Russia Makes The Right Moves For The Wrong Reasons

“The State Duma, the lower house of Russia’s Federal Assembly, is working on a law to reduce government dependence on IBM, Microsoft and Oracle. According to Bloomberg, Russian government agencies will be restricted in buying proprietary software, and will have to prefer open source software instead.
 
This step further pushes proprietary vendors out of Russia. Russian companies are increasingly buying software from domestic providers like Diasoft and New Cloud technologies, or deploying open source packages like PostgreSQL and Linux, instead of purchasing licensed packages from companies like Oracle, Autodesk and Siemens.”
 
See Russia kicks out IBM, Microsoft and Oracle
I’ve long advocated that governments prefer FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) simply because it’s the right way to do IT, having total control of the software and saving on licensing fees. Russia made some moves to GNU/Linux years ago to avoid violations of copyright and recently to FLOSS generally because of economic sanctions. Those sanctions are halfhearted like a lot of what Obama did. They represent bans on travel and bank accounts by a list of Russians who likely would not travel to the West in any event. The sanctions could be much tougher, actually hurting Russia’s economy seriously. Perhaps the move to FLOSS is a preemptive measure.

Whatever the motivations, the end result will be the same, a ramping up of utilization of FLOSS in Russia, a good thing. It’s too bad Russia did not make these moves a decade or longer ago which would have caused the move to be completed by now. Too bad Putin isn’t as reasonable in his other dealings with the West.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
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52 Responses to Russia Makes The Right Moves For The Wrong Reasons

  1. oiaohm says:

    dougman In fact I do know how to do maths you don’t know how to read or use the numbers of course you add nothing because you are a idiot.

    There are a stack of different numbers showing stacks of different things.

  2. dougman says:

    Robert is a socialist hypocrite.

  3. Mats Hagglund says:

    Where were you when Barack Hussein Obama was bombing seven – seven! – Muslim countries? Where were you when he held Kill List meetings every Tuesday and went eenie-meenie-minie-moe on who he’d kill that week? When he chortled that he was “really good at killing folk”, where were you?

    When Obama’s drones blew up weddings and funerals, schools and ambulances, and killed brown skinned people (like this writer- like me) only because of the colour of their skin and their “military age”, why were you silent? When he armed and financed the zionist entity in Occupied Palestine as it was blasting Gaza to pieces in 2014 and building illegal settlements and an Apartheid Wall in the West Bank, where was your outrage?

    When Obama instigated and arranged a colour revolution in Ukraine, replacing a democratically elected government with a shambolic puppet regime of Ukranazis and oligarchs, what happened to your anger? When these Ukranazis were shelling and bombing towns in Donbass and burning alive protestors in Odessa, may I know where you were?

    Where were you when Killary Klingon, as Secretary of State, destroyed Libya and murdered Gaddafi, cackling maniacally “We came, we saw, he died” and posed with al Qaeda on the tarmac in Tripoli? When her jihadis stuffed black Libyans in cages, hacked them with machetes, destroyed their towns and raped and murdered young women who wouldn’t wear hijabs, where were you?

    What did you say when this same Killary sent arms from Libya to Syria to arm jihadi cannibal headhunters there? What was your response when she – and Obama – plotted to turn Syria into another destroyed wasteland like Libya? Why were your lips sealed when they almost started WWIII with Russia over al Qaeda in that country?

    Where did your outrage go when Obama armed, instigated and supported Saudi Barbaria’s (failing) war on Yemen , including a starvation blockade that has reduced a generation of Yemeni children to skeletons?

    You hate racism, but when Killary stole millions from Haiti, installed a coup regime in Honduras, and Obama deported Mexicans in record numbers, what happened to your anger?

    I would love to know what you were doing, too, when Killary devastated Serbia, creating the narcomafia pseudostate of Kosovo, whose handpicked thug-in-chief Hashim Thaçi traded human organs for profit. Did you protest about this at any point?

    I’m sure you’re all very earnest and very anti racist, so you should have no trouble answering my questions.

    Please do let me know.

  4. dougman says:

    Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.

    You need to learn how to use math, seriously! Your verbal diarrhea is tiring, for example.

    “23million paid….60 million 365 users…340million….280million….1.2 billion….400 million….120 million” Do you even know how to make sense out of all them numbers? I am willing to bet you cannot count fractions.

