Legacy PCs Continue Nose-diving In 2016

“global smartphone sales will for the first time exhibit single-digit growth in 2016. Global smartphone sales are estimated to reach 1.5 billion units in 2016, a 7 per cent growth from 2015. The total mobile phone market is forecast to reach 1.9 billion units in 2016.
 
Worldwide combined shipments for devices (PCs, tablets, ultramobiles and mobile phones) are expected to reach 2.4 billion units in 2016, a 0.6 per cent increase from 2015 (see Table 1). End-user spending in constant US dollars is estimated to decline by 1.6 per cent year on year.”
 
See Gartner Says Global Smartphone Sales to Only Grow 7 Per Cent in 2016
In airplanes, nose-dives are often fatal affairs leading to disintegrations in mid-air or smoking craters. In IT, they sometimes lead to failures of companies that do not adjust to changing markets. Wintel is certainly taking a hammering and is being forged into a new shape, having to work for a living.

Intel is selling well in up-scale machinery like premium PCs, servers and some gadgets, many running GNU/Linux. M$ is trying to enlist users on subscriptions and cloudy services. It’s all good. Their hold on the world of IT is no longer a stranglehold. ARM’s clientele are selling a multiple of small cheap CPUs and gadgets even taking some of the legacy PC space at the low end and moving into servers where smaller cheaper CPUs matter. Yes, it’s all good.

I expect to complete my personal escape from Wintel in 2016 with a more or less complete replacement of clients and servers. I’ve not been running That Other OS for years. I may actually add clients if I end up controlling a greenhouse and some alternative power-sources. I can afford to do that if they’re not devices on the Wintel treadmill. Same for the world. Moore’s Law is now working for the world, not just a few bloated corporations.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

136 Responses to Legacy PCs Continue Nose-diving In 2016

  1. Wizard Emeritus says:

    I must say you are quite entertaining sir. I have rarely heard such an elaborate pile of nonsense as you have managed here. I am going to limit myself to only a few comments.

    “Requirements to place request to use an real human Orchestra list the Sound sample requirements normally including what license type.”

    The time has come to call out this for the load of crap that it is. were you an actual composer, you would know that the process of attempting getting ones music performed by a symphony orchestra involves submitting a score to the conductor of the orchestra. If you are fortunate, the maestro will read your score and like it enough to give it a run through. Submitting an audition tape with the score can help, but no orchestral conductor is going to just reject a score because its audition tape, if of a performance of a virtual orchestra, was not generated with the “proper sample library”

    “Yes a real in person performance can be off due to venue equipment VSL heavily cleaned up sounds don’t let you simply replicate this.”

    So you would have me spend a ton of time acquiring and building a sample library that would make my composition sound like it were being performed by instrumentalists that are having an off day. I have never heard something so idiotic in my life!

    “Its funny most of those instruments you have listed Wizard Emeritus when using raw sample set require correct scoring to get correct sound. In fact score has to be more correct. In fact doing the correct scoring means composer in fact has to think about when the player is going to breath and other actions instead of letting VST fill in gaps.”

    What is even funnier is that I am composing right now with all of these instruments – they come as part of the portion of VSL that I licensed. And the results are that my compositions sound like they are being played by real instrumentalists, and unlike yourself I actually know what the real instruments sound like!

    “In fact you could have rejected perfectly fine sample sets because you did not know how to use raw.”

    No I rejected them because there is no reason to use them – When you have your choice of multiple orchestral sample libraries, there is no need to muck around with an ersatz collection of freeware.

    So when all is said and done, you have still failed my challenge. You can not point to a FOSS orchestral sample library that is anywhere near capable of matching the quality and realism of the Vienna Symphonic Library. All the ignorant lies that you have filled this stream with will not change that fact.

    Stop trying to make things up sir, you are not even good at it!

  2. Dr Loser says:

    Requirements to place request to use an real human Orchestra list the Sound sample requirements normally including what license type. Simple process of going through the process you find out what they are.

    Wonderful, oiaohm, wonderful. It’s simple, it’s a process, you can find it out.

    Assuming it exists.

    One single relevant cite to this effect, please.

    Otherwise you are free to admit that you have spent this entire colophon making things up with no justification whatsoever.

  3. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus
    I just noticed this gem.. Does this mean that you will not provide me with any proof of your assertions, presumably because those who are use them are under NDA?

    Requirements to place request to use an real human Orchestra list the Sound sample requirements normally including what license type. Simple process of going through the process you find out what they are. Interesting enough even if the sample sets are creative common 0 what is basically public domain many of them you have to register to be able to download.

    Philharmonia Orchestra is a rarity to put the section of their FOSS samples on a directly accessible site. Note key word section.

    The reason you don’t know is simple Wizard Emeritus is you have not been booking Orchestras todo stuff.

    Also using sample sets for the brass items without software assist of a VST.
    http://virtualplaying.com/video-making-realistic-midi-brass/
    Yes is different.

    Its funny most of those instruments you have listed Wizard Emeritus when using raw sample set require correct scoring to get correct sound. In fact score has to be more correct. In fact doing the correct scoring means composer in fact has to think about when the player is going to breath and other actions instead of letting VST fill in gaps.

    So I am fairly much sure that I give you the correct sample sets for what you requested then you will balls it up and complain again anyhow Wizard Emeritus. Of course due to complains over particular instruments in some of Philharmonia Orchestra list is only open to registered yet it is creative common license.

    Yes there is a reason for lack of apparent diversity in the FOSS stuff.

    Really since you have not been handling raws I would recommend some serous reading/video watch before attempting any raw sound samples. Philharmonia trumpet is more forgiving in brass when you can get that right using a raw set then look at those others in brass.

    In fact you could have rejected perfectly fine sample sets because you did not know how to use raw. Of course orchestras are not stupid and hand over the harder to use raw sample sets to just anyone that will just cause complains about them.

    This is another reason why something like VSL is kinda frowned on. Yes it allows you to get X instrument sound but it also allows you to forget person playing X instrument only can do so much and each player can have different physical limitations of course using a VST assist means this information will not be done up by the composer to help with human player selection.

    I was not pointing you Wizard Emeritus to Philharmonia Orchestra for no good reason. Its the raw set to start on to get your feet under yourself for handling raw sample sets.

    Ok not as broad but as least if you have your score slightly wrong nothing in the open to public is going to turn it to complete trash.

    The reality as I said it takes years to build up your sample sets this includes working with Orchestra and having some of the sample sets not on the open Internet opened up to you. Its not just the time to find and collect them Wizard Emeritus its also having the knowledge to in fact score it correctly so when using raws the final product is correct. Interesting enough the same things you have to consider using raws to have them sound correct are the same thing the players need to they can perform it. There is such thing as making life too easy.

    Basically Wizard Emeritus there is a clear line between what Pro and Semi-Pro can get access to and what Amateurs have access to when it comes to music composing. Its not based on dollars spent on software its based on business dealings.

    https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=11935
    Wizard Emeritus this above is to make a clear point about the importance of knowing how to hand raws correctly.
    Total Composure (Symphony) Orchestra and Sonatina Orchestra are the same raws for most instruments. And I mean exactly the same raws. The difference in sound is nothing more than handling final pass processing correctly. Yes after all the fancy talking up Total Composure the differences turn out to be quite minor like re-verb and low sound dropping.

    At the core of VSL success is configuring Kontakt to hide the sampling sins. Please note Linuxsampler used correctly can hide the same sampling faults Kontakt can. Of course not always are those sampling faults a bad thing sometimes it just the sound you are looking for.

    Yes one of the problems of using VSL is you have a prefect made sample set for an artist in front of you yet due to common recording defects(yes some instruments + mic equal same issues) you reject it because it does don’t sound like VSL and VSL has not shown you on it sample set its done a recording correction tweak that would have fixed the real artist sample that you have in your hands.

    Another is with say hey VSL can hand it. It means you don’t have the skills to take real recording into your work flow effectively. Most of the corrections are straight forwards like reverb and low/high freq dropping same setting sound desks at halls sometimes do. Note the word sometimes. To replicate some halls you do need raw record unfix because the sound desk in the hall does exactly the same thing to instruments.

    Yes a real in person performance can be off due to venue equipment VSL heavily cleaned up sounds don’t let you simply replicate this.

  4. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “There are tones of best of sites but the reality with Sample Sets is anyone working with real Orchestras have very little to no interest in any of the paid for Sample sets. The usable Orchestra Sample Sets for real Orechestra are FOSS or NDA at no cost. NDA at no cost is for composes to prep up tracks to guide conductor of that Orchestra and is not allowed to release the computer generated tracks to the general public.”

    I just noticed this gem.. Does this mean that you will not provide me with any proof of your assertions, presumably because those who are use them are under NDA?

    I await your answer sir.

  5. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Simple question are any of those what you require to get Orchestra to perform your work? The answer is not one. In fact every one of the 30 lands your work in the reject bin for being the wrong sample set.”

    Since you seem to be the only one who knows of this practice, produce the cites that back up your assertions about the wrong sample set. Or my responses stop.

    While you are at it, you can produce cites for where I can get sample sets from the orchestras other than the philharmonia. And while you are at it, please let me know where I can get samples for the following instruments

    Bass Flute
    Heckelphone
    Basset Horn
    Contrabass Clarinet
    Contrabass trombone
    Cimbasso
    Piccolo Trumpet
    Cornet
    Flugelhorn

    I await your answer.

  6. oiaohm says:

    http://www.studio-one.expert/studio-one-blog//the-30-best-sample-libraries-for-orchestral-scoring-2016
    The 30 Best Sample Libraries For Orchestral Scoring- 2016
    Such a joke of a title Wizard Emeritus.

    Simple question are any of those what you require to get Orchestra to perform your work? The answer is not one. In fact every one of the 30 lands your work in the reject bin for being the wrong sample set.

    The title should read
    The 30 best sample libraries for simulating an Orchestra when you cannot afford to employ an Orchestra .

    I guess you have sent in sample track with score before Wizard Emeritus then got no response. Yes using VSL in sample will see score not even read and dropped in bin at many Orchestras.

    http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/explore/make_music
    That is the sample set to have Philharmonia Orchestra perform you work. Exactly what is the point of scoring for a Orchestra using something that is not acceptable.

    If the list was serous about Orchestra scoring to get Orchestra to play it would have be list of sites like Philharmonia Orchestra Make Music.

    Its like handing in a assignment on US Letter size paper when A4 was mandated and wonder why you got a failing grade.

    There are tones of best of sites but the reality with Sample Sets is anyone working with real Orchestras have very little to no interest in any of the paid for Sample sets. The usable Orchestra Sample Sets for real Orechestra are FOSS or NDA at no cost. NDA at no cost is for composes to prep up tracks to guide conductor of that Orchestra and is not allowed to release the computer generated tracks to the general public.

    For what reason, to avoid spending the $1300.00 that I have spend over the past 10 years .
    That $1300.00 you have spent compared to a person who spends time knowing how to make up samples and your are both wanting a real Orchestra to perform your work what is the out come.

    The reality is the one who knows how to turn raws into a soundfont gets there work performed.

    The idiot who depends on money to solve problem ends up with his work in the bin. That is the reality of music world. Why is the person a idiot is because in the submit documentation state there sound set has to be used. Since this is never VSL exactly what advantage did you get from using VSL the answer is very little.

    Talking about finale score lay down tool having some feature that is nice has some merit. Talking about soundfont solutions really shows that you are not semi-pro at least. Semi-pro have to deal with the nightmare of turning raws into soundfonts so they can get stuff produced by real Orchestra when client asks for it.

    So I am not in fact telling you todo something you don’t have to do as part of semi-pro and professional work-flow. Only reason why you don’t have your own made up sound fonts that you have built over the years dealing with different Orchestras and are using VSL is that you are amateur Wizard Emeritus .

    Having a replacement to VSL laying around take years that is the reality of it. Problem is the replacement set ends up containing all the soundfonts that are mandated by the Orchestras you do business with.

    There is another reason why Orchestras mandate all submitted produced using the same raws. Its like unis mandating all assessments done on the same size paper and font. So there is not bias based on the tool used over the composers skill.

    Think for one min Wizard Emeritus how would you fell if you found out your wrote a perfectly good score and you lost getting it performed because you did not pay for a sound set. Could you not see an Orchestra sued for that.

    The fact Orchestra provide the raws for free in some form(NDA or FOSS) there is no excuse to not use what you are given. So proper production means you should have the skills to make sound fonts. Turns out discriminating against a person because they are lazy is legal.

    The reality to move from amateur to semi-pro these days equals starting to make your own sound font set. This is why not having VSL may not be a bad thing. Might start a person doing what they need so they can do semi-pro and pro work.

    As I said sticking to VSL may be doing a music person more harm than good. There is a lots of ways VSL causes harm.

    I will give Wizard Emeritus that Linux Audio world does not make it easy for Amateur class. The reality is Amateur class does pay for FOSS development.

    VSL is really example of something that if you are calling it a issue you don’t understand the requirements of the industry. Lots of sites out there have the best off that are just meant to trick amateurs out of their money they could have invested in better hardware and doing stuff correctly.

    OMG! The Wiz has nothing in his dead-tree library/garage/living room because no book/car/furniture is sufficiently encyclopaedic. Oh, wait. That’s just silly. Isn’t it?
    Such a correct Statement Robert.

    The commercial sound font sets go back to before the Internet had speed where you had to buy them on discs. Reality is different now. You can go to the Orchestra and download the sample set raws you are meant to use. Yes VSL is a hang over from the prior to Internet way of doing things. So yes VSL is very much like the old dead-tree libraries.

  7. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “OMG! The Wiz has nothing in his dead-tree library/garage/living room because no book/car/furniture is sufficiently encyclopaedic. Oh, wait. That’s just silly. Isn’t it?”

    OF course to someone who goes out and spends thousands of dollars and 100+ hours of his own time/efforton a Chinese piece of junk Tractor probably doesn’t understand paying even a modest price for what are deemed by people in that business as quality tools to accomplish the task at hand.

