GNU/Linux Now Accepted

“It turned out he runs Ubuntu. He’s an amateur photographer, and is proficient with GIMP and darktable.
 
“Let me ask you something,” he said. “Do you ever install apps from a terminal? I don’t know if it’s just me, but that way seems a lot quicker.”
 
My how times have changed. Everyday people are running Linux in the rural South.”
 
See Back Yard Linux
I don’t know much about Southern USA, but in Canada I taught in many remote schools in the North and over a decade or so, it became unsurprising to find one or more students in my classes who had experienced desktop GNU/Linux. They may not have known much about it but they weren’t put off by it. It just worked for them. Usually, they had been in a big city school somewhere and brought the knowledge back with them. That familiarity helped ease student populations to accept GNU/Linux.

A desktop OS is a tool to many people. Pick it up and use it. It just works. It worked for me and my students the first time I tried it so many years ago and it’s still working today, managing my hardware my way. I recommend Debian GNU/Linux. Try it. You’ll like it.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in Linux in Education, Teaching, technology and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

47 Responses to GNU/Linux Now Accepted

  1. oiaohm says:

    DrLoser do remember the French and Malaysian government Linux desktop deployments between request and new machine deployment is 5 days max. So the 2 and half years of Munich at times shows critical failure not directly linked to Linux Desktop usage. Is Munich IT allocations magically going to get bigger or the paper work to approve new systems get more streamlined.

    Why because changing to windows 10 they still might have 2 and half years to get new machines deployed. There are lots of thing wrong at Munich that have nothing to-do with Linux Desktop.

  2. The Wiz wrote, “Enterprise Line of Business applications like a Peoplesoft or SAP only officially support a limited number of “back end” databases.”

    Most people don’t work in big businesses and don’t care what the big guys use. They want stuff that works for them. Plenty of big businesses use PostgeSQL however. There are many other options in the marketplace. e.g. SysforeHRMS works on PostgreSQL.

  3. oiaohm says:

    http://maxdb.sap.com/
    SAP preferred database is their own.
    Peoplesoft is Oracle.
    http://www.oracle.com/us/support/licensecodes/peoplesoft-enterprise/psft-ent-keys-by-db-161936.html

    Wizard Emeritus so quote one that is not doing to sell you a database with that. Range of databases those one support goes way up.

    2) For older PCs going back to, say, Windows 7, request a price for an OS update.
    Depends on the machine some Windows 7 machines motherboards don’t have drivers for Windows 10 for critical things like cpu fan controller. So install OS update kill machine.

    3) For anything else … leave it as it is. Fifteen year old tech is fifteen year old tech.

    So leave half the network alone. Some how you plan does not work that well.

  4. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “No product or company is indispensable.”

    Perhaps not, but from experience I can tell you that if Munich is running any of the standard Enterprise Line of Business appplications that would be needed to run the city, that the odds are very good that a commercial database like Oracle will be required. This is because Enterprise Line of Business applications like a Peoplesoft or SAP only officially support a limited number of “back end” databases.

    That’s the way it works in the real world, Robert Pogson. Calling the statement made a lie only shows how little you understand about real world requirements for some aspects of enterprise IT.

  5. dougman wrote, “What a POS. You would be better off using a Chromebook as a thin client.”

    I don’t use it as a thin client. Haven’t for years. Chromebooks weren’t invented when I bought it.

  6. dougman says:

    What a POS. You would be better off using a Chromebook as a thin client.

  7. dougman wrote, “What model Devonit thin client??”

    6040B/LT 210 They are very old and are being retired. They aren’t much use for anything now that a virtual machine can’t do. Too little RAM. 100mbits/s. Limited screen resolution by modern standards. Too much heat produced. I might use the cases to mount some Odroid-C2s or such.

  8. dougman says:

    What model Devonit thin client??

  9. Ivan says:

    In a universe where TLW relaxes in my recliner watches TV and fiddles around with FaceBook, YouTube and celebrates Trumpism… 🙁 She has a smartphone at hand as a backup.

    So you feel that what your wife does is not important? She must be a saint for putting up with that borderline abusive attitude.

  10. DrLoser says:

    The notebook is not mission-critical.

    By your fiat, let it be so.

