Good and Great News

Sometimes new things are amazingly good and sometimes they are frightening. Yesterday TLW rode the Chinese roto-tiller. Afterwards she said, “That was fun!”. Now, that’s frightening. The machine frightens me and she barely knows how to steer… On the good side, I’ve added an outlink to Button Soup, a site mostly about food, with some coverage of my favourite fruit trees and actually making stuff from fruit you pick. It’s from Edmonton, a city just south of the great boreal forest zone, just like Winnipeg. Weather is similar despite it being in a province quite different from Manitoba.

TLW and I discussed selling/re-purposing the giant roto-tiller and buying something much easier to use/maintain. We found a good used machine on Kijiji. It’s a smaller rear-tined tiller. She hasn’t decided whether to buy it or not. I wanted to recycle the engine of the beast but she knows someone who might buy it who has lighter soil, less weight and more familiarity with such machines.

Meanwhile I’ve finished fabricating two beams and five crossbars for the trailer for the alternator. If TLW sells the current tiller, I might buy another big diesel engine to run things.

UPDATE: Here’s TLW on the machine… Yes, it’s running… The darned thing shed its belts twice and broke two tines while she was figuring out how to steer…

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in family, food, horticulture and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink.

49 Responses to Good and Great News

  1. oiaohm says:

    What got nothing better to-do that attempt moron personal attacks because you cannot accept you have facts wrong. You did not ask me why needing 1 hour before the 72 hour point. Normally to be approved completed exam from where ever you are doing it has to be on the markers desk by the 72 hours point. So the finish time is not where you are doing the exam it when the exam is delivered.

    So I see the dougman must be an absolute failure himself. Remember what I said about insults reflecting about self.

  2. dougman says:

    “Please note 1 min past 72 hours is fail absolutely. The practical limit is really 71 hours. Fail absolutely is that you cannot retake the exam or renter the same course for 5 years. That is a fail you don’t want.”

    You are one huge FAILURE, aren’t you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure

    See you are liken to the choo-choo train that drove through the station and crashed on the street.

  3. oiaohm says:

    Only a “retard” would argue over how long 72-hours is, you proved my point.
    No only a retard would have to be corrected on exam taking.

  4. dougman says:

    Only a “retard” would argue over how long 72-hours is, you proved my point.

  5. oiaohm says:

    Ahhh yes, retards test over seventy-three hours straight. Silly fact and interesting point, people do need sleep along with down time. Thus seventy-two hours divided by eight hours, equals testing over nine days. There are five days in a working/training week, so we land at two weeks training.
    Exam time is not divided. Exam is divided by making more exams. Testing over 9 days equals 9 exams. This is where your complete maths here was wrong from the get go. You presumed totally incorrectly that exam can be divided. Exam time is always one continuous time block. Even on-line course exams are written the same way can be quite insane seeing 3months to complete written in hour figures.

    To get a pass you must be inside functionally tolerable.

    72hours /3days is the set figure for a functional pass. This was a number that was come up with before the internet age with writing letters and so on. As long as the task could be complete in 72 hours/3 days it classed as fine. Only catch here is they are allowed to stack other things into that 72 hours like other exams.

    1 hour exam is a max of 72 hour until it has to be handed in. Now if everyone else is doing 8 exams in the week. Guess what so are you. Start times on the exams is the same for everyone the finish times is all that is extended. Now if the exam is a full 8 hour all day exam the end in time is still only 3 days/72 hours.

    The 72 hours is so you can sleep possible twice before handing work in. With dyslexia and the like after sleep faults you could not see become visible after you have had a sleep. So yes the 72 hours is linked to human brain mechanics.

    So the 72 hours is not really to make the exam easier to pass. But really a real world limit on how long a response could be delayed. Taking the 72 hours and turning into 9 days would not be testing for a functional pass. 9 days is longer than what a task can be delayed on average in the real world so no way could be used for a functional pass.

    So as a idiot you applied maths presuming I did not mean exactly what I typed. When I types 72 hours that is exactly what I mean. Please note 1 min past 72 hours is fail absolutely. The practical limit is really 71 hours. Fail absolutely is that you cannot retake the exam or renter the same course for 5 years. That is a fail you don’t want.

    This is a common problem when people hear that extended time is given with different disabilities they think that is way greater than what it is. Also the more extended time you take the higher you mark has to be to get passing grade. So it don’t get easier to pass using the extra time but in fact harder to pass and possible to fail worse.

    72 hours was calculated include sleep and downtime. If you are stupid enough to attempt to stay wake and take no downtime to use the complete 72 hours assigned the odds of you making the pass grade value is almost zero. So you are required to have own time management and do it right. The exam time very much like a employer tell you that you must have a task done in 72 hours time or else. If you cannot manage your own time properly to complete the exam you don’t deserve a functional pass. Yes as mentioned quite major punishments.

  6. dougman says:

    “Idiot strikes again. Exam timer starts from start of exam to end. 72 hours is 3 days to complete.”

    Ahhh yes, retards test over seventy-three hours straight. Silly fact and interesting point, people do need sleep along with down time. Thus seventy-two hours divided by eight hours, equals testing over nine days. There are five days in a working/training week, so we land at two weeks training.

    Yes it would be better at long last has agreed to sit down and work, but the process is a pain in ass.

  7. oiaohm says:

    Only in Australia, where a retard can take a test over the period of two-weeks.
    Idiot strikes again. Exam timer starts from start of exam to end. 72 hours is 3 days to complete. Now if you can stay wake for 3 days straight you could have 72 hours to work on it. So sleep time comes out of exam time. Basically you sit exam in a private room in a dorm with food delivered. Exam time does not work on working hours. Of course is extra cost to use the privilege as well.

    Online exams for most University courses can be complete online over a time frame of month by anyone. Course work has no requirement to be able to complete stuff quickly just that you can complete it. Sorry idiot who has no clue about how the academic exam systems work.

  8. Ivan says:

    Calling Peter Dolding a retard is an insult to retards. You should apologize to them.

  9. dougman says:

    “For a normal 1 hour english exam max time allowed due to disability 72 hours”

    Only in Australia, where a retard can take a test over the period of two-weeks.

