Electra Meccanica Doesn’t Just Build Cheap Cars

“The Battery box cap part was manufactured using titanium (Ti64ELI) on Precision ADM’s EOS M290. “We thought titanium would be the best material for its strength to weight ratio,” said Martin Petrak, CEO and President Precision ADM. “It allowed a reduction of the wall thickness by half therefore reducing the weight while maintaining the parts strength and stiffness.”
 
“The Part was delivered to spec and installed on a prototype in less than two weeks,” stated Frank Defalco, Manager Canada Makes. “This project highlights two of the main appeals in adopting additive manufacturing. The time saved receiving a working metal prototype, which speeds up new products to market, and significant weight savings of parts when designed for additive manufacturing (DfAM).””
 
See Electra Meccanica Vehicles Corp. Archives
I’m known for shopping by price. My recent decision to buy the Electra Meccanica Solo has been assumed to be more of the same, but it’s not. EM uses modern design methods even though it’s a tiny upstart. They’ve partnered with Intermeccanica which has been around a while. Siemens makes their heat-transfer analysis software. Now it’s revealed that one of their parts was made of 3D-printed titanium for speed to the prototype, and strength to weight ratio. I can relate to that. I like to design what I build but I’m not so fancy. For me, EM’s Solo is a Space Age car emerging from the black hole of the oily 20thCentury into the intelligent 21st. It’s all good. I like optimal transportation.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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50 Responses to Electra Meccanica Doesn’t Just Build Cheap Cars

  1. oiaohm says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight

    Grece learn to fix your own faults first. Kerb Weight is UK english and how it written in Australian documents. Curb weight is USA/Canada english. Kurd and cars don’t match at all.

    This is the funny part there is no medications that work for dyslexia. It is also funny how many times so called faults in my english are yours Grece go take your own medication I think is needed you are seeing faults that don’t exist.

  2. oiaohm says:

    It’s more than that now, about 1380 pounds: bigger battery, full body, wider body all add up.
    That is still not the required 1500 pounds before USA regulation steps in. It got to put on another 120 pound before NHTSA comes a factor. Yes even with airbags is still under what requires regulation in the USA.

    There are lot of items on USA roads that don’t require any regulation.

    Australian regulator and ANCAP is clear its enclosed so is not a motorcycle it has to be tested.

    With more light compact cars coming into production USA will have to change their regulations.

  3. Grece says:

    kerb / kurd Dyslexia kicking in again little ohm, time for your meds.

  4. oiaohm wrote, “Solo is 992 pounds”.

    It’s more than that now, about 1380 pounds: bigger battery, full body, wider body all add up.

  5. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson there is a kerb weight issue with the Solo and NHTSA. NHTSA min weight for a car is 1500 pounds. Solo is 992 pounds. Tesla kurb weight means it should be in NHTSA Passenger cars heavy (PC/H).

    Grece of course Tesla has a lot of EPA certifications. The reason why the first electric car sold to consumers had to be scraped is the EPA data was not done.

    When one part has done the certifications with the EPA as long as you are not doing anything majority different you can be certified as doing the same as what they did this is way cheaper.

    InterMeccanica also get around being listed with the USA EPA due to reciprocal agreement between Canada equal to the EPA.

    https://www.epa.gov/international-cooperation/epa-collaboration-canada
    The agreement has been in place since 1991. So this Grece being a idiot something made in Canada does not have to be listed on the USA EPA site only has to be listed in Canada equal to EPA in that area due to the 1991 agreement to be legal in the USA.

    So they don’t need a EPA contact at all.

  6. Tesla has many models not rated by NHTSA. What’s with that?

    This certification process is being done in Canada by a proper lab qualified to issue letters of conformity. They don’t have to test everything if parts like tires already are DOT certified. EM has included a lot of DOT certified parts in their bill of materials. I’d bet as a motorcycle, the body of the Solo would certify as a helmet… Face it. The Solo is a lot safer than many motorcycles. I would never drive a two-wheeled motorcycle but I will drive a Solo.

  7. Grece says:

    It’s an electric car. Zero emissions.

    No shit, but Tesla Motors have numerous documents and certifications all over the EPA website. Where is ElectraMeccanica?? Please, by all means run a search inquiry: https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/

    Is that hard to understand? Can you even think rationally anymore? I present fact after fact after fact, and you just blatantly ignore them, hoping that you get a car someday. I am willing to bet if you would visit the showroom and offer cash for a working model, they would take your money and having you believe that it takes two-weeks to get one ready for you, but never follow through with your order. You would have to sue them in court for return of the funds.