    How is that that repair of the charging circuit going BTW? Isn’t it fun trying to fix something without proper documentation?

  8. Dr Loser says:

    Oh, wait. That’s just silly. Isn’t it?

    Well, you said it before I could, Robert, but yes indeed. You are being even sillier than you usually are.

  9. DrLoser says:

    This is my problem VSL to open source composers looks more like a crutch that long term does you more harm than good.

    It might well be your problem, Princess. You may or may not wish to consult a professional for the relevant drugs and/or occupational therapy.

    But you’re not a professional musician. You’re not really a professional anything, unless you count being an incompetent electrician who cannot even wire a fence round a $1 million prize bull.

    Let’s face it, Princess. You have no knowledge, standing, or influence whatsoever when it comes to the requirements of either professional or serious amateur musicians.

    Just for once, admit this obvious fact and shut up.

    More harm than good?

    Bollocks.

  10. oiaohm wrote, “No single FOSS sample library has everything VSL has this is correct.”

    Wizard Emeritus replied, “And there you have it. So there really is nothing else to talk about”.

    OMG! The Wiz has nothing in his dead-tree library/garage/living room because no book/car/furniture is sufficiently encyclopaedic. Oh, wait. That’s just silly. Isn’t it?

  11. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus No single FOSS sample library has everything VSL has this is correct. ”

    And there you have it. So there really is nothing else to talk about

    “Wizard Emeritus this is someone who has published their own personal assembled set from the raw source audio that is laying around for those who bother to get it. Of course this set is still small.”

    You don’t seem to get it. I license what is considered as a professional grade sample library that works, NOW. Al music this library to make music that sounds the way that I want it to NOW. I am not only not impressed that some hobbyist musician built himself a small sample library, I think that he is an idiot for wasting his time doing to, especially given all of the choices he has of which below are only a sample:

    http://www.studio-one.expert/studio-one-blog//the-30-best-sample-libraries-for-orchestral-scoring-2016

    “This is my problem VSL to open source composers looks more like a crutch that long term does you more harm than good. Of course construction of own sound fonts from raw provides does hurt but they are your sound fonts with your fully in control.”

    Add this is supposed to mean exactly – what? That I am not working with professional tools because I do not want to spend time building my own sample libraries from scratch? For what reason, to avoid spending the $1300.00 that I have spend over the past 10 years . OR is it because some Linux troll and self-identified “expert” on music creation and production who is both an admitted liar and a demonstrated fraud declares that I am not using “professional” tools.

    Save your opinion for someone who respects it. As far as my challenge is concerned, you have lost.

  12. oiaohm says:

    https://musescore.com/groups/young-composers-group/discuss/172224

    Wizard Emeritus this is someone who has published their own personal assembled set from the raw source audio that is laying around for those who bother to get it. Of course this set is still small.

    This is the problem the quality of VSL in FOSS is out there. Issue there is no project for multi people to work on to turn all the FOSS licensed RAW data into a unified set to download. Please note this made set is what a Open Source composer does.

    Lot of FOSS produced music sound unique because they are using personally tweaked sound sets. The advantage of having access to the raw is that you can individually tweak notes.

    Wizard Emeritus so is it really doing you a favor to use VSL and sound like everyone else who is using VSL or would it give you more freedom and uniqueness to custom mix the set yourself.

    This is my problem VSL to open source composers looks more like a crutch that long term does you more harm than good. Of course construction of own sound fonts from raw provides does hurt but they are your sound fonts with your fully in control.

    There are many examples of different people building there own sound fonts for using FOSS composing software and they do professional grade work including stuff we hear in movies.

  13. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus No single FOSS sample library has everything VSL has this is correct. Problem is there there are a few hundred professionally recorded sample sets sources that are FOSS that are sample libraries in own right. Rascally a few hundred sample libraries of the same audio quality of VSL. I have given you the link to 1 set. If you get them all you will find combined they have more instrument types than VSL has. VSL is not that special if you put the work in to assemble own set from what is under FOSS license.

    I am not talking about music for 3d movies, nor am I interested in your “description” of what a small segment of what animation houses are doing to provide music for projects.
    Wizard Emeritus you might not like this. But the FOSS audio stuff is more designed for movie houses them than you. Because they pay FOSS audio programmers you don’t.

    So you want something like VSL on Linux in FOSS you have no option bar to follow the way movie houses do it. Because they are one paying. They are the ones requesting Orchestras provide sample sets and they have the money that Orchestras sit up a listen.

    Basically Wizard Emeritus you are request something where there is a equal in FOSS. Yes there is a equal to VSL in FOSS. Problem is you have to down load it from multipliable sites and assemble it yourself. Advantage the assembled set allows you to employ different groups to play your music.

    Are you really going to start reaching into your own pocket to get a preassmebled set made Wizard Emeritus? Remember the movie industry is not interested. They are 100 percent not interested in generic sample sets they are interested in doing software renderings of different groups to help decide what group to employ to produce what they want.

    The more you keep on say hey provide a VSL replacement when the top guys in movie just laugh at the idea as stupid and the bottom guys are not putting up any funds to have it the status quo is not going to change other than items like VSL getting more expensive.

    Question how long Wizard Emeritus will you be able to keep on paying for VSL before you cannot any more and then forced to follow what the movie industry does to get something decent and cheap.

    Most good quality FOSS is in fact done by professionals paid to make it. When something is FOSS does not suit the way you want you really need to look at who is footing the bill in that area and their work flow. Then at times accept the reality is if you want to use FOSS without paying you will have to follow their work flow.

    FOSS design is voted by who pays not those who don’t. Reality Wizard Emeritus you are asking us to find something that you are not voting in the FOSS world to have.

  14. Wizard Emeritus says:

    ” Stable no this is not the case. Music for 3d movies have found it more stable to use multi part assembly.”

    Irrelevant.

    I am not talking about music for 3d movies, nor am I interested in your “description” of what a small segment of what animation houses are doing to provide music for projects.

    Answering my challenge with the equivalent of telling me that Linux does HPC is not an answer no matter how you twist it.

    Casting me as an Amateur and pronouncing the tool that I requested as amateur is not an answer to my challenge.

    Calling me names is not an answer to my challenge.

    The fact remains Troll, that you do not and have never had an answer to my challenge because there is no FOSS sample library that comes even close to what is available from VSL.

    And Remember sir, my challenge only covered one of the key tools that woud need to have a FOSS equivalent available on linux only before I even considered moving to a linux desktop.

    Of course I am well aware that you will continue to call me all the names that you can and lie through your teeth in a pathetic attempt to avoid “losing” what you have already lost. It doesn’t matter.

    I have my answer from Robert Pogson – he failed the challenge.
    I also have your answer as well – you have failed the challenge.

    And that is that.

  15. oiaohm says:

    So I gather from the above that you are admitting that you have no FOSS equivalent in quality that you can point me towards. Of course you have, as usual, attempted to muddy those waters with a lot of made up nonsense. But since I know that you are an admitted liar and proven fraud, I know what parts of your post to disregard…
    Really i have not.

    My challenge to Robert Pogson was to provide me with the FOSS equivalent in quality of a particular piece of software that I am using now productively. And I am doing so in a windows desktop environment that is every bit as stable, secure and (I will wager) more user friendly than your linux desktop with its pile of FOSS software.

    Stable no this is not the case. Music for 3d movies have found it more stable to use multi part assembly.

    For sound font processing linuxsampler is not that out. The reality is to replace some individual pieces of software on another OS is using multi-able parts.

    Neither he nor the Linux troll known as oiaohm could do so.

    I in fact did provide you with how the replacement to VSL by the Pros is done. So not that I could not provide the method to remove the need to use VSL.

    Reality the need of VSL is nothing more than lack of experience dealing with Orchestra.

    DrLoser please stop fighting stuff without knowing crap. Go look up Philharmonia Orchestra contracting requirements you will find to your shock horror it use there sound samples to generate example of what you are after or they will not work for you.

    The reality when you are pro level dealing with Orchestras the value of VSL drops. The the skills to take Orchestra sample sets and make sound fonts becomes important.

    Basically Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! what DrLoser you are idiot who did not bother looking up what the reality is.

    The reason why FOSS does not have entry level item like VSL is simple. The high end pros don’t use it. The low and semi-pro and amateurs are too lazy to build something to replace VSL without the license restriction.

    Wizard Emeritus basically you have recycled the same arguement so many times I spent my time looking up research on it. As Wizard Emeritus has now admitted he is amateur level in audio. The problem is what the Pro level is using is different. Of course in time due to the effects from pro level amateurs normally end up being forced either to spend lots of money or follow how the pros do it. Reality when big houses like weta digital stop buying licenses in particular areas that income loss has to be made up some other way of course.

    As a (now) Amateur but still thoroughly trained musician and composer
    Problem is when trained. And when was the last time you contracted Orchestra to produce work. Starting about 7 years ago the trend to demanding you use their sample sets started. Before that using what ever you liked was permitted.

    Time does not stay still. Todays requirements on the top line pro is the means to make sample sets so they can in fact get production done.

    Remember, people use applications not operating systems.
    Not exactly true either for pro level in movie production. Why they have direct access to software developers so can have code customized to suite current project. So pro level is coming use the source to make the exact application they want. Not use Application provide by maker. This is becoming a big problem for the closed source software model. Particularly thinking the pro level groups have the means to buy companies out right.

    Why we see opentoon now being ported to Linux. Reality is Pro level want the software source code to customize so bug interfering with final product can be addressed on their time table not party making the software time table.

    Wizard Emeritus reality like or not not what happens at the Pro level does come down the tree. The time of being closed source dependent is ending in lots of the creative fields.

  16. DrLoser wrote, “Going anywhere near either a Microsoft EULA or any version of the GPL you care to name is not part of education, either way, Robert.”

    Indeed, those things are in our curriculum. Oh, they are not identified by those terms but I did supply “context”, like unboxing NIB PCs and having them try them out before installing GNU/Linux. The curriculum does emphasize several relevant points:

    • nomenclature – which I interpreted to mean licensing, licences, copyright, operating systems etc.
    • respect for copyright – in the digital age where copying is so easy, the curriculum does ask teachers to explain what can and can’t be copied. At this point, FLOSS looks pretty damned good to teenagers. They share everything, even spit, so software is just another item to share.
    • budgeting – most of the jurisdictions where I worked emphasize that students should not be taught subject matter in a vacuum, so I often had them work up a budget for personal expenditures, including IT, ISPs, software, gadgets, PCs and components. Students can understand very well that they could get twice as much IT for the money by using FLOSS. It’s a mixture of Grade 7/8 consumer maths and sums combined with the HS computer/IT curriculum. Students who cared about their own capabilities (some don’t…) felt empowered by the knowledge and skills to use that knowledge imparted.
    • I often got high marks in evaluations for knowing the subject and effectively educating students, by professional educators and parents and students alike. I even had one or two principals argue that I taught too much and that students could never absorb it all. Well, I had many students do it all and like it. Students would much rather be a bit overpowered in class than bored silly. I worked hard to make the former highly probable. I’ve had many students resist my efforts strongly at first only to thrive and exceed expectations by wide margins. e.g. Typically students are expected to type at some minimal speed with accuracy, say 40-50 wpm. I had one student who resisted for weeks only to finish doing 80wpm. Another student just popped into class one day and asked to switch to my class. She went on to college after starting by claiming she would never go to college and only graduated HS to please her parents. No, any student with ability and drive thrived in my classes. Even those with less ability and motivation were at least taught survival skills.
  17. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Case closed!”

    Nope. You left out two important assessments IMHO:

    The software/applications that the OS hosted met your needs.
    None of the FOSS substitutions that I had to make were deal breakers.

    Without these your “conversion” would have failed, because no amount of “stability” “security” and (sic) “User Friendliness” would have made up for the fact that you couldn’t get done what you used the computer to do.

    Remember, people use applications not operating systems.

    My challenge to Robert Pogson was to provide me with the FOSS equivalent in quality of a particular piece of software that I am using now productively. And I am doing so in a windows desktop environment that is every bit as stable, secure and (I will wager) more user friendly than your linux desktop with its pile of FOSS software.

    Neither he nor the Linux troll known as oiaohm could do so.

    So Mr. H. You are going to work a lot harder to make your case than what you posted.

    And remember Mr. H., a lot has changed in the windows world in 8 years…

  18. DrLoser says:

    And in a continuing series of examples of abject incompetent teaching:

    DrLoser wrote, “I would suggest that “rejoicing” is not unakin to “proselytizing.””

    A part-time teacher from the Frozen North wrote: Nonsense.

    Very possibly. Or not. Let us examine your pathetically flimsy evidence when you claim that “rejoicing” is not unakin to “proselytizing,” Robert. And let us do this in your own words.

    Teenagers have an acute sense of right and wrong.

    Bad start right there, Robert. If the world was run according to a teenage version of “right and wrong …” well, it might work out ok. But let’s face it, teenagers are not really people you would trust with the gears of industry.

    Even if they pop their blackheads first.

    Almost universally they felt the EULA was limiting what they could do with PCs and networks and servers while the GPL empowered them to do anything the hardware could manage.

    “Almost?” What, no absolute? Are you suddenly recalling opposition to your dictats? Oh, and by the way, you have no signed depositions for this. Your claim is nothing more than self-confirming guesswork, is it?

    And quite frankly there is nothing to limit the average student these days (in terms of hardware and networks and servers) even if they work in a Microsoft environment. This might have been true in your day, Robert (mostly because you proved yourself to be embarrassingly incompetent), but it ain’t true in 2016.

    In most schools, students don’t come anywhere near the EULA nor the GPL

    Going anywhere near either a Microsoft EULA or any version of the GPL you care to name is not part of education, either way, Robert.

    Unless you are a paranoid obsessive nutter who fails to recognise his own inadequacies.

    …but I made hundreds of students read and think about both.

