More Progress To GNU/Linux On ARM In 2016

“The Aquaris M10 is equipped with a 64-bit, quad-core, Cortex-A53 MediaTek MT8163A system-on-chip clocked to 1.5GHz, along with a high-powered ARM Mali-T720 MP2 GPU. The tablet ships with 2GB of RAM, 16GB flash, and a microSD slot.”
 
See Ubuntu “convergence” brings PC-like features to mobiles
Now we’re talking… People will soon be shipping a lot more GNU/Linux on ARMed systems. This latest announcement is decent, but still lacks sufficient RAM for a good multitasking experience. That will happen.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

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85 Responses to More Progress To GNU/Linux On ARM In 2016

  1. Deaf Spy says:

    StarOffice made them money and saved them money. It allowed them to stay in business longer.

    You have absolutely no proof for that. Sun’s primary source of income has always been their hardware. Their software never, ever made money worth speaking of. Sun were even not serious about their port of Solaris to x86, nor even made good tools and software stack around Java.

    The reason they went out of business was that their core business failed to compete against Wintel.

    Not so. Oracle seems to be doing OK with that same hardware (http://www.trefis.com/stock/orcl/articles/244002/oracle-fy14-earnings-cloud-growth-remains-top-priority-as-on-premise-sales-stay-flat/2014-06-20).

    M$ arranged that.

    Now, this is a fantasy most pure.

    Robert, I would expect such “facts” from Fifi or Dog-brain. From you, someone with an academic background, I expect something serious.

  2. Deaf Spy wrote, “they couldn’t make a dime out of it. Soon after they went out of business.”

    OpenOffice.org was not the cause of them going out of business. StarOffice made them money and saved them money. It allowed them to stay in business longer. The reason they went out of business was that their core business failed to compete against Wintel. That’s not a surprise. M$ arranged that. M$ ruined lots of competing technologies through illegal means over decades. Fortunately they could not stop FLOSS nor ARM and that’s turning out better.

  3. Deaf Spy says:

    Their outlay for office suites and PCs became zero and the cost of producing StarOffice was minimal. They even sold some copies.

    Further, SUN had no ongoing internal costs for office suites thereafter as sales covered development costs

    Robert, unless you have the financial reports of SUN to prove your claim, this is only wishful thinking.

    OpenOffice never made it to anything, because the army of FLOSS developers didn’t bother to show on the battlefield.

    They made great PR by opening the code.

    And they couldn’t make a dime out of it. Soon after they went out of business.

  4. oiaohm says:

    The reality with SUN and OpenOffice is lots of bad things but one of those was not cost to SUN.

    R&D that SUN Microsystems put into developing OpenOffice and StarOffice was less than paying for MS Office the complete time.

    Burger King also makes chairs That bit is a bad example kurkosdr . Burger King in fact does design their chairs then put construction of chairs out to tender. Since Burger King owns the design of chairs they can change suppliers at a moment notice without causing company look to change so avoiding supply vendor locking. Lot of chain retail have on staff designers that design large volumes of what you see in stores then out sourcing the production.

    Since Burger King does not make chairs. The parties they tender out to at times will go hey if you alter X in your design of your chairs you can improve out production speed and so on. So you would call Burger King Chairs cooperative development.

    Lets look at what Sun did. By making Star Office closed source they were very much a chair maker. Now Sun suffers from the same problem that Burger King suffered from if they made physical chairs instead of just designing them. No one is going to share stuff the the result is you don’t have to go out to tender right.

    SUN repeatability attempted to walk the line between being a closed source software supplier and being a open source software supplier. Yes pure open source software supplier is really being a lot like burger king chairs. Burger king does not make any thing directly from the chairs they design. Yet their company image depends on them. The sales of food what is something humans need commonly falls into the same camp as selling support in the software side.

    Kitchen tiles that burger king uses happens to been based on existing standard. Yes the two ways to keep costs down.

    1) have access to the design so vendors have to compete with each other for your business. In software this is have access to the source code with the right to modify.
    2) have what you are doing covered by a standard.
    3) Don’t be doing anything that the vendors you are wanting to work with think you are attempting to eat their lunch in unfair ways.

    Its all simple enough. Sun broke 3 in a big way.

    Key things forgotten is the rules of economies of scale. Economies of scale only lead to proper cost reduction if those with massive scale production are competing with each other. Other wise what happens is maker with the economies of scale take the same price it would have cost without the same scale and pockets the difference. Burger King in fact correctly exploits economies of scale by designing things to have multipliable vendors with mass production compete with each other.

    Yes its strange that for a chair a place like Burger King will control everything about it to have multi vendor supply then you look at their software they don’t. It is really not natural.

  5. kurkosdr wrote, “It’s exactly this kind of FOSSeconomics that sunk Sun Microsystems.”

    DO THE MATHS! SUN did not have to buy a Wintel PC for each of 20K employees. SUN did not have to pay M$ $300 or so for each of 20K PCs, nor maintain them. That was ~$26million cost replaced by the purchase of StarOffice which went for $73.5million. In addition, SUN sold many copies for $20-$70 each. They sold a million copies in Germany alone through a single OEM. Further, SUN had no ongoing internal costs for office suites thereafter as sales covered development costs. e.g. Beaumont Hospital switched to FLOSS and used StarOffice rather than OpenOffice.org because SUN supported the product. I worked in several schools that used StarOffice before I arrived. It was widely used.

  6. dougman says:

    Re: everyone knows libreoffice exists

    According to some that post on this blog, no one knows about LibreOffice.

  7. kurkosdr says:

    They broke even on Day One.

    So, they “broke even” by doing R&D instead of ordering stuff from a vendor who had already done R&D and shared it among customers using economies of scale. I guess Burger King also makes chairs and kitchen tiles to “break even” instead of ordering them.

    It’s exactly this kind of FOSSeconomics that sunk Sun Microsystems.

    But hey… that is the magic of FOSS. Software can be arbitrarily made to be an “alternative” or “equivalent” to any other software you want. Too bad the market doesn’t think that way (hint: everyone knows libreoffice exists, but MS Office still makes bucketloads of cash for MS).

  8. Deaf Spy wrote, “StarOffice was another not very smart move.”

    They broke even on Day One. That’s great business. Their outlay for office suites and PCs became zero and the cost of producing StarOffice was minimal. They even sold some copies. They made great PR by opening the code.

  9. oiaohm says:

    https://lwn.net/Articles/637735/
    The reality is OpenOffice under IBM looks very much the way OpenOffice did under Sun. With the lions share of the development happening in the forks being ooo-build, go-oo and Libreoffice.

    The difference with Libreoffice over go-oo and ooo-build is with go-oo and ooo-build cared about keeping source compatibility in the hope SUN would scrap the contributor agreement and the project then could just merge back into OpenOffice. Where Libreoffice is basically stuff you we are going our own way.