  5. oiaohm says:

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3099192/enterprise-applications/consumer-office-365-subscription-growth-slows.html
    http://www.windowscentral.com/there-are-now-12-billion-office-users-60-million-office-365-commercial-customers

    These two links give you two bits of key information. 1 there is only 23million paid for 365 subscriptions. But there are over 60 million 365 users. So this means only about 1/3 in fact pay. 2/3 find ways though the system to get it for free. This is why its absolutely pointless attempting to sell Libreoffice on cost because Microsoft Office free the majority of cases. When Microsoft says 365 commercial customers they are including the free copies they give away to students.

    Please note to use full android MS Office you have to be 365 user 340million- 60 that gives 280million at worst not paying.

    So 1.2 billion users paid would most likely only be 400 million users remember Libreoffice has 120 million confirmed paid and is growing. So Microsoft office in market is not as far in lead as a lot would think and from a profit making point of view a lot smaller than many would think. Please remember this is all without people illegally acquiring software.

    Now Microsoft need to keep on showing growth to share holders. The 70% growth you heard put around this year was not users but revenue growth caused by lifting the price on the 1/3 of the Microsoft customer base that pays.

    Subscription model allows Microsoft to keep on slowly raising prices and hopefully no one notices the price increases. Wait media have and are publishing about it. Subscriptions is about getting you over a barrel.

    This is the problem when people say open source is used by a lot of people who are just too cheep to pay. It completely overlooks that anyone who is too cheep to pay in most cases can get Microsoft Office and a lot of other Microsoft products for free legally or illegally. So there has to be another reason why people are choosing Libreoffice its not the dollars.

    There is a catch the 1/3 with Microsoft Office who are having to pay are those who are using it for serous things like work where Microsoft truly can hold you over a barrel. This is what makes Microsoft Office 365 so questionable as a option.

    Remember if you get Microsoft Office 2016 now you are meant to be able to use it until 2020. 99 dollars a year over 3 years is 300 dollars and Microsoft is sneaking the subscription rate up.

    https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/productlicensing/Pages/office-2016-licensing-packaging.aspx

    Also its apple and oranges. USD $8.33 Microsoft Office 365 price is only of Microsoft Office 365 that you are not meant to use for anything commercial. Non-commercial use rights limitation is missed a lot.

    So you want to use Microsoft office in business “Office Home and Business 2016” is your min.

    There are more expensive plans of Microsoft Office 365 for those wanting to use it for business. No promise that Microsoft will not increase the price next year.

    Libreoffice even the free version is licensed for commercial usage.

  6. dougman wrote, “USD $8.33 is a cup of coffee”.

    The value here is $0. I don’t know anyone who drinks coffee. Certainly there is no one in my house.

  7. dougman says:

    Fifi, after 724 words you still are not making any sense. Perhaps you should try to expound your theory in a more general sense. Perhaps 1500 words would be far more conducive.

    Scratch that, try explaining yourself in 2500 words or more. Help us understand your dissertation.

  8. oiaohm says:

    Reality for me is that LibreOffice is simply not as good as what I have now at the cost of less than one fast food meal per month. It is also not worth the disruption to my working habits just to save a couple of bucks per month.
    Might be true for you now.
    And you get what you pay for.
    That is not exactly true.
    http://zolnaitamas.blogspot.com.au/2016/11/new-pivot-table-function-median.html

    People pay for Microsoft office and get there feature request ignored for over a decade.

    Data sovereignty since places are starting to take it serous has seen Office 365 growth stop. Next under 25 million subscribers is less than many of the products in the Microsoft grave yard of ended products.

    Finally Wizard Emeritus what promise do you have that Microsoft will not lift the price.
    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3011406/enterprise-applications/microsoft-jacks-price-of-top-tier-office-365-plan-by-59.html

    You are not paying attention at all Wizard Emeritus I wrote the 70% revenue increase Microsoft recorded with Microsoft 365 was not by increased sales but from increased pricing. Yes last year for the top plan of Office 365 it went up by 59%. Exactly why will Microsoft not jack the plan you are currently on up. You are only paying a monthly subscription with max of yearly terms.

    Not having Data sovereignty and Data independence means you are open to be trapped between rock and hard place as vendor increases prices and currency rate changes. Don’t say Microsoft is USA company don’t have to worry about that that is kinda forgetting most Microsoft software is not made in the USA.

    Wizard Emeritus are you sure you will have the 8.33 dollars per month every month as it increases?

    Robert, USD $8.33 is a cup of coffee. People spend way more on digital objects in video games, so a few bucks a month is NOTHING.
    dougman that does not compare and is invalid. You can skip having a video game or a cup of coffee for a few months if your budget is tight and it going to cause you no harm. Office suite not working because you cannot pay bill can cause you harm. Now if you budget is tight and you cannot access your documents for items you need to do that month you can end up defaulting on things and owning even more money.

