance graphics windows at times is slower than Linux. Note Metro Last Light Redux and Insurgency. It mostly comes down to how good the port is to Linux these days. If it a good port windows is slower.

    This is happening more and more with Linux due to high end servers using GPU to accelerate processing so graphics card has to work.

    Which is the reason Microsoft is repositioning Windows as the tool for 3D graphics creators and gamers
    So what Microsoft is trying to close the gate after most the sheep have bolted. What OS do blender render farms run. That is right Linux. What are the render farms for most 3D graphics applications Linux. So Microsoft is a little late to the party for 3D graphics creators as the engines have to be optimised for Linux anyhow.

    The laptop power loss due to Nvidia not powering down and using Intel and multi graphics not working. That has require pulling Nvidia and AMD to the talking table about how to implement multi GPU from different vendor support working together.
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GitHub-Doc-Memory-Alloc

    The end result after all this is Nvidia, AMD, Intel and other vendors working on supporting Heterogeneous Memory Management and other unified solutions in their graphics drivers.

    There is no particular reason to choose GNU/Linux over PC-BSD or OpenIndiana to do those.
    There are a few reasons to choose GNU/Linux. Broader hardware support than OpenIndiana or PC-BSD.

    In Freebsd that is the base of PC-BSD there is 26954 ports/packages Debian is basically double that. There has been work at different times to make Debian work with a freebsd kernel because Debian has more packages than Freebsd has ports. OpenIndiana list is even smaller. Picking distributions are at not Debian in the Linux world also restricts the applications you have access to quite a lot.

    BSD you have to live with sndio sound server. That can be badly supported as well.
    https://www.openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon2010_sndio_slides.pdf stuttering audio happens on BSD systems as well due to the same reasons why pulseaudio does it. Solution to both sndio and pulseaudio problems really need to come from kernel mode.

    If you are worried about getting access to the features that will see power usage improve first you most likely want Linux as well.

  9. kurkosdr says:

    And it won’t install on most older computers… I’d call that lockout.

    On the other hand, if you have a recent powerful AMD or Nvidia card, Windows 10 is a complementary good… if you want to get your money’s worth graphics-performance-wise.

    Is this “ebil”? Maybe. Is it also a necessity for people who need that performance? Yes.

    If all you need is a basic browser, text editor and a basic home server, and no proprietary content-creation apps or MS Office, then you are lucky. Everything covers your needs. GNU/Linux does. PC-BSD does. OpenIndiana does. Windows 98Se with KernelEx does (warning for doofuses: that last sentence was semi-sarcastic). Anything can do that. There is no particular reason to choose GNU/Linux over PC-BSD or OpenIndiana to do those. In fact, considering that the last two OSes do not have any Systemd or PulseAudio infestations, there are reasons to not choose GNU/Linux, but you see, GNU/Linux has a team of dedicated GPL worshippers pushing it.

    However, Windows remains the best solution for high-performance graphics (and by “high-performance” I mean anything better than some integrated Intel GPU which cannot even run God Of War on PPSSPP without stuttering heavily).

    Which is the reason Microsoft is repositioning Windows as the tool for 3D graphics creators and gamers, hedging their bets against any loss at the low-end from ChromeOS or Android. Yeah, I know, for the first time in decades, Microsoft’s Windows strategy does not involve being asleep on the wheel. I was surprised too.

    Of course, Windows is also the OS for laptops, because of battery life… which means Desktop Linux sucks on high-performance Desktops, and sucks on all laptops. Which explains its market share.

  10. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson I like how the acer instructions tell you to run the compatibility check then you will find out that they that 1Ghz x86 process I have from before 2012-2013 is unsupported.

    Really with Windows 10 a lot of the information gets people hopes up that there hardware will be supported when it was never been supported.

  11. Grece wrote, “Even 12-years is not too old to install Windows 10.”

    “What are the hardware requirements to upgrade to Windows 10?
     
    Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster
    RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
    Free hard disk space: 16 GB (32-bit) or 20GB (64-bit)
    Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver A Microsoft account and Internet access”

    That cuts out all but 12 PCs I ever met in schools. See Acer FAQS

    There’s also another wrinkle. If you install a new motherboard (Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPU) in an old machine all you can install is “10” or FLOSS. Further, there are no installation media… I imagine that’s quite a pain…

  12. oiaohm says:

    Grece really idiot you have no clue of windows 10 limits are.
    http://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/support/processors/000006105.html

    Even 12-years is not too old to install Windows 10.
    Grece stop lies.

    Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster
    RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
    Free hard disk space: 16 GB
    Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver

    This is mostly deceptive. Intel processor 2012 and newer. AMD processor 2013 and newer. So max of 4-5 years old systems for Windows 10. The compatibility checker will tell any system older than that is incompatible with Windows 10 and it will hopefully refuse to install because it does install it will be wanting cpu features your cpu does not have.

    You want to run a 12 year old system with current software its install Linux.

  13. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson really Ubuntu started showing signs of this when they drop upstart and decided to change to systemd. There were a lot of firing then as well.

    Really most distributions are not in GUI development game. So Ubuntu getting out of the GUI development game is to be expected.

    Christine Hall is right and wrong. There is a very big shift going on.

    https://wiki.gnome.org/Newcomers/BuildProject
    I provided this link because it important. Gnome is going flatpak. This is distribution neutral idea. So if Ubuntu is using Gnome and Gnome is all flatpak what GUI development will Ubuntu be doing.

    Also gnome and kde going flatpak undermines Ubuntu idea of custom patching applications to use mir. Part of flatpak is wayland support.
    https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak/wiki
    So Ubuntu NIH nature was doomed from the start.

    Linux Desktops are going to be still here even if Ubuntu pulls full out of desktop development. The thing that may be different is the fact is by the end of this year out desktop might be from like kde/gnome/who ever directly instead of by distribution.

    Canonical needs to be smart and creative on the desktop.
    That idea is what doomed them. The most important thing was cooperating with others on a unified goal. Redhat is defeated competitor after competitor by remembering how important it to allow the community to work with them. If a person cannot submit what they need to your projects to fix them they will start a competitor and if the majority of people cannot submit to your project the result will be crushed under the competitor.

    Until CLA changes Canonical will keep on being crushed under foot. Really Canonical had a good run as most with a CLA like Canonical barely lasted 3 years before being forked and crushed.

  14. Grece says:

    And it won’t install on most older computers… I’d call that lockout.

    Your notion of “lockout” is fantasy.

    How old is too old for a computer?

    3-5 years?

    6-7 years?

    What about ten years?

    Even 12-years is not too old to install Windows 10.

    Here’s what Microsoft says you need to run Windows 10:
    Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster
    RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) (32-bit) or 2 GB (64-bit)
    Free hard disk space: 16 GB
    Graphics card: Microsoft DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM driver

    Why 1ghz, arrived at the turn of the century Robert. So is seventeen years time old to install Windows 10? Not according to Microsoft. I think you need to revisit your facts again, and quit with the non sequitur hyperbole.

  15. oiaohm wrote, “The reality is most of Ubuntu projects have been doomed because of Canonical CLA requirements.”

    This could be bigger than that sort of thing. Christine Hall has postulated that Canonical will be phasing out the desktop eventually

    Her thesis is based on the idea that Canonical is tired of pouring money into the project and is trimming hard to make the server/cloud areas profitable. I don’t know whether this is true or not and it may not be relevant. Folks still have Red Hat or Debian GNU/Linux and anyway, one can probably install a desktop environment and applications on Ubuntu GNU/Linux whether or not Canonical cooperates. GNU/Linux doesn’t discriminate between a desktop or a server. I’ve run desktop applications on both systems. GNU/Linux doesn’t care. My “Beast” does both. Today, my smartphone does both too. I have a mess of “apps” and services running on it. It really doesn’t care. We can play video on the smartphone and view it on the TV, for instance. I can run Debian GNU/Linux on an Android/Linux system. I can SSH in or out.

    Many have tried to make money selling GNU/Linux desktops. That seems to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. GNU/Linux wants to be $FREE and FREE. OTOH, many make money providing services to users of Desktop GNU/Linux. Perhaps Canonical will just shift its business model a bit. Time will tell. I think GNU/Linux desktops will evolve and survive. They are just too good to “fail” whatever that means for an OS taking over the world, albeit in slow motion. Then there’s Android/Linux. What’s different between Google and Canonical? Google makes a ton of money selling services to Android/Linux users and businesses without charging for the OS. Then M$ could do nothing with smartphones. Canonical needs to be smart and creative on the desktop. Unity wasn’t that. No one wants to search for applications when the browser/office suite/clock/weather were the gearshift of the desktop. No one wants to hunt for a gear when they drive…

  16. oiaohm says:

    http://maruos.com/
    Deaf Spy there a few different paths to convergence between phone and desktop.