    A very general skill in intellectual reasoning, obviously, and terrifically valuable to the average Manitoban who just needs a job involving, say, word processing and spreadsheets. Not. Not in any way whatsoever. You have intentionally hamstrung the prospects of the disadvantaged youths you were supposedly expected to help, haven’t you?

    By your own account, you have crippled the future of hundreds, if not thousands, of disadvantaged young men and women.

    You clearly have no clue how much of a monomaniac you are presenting yourself to be, do you?

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

  19. Mats Hagglund says:

    I used Windows during 1992-2008: disaster after disaster. After moving to Linux in spring 2008 it took just few weeks to make conclusions: it works, it’s stable, it’s secure and it’s user friendly.

    ” You shall know them by their fruits. ”

    Case closed!

  20. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I am a tolerant man, and I do not wish to pursue a total idiot with further examples of inadequacy.”

    Oh, please do give us further feedback My dear Doctor. As a (now) Amateur but still thoroughly trained musician and composer, I can assure you that Fifi’s “answer” to my challenge contained some of the most amazingly high quality bullshit on the topic that I have ever seen. It would be such a shame to let his efforts (such as they are) go without feedback of your high quality.

  21. Dr Loser says:

    I am a tolerant man, and I do not wish to pursue a total idiot with further examples of inadequacy.

    I have therefore chosen to ignore the standard Wall’O’Gibberish beyond the first couple of paragraphs.

    If called upon …

  22. Dr Loser says:

    Remember if you are going to get Philharmonia Orchestra to truly do the final play by real humans VSL is worthless.

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Please define “worthless,” Princess. Apart from any other possible definition, at no point has Wiz suggested that he expects to have a real orchestra playing his compositions.

    Your pathetic argument is null and void.

    The same applies to other Orchestras.

    Indeed, Princess. Gibberish is universal. You have a point here? What is it?

    You must use Orchestras sample or they do not perform your work.

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Give it up, you pathetic little wretch. Even by your miserable and ignorant standards, that is beneath the dignity of a cross-dressing part-time good-time girl under a dimly-lit lamp-post.

    But, perhaps you are correct, little feeb?

    Perhaps that is the way that one or more orchestras act?

    A single example, please, little feeble one.

  23. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “VSL has want is classed as the best pre assembled sound font collection. Its not the best sound font collection you can in fact have if you are willing to assemble yourself filling it with contractable groups using their raw sample sets.”

    So I gather from the above that you are admitting that you have no FOSS equivalent in quality that you can point me towards. Of course you have, as usual, attempted to muddy those waters with a lot of made up nonsense. But since I know that you are an admitted liar and proven fraud, I know what parts of your post to disregard…

    Which is most of it.

    So having admitted defeat, you can shut up now.

    P.S. I find it interesting that Robert Pogson has chosen not to put his two sense in on this topic. Perhaps he is smarter than you are.

  24. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus
    but having said that, am I to assume that you are implying that the combination of the free Philharmonia sample set and linuxsampler are superior to the equivalent virtual instruments from the VSL?

    yes or no?
    Remember if you are going to get Philharmonia Orchestra to truly do the final play by real humans VSL is worthless. The same applies to other Orchestras. You must use Orchestras sample or they do not perform your work. So Linuxsampler with custom sample font made from the Orchestras own reference samples of different real contactable Orchestras is vastly more useful than VSL that is a stack of samples of a stack of people you can not contract to perform your music to get real human flare.

    I would not say Philharmonia Orchestra alone is superior to VSL. Samples from groups you can in fact contract to perform you work give you a sample set broader and more diverse than VSL has.

    Wizard Emeritus before as a idiot you say someone in FOSS should make up reference sound fonts using the Orchestra provided samples please remember each Orchestra is allowed to alter their site at any time. Next update there acceptable sample sets at any time. Reality you must know how to take sample sets as the Philharmonia Orchestra and others then turn those into usable sound fonts or you have limitations on who you can contract.

    Vienna MIR PRO will not take in architectural models. There model is not based off a virtual space instead off a sample and calculated space in fact 5,000 individual sample point limit. Sorry Wizard Emeritus you counter arguement is not solid at all it about time you shut up. The fun about using the the true virtual space 3d space models based of architectural models is you can in fact insert stage props with different audio profiles to alter things. Good thing to show its virtual create a room in blender3d or could even be http://www.sweethome3d.com/ then attempt to set up Vienna Mir Pro to play in this virtual non existing room. At this point you wake up VSL does not in fact support true virtual 3d space only rooms.

    I clearly typed “virtual 3d space” not a virtual emulation of a real physical space by using sampled information. Virtual 3d space allows you to get blue prints of hall that has not been sampled and construct something like it. Of course Wizard Emeritus the novice he is about this term thinks a sample generated emulation is the same thing its not.

    http://www.attr-x.net/yse/# is one of the open source items that can in fact work with completely virtual. Please note one its not the best out there.

    After all the times you have insulted me Wizard Emeritus why would I give you the complete solution. Basically you are a audio amateur and don’t know it. You have not been contracting work out in volume with competing bids to different Orchestras to know how worthless VSL is. Or that a lot of the Orchestras will be performing in halls that have never been sampled so the best you will have is the plans of the hall. VSL set has some serous limitations once you get into serous level work when you have serous money to play with.

    VSL has want is classed as the best pre assembled sound font collection. Its not the best sound font collection you can in fact have if you are willing to assemble yourself filling it with contractable groups using their raw sample sets. Reviews never bother putting VSL head to head with all the non NDA sample sets provided from Orchestras that are professionally recorded. There is no kick backs for that. That is the problem anyone who has had dealing with the top level guys knows that VSL being missing is not a deal breaker to the top level guys as they basically never use it.

    Wizard Emeritus I think there are a lot of people like you who have go them selves stuck at the lower level because you have not bothered learning how simple from professional provide sample raw sample sets it is to make sound fonts of different types so expanding the numbers of sources for sound font sets they can use. VSL dependence is basically admitting you are working with at least 1 hand tide behind back.

  25. DrLoser wrote, ” You have never once mentioned a school that took you on because they were looking for a FLOSS expert. You now seem to be claiming that at least one school did so.”

    Of course, I advertised FLOSS and GNU/Linux heavily on my resume and in my prime I always had offers of employment. Typically, when looking for a new position I only had to send out two or three resumes. When I first worked as a Computers teacher, the principal even paid for a terminal server out of his funds. There never was any question of running TOOS on it. He was indeed upset when the IT-guys did install TOOS after I left. My replacement was already up to speed but they did it anyways. In another case, I offered a solution giving the school nearly double the value in IT budget for using FLOSS. What we saved on licensing we spent on hardware and were the envy of many educational professionals who dropped by. That was part of a new school and they hadn’t a large enough budget to do the job with TOOS so they used GNU/Linux and LTSP. It worked very well even after I left, for many years. Another school had only half their PCs working when I arrived and I got all but one working with FLOSS. The other was really dead, not just unable to boot TOOS. We also added 52 additional PCs using GNU/Linux for very little cost (cast-offs from businesses in Winnipeg), so the school expanded IT by a good factor for a couple of $K for freight. I also got better networking for no extra cost just by asking the ISP for it. I was a bargain.

  26. Dr Loser says:

    Nonsense. I’ve mentioned several times that OpenOffice.org and Audacity were used in schools up north before I arrived, not in all but in some. They used it on TOOS and it was familiar to them on GNU/Linux.

    In other words, you walked into schools that happened to run FLOSS software converted for use on Microsoft Windows. This is not shocking news, Robert. I imagine it is almost universal. The point is, they were still using Windows until you trashed their platform.

    My point still stands. You have never once mentioned a school that took you on because they were looking for a FLOSS expert. You now seem to be claiming that at least one school did so.

    Are you prepared to stand by this claim?

  27. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Oh, Yes and BTW.

    “Simple question Wizard Emeritus when was the last time you did audio resonance to a virtual 3d space so that the sound track sounds more real. ”

    Had you bothered to actually do your homework on VSL you would have reconsidered your foolish attempt to interject into my challenge to Robert Pogson.

    https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Software_Package/Vienna_MIR_PRO

    THe availability of the above software is one of the reasons that I Invested in VSL in the first place. hen I need to actually work with something more advanced than the room plunk I use now, I will simply plunk down my cash and go on.

    With no need to have to dick around with the kind of half-assed FOSS solutions you would propose.

    It’s time to shut up now sir.

  28. wizard emeritus says:

    once again when faced with putting up or shutting up, you attempt to lie your way out of having to admit the truth. my challenge which was made within the context of robert pogsons post, was actually more germane than all your ignorant blathering about what digital video productions are supposedly doing in the area of virtual musical instruments.

    but having said that, am I to assume that you are implying that the combination of the free Philharmonia sample set and linuxsampler are superior to the equivalent virtual instruments from the VSL?

    yes or no?

  29. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus come on claiming a win by altering topic.
    http://mrpogson.com/2016/03/31/legacy-pcs-continue-nose-diving-in-2016/#comment-338976

    Reality is Weta Digital and other guys are not interested in VSL stuff. You should have to admit now there are parties using FOSS and NDA locked sample sets to produce music. It is a different class to you. They have the money to have custom made sample sets.

    Of course not all those sample sets made for Weta Digital and the like are under NDA.

    Lets say some 3d house is going to use Philharmonia Orchestra UK for the final real human play. http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/explore/make_music Require samples are sitting right here so you can use Philharmonia Orchestra samples instead of generic like VSL. This is more knowing where to look. You will notice Philharmonia Orchestra in a lot of movie credits of course it makes sense when you know how simple it is to get their sample set.

    Yes this FOSS is different to VSL where engine and samples are joined. Of the open license stuff it more work as the samples and the engine to exploit them will be two part you have to have the skill to join.

    Wizard Emeritus basically at the 3d movie studio audio level taking a stack of samples making them into Linuxsampler format and using them is status normal. Samples sets are provided by different Orchestras world wide professionally recorded. So that stage is done for you. Taking those audio files and turning them into something that can be feed midi information requires some work but not too much. Result is lots and lots of different players with different instruments all without any Digital rights management stuff in your system.

    Of course 3d audio space using architectural models is something you have never done.

    Wizard Emeritus reality there is a level above you. They do things differently. They have no interest in stuff like VSL.

    I guess the next thing I will get from Wizard Emeritus complaining that what I have suggested is too much effort. Sorry Wizard Emeritus they why real Orchestras hand over just raw audio files to build sample sets from is they are not going to waste their time making a sample set for X engine then have end user ask for sample set in Y for Y engine and so on and lose a gig because of it. Instead real Orchestras do here is the raw audio you turn it into a functional sample set. Yes you have already said its too hard for you to produce a sample set your self that told me you were an amateur Wizard Emeritus.

    Basically by showing that you are Dependant on VSL shows me that you don’t work with the high in pro Orchestras since VSL is worthless at producing a close enough match and will get the conductor rejecting your scores because audio file made how you think it should be played is by the wrong sample set. So are either Amateur or at best semi-pro not a top of a line professional in the Audio world.

  30. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Also just to show how Little Wizard Emeritus as bothered trying.”

    I asked for the equivalent in quality of VSL. Robert Pogson could not produce anything more than his usual canned paean to the joys of FOSS., and all you have been able to produce is a load of irrelevant baloney that talks about what I am missing by not running some half assed solution on Linux.

    Remember,sir. I am happily productive creating music now. I do not need to “try” anything because my solution meets my needs. This conversation was a challenge to Robert Pogson that he (once again) failed. Ad now it is time for you to admit failure as well.

  31. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus the answer is not no. The issue here is out of Roberts list depending on sample set Garritan uses SFZ that just happens to be what Linuxsampler users. Ok it depends on the sample set if it works perfectly or not on Linux running native. Interesting point is in some cases Garritan sample set has codes that their default player does not support yet Linuxsampler has. So if you are using Garritan sample sets and you are not trying the sample sets using open source solution you can be missing out.

    Also just to show how Little Wizard Emeritus as bothered trying.

    The reality is VSL has in the worked and it working again with ardour, LMMS….on Linux.

    The format VSL uses is Kontakt. Kontakt 5.4 broke 5.5 is back working again. The extra DRM in 5.4 effected windows users as well as everyone else.

    It would be nicer if VSL release a Linux plugin so Windows vst did not have to be wrapped. Yes welcome to the strangeness of ardour it supports windows vst files under Windows and Linux yet not under OS X.

    Some sound set solutions don’t work at all under Linux by any means and these should in fact worry you as a Windows user. Most common reason is using a Windows kernel mode driver for DRM of course that can cause performance issues under Windows and some in fact conflict under windows when you install 2 different vendors. Worst is when the DRM decides your newly made song is a sample set of theirs and will not allow it to be copied so lots of effort fighting the machine just to get your song.

    There are some serous advantages to using your own sourced sample sets that are not DRM protected. Lets just complain that its too hard to have this stuff under Linux instead of understand why it failing under Linux and the side effects this can cause you even if you never run Linux.

  32. DrLoser wrote, “I would suggest that “rejoicing” is not unakin to “proselytizing.””

    Nonsense. Teenagers have an acute sense of right and wrong. Almost universally they felt the EULA was limiting what they could do with PCs and networks and servers while the GPL empowered them to do anything the hardware could manage. In most schools, students don’t come anywhere near the EULA nor the GPL but I made hundreds of students read and think about both. I empowered students and they rejoiced. I was pleased that several recognized that knowing GNU/Linux would be helpful in their careers and several chose to study computer-related subjects in college because of the exposure I gave them. e.g. One very sharp young lady informed me that she wanted to be veterinarian. I identified several useful technologies that would help in that profession like the usual desktop stuff and databasery. Initially she had little interest in those but when she realized that FLOSS could supply her with software that would work for her and not limit what she did with it, she happily designed databases for inventory, contacts, transactions and such. At that same school students and teachers not using GNU/Linux could barely print because the IT-people failed to configure things properly and did not respond appropriately to my trouble-tickets due to two totally useless layers of bureaucracy. That problem was not fixed until after I resigned in December. It was hard to teach with visitors to the lab asking me for help during my lessons. So, folks saw GNU/Linux running smoothly on 64MB machines where XP struggled.