    At an on-line conference this evening, Jerry Kroll said the certification process was almost completed. Oh…Jerry said… I see. When did they ship the car? Who is there EPA contact?

    I suppose if Jerry said that the they are going to supplant Tesla in 5-years you would believe it too. This entire endeavor is comical, the more I dig, the more I firmly believe this as like other three-wheel toys will fail.

  8. Grece wrote, “I can find no record of ElectraMeccanica at the EPA for issuance of a certificate of conformity”.

    It’s an electric car. Zero emissions. Is that hard to understand? I think the EPA will love Solo, at least pre-Trump…

    At an on-line conference this evening, Jerry Kroll said the certification process was almost completed. There were only bureaucratic snafus, not show-stoppers.

  9. Grece wrote, “which of the Transport Canada classes ElectraMeccanica have targeted in design: Enclosed Motorcycle, Motor Tricycle, Three-Wheeled Vehicle, or Passenger Car.”

    Three-Wheeled Vehicle fits very well. No air-bags but OK for highways.

  10. Grece says:

    Please, pray tell, which of the Transport Canada classes ElectraMeccanica have targeted in design: Enclosed Motorcycle, Motor Tricycle, Three-Wheeled Vehicle, or Passenger Car.

    Obviously Jerry doesn’t know, which throws a red flag.

    Also, I can find no record of ElectraMeccanica at the EPA for issuance of a certificate of conformity, nor even any sort of documentation stating the ElectraMeccanica in name. Found plenty of Tesla Motors documentation however.

    So in my humble opinion, be that it may, the vehicle in question has not even begun to be certified compliant in the U.S., and any required Canadian certification may not even have started at all.

  11. Grece wrote, “No, you just read what Jerry told you to think.”

    [SARCASM]Grece has inside knowledge on how the certification is going…[/SARCASM]

    What, pray tell, besides certification is preventing EM from shipping units? They have a car. It runs. People love it.

  12. Grece says:

    Chuckle. I’m pretty sure EM will be shipping into USA by May.

    No, you just read what Jerry told you to think.

    First Solo deliveries are now planned for May

    https://electrameccanica.com/electra-meccanica-ceo-update/

  13. Grece wrote, “Negative cash flow, no funding, no reserves, nothing. It amazes me, well to a degree, on how people can be so stupid to believe in utter nonsense.”

    It amazes me that Grece does not understand enterprise, taking risks to leverage growth and revenue. We all know start-ups are risky but a good fraction survive and thrive. EM is managing their risks and living within their means. It’s all good. They have a product priced right to survive once certified. I think that’s a sure thing in USA and Canada. InterMeccanica knows those markets and has been delivering to those markets for decades.

  14. Grece says:

    Three wheel vehicles have been around for decades.

    People rallied around the company’s charismatic CEO, and invested millions of dollars to get the car certified and crash-tested.

    Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

    Furthermore, “If Elio is having trouble raising $7.5 million to purchase the plant,” she says, “where is the $200 million going to come from that is actually needed to bring those jobs to Caddo Parish?”

    I think the SEC stated the exact same thing to Electra Meccanica.

    http://gas2.org/2013/08/21/the-elio-motors-saga-if-it-looks-like-a-dale-and-quacks-like-a-dale/

  15. Grece says:

    Shades of Elio, Electra Meccanica suffers the same problem. Negative cash flow, no funding, no reserves, nothing. It amazes me, well to a degree, on how people can be so stupid to believe in utter nonsense. Yes, EM may have refundable deposits, but that still does not mean you will get your money back. I would be very interested to see the terms of agreement, when the deposit is made.

    But as of September 30, 2016, Elio had a mere $101,317 in cash reserves

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1108812_production-for-elio-3-wheeler-slides-to-2018-is-time-running-out

  16. Grece says:

    It seems class action lawsuit is stirring for Elio. The saying, a fool and thier money is soon departed, still rings true. https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition-to-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-elio

  17. oiaohm says:

    Fe2O3 + 2Al ==> 2Fe + Al2O3
    Grece when I say a variation on that reaction is there are other oxidised materials from a lithium iron battery burn that can take the Fe2O3 place in that reaction. If the lithium iron battery is a Lithium iron phosphate battery the Fe203 will really be there as well. So you end up with Al2O3 by product by something in the battery that has already burnt once back to a state it will burn again while providing even more heat to the fire. There are some acids that get through the protective oxide layer on the aluminium as well that come out the failed lithium iron batteries.