    The remaining options are fairly much listed on the Mer page of the wikipedia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mer_%28software_distribution%29

    Everything left is Qt convergence based other than maruos. Even Unity was Qt based. Now Canonical upstream nightmares. Plasma mobile from KDE is directly linked to Qt core development. Kde had no interest in integrating Mir.
    https://community.kde.org/KWin/Wayland#Why_not_Mir.3F
    Its written clearly here and all the other Qt based phone platforms are also going wayland.

    Android and chrome os is about the last hold with Linux graphical that is not a wayland standard following graphical server inside or with a road map to a wayland standard graphical server inside. Chrome OS running a standard wayland server on top is truly possible.

    If only one distribution support an interface KDE project is not going out there way to support you. Having other distributions work with you on core parts is critical.

    Canonical path has been fairly much doomed from the start.

    See, Robert, no one cares of Linux desktop anymore:
    The fact it being talked about in major places kind makes the statement false even before you start. Name one major news site talking about the recent OS/2 fork changes. ArcaOS really did not get any major media coverage at all most most people did not give a rats about it.

    Like or not Linux Desktop is still news worthy.

  17. Grece wrote, “Windows 10 does not lock you out if you don’t activate it. It only prevents you from changing a few desktop settings, and that’s all. You only need a stock installation image and you’re golden.”

    And it won’t install on most older computers… I’d call that lockout.

  18. oiaohm says:

    The reality is most of Ubuntu projects have been doomed because of Canonical CLA requirements. The same problem OpenOffice had under Sun. You want to doom a open source project put a CLA on it.

    Linux Foundation main job is to pay developers or get developers jobs where they can keep working on projects and fund conferences. Nothing about Linux Foundation core objectives says they have high morals.

    https://wiki.gnome.org/Newcomers/BuildProject
    This is a big change. Where gnome development now depend on flatpak.

    http://www.jgrulich.cz/2017/02/14/kde-discover-flatpak-backend/

    KDE is also going down a flatpak route.

    So the end of the Distribution walled garden is coming to Linux.

    People who care about free software torrent Windows, they don’t use Linux. Windows 10 does not lock you out if you don’t activate it.
    Idiots like this don’t care if there computer is part of a botnet so end up with their internet account cancelled in lots of countries. Why if you don’t activate windows 10 it does not get the security updates. Know this very well using the legal virtual machine images for testing if website is compatible with Microsoft browsers.

  19. Grece says:

    People who care about free software torrent Windows, they don’t use Linux. Windows 10 does not lock you out if you don’t activate it. It only prevents you from changing a few desktop settings, and that’s all. You only need a stock installation image and you’re golden.

  20. Well_well wrote, “If anything, reducing redundant effort and emphasizing cooperation will make Linux on Desktop stronger.”

    Yes, I’ve thought that all along. Canonical did a lot but much was wasted effort rather than promoting GNU/Linux. I quit using Ubuntu because so much of it was broken, useless tweaking, of Debian GNU/Linux.

  21. Well_well says:

    “GNU/Linux desktops are alive and well here and in many places where folks want IT that works for them instead of for M$. While the share is still small by some measures, it is solid and growing.”

    Yes, and there is also some newfound interest on it by commercial application and developers. Even Microsoft of all companies with their new and shiny Visual Studio Code editor have gone cross-platform.

    If anything, reducing redundant effort and emphasizing cooperation will make Linux on Desktop stronger.

  22. Well_well wrote, “Now that Canonical axed a single stupid NIH project, the TM Repository remnant keeps screaming how that makes Linux on desktop supposedly dead”.

    GNU/Linux desktops are alive and well here and in many places where folks want IT that works for them instead of for M$. While the share is still small by some measures, it is solid and growing.

  23. Well_well says:

    Ballmerism. First a tragedy, now a farce.