  10. dougman says:

    Notice something here. The true fact, and this is the problem you are a babbling lumpkin.

    Notice something here, you are so far over sold its not funny.

  11. oiaohm says:

    I never knew retard’s were able to take exams in Australia.
    For a normal 1 hour english exam max time allowed due to disability 72 hours same in the USA, Canada and Australia. This value of the 72 hours for people with dyslexia and other related faults. Here is the horible fact you have to score 99 percent to get a passing grade when you use the extra time. So exchange for extra time to-do the exam you have to be able to match the top student or fail basically.

    Were you in fact top in your class in english I guess not. So people you call retards could be the people with more knowledge in english than you. Because they required it to pass.

  12. oiaohm says:

    The true fact if the ANON rotary tiller breaking most like every other form of rotary tiller is going to have high failure rates. ANON will break were it will not destroy the machine.

    https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-Small-Tractor-Walking-Tractor-Implements_60011239215.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.2jyRMS

    Notice something here a proper walking tractor does not have to use a rotary tiller it can in fact use normal plough discs and rippers.

    The problem here is you can have two areas of land that look almost identical and one area works with a rotary tiller and one area the rotary tiller will not last 8 days work without needing a full set of replacement bolts for the tines and possible some tines replaced. The reality the structural strength of the Chinese Anon Rotary tiller is as strong as you get.

    So question comes is your land that hard that you should be using plough discs or rippers? So the issue with breakage might simply be wrong tool for job behind machine because of soil type.

    http://www.ruralking.com/poulan-pro-17-rear-tine-tiller-prrt900.html
    This does not have the ability to use plough discs or rippers. If your soil is that tough that those are required the poulan-pro is not going to last either.

    Rotary Tine tillers as normally so far over sold its not funny. I lived in an area with heavy black volcanic clay it was that hard that it would cause massive bolt failures in any tine tiller under 8 days of usage. Yet plough discs and rippers lasted perfectly well.

  13. dougman says:

    ” I can pass every english exam when I have more time. ”

    More time? Hah!…you have plenty of time it seems to SPAM this blog with your BS. I never knew retard’s were able to take exams in Australia.

  14. oiaohm says:

    “Yanmar uses hook a water pump”

    No clue wtf you are trying to imply.

    So I tell you the tested method Yammar uses and you want to dig your head in the sand.

    How many horses are there in a horsepower engine?
    No better question idiot is what is horsepower.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
    There are 4 different standard measurements of Horsepower. Engine maker is free to use any 1 of the 4 to work out what HP rating to brand on an engine. 4 of them have the official title hp with () to define what one. When was the last time you saw on the side of engine (I),(M),(E) or (S). Honda is hp(E) or hp(M). Honda is not hp(I) that you gave maths for.

    The problem you have here is notice the Watt differences between hp(E) and hp(M) and hp(I).

    So the reality is horsepower there is no real representative horse for it because horsepower value comes in different size representations. Add in different engine makers using different methods with different torque load say hello to HP values on side of engines all over the shop.

    The universal compare value of different horsepower measurements is watts. If an engine give you a watt value this only has one meaning you can work out what hp measure they in fact used. You want to take about engine power you talking in watts not horsepower when talking internationally it prevents mega screw-ups.

    Horsepower is a odd imperial term that when converted metric just become rendered almost totally not trust-able.

    Claiming that watts is only about electricity is showing how much of a idiot you are on this topic. They only safe way to talk about engine internationally is watts.

  15. oiaohm says:

    http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/8/2/825-massey-ferguson-1105.html
    PTO (tested): 110.72 hp [82.6 kW]

    http://www.dictionary.com/browse/knew
    You “knew” this topic? What happened when the topic was “known” to you? Were you dropped as a baby? Is that the reason why it is now “knew” to you versus currently known?
    Knew means that I had to look stuff up because in the past it was fully known to me. So I am being truthful and you are picking on me for it. But by the level of mistakes you made it was never even knew the topic. If you had known the topic you might been able to get somewhere.

    Semantics aside, even a twelve-year old understands the proper use and command of the English language, something you are sorely lacking in skill in.
    Sorry no this is not the case. I can pass every english exam when I have more time. So its not that I don’t have proper command of the English language. This is what gets people into trouble correcting stuff. Challenging on knew shows that you presume I don’t have command of the language. What is absolutely not the case. Basically you are a bigot who is presuming way to much.

  16. dougman says:

    How many horses are there in a horsepower engine?

  17. dougman says:

    “Yanmar uses hook a water pump”

    No clue wtf you are trying to imply.

  18. dougman says:

    “So hook generator up to engine take the kiliwatts generated add efficiency”

    Yes, you do need the 1.21 jiggawatts to create a fusion nuclear reaction to generate the electricity. Careful though the kiliwatts will kill you!

    “Sorry I knew this topic inside and out.”

    You “knew” this topic? What happened when the topic was “known” to you? Were you dropped as a baby? Is that the reason why it is now “knew” to you versus currently known? Semantics aside, even a twelve-year old understands the proper use and command of the English language, something you are sorely lacking in skill in.

    Trying to imply that it is a scientific skillset that you have is laughable. The way you write and compose yourself, if you applied said methodology to say a resume, no one would hire you.

  19. oiaohm says:

    Factually, the problem is you are a simpleton. There is no use in argument the merits with you, on any subject, as you already know everything there is to know.
    Sorry you are a idiot simpleton who did not understand that engine power has two ratings metric being kilowatts and imperial being HP.

    Knowing the method a engine maker uses to calculate the horse power is important.

    Honda using generator. So hook generator up to engine take the kiliwatts generated add efficiency correction value by correction value to convert to HP then brand that on side of machine.

    Yanmar uses hook a water pump up-to engine and measure how many litres of water it moved in X time once at full speed then does the maths to convert that to a HP value and also apply efficiency correction value then brands that on side of engine.

    Now to be fun Honda on some engines they use the water pumping measure.

    Efficiency correction value of a electrical generator used is classed as 90% effective in the Honda model that is used result x0.90. Same with the Yanmar and the pump used. Now if that Efficiency correction value is wrong the engine will be over rated or under rated.

    Reality is there is no global standard what engine manufactures have to use to come up with a HP value to brand on their engines. Now how they have to do the performance graph of the engine that has a global standard.