    So office suite not working can cause cascading failure. Wizard Emeritus is it really going to cut it with a boss that you were unable to submit a report because you had failed to pay subscription and you don’t have the free cash at the moment to pay it. Unexpected excessive expenditure happens to everyone at the worst times.

    Basically none of Wizard Emeritus argument in fact holds ground.

    Libroffice you pay for support and you can decide to pay for support for a month and still access your data. The old bought out right Microsoft Office suite same thing you can pay support subscription and if required stop paying and not be stuffed. The new Microsoft 365 Office seams cheap but its really a trap.

    Even the Microsoft office on Android that is free at the moment is just another form of Microsoft Office starter we can bet that at some point Microsoft will increase it price as well. Remember if Microsoft removes Microsoft office free from google play how would you install it on a new android device.

    What is the price of Microsoft office 2016 home and student out right depending where you are between $100-150 and that is a 3 machine install. Difference you are not going to get caught in price change. It can work out spending less over life span of Microsoft Office buying it out right compared to subscribing while taking less risk.

    http://download.cnet.com/blog/download-blog/microsoft-office-2016-buy-vs-subscribe/
    Besides in September last year what Wizard Emeritus is talking about for $8.33 now was only $7. So a 1.33 price increase per month in a year does not sound that great.

    At $7 dollars Microsoft 365 office usage it made some sense at $8.33 you start paying as much as buying it out right and having to take the extra risk . So $8.33 for Microsoft office 365 is not really that cheap compared to full Microsoft office. Add another increase it will be worse.

    There is no way just on pricing would I be pushing Microsoft 365 as first option.

  9. dougman says:

    Robert, USD $8.33 is a cup of coffee. People spend way more on digital objects in video games, so a few bucks a month is NOTHING.

  10. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “FLOSS is a much better deal.”

    And you get what you pay for.

  11. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “The Wiz is accepting “divide and conquer” maths instead of looking at the big picture.”

    The big picture is that life costs Robert Pogson. The even bigger picture is that I’m not cheap like you are and I don’t believe that you get something for nothing.

    Reality for me is that LibreOffice is simply not as good as what I have now at the cost of less than one fast food meal per month. It is also not worth the disruption to my working habits just to save a couple of bucks per month.

  12. The Wiz wrote, “Office 365 licensing is so cheap that it makes it even less likely that anyone who knows Microsofts office suite is going to take up LibreOffice, just because of cost.”

    Well, folks who can do maths might.

    • 1 month USD $8.33
    • 1 year USD $99.96
    • 10 years USD $999.60
    • 40 years USD $3998.40
    • 60 years USD $5997.60

    That’s over the “useful” life of a person. Now, imagine a whole country of millions of people. A good useful highway, or a great museum, or even a small city could be built with such amounts. So, a case could be made that even as low as that price seems it’s too much. Then you could consider what a couple of hundred million users pay and you could think how wonderful LibreOffice would be if a tenth of that were invested in making LO even better instead of enriching M$… FLOSS is a much better deal.

    The Wiz is accepting “divide and conquer” maths instead of looking at the big picture.

  13. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus if your government is using Libreoffice for “data sovereignty” then demands you submit documents compatible then you cannot say no.”

    But my government does not do any such thing, so that solves that for me.

    “Wizard Emeritus mr FIFI stop highjacking the post with off topic. I have raised something very on topic to the post Robert is referring to.”

    Sir, you do not run this site, and you do not have any right to tell me or any poster what to do. And if y0u do not like being referred to as Fifi, I suggest that you consider stopping calling people names yourself.

    All of your irrelevant verbiage does nothing to change the fact that I stated. I can license Microsoft Office professional for $8.33US per month for up to 5 devices that I own via Office 365. And I said this in answer to Robert Pogsons own off-topic comment on the cost of Microsoft Office.

    The cost is a fact, you may not like that fact and you can try to talk your way around that fact, but its still stands. Office 365 licensing is so cheap that it makes it even less likely that anyone who knows Microsofts office suite is going to take up LibreOffice, just because of cost.

  14. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus if your government is using Libreoffice for “data sovereignty” then demands you submit documents compatible then you cannot say no.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collabora-deal-will-provide-savings-on-open-source-office-software

    Basically this is a start of a problem.

    If you do your research instead of claiming bullshit Wizard people Munich reason for going OpenOffice then Libreoffice was again “data sovereignty”.