    Reality Libreoffice really should have forked off a lot sooner. SUN was very careful to keep on promising to give OpenOffice it own foundation and everything else when they got around to it. When Oracle acquired SUN it came clear it was never happening.

    Claim that there is nothing Libreoffice can do now is such a joke is not funny. Libreoffice still has increasing deployment numbers so the race is for sure not over.

  10. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr what you have proven you are a idiot and you want to be proven a idiot again.

    Lets take a closer look at OpenOffice. In reality there was two.

    go-oo that was first called ooo-build that started in 2003 that most Linux Distributions shipped. And the version Sun Microsystems maintained.

    Ok what in heck is going on here. To submit to Sun Microsystems openoffice you had to sign a contribute agreement to be able to have patches applied. That basically said Sun Microsystems could do what ever they like with the source. So most the contributors to the Sun Microsoft openOffice was sun staff.

    Then you go and look at go-oo and ooobuild that importing all the Sun patches and Sun staff make up less than 1/4 of the patches. Difference no contribute agreement to sign. It was far more simple to get past legal department to submit to go-oo or ooo-build than Sun Microsystems OpenOffice.

    So what version of OpenOffice were you look at kurkosdr. Not the version Linux users were using that is for sure.

    When then opensourced StarOffice, Sun stayed the major contributor for a very, very long time.
    This is really bogus when you look back at what was going on in the complete open office eco system Deaf Spy. That clam ignores the existence of ooo-build/go-oo.

    Lack of research again. Deaf Spy. Don’t know history do you.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Docs,_Sheets,_and_Slides

    Reason why Google docs has so much support for MS stuff is that Microsoft bought a few companies cheap with that functionality who were happening to do on-line office suite google wanted.

    Writely originally ran on Microsoft ASP.NET technology which uses Microsoft Windows.
    Yes docs it self use to be a program written for Microsoft Windows. There was no Libreoffice online. Sun Microsystems had no interest in developing in 2006.

    http://googleappsupdates.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/complete-odf-file-format-support-and.html
    Google touched ODF at different times over the time frame in docs. So not that Google is not interested it not easy to make something designed to process MS formats process ODF that demand ISO standard conforming dates and the like.

    Really how many in a row wrong are you two going for.

  11. kurkosdr says:

    @Fifi

    There was this graph which showed the vast majority of OpenOffice contributors being paid Sun employees, but I am too lazy to dig it up for your a$$.

  12. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, did you figure out writeln()? No? Quiet, then.

  13. Deaf Spy says:

    Robert, I wouldn’t give Sun as an example. The company successfully reduced itself to poverty and out of business. Sun would actually stay as a paragon of business stupidity. While the biggest hit was paying 2 billion for an open source product, StarOffice was another not very smart move.

    When then opensourced StarOffice, Sun stayed the major contributor for a very, very long time. As a result, OpenOffice kept felling behind MS Office, and no effort in LO can repair the damage done.

    Don’t you believe? Look no further than here:
    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/office-editing-for-docs-s/gbkeegbaiigmenfmjfclcdgdpimamgkj

    Google don’t give a dime about LO. It is MSO all they care about.

  14. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy by the way if you watch the conference after debconf you see munich has moved to Libreoffice 4.1.6 has not started deployment in sep 2015 fully yet. Mail merge issue has gone. Common sense is starting to kick in instead having 300+ out of tree patches to Libreoffice being under 100 with objective of zero patches as it always should have been.

    Basically Munich had to learn the lesson the hard way. Munich migration has been slowed down by normal counter open source logic. Hey we fix it ourselves don’t share it we get advantage of it. When reality is you fix it your self you don’t share it you end up spending 100 times as much time fixing up when someone else changes something mainline than compared to mainline it that you would not had todo if merged the patches in the first place. In the end you end up sharing to mainline to get you out of maintenance hell.

    Munich is very much poster child in how much you can do completely wrong and still some how not run over budget doing a Linux Migration.

  15. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy
    “It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2 and deal with issues around KDE 4 being “broken” and “mail merge being broken and slow”, according to Glogowski”
    You got that techrepublic here did not you Deaf Spy and idiot who does not do research.

    http://annex.debconf.org/debconf-share/debconf15/slides/341-linux-in-the-city-of-munich-aka-limux.pdf page 8 .Deaf Spy is where techrepublic got it from.

    But LibreOffice 4.1.2 in has unacceptable shortcommings:
    KDE4 broken, mail merge broken and slow, API broken since
    OOo 3.2.1, Macros + WollMux need adaption, LO needs fixes

    Notice how the quote you brought up is incomplete.

    You go and watch the conference video that matches that set of slides and you find out hello its not Libreoffice mail merge that is broken and slow. Its the WollMux auto template overlay mail merge busted due to API changes in Libreoffice.

    NIH problem. To be correct WMFIH(We Must Fix It Here) problem so completely forgetting to work with upstream to fix it. Yes lets not fix the fault upstream of users deleting database files or failing to install base lets create our own program that is not mainline of course sooner or latter upstream API is going to change and break it. Of course most people dealing with open source have to learn this one sooner or latter.

    Don’t hack around a problem get it fixed upstream then it does not come back and bite you.

    Gets better did you not think to look up the version to see if the action was valid.
    https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2013/10/04/the-document-foundation-announces-libreoffice-4-1-2/
    Yes Libreoffice 4.1.2 is a testing release version marked as such. Testing release are known to the developers to contain some issues.

    For enterprise adoptions, The Document Foundation suggests LibreOffice 4.0.5 (with 4.0.6 expected soon), supported by certified professionals.
    Yes what the hell was Munch doing attempting to deploy 4.1.2 in the first place when the version marked for enterprise deployment is 4.0.5 then 4.0.6. In fact 4.1.2 never gets marked for enterprise deployment.

    The first version of Libreoffice 4.1 to be marked for Enterprise deployments is 4.1.4.

    https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/24372/why-cant-i-get-past-the-address-block-step-in-the-mail-merge-wizard-on-ubuntu/

    Ubuntu issue with Libreoffice 4.1.2 and mail merge was completely stupid. Different Ubuntu template installs with Libreoffice and it would skip installing base that was required so mail merge would work. So as soon as you attempted mail merge it would fail. Not that Libreoffice 4.1.2 could not mail merge perfectly well if it was fully installed it was failing to mail merge because it was only partly installed. Yes I know MS Office can mail merge without Access installed but Libreoffice being based on StarOffice has the logic until Libreoffice 5.1 that you don’t mail merge from a spreadsheet but only mail merge from a database so spreadsheet has to be translated to database to mail merge.

    Yes Munich was not exactly in for the best time with Glogowski as there is a lot of in face problem exists between keyboard and chair and it being Glogowski. Lot of issues under Xp was using Libreoffice with outlook express or the like instead of the recommend Thunderbird. Lets attempt mail merge with word, excel and Thunderbird guess what its not that dependable either.