    And back we are at Munich, where your preferred solution appears to be to allow all 20,000 office workers recline on a naugahyde La-Z-Person-Of-Whichever-Gender whilst munching blutwurst and liebkuchen and juggling between a totally borked notepad without shared files or WiFi, and a hand-held Chinese knock-off Samsung phone with a 5×7 lo-fi screen.

    Yes, that should work for yer average 100 page legal document. I cannot see why I ever thought it might be a problem.

  11. DrLoser says:

    DrLoser wrote, “many requirements can only be met by the products of these manufacturers”.

    That’s a lie. Repeating it doesn’t make it true.

    And asserting that this is something that I wrote, and allowing your readers to infer that it is my opinion, is also a lie, Robert. Of course, you didn’t read your own cite past the first paragraph, so you probably didn’t spot the source of my quote … but it is common courtesy to acknowledge that your respondent is actually quoting somebody else.

    I don’t imagine that you will apologise for calling me a liar, of course. It’s not your style. Perhaps you could make amends by amusing us all and writing a stern letter of complaint to the actual authors of this quote?

  12. Ivan wrote, “In what universe is that not serious?”

    In a universe where TLW relaxes in my recliner watches TV and fiddles around with FaceBook, YouTube and celebrates Trumpism… 🙁 She has a smartphone at hand as a backup. She does some serious work on the table sometimes but usually does that in her office. She’s always got access to her files one way or another. The notebook is not mission-critical.

  13. DrLoser says:

    WiFi and shared storage does work automatically on her present notebook but it’s not that reliable.

    Or, in human-speak, neither WiFi nor shared storage work automatically on TLW’s present notebook, because it’s not that reliable.

    Really, Pog. What universe do you live in?

    I’m omitting the part where the lack of reliability is solely due to your decades-long evident inability to sysadmin anything properly, because things like crontab and rc files don’t really fall into the category of “sysadmin.”

    Obviously. You’re in the clear on that one.

  14. Ivan says:

    About once a week the machine gets in a state where the file-system is not available and she can’t login. It’s not a serious matter

    In what universe is that not serious?

  15. Deaf Spy wrote, “Accessing files on a shared network storage is not thin-client.”

    I know that. Everyone knows that. Why do you write that? TLW used a Devonit thin client for years. Her files, applications, processes and sessions were all on Beast. That is thin client. She’s not using thin client at the moment because the demand for RAM grew to be excessive lately. The new server will have four times as much RAM. Then thin client will be feasible again.

    WiFi and shared storage does work automatically on her present notebook but it’s not that reliable. About once a week the machine gets in a state where the file-system is not available and she can’t login. It’s not a serious matter or I would have found a fix. I’m always home. I do the mounts manually and it works again. Why those mounts don’t work automatically appears to be a glitch in systemd. It knows the network and file shares are needed but doesn’t do its job. I can certainly replace systemd and have that working again but it’s not worth the effort so far. I can probably waste some hours figuring out what’s wrong with systemd but haven’t found that worth the effort so far. I could also move part of her file-system to the notebook just enough so she could login and access her data after logging in and the desktop system made the wireless connection and mounted the files. I don’t mind a little typing once in a while. TLW at least finds me useful…

  16. Deaf Spy says:

    TLW has used a thin client for years when we moved her files from a failing dual-core machine to Beast.

    Accessing files on a shared network storage is not thin-client.

    There is no insurmountable problem except …

    Except that something as trivial as WiFi and shared storage mapping doesn’t work automatically. Ridiculous.

  17. Deaf Spy wrote, “if you can’t do something that simple, how dare you advocate what others should and can use?
     
    You can’t persuade your wife to use thin-clients. You can’t persuade her to throw away Intel and idling cores that waste so much energy.”

    TLW has used a thin client for years when we moved her files from a failing dual-core machine to Beast. It was a few years at least. She had no problem getting the job done. I had a problem with her using my RAM. Hence Odroid-C2 came along. RAM was the only reason for the switch. Beast had only 4gB DDR2. We will be upgrading so thin client mode will be available again.

    The issue of mounting her shares is a mystery. The identical commands issued from a crontab don’t do what they do from a terminal. Systemd is the difference. She cares nothing about who made the cores she runs on. She doesn’t use the Atom in the living room. It’s just too damned slow, so she uses an Intel-based notebook. Big deal. The Atom will be replaced with an Odroid-C2 sooner or later. The holdup is the availability of an ARMed server-board for Beast and a 32-bit x86 server for printing to a legacy Xerox printer. There is no insurmountable problem except between Deaf Spy’s ears.