    Exothermic reaction is correct the are a lot of variation that the end result is Al203. Depending on the materials the lithium iron battery is made from in casing you could have up to 8 different Exothermic reactions if the by products are coming into contact with Al.

    http://chemiday.com/en/reaction/3-1-0-7168 there is a double burn problem as well. If Exothermic reaction pushes temperature to 1000+ the lithium will be reacted with the Al to burn again. So the fire burns for longer and your shielding has to hold up for longer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_alloy is out because lithium battery burn gets above 437C or Magnesium alloy light point. 600 degrees C is lithium battery burn temperature. Magnesium ribbon/strip burns at 437C as well. So anything that lights with a Magnesium strip is 100 percent likely to light up with a lithium battery burn. Lighting the mix like termite without iron but with Al203 as result are all under 500C to light.

    Aluminium at 660.3 °C melting point is only just above what the lithium battery burn will make itself. So it does not take much of a reaction to push from 600 degrees C to 660.3 C to melt a hole out to let more air into the burning battery.

    With the Magnesium alloy it will burn adding even more heat and extend the burn time of the fire and letting more air in. Carbon fiber is also only good to 500C after that will burn. So everything you suggested Grece would catch fire. Aluminium was first believed that it would not.

    Aluminium would not burn if the lithium ion batteries did not contain chemicals that will react with it.

    I believe this is almost certainly oiaohm’s most cretinous claim ever. And, let’s face it, he has made an online nusciase of himself (or herself) by making cretinous claims.
    Drloser lithium ion battery burn puts out more heat than magnesium strip. So the test is valid. It it fails magnesium strip test is not strong enough to be in battery proximity let alone under it.

    1,668 °C for titanium to melt and none of the chemicals in a lithium ion battery will cause titanium to burn or melt lower than that. So as long as nothing as put a hole in the titanium the titanium impact resistance is strong enough to stand up to the lithium ion battery explosive force as long as you design the battery box correctly. So now its a battery fire in a confined space with reduced burn time. Exactly what you are after.

    No DrLoser this is just you making another invalid claim of me being wrong.

    Electra Meccanica, is not running 24/7, so as my theoretical role as project manager, why in the hell, would I assume that they do? Let alone use a false variable in my scheduling?
    Grece this is because you are forgot Intermeccanica is the parent company. So the parent company has staff to-do 24/7 builds as long as there are enough sales to justify their staffs time.

    Oh lets see. Do you see any hiring for assemblers?
    Why hire more Assemblers when the parent company already has trained and skilled assemblers. So you are looking completely in the wrong place. Its just a reallocation of staff no one extra to employ until down the track if the product takes off. This is one of the reasons why Electra Meccanica costing are so low.

    Even the SEC is skeptical. The estimated production of 100,000 SOLOs in the twelve month period appears to require significantly more financial resources than $2.94 million At a lowly sum of $7500.00 per unit, the manufacturing cost should be $750 million. Ol’ Jerry cannot hoodwink the SEC, as using Jerry’s numbers, that’s $30 per vehicle. LMAO.
    This is your maths not allowing for things.

    Intermeccanica is can for doing scary things because they are such a old mature company. $2.94 million is enough to start the process particular if you are making presold unit. There is a lot of credit in the setup. Parts bought on credit with payment on sale of finished production.

    Intermeccanica has been doing this with parts suppliers for a while. Part supplier charges like 20 percent more for delayed payment. The difference here is Electra Meccanica is not a new company starting out with nothing they have Intermeccanica reputation they can fall back on and get stuff on credit that a normal company starting out could not. Why part suppliers trust when they say we have X number of sales and will be able to pay for Y number of parts on Z date with M in mark-up on that date to cover interest if the parts are supplied now.

    This is a difference between a new company and a fork off existing. Forking off existing can do a lot more with less capital due to be able to operate so much more on credit.

  18. DrLoser says:

    I can live with that and promise to take good care of it. It should last me all my days.

    Dear me, I hope not, Robert. I expect, and hope, that you will live far longer than this useless and yet to be seen electric tricycle.

    In re which, how is that excellent little Chinese roto-tiller of yours going? As I remember, yet another piece of cheap under-engineered junk that you claimed would outlive you.

    It’s all good, or broken, or worthless. Chuckle.