    Fairly much it has not been that Libreoffice mail merge will not work. Its been install Libreoffice correctly with correct software and use it correctly and it will work in every single version including the one Munich had some trouble with. Yes the video shows problem existed between keyboard and chair.

    Deaf Spy really Munich is a complete example in how bad of IT you can get away with and have a Linux Migration work. Turns out quite bad.

    Note for future reference Deaf Spy techrepublic is a total crap place. You see them writing up stuff that appears to be interviews and it basically a person getting there hands on conference slides and cutting sections they think look good leading to complete miss interpretations on what is going on. They don’t bother watching the videos or if they do they don’t listen to the question on clarifications asked.

    Why was Munich pushing into testing so much they wanted the enhanced file compatibility before it was properly baked.

    Sorry Deaf Spy the mail merge stuff is base on a one off article that was a miss representation that you have been spreading all over the place.

    Very important with conference slides as well to go watch the video before using them in an arguement as well.

  16. Deaf Spy wrote, ““It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2”.

    Accepting a false premise as truth results in a false conclusion. Nothing forced Munich to adopt LibreOffice 4.1.2 despite its bugs and to cling to it all these years. That was the second bug-fix release for 4.1. EOL for 4.1 was May 28, 2014 at 4.1.6. Why cling to 4.1.2? Why didn’t they migrate to 4.1.6 and later? As with all software, a new release may well be buggy. It was perfectly sound to test and debug such a release without implementing it system-wide. It was an error to keep it, bugs and all. Such new releases are not recommended for use by production systems.

  17. Deaf Spy, wrong thrice, wrote, “I fail to see how this is economically-efficient. You end up paying more for your services. On top of that they prove to be currently inferior.”

    The efficiency comes from not having to do it all by one’s self. If 1000 organizations support LibreOffice, they only have to do 0.1% of the work each. Prime example is SUN who bought Star Office for less than one round of licensing and PCs for their thousands of users. After opening the source code, their costs dropped significantly as the world took over the project yet they could still use the code for $0. Compare that to M$’s office suite where the world pays the whole cost annually, forever. Do the maths.

    On the matter of lock-in, consider that one can close and lock a door and throw the key out the window while still indoors. Nothing prevents that even if it makes no sense.

  18. Deaf Spy says:

    Robert brings a couple of interesting points:

    That’s the right way to do IT. Pay real people where you live instead of M$ somewhere else.

    I fail to see how this is economically-efficient. You end up paying more for your services. On top of that they prove to be currently inferior. While we can argue whether this is the right way to do IT, it is most certainly the wrong way to do business.

    The only reason Limux is still to be had in Munich is politics. The current party has no bollocks to admit they made a huge mistake and trashed and keep trashing huge amounts of their taxpayers’ money for an unfortunate experiment.

    They may have customized LibreOffice and locked themselves in.

    Now, now. I thought free software automatically excludes lock-ins. Seems you can lock yourself in with “freedom”, after all. 🙂

  19. Deaf Spy says:

    Deaf Spy. Reality mail merge in Libreoffice has in fact worked.

    Fifi, you illiterate, fraudulent and lying little fellow, are you taking pride in failing the examination for the village idiot in this forum?

    In another topic I quoted this already, but you obviously can’t follow even a discussion properly. Here it is again for you, just in case your Google skills fail you:
    “It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2 and deal with issues around KDE 4 being “broken” and “mail merge being broken and slow”, according to Glogowski”

    Go back to writeln(), little one.

  20. oiaohm says:

    https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/56100?hl=en
    https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/1250232?hl=en

    kurkosdr you are badly wrong. Youtube allows you to download the MP4 or webm you in fact uploaded as long as you are in the account that uploaded it and it has not be tagged and being investigated for being a copyright infringing work.

    Google Music. As a publisher you can download the mp3/flac/what ever file you uploaded to google unlimited times without google added watermarks. As person acquiring songs by Google Music you can download the MP3 with watermark twice in browsers that are not chrome or android app and unlimited number in chrome or android app.

    This was all introduced in 2012 when they fixed up the privacy policy and found opps we are taking authors/publishers works without giving them methods to get them back unmodified what is technically illegal.

    Basically kurkosdr there is no need to be ripping streams off youtube or google music for the stuff you uploaded since the 2012 change. In fact there is absolutely no reason to be ripping Google music at all since the best playback it gives you for a song you did not upload is mp3 with watermark that you are allowed to download by google chrome unlimited number of times and then use with other music players.

    Youtube does not forbid Author putting link in description for where to download the file straight from the likes of google drive or equal.

    http://www.osnews.com/story/2554/Google_Consolidates_Updates_Its_Privacy_Policy
    Which basically means that all your YouTube, Play Store, Google Music and Google Movies preferences will be used to build a Google Ads profile of you.
    LOL. Really you did not understand what had changed.

    All the different Privacy Policies Google had on all it services before 2012 allowed them todo exactly the same stuff when it came to making Google Ads profile on your. So in this regard absolutely nothing has changed since the services were first created just no one has bothered to notice. There is one change all allowances for that advertising profile data to go out to third parties for all google services has been removed as part of the 2012 privacy policy change what is a hell of an improvement for reducing number of people with that information.

    The policy around Microsoft advertising profiling allows Microsoft to share that information with third parties yes that includes the advertisements they show on Windows 10 desktop so some advertiser could know exactly how many hours you use your PC. Google privacy policy restricts advertisers to only seeing collated data. So in advertising there are other parties to put ahead Google for having horribly bad policy. Ok Microsoft might not be letting this information out but their policy should reflect that they don’t.

    Key thing downloading original files as uploader from youtube, google music and many other services before 2012 privacy policy change was forbid by the privacy policy/usage policies.

    2012 was more rights for end users of Google services and more protection for end users of Google services than they had before. Google Music and You-tube were one way before 2012 after 2012 they are bidirectional for those who make content.

    So kurkosdr claim is based on false information. In fact the current privacy policy of Google mandates they must find you some way to get the data you uploaded back if there is not a current interface for you todo so and the data was not committing some form of offense like copyright infringement.

    Yes there are services out there who data return rights for end users is missing Google was one of those places but has not been since 2012 privacy policy change.

    DrLoser you are right. The stuff kurkosdr is complaining about has to be because he has not created content for Google Music or Youtube and monitored the change in the interface like in 2012 download options magically appearing. So kurkosdr has to be copying other peoples work without proper permission todo so.

    Yes kurkosdr went chasing a fake dragon and failed to see a particular dragon had been put to death at that time.

    Google may not be great but there is a hell of a lot worse that we should be complaining about. Google has proven they will correct policy if you point out exactly how its flawed and the alteration will not completely destroy revenue stream.