    It is possible to have the shocking case of two absolutely identical engines from two different engine manufactures due to two different measurement methods used to have two different HP values branded on the side of the engines. To be super fun Honda due to using two methods to calculate HP you can get two Honda engines that are absolutely identical other than model number and HP value printed on the side.

    So replacing a engine on farm equipment you don’t go by what HP is branded on the engine. Instead you find out Torque and RPM requirements of hardware going to be driven. This gives you your functional required HP. The engine in most cases will be a higher/lower HP value branded than the functional required HP. The method used to calculate the branded HP with have a different torque requirement to the task the engine will be performing. Yes 10HP Yanmar and a 13HP Honda will in most cases due to the difference in load in measuring methods turn out to be swappable with each other. With the load case of the BCS both engine are only a effective HP of 8.5 so identical and swap-able. Now if the two engines had a different effective HP value different parts of the BCS machines design could get over stressed.

    It should have made you brain at least a little turn on when BCS had stated two different HP size engines used on the same device that there was something wrong with HP measurement by Manufactures. The reality is due to being a simpleton you believes HP on engines meant the same thing when it does not.

    This is where ANON walking tractor and most china made walking tractors the HP rating is an assembled rating so the load case. Deere rates their engines on generators and put that on side then published effective lower HP value in specs for the assembled machine.

    Direct drive is totally not recommend in cases where you can have jamming by all engine manufactures.

    No point attempting to go after someone if you don’t know the topic. That a person has said a lie in the past does not mean they will in the future.

    Sorry I knew this topic inside and out. You were stuffed from the get to.

  20. dougman says:

    Eh.

    Best thing to do is gut and use for chum.

  21. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Factually, the problem is you are a simpleton. There is no use in argument the merits with you, on any subject, as you already know everything there is to know. ”

    Some catches are less desirable than others.

    Perhaps it time to throw this one back, eh?

  22. dougman says:

    “dougman the simple maths is the problem.”

    Factually, the problem is you are a simpleton. There is no use in argument the merits with you, on any subject, as you already know everything there is to know.

    Hopefully, you are using all your salient knowledge as a gainfully employed lair/fraud. Perhaps you should look into politics? I hear they are all bullshitters, and are masters in fraud.

  23. oiaohm says:

    dougman the simple maths is the problem.

    HP = T * RPM / 5252
    That is the imperial. nm T value requires a different under value.

    Water pumping and electrical have lower Torque requirements. So engine is able to apply a lower Torque and spin at a higher RPM and give a over inflated HP value for the task at hand.

    http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/000/8/2/825-massey-ferguson-1105.html

    Electrical generation is expressed as watts, NOT horsepower.
    LOL no. There is a mathematical formula to convert from kilowatts to horsepower and the reverse. Hp is the imperial and Kilowatts is the metric both can be used to measure all the same things.

    This is why its so important to know what the test was done with. Engine may have a HP rate where all they did was hook it up to a generator recorded kilowatts then divide by 0.745699872 to give HP then increase engine value with some bogus level of efficiency error from the generator and engine combination. So extremely light torque load and some guess me figure then stamp that HP value on the side of the engine.

    “For torque work is only 8.5HP because its not at ideal speed.”

    Torque is expressed as pound-foot (lb-ft), NOT horsepower.
    Really you have no clue Torque is measured in (lb-ft) in imperial and Newton-meters in metric.

    For torque work is work requiring torque vs something like generation or water pumping that both can be fairly low torque but high RPM. Max achievable engine RPM speed aligns to torque load on engine and this then comes the base for the max achievable HP.

    You really want to see in the spec sheet of engine of HP/Kw vs Torque load. Particularly engines higher torque requirement achievable HP/Kw drops massively.

    When look at engine specs there is a set of relationships between output torque requirement and max achievable horsepower. Both engines in the BCS machines are not like a truck engine where these are design for low RPM but high torque but engine that stay fairly HP stable as the load comes on. Instead are design for lowest torque and high RPM like a race car so as you add torque they take a HP hit in a big way.

    The issue here is designing engine for high torque task is very different to designing engine for a low torque work.

    If you go to the extreme of this is you can have two 100 HP engines next to each other. One you can hold on to the shaft and it cannot start and the other will rip your hand it bits if you try that. What the difference here one 100Hp engine only is 100HP when it spinning at insane speed under light load and the other was a engine design to in fact provide torque. So you can have a 100HP engine that as soon as you connect to a machine that cannot even spin. 100HP branded on the side of both engines are they are totally not compareable. So 100HP light torque load engine in high torque load can have a effective HP of 0. This show how much HP value stamped on an engine has to be taken with a super grain of salt.

    Robert Pogson the bolts would also be suffering from stress cracking. The bolts normally have a shorter life than the tines in these rotating things. Yes its an annoying consumable.

    I guess I could look for the other.
    That why I have a metal detector around for. Because you really do want to find lost tines as they can be nasty if go back over that area at a latter date.

  24. dougman says:

    Simple math gents.

    T = HP * 5252 / RPM
    HP = T * RPM / 5252
    RPM = HP * 5252 / T

  25. DrLoser wrote, “Torque, in whatever units, is calculated by multiplying power by angular speed.”

    No, it’s not. Trust me, as Trump says. Torque is power divided by angular speed… I’m going to reduce the torque required by removing some outer tines. That way I don’t need to buy more bolts and the thing should not lug and the thing should be easier to steer. The tiller is nearly a metre across, too wide for the heavy clay.

  26. DrLoser says:

    I feel compelled to point out (before Fifi comes up with some deranged link) that there is, of course, a relationship between torque and horse-power. Torque, in whatever units, is calculated by multiplying power by angular speed.
    Since the torque value of any particular piece of apparatus is a cross-product of the radial axis length and the angle of the force vector measured against the lever … and of course, the power supplied … it’s hard to see how any sane human being can come up with a precise guess as to the horse-power required for a particular application, without at least knowing the length of the lever.
    Then again, Fifi has never once claimed to be sane, as far as I recall.

  27. DrLoser says:

    Be fair, Douglas. At least Fifi has graduated from horse-shit to horse-power.
    It doesn’t actually make his argument any more convincing, but then again, what would?