    So depending on where you are might have absolutely no choice but to use Libreoffice like in the past you had absolutely no choice bar to use Microsoft Office in particular countries.

    The stall of MS Office 365 growth is funny it aligns with this “data sovereignty” thing coming up again.

    Wizard Emeritus many office suites have been more attractively priced than MS Office and got no market share. Becideds you put up the arguement that Libreoffice low price is not a sales point. Problem is that is not the sales point Libreoffice is using to out grow Microsoft in Office suite new market zones.

    Also “Russia kicks out IBM, Microsoft and Oracle” post Robert starts this topic off with go read
    https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/russia-kicks-out-ibm-microsoft-and-oracle

    Wizard Emeritus note first topic in it “Digital sovereignty” another way of writing data sovereignty. So if anyone is off topic here it you Wizard Emetitus.

    It about time you start considering the problems places starting to demand Digital/Data sovereignty mean of Microsoft product growth. Libreoffice is fine its deployment solutions are Data sovereignty compatible.

    Wizard Emeritus mr FIFI stop highjacking the post with off topic. I have raised something very on topic to the post Robert is referring to.

  15. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.”

    Fifi is attempting to hijack a conversation on the attractive pricing that Office 365 brings to individual desktop users by talking about “data sovereignty”. He structures is arguments to make it seem as if we will be “compelled” to use LibreOffice whether we like it or not.

    As I said “bullshit and mirrors”, but this is nothing new with Fifi.

  16. oiaohm says:

    Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.
    This is not your website you have no right to tell anyone to shut up dougman. Basically you don’t like losing.

    Also data sovereignty does apply to running Sharepoint. Its all about who controls updates.

    https://www.citrix.com/blogs/2016/05/26/using-windows-server-containers-with-xenserver-7-0/

    If you look around you will find different docker examples where windows containers are run under xen, kvm and so on basically sitting on Linux. Does not help that at the plug in play meets of Docker that Microsoft work loads are tested under Linux solutions and most Linux solutions are not testing under hyper-v.

    So the stable solution due to the plug and play meets will be windows on something Linux not Linux on something windows.

  17. dougman says:

    Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.

  18. dougman says:

    “They’ve done more than consider it…”

    Interesting, now people can dump Sharepoint and just a Wikipedia docker container running Linux on Windows server.

  19. oiaohm says:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/collabora-deal-will-provide-savings-on-open-source-office-software
    Actually Fifi is now trying to “win” the debate by attempting to say that one will be forced to use Libreoffice in the end due to his interpretation of some legal situation he googled up. It is of course all bullshit and mirrors that he has tried many times before.
    Wizard Emeritus sorry you are out of date and incompetent argument. The MS Office 365 sales and Google docs sales slow down with this deal.

    Like it or not the issue is data sovereignty.

    Wizard Emeritus is not something I just googled up. Data sovereignty is a very old thing just in recent years with the cloud people have forgot about it and now regulators and court cases are starting to catch up with it. Of course Microsoft could fix their current mess by releasing a private server edition of Microsoft Office.

    Getting done for breaking your countries privacy laws because you used a server in another country that allowed your data to be access without the right legal processes for your country being done is not particular fun. Historic examples is when people sent paper archives to other countries for storage before existence of the computers. So the law on data sovereignty is not really a question. It more when will the laws be enforced.

  20. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I know what Docker is, use it on my UNRAID NAS. Interesting that they are considering using it.”

    They’ve done more than consider it…

    https://blog.docker.com/2016/09/dockerforws2016/

  21. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.”

    Actually Fifi is now trying to “win” the debate by attempting to say that one will be forced to use Libreoffice in the end due to his interpretation of some legal situation he googled up. It is of course all bullshit and mirrors that he has tried many times before.

    I have learned to ignore it.

  22. dougman says:

    I know what Docker is, use it on my UNRAID NAS. Interesting that they are considering using it.

    Fifi, shutup. You add nothing to the conversation.

  23. oiaohm says:

    1. Growth is always slowing down with time. This is valid for any product, any market. Office 365 is no exception.
    Deaf Spy this is not exactly true. Its stalled with the release of Libreoffice online. You can see Office 365 growth numbers stall aligned with production release of Libreoffice online because there is something Libreoffice online is offering that Office 365 is not.