    This is why I asked exactly what was wrong with Google EULA they are a company were we stand a chance of fixing it if it possible to be fixed. There are other companies were we just don’t stand a chance.

    Over 40 percent of Android phones don’t have Google Play or Google services. Just happens in China and other restrictive countries those options are worthless. So there are quite a lot of Android out there to use where you don’t have to agree to the Google services stuff.

  21. DrLoser says:

    How exactly does a Google services user have “access to data” when using Google Music or even YouTube? I mean, without using hacks that make the iTunes song liberation procedure* seem like an easy-breezy.

    I don’t think that Mr Pogson was referring to your juvenile tendency to steal other people’s data, Kurks. I imagine he was referring to his own data.

    Then again, who knows?

  22. kurkosdr says:

    Sorry chump, deal with Windows and its Cloudy OS.

    I don’t use an Cloudz in Windows 10, besides Skype and the occasional free app from the Store. I don’t use Microsoft online services just so Windows 10 doesn’t start “syncing” and chew away resources in true Redmond-inefficient manner.

  23. dougman says:

    Re: Personally, I am afraid of the cloud.

    Sorry chump, deal with Windows and its Cloudy OS.

  24. dougman says:

    Re: Google Ads?

    Are those like the Start, Bing and Spotlight ads in the actual user interface? Lovely, now you have ads in your lock screen on Windows 10..woohoo, yay for progress!

  25. kurkosdr says:

    Personally, I am afraid of the cloud. Especially after seeing companies pull old services (some of them featuring purchased content) without notice.

    At least with local apps, it’s mine forever.

  26. kurkosdr says:

    What does “access to the data” have to do with “lock-in,” Robert?

    How exactly does a Google services user have “access to data” when using Google Music or even YouTube? I mean, without using hacks that make the iTunes song liberation procedure* seem like an easy-breezy. For those not in the know, Google Music and YouTube are one-way, upload-only services. YouTube even uses DASH playback for 1080p, so you can’t easily “rip” the 1080p streams you upload. Similar situation for Google Music.

    But cloud gives users AccessToData(tm)!! No it doesn’t, there is potential for lock-in depending on vendor, just like there is for local apps.

    When advocating thin-clients and cloud, Pog claims it’s good for businesses because it restricts what users can do/mess with, and then claims it’s good for home users because it’s doesn’t restrict what users can do/mess with.

    Okayy…

    *aka burn to CD-RW or virtual optical disk image, then rip

  27. DrLoser says:

    Lock-in is a lot harder with web/cloud applications where the users have access to the data. e.g. WP allows one to download a backup of the whole site and the database.

    What does “access to the data” have to do with “lock-in,” Robert? Nothing,, that’s what. “Lock-in” refers to systems, applications, and perhaps most important of all, work-flows. (Just because your primary use for Beast is to serve up items from your recipe database does not preclude others from having more complex workflow requirements.)

    If you’re bleating on about “data lock-in,” I can only assume that you have given up arguing about actual lock-in, for some reason best known to yourself. (And no, I do not deny that actual lock-in exists.)

    Which would a knowledgeable person choose.

    #1 Lockin with Microsoft, with no hope of escape unless you endure lots of pain.

    #2 Lockin with Linux. Oh wait, there is no such thing, one can fork and carryon.

    I think a “knowledgeable person” would choose the former, Dougie. Are you seriously suggesting that forking an entire Linux ecosystem, or even minor chunks of it, would be “pain-free?”

    Seriously? No wonder you’re on “sabbatical.” Carry on.

  28. kurkosdr says:

    Exactly what did google put what was bad into there EULA change??????

    This:
    http://www.osnews.com/story/25543/Google_Consolidates_Updates_Its_Privacy_Policy

    Which basically means that all your YouTube, Play Store, Google Music and Google Movies preferences will be used to build a Google Ads profile of you.

    Want to keep using your $600 Android “flagship”? Click accept or else…

    So, unlike changes in MS EULA, this one by Google actually had a real impact on users.

    PS: Also, Pog fails to mention that, if the guys behind a GPLv2 piece of software agree to relicense under the GPLv3 or a proprietary license, all the new version of the code (aka the ones with the security patches) will be under the new license. You can fork the old version and continue from there yourself, but newer versions of the software are under the new license…… there are license changes under the user’s nose even in FOSSlandia.

  29. oiaohm says:

    kurkosdr sorry forced EULA changed happened with Windows 8 to 8.1.

    Basically don’t accept Microsoft EULA change when they decide to push it kiss good buy to all future updates. So your claim is close but not exactly right.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2008/09/google-on-chrome-eula-controversy-our-bad-well-change-it/

    Now its not like Google has not put incorrect clauses in EULA then latter removed it.

    Please also note Microsoft did change the EULA on SP2 of XP and SP3 of windows 2000.
    Exactly what did google put what was bad into there EULA change??????

    Or are you the idiot chasing fake dragons kurkosdr.

  30. kurkosdr says:

    Let’s see. EULA.txt for XP never stated that M$ could just replace our software yet they did one night even with automatic updates turned off. I had to reinstall software on every PC in the lab as a result and we never did get the scanner working again… I’ve also had XP reboot on me deliberately in the middle of a lecture. Where is that in the EULA??? 4##!%%$$@$!!!

    Yeah, because the EULA covers every functional aspect/behavior of a system, which is the reason we don’t need things like Software Modelling… oh yeah we do. Hence, the EULA doesn’t cover every functional aspect/behavior of the system.

    Anyway, back to the point, MS will never change your EULA if you don’t consent to it, did not impose any subscription plans, it’s all in your little imagination. Tell me Pog, do you see any dragons or giants in the following picture? http://www.mlenny.com/wp-content/uploads/21653386.jpg If so, do you get the irresistible urge to fight against the things you see in the picture?

    An BTW, no comment about Google suddenly changing the EULA for the Google services, which integrate with most Android ROMs out there. Nice.

  31. oiaohm says:

    Really, Robert? Than would you care to explain why your pet example, Munich, hire a whole team of Linux admins and developers? And mail-merge is still broken.
    Deaf Spy. Reality mail merge in Libreoffice has in fact worked.

    http://www.wernerroth.de/en/staroffice/faq/faq.html 5.0 StarOffice before OpenOffice every releases has mail merge.

    It worked back in StarOffice 5.0. Only issue has been users delete the database file that wraps over the calc file to make it exposed for mail merging.

    So functionality works. Annoys users. Problem is classes as problem exists between keyboard and chair so put in the not important to fix stack of course.

    Of course Libreoffice 5.1 that is coming out at long last removes the means for user to cause this problem.

    I am pretty sure that if the costs for those specialists is put on the equation fairly, the TCO of Munich will nicely exceed a subscription to Office 365.
    Being a not researched idiot. Why when the new people were elected they found out to their shock horror that the Munich total IT spend now is less than the price of buying Office 365 subscriptions. This is what lead to funding to fix Libreoffice mail merge annoyance being found with a stack of other things. Sorry MS Office with MS Windows to run it is quite a high cost.