  18. Deaf Spy says:

    Neither will Munich’s when they use PostgreSQL instead of Oracle

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Munich still can’t translate their MSO templates to LO, let alone rewrite all PL/SQL code into PLpg/SQL. Clearly, Robert has seen Oracle only on their website.

    TLW’s notebook hesitates to connect wirelessly and mount her NFS shares. … I can’t get it done from a crontab.

    Robert, if you can’t do something that simple, how dare you advocate what others should and can use?

    You can’t persuade your wife to use thin-clients. You can’t persuade her to throw away Intel and idling cores that waste so much energy. You can’t get her environment to work properly. Yet you have the temerity to preach your views on how IT should be done.

    You’re a laugh.

  19. DrLoser wrote, “many requirements can only be met by the products of these manufacturers”.

    That’s a lie. Repeating it doesn’t make it true. No product or company is indispensable. Do you really think that the world would come to an end if SAP or Oracle and all their products suddenly vanished? No. There would be disruption but life as we know it would go on. My PCs didn’t die when I installed GNU/Linux on them. Neither will Munich’s when they use PostgreSQL instead of Oracle. There are also many alternative products than SAP’s. Proof: SAP has 335000 customers. What are all the rest of humanity doing without them? Very well, thank you very much. QED.

  20. DrLoser wrote, “how is systemd going for you?”

    Well, in the whole system there’s only one machine that has a problem with systemd. TLW’s notebook hesitates to connect wirelessly and mount her NFS shares. I can do it manually. I can do it by a script. I can’t get it done from a crontab. I can’t get systemd to do it on its own. Once it’s connected and her files are mounted she’s good for days but if she shuts it down it doesn’t come back automatically. Minor glitch, but it’s on systemd, because I’ve done all the right things except ban systemd from that machine. That’s still an option…

  21. DrLoser wrote, “Job done.”

    Not by a long shot. I bet the project will require a new network, new servers, new PCs, new licences for lots of things and the price will be grand. Oh, don’t forget retraining and creation of accounts… There’s likely a way to automate creation of accounts from LDAP or whatever Limux was using but they might have to hire Wiz to do that. I remember seeing my predecessor at one school spending three days setting up accounts on Lose 2K by typing and clicking for hundreds of students and a couple dozen staff. I doubt “10” uses ext4 or whatever Limux used… so they’ll have to create/allocate/partition storage too with all those permissions. I’m sure one of M$’s “partners” can run up quite a tab helping them out. I bet that new mayor has a lot of shares in M$ or the “partner”.

  22. DrLoser wrote, “Pogson is nothing more than a serial loser”.

    My banker loves me as does TLW and the kids. I count that as a success. I’ve done everything I wanted to do in life more or less. I don’t see that as failure. I still have a few things to do yet. Just watch this space… One thing is sure. When Trump and I are dead, we’ll both be equally wealthy, although my final resting place might be a fireplace-mantel in the home of some relative rather than Florida or NYC.

  23. DrLoser says:

    The lifecycle of the operating systems on client PCs is very long, with the rollout of new clients taking up to two-and-a-half years.

    Lovely.

    Oh, so professional.

    Almost Third World professional.

  24. DrLoser says:

    Robert, let me help you by emphasizing the important pieces of text you obviously missed

    Don’t be partisan when it comes to Pogson’s abject failures and “false truths,” Deaf Spy. You may have noticed his constant harping on about President Donald Trump.

    It’s just pure envy. The two are obverse sides of the same coin, using the same techniques. The difference is that Trump has been a success all his life, and that Pogson is nothing more than a serial loser.

  25. DrLoser says:

    Buuuuut … I live to serve.

    OK, let’s imagine how one would transition between LiMux and Windows 10. Here’s a brief sketch.

    1) For recently bought PCs with Windows 10 available, restore Windows 10.
    2) For older PCs going back to, say, Windows 7, request a price for an OS update. I’m relatively sure that M$ would offer it at a bargain rate.
    3) For anything else … leave it as it is. Fifteen year old tech is fifteen year old tech.
    4) What else does LiMux have to offer? Ah, the fabled Templates!. Which, as far as I can see, is the only thing that differentiates LiMux from stock Ubuntu.
    4a) Hire a bunch of Indian programmers (could be Vietnamese or even Russian, doesn’t matter) to port them to Microsoft Office.
    4b) Alternatively, and where this is problematical, just use Libre on Windows.