  33. DrLoser also wrote, “First time you’ve graced us with that knowledge. I would have thought that, one way or another, even casually, you might have mentioned it a little earlier in your crusade.”

    Nonsense. I’ve mentioned several times that OpenOffice.org and Audacity were used in schools up north before I arrived, not in all but in some. They used it on TOOS and it was familiar to them on GNU/Linux. I also found several servers with GNU/Linux already in use by the IT-folks for firewall/print/file-sharing sort of tasks. FLOSS works for ordinary people. Where I was a pioneer was introducing usage of GNU/Linux on the desktop and with thin clients.

  34. DrLoser wrote, “you didn’t, did you?”

    While I was teaching, I consciously avoided mentioning too many details. Afterwards, I wrote about them without naming names. Most schools where I taught had P4ish machines with XP in 512MB and 40gB storage. They would seek all over the hard drive for 1:30 to 2:00 just getting to a usable desktop. GNU/Linux always beat the time as thick clients and blew them away as thin clients. Students loved the fact that LibreOffice would be ready to go 2s after a click while TOOS+ M$’s office suite was a good 15s or so. It was no contest. Then we got to reliability. Folks new XP would BSOD frequently and in all the years I used GNU/Linux there were only one or two cases where an individual lost a file (power failuure). I even remember my first instance of GNU/Linux thin clients replacing Lose ’98. Folks used to lose files hourly with TOOS and never with GNU/Linux. Folks loved that. QED

  35. Dr Loser says:

    Apologies for that, Robert: the last two posts were somehow mangled by Chrome — I’m not blaming Chrome, it could as easily have been IE — as coming from some random name called qquote. Weirdly, no reboot or other action was involved.

    Feel free to resurrect them from the bin or not, at your choice.

  36. qquote says:

    I arrived in several schools where FLOSS was already accepted.

    Really, Robert? Really?

    First time you’ve graced us with that knowledge. I would have thought that, one way or another, even casually, you might have mentioned it a little earlier in your crusade.

    After all, you’re all for Flawless FLOSS victory.

    I would imagine that, as a teacher of scientific subjects, being able to walk in to a school that already embraced FLOSS would make your CV/resume perfect!

    Indeed, if I were you, I would have spent the last ten years bragging about it.

    But you didn’t, did you?

  37. qquote says:

    I’ve often shown students and teachers GNU/Linux and TOOS on identical hardware side by side and GNU/Linux won every time.

    Interesting, Robert.

    Describe a single one of those experiments, please.

  38. Dr Loser says:

    So, if I have them read the EULA and be limited by it, that is teaching, but if I have them read the GPL and rejoice in it, That is proselytising?

    “Rejoice?” I would suggest that “rejoicing” is not unakin to “proselytizing.”

    Nevertheless, Robert, my claim was that you have not expended coin on advancing FLOSS.

    Your particularly weird claim was that you were paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so.

    I note that you have not bothered yourself to reconcile these two propositions.

    You really don’t put your money where your mouth is, do you?

  39. DrLoser wrote, “one is paid to teach. Not to proselytize.
     
    I’m sure that you were a fine Physics teacher. But when it came to IT, you forced your own choices down your students’ throats.”

    So, if I have them read the EULA and be limited by it, that is teaching, but if I have them read the GPL and rejoice in it, That is proselytising? Hmmm… Can you say “hypocrisy”, boys and girls? I’ve often shown students and teachers GNU/Linux and TOOS on identical hardware side by side and GNU/Linux won every time. That’s not forcing down throats but giving choice. You can count on the fingers of one hand those who objected, out of thousands. I arrived in several schools where FLOSS was already accepted. It was pretty easy to gently offer FLOSS on a grand scale. It works for people.

  40. Dr Loser says:

    I was paid fairly well in recent years to spread the word about FLOSS to students.

    First of all, Robert, that was the Man paying you. I repeat, you’ve never once spent your own money to support FLOSS, have you?

    And secondly, my understanding of the teaching profession (gleaned at second hand as a member of an extended teaching family who have been in the business for four generations) is that one is paid to teach. Not to proselytize.

    I’m sure that you were a fine Physics teacher. But when it came to IT, you forced your own choices down your students’ throats.

    That is not teaching, Robert. That is propaganda.

  41. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “That some guy on the ‘net rails about it not being good enough is his problem not ours.”

    Nope. I am not the one calling people “slaves” for not preferring his “good enough”solution. I have a quality solution that I paid for and which do what I need it them to.

    You are the one who failed to come up with anything other than excuses when asked to put up or shut up on a FOSS equivalence to VSL.

    So now I guess you can shut up.

  42. DrLoser wrote, “you’ve never even paid a single Loon to support that effort, have you, Bob?”

    Nonsense! I was paid fairly well in recent years to spread the word about FLOSS to students. I emphasized FLOSS prominently in my resume and had several offers per year when I was in my prime. I introduced thousands of students to FLOSS and was paid $hundreds of thousands to do that. Increasing the user-base and installed-base of FLOSS is supporting the FLOSS communities. I’ve also filed a few bug-reports and built some software from source and got it to work on diverse hardware and software systems and networks. I’ve done a lot of testing and feedback.

  43. Dr Loser says:

    I guess the Wiz doesn’t realize that FLOSS can be commercial.

    Quite to the contrary.

    Dozens, hundreds, even thousands of commercial, professional, programmers (and testers and so on) will support your point. And in many cases (say, Google or Red Hat), the pittance that they are paid for their intellectual effort actually results in a pay check.

    But you’ve never even paid a single Loon to support that effort, have you, Bob?

    You’re simply a pathetic little leech who relies on the rest of the community to pay up for your miserly beliefs.

  44. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “Funny how all of those listed are as far as I can see commercial, and non-FOSS.”

    Well, who knows what software they used to generate those? Lots of folks make beautiful music with FLOSS. That was made with museScore and some others. It works for them. That some guy on the ‘net rails about it not being good enough is his problem not ours.

  45. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “all of those listed are as far as I can see commercial, and non-FOSS”

    As a FLOSS-hater, I guess the Wiz doesn’t realize that FLOSS can be commercial. e.g. Linux has $millions invested by many businesses annually. Folks like Samsung depend on Linux and make it work for them. Samsung has hired literally thousands of developers for Linux to put it into millions to TVs, fridges and stoves as well as consumer electronics.

  46. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “There is no monopoly on quality or diversity. Someone can always come along and make something better.”

    Funny how all of those listed are as far as I can see commercial, and non-FOSS.
    But I am a patient man, all you have to do is show me the FOSS equivalent in quality and realism of VSL.

  47. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “The fact remains that there is no FOSS sample library anywhere near the quality of what Vienna Symphonic Library offers, let alone that Libraries other commercial competitors.”

    That sounds like the kind of BS salesmen use. Others’ opinions may differ. e.g. Studio One Expert (The 30 Best Sample Libraries for Orchestral Scoring 2016): “The sheer number of companies producing top-quality software for orchestral sampling has increased substantially of late, and there are more options now for the digital composer than ever before in this ever-expanding ecosystem. We in the audio tech world revel in choice and variety, not least so when it comes to virtual instruments. The quantity and quality of libraries available is frankly staggering.”

    There is no monopoly on quality or diversity. Someone can always come along and make something better.

  48. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus commonly used …”

    So once again you have no answer for me other than your cretinous opinion. The fact remains that there is no FOSS sample library anywhere near the quality of what Vienna Symphonic Library offers, let alone that Libraries other commercial competitors.

    If all you have to offer is bullshit, then you may as well shut up now sir.

  49. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus commonly used by Weta Digital is linuxsampler with samples that artists in Orchestras they use had to produce as part of their interview process for the Orchestra. Yes professionally made sample set matching the Orchestras they use of course they don’t share that.

    Using something like Vienna Symphonic Library is to Weta Digital and the like classed as amateur hour and highly costly in operational time.

    Most people are not aware most cases the audio streams in 3d animation has to be produced before the final 3d render due to the fact 3d render and audio has to align.

    Using something like Vienna Symphonic Library instead of a professionally made sample set matched to the Orchestras you use can result in days of mucking around because the sound is not quite right. Can be as simple as person has 2 violins and for this song they need the other one to the one they had. Remember days of mucking around in audio will result in budget blow out in that area.

    Like it or not Vienna Symphonic Library is amateur hour. Top professional will be after sample sets perfectly matched to the artists they are going to have perform the song to attempt to detect issues before you have everyone there attempt to perform it.

    Lot of Artists on sample sets made from them place NDA license on them basically places like Weta agree to NDA or the Artist will not produce/provide sample set or work for them.

    Wizard Emeritus reality is you have said you don’t want to have to make these sample sets yourself. The problem is that is exactly what top line professionals in movie audio mandate happen is that sample sets are made matching the artists they are working with.

    What is produced for amateur level work should never be claimed as what pros should be using. Does FOSS have all the tools to make pro-grade sample sets yes it does. Is a sample set for a Artist you don’t in fact have the right to use doing you any good. The answer is no it does not. Why you compose for what you hear from the Artist sample who you cannot use then demand the Artist you can use to play like the Artist you cannot have. Result is the artist you have does not get to use there own abilities to the best.

    Reality Vienna Symphonic Library has made the music world lot flatter and missing lots of individual flare.

  50. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus this is why…”

    SO can you demonstrate a piece of FOSS software that is superior to what Vienna Symphonic Library offers sir, because none of what you are babbling about has any relevancy to the challenge that I peoposed to Robert Pogson, which he lost.

    Put up or shut up.

  51. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus this is why you are such a novice Weta Digital and Pixar use 3d audio production. Now those are on a totally different level. Orchestral emulation who plays around with that garbage at their level. They use a real Orchestra to produce feed tracks.

    To them Vienna Symphonic is pointless cost cutting because you don’t get the skills of the artists.

    Wizard Emeritus like it or not to big audio production groups you are amateur hour. Paying to have a Orchestra make the sound to them is a minor cost to weta digital and pixar. This is why hanging out with these groups you have totally different point of view..

    Now have 3d acoustics to alter the sound to seen is vastly more important Weta Digital and Pixar.

    It is important understand this.

    Opentoon, lightworks, blender3d and others you are seeing production houses buy out closed source company and open sourcing them. Mostly to let more developers to work on them.

    If Vienna Symphonic Library was classed as important to the major movie production houses one of them by now would have either attempted a serous clone or attempted to buy it out. So serous-ally one day a production house might look at Vienna Symphonic Library and go cool lets buy that. In fact lack of Linux support protects Vienna Symphonic Library from being a higher target of interest to be acquired.

    kurkosdr
    But haven’t achieved it yet because they don’t have access to RHEL’s proprietary software. RedHat maintains revenue because of that. Proprietary software bits.
    Redhat advantage is they know how to use FOSS properly. You want early access to redhat tested updates you will be subscribed with redhat.

    This is not Proprietary software bits. Read the GPL license carefully you are only required to provide source code to your clients. Even better you are not even required to do it for free you are in fact allowed to charge the clients costs.

    DrLoser
    And even given that. If you are a producer of non-FLOSS software, and it is somehow entangled in the iniquitous toils of GPLv3, you have no rights to charge anything at all.
    Wrong please read GPLv3. You can charge for early access to any future updates to the code base. GPLv3 does not say you have to publish source code open to everyone only have to provide source to your own registered customers(hello list to sell to advertising company for profit). Those who don’t pay or register will risk missing out on early access to security updates and the like. This is the Redhat model that works.

    GPLv3 really only says you can not put a independent fee on for the source code. GPLv3 does not say you cannot charge for “Object code” and provide source code as a freebie to those who paid for the “Object code”.

    2 idiots gets it wrong. There are ways to make money off Foss and in fact its written into GPLv3 if you read it carefully. Most people miss that “Object code” in all versions of GPL have no limit on how little or how much you charge for it. Also miss that only those who are buying “object code” from you have to be provided with updates in a timely manner from you. Redhat worked this out very early.

    Now there is another factor to consider when you say GNU and others will not get the extra money going forwards.

    So when a builder makes a door should they be paid for every person who walks though it? This is a serous question. Lot of people working on Linux Kernel and GNU projects has been in fact paid for their services. So charging a second time would technically be double dipping.

    There is a key side to the fact they have been paid for their services that many over look. Since they were paid todo something and now they have completed it until someone pays them again they are not technically required todo anything. The large number of abandoned projects come out of this. Hey we can use X for free we have to pay nothing to the developers result is project becomes abandoned because no one paid. Lot making FOSS software also miss that they can provide binaries and charge for them.

    You can think of FOSS source code as a beer recipe and the binary is the beer coming out a tap that might be free or might be charged for yet the person selling the beer has no requirement to tell anyone who is not their customer the recipe. Having a beer recipe does not the costs in quality control will magically disappear if you attempt to replicate the beer using the beer recipe.

    Profit from FOSS does require a level of investment and understanding legal.

  52. kurkosdr says:

    Isn’t that precisely what Oracle is doing, with its Oracle Linux distribution?

    But haven’t achieved it yet because they don’t have access to RHEL’s proprietary software. RedHat maintains revenue because of that. Proprietary software bits.

  53. luvr says:

    kurkosdr wrote, “Which brings the question: Why someone hasn’t tried to cha-ching RedHat? Pocketing even half, scrap that, a third of what Red Hat makes per customer would be a sweet thing.”

    Isn’t that precisely what Oracle is doing, with its Oracle Linux distribution?

  54. kurkosdr says:

    Pog, let me introduce you to something called “arbitrage”. No, it’s not some new vegetable for hipsters, it’s a term of economics. Don’t be afraid, it’s basic economics, learning what it means won’t make you an evil investment banker or anything (it didn’t make me, that’s for sure).