    Munich is one of the biggest funders behind Libreoffice Online. Reality its going to be cheaper to build their own MS Office on-line replacement than use Microsoft solution as well.

    So not a single point in that comment in fact has grounds. Just made up junk with zero research.

  32. kurkosdr wrote, “Microsoft never, ever, changed the EULA post-purchase for a user, without giving the user a way out.”

    Let’s see. EULA.txt for XP never stated that M$ could just replace our software yet they did one night even with automatic updates turned off. I had to reinstall software on every PC in the lab as a result and we never did get the scanner working again… I’ve also had XP reboot on me deliberately in the middle of a lecture. Where is that in the EULA??? 4##!%%$$@$!!!

  33. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “What do you think Robert Pogson, are you up to the migration, or are you too “locked in” to Debian?”

    I have used Red Hat in the past. It worked well but I like the much greater flexibility of Debian. With Red Hat, the current advice for finding a package is, “Go to http://rhn.redhat.com, log in with your redhat network ID, and then search packages at the very top.”, so Red Hat wants to own me. That’s a big turnoff. CentOS does have means of searching for packages but it’s pretty crude compared to Debian. You have to be root, for instance. I don’t with Debian. The number and diversity of packages available with CentOS is tiny. Debian GNU/Linux is like the Garden of Eden by comparison.

  34. Deaf Spy wrote, “would you care to explain why your pet example, Munich, hire a whole team of Linux admins and developers?”

    That’s the right way to do IT. Pay real people where you live instead of M$ somewhere else. OTOH it just makes no sense to stick with an outdated version of LibreOffice. I have no idea why they do that. They may have customized LibreOffice and locked themselves in. They should have contributed useful changes upstream and then they would benefit from everyone’s bug-fixes, not just their own. That’s the right way to do FLOSS. Munich does contribute to LibreOffice, so I/we are not understanding the problem. Why are they using an old version? Why is their mail-merge broken while others’ is not?

  35. kurkosdr says:

    disable the updates = disable the specific updates

  36. kurkosdr says:

    I still expect Robert or someone explain how it is perfectly fine when Google change their EULA’s every now and then, but it is totally wrong when MS do it.

    Never mind that Microsoft never, ever, changed the EULA post-purchase for a user, without giving the user a way out. Sure, Windows 10 changes the EULA for Windows 7 and 8.x users, but you can disable the updates and stay with the old EULA. And your OS still receives security patches

    Meanwhile, Google did a coup where they allowed them to “share” data among their services, which basically means your Play Store, YouTube and Google Music purchases will be used to target you with Google Ads. But no FOSSies (or FSF freedomite) complained for that. And did I mention Google services integrate deeply with Android (you need a Google account to use the Play Store, which is the way to get apps for 99% of people).

    So, Pogson is fessing about some completely fictional MS EULA change forced onto users and some completely fictional forced subscription, while the very real Google EULA (TOS) forced onto users is not even mentioned

  37. Deaf Spy says:

    I still expect Robert or someone explain how it is perfectly fine when Google change their EULA’s every now and then, but it is totally wrong when MS do it.

    Gee, when will you wake up and realize Google is actually ass-raping (pardon my French) all FLOSS for their very own and private benefit?

  38. Deaf Spy says:

    It’s pretty easy and well documented. There are simple recipes all over the web

    Really, Robert? Than would you care to explain why your pet example, Munich, hire a whole team of Linux admins and developers? And mail-merge is still broken.

    I am pretty sure that if the costs for those specialists is put on the equation fairly, the TCO of Munich will nicely exceed a subscription to Office 365.

  39. dougman says:

    Nobody believes you.

  40. wizard emeritus says:

    Nobody asked you

  41. dougman says:

    Nobody believes a word you say Wizard Emeritus

  42. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Nobody asked you any questions Dougie.

  43. dougman says:

    Which would a knowledgeable person choose.

    #1 Lockin with Microsoft, with no hope of escape unless you endure lots of pain.

    #2 Lockin with Linux. Oh wait, there is no such thing, one can fork and carryon.

    Trying to perpetuate that Lockin with Google is the same as Microsoft is disingenuous and purposely ignorant. Perfect example of someone escaping Microsoft: http://davelargo.blogspot.com/

  44. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I never needed any training to set up GNU/Linux clients or servers. It’s pretty easy and well documented. There are simple recipes all over the web.”

    Goodie for you Robert Pogson. The remaining 99.99% of those who actually were able to leverage the easy to use tools of Google Apps to put together real workflows are not going to just pick up and wander off into the internet to roll their own, mostly because it is not that easy to do so.

    If you want to get an idea of how lock-in works for real, lets see you move from Debian Linux to CentOS 7.1 as your distribution. I’ll even point you to some of the cookbooks and how to’s for CentOS.

    What do you think Robert Pogson, are you up to the migration, or are you too “locked in” to Debian?

  45. Wizard Emeritus says:

    ” BT uses OpenStack, at least for the time being. Another win for FLOSS.”

    And I quote…

    “British Telecom (BT) is considering opting for a proprietary technology for its virtual enterprise services…”

    Win?

    OH BTW, one of the Hallmarks of OpenStack is that it can interface with and Manage proprietary Virtualization environments like VMWare vSphere , Microsoft Hyper-V.

    But even more of a hallmark of OpenStack is that the only implementations of openstack that have any scalability are those created by companies like HP, Cisco and VMWare/

  46. I just noted a news-item that’s related:

    The European Commission just awarded it’s first cloud contract. All offers were comparable in performance so they went for lowest price: BT. BT uses OpenStack, at least for the time being. Another win for FLOSS.

  47. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “The dirty little secret about so called “lock-in” is that it can occur with ANY set of software tools. “

    Lock-in is a lot harder with web/cloud applications where the users have access to the data. e.g. WP allows one to download a backup of the whole site and the database. It’s not trivial but certainly migration can be done. On days when WP was giving me trouble I thought a lot about doing that. There are several alternatives with importation scripts ready to go. The cloud is no different as long as you can access the data. I’ve played with Google a bit and files are files. I may not like that certain file-formats are not allowed in but whatever’s there can be downloaded and put to use elsewhere.

  48. DrLoser wrote, “who may need to be retrained.”

    I never needed any training to set up GNU/Linux clients or servers. It’s pretty easy and well documented. There are simple recipes all over the web. Done once, it stays done for years and all that’s needed is maintaining the data something that needs to be done with whatever system. e.g. this blog. The total cost of ownership was a domain name, a rental on some hoster. Didn’t even need to buy any hardware. Cost of maintenance is basically editing these stupid comments and a few posts. Trivial.