    Job done, you ancient fool. Job done.

  26. DrLoser says:

    And while we’re at it, Robert, how is systemd going for you? And has the world come to a premature end through the nefarious intentions of UEFI?

    Seems to me that you’re not so much a prophet preaching in the wilderness, so much as an utterly ignorant wannabe prophet totally ignored by the wilderness.

    Even being a despised cretin might be preferable.

  27. DrLoser says:

    In the interests of balance, here, and admitting that there are certain areas of the world that object to “yet another foreign OS,” I should give credit to North Korea’s Red Star Linux program.

    It comes with a built-in government snoop program, but hey, anybody with passable skills in Pascal should be up to the task of disabling it.

  28. DrLoser says:

    Oh dear.

    Contrary to Munich’s stated goal of freedom from proprietary software, the POR representative says the city of Munich “is still dependent on Microsoft, Oracle, SAP, etc., since many requirements can only be met by the products of these manufacturers”. Aspects of these proprietary systems are incompatible with LiMux, according to POR, citing the council’s SAP security system, and errors in how PDFs are displayed by the open-source viewing software. Another department describes the use of Windows as being “mandatory in many areas of the city of Munich, whereas Limux clients are not”.

    Never mind, Robert. Your Reality May Differ. (You swivel-eyed ancient relic.)

  29. DrLoser says:

    Meanwhile, nitwit vs VMware is not going well for you. Not going well at all.

  30. DrLoser says:

    Munich spent millions training folks to use GNU/Linux. It will be interesting to see what the taxpayers think of spending that money again.

    Here’s a simple spelling chant for you, O four year old one.

    L. O. C. K. O. U. T.

    Cute strategy, innit? Except that Linux on the desktop is so horribly borked, it’s actually worth treating those millions as a sunk cost.

  31. DrLoser says:

    After years of using GNU/Linux that is the new normal for users and they may well resist going to yet another foreign OS.

    Get real, old man. There is no such thing as the “new normal.”

    Not only are “users” unlikely to resist … and what is with this “yet another foreign,” eh? … but they are likely to welcome a return to what every other municipal drone sees as “normality.”

    Such an attitude may, or may not, be palatable to you. But you’d better get used to it soon.

    Vienna … Freiburg … Munchen … Can you spot the pattern? Funny how it’s always a German speaking municipality that ushers the neckbeard dingbats into their inner sanctum, and then belatedly realises that the neckbeards are not remotely up to scratch.

  32. The Wiz wrote, “AT this point, there is probably so much animus towards LiMux that LiMux will remain only as long as it takes to execute the transition back to a windows based desktop.”

    Unlikely. After years of using GNU/Linux that is the new normal for users and they may well resist going to yet another foreign OS. These folks may well not own their own TOOS-PCs and use smartphones for stuff at home so “7” or “10” will be equally foreign. Munich spent millions training folks to use GNU/Linux. It will be interesting to see what the taxpayers think of spending that money again. Remember, those folks moved from NT4 to GNU/Linux instead of XP. There is a lot of difference between XP and “10” and M$’s modern version of their office suite will be just as strange. Expect friction if they don’t drop the silliness of throwing more money out the window.

  33. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “GNU/Linux desktops still have a role to play, even in Munich.”

    LiMux is probably not long for Munich Robert Pogson. The Limux debacle was kept alive for too long by the former after it should have been scrapped by the former mayor AT this point, there is probably so much animus towards LiMux that LiMux will remain only as long as it takes to execute the transition back to a windows based desktop.

  34. dougman wrote, “The world has moved on from Linux desktops, thin-clients and ARM servers.”

    Yep, they are using Android/Linux smartphones, a lot. GNU/Linux desktops still have a role to play, even in Munich. You will notice even the proponents of TOOS in Munich are not talking about rolling out TOOS this year but “by 2020”. They can’t go back to the “NT” configuration they used previously, so they’re going to have to reinvent the wheel, again. That costs a lot of time and money. These yo-yos will add up the costs and decide to stick with GNU/Linux. It’s much easier to fix how they may have messed up with GNU/Linux than to change the OS yet again. Even the proponents are talking about going web-applications all the way. That can be done with GNU/Linux very nicely.