    Anyway, let’s go: Arbitrage basically means that if the cost of acquiring something is 10 dollars, and some person sells it for 80 dollars, you can go ahead and sell it for 30 dollars and pocket that sweet 20 dollar profit margin a piece, and undercut him. Since there aren’t any barriers-to-entry, you can just go ahead and do it. Sure, the first days will be rough as you build trust among buyers, with only one or two risk-taking guys and gals trusting you the first day, but soon enough word of mouth that you are selling the same thing for much less will spread and you will be selling like crazy. Cha-ching!

    (the keyword above being “the same thing”)

    Which brings the question: Why someone hasn’t tried to cha-ching RedHat? Pocketing even half, scrap that, a third of what Red Hat makes per customer would be a sweet thing. After all, as you admit, the cost of acquring their source code is 0$ (or minimal shipping and handling). So, there must be some value in RHEL that nobody else can acquire easily and which allows RedHat to charge that much. And do you know what it is? Cold, evil proprietary support software.

    Do you know what the only business model that works with FLOSS is? As LH once put it, that business model is “being some search engine’s b*tch”. I like how he even predicted crapware like Amazon in Ubuntu ( http://linuxhaters.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/bms.html ). The business model works because for the customer, the product is free, hence he doesn’t have to look for the alternative.

    Now, if there was some OS following that business mod… oh yeah there is and it’s called Android. It’s designed from top to bottom to push people to Google services and proprietary Google apps. Freedom!

  55. Wizard Emeritus says:

    ” The creator can’t charge for subsequent copies from recipients but he’s still made the world a better place for himself and everyone else.”

    Its a nice fantasy Robert Pogson, but it has zero to do with reality of the use of Open source in business. What is happening is that the creator of software aimed at business and enterprise builds value added onto the bare bones of some FOSS framework, then sells the closed bits, their support and customization services. They may also keep their “creds” with the community by open sourcing those frameworks/libraries. Anyone who wants to use the software in question can download the framework and build their own version of value Add needed to effectively use the software. IN the meanwhile those businesses who have neither the resources or the desire to roll their own just pony up for the commercial components, leaving the Community edition for those who are happy to get something for nothing.

    As you say, its all good.

  56. Dr Loser says:

    No. The creator of the work can demand payment for the initial release or a contract to produce it, and the result can still be FLOSS.

    And that happens, how often, Robert?

    Let’s see. I suppose you could count Red Hat employees, but they’re on a pittance compared to Red Hat shareholders. And outside Red Hat, you really don’t have any leverage at all.

    And even given that. If you are a producer of non-FLOSS software, and it is somehow entangled in the iniquitous toils of GPLv3, you have no rights to charge anything at all.

    This isn’t like making your first million and giving back to the world by offering your software for free, Robert. It’s unavoidable highway robbery.

    I notice we’re still fixated on the “free to use and free to redistribute” theme that closet misers like yourself love so much, btw. It would be much less palatable if any of you “gave back” by “examining and modifying.”

    Anybody can use, Robert. Drug addicts do it all the time. And anybody can redistribute, Robert. Drug dealers do it all the time.

    Examining and modifying, now — that takes actual effort. Maybe one out of a hundred FLOSS enthusiasts (not actually paid by, say, Red Hat to do so) can make that effort.

    You, Robert, are in the lesser 99%, and always will be. Just a greedy sucking parasite on the side of FLOSS.

  57. kurkosdr wrote, “FOSS can be sold only if there is some value added proprietary software that violates the freedoms to examine, modify and redistribute.”

    No. The creator of the work can demand payment for the initial release or a contract to produce it, and the result can still be FLOSS. The creator can’t charge for subsequent copies from recipients but he’s still made the world a better place for himself and everyone else.

  58. DrLoser wrote, “Red Hat has no monopoly on FLOSS software. And yet they are coining it, and have essentially no competition in their chosen markets.”

    In your dreams. RedHat’s too… There is plenty of competition in FLOSS. It’s just that RedHat has become the big dog on the block. e.g. every community will have some small operator providing similar services for lower costs. e.g. Debian GNU/Linux is the most popular web-serving platform. See also Top 10 Linux Server Distributions of 2015.

  59. Dr Loser says:

    I’m still musing over this thought:

    Do you know why corporations pay the rough equivalent of a Microsoft license fee to subscribe to Red Hat’s offerings, when they can “theoretically” get FLOSS for free?

    Note that this is an entirely different sort of question to “Why do corporations choose Windows over Linux [in many circumstances]” The answer to that is, of course, that Microsoft and Intel have forged an unbreakable illegal monopoly.

    But last time I checked, Red Hat has no monopoly on FLOSS software. And yet they are coining it, and have essentially no competition in their chosen markets.

    Now why would that be?

  60. kurkosdr says:

    “Free is not about price but Freedom to run, examine, modify and distribute… How many times to I have to shout that before your hear? Oh, you’re deaf… I understand.”

    But sir, if I have the freedom to redistribute, then it becomes free of cost because someone will choose to redistribute it for free or maybe for cost of shipping and handling.

    Realistically, FOSS can be sold only if there is some value added proprietary software that violates the freedoms to examine, modify and redistribute. See Play Store/ Play Services, RedHat’s proprietary or obfuscated support code and the like.

  61. ram says:

    “Free is not about price but Freedom to run, examine, modify and distribute… How many times to I have to shout that before your hear? Oh, you’re deaf… I understand.”

    Good reply! He’s a troll. The machine I pointed out is very very much smarter than him. What these things will do in financial markets, media, and genetic engineering will be very “entertaining”.

  62. kurkosdr says:

    Surely not because they break or become obsolete. Gnu/Linux/Android would never permit such a thing to happen.

    Well, to be perfectly honest, early smartphones where miserable little devices with Cortex A7 one-core CPUs and 512MB of RAM. Even if you account for no OS overhead, this is barely enough to run a browser decently, so they had an expiration date written all over them. Of course, Android 2.x made the experience nigh-unbearable.

    What annoys me is perfectly capable devices (anything with 1GB of RAM and a dual-core) which are not security patched. Those devices are ticking time-bombs really.

    Not to mention that even if they get one upgrade (yes, one, that’s how much you get on average), everything from H.264 acceleration to GPS support is bound to break.

    Android is an OEM’s dream really. Mandating planned obsolesce. Meanwhile, my HP Compaq nx9420 went from Windows XP, to Windows Vista to Windows 7 without losing support for a single integrated peripheral. Even HP-specific stuff which didn’t have Windows 7 drivers (hard drive protection and quick launch buttons) worked with the Windows Vista drivers perfectly. I mean, not a single problem. Also, in the mobile front, with the exception of the idiocy known as Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8 devices will get Windows 10. Ahh… driver back compat doing it’s sweet sweet magic again.

    Meanwhile, try to get from one Android version to the next (using a custom ROM) and count how much stuff breaks…

    OEM’s dream.

    PS: But anyway, it appears we are stuck with the stupid thing known as Android, Microsoft has thrown in the towel in pocket-friendly devices ( http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11333378/microsoft-windows-phone-windows-mobile-plans ) So, I will give you a tip when buying Android devices: Avoid anything with the word “Tegra” on it like the plague. Nvidia just doesn’t have the manpower to release drivers often enough to follow the Linux treadmill. Their chips enjoy MediaTek-levels of driver non-support while somehow finding their ways into flagship-priced devices. Even Nexus devices with Tegra are the first to lose upgrade support from their generation, and always have unexplained driver bugs (see Pixel C). Instead, look for Qualcomm-equipped devices. And that’s how the word “Qualdroid” came to be.

  63. Dr Loser says:

    Just to resuscitate an old post that you made no adequate answer to, Robert: says Kurks —

    But rest assured your purchase will be counted as growth in smartphone sales so FOSSies can brag about it in their blogs.

    Good point, that.

    You, Robert, have run your ancient hardware practically into the ground, for a wonderful bonus of around ten or more years lifetime.

    I, Robert, and I am hardly unique in this, have been running my underpowered little Windows 10 desktop (nee “Windows 7”) for about six years.

    Obviously, neither one of us shows up on the stats for computer purchases. But, and this is something you go on and on and on about … smartphones do.

    Which is interesting, really. Why do people keep buying these things, year after year after year?

    Surely not because they break or become obsolete. Gnu/Linux/Android would never permit such a thing to happen.

  64. Dr Loser says:

    Given your primitive understanding of why consumers make the choices they do, Robert …
    … If I were you, I’d stick with slowly parboiling frogs, and shooting potential customers in the head.
    There’s no justification for either, but on the other hand there’s no justification for anything at all that you suggest, either.

  65. Dr Loser says:

    Just to pursue that thought, Robert, since it evidently has not occurred to you. (Or else you are hiding the obvious truth from yourself.)

    Do you know why corporations pay the rough equivalent of a Microsoft license fee to subscribe to Red Hat’s offerings, when they can “theoretically” get FLOSS for free?

    Well, do you?

    Have a think and let us know your no doubt fascinating ideas on this little conundrum.

  66. Dr Loser says:

    Uh,,, RedHat? Ever heard of them? They sell subscriptions for a pretty penny and anyone can get most of the source code.

    One tiny little issue with that, Robert, is that you are not Red Hat. There is only one Red Hat. You are (to pursue your fantasy sales scenario) a puny little guy with a boffo software proposition living in the boonies. Red Hat is a billion dollar a year company.

    Let me illustrate my point as follows, just to ensure that you grasp it fully.

    Who developed the Gnu toolchain? Clue: Not Red Hat.

    Who developed the original Linux kernel? Clue: Not Red Hat.

    Who is making a billion dollars a year out of the Gnu toolchain and the Linux kernel?

    Clue … not the original developers.

    And to think that Red Hat managed all this by simply ripping FLOSS off, rather than following your more logical proposition of charging each and every customer a paltry $4,000 per download?

    O, the Humanity!

  67. wizard emeritus says:

    make that:

    “and that your ability to uderstand what you have examined is as far as we can determine equaly limited…”

  68. wizard emeritus says:

    “Free is not about price but Freedom to run, examine, modify and distribute…”

    But we have already demomnstrated that you are incapble of making let alone maintaining modifications of the actual code, and that you ability to uderstand what you have examined is as far as we can determins equaly unlimited. That leaves those only the two freedoms that really count – Run and distribute.

    So Robert Pogson cheapskate can make and run as many copies of FOSS as he wishes and not plunk down a dime towards its upkeep. And the 4 freedoms that he espouses are nothing but a smokescreen.

    This having been said Robert Pogson, it is your right to use FOSS or whatever software that you wish. But at the same time whenever you blog in criticism of others choices of software that are not yours, you will be called out for the cheap hypocrite that you are.

  69. DrLoser wrote, “nobody has ever tried that business model, though.”

    Uh,,, RedHat? Ever heard of them? They sell subscriptions for a pretty penny and anyone can get most of the source code.

  70. Dr Loser says:

    Suppose I write some wonderful software and advertise it to the world.

    There’s a first time for everything, I suppose. I’d concentrate on getting that Web-Ready Pascal version of GEBC finished first, though…

    I include a GPLv3 licence with the software, but stipulate that the download costs $4K.

    … aaaaand, you’ve just managed to make FLOSS software sound even less financially appealing than commercial software. My wonderful bit of software, packaged at a very reasonable $99, beats your “free” $4K download by a country mile.

    Funny how nobody has ever tried that business model, though. I look forward to your next suggestion. Perhaps “armed FLOSS gifting,” wherein you hold a hunting rifle to somebody’s head and promise to shoot them if they don’t use your software? That would neatly combine two of your passions.

    I could probably make some money selling a few downloads

    Within a very high probability, no you could not.

    but eventually users would just share the software and that stream would dry up.

    Except that anybody interested in your software would already have bought my $99 shrinkwrap equivalent. As marketing goes, your approach is very close to “You’re never alone with a Strand.”

    Now, I could also make money offering documentation

    No you couldn’t. Nobody reads documentation.

    instruction

    except that good instructors tend not to be the same people who write good software. And you’d face competition from the likes of “Pogsoft For Dummies.” And that competition would be far better resourced than you would.

    and updates.

    $4K for the initial download, and now you expect me to pay for updates? Not gonna happen, Robert. Do I get free beer? Keep the speech to yourself.

    It’s all good.

    Where do you get those excellent magic mushrooms from?

  71. Deaf Spy wrote, “Interesting twist of “free”.”

    Free is not about price but Freedom to run, examine, modify and distribute… How many times to I have to shout that before your hear? Oh, you’re deaf… I understand.

  72. Deaf Spy says:

    I include a GPLv3 licence with the software, but stipulate that the download costs $4K.

    Interesting twist of “free”. Then I believe you can name every software as zero-priced, and that you pay either for the bandwidth, or for the packaging.

  73. Deaf Spy says:

    You forgot about hardware, which sells very much better with open source software.

    Care to prove that, Rammy?

    Hey, what happened to your proof for AAA titles using a thin-client – server model, where graphics are rendered on a server?

  74. ram says:

    Mr. Pogson said: “Now, I could also make money offering documentation, instruction and updates.”

    You forgot about hardware, which sells very much better with open source software.

    And here is a nice little Linux box for you Robert:

    http://images.nvidia.com/content/technologies/deep-learning/pdf/61681-DB2-Launch-Datasheet-Deep-Learning-Letter-WEB.pdf

    Imagine what you could do with one of those!

  75. DrLoser wrote, “Even the licence sometimes costs money. False. What are you, some sort of weirdo back-slider?”

    True. Suppose I write some wonderful software and advertise it to the world. I include a GPLv3 licence with the software, but stipulate that the download costs $4K. I could probably make some money selling a few downloads, but eventually users would just share the software and that stream would dry up. Now, I could also make money offering documentation, instruction and updates. It’s all good.

  76. Dr Loser says:

    Of course the cost of FLOSS is not zero.

    True.

    Even the licence sometimes costs money.

    False. What are you, some sort of weirdo back-slider?

    Anyhow, more interesting is your following admission, which I notice you haven’t retracted:

    I know the non-Free stuff may offer better ease of use but I don’t know many artists who like doing things the easy way.