  28. dougman says:

    LOL… It’s certified, you, Ham-Dong the know nothing, has no clue as to what the fock you are talking about!

    “For electrical generation you get 13HP out of it when at idea speed.”

    Electrical generation is expressed as watts, NOT horsepower.

    “For torque work is only 8.5HP because its not at ideal speed.”

    Torque is expressed as pound-foot (lb-ft), NOT horsepower.

    “Its 10hp electrical and water pumping when can be at ideal speed.”

    No clue, as to WTF you are trying to argue.

    The rest is just mindless drivel. Forrest Gump and Karl Childers are far smarter then you!

  29. oiaohm wrote, “Even annealed tines will crack in usage. Process of reheat treating the tines every so often extends the life of them a lot.”

    Last year, a tine did snap after striking a large hidden rock. I welded it back and it held together for normal use. The other day two tines were literally ripped off, snapping the mounting bolts. Those tines are tough. We recovered one, in good condition. I guess I could look for the other. The tines are not the problem. I had a spare. The problem is I’ve run out of mounting bolts with lock washer and nut. I will have to shop some more. They are 8mm bolts… What does concern me about the tines is that they are becoming dull. That increases the load on the engine and drive belts for little benefit in our hard soil. We are having rain today. That will soften the soil a bit and we might go at it again. We’ve had quite a dry spell, needing the trees to be watered in September, one of our rainy months. Global warming strikes again, messing up the weather.

  30. oiaohm says:

    the BCS 853 tiller comes with a 13HP Honda engine
    Go read the Honda spec sheet. For electrical generation you get 13HP out of it when at idea speed. For torque work is only 8.5HP because its not at ideal speed. 10hp Yanmar diesel get the spec sheet to that and you will find out that yes torque work again is 8.5. Its 10hp electrical and water pumping when can be at ideal speed.

    It would have been helpful if you had read the specs of both motors first.

    Also would pay to look something up. Honda does make a walking tractor.
    http://powerequipment.honda.com/tillers/models/frc800
    Yes this is only 8HP. Its all the small side of walking tractors. Its is expensive as. Do notice something belt drive and under chassis. So is BCS engine mounted how maker of engine recommends for that role. The answer is absolutely no. This is what happens when you do in fact dig into both engines the BCS stuff uses. Neither maker of the engines recommends them being used the way they are both in fact recommend under chassis to provide protection to engine and both recommend belt drive.

    Peter, please learn to read the actual specifications for a product before you explode all over your keyboard and post nonsensical drivel.
    Would be helpful yourself. Walking tractors from china and japan the HP rating of the engine is the HP that will be delivered in that role. So a 18 HP walking tractor from China or japan will normally something closer to 20HP engine for other roles. USA makers state engines in machines based on ideal role of engine. This is why the Deere 750 saying 20HP is only 18.5 yes its 20HP if you take engine out the tractor and use it as a generator but you are never going to-do that right. China and Japan classes that as false advertising. It is something to be aware of with Japan and China based engines they have ratings for roles.

    Seriously, are you stupid or something? A single ton weighs 2000lbs, why in the hell would I add 14,000 lbs of additional weight?
    Because you have a ripping tines being the tractor and due to design the front wheels are going into mid-air. So you put lead on the front to keep them down to attempt to keep tractor stable. And it does this with a smaller ripping tines than you can put behind the walking tractor. No one goes through the effort of putting on 7 tons of lead for no reason. The insanity of it when attempting to make Deere 750 20HP put out the same pulling force as a 18HP walking tractor. If you do attempt it you find you just cannot the physical design is not going to let you.

    Have you not watched USA tractor pull competitions at all to notice they do the same thing basically the back wheels stay on the ground and the front wheels go airborne.

    Walking tractors have fairly much gone why bother having the front wheels when they want to be off the ground anyhow. Why have high axle when we don’t need that. Lets not fight with the nature of it. Lets work with the nature of the problem.

    Result of doing that lot higher amount of the engine HP ends up in the task that is happening behind the walking tractor.

    Remember Massey-Ferguson 75HP is only rated to pull about 4 tons. So over 3 times big HP then remember a 18HP walking tractor is rated to pull 10tons.

    Now is there reasons why you would not use a walking tractor.
    1) you are only as high as a human. So you cannot see too far at all.
    Big reason for the normal 4 wheel tractor is how high the driver is.
    2) a walking tractor normally cannot go above 22HP because of the forces it threatening to let loss on itself. So there is a upper limit to how big a walking tractor engine can be. Its a rare maker to do more than 20HP.
    3) a lot of PTO machinery wants more than 22HP so engine limit caps what a walking tractor can do.
    4) cabin to protect from sprays and the like does not exist for walking tractors.
    5) skid steering of a walking tractor is harder to learn. There are more expensive walking tractors with a steering column that work by adjusting the differential.
    6) Reason for seeing more conventional tractors as 4 wheel drive to make them harder to get bogged compared to 2 wheel walking tractors.
    7) quite limited top speed in walking tractors. Some can do up to 33km/h but that is really upper limit.

    The reality here is a 4 wheel conventional tractor is a all rounder master of none at the price of not being higher effective. A two wheel walking tractor is a master of applying pulling force. Even when walking tractor has rotating tines behind they are still turning some of the force going down the PTO into forwards force. Take a walking tractor out of what it a master of you will run into stack of barriers.

    Its very easy to fail to notice how powerful a walking tractor is due to how small it is.

    Some things about a walking tractor can be super fun. Like the using the trailer you use to transport it on the highway between locations at destination behind the walking tractor. When you need to be dropping off posts are particular points when building a fence line you don’t need speed. There are a lot of farming tasks were

    I find it fracking hilarious that the Poulan Pro tiller you are looking to purchase: http://www.ruralking.com/poulan-pro-17-rear-tine-tiller-prrt900.html, is of the same style and configuration of the BCS tiller I recommended: https://bcsamerica.com/product/model-853
    Take a closer look the Poulan Pro and the BCS tiller are two major different designs. So you cannot claim same style

    BCS tiller is a direct drive, Poulan Pro is belt drive. Yes belt drive provides failure point when something goes wrong that is reasonable cost effective to fix and hopefully most of the time its just the belt kicked off. Direct drive if that fails due something going wrong its not going to be cost effective all the time. Poulan Pro has a proper steel under chassis. So falling forwards for any reason Poulan Pro has something other than engine hitting ground. So its not that USA cannot make decent versions of these machines its just not the current BCS versions.