    3. Office 365 is a very different model than old Office. It is a subscription, oh, wise man of the snowy North. These customer pay MS every year. With old Office, you pay once and forget, as most users skilled at least one version, and that is true for both home and corporate clients.
    True but this does cause a different problem. What happens when corporates have shock bad months and cannot afford to pay. Old office suite model they did not upgrade until there situation improved. So this change will create more people stuck at times so forcing them to use Libreoffice. The change to subscription is in Libreoffice favour. It also allows Microsoft to make more money out of a market they cannot grow any more to hide the fact they don’t have market growth in a big way any more.

    You can look all you want. the reality is that with Office 365 pricing there is less of a reason for someone who uses office to look at Libreoffice.
    Wizard Emeritus the problem is not price but legal why Office 365 and google docs growth has stalled. The issue is data sovereignty. The laws that apply to cloud stored data is the country were the data is stored and the country of the company who data that is. Those can be in absolute conflict.

    So it does not matter how cheap or expensive Office 365 there are sections of the market where legally it cannot be used to provide an online office suite. Libreoffice online that you can install on your own servers or contract servers in your own country does not have the problem. Of course Microsoft providing a local server install option of Office365 would risk undermining their normal desktop sales.

    http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/tablet-decline-q2-2016/
    So android support interesting right tablet sales are declining. So Microsoft could have invested massive resources Android only to have it go down the drain.

    Libreoffice support companies have focused resources on the features they believed would be required long term. Long term local server or choice of service provider provided office suite is a feature that is not going to go away. Longer Microsoft fails to provide this the more market share Microsoft will bleed to Libreoffice.

    Basically anyone who is too stubborn to use Libreoffice and demand to use Microsoft Office absolutely should be fired because in case of something requiring absolute data sovereignty they are not going to willing to use the right software.

    If there is some feature about MS Office you like you need to put into a program like Libreoffice than can provide data sovereignty.

    How hard would it be for M$ to take the Linux Kernel and build Windows on top of it? Its probably already been done, in some back room. Just awaiting the right chance to arise.
    dougman been attempted out side microsoft http://www.longene.org/en/develop.php
    Not as easy as it first looks. The big thing is how many things windows and linux do massively differently. Yes bash on windows by Microsoft is suffering from the reverse set of problems.

  24. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “How hard would it be for M$ to take the Linux Kernel and build Windows on top of it? Its probably already been done, in some back room. Just awaiting the right chance to arise.”

    Perhaps. But a IMHO better opportunity has arisen in the form of Docker

    https://www.docker.com/what-docker

    Microsoft has already implemented the docker client and is dockerizing their own apps. Hyper-V 2016 knows about dockerized applications. all Microsoft has to do it implement the docker API and it can run both Linux and windows workloads.

  25. dougman says:

    “your extremely limited understanding of how either the NT Kernel or the Linux Kernel works suggests that your supposition is total bollocks.”

    Did I even remotely suggest that I did? NOPE.

    How hard would it be for M$ to take the Linux Kernel and build Windows on top of it? Its probably already been done, in some back room. Just awaiting the right chance to arise.

  26. DrLoser says:

    I suspect Windows will go this route as well, and that M$ will build Windows on a Linux kernel.

    No offence, Dougie, but your High School Diploma and your extremely limited understanding of how either the NT Kernel or the Linux Kernel works suggests that your supposition is total bollocks.

  27. dougman says:

    I do know M$ is building data-centers like gangbusters. Their subscription model will pay out in the long run. I suspect Windows will go this route as well, and that M$ will build Windows on a Linux kernel.

  28. Deaf Spy says:

    When I first read that number, I thought it was for the previous quarter or even a whole year, but, no, that’s for all time… Dead cats bounce…

    Robert, Robert… With all your education I expected you to be better in Math… Actually, I am wrong. What it takes in analytical thinking, something that education is unlikely to give one.

    You miss several rather points. I will write them as a numbered lists. My studies of designing user interfaces for reading-comprehension-challenged people showed that numbered and bulleted lists are easier to understand.

    1. Growth is always slowing down with time. This is valid for any product, any market. Office 365 is no exception.

    2. Growth as percentage cannot stay the same, unless the sales in numbers grow dramatically as well, which is not sustainable. If MS add 10 million users / year, growth in % will be a steady decrease, but income as $$$ will keep going up.

    3. Office 365 is a very different model than old Office. It is a subscription, oh, wise man of the snowy North. These customer pay MS every year. With old Office, you pay once and forget, as most users skilled at least one version, and that is true for both home and corporate clients.

    It’s a couple of $billion per annum but still sad compared to the Good Old Days of monopoly when more than that was routine per quarter.