    What cost/benefit ratio would you put on “better ease of use,” Robert?

    And equally — do you have any acquaintances at all who claim to be artists?

    And how many of those artists would willingly sacrifice their art on the painful altar of FLOSS?

    Just one would do. I am a mild man, of very few demands. One single cite, please.

  77. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “WE’s thesis is preposterous, wrong, and obviously his agenda does not tolerate alternative points of view.”

    This coming from the man who refuses to acknowledge that someone may have their reasons for not using FOSS or Linux as desktop. This coming from the man who dismisses as slaves those who continue to use commercial software in the face of his arguements. As far as agendas are concerned, it is YOU who regularly trumpet yours every time you talk about your ancient experience with long obsolete versions of as if they are still gospel today.

    No matter what you say or intend, the primary message that comes across in your bloging is that you are more concerned about the cost of something rather than getting something done right. And that is that.

  78. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “Robert Pogson cares more about cost than quality”.

    That’s silly. The ONLY reason I even looked at GNU/Linux was that That Other OS didn’t work for me and my students. I could have paid M$’s price out of my own pocket for those few machines but that was silly because I knew their software was crap, shipping with no security and thousands of bugs. I already had legal copies of their software and it crashed multiple times per day, absolutely unacceptable. So, WE’s thesis is preposterous, wrong, and obviously his agenda does not tolerate alternative points of view.

  79. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Then there’s the four freedoms. ”

    I believe the most of important of which you have made very clear over the years is the ability to distribute/duplicate WITHOUT COST!

    “I remember…”

    Your obsolete memories are completely irrelevant to my point.

    I was only able to get what I wanted by paying to license the software and the sample library. There was nothing in the world of FOSS software that offered what even my old libraries offered (The move to VSL was an upgrade in quality FYI).

    “OTOH, the flexibility to do what you want with Free Software is priceless.”

    Oh there is plenty of flexibility with the commercial software that I use. The big difference is that I have to license it appropriately. But since for Robert Pogson, flexibility seems to be nothing more than a synonym for “zero cost”, we once again arrive at the same observation.

    All Robert Pogson cares more about cost than quality.

  80. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “We are told over and over again how the major benefit of FOSS is zero cost”

    Of course the cost of FLOSS is not zero. Even the licence sometimes costs money. That’s rare of course as any user can distribute the code, but some do operate that way bundling services with the code. Even if the code and licence cost $0 there’s still some effort at documentation and installation but it’s very often much less than non-Free software. Then there’s the four freedoms. They are a cost of non-Free software that often costs far more than the licence. I remember being paid ~$50/h in the old days and re-re-rebooting PCs all day long. That re-re-rebooting cost far more than the licence from M$. The value of that software was negative even if the licence were $0. OTOH, the flexibility to do what you want with Free Software is priceless.

  81. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Nonsense. I’ve never held that view. Don’t attribute that to me. ”

    Why not? The cost of things is a subtext of all of your blogging Robert Pogson. We are told over and over again how the major benefit of FOSS is zero cost, You even go so far as to dismiss the quality of ease of use of a “Non-free” (There’s cost again!) solution as irrelevant, supposedly because artists don’t do things the easy way.

    Who are you kidding?

  82. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “So once again, everything comes down to the fact hat Robert Pogson doesn’t understand that there are situations where cost is NOT the prime determination of choice.”

    Nonsense. I’ve never held that view. Don’t attribute that to me. There may be instances where cost is the only deciding factor as when you have IT or not depending on price but it’s almost always involved one way or another. Budgets exist to keep organizations running, not to finance providers of software. The priorities are set by the organization. In schools where I worked software was often the last priority and it could take years to get a project onto the budget. FLOSS had the inside track.

  83. Dr Loser says:

    I know the non-Free stuff may offer better ease of use but I don’t know many artists who like doing things the easy way.

    That’s an intriguing argument, Robert. Intriguing, yet monumentally dense. “Suffering for your art” doesn’t involve repeated stabbing yourself in the thigh with an X-acto knife, you know. Nor does it involve piddling around with inadequate software when they can just chuck $50 at the problem and have done with it.

    Still, at least you have finally accepted the possibility that non-FLOSS stuff offers better ease of use.

    These “artists” you know. Other than that subset on this blog who specialise in “piss,” have you considered canvassing them on their views on the subject?

    I think you might find the results …. informative.

  84. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “It’s not an investment either. Will you ever be able to sell those licences at a profit? Will you even be able to use them as hardware evolves?”
    The licenses are permanent, and upgrades to the sampler are free. Every so often, when the vendor offers a real upgrade at a reasonable proce, I upgrade (I just did so with one of the garritan libraries, where $50.00 US bought me an even better (= more realistic) sounding set of orchestral strings.

    “but with a single source of supply there are no competitive market forces making the price you paid right.” There was competition, but the offering from VSL was superior to them all. The cost to license the samples and their player was as far as I am concerned both reasonableand “right”

    “OTOH FLOSS just keeps giving. You can’t beat the performance/$. ” So once again, everything comes down to the fact hat Robert Pogson doesn’t understand that there are situations where cost is NOT the prime determination of choice. Wrong Robert Pogson, FOSS came up short in terms of sheer quality

    “I know the non-Free stuff may offer better ease of use but I don’t know many artists who like doing things the easy way. That’s why they play instruments or sling paint etc.”

    One more time… The reason that FOSS loses in this case is primary because of the quality of the sound library. That is all that counted. The license fee was right, I paid that fee and I am now working ( and it is work) on writing my latest composition using the instrumental sounds that I wanted to use.

    I don’t expect someone like Robert Pogson who is so caught up in cost, cost, cost to understand the concept that one might actually need to pay for what one needs. But I also know unlike Robert Pogson that any person who is at all serious at their art ia not going to do things the hard way because they are too cheap (as opposed to cash
    shy) to pay a reasonable costs for their instruments or tools.

  85. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “The total investment that I recently made in licenses for the Vienna Symphonic Library was $416.00 US on top of an existing investment of ca. $800 US for the other digital instruments that I have acquired (over the past 10 years). That’s hardly Millionaire territory.”

    It’s not an investment either. Will you ever be able to sell those licences at a profit? Will you even be able to use them as hardware evolves? I suppose you can emulate hardware indefinitely but that’s hardly what most artists can/will do. The licences obviously have some value but with a single source of supply there are no competitive market forces making the price you paid right. OTOH FLOSS just keeps giving. You can’t beat the performance/$. I know the non-Free stuff may offer better ease of use but I don’t know many artists who like doing things the easy way. That’s why they play instruments or sling paint etc.

  86. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “All 14 preset halls are completely worthless feature when talking about a 3d rendered movie to get the sound aligned to events properly…”

    But we are not talking about 3D anything sir. In fact your entire google driven set of factoids represents the ultimate in irrelevancy to my comments – two whit, I challenged Robert Pogson to come up with a FOSS offering that was equal to or better than the commercial offerings from Vienna Symphonic Library, and he couldn’t.

    SO unless you have something to offer in that regard, I suggest that you cut the bullshit.

  87. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Fitting software into the budget may well be a non-issue for a millionaire but for all the rest FLOSS makes sense.”

    The total investment that I recently made in licenses for the Vienna Symphonic Library was $416.00 US on top of an existing investment of ca. $800 US for the other digital instruments that I have acquired (over the past 10 years). That’s hardly Millionaire territory. Furthermore I have with this library does gives me a massive improvement over the libraries that I have been using at what is for me a modest cost.

    But of course, if I was Robert Pogson, who is only concerned with being as cheap as possible, I guess that even my modest cost would be too much to bear.

    It has been my experience that anyone who is truly serious about his/her creative work eventually seeks out and acquires the best tools that he/she can afford. And in all cases that I know if the choice has been some piece of commercial software. ANd in the few cases where FOSS was used, it was running on either windows or OS X.

  88. luvr says:

    He… A few days ago, when I updated my Debian testing system, IceWeasel got replaced by the “real” FireFox. Nice!

    One strange little detail occurred, though: After IceWeasel was removed and FireFox was installed to take its place, a “transitional” IceWeasel package got installed. It turned out that the “x-www-browser” setting (under the alternatives system) continued to refer to the “iceweasel” browser—which was no longer available. I guess that the “x-www-browser” setting couldn’t be modified when IceWeasel was removed, because there was no alternative (i.e., an other browser) available at that moment. The “transitional” IceWeasel package will have created an “iceweasel” link to “firefox” to make the browser setting work again.

    Just for fun, I decided to remove the transitional IceWeasel package—after which (as expected) the default browser no longer worked. I then manually set “x-www-browser” to point to “firefox” instead, removed the “iceweasel” option from the alternatives, and marked the “firefox” option (i.e., the only remaining one) as the “automatic” value. (In fact, these steps were entirely unnecessary, since they don’t change anything visible. I suppose that some later update, between now and the day when “stretch” becomes “stable”, may well perform this little cleanup automatically.)

  89. luvr says:

    kurkosdr wrote, “Deal with it.”

    Fine—Here’s the deal: You shut up, and we deal with it. Agreed?

  90. kurkosdr wrote, “It’s never an OS issue in Windows. Everything just works, even if you run Vista or Windows 7. Not so in Desktop Linux, where even recent LTSes aren’t supported well. Deal with it.”

    Let’s see. I’ve used GNU/Linux on a gazillion different machines of varying ages and have had zero problems. I once installed on a 15 year old machine and the only problem was finding peripherals that actually worked well enough from which to boot. I think the floppy was the way it went. It was so old PXE was not an option. In ancient times I would see occasional NICs that had no driver but there were always ways around that like plugging in a different NIC. I can’t recall any problem with the software. None.

  91. oiaohm says:

    Again Nice bit of gibberish sir. And perhaps when I have the time I will try to figure out exactly what bit of googling on your part it is actually based on. As far as hall resonance, The Garritan Ambience module in Finale 2014.5 gives me a choice of 14 different preset hall simulations and the ability to tweak any one of the should I desire to. So far I have been quite content with the Concert Hall that Finale performs my compositions in.

    All 14 preset halls are completely worthless feature when talking about a 3d rendered movie to get the sound aligned to events properly. Remember as the action moves in on screen the hall shape can in fact be changing. So manually tweaking Hall in something like Finale is truthfully amateur hour attempt.

    http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Blender-2-60-adds-3D-audio-1364087.html

    This is back in 2011 when we started seeing 3d modeling tools do audio feed placements.

    Wizard Emeritus 3d maths to create hall audio effects on fly exist for reasons. Sorry its just the level above what you do.

    http://www.mdpi.com/2075-5309/4/2/113/buildings-04-00113-pdf-vor.pdf
    By 2014 doing perfect seen modeling from audio point of view was perfectly possible.

    Garritan Ambience module does not take 3d model of hall and calculate. Worse you cannot place a item moving with events as record point.

    Basically 3d movie production Garritan Ambience module before 2011 had some merit in 3d movie production. But since 2011 its importance has dropped away due to is lack of means to recalculate.

    Most of the proper 3d model taking Ambience tools are open source. This is why if you are not using at least some open source software you are using crap Wizard Emeritus. Basically Garritan Ambience module is out dated method of doing it.

  92. ram says:

    Avid Technology Corporation is a financial basket case:

    http://ir.avid.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=896841-16-147&CIK=896841

    Just a smidgen of a rise in interest rates and its “All Over Red Rover”.

    With respect to the movie industry, Linux totally dominates. Some “minor” examples you may have heard of:

    BUF
    C.O.R.E.
    Digital Domain (Titanic)
    Dreamworks
    Industrial Light and Magic
    Intelligent Creatures
    La ménagerie
    Moving Picture Company (Harry Potter, Troy, Kingdom of Heaven, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory)
    Pixar (Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc, The Incredibles, Toy Story)
    Rhythm and Hues (Incredible Hulk, Wolfman, Alvin and Chipmunks, Cats & Dogs, Grinch, Sixth Day, Stuart Little, Planet of the Apes)
    Rising Sun Pictures (Last Samurai, Harry Potter 4, Superman Returns, Charlotte’s Web)
    Sony Pictures Imageworks (Stuart Little II)
    Warner Bros. Motion Picture Imaging (a 4k digital intermediate facility)
    WetaDigital (Avatar, The Lord of the Rings, “I, Robot”)

    Linux also dominates the FX studios that subcontract to the above. Online render farms such as Rebus, Rendersolve, and Rayvision are all Linux based.

    Most commercial music is made for video. It helps to work with tools that integrate with your client’s tools and work flow. Other big distribution channels for music are the Internet (YouTube, streaming radio, etc.) and background music services. Again Linux dominates.

    The level of professional production tools, both audio and video, available for Linux absolutely “trumps” any other platform. Most of the tools are open source (albeit not all that easy to use and often poorly documented) and some are proprietary (and usually highly specialized and very well supported).

    There really isn’t any argument that Linux totally dominates the commercial media industry. We chose the best tool for the job, and since we create advertising and fashion we are practically immune to it.

  93. kurkosdr says:

    If you want to install the latest of any software you may find your old platform wanting whether it’s RAM or CPU or libraries or display

    It’s never an OS issue in Windows. Everything just works, even if you run Vista or Windows 7. Not so in Desktop Linux, where even recent LTSes aren’t supported well. Deal with it.

  94. kurkosdr goes on and on about keeping software running on GNU/Linux, with, “Yes, THAT bad.”

    Shut up. You are getting boring. If you want to install the latest of any software you may find your old platform wanting whether it’s RAM or CPU or libraries or display. If you want to maintain an old version on an LTS GNU/Linux there’s rarely a problem because the distro takes care of niggling problems like security updates. My bank, for instance, is still running XP despite it being dead… GNU/Linux on the other hand is very much alive. I’m running a very recent release of VLC, LibreOffice, and FireFox with no such problems. Use FLOSS. It works.

  95. kurkosdr says:

    The really big, and the vast majority of the medium sized, commercial creative houses use Linux clusters for music, soundtrack, and video creation.