  19. DrLoser says:

    Anything you can light with a magnesium strip in powdered form you can light as part of lithium ion battery burn.

    I believe this is almost certainly oiaohm’s most cretinous claim ever. And, let’s face it, he has made an online nusciase of himself (or herself) by making cretinous claims.

    Not a single solitary word of that idiocy even approaches sense.

  20. The Wiz wrote, “If you are lucky you may get one of the units of what will most likely turn out as a very limited production run for an orphan vehicle.”

    YES! A collector’s item!

    Seriously though, I think the vehicle will be quite reliable despite its limitations. I can live with that and promise to take good care of it. It should last me all my days. I would love to invest in EM if they have an IPO in Canada. It would be a great short term investment if they can achieve certification in USA or Canada. I think they can achieve that. The guys at InterMeccanica have been building cars for many years and know the ropes. Long term, I think this idea will be copied several ways within a year or two so they will not have a very long-lived monopoly. I think the price will have to come down eventually but it’s still a good purchase for me: durable goods with low maintenance.

  21. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Robert Pogson, you are looking more and more like a poster boy for the phrase

    “The Sad triumph of Hope over Experience”

    If you are lucky you may get one of the units of what will most likely turn out as a very limited production run for an orphan vehicle.

    P.S. Ihe Electro Mechanica Solo seems like to me like a cheap piece of junk that I wouldn’t go near with a 50 foot pole. Then again Hyundai’s were seen as cheap junk when they debuted 20+ years ago, and I drive one (which I payed quite a bit for) now.

  22. Grece wrote, “Ontario Securities Commission filing”.

    That’s a filing to British Columbia. It’s preliminary. It’s already out of date.

  23. Grece wrote, ” The estimated production of 100,000 SOLOs in the twelve month period appears to require significantly more financial resources than $2.94 million”.

    The company has evolved. Grece should as well. The plan to produce ~100K per annum in Canada has fallen through. That will now go to China where a partner has existing plant and labour cranking out millions of motorcycles per annum. The Solo would be just a blip on their accounting.

  24. Grece quoted preliminary filings and wrote, “I am most certain that come May, June and July, Electrameccanica Vehicles Corp. will not have shipped a single unit still.”

    Chuckle. I’m pretty sure EM will be shipping into USA by May. They started certification testing there first as “motorcycle”. That’s a pretty low bar considering they’ve actually driven this thing at high speed on a racetrack and tootled around Vancouver for months now. The risk that they could run out of funds is there but it’s not too serious as out of the hundreds of potential buyers who’ve already put down some money there will be many who would like to invest in the company if for no other reason than to increase the chances of getting their machine. They could probably raise a few $million that way. Out of the general population who like the concept they could raise tens of $millions.

    The only disappointment I see in the plan is that the first testing is for USA, not Canada… That likely means that my purchase could be delayed, or not. Canadian testing looks to be pretty simple to me. They’ve already secured premises to ship 10-20 per month. With a few $million invested in equipment they could finally have revenue and margin per unit shipped. I think the company would be a safe bet at least for a few years if they reach that point. It’s all good. Crucially, while the numbers were not too great, they are still in operation five months later… so it’s not all doom and gloom. As long as there’s hope there will be investors.

  25. Grece says:

    Oh lets see. Do you see any hiring for assemblers?

    http://electrameccanica.com/careers/

    Why would Electrameccanica Vehicles Corp. start building 24/7 when they have not even completed the first ten units, let only shipped a single unit? You should go read the Ontario Securities Commission filing for an enlightenment.

    http://www.investorx.ca/Doc/84TTMMZ8ZBB/2016/10/28/electrameccanica-vehicles-corp/preliminary-long-form-prospectus-english

    I am most certain that come May, June and July, Electrameccanica Vehicles Corp. will not have shipped a single unit still.

    Even the SEC is skeptical. The estimated production of 100,000 SOLOs in the twelve month period appears to require significantly more financial resources than $2.94 million At a lowly sum of $7500.00 per unit, the manufacturing cost should be $750 million. Ol’ Jerry cannot hoodwink the SEC, as using Jerry’s numbers, that’s $30 per vehicle. LMAO.

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1637736/000000000017000466/filename1.pdf

  26. Grece wrote, “why in the hell, would I assume that they do? Let alone use a false variable in my scheduling?”

    EM can certainly hire workers or increase hours to increase production. Why would you not assume that they could?