  49. DrLoser says:

    The reality is that any School that is using Google and who is is taking advantage of the apps and tools of the Google environment to implement courseware or administrative tools is not going to be able to just “move to Linux and FOSS”

    Needs a little more context, I feel. Google is not “Linux and FOSS”, no matter what Mr Pogson purports to believe. (Although I’m sure he knows better.)

    I’m not sure that the cost of moving from Google to “Linux and FOSS” is any greater or lesser than the cost of moving from M$ to “Linux and FOSS.” I suspect the two costs are converging.

    One thing I am very sure of, however. Outside a small number of school districts — say 5% in Northern America and far fewer outside Northern America — no school district is going to find this cost worthwhile.

    Consequently the number of school districts that do so is going to be so small as to be practically immeasurable.

    A more interesting question, perhaps, is how (as an educator) you can get governors and teachers on board and work out a way to get present-day students interested in, say, GNU.

    I would think this is a tough ask, but come the hour, come the man.

    Robert, your prospectus, please.

  50. DrLoser says:

    Oh, and incidentally?

    The wicked (in both senses) Windows server can be amortized over four or five years. Let’s give it an AAV of, say, $600.

    The moron employed to run a GNU/Linux server is regrettably not amortized. That’s an AAV over four or five years of $20,000.

    And for that $20,000, all you get is an incompetent moron.

    Cost versus benefit, Mr Pogson. Cost versus benefit. And in terms that the average board of School Governors will readily appreciate.

  51. DrLoser says:

    No school in which I was working was more invested than using Chrome browser or Google search.

    Which means that you have no personal experience of a school using modern (if locked-down) PCs like ChromeBooks, Robert. Leading the disinterested reader to assume that you are probably five or ten years out of date in the teaching profession, and your opinions are weightless.

    Oh, and that “all they need is a GNU/Linux Server” rubbish?

    All very nice if you have a Robert Pogson on board. Not so nice if you need to hire a specific IT specialist who may need to be retrained.

    As you repeatedly point out, Robert, school budgets are heavily restrained. Pared to the bone, even.

    It costs $2,000 for a wicked Windows server.

    It costs $20,000 for a moron who will claim that they can support a GNU/Linux server.

  52. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “No school in which I was working was more invested than using Chrome browser or Google search. ”

    But that says nothing about the the other 99.1% of schools, does it now Robert Pogson. The reality is that any School that is using Google and who is is taking advantage of the apps and tools of the Google environment to implement courseware or administrative tools is not going to be able to just “move to Linux and FOSS”

    The dirty little secret about so called “lock-in” is that it can occur with ANY set of software tools. Once an individual or institution has invested any kind of time in learning a system, moving to another system WILL be such a painful and potentially time consuming path that the institution will simply find the money to pay up. IN fact, many schools if faced with this situation would probably find it less disruptive to just negotiate the lowest fees possible and pay up.

  53. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “Suppose you are heavily invested in Google apps and google announces a change in their terms of service. That School has just as many problems.”

    No school in which I was working was more invested than using Chrome browser or Google search. These days, many have bought Chromebooks but these are general purpose PCs that can be repurposed even if Google disappeared tomorrow. Others have cloud services but those are $free for schools, so that’s not a huge investment. If Google began to charge for such services, schools have many options because there is competition in cloudy services and they can always install their own servers and run GNU/Linux + FLOSS.

  54. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Suppose you’re a school with a budget made six months back and M$ suddenly changes your terms of service. ”

    Suppose you are heavily invested in Google apps and google announces a change in their terms of service. That School has just as many problems.

    Next fantasy.

  55. Deaf Spy wrote, “Microsoft are totally no exception here. I wonder why you make such a fuss about it.”

    I don’t do any business with M$ if I can help it so it’s not a problem for me but for others. Suppose you’re a school with a budget made six months back and M$ suddenly changes your terms of service. Problem. Increased cost and no budget to cover it. That’s one of the major reasons I switched schools to GNU/Linux. Costs were known better and were affordable. e.g. Minutes per day of tech support rather than hours. e.g. The last school where I work had practically given up on using IT in education because they could not afford to ship PCs 400 miles by air for “repair”reinstallation of That Other OS. They weren’t even using the computer lab, except to store dead PCs when I arrived. 90% weren’t dead at all but TOOS failed to boot. I reinstalled TOOS but could not afford the time to keep reinstalling TOOS, so we switched to GNU/Linux and my efforts declined precipitously. GNU/Linux works for schools while TOOS is a burden.

  56. Deaf Spy says:

    M$ isn’t. They can supply a new EULA.txt any time they want in their forced updates and render the system unusable until the new one is “Accepted”.

    Well, this is exactly what happens with all web-apps, namely Google’s. They simply shove new terms in your face, “take it or leave it”.

    See, Robert, the world is moving on to a new type of services. Whether we like it or not. Microsoft are totally no exception here. I wonder why you make such a fuss about it.

  57. dougman says:

    Re: Satya Nadella wants to expand the customer base of Windows, not reduce it to people who desperately need win32 support and are willing to swallow the subscription.

    LOL, what makes you think Nadella will always be the CEO?

    For that matter, you are also forgetting that M$ and it’s CEO has a board to answer to. The board can control and override anything the CEO does. All it would take is for M$ to start losing revenue in a few markets, followed up with bad ratings and press. I would guarantee that a annual subscription would be brought to the table.

    Windows and Office is M$ bread-n-butter, anything else is just a distraction, albeit profitable or unprofitable.

  58. DrLoser says:

    Once M$ obtain a billion users by cramming WIN10 down their throats. I am VERY sure a subscription model would be seriously looked at.

    A very interesting theory. Get one free, pay by subscription.

    Not only does this confirm my suspicion that you are best called Dog-Brain, Dog-Brain, but …
    … actually, that is the only sensible conclusion to reach. You really are completely unemployable in the IT industry, aren’t you?

  59. kurkosdr says:

    Again, any Windows subscription would alienate customers and push them to chromebooks, and any windows devices costing above 800$ would be dead kill by Macbook Airs, because the extra cost of the Macbook Air would be offset in two years from the lack of subscription. What you are essentially claiming (subscription windows) is something Microsoft vehemently rejects. There is no indication, not even a Tech crunch rumour about the thing you are claiming.

    For the FOSSies that are disconnected to reality: Microsoft is becoming cheaper (at least to retail customers), by giving Windows 10 for free to OEMs that make devices with screens up to 9-inches, and offering free upgrades (the fact they are forcing them is a separate matter). MS are not free, but they are becoming cheaper.

    Satya Nadella wants to expand the customer base of Windows, not reduce it to people who desperately need win32 support and are willing to swallow the subscription.

    So, take your conspiracy theory elsewhere.

    What could be a problem however with this LastWindowsVersion(tm) nonsense Nadella is talking about (which actually means he plans Win10 to have a big lifespan and lots of 10.x releases) is the sudden depreciation of features and compatibility, with no old version to stay in.