    Now that Canonical axed a single stupid NIH project, the TM Repository remnant keeps screaming how that makes Linux on desktop supposedly dead, while by any imaginable measure it is faring better than ever.

    What makes it even more hilarious, now Microsoft too is faring better than ever after kicking out Ballmer and axing those propaganda campaigns based on haterd and harrassment like that sorry astroturf site called TM Repository.

  24. Deaf Spy says:

    See, Robert, no one cares of Linux desktop anymore:

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/05/ubuntu_euthanizes_unity/

    Finally it gets what it deserves. Despite wretched, it was still an attempt to do something good in the wasteland of Linux Desktop GUIs…

  25. Kurkosdr says:

    It’s the corporate mindset that spoils everything. Like when someone creates a good thing, some capitalism must come and put a flag on it and declare his territory.

    Tesla also wanted free energy for all of us. Edison killed elephants to prove him wrong.

    And today, we’re far from alternative energies (well, we’ve been farer)

    Bahaha! Capitalism gave us the industrial revolution during the Victorian Age, Tesla successfully sold his AC patents to Westinghouse, and the whole “Tesla had invented free energy and gravity guns” nonsense is a myth perpetuated by the internet.

    Lemme guess, getting your facts from The Oatmeal and other similar fine knowledge sources?

  26. Grece wrote, “you have not grown anything to eat.”

    ISTR eating onions, beets, corn, peppers, carrots, peas, potatoes, Saskatoon berries, asparagus, haskap berries, pumpkins, tomatoes and soon we will have lots of fruit: apricots, apples, plums, and cherries. I’m going to grow some annual fruit this year, garden huckleberry, just for fun. One year we had more than we could handle but the last few years have been poor. It’s not great soil and in a bad season hardly anything grows.

  27. Agent_Smith says:

    Kurkosdr says:
    Also, what is the point of The Four Freedums if you still have to endure whatever crap others want to push towards your side such as systemd and pulseaudio?

    It’s the corporate mindset that spoils everything. Like when someone creates a good thing, some capitalism must come and put a flag on it and declare his territory.

    Tesla also wanted free energy for all of us. Edison killed elephants to prove him wrong.

    And today, we’re far from alternative energies (well, we’ve been farer)

    But, it’s always like that: The greed ruins everything.

    Regards,

  28. Grece says:

    I have trays and pots with seeds and seedlings laying all over the house

    And yet, you have not grown anything to eat.

  29. DrLoser wrote, “Have you lost what little remains of that finely-tuned mind that blessedly led you through four sequential highly successful careers to the opulent lifestyle that you now, deservedly, luxuriate in?”

    No. I had at least five careers. I didn’t want to get into a rut. I’m doing what I want mostly these days. That’s pretty luxurious. I have trays and pots with seeds and seedlings laying all over the house and TLW barely notices. I’m in Heaven without having to die for it.

  30. DrLoser says:

    In what way is either Pulse Audio or systemd “Microsoft-like crap,” Robert?

    Have you lost what little remains of that finely-tuned mind that blessedly led you through four sequential highly successful careers to the opulent lifestyle that you now, deservedly, luxuriate in?

  31. Kurkosdr says:

    Bahaha!

    Pogson, meet reality.

    Also, what is the point of The Four Freedums if you still have to endure whatever crap others want to push towards your side such as systemd and pulseaudio?

    Which allows me to say: It’s not about the source code dear Watson, it’s about compatibility.

  32. Grece wrote, “every thing you decide on or use in life fails?”

    My new smartphone arrived today. Problems getting the cover off to insert the battery and couldn’t enter my current password, but it’s fine now. Very fast, bright and large display. Much better than my old one. The grinder and welding electrodes I recently bought are just peachy. Even TLM likes the job I did on her pruning shears… I’m winning.

  33. Grece says:

    Devuan, is beta please! No one is going to use that junk.

    Why all the griping? Linux has surpassed the desktop, time to move on.

    Why are you insisting on recommending Debian, over all others, when it seems that every thing you decide on or use in life fails?

  34. Gonzalo says:

    Devuan, when is ready.

  35. Agent_Smith says:

    The Linux Foundation is a proxy for many corporate interests. They are enemies of freedom and the GNU principle. Open Source is all that matters to them.

    Regards,

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