    Now this is a bizarre statement, considering the MS is enjoying a strong financial growth. Would you mind sharing the data that leads you to this peculiar conclusion, Robert?

  29. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus why don’t we in fact look at how many subscriptions…”

    You can look all you want. the reality is that with Office 365 pricing there is less of a reason for someone who uses office to look at Libreoffice.

  30. oiaohm wrote, “why don’t we in fact look at how many subscriptions are in fact in Office 365”.

    “The subscription increase also was small in absolute terms: Microsoft added approximately 900,000 to the rolls during the June quarter, down from 2.8 million the year before and also less than the 1.6 million accumulated in 2016’s March quarter.”

    That’s amazing. When I first read that number, I thought it was for the previous quarter or even a whole year, but, no, that’s for all time… Dead cats bounce… Convert that to revenue at the Wiz’s rates… It’s a couple of $billion per annum but still sad compared to the Good Old Days of monopoly when more than that was routine per quarter.

  31. oiaohm says:

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3099192/enterprise-applications/consumer-office-365-subscription-growth-slows.html

    Wizard Emeritus why don’t we in fact look at how many subscriptions are in fact in Office 365. There is 23.1 million subscriptions total. Libreoffice put 20 million new paying in last 12 months. Microsoft has a 70% increase in Office 365 revenue. This is not caused by increasing clients but people with free access to Office 365 now starting to pay.

    There is a big difference between revenue growth and subscription growth. Microsoft Office 365 appears to already hit saturation point in subscription growth. Libreoffice has not hit saturation point in subscription growth.

    So Deafspy growth numbers are mostly bogus the growth days of Office 365 are over.

    One of Libreoffice biggest growth areas is direct competition to online MS Office.
    https://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2016-11-17-libreoffice-online.pdf

    The fact Libreoffice is not great on Android yet is giving Microsoft some breathing room. But most Microsoft Office installs on Android are not paying Microsoft either.

  32. DrLoser says:

    I have been using GNUmeric for SVG charts so I hadn’t noticed til today that sums and averages of selections are automatically generated.

    Cor Blimey mate, I’m impressed! What a totally boffo and truly unique feature of a spread-sheet!

    It’s so advanced, it’s like Nuclear Physics! (Not the cloud chamber stuff you mucked around with — the real stuff!)

    Beats me how MS Office took so long to acquire this cynosure of all eyes feature!

    Shame Calc still looks and works like crap, though.

  33. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “The Wiz is always harping about M$’s support. In all my years of using TOOS, I had zero support from M$. … (bla, bla, bla)

    Your increasingly ancient experiences are irrelevant. For anyone who wants a desktop office package for multiple computers. Office 365 is quite affordable. For anyone who wishes to continue to maintain their Microsoft software, Office 365 is a great deal.

    IMHO there is now even less of a reason to have to look at “good enough” FOSS like LibreOffice. And the 70% annual growth in Office 365 sales that Deaf Syp reports illustrates that fact.

  34. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus its about the same cost for Libreoffice with commercial support.”

    My point in bringing this up was to skewer Robert Pogsons Continual harping on the Cost of Microsoft Office as a major issue. $8.33US a month for an indiviual to cover up to 5 devices, with support, with cloud space is not a great cost. Unless you are an inveterate cheapskate like Robert Pogson.

    For someone like me there is zero reason to even consider LibreOffice.

    Once again, your wall of text is irrelevant.

  35. Deaf Spy says:

    Gosh, you must be desperate to compare downloads with actual users. And, Robert, you still fail to point out a business, not a state-funded institution.

    Your posts are always in the chain: FLOSS works for people -> municipalities, middle-of-nowhere schools, police -> LO downloads -> FLOSS works for people.

    At the meanwhile, Office 365 scores 70% yearly growth, and works even on Android.

  36. oiaohm says:

    Robert Pogson in fact you state my problem. You hand over a lot of cash to Microsoft for the right to use the software but get very little in way of official support.

    This is the problem people always make out that hey per Month Microsoft does not cost much. Reality that amount you are spending per month on Microsoft spending the same amount on open source commercial you will be getting proper support for that money.

    There is some major issues with Microsoft pricing model. There is also some major structural problems caused by the closed source model.

    Lets take libreoffice support it shows a big difference. Each support group has developers who can directly work on the Libreoffice code base. So you have decentralised access to developers and you are able to get to talk to the developers.

    Ok name the top 10 developers of Microsoft Office? then does money you have paid to Microsoft ever given you the right to have a question about a problem with the program answered straight by a developer? You will find you have to pay quite a lot to get product developer access with Microsoft.