  60. dougman says:

    Re: that subscription fear-mongering is pure BS

    Once M$ obtain a billion users by cramming WIN10 down their throats. I am VERY sure a subscription model would be seriously looked at; $49.99 a year times a billion is serious change.

    As Robert stated, EULAs can be changed at any time, as can CEO’s. So enjoy your Windows Spyware, henceforth known as “Windows to your Soul”

  61. kurkosdr wrote, “Windows 7 users are bound by the old EULA.”

    M$ isn’t. They can supply a new EULA.txt any time they want in their forced updates and render the system unusable until the new one is “Accepted”.

  62. kurkosdr says:

    @Pog

    But Windows 7 users are bound by the old EULA.

    Anyway, that subscription fear-mongering is pure BS you pulled out of your posteriors.

    Microsoft wants to force Windows 10 on everyone to boost their Metro ecosystem and maybe their online services, that’s it, everything else is “we didn’t go to the Moon”-style conspiracy theories.

    Microsoft would be insane to move to a subscription model when 1) chromebooks are an alternative as a secondary PC and 2) they are still making money hand over first *from Windows 10* from all those windows 10 pre-installations on devices with screens larger that 9-inches.

    But anyway, I have no intention to further try to convince you about that, or why The President doesn’t in-fact have a reptilian tounge.

  63. DeafSpy says:

    Robert: “Nobody knows the trouble I see-e-e-e”.

    Interestingly though, basically no one else sees it.

  64. kurkosdr wrote, “Oh yeah, the mythical Windows subscription that would break existing licenses and lead OEMs running to any alternative (ChromeOS).”

    Yes, that EULA from Hell that forbids mass action lawsuits. Are individuals really going to sue M$? Unlikely.

    ” To the extent included with Windows, Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote are licensed for your personal, non-commercial use, unless you have commercial use rights under a separate agreement.”

    See? You have to pay for commercial use… So much for SMBs running from the garage/home office.

    “this license does not give you any right to, and you may not:…use the software as server software, for commercial hosting, make the software available for simultaneous use by multiple users over a network, install the software on a server and allow users to access it remotely, or install the software on a device for use only by remote users;”

    “The softwareperiodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.”

    Presto! Last night we changed the EULA and you have to send us money to access yourour data.

    “This agreement applies to the Windows software that is preinstalled on your device, or acquired from a retailer and installed by you, the media on which you received the software (if any), any fonts, icons, images or sound files included with the software, and also any Microsoft updates, upgrades, supplements or services for the software, unless other terms come with them.”

    Yes, I think that covers it. Essentially, if you use “10”, M$ owns you and your computer. This makes the EULA from “10” much worse than what came with XP. M$ is locking folks up and throwing away the key.

  65. kurkosdr says:

    Madeley = Nadella (autocorrect)

  66. kurkosdr says:

    Apparently, M$ plans to start charging monthly/annually for “10” real soon now, so the party will be over

    Oh yeah, the mythical Windows subscription that would break existing licenses and lead OEMs running to any alternative (ChromeOS). Even if a subscription license is introduced, existing licenses won’t be affected, and there are lots of them out there. Not that it would happen. It didn’t happen back in 2001 when there were no real alternatives…

    Microsoft is just scared of Desktops/Laptops being the new workstations (or the new “Minis”) and mobile devices being the new PCs and they want to shove Metro down the throats of everyone.

    Bill Gates and Ray Ozzie would have done it by bringing Metro apps to Windows 7 (using a library translating Metro API calls to win32, think how there is a library translating Material Design apps to Android 4.x API), Sinofsky and now Madeley went for the juvenile/hipster way of “You aren’t running the latest OS version. Whaaaa! Whaaa! Why aren’t you running the latest OScversion?” (compat for apps/drivers on which considerable money has been invested, and muscle memory for UIs, doesn’t exist in the hipster’s mind)

  67. DrLoser says:

    It’s only a matter of time before Fifi suddenly “discovers” ARM Trust Zones, and retrospectively claims Flawless Victory in a field of which, before googling, he was entirely ignorant.

    I can hardly wait. It’s entertainment like this that keeps me reading.

  68. DrLoser says:

    Sure, I can. Samsung and others do it millions of times per annum.

    That is indeed good news, Robert.

    Perhaps you could provide a link to the current version of the Google OS that powers Android?

  69. DrLoser says:

    Interestingly, I might be the only one here who genuinely uses “GNU.”

    My editor of choice is Emacs, Blessed Be The Toe-Fungus Nibbler. And in fact I adhere to purity, which means that I eschew the Heretic Lucid version.

    I write lexers and parsers with Flex and Bison.

    I’ve even been known to use the Gnu version of Awk when I can’t be bothered to think of a better alternative. (There are as many better alternatives as there are grains of sand on the beach.)

    And of course, from time to time, I compile and link and build C programs via gcc.

    I use GNU as a tool, Robert. Not as a shibboleth.

  70. DrLoser wrote, ” Bow down and worship a massive corporate entity that has no intention whatsoever of letting you anywhere near their Precious Source Code!
     
    (Oh, wait, you can download it. And examine it. And modify it. And redistribute it.)”

    Sure, I can. Samsung and others do it millions of times per annum.

  71. DrLoser says:

    Apparently, M$ plans to start charging monthly/annually for “10” real soon now, so the party will be over.

    Nice try, Pog. Enterprises get to purchase it.

  72. DrLoser says:

    You know GNU/Linux is losing relevance from the fact arstechnica and theverge didn’t even bother to mention the new tablet, and they didn’t even bother to mention that an Ubuntu LTS with Mir is finally shipping.

    Meet the new boss! Same as the old boss! (From the seminal “We won’t get fooled again,” by The Who.)

    Bow down and worship Google, Robert! (Oh, wait, you were already doing that.) Bow down and worship a massive corporate entity that has no intention whatsoever of letting you anywhere near their Precious Source Code!

    (Oh, wait, you can download it. And examine it. And modify it. And redistribute it.)

    (Oh, wait, you can’t.)

    Meet the new boss …

  73. dougman wrote, “Windows 10 is free, so it’s not “purchasable” so I suppose one could say, it does not count either.”

    Apparently, M$ plans to start charging monthly/annually for “10” real soon now, so the party will be over. It will be interesting to watch their share drop when the world realizes there’s no free lunch with TOOS. For decades, many folks believed it was $free simply because they didn’t pay directly for that line-item… Business, OTOH, treated M$ as a tax they had to bear and could “afford”. Chickens are coming home to roost. If M$ loses a significant share, they will ramp up prices and the slaves will appreciate slavery.

  74. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Well, Windows 10 is free, so it’s not “purchasable” so I suppose one could say, it does not count either.”

    Nice try Dougie, Enterprises get to purchase it.