    Is Poulan Pro engine mounted as per manufactures of engine recommendation the answer is yes. When it not yes for a BCS version. BCS is serous-ally playing with fire.

    Your confusing yourself, you painted your face black. The tractor wasn’t painted black.
    No I am not confusing self. It was because of a prior insurance claim as well. One of their early tractor was red at first after being flipped up side down by the bulls the insurance company was not sending it back same colour to have to-do another payout. When you have 6 1 ton bulls picking on something it does have a problem. Basically the only way to get Massey-Ferguson in black new is to have had a prior insurance issue where the red colour is not suitable. This is an extreme custom order does mean if any of the colour parts get damaged replacement is not going to be straight forwards. Most people have no idea that it possible at all to get a Massey-Ferguson in black let alone the requirements to-do it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plough
    Funny Plow is USA spelling. Plough is UK and Australian spelling. About time you stop picking on people for using correct not USA spelling. I would still say you have not done new field work.

    Chinese steel is inferior; I would not be surprised if the tines were never annealed properly. Take a torch and get all the tines glowing hot then let them air-cool.
    This is horribly wrong yet right in others. In steel quality made in China is the same mix of crap and good as made the the USA. Of course being the USA with USA import duties of over 500% on Chinese steel results in same price point between USA steel and Chinese steel in the USA being better quality than Chinese steel. Now everywhere else in the world without that 500%+ of duties USA steel for the same price is crap compared to Chinese steel. So its not that China on average makes bad steel. Depends on where you are and how much or how little you pay to get quality steel.

    Even annealed tines will crack in usage. Process of reheat treating the tines every so often extends the life of them a lot. That process lets the cracks in the steel to be repaired a little. Tines are a consumable on a machine like Roberts. In fact one of the biggest complaints with BCS machine that is USA made steel is very high tine breakage rate because they have the other problem of being over hardened. So USA or China made tines can be complete stuffed and this is basically normal. USA or Chine made tines not taken care of will have shorter lives.

    Shed the belts is way better than snapping a shaft somewhere. I would say nothing that happened was unexpected.

  31. dougman says:

    “The darned thing shed its belts twice and broke two tines while she was figuring out how to steer…:

    Another quality purchase. *rolls-yes*

    Chinese steel is inferior; I would not be surprised if the tines were never annealed properly. Take a torch and get all the tines glowing hot then let them air-cool.

  32. dougman says:

    Spammy jizzing all over the blog states, “I do know what I am talking about.”

    Since when?

    “You have never used that tracker for ploughing have you.”

    Not only have I ‘plowed’ with my ‘tractor’, at least I know how to spell.

    “The weighting positions on a Deere 750 20HP are rated to add 7 Ton to the machine.”

    Seriously, are you stupid or something? A single ton weighs 2000lbs, why in the hell would I add 14,000 lbs of additional weight?

    “Massey-Ferguson are red normally but the one I was using was painted black.”

    Your confusing yourself, you painted your face black. The tractor wasn’t painted black.

    In all honesty, you should go find yourself a hobby, perhaps find yourself a woman.

    For example, here is a line I dropped on a female math teacher of late, “If your clothing were radical expressions, would you strip to the lowest common denominator?”

  33. dougman says:

    I find it fracking hilarious that the Poulan Pro tiller you are looking to purchase: http://www.ruralking.com/poulan-pro-17-rear-tine-tiller-prrt900.html, is of the same style and configuration of the BCS tiller I recommended: https://bcsamerica.com/product/model-853

    Additionally, you have pork-chop going off on me in “Haybine Mode” all the while vehemently trying to argue against purchasing such a tool. LMAO..

    The fruit picker states, “BCS Model-853 is only 8.5HP machine.”

    The BCS 853 tiller comes with a 13HP Honda engine, you can also get a 10hp Yanmar diesel. It is NOT 8.5HP as referenced.

    Peter, please learn to read the actual specifications for a product before you explode all over your keyboard and post nonsensical drivel.

    BTW: the two attachments I love are the rotary plow and the power harrow. Not entirely cheap, but well worth the expense in the long run.

  34. oiaohm wrote, ” Anon is just a clone and improve design off a good first design. All good walking trackers some identical features. One of those very important features is falling forwards only result in chassis making contact with ground hopefully something sled shaped.”

    I wish the Anon could fall forward. As a roto-tiller it is heavily resting on the tiller. This is what makes it hard to steer. Conversely, as a plough, it was nose-heavy and I had to add weight to the handles just to maintain control. There is no adjustment to shift weight forwards or backwards, only to add weight. On a smaller tiller, I can easily lift the tiller with the handle and apply lateral force to the handle to help steer more sharply. That doesn’t work with the Anon.

    The tail-wheel is supposed to add fine-tuning but it’s too small for that purpose and the depth-control on mine is broken so one can’t raise the tiller to a better depth to make steering easier. Mine, too, has the wrong angle on the tiller’s frame so that my engine rather than being horizontal is a bit head-down. That’s a flawed design which I reported back to the maker. I suspect they need to use a different frame for the 18HP than they used for the 12HP model. I also had a devil of a time assembling the tiller’s shield which suggests to me they sent parts of two different models in my shipment. With the language-barrier we never cleared that up. Still, with all those flaws, I got my basic landscaping done and turned a weed-infested lumpy yard into something that works for me and TLW for a fraction of the cost of professional landscaping. The Chinese monster has paid for its cost/time/trouble. I could hook its engine to the alternator or sell it. It still has remaining value.