    This should start you thinking there is a major difference here. Having software closed source developed causes a set of problems just a different set to having software open source developed.

    The big thing that annoys people who have been paying for open source software when they go to closed source software is finding they are paying lots of money and getting no privileges for it bar being legally allowed to use the software.

  37. oiaohm wrote, “Wizard Emeritus its about the same cost for Libreoffice with commercial support.”

    The Wiz is always harping about M$’s support. In all my years of using TOOS, I had zero support from M$. In fact they got in my way every time they could: restricting my use of our hardware to best advantage through the EULA, complicating backups, burying any documentation in periodically-changing buzz-words, updating at 0600 IN THEIR TIME-ZONE! causing me to skip lunch to update the software or fear collapse of the whole fleet through some zero-day failure, slowing down, re-re-rebooting,… There was no end to the trouble they caused me. That’s not support. That’s terrorism. At the last place I worked, the best machine in the place was identical to all the others except it was still on SP1 and not on the web. It ran 60% of the processes and had zero malware or need to re-re-reboot. All the other machines upgraded to SP3 and with the latest anti-malware were constantly needing fixing. When I installed GNU/Linux the whole fleet behaved like that isolated machine, just as snappy on the first day as the last. I trebled the number of working machines there with GNU/Linux and the workload was far less than the original fleet with XP.

  38. oiaohm says:

    BTW – My cost for Full office 2016 for my three desktops and 2 tablets is $8.33 a month. This not even the cost of one meal of fast food at one of the local restaurants!
    Wizard Emeritus its about the same cost for Libreoffice with commercial support.

    Cornell.edu is an educational institutional, not a business. Try again.
    By tax law educational institutional is business. So saying not business is really just accepting that Microsoft feels free to draw lines. Please note educational institutions run all kinds of different sub businesses and it totally does not help you if you are a business near them and the educational institution decide to compete in your field of business and they are getting cheaper software.

    When you put this to the 70% yearly growth that Office 365 enjoys, the picture becomes rather sad for you, Robert. These numbers show people don’t want the free LO, but love to pay for MSO.
    Deaf Spy that does not in fact match facts. 20 million more paid for versions of Libreoffice last year I have already shown you those numbers. So people are paying for Libreoffice and MSO and there are groups using both not paying.

    Question is how much of that 70% yearly growth is the free versions of Office 365 handed out to students. Microsoft is not really providing clear numbers on how much is paid for and how much of the growth is stuff they have handed out for free.

    Libreoffice has doubled the number of countries is providing paid support in the last 12 months. So there is quite impressive growth going on with Libreoffice. Microsoft is fairly close to satatation point what means he only way is down the question is how far.

  39. The Wiz wrote, “I get all the benefits of a well supported commercial package”.

    LO is a well-supported commercial package. I happened to use its spreadsheet today planning my budget for 2017 and I noticed a feature I’ve wanted for ages is now present. LO.org has been reading my mind. I have been using GNUmeric for SVG charts so I hadn’t noticed til today that sums and averages of selections are automatically generated. So, LO is just about perfect for me and I get that for $0 per month, copy, acre…
    Businesses, schools, governments, organizations and individuals do use LO quite successfully and spend their money on other things. It’s a breech of fiduciary responsibility to throw money at M$. M$ doesn’t need it and a budget of any size can always benefit from moving money from one item to another. TLW is the heaviest user of spreadsheets here and I can’t remember her ever questioning its value. That works for me.

  40. Ivan says:

    Then there’s the lack of (malware, slowing down, built-in incompatibility, etc). GNU/Linux has huge advantages over TOOS and its applications.

    The largest botnets are all linux based, system slow downs are all in your head, and if you haven’t run into an incompatibility on linux you are lying through your dentures, Bob.

  41. Wizard Emeritus says:

    BTW – My cost for Full office 2016 for my three desktops and 2 tablets is $8.33 a month. This not even the cost of one meal of fast food at one of the local restaurants!

    And for that I get all the benefits of a well supported commercial package.

  42. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “That’s on the same page that offers MSO $free to students. Clearly, some people don’t love to pay M$ for an office suite.”

    Cornell.edu is an educational institutional, not a business. Try again.

  43. Deaf Spy, living up to his name, wrote, ” These numbers show people don’t want the free LO, but love to pay for MSO.”

    However,
    “LibreOffice has been downloaded 140 million times since the launch in January 2011. The office suite is deployed by large organizations in every continent, with the latest addition being the Lithuanian Police with over 8,000 desktops.”