  75. dougman says:

    Re: Until its purchasable…..it doesn’t count!

    Well, Windows 10 is free, so it’s not “purchasable” so I suppose one could say, it does not count either.

  76. dougman says:

    KUKU, stop with the lying.

    ARC Welder is alive and well. Updated: February 3, 2016

    https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/arc-welder/emfinbmielocnlhgmfkkmkngdoccbadn

  77. kurkosdr says:

    What up Pog and Dog = Wake up Pog and Dog.

  78. kurkosdr says:

    Remember, ChromeOS and Android is merging soon?

    Yes, that’s why I said this in my first post:

    There was no revolution in mobile devices. We are just under new management (Google). Deal with it and stop pretending ARM will ever mean anything else than Android to the 99.9% of users

    The ChromeOS/Android merge will soak up all those ABMers who are not GNU/Linux fanatics, plus any disgrunted Windows users who don’t have money for Macs, leaving GNU/Linux with… nothing.

    You know GNU/Linux is losing relevance from the fact arstechnica and theverge didn’t even bother to mention the new tablet, and they didn’t even bother to mention that an Ubuntu LTS with Mir is finally shipping. Two years ago they ‘d have been “tablet with ubuntu preinstalled and an LTS with Mir!!11” *cum* / *squirt*

    Arc Welder? Damn thing isn’t even maintained anymore, Google has “pivoted” away from it (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/the-pixel-cs-bumpy-road-from-chrome-os-concept-to-android-adoptee/ ), and very few apps run on it (is Instagram included?)

    Google is bringing Chrome OS to Android, not Android to Chrome OS. Arc Welder has no place in this new strategy.

    Google woke up and realized it’s silly for them to get behind GNU/Linux (Chrome OS) when they can have their own semi-proprietary OS they control (via Play Services and Android Compatibility Definition) or completely control new form factors like Android TV and Android Wear (any maybe Android Desktop?)

    Please combine this info with the info that Google wants “Apple-like” control over Nexus hardware.

    What up Pog and Dog. There was no revolution, we are just under new management (Google).

  79. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Remember, ChromeOS and Android is merging soon? Did you purposely forget about that?”

    Until its purchasable and is supported on a Crapbook by Screwgle it doesn’t count!

    Cue the gratuitous adolescent insult(s)…

  80. dougman says:

    *SIGH*

    KUKU, quit being a DICK!

    Skype, FB Messenger and WhatsApp are available in the Ubuntu software center.

    Viber would be an individual install.

    Instagram could be installed via ARC Welder.

    However, all these apps that are available on Android, can be installed in Chrome. Remember, ChromeOS and Android is merging soon? Did you purposely forget about that?

  81. kurkosdr says:

    *sigh*

    Allow me to resubmit the following question for a third time:

    What would you recommend to users who want Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Viber, Instagram and Skype equivalents on their Ubuntu Tablet?

    (“I don’t know” is a perfectly valid answer, as is “nah, you won’t get most of these”, I am just trying to gauge the real-world success potential of the thing)

    PS: Also, to all you Mir haters, how do you feel now that Canonical has shipped and is shipping their OS pre-installed on phones and tablets, by easily flashing their OS on existing Android hardware, thanks to Mir sharing low – level details like Google ‘ protocol buffers with Android, while Way land distros needs drivers specifically coded for it? (aka you don’t get any tablets with those distros preinstalled)

    PPS: No keyboard cover for the Ubuntu Tablet? Whyyyy? If the ~250€ price point of the Android version is maintained, it would have been the cheapest hybrid)

  82. kurkosdr wrote, “Was referring to the first Touch apps you would install on an Ubuntu tablets (aka ones intended to be used with your finger), not the desktop apps you mention.”

    I’m not interested in “touch”. I have a mouse and keyboard that have worked reliably for years. Ubuntu claims this device will work well with touch. I don’t know their application list but most people have a short list. They can still run Android apps if they wish, even on GNU/Linux.

    I do use a small smartphone sometimes and know the difference. If I’m mobile a smartphone is what I would use as it is very portable. A tablet to me is just a general purpose PC to which I can connect monitor/keyboard/mouse/USB-thingies.

  83. kurkosdr says:

    Was referring to the first Touch apps you would install on an Ubuntu tablets (aka ones intended to be used with your finger), not the desktop apps you mention.

    Also, allow me to resubmit the following question:

    What would you recommend to users who want Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Viber, Instagram and Skype equivalents on their Ubuntu Tablet?

    PS: Gotta love how the biggest advantage of this tablet is supposedly to run desktop apps, yet they opted for ARM, not x86. Didn’t they learn from Microsoft’s Surface RT mistake? When your OS is facing a shortage of Touch apps compared to its and Android and it’s only advantage is the ability to run desktop apps, go for x86 to have access to all the already – compiled FOSS and proprietary software out there.

  84. kurkosdr wrote, “Assuming you just unboxed this Ubuntu Tablet, what are the first 10 apps you would install on it? Or even the first 5?”

    Probably, Canonical will have the usual suspects: FireFox, VLC, LibreOffice. I would add recoll, GNUmeric, screenshooter, mariadb, apache, dict/dictd, inkscape, gimp, mirage, openshot, audacity, imagemagick, KVM, and a few others. Some of these may not be available on Ubuntu so I would look into converting to Debian GNU/Linux. I’m not a fan of Canonical’s distro. I doubt I would buy this with a 2gB restriction. That’s just silly for me as I will not run it always on battery nor carry it around.

  85. kurkosdr says:

    According to PC World, it will still be optional, however, with a traditional Unity 7 build with X.org available alongside the newly converged Unity 8 with the new Mir display server. The new tablet, and Unity 8, will feature Ubuntu Touch’s Scopes interface, which presents frequently used content and services as an alternative to traditional apps.

    Author lost me in the bolded text. Trying to figure out what he means, it looks like the whole “rootless X server” which would happily run your X.org apps (aka most Linux apps out there) under Mir is still a work in progress.

    It’s amazing how FOSSies didn’t learn from the PulseAudio debacle and assume that building a wrapper for the old APIs would be easy peasy.

    Now, speaking about the tablet itself, it will be yet another Jolla Phone: It will have a wave of some GNU/Linux enthusiasts buying it the first two months, and then silence. Not a sustainable market, right?

    Also Pog, may I ask an honest question? Assuming you just unboxed this Ubuntu Tablet, what are the first 10 apps you would install on it? Or even the first 5?

    As an additional honest question, what would you recommend to users who want Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Viber, Instagram and Skype equivalents on their Ubuntu Tablet? … Only GNU/Linux people “who don’t care about these” will buy it. A small niche that will be exhausted after two months of moderate dales. Just like it happened with the Jolla phone.

    There was no revolution in mobile devices. We are just under new management (Google). Deal with it and stop pretending ARM will ever mean anything else than Android to the 99.9% of users

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