  35. Dougman wrote, “For serious acreage you need 50HP for the bare minimum. 80HP on up is preferable.”

    It’s true you need more power to do more work faster but we’re talking my yard here… The Chinese roto-tiller does the job several times faster than that Sears machine we bought, but it’s as good as Day One now whereas the Sears is sitting in my garage as an engine and scrap metal. The Sears’ wheels fell off on Day One and the transmission failed irreparably once per year. The Chinese roto-tiller is a far more rugged machine. Its weaknesses lie in three places:

    • steering – the tail wheel is just silly and the skid-steering is Boolean and at its best gets you ~2m turning radius, too much for dodging trees/shrubs/flowers and following TLW’s berms which are “kidney”-shaped.
    • The tail-wheel, which is supposed to add fine-tuning to the steering can’t support my weight which is triple TLW’s weight and it barely allows one to hold a straight line.
    • The diesel power while quite adequate is not delivered effectively on my hard soil because the forward speed is a little too high. In the lowest gear it spews chunks instead of particles and the engine RPM drops. Because of the broken and twice-repaired tail-wheel, the tiller digs too deeply even for this monster. In its original condition it was quite effective because you could take two passes in much less time than the Sears could do one pass.

    So, the monster did its job. Now I have a different job and a different machine would be better. The Poulan-Pro will be much easier to handle, the shield will protect me from the chunks and the narrower cut will allow a smaller engine to do the job. I don’t mind walking. With the Chinese monster I could barely keep up…

  36. oiaohm says:

    Still over the double the weight. You do not gain any power by increase the mass of the machine. In face under independent testing you will find that the Deere 750 claims 20HP but under independent testing the engine is only 18.5HP. So reality is both machines have the same size engine. There is some major physics design issues that come back and bite the Deere 750 and there are some physics design parts that go directly in the walking tractors favour.

    LOL… my tractor weights 2000lbs / 1 Ton / ~907kg. / ~142 stone obviously you haven’t a clue what i was talking about
    I do know what I am talking about. You have never used that tracker for ploughing have you.

    The 9 to 10 ton of extra mass comes from where the pivot point(being the height of the back axle) is to the height off pulling point and the amount of lead you have to add to the tractor to correct for it so you get the required pulling force. Where the walking trackers with their lower axis in line to pulling point means their starting weight almost exactly where it need to be.

    The main reason why you don’t use Deere 750 20HP for new field as soon as you put on the amount of lead you need to its kinda not moving anywhere. The reality is the tractor needs to be a little longer and the engine needs to be heavier to make a stable 4 wheel design and keep the same size back wheels. Of course it would be simpler just to reduce the wheel size down to that of a walking tractor then you might as well make a walking tractor. The weighting positions on a Deere 750 20HP are rated to add 7 Ton to the machine. So this take the machine up to 8 Tons from is 1 Ton starting weight and this is technically short on what you need for the machine to be stable for new field work.

    10 to 11 ton I said was mass of machine meaning final mass of machine when you have it configured for new field work. And that is if the machine is shaped like Deere 750.

    Massey-Ferguson are red normally but the one I was using was painted black. For some reason one places bulls thought that bright colours equal chase.(Ok makes sense when you know there were for bull riding) mf5400 something 2004 in colour black that is a very custom order and very hard to get you mits on one of them.

    That MF5400 from memory is about 4 ton pulling force limit when fully packed with weights. The figure you are looking for with new field work is at least 6 ton. 60-75HP some tractors of different brands do have a 6 ton pulling force. Most 18HP walking tractors have at least 8 tons of pulling force normally 10 tons pulling force.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-wheel_tractor Note the first picture on that page. 12 HP walking tractor 5.6 tonnes of rice that is more than 75HP MF5400 can pull. Why such a huge difference walking tractors are pulling in exact alignment with the drive axle.

    New field work is a pure pain in requirements of pulling force to deal with hidden obstacles. This is what makes well designed walking tractors so impressive you have the power you need for new field work they are compact as and use burn bugger all fuel doing it.

    I don’t know of a single 75HP Massey-Ferguson that is big enough for new field work. 100HP+ I know there is one. Still you are fighting with the fact you are not pulling in exact alignment with drive axle.

    There is quite a huge cost in pulling not aligned to drive axle. The cost is needing 3-6 times the HP to get the same result when pulling not aligned.

    Of course the fact that a 18HP walking tracker can apply 10Ton of pulling force means that if the tool is pulling through the ground snaps and it spin forwards it going do it at quite a bit of speed. Even at 8.5 HP with aligned pulling when that happens bad things do follow if there is no decent metal guard.

    Walking tractors are aligned with the best physics way to pull the task ploughing off. So a right on the sweet spot.

    Used BCS hold their value, as with any older model John Deere.
    This is kinda of true old BCS before the year 2000 have a steel under-frame protecting the engine in case of event causing forwards kick. I would say some designer decided to save a few dollars in production. The price is the newer versions are not lasting as long.

  37. dougman says:

    “A Deere 750 is 11-12 Ton”

    LOL… my tractor weights 2000lbs / 1 Ton / ~907kg. / ~142 stone obviously you haven’t a clue what i was talking about.

    “The reality is nasty a 20HP Deere 750 compacts the ground a lot due to its mass ”

    The reality is you are an IDIOT!

    “If you are talking about a 4 wheel tractor you are right. If you talking about walking tractors that size is way out. ”

    Do you even know how to stay on a particular topic? Obviously your bipolar feeble brain cannot stay on point. Always meandering left and right, to and fro, tit for tat along the pages of Wikipedia.

    “75HP Massey-Ferguson I have driven one of those as well. ”

    Oh?? Do tell, what color was it, what year? How many kilowatts was it? Did you run green or red fuel in it or perhaps a blend of ethanol from corn.

    “Go to scrap yards go see how BCS machines are broken they are almost always broken exactly the same area. ”

    Pictures, or it didn’t happen fool. BTW: Used BCS hold their value, as with any older model John Deere.

    PS. Ham-Dingy, don’t piss me off, I will go into ‘Haybine Mode’ and hunt you down with my tractor.

  38. oiaohm says:

    “Deere 750 is 20HP” true did you look at the mass of the machine.

    Under half a ton for an Anon 18HP walking tractor. A Deere 750 is 11-12 Ton. This extra mass comes at a price in performance for particular tasks.

    The reality is nasty a 20HP Deere 750 compacts the ground a lot due to its mass and due to it mass can put less force into the ground than a 18HP walking tractor.