  35. dougman says:

    Pogson/Oiaohm, a match that has become outdated. The world has moved on from Linux desktops, thin-clients and ARM servers.

  36. Deaf Spy says:

    My source: 2017.
    Robert’s: 2012.

    You are just obsolete, Robert. 🙂

  37. Deaf Spy wrote, “Go on, Robert, keep rejecting the reality.”

    Get your head out of your echo-chamber: “The amount of complaints with the service team has not risen with the increased number of LiMux workplaces, but even slightly decreased.”

    See Munich mayor says switch to Linux saved money, reduced complaints

    So, Deaf Spy’s argument doesn’t scale as well as GNU/Linux.

  38. Deaf Spy says:

    LO has worked from day one…. Blah-blah… Munich saved a bundle…Blah-blah…

    says Robert, who is 9000 kilometers from Munich.

    Users, who work with LiMux, on the other hand, say:
    the efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces has decreased noticeably” – referencing crashes, display and printing errors.”

    Go on, Robert, keep rejecting the reality.

  39. Deaf Spy wrote, “FLOSS, represented by LO and Thunderbird, fell behind, hopelessly behind to competition, to the point of having no chance to catch up.”

    Nonsense. LO has worked from day one. Open Office worked from the first year. Being a point behind on release has very little effect on productivity.

    Further,

    Switching to open-source: €23 million
    Upgrading to/licensing Windows 7 & Microsoft Office: €34 million (estimated)

    Munich saved a bundle by switching and there never was any concern about productivity. FLOSS worked for them.

  40. Deaf Spy says:

    The study done by Munich refutes that.

    Robert, let me help you by emphasizing the important pieces of text you obviously missed:

    “Then a report commissioned by the council noted:
    The city’s human resources department (POR) is particularly critical of LiMux, saying that since 2006 when the POR started using LiMux and OpenOffice, later switching to LibreOffice, that “the efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces has decreased noticeably” – referencing crashes, display and printing errors.”

    Then, of course, Robert and the like said:
    “Critics claim that the report which condemned Limux, the council’s own flavour of Linux, was written by Microsoft partner Accenture…”

    And then the reality:
    “Councillor Anne Hübner, IT spokeswoman for the SPD parliamentary group, however notes that it was simply common sense:
    “At the moment in many cases it just takes far too long and costs far too much for the city to implement software that’s available as standard on the market.”

    You see, Robert. The sad truth is that FLOSS, represented by LO and Thunderbird, fell behind, hopelessly behind to competition, to the point of having no chance to catch up.

    LO will remain a nice free package for users with low requirements. Everyone else will just use MSO.

  41. Deaf Spy wrote, “certainly LiMux doesn’t work for Munich”.

    The study done by Munich refutes that. The study done by M$ and “partner” supports that. Do the maths.

  42. Deaf Spy says:

    Well, certainly LiMux doesn’t work for Munich. Can’t you realize that no matter how much preaching you do, you can’t change this simple fact:
    the efficiency and productivity of the POR-supported workplaces has decreased noticeably

    Unless you go to Munich and offer help to improve the situation there, you’re only blabbering.

  43. ram says:

    Well certainly Linux works for my company. It also seems to work for just about every:
    biomedical engineering
    bioinfomatics
    pharmaceutical
    geophysical imaging
    petroleum engineering
    mining engineering
    movie studio
    media creation house

    in the world. What is there not to like?

  44. oiaohm says:

    The reality is Munich has always been quite small scale compared to French and Malaysian government desktop deployments.

    Really with Munich decided to reverse will at long last allow focus on those ones of scale that have had it right.

  45. Deaf Spy says:

    I am certainly willing to bet, that whatever schools you previously taught recess at, do not in anyway, continue to use Linux

    Now, this is a very interesting point.

    I am also willing to bet these schools moved on, tired of constant “crashes, display and printing errors”

  46. dougman says:

    “but in Canada I taught in many remote schools in the North and over a decade or so”

    Yes, you ONLY stated this hundreds of times already. Time to move the narrative along. The old line, “Crusty teacher discovers Linux, and frees Inuits the struggles of Microsoft” gets old. I am certainly willing to bet, that whatever schools you previously taught recess at, do not in anyway, continue to use Linux.

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