  27. Grece says:

    As an idiot you apply the wrong maths. Parent company factories run 24/7 in production so they work straight through weekends and holidays with changing teams. Please note in prototype stage they are only doing single 8 hour shift. Not their production 3 shift.

    The math is not wrong, if anything there would be error in my calculations, but there isn’t is there? Electra Meccanica, is not running 24/7, so as my theoretical role as project manager, why in the hell, would I assume that they do? Let alone use a false variable in my scheduling?

  28. Grece says:

    Little ohm, what is your take in this discussion? Besides being Robert’s whipping boy, do you even own a car?

    Grece there were aluminum plates under the battery in the telsa.
    Ok..ok..you’re flipping back and forth on this matter is annoying. First you said there was no plates, then there were titanium plates, but now you’re back to aluminum plates. Can you even keep a consistent story?

    Until they found you had a variation of the thermite reaction from the on road fires. Exothermic reaction? Oh, how is this possible without iron oxide, where did that component derive from? Second, how did the aluminum plate oxidize so quickly? Hint: Fe2O3 + 2Al ==> 2Fe + Al2O3

    Aluminum oxiding releasing heat. Every thing oxidizes, even you, perhaps not as fast as some of us would like, if it weren’t for the LOLs.

    Little more study they found out magnesium alloys will do the same thing. Yes, you need more study, perhaps in the nut ward.

    Burning lithium ion battery burns hot enough to light them. Why are the batteries burning? Did you light them yourself??

    Anything you can light with a magnesium strip in powdered form you can light as part of lithium ion battery burn. ???????

    Pure titanium will not light in that test. See chemical formula above.

    There are other suitable material most more expensive or more fragile than titanium. Oh?…please inform me on other suitable material that is more expensive or fragile, my wanna-be engineer.

  29. DrLoser says:

    As an idiot you apply the wrong maths. Parent company factories run 24/7 in production so they work straight through weekends and holidays with changing teams. Please note in prototype stage they are only doing single 8 hour shift. Not their production 3 shift.

    A little manic this morning, aren’t we, my sweet?

    Have you taken your meds?

  30. oiaohm says:

    If not under the battery, then where is the battery? The shield under the batteries is also titanium now because aluminum did not cut it due to wearing too easily, but wait you just said there are no plates under the battery. Which is it??
    Grece there were aluminum plates under the battery in the telsa. Until they found you had a variation of the thermite reaction from the on road fires. Aluminum oxiding releasing heat. Little more study they found out magnesium alloys will do the same thing. Burning lithium ion battery burns hot enough to light them. Anything you can light with a magnesium strip in powdered form you can light as part of lithium ion battery burn. Pure titanium will not light in that test. There are other suitable material most more expensive or more fragile than titanium.

    As a former project manager, I always calculate work days and figure out how slowly or how quickly projects needs to completed.
    As an idiot you apply the wrong maths. Parent company factories run 24/7 in production so they work straight through weekends and holidays with changing teams. Please note in prototype stage they are only doing single 8 hour shift. Not their production 3 shift.

    Doesn’t even meet the guidelines laid out by the Electric Vehicle Incentive Program. As you need four functioning wheels.
    Grece it does and it does not. One of the regulation things they are talking about. How to make a solo 4 wheels. Simple put two wheels on the drive motor axel. Yes a duel tyre at back they tested that with the prototype non shelled form. So its more of a question is will they enforce that requirement and end up with a small car that is a good rock thrower or will the regulator see common sense.

    The vehicle will have 4 wheel requirements is up there in the camp of stupid particularly when it does not state on separate hubs. The vehicle will have 4 independent wheel hubs with continuous ground contact is how you make sure a vehicle has what you think of as 4 wheels not some form of 2 wheel or 3 wheel working around the 4 wheel requirement.

    If someone made a electric MonoTracer with all the other specs right it would also pass the 4 wheel requirement even that when driving it lifts 2 of it 4 wheels off the ground.

    Improperly worded government regulation causes a lot of stupid things to come into existence.

  31. Grece wrote, “188 days”.

    They might have less than that because certification has not been achieved yet. They mentioned May for the start of deliveries on the blog. Whether production this year will average 2 or 3 or 4 is quite possible because even a tiny increase in staff/space/equipment over such a small base will be huge. In 2017 they should also be scaling up from a small workshop environment to a much larger but still modest facility. They could have much more room to increase production once they have the go ahead. If it weren’t Vancouver, they could probably build them in the parking lot…

    Workspace can be had very quickly if local government zoning isn’t an issue. They can bring together a bunch of shipping containers and create a good space pretty quickly just like mining camps. The Solo is so narrow, one could put in shelves on one side of a container and carts on the other and roll down one container and into another to make a space big enough. I knew a guy once who figured out how to swap engines in a VW Beetle in 30 minutes using some ingenuity. The books said it was ~4h. Small size means every problem of assembly is smaller.