    For serious acreage you need 50HP for the bare minimum. 80HP on up is preferable.
    If you are talking about a 4 wheel tractor you are right. If you talking about walking tractors that size is way out. Due to the massive difference in mass. 18HP walking tractor for force applicable to ploughing is about 60-75HP conventional 4 wheel tractor applies to ploughing. This is all purely because the walking tractor is not lugging around excess mass.

    75HP Massey-Ferguson I have driven one of those as well. I was doing fence construction what was stupid was that a trailer behind a 18HP walking tracker could move more mass in posts than a trailer behind the 75HP Massey-Ferguson. Its all because of how much power of the motor end up for pulling and how much was going into just moving the machine around. Scary part about walking tractors is about 95 percent of the engine rating ends up in pulling force.

    Just think about it a little 20HP Deere at 11ton vs a 18HP walking 0.5ton is over 10ton behind the walking tractor before you even start so until the walking 10ton of cargo has advantage. There is just no way a 20HP Deere can win against that disadvantage. This is why it takes until get to 60-75HP normal tractors to start being competitive against the 18HP walking in mass moving tasks.

    BEHOLD!!… who does not understand basic physics.

    The lower mass of walking tractors and the high percentage of force engine they do apply means when things go wrong with them the impact forces are quite up there. If stuff is not design right 18 HP walking tractor will break stuff just as successfully as 75HP 4 wheel tractor.

    Now would I want to run a mower behind a 18HP walking tractor I would say most likely no. I would want the extra protection and height off ground a normal 4 wheel tractor gives you.
    Mowing field after field of acres of hay.
    So this is something doing with a walking tractor does not make very much sense.
    Haybine is power by pto and if you don’t have the power by pto its not going to happen. When Haybine mode you are not ripping into the ground or using all the pulling force. This is where a convention 4 wheel tractor starts showing some gains over walking tractor. Large engine using small percentage of it for movement leaves a lot of the power to go down the pto and do things.

    Ploughing and land working is all about the pulling force you can apply. This is where walking tractors are impressive for what they can do with such a small motor due to sitting on a sweet spot caused by their low overall mass.

    You’re an Idiot of the nth degree! LMAO…
    Funny only a Idiot would attack a person like this. Go to scrap yards go see how BCS machines are broken they are almost always broken exactly the same area. Where motor connects to chassis. Always for the same reason motor impacted ground. Yet for some reason idiots keep on buying them. Worst part is BCS are not cheaper than the correctly made ones but in fact more expensive.

  39. dougman says:

    “So that in the event the walking tractor falls forwards the chassis hits the ground not the engine. BCS Model 853 it falls forwards engine hits the ground and the force has to be taken up by the motor connection bolts.”

    BEHOLD!!..Ham_Nerd the mechanical engineer.

    “I would not recommend the BCS versions of walking tractors to anyone they are defective design. ”

    BEHOLD!!…Ham_Farmer the agricultural genius.

    “Really its not that hard to put a proper chassis under the engine.”

    BEHOLD!!…Ham_Nerd (again) the design engineer.

    “BCS at best is a field maintenance machines. Totally not for landscape development.”

    You’re an Idiot of the nth degree! LMAO…

  40. dougman says:

    “For new field development work you need 18HP machine.” LOL….obvious you have never lifted a shovel for any sort of farming. 18HP is a wimpy tractor to say the least. I should know, my Deere 750 is 20HP.

    Well Robert did state, “So, a smaller tiller just for the garden/orchard and flower-beds is appropriate. ” . Oh let me guess you are a farmer and landscaper too now.

    For serious acreage you need 50HP for the bare minimum. 80HP on up is preferable. How do I know this? I was driving a 75HP Massey-Ferguson and Haybine driven by the pto at age 12. Mowing field after field of acres of hay.

  41. oiaohm says:

    This is what robot reported getting
    http://anon.en.alibaba.com/product/1144918759-218911521/ANON_18HP_Farm_Walking_Tractor.html
    And this is
    https://bcsamerica.com/product/model-853
    Is what dougman the idiot suggested.

    There is a huge mother of a design flaw in the BCS Model 853. Look closer at the China made one there is a complete steel chassis running under the engine. So that in the event the walking tractor falls forwards the chassis hits the ground not the engine. BCS Model 853 it falls forwards engine hits the ground and the force has to be taken up by the motor connection bolts. I would not recommend the BCS versions of walking tractors to anyone they are defective design. Really its not that hard to put a proper chassis under the engine.

    Now if you want to suggest something decent do. But no point suggesting junk. Its really not hard to work out where a BCS machine is going to fail. Every BCS machine has the same repeating defect of lack of engine protection so the common fail for BCS machines is cracked engine mountings.

    The first walking trackers were made in Japan and the first ones had full length chassis. Anon is just a clone and improve design off a good first design. All good walking trackers some identical features. One of those very important features is falling forwards only result in chassis making contact with ground hopefully something sled shaped. Why must it be sled shaped you have found something undigable so the machine climbs over it. This is very much like the Australian stump jump plough. Not having it equals complete nightmares when using the machine at times. Yes the full length chassis is mandatory when doing new field development because you don’t know what land mines of rocks are under the surface. You need the sled functionality so the machine lives from finding that stuff and able to drive basically over the top of it. Now the BCS machines without it slam the engine into the ground.

    BCS at best is a field maintenance machines. Totally not for landscape development.

  42. DrLoser wrote, “that awful T-Frame thing you spent about a hundred hours welding together for it”.

    That was in my plan as soon as TLW stated she wanted to strew boulders all over the yard. It was able to lift all but a few of the heaviest. For those we hired a loader. The hoisting frame, chain hoist and cart I built for those boulders will be used to assemble the alternator, move heavy pots and bagged products for the yard, like fertilizer. If we get a monster buck this fall, I’m sure it will be useful. The unexpectedly low limit of weight on that frame will be remedied shortly with a few strategic braces which will put it over my limit for easy manoeuvrability. It’s all good.

    I didn’t need a sump pump this summer for the orchard but I likely will need one installed for next year. I’m always looking for good/interesting ways to spend my money. I will have a lot more cash-flow in a few months. A shed or trailer or both are agreeable to TLW… She likes me to move heavy stuff around but doesn’t want to cede any more space in the garage. A neighbour set up a pre-fab tube and tarp shed and such things cost only ~$200 big enough to keep my stuff out of the weather. TLW noticed… I’ve always found it’s better to let TLW think she comes up with ideas…

  43. oiaohm says:

    Thing here is Sears roto-tiller before the before the china import did not last a season.