    See LibreOffice 5.1.5 “still” announced, for enterprise class deployments

    and

    “There are other free alternatives to Microsoft Office that allow the ability to read, edit, and create documents in Microsoft Office formats. The links below are provided as a courtesy to the Cornell community, and do not represent an endorsement of the products.”

    That’s on the same page that offers MSO $free to students. Clearly, some people don’t love to pay M$ for an office suite.

  44. Deaf Spy says:

    Uh, the licence and prices are there for all to see.

    When you put this to the 70% yearly growth that Office 365 enjoys, the picture becomes rather sad for you, Robert. These numbers show people don’t want the free LO, but love to pay for MSO.

    You still have to bring some solid evidence to the table, Robert. So far you fail miserably.

  45. Deaf Spy wrote, “same lack of any evidence to support this hollow claim”.

    Uh, the licence and prices are there for all to see. Then there’s the lack of (malware, slowing down, built-in incompatibility, etc). GNU/Linux has huge advantages over TOOS and its applications.

  46. DrLoser says:

    Speaking of failed states, Robert, I notice that you haven’t been updating us on StatCounter for various exotic statelets that have seen a sudden surge of, say, ten or twenty people actively using FLOSS for their browser.

    I think we all miss those bulletins. Would you care to resume? Trans-Dniestr seems to be an opportune example.

  47. Deaf Spy says:

    Using FLOSS is just less of a hassle for everyone.

    Yeah, yeah, same old mantra, same lack of any evidence to support this hollow claim.

  48. DrLoser says:

    This “violations of copyright” thing, Robert.

    You are aware that the Russian Mafiosis (there are uncountably many) specialise in “violation of copyright,” aren’t you? And it’s not just Microsoft, Oracle, Apple et al. We (MiTek) have stopped allowing our Russian customers to use our desktop roof designing software directly, because somebody will just hack it. You’d think they’d just use all this wonderful FLOSS truss designing software, but oh no … hack, steal, call it what you will. Violation of copyright.

    Now, perhaps this doesn’t matter to you (although you have previously defended software copyright as against software patents).

    In which case, I imagine you won’t mind the same Russian Mafiosi hacking whatever software they can get their grubby little paws on (FLOSS or otherwise, it hardly matters) to steal whatever they can steal — and here I mean steal things of monetary value, such as credit cards.

    Never mind. One more Mafiosi state on the side of FLOSS. It’s all good. Chuckle.

  49. kurkosdr says:

    Even if the software is currently inferior, it won’t be for much longer if the Russians are really serious about it. They have more than the required skills domestically available to overcome any perceived shortcomings in whichever software they decide to adopt. Just you wait and see!

    Ahh… GNU/Linux. To the untrained eye it looks like 85% done, ’till the moment you take a look under the hood. For example, X.org looks like 85% done on the surface, but then you take a look under the hood in order to fix little problems like Vsync in videos not working, font scaling/aliasing issues, and bad power management and it’s like “eeewww! This thing would cost less to write from the start*” Same for PulseAudio and systemd.

    * known as Android and Enigma 2, too bad none of the are meant for the Desktop

  50. Deaf Spy wrote, “people will use inferior software so that Western companies don’t sell their software.
     
    Of course, common people will pirate Windows and Office for their homes.”

    Or not… I think M$ has that covered by now. How does one steal time on M$’s servers for a cloudy office suite? Either they pay for it or they don’t get the time. If M$ charges a legitimate customer for a thief’s usage, the legitimate customer just might notice… Repeat a million times over and M$ would have a real problem whether in Russia or elsewhere.

    No, this is not about using an inferior product, just one free of enslavement by M$. Using FLOSS is just less of a hassle for everyone.

  51. luvr says:

    @Deaf Spy:
    Even if the software is currently inferior, it won’t be for much longer if the Russians are really serious about it. They have more than the required skills domestically available to overcome any perceived shortcomings in whichever software they decide to adopt. Just you wait and see!

  52. Deaf Spy says:

    You simply don’t understand Russians, Robert.

    Perhaps the move to FLOSS is a preemptive measure.

    What Russians actually do is trying to punish the West by simply not buying. Just what they did already with their food embargo, which resulted in empty supermarkets and increased prices of food. In other words, Russian suffer to punish the West. People stay hungry so that Western companies don’t sell their goods. Now people will use inferior software so that Western companies don’t sell their software.

    Of course, common people will pirate Windows and Office for their homes.

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