    How many stations do they need? Set chassis on cart, install suspensions, motor, batteries, install electronics, lights and controls, install interior and hoods. Done. Check wheel/lights alignment, charge battery in a larger space like the parking lot. Test everything. Load them onto a carrier. Oh, I guess the sales guys have to accept payment at some point and arrange delivery.

  32. Grece wrote, “Why would they get faster, after building a few?”

    Sex is about the only thing that slows down with practice.

  33. Grece wrote, “I think what you meant to say was the parts count of MOVING parts would be lower and I would not disagree.”

    No. I meant what I wrote. No extra seats, no fourth wheel, no crankshaft, only one gear, rather simple dashboard, no extra doors… It all adds up to way fewer parts and lends itself to rapid assembly in a workshop. I have no idea what their plan of assembly is but they could use a tree-structure leading to “quality control/shipping” or teams following vehicles through the process or assembly lines. They may even use one style during training of assemblers and others as volume increased. At one point they were using a simple workshop. I think the plan is to expand into InterMeccanica’s shops as volume grows and perhaps opening a new shop. Once certified designs are settled, they just press “copy”. The Solo is small enough that two people could probably assemble one unit in a day if they had practice. They could do better if they had small specialized teams for mounting stuff on the chassis, and basic wiring and other teams for assembling the cockpit and hoods. They just need to see who is standing around doing nothing to figure out which teams they need to increase and this could scale up quite a bit. Once they are producing a few a day they are ready to get the Chinese involved. They can do dozens per day easily.

    I don’t think manufacturing is much of an obstacle except at the largest scale. They will leave that to the Chinese. I think the larger problem is having the sales team keep ahead of the builders. Then they need dealerships, parts distribution, etc. Coming to market in a timely manner is a sure thing IMHO. Getting and keeping a jump on the competition is the determinant for long term survival. I think the cars are simple enough that even if they go under, people will be able to keep them on the road where they belong.

  34. Grece says:

    From the EMV-Fact-Sheet-Nov-2016-for-distribution.pdf

    EMV launched the SOLO in September 2016, and is preparing to deliver over 350 pre-ordered vehicles in 2017, with it being April now, this means they need to be spitting out almost two cars a day.

    As a former project manager, I always calculate work days and figure out how slowly or how quickly projects needs to completed.

    Timeline:
    From and including: Saturday, April 1, 2017
    To, but not including Sunday, December 31, 2017
    274 calendar days – 86 days skipped:
    Excluded 40 Saturdays
    Excluded 39 Sundays

    Excluded 7 holidays:
    Memorial Day (Monday, May 29, 2017)
    Independence Day (Tuesday, July 4, 2017)
    Labor Day (Monday, September 4, 2017)
    Columbus Day (Monday, October 9, 2017)
    Veterans Day (observed) (Friday, November 10, 2017)
    Thanksgiving Day (Thursday, November 23, 2017)
    Christmas Day (Monday, December 25, 2017)

    Result: 188 days

  35. Grece says:

    I’ve bought stuff directly from China. So? What does that have to do with anything.

    I know the parts-count of the car is much lower than typical gas-guzzlers. OH, did you take tweezers and count everyone, or are you taking a hyperbole and extended for your benefit? In after thought, I think what you meant to say was the parts count of MOVING parts would be lower and I would not disagree.

    The cost of the parts plus labour will be about 50% of the list price. And you would know this by what means? Did Jerry tell you, possibly share with you some “super secret” spreadsheet?

    After building a few they will improve in speed, too. That means they can make a profit on each unit built. Why would they get faster, after building a few? Are they planning on rolling out a hotter/faster motor?

  36. Grece says:

    Doesn’t even meet the guidelines laid out by the Electric Vehicle Incentive Program. As you need four functioning wheels.

    http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/023-2096E~3/$File/2096E_Guide.pdf

  37. Grece wrote, “How would you know, have you seen the books?”

    I’ve bought stuff directly from China. I know the parts-count of the car is much lower than typical gas-guzzlers. The cost of the parts plus labour will be about 50% of the list price. After building a few they will improve in speed, too. That means they can make a profit on each unit built.

  38. Grece says:

    That revenue should be enough to keep the company afloat until the Chinese ramp up production. ~$20K should ensure profit on each copy, enough to pay the bills anyway. It’s sustainable.

    How would you know, have you seen the books? You sure are putting a lot of assumptions into this venture, one that is cash negative and broke. You would make a horrible investment advisor.

  39. Kurkosdr wrote, “I will wait to see them ship. The world is full of fancy EV prototypes that never left the prototype phase.”

    I’ve built stuff. It is more expensive to do it manually on carts in Vancouver but it can be done to satisfy the current list of depositors. That revenue should be enough to keep the company afloat until the Chinese ramp up production. ~$20K should ensure profit on each copy, enough to pay the bills anyway. It’s sustainable. The question should really be will they sell enough globally to make it worthwhile for the Chinese motorcycle factory to swing into action. That they’ve run up hundreds of depositors is a good sign. That the concept fits a lot of cities around the world and that solar/renewable/electric is growing in acceptance globally tells me this thing will fly. Diversification will lead to two-seaters and perhaps eventually full-size EVs. I don’t see the lights going out at EM in the near term.

  40. Grece says:

    If not under the battery, then where is the battery? The shield under the batteries is also titanium now because aluminum did not cut it due to wearing too easily, but wait you just said there are no plates under the battery. Which is it??

  41. oiaohm says:

    Grece
    Its readily apparent that you do understand anything, the titanium is a shield used in conjunction with high-grade ballistic aluminum so as to protect the battery from foreign object damage from driving.
    The defector plates are not in fact under the battery.

    What this is telling me is that you are depending on me to give you every bit of cite about the technology. What is the box around the tesla battery made of. Go look that up and find its titanium. The shield under the batteries is also titanium now because aluminum did not cut it due to wearing too easily.

    In 2013, two extremely unusual Model S collisions resulted in underbody damage that led to car fires. These incidents, unfortunately, received more national headlines than the other 200,000 gasoline car fires that happened last year in North America alone. In both cases, the occupants walked away unharmed, thanks to the car’s safety features. The onboard computer warned the occupants to exit the vehicles, which they did well before any fire was noticeable. However, even if the occupants had remained in the vehicle and the fire department had not arrived, they would still have been safely protected by the steel and ceramic firewall between the battery pack and the passenger compartment.

    The first bit of that cit was important. Steel and ceramic are used on the top side of the containment. Telsa 2013 you need to read the fire investigation report that found the aluminium plate that was the under-shield in the 2013 Telsa added to the battery fire. Between that fire and 2014 Telsa tested all kinds of different shield plates making sure in case of battery failure that the plate was not adding more fuel to the fire. Telsa in fact did a recall to remove the Aluminium under-shield plate and put in the titanium one. You don’t do a recall of the material works.

    Every bit of the paper work is on the public record if you know where to look. Of course Grece you are clueless.

  42. Grece says:

    Little ohm, you are not making any sense. Battery containment? Laptop fires? Plastic chassis?? Where do you get this information.

    Its readily apparent that you do understand anything, the titanium is a shield used in conjunction with high-grade ballistic aluminum so as to protect the battery from foreign object damage from driving.

    https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-adds-titanium-underbody-shield-and-aluminum-deflector-plates-model-s

  43. oiaohm says:

    But I will say one thing little ohm, you better inform all the laptop manufactures that magnesium chassis they are using, is not rated for that purpose.

    Grece laptops are not required to have battery containment. This is why laptop fires are so bad. The magnesium chassis in a laptop ends up burning.

    Think about it a laptops are allowed to have a full plastic chassis with no fire resistance. So this is just you being a complete idiot. Just because something is used in laptop does not mean it safe to use in car or aircraft with larger sized batteries.

    In fact that a laptop has no fire resistance requirement means laptop makers can do what ever they like and if as a consumer are foolish enough to buy there stuff it is consumer fault.

    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/179422-teslas-model-s-now-has-a-titanium-underbody-shield-to-reduce-risk-of-battery-fires-to-virtually-zero

    Tesla tried carbon fibre, aluminium and and magnesium for battery containment and all failed real world testing. This is partly why building Tesla was so expensive the amount of stuff that was destroyed in the process of finding what works.