    DrLoser the machine most like will out live his grandchildren. Because it was good quality and it is the size for new field development not field maintenance.

    Issue here is a person like me with some farming experience setting up new fields understands that the first machine need is bigger force application than what you need to-do on going maintenance with due to the level of resistance first passes have to deal with. 1-3 season of working with bigger force is required.

    With full tractors you change the plough type and width. The plough you use with full tractors for opening up new field is between 1/2 to 1/4 if the width of the plough you use to maintain it. So between double to quad the amount of force applied depending on how resistant the soil is. Due to the fact they are apply double to quad force lots of areas in the plough is thicker.

    So past machine was 18hp to develop new field level. Replacement machine between 9 to 5 hp same width to maintain it would be kinda expected. Of course lower hp equals lighter mass.

    If you cannot develop the new field with a 18hp walking tractor with the narrow width ploughing due to soil resistance you are not going to be able to develop the new field with anything with tractor in it name. New field areas is when you break the most equipment finding immovable objects so anything doing new field work ends up being reasonable huge and chunky to put up with the extra stresses.

    Yes it quite common for equipment to end up shared between many different farm owners particularly new field development stuff.

    Robert Pogson I would recommend being sure that you are finished opening up new ground. The smaller machine may run some issues if you attempt to open up new ground with it. Why it may not be thick enough in places or enough hp to handle the extra forces of new field development. Of course if it going to someone who you can borrow it back from for new field work that is another matter.

    A machine combination big enough for new field development can be used for field maintenance but it normally overkill. Yet a machine combination developed only to be big enough for field maintenance will not survive if asked to-do field development. So it critical to work out if you need new field development any more or not. Yes lower power machine equals lighter that does equal simpler to steer and simpler to do maintenance on but you do trade something away for it. So future new field development yes/no? must be answered so you can make correct selections.

    Its fairly much horses for courses. Asking a Race horse to-do the work of a Clydesdale is fairly much the same kind of thing.

    What you paid for a POS CHINA CRAP, you could have bought a brand-new BCS.

    https://bcsamerica.com/product/model-853
    So the idiot strikes again. BCS Model-853 is only 8.5HP machine. For new field development work you need 18HP machine. Yes that machine new more than price Robert paid for China Walking tractor and would give less than half the working power.

    Sorry the BCS Model 853 is a USA POS over priced clone of a China made walking tractor. The reality is most of the decent engined walking tractors only are made in one country China. Yes don’t use BCS Model 853 for landscaping they are not built for it too much of wimp.

  44. dougman says:

    “China is a friend. ”

    WRONG!

    http://www.caseyresearch.com/china
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R44612.pdf

    “it’s already paid for itself by the savings in landscaping.”

    I smell BS.

    “Quotes were as high as $14K to do what it did. Now that we have planted hundreds of trees”

    Hundreds you say? $14K for “hundreds” of trees?? Are they money trees? Thats < $140 a tree! I smell more BS.

    "it’s too big to manoeuvre, especially when I weigh too much for the seat "

    Lose some damn weight, granted your not 5' tall and 100 lbs like most Asians, but its not hard to lose 20lbs – 50lbs when you are eating properly and exercising.

    "So, a smaller tiller just for the garden/orchard and flower-beds is appropriate.

    Get a BCS!!

    "That wasn’t my plan but when circumstances change, plans change."

    Again, you do not wear the pants in the family, shame on you. You need to grow a set of balls!

    "We might still use it to prepare for seeding the lawn"

    Waste of time!! Why bother tilling up the entire backyard? Just get a tractor with a landscape rake, along with a dethatcher and groom the hell out of it, then get a drop spreader to spread slow-release fertilizer along with how many 50lb. bags of grass seed you need.

    "I also had quite a bit of fun putting it together and dealing with China."

    MORE BS. Welding a frame to mount the engine on said tractor/tiller, I am VERY sure was a pain in the ass, as you did it outside in the cold and snow/ice.

    I give "Man Buys Tractor From China" two thumbs down.

  45. dougman says:

    “Total cost was about $3K ”

    HOLY HELL, MONKEY-BALL SACKS!!

    What you paid for a POS CHINA CRAP, you could have bought a brand-new BCS.

    https://bcsamerica.com/product/model-853

    BCS Dealer: HEPBURN ENTERPRISES 7945 Wilkes Ave. Headingly, MB R4H1B8

  46. DrLoser wrote, “The “giant roto-tiller” that cost around $CD 1000 plus the same again in import duties and transport and was supposed to outlive you and make your grandchildren proud?”

    No, not that one. It doesn’t exist. Import duties were zero $ because China is a friend. Total cost was about $3K and it’s already paid for itself by the savings in landscaping. Quotes were as high as $14K to do what it did. Now that we have planted hundreds of trees, it’s too big to manoeuvre, especially when I weigh too much for the seat. The skinny people just don’t have my patience. If we were going to buy new land or build/buy a trailer, I might keep it but none of my descendants are showing much interest in acreages. So, a smaller tiller just for the garden/orchard and flower-beds is appropriate. That wasn’t my plan but when circumstances change, plans change. We might still use it to prepare for seeding the lawn but we now have half the space we did before and the monster takes all of it just too turn around.

    I also had quite a bit of fun putting it together and dealing with China. It was a learning experience.

  47. DrLoser says:

    I’m all agog to find out what Dougie thinks about this little turn-up for the books, btw. As you may recall, Dougie and I concurred in our opinion that you were making a senile mistake on this one.
    It doesn’t happen very often (the agreement bit, I mean), but when it does happen, I suggest you listen to people who know better than you do.

  48. DrLoser says:

    The “giant roto-tiller” that cost around $CD 1000 plus the same again in import duties and transport and was supposed to outlive you and make your grandchildren proud?
    And it lasted a single year? (Much like the average Linux “long term” distro, unless you use a reputable supplier like Red Hat.)
    Penny wise, dollar foolish, Robert. By the way, what are you going to do with that awful T-Frame thing you spent about a hundred hours welding together for it?

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