    Desktop Linux is perfect if you have a bunch of in-house nerds maintaining it and writing custom software for it.

    Meanwhile the company that powers the small medium business? Microsoft. Their OS has a wealth of off-the-shelf software, and the users can stay with the old version of the OS for more than a decade, which means their investments in said off-the-shelf software won’t be jeopardized by compulsory upgrades to new major versions (and even if you accidentally upgrade to win10, you can roll back). In Ubuntu? You only get 5 years of LTS, after that it’s a mandatory bump to a new major buddy!

    And most new applications won’t run on your old LTS version when the new LTS comes out, even if the 5-years time hasn’t passed. In fact, some applications will abandon you supposedly Long-Term-Supported version <strong?even before a new LTS comes out. I like to point to this link as an example of how bad things are for the Desktop Linux user who hates upgrading to new majors because he doesn’t want breakages:

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/install-latest-vlc-release-ubuntu-12-04

    Yes, THAT bad.

    Meanwhile, VLC runs even in Vista just fine. Vista also receives security patches. That’s Long-Term-Support. That’s not being forced to upgrade to new majors. That’s respect for your investment in proprietary software. That’s why Windows rules tthe SMB and home markets.

  96. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wizard Emeritus for doing 7.1 and higher audio aligned to 3d action to parties doing that –Avid pro tools are just rank amateurs– class of tools to that camp.”

    As expected sir you totally trash the commercial product without a cite based on its lack of capability in one esoteric area that you declare is necessary. That is an even bigger load of BS than Mr. r’s comments.

    “I would say the 3d audio composing aligned to 3d rendering is a level above normal composing and massively more complex and its not something you attempt on a normal desktop. ”

    And I would say that you have no idea (as usual) what you are talking about.
    Spare us the gibberish.

    “Simple question Wizard Emeritus when was the last time you did audio resonance to a virtual 3d space so that the sound track sounds more real. Yes echo off the wall shapes that are not showing on screen at moment in fact makes what you watching feel more real.”

    Again Nice bit of gibberish sir. And perhaps when I have the time I will try to figure out exactly what bit of googling on your part it is actually based on. As far as hall resonance, The Garritan Ambience module in Finale 2014.5 gives me a choice of 14 different preset hall simulations and the ability to tweak any one of the should I desire to. So far I have been quite content with the Concert Hall that Finale performs my compositions in.

  97. oiaohm says:

    Wizard Emeritus for doing 7.1 and higher audio aligned to 3d action to parties doing that –Avid pro tools are just rank amateurs– class of tools to that camp.

    So his statement is not 100 percent bull. Maybe he only hangs with those who sub contract for Weta Digital and Pixar and other 3d production houses.

    Simple question Wizard Emeritus when was the last time you did audio resonance to a virtual 3d space so that the sound track sounds more real. Yes echo off the wall shapes that are not showing on screen at moment in fact makes what you watching feel more real.

    I would say the 3d audio composing aligned to 3d rendering is a level above normal composing and massively more complex and its not something you attempt on a normal desktop. Audio 3d flow dynamics paths is not fun and really do eat up lots of cpu time and its really a cluster problem. A lot think when using Avid they are using the highest pro-tools when in fact that is at least 1 level down. Now of course question is are you doing any work that in fact needs to be able to take a 3d model and render sound as it happening inside it. If yes you need a Linux cluster. If no then you may look at some like avid.

  98. Wizard Emeritus wrote, sarcastically, “I guess all those musicians who are users of Avid pro tools are just rank amateurs”.

    The existence of Avid pro tools and FLOSS show that musicians have choice. In the performing and creative world there are a hundred struggling individuals for every one that has made it. Many of those are not amateurs at all and have all the skills and determination of the established pros. Fitting software into the budget may well be a non-issue for a millionaire but for all the rest FLOSS makes sense.

    An example: Here’s a guy who uses Hydrogen beat software while also using a non-Free digital audio workstation. Is he using the best tools for the job or is he just a rank amateur? He has choice. Hydrogen is FLOSS (GPLv2). His non-Free DAW software has a licensing fee of $60 for those earning less than $20K or less per annum and $225 for those earning $20K+. Even the purveyors of non-Free software get the concept.

    PS: Katy Perry uses WordPress… Last I heard she’s not a rank amateur. Also, her site runs on GNU/Linux.

  99. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “They don’t count! ”

    I guess all those musicians who are users of Avid pro tools are just rank amateurs (which only runs on windows and OS X are all Rank Amateurs.

    “Everybody, and I mean everybody, I know in commercial media uses Linux, including in music.”

    And, of course, you are an unimpeachable source of information… Spare us your bullshit.

  100. ram says:

    “…the other 99.1% of the market…”

    They don’t count! They don’t make their living producing music. They don’t have any money and hardly can afford any gear. Everybody, and I mean everybody, I know in commercial media uses Linux, including in music. There are a few old Macs out there, but there are also people who only record on reel-to-reel analog tape. They are as rare as people making films using photographic film these days.

  101. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “The really big, and the vast majority of the medium sized, commercial creative houses use Linux clusters for music, soundtrack, and video creation. ”

    You have babbled this factoid before. It wasn’t relevant to what I was discussing then, and its not relevant now. In the area of music at least, and the other 99.1% of the market who purchase from the likes of sweetwater.com and you will find a different situation.

  102. ram says:

    The really big, and the vast majority of the medium sized, commercial creative houses use Linux clusters for music, soundtrack, and video creation. Just check the “help wanted” sections of the Weta Digital and Pixar websites. It’s all Linux.

  103. kurkosdr says:

    I know of very few amateur photographers who are going to want to shoehorn their creative process solely with in the resource of even the best smartphone.

    I can imagine an amateur photographer using his phone as a backup device (as a camera always in pocket) as long as the device has a PureView camera with it’s insane supersampling thing… Oh look, Windows again.

    Meanwhile, Android the-glue-eating-mobile-OS can’t figure out how to delete thumbnails of deleted photos…

    Hint to Pog: There is this magical app called ES File Manager, which has a “SD analyzer” tool in the menu. It shows how much space each folder and each subfolder takes up, sorted by size, hidden stuff included. The app works even on creaky 2.x devices. Download it and run it. If you have a DCIM/.thumbnails folder or a thumbnails folder taking up hundreds of megabytes of space, you need to cleanup. Sometimes on some devices the folder increases even without taking new pictures, just by viewing them in Gallery. So a good old delete of thumbnails and a reboot is always a good idea… android the glue eating OS!

  104. Dr Loser says:

    There isn’t any but Wizard’s imagination or lack of it.

    Not quite, Robert. There is also an old man in suburban Manitoba who is proud to admit that he has never once even touched Windows since, at best, Windows XP (fourteen years old and one and a half years past its expiry date).

    An old man in suburban Manitoba who, disregarding his utter ignorance of the present alternative, will still claim that Linux is in every way technically superior to Windows on the desktop.

    Not a very reputable way for a man trained in the scientific method to behave, old man.

    You do realise that, for a scientific claim to be credible, it has to be falsifiable?

  105. Dr Loser says:

    When I was teaching I met a lot of talented creative types who spent years of their lives hovering over a desktop PC creating files for presentations/lessons/meetings etc.

    In Easterville?

    Well, I suppose there’s not much else to do there, once the sun goes down.

    And it’s a well-known universal fact that “creative types” will, given the chance, eschew their lattes and their Macs for the chance to do a bit of curriculum presentation.

    Happens all the time, as we all know.

  106. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Let’s see… That’s rather subjective, that what you do is what everyone should do or they’re not “creative”. ”

    Who said that Robert Pogson? Remember I am not the one who is showing the lack of imagination here by his instance that “most people” do not need to have a desktop. It is doubtful that you have even the slightest notion of what “most people” do beyond your own circle of acquaintances.

    “Folks do tons of creative stuff with Android/Linux smartphones whether you see it or not.”

    I suggest that you might want to read the referenced article carefully before you assume that you know what I know.

    http://www.phonearena.com/news/Mobile-musicians–here-are-5-of-the-most-powerful-music-composition-apps-for-Android_id70987

    The takeaways of the article are this: Whatever is being done with mobile devices in the area of music production at this point best done on apples iOS based devices. Android devices are lagging far behind even apple. And neither iOS or Android based devices can even come close to the full power of an x86 system, be it desktop or portable.

    “Lots of folks do 4K video on them, just displaying. ”

    Nope. Those folks who have decided to purchase/lease a high power mobile device and who have high bandwidth networking available can display 4K video content. None of them are going to be creating it. But nice try.

    ” Then there’s photography and recording stuff. That can be very creative. ”

    Yes it can. But there is a difference between an obviously experienced photographer applying his technique to working creatively with a limited device and his using of that limited device as his sole creative outlet. I know of very few amateur photographers who are going to want to shoehorn their creative process solely with in the resource of even the best smartphone.

  107. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Use Debian GNU/Linux and take charge of your desktop having it do things you need done. ”

    Why bother? I have a desktop and software that do EXACTLY what I need to be done. There is no need for me to exercise my sysadmin/developer/integrator skills because the system that I have needs No major hacking hacking around at all out of the box. It is powerful enough to do what I need it to without tweaking.

    Remember Robert Pogson, I am not hung up on spending as little as I can as you are.

    “A 15 year old PC is certainly a stretch. I’ve done it and it can work but not very well. 10 years is a more practical limit.”

    Well its nice to see that you have some sense of reality after all. In fact 9-10 years is a quite doable life for a desktop, If you invested money in the beginning on the hardware. But the same age hardware if it was cheap (and limited) to begin with doesn’t do anywhere near as well with the latest software for either a windows or a linux desktop.

  108. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “Lets see you try to load unmodified the latest version of Ubuntu with all of the current default applications that people like on a ca . 2001 desk.”

    That’s Ubuntu busy doing all kinds of unnecessary things like checking the print queue every second to see if a notification must be given and a hundred other useless tasks. Use Debian GNU/Linux and take charge of your desktop having it do things you need done. A 15 year old PC is certainly a stretch. I’ve done it and it can work but not very well. 10 years is a more practical limit.

    He also wrote, “Anyone who actually uses a computer for any kind of sophisticated creative work as I do can tell you that as it stands now Android based devices do not even come close to being able to create finished work.”

    Let’s see… That’s rather subjective, that what you do is what everyone should do or they’re not “creative”. Folks do tons of creative stuff with Android/Linux smartphones whether you see it or not. Lots of folks do 4K video on them, just displaying. Then there’s photography and recording stuff. That can be very creative. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, not the guy who makes computers. Smartphones may not be as great as a good DSLR or SLR but they are far superior to any legacy PC in portability and that makes it a better tool for such tasks being on the scene of the inspiration. Inspiration often does not travel well. I like to hunt, and a detailed plan for a hunt can be visualized on a smartphone in real time (complete with weather reports, ephemera, photos, video, maps) in the place where a legacy PC is useless. If you don’t think hunting is creative that’s a comment on you, not hunting. Sometimes you can plan a hunt in advance but almost always the plan must evolve and legacy PCs and their file-systems don’t evolve out there.

    When I was teaching I met a lot of talented creative types who spent years of their lives hovering over a desktop PC creating files for presentations/lessons/meetings etc. All that can be done with a smartphone very well these days. Years ago, folks were running GNU/Linux desktops on smartphones with ease. It’s far better now with faster CPUs and more RAM, certainly good enough for the kinds of things people do with PCs.

  109. kurkosdr says:

    despite running win7, not the latest Windows major version, automatically. = despite running win7, not the latest Windows major version, automatically by default.

  110. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “What 16+ year old tech is he mentioning? TOOS? Certainly not GNU/Linux which has evolved rapidly year after year.”

    Lets see you try to load unmodified the latest version of Ubuntu with all of the current default applications that people like on a ca . 2001 desk. If it is like my experience, the resulting system is so dog slow as to be unusable.

    “There isn’t any but Wizard’s imagination or lack of it.”

    Lack of imagination Robert Pogson. Thinking that all one needs to do with a desktop is surf the web, do some spreadsheets and correspond via email represents the ultimate in lack of Imagination. It is however understandable. Proposing the less than stellar experience that one gets from an android device as ones sole computer platform requires that you turn a blind eye to much of what people use computers for that does not match your notion of what computing is.

    Anyone who actually uses a computer for any kind of sophisticated creative work as I do can tell you that as it stands now Android based devices do not even come close to being able to create finished work. Anyone who pays attention to the demands of the market that OEM’s are selling Android based devices into could tell you that it is doubtful that they ever will be able to do it all.

    Part of the problem is of course that people like myself have the technology now to exercise our imaginations. As a composer I am able to use my computer to realize the large scale musical compositions for classical orchestral instruments that I hear in my head, without having to resort to attempting to find an ensemble that would perform my music. I have imagined being able to do that and more for nearly 30 years and now I can do it!. The technology to do this comes at a price – My Dell xps8900 desktop And USB3 based outboard audio interface cost me over $2500.00. The price was well worth it, because in the end, my ability to realize what is in my imagination is not limited.

  111. kurkosdr says:

    not done evil = not some evil

  112. kurkosdr says:

    “Android” has no say in the matter. It’s just software. It’s only the hardware designer that can go out of his way to prevent modification of the software. Unfortunately, some suppliers also fail to update software so they can sell more units, perhaps, or maybe they’re just lazy. The best way to fight that is to buy smartphones where the user can control the software on the device…

    But the company who makes Android have a say in the matter, by choosing or not to backport security patches to old major versions and hence not requiring an upgrade to a new major.

    Here is the recap:
    -The Galaxy Nexus has an open bootloader, no OEM skins, the updates are controlled by Google (the OS vendor, not done evil OEM) but doesn’t get security patches when you manually check for updates. No stagefright patch for Galaxy Nexus, you need to flash a buggy custom ROM for that and wipe the internal storage. Easy!
    -The Surface RT gets security patches despite not running the latest version of Windows (10), automatically by default.
    -My old Acer Aspire One gets security patches despite running win7, not the latest Windows major version, automatically.