    Grece go find the information on what has been done to protect the tesla battery so it not fire hazard and you will find a lot of things are forbin. The information from tesla goes into making a lot of the standards for using lithium ion batteries in aircraft. Also it not any grades of titanium either. Tesla destroyed a lot of Titanium alloy sheets in the process as well.

    Electra Meccanica the company that is a branch off of does not go and reinvent the wheel when someone else like Tesla has done all the experimental work.

  44. Grece says:

    and of course little ohm provides no citations…

    But I will say one thing little ohm, you better inform all the laptop manufactures that magnesium chassis they are using, is not rated for that purpose.

  45. oiaohm says:

    This titanium part is a one off, to garner attention. Aluminum or magnesium would have been a better choice, however magnesium is not compatible with laser sintering for obvious reasons.
    Grece this is being a idiot. Lithium-ion battery in core aircraft systems is contained in titanium. This is using a known crash rated material. Both Aluminium and Magnesium are not rated to contain Lithium-ion batteries. Both Aluminium and Magnesium can add fuel to an Lithium-ion battery fire.

    Ti64 is particular used because it does not contain Aluminum. Most titanium alloys contain Aluminum is not suitable for proper Lithium-ion battery containment.

    Carbon-fiber I don’t know of a single version of this that a Lithium battery fire will not light up.

    Please note for the Telsa to get road approved it was required to have a Titanium Ti64 battery shielding. Using anything other than Ti64 will delay approval into a lot of markets.

    Grece please go away and do some research on what is approved to be used around lithium batteries before posting suggestions like you did. Not a single material you talked about passes regulation.

  46. Kurkosdr says:

    I will wait to see them ship. The world is full of fancy EV prototypes that never left the prototype phase.

    Building prototype EV cars is easy, mass producing them at the promised price is hard.

  47. Grece wrote, “EM isn’t actually developing stuff, Precision ADM designed the part in question. To state otherwise is disingenuous.”

    Whoever designed it was paid by EM. QED. What does it matter who that guy’s employer was? EM specified the part. Those other guys built it.

  48. Grece says:

    EM isn’t actually developing stuff, Precision ADM designed the part in question. To state otherwise is disingenuous. Now if EM owned a 3D printer and built it themselves, then that might be something. However, that is NOT the case here.

    Never said that the Solo is too expensive in my previous comment, I stated that titanium is too expensive to be used for a battery box component. If weight is such a concern, magnesium or carbon-fiber would have been the better choice.

    If Jerry Kroll is concerned over titanium melting point to save from a battery deflagration, then there are some serious issues waiting around the corner.

  49. Grece, unable to accept that EM is actually developing stuff, wrote,“This titanium part is a one off, to garner attention.
     
    This has nothing to do with Electra Meccanica Vehicles Corp., this was just a concept piece to garner attention, to have something to blog about and to possibly attract funding, nothing more.
     
    Titanium is too expensive to used for a battery box, aluminum would more then suffice.”

    Chuckle. He also argues that the Solo is too expensive. He should make up his mind based on reason rather than emotion… The Solo was originally planned to be 1000 pounds. It’s now up to 1380 pounds. Weight matters, for range on a charge in hilly country or in city (stop and go) driving. At $20K, they probably have room for some titanium. Whether or not this 3D-printed part is a one off or just a prototype rather than a production part, it shows EM is thoughtful and not just taking the line of least resistance to the goal of a mass-produced electric commuter’s car. Titanium also has a much higher melting point than aluminium so this could be better for retaining the batteries in some kind of conflagration.

  50. Grece says:

    This titanium part is a one off, to garner attention. Aluminum or magnesium would have been a better choice, however magnesium is not compatible with laser sintering for obvious reasons.

    The Metal Additive Manufacturing Demonstration Program is delivered by Canada Makes through funding by NRC-IRAP. The program is designed to help Canadian industries increase awareness and assist in understanding the advantages of the metal additive manufacturing (AM) technology.

    This has nothing to do with Electra Meccanica Vehicles Corp., this was just a concept piece to garner attention, to have something to blog about and to possibly attract funding, nothing more.

    Titanium is too expensive to used for a battery box, aluminum would more then suffice. If Electra Meccanica Vehicles Corp wanted to impress people, they could have used something like amorphous metal for said battery box.

    3D printing of metals have been out for what twenty plus years and did not become popular until the patents ran out. What I did find interesting, was the mention about 3D printing with carbon-fiber. Now that would have been the best choice as a material for a battery box.

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