    And THAT’S the major problem with Android. Pog, this ain’t that complicated.

  113. kurkosdr wrote, “The Motorola RAZR i has a an x86 CPU and doesn’t get security patches. Because Android.”

    “Android” has no say in the matter. It’s just software. It’s only the hardware designer that can go out of his way to prevent modification of the software. Unfortunately, some suppliers also fail to update software so they can sell more units, perhaps, or maybe they’re just lazy. The best way to fight that is to buy smartphones where the user can control the software on the device, a good reason to always use FLOSS.

  114. kurkosdr says:

    Since Windows 7, users don’t need to upgrade their hardware to use the latest OS of Microsoft. Contrary to all Linuxes and Androids, where hardware requirements go up and every new release.

    For the billionth time, the main suckage of Android is not the ever-growing hardware requirements (though it is an issue), Android’s main problem is that perfectly capable hardware like the Galaxy Nexus (no OEM skins) doesn’t receive security patches even if you check for updates manually. In fact, buggy custom ROMs that wipe the phone’s storage when installed are the only to install security patches on a Galaxy Nexus. Or on a Galaxy S3. Or on an Optimus 4X.

    And none of the above changes the fact that a nearly decade old x86 desktop is far easier to keep patched and secure than a 5 year old (even top of the line) version of an Android based smart phone technology that Robert Pogson keeps boosting as our next desktop of choice.
    For the 100th time, x86 or ARM is irrelevant when it comes to OSes receiving security patches. The Motorola RAZR i has a an x86 CPU and doesn’t get security patches. Because Android. The Surface RT has an ARM CPU but does get security patches. Because Windows.

  115. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “a fantasy world in which a 16+ year old desktop technology is still “perfectly usable” for the kind of applications that run on desk top computers.

    it is definitely not true for the rest of those who still need to use the kind of application that require desktop computers.”

    Let’s test that hypothesis:

    • What 16+ year old tech is he mentioning? TOOS? Certainly not GNU/Linux which has evolved rapidly year after year.
    • A good use for a desktop PC is the creation of documents such as letters, diagrams, signs, spreadsheets, graphs,… all kinds of useful stuff for communicating, planning and recording stuff. Well, GNU/Linux does that beautifully. I use that every day as do many millions of others.
    • Browsers, the number one application on most desktop PCs, definitely have no problem running on GNU/Linux or ARM.
    • Even M$ is porting stuff to GNU/Linux, so where’s the problem? There isn’t any but Wizard’s imagination or lack of it.
  116. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “So, as so often happens, Deaf Spy is full of it.”

    Nope. Robert Pogson lives in a fantasy world in which a 16+ year old desktop technology is still “perfectly usable” for the kind of applications that run on desk top computers. Perhaps that is true for Robert Pogsons needs, but it is definitely not true for the rest of those who still need to use the kind of application that require desktop computers.

    And none of the above changes the fact that a nearly decade old x86 desktop is far easier to keep patched and secure than a 5 year old (even top of the line) version of an Android based smart phone technology that Robert Pogson keeps boosting as our next desktop of choice.

  117. Deaf Spy wrote, “Since Windows 7, users don’t need to upgrade their hardware to use the latest OS of Microsoft. Contrary to all Linuxes and Androids, where hardware requirements go up and every new release.”

    You mean since all PCs ship with 1gB or more RAM? I have GNU/Linux running in 128MB on my thin clients… M$ used to require RAM to double between releases. GNU/Linux does that every decade or so… GNU/Linux is just catching up to the wastage of RAM M$ did 15 years ago.

    “7”:“1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit) “

    Debian GNU/Linux: Recommends 1gB for a desktop and 512MB for no desktop, but, “The actual minimum memory requirements are a lot less than the numbers listed in this table. Depending on the architecture, it is possible to install Debian with as little as 20MB (for s390) to 60MB (for amd64).”

    So, as so often happens, Deaf Spy is full of it.

  118. Deaf Spy says:

    Windows 7, 8.x and 10 run perfectly on a PC from 2010 and hence don’t force people to buy new systems, leading to a decline in new system sales. How despicable of Microsoft!

    Kurks brings forward a very interesting point, which somehow got ignored. Worth repeating.

    Since Windows 7, users don’t need to upgrade their hardware to use the latest OS of Microsoft. Contrary to all Linuxes and Androids, where hardware requirements go up and every new release.

  119. Deaf Spy says:

    Intel must be dumping product to do that.

    Definitely not. A renown Physics specialist like you must surely understand the silicon die bin-out process and its effect on the market.

    Either way it cuts into Wintel’s margins.

    And they are still making money, because of the volume. Micro-economics, level I.

    Conclusion is, ARM is simply not there yet to compete on this league.

  120. kurkosdr wrote, “In all Android phones, binaries and app settings are stored in the internal flash storage, which is not accessible without a good old teardown and removal of the flash chip.”

    The SD card is flash memory too. My mistake. Still, it’s doable by rooting the phone. It’s probably not worthwhile because of the tiny RAM on my phone but it’s ancient.

  121. antifanboy wrote, “legacy PCs will bottom out this year, only to go back to growth next year, while phone sales are slowing to a crawl. “

    That’s not the case. Smartphones are still growing near 10% per annum while the best legacy PCs can hope for is flat or nearly so. Flat is not growing, just surviving.

  122. ram says:

    Intel’s PC’s are mostly being purchased to be used in Linux clusters or as workstations connected to a Linux cluster. The latest Linux Mint Mate works extremely well with clusters. You can either remote desktop in or start an ssh -X window to the server you want to talk directly to and then type “mate-session” at the command line. You can put at least four of these on each screen and the various sessions on the various servers are aware of each other and inter-operate. Pretty easy to have a single screen and keyboard/mouse working with 128 Intel full power cores behind it. Now that is a smooth workspace! Throw a few thousand NVidia CUDA cores in the workstations and you are really cooking!

    Now the biggest problem the companies doing this face is finding suitable ergonomic chairs for the human operators.

  123. antifanboy says:

    “Smartphone Sales in China and North America Will Be Flat in 2016

    PC Shipments to Bottom Out in 2016, Return to Growth Expected in 2017”

    The global PC shipment market is expected to total 284 million units in 2016, a decline of 1.5 per cent year on year. Traditional PCs are on pace to decline 6.7 per cent in 2016. “In 2016, the PC market will reach its last year of decline before returning to growth in 2017,” said Mr Atwal. “The biggest challenge, and potential benefit for the PC market, is the integration of Windows 10 with Intel’s Skylake architecture. It has the potential for new form factors with more attractive features.”

    In other words, legacy PCs will bottom out this year, only to go back to growth next year, while phone sales are slowing to a crawl. This is information you deliberately withheld on your page, yet you put a link to it at the right, hoping that: 1) people would be too stupid to click on it, and 2) they won’t take the time to read it. All of this in a desperate attempt to make Linux and ARM look good. This might work on the mindless Richard Stallman-Kool-Aid-drinking crowd but not on most of the (sane) world.

  124. kurkosdr says:

    system apps = system apps or system core

  125. kurkosdr says:

    (and btw don’t mention app2sd, the apps are stored encrypted and system apps like libstagefright cannot be moved into sd anyways)

  126. kurkosdr says:

    How about moving the memory card to Beast, building whatever ARMed software system I want on that card and moving it back to the smartphone?

    You have no clue about how Android works, right? The memory card only has user files and app caches (thumbnails, cached videos etc). In all Android phones, binaries and app settings are stored in the internal flash storage, which is not accessible without a good old teardown and removal of the flash chip.

    https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+S+Teardown/7122

    You can package code as an .apk and install it as an app, updating apps this way, but the libstagefright code is not an app and cannot be “updated” that way. Even if you have root.

    The only way to patch your Galaxy S is to flash an unofficial Lollipop ROM on it, with GPS and Bluetooth not working and software rendered everything. Meh…

    Meanwhile, my old Acer Aspire One with the very first Atom generation runs Windows 7 and gets all the latest security patches, automatically, without me lifting a finger. Ahh.. Windows… Patching itself on old devices without you even lifting a finger. That’s what a good OS does.

  127. dougman, being picky, wrote, “Aircraft are structurally very sound and over-built to accommodate positive and negative G-forces.
     
    In the past 20+ years, I fail to recall an instance of a aircraft breaking up during in a “nose-dive”.”

    ISTR a plane over NYC crashed after breaking its tail. That was probably due to trying to compensate for turbulence but it can happen. My father saw a German fighter lose a wing trying to stay with a British spitfire. The spitfire dived and pulled up. The German lost a wing. End of story.

    Actually, I was also including diving into terrain as a failure mechanism. It’s debatable whether or not breakup occurs in mid-air as long as it happens. All heavy planes can be destroyed by overspeed conditions. They are not designed to fly supersonic. The typical climb rate seen at takeoffs is about the steepest they can handle both on climb and emergency decent for decompression. At other times, pitch is limited to a few degrees for the comfort of passengers and safety of the plane. Extreme loads like takeoffs and dives do limit the lifetime of most planes without huge overhauls.

    A few large jets have briefly flown supersonic in dives but just by a hair. Control surfaces are likely to lose control or be ripped off at higher speeds. Control surfaces need air moving over them in a streamlined manner to be effective. At supersonic speeds a plane is surrounded with a shockwave that may or may not touch the control surfaces. If it touches them, they may be damaged. If it doesn’t, there’s way less control. That’s why there were a lot of crashes on the pioneering flights. The pilots would lose control or suddenly the effect desired was obtained by the opposite deflection of control surfaces. It took a lot of training and engineering to make that work. Passenger planes usually don’t cut it nor do their crews.

  128. DrLoser wrote, “if your margin for error on running your greenhouse runs at a hundred bucks or so … I’d give up on running the greenhouse. One bad frost will wipe out all the savings.”

    Two things:

    • I don’t lose stuff to frost because I take the correct actions: bringing stuff into a warmer place or providing local heating as needed. Occasionally there is a frost that’s not predicted. I usually get most of them because I know no cloud cover, light winds and low dew-point is dangerous. I also go outside and look at the sky. That matters, because the forecast may cover a large area and weather is not homogeneous.
    • The ~$100 issue is per client. I have lots of clients so the price per each matters. I don’t buy junk that won’t work and I can add backups and other redundancy to cover bad events. e.g. I can keep buckets of hot water or piles of hot rock, a mechanical thermostat, a constant heat source and a separate system for raising an alarm. I know what I’m doing. So far, the greenhouse has just been a place for dealing with stuff in pots/flats between frosts. I don’t usually put much out before the last frost because TLW tolerates piles of plants in the dining room… mostly. Sometimes when she’s having a party she commands it all be taken away. I can deal with it. The dining area has two walls of windows making solar heating and photosynthesis easy. I have ~200 seeds soaking in the refrigerator now and I will put a similar number of seeds in flats in April, so I’m good. No need to worry. The automation will most likely be a labour-saving and backup device, not an essential service for the operation.
  129. Dr Loser says:

    I may actually add clients if I end up controlling a greenhouse and some alternative power-sources. I can afford to do that if they’re not devices on the Wintel treadmill.

    Quite frankly, Robert, if your margin for error on running your greenhouse runs at a hundred bucks or so … I’d give up on running the greenhouse. One bad frost will wipe out all the savings.

    And oddly enough this is why everybody from SMEs to major corporations is prepared to pay that extra $100 or so.

  130. dougman says:

    Re: ..nose-dives are often fatal affairs.

    Fantasy….Aircraft are structurally very sound and over-built to accommodate positive and negative G-forces.

    In the past 20+ years, I fail to recall an instance of a aircraft breaking up during in a “nose-dive”.

  131. kurkosdr wrote, “How exactly?”

    Exactly?

    How about moving the memory card to Beast, building whatever ARMed software system I want on that card and moving it back to the smartphone?

  132. kurkosdr says:

    “If I felt the need, I could apply the latest patches to my old Android/Linux Galaxy S. It’s FLOSS after all. ”

    Yeah right, of course you can… How exactly?

    And how did those videos below got interleaved with my post?

  133. kukosdr wrote, “Meanwhile on Android-land, do you have a Galaxy Nexus, Optimus 4X or Galaxy S3 with perfectly capable hardware? Better sent it to the recyclers and buy an entire New small cheap computer if you want the latest security patches.”

    If I felt the need, I could apply the latest patches to my old Android/Linux Galaxy S. It’s FLOSS after all. I don’t bother, however, because I have other layers of security.

  134. kurkosdr says:

    Windows 7, 8.x and 10 run perfectly on a PC from 2010 and hence don’t force people to buy new systems, leading to a decline in new system sales. How despicable of Microsoft!

    Meanwhile on Android-land, do you have a Galaxy Nexus, Optimus 4X or Galaxy S3 with perfectly capable hardware? Better sent it to the recyclers and buy an entire New small cheap computer if you want the latest security patches. But rest assured your purchase will be counted as growth in smartphone sales so FOSSies can brag about it in their blogs.

  135. Deaf Spy wrote, “Small cheap PCs are too often equipped with Atoms these days, and run Windows.”

    Intel must be dumping product to do that. M$ is giving away licences for small cheap computers because otherwise they would lose in a big way. Either way it cuts into Wintel’s margins. I like that. You can buy GNU/Linux on ARM but they are still too few. There is a big gap between the $30-75 tiny box and highly usable desktop boxes. RAM is usually scarce as is CPU-cache and SATA storage. It’s happening but too slowly. I think the AMD server board is best for me at the moment even if it’s an older chip just because it has a decent cache and SATA and RAM sockets.

  136. Deaf Spy says:

    ARM’s clientele are selling a multiple of small cheap CPUs and gadgets even taking some of the legacy PC space at the low end and moving into servers where smaller cheaper CPUs matter.

    Except that this is not exactly correct. Small cheap PCs are too often equipped with Atoms these days, and run Windows. Chinese factories produce these in numbers. Weird enough, no big OEM is interested in this market yet.

    It is all good.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *