Want Freedom To Choose Your Hardware? Choose GNU/Linux.

“Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon, Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge” silicon.”
 
See Windows 10 Embracing Silicon Innovation
So much for “fragmentation” and other “problems” of */Linux and FLOSS. One of the richest corporations on the planet is giving up keeping its software conversant with new hardware. Meanwhile, anyone moving to new hardware can just build a new kernel (or, for Debian, use make deb-pkg and dpkg -i ) and carry on. Life is sweet with software freedom. I recommend Debian GNU/Linux so you don’t have to change your entire software stack just because you buy new PCs or servers.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.
This entry was posted in technology and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

139 Responses to Want Freedom To Choose Your Hardware? Choose GNU/Linux.

  1. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy no point being a spammer ust because you were completely incorrect.

    http://www.wernerroth.de/en/staroffice/faq/faq.html

    5.0 StarOffice before OpenOffice even releases has mail merge. Horrible process of mail merge but mail merge just the same.

    Since you have told me to go learn about writeln go your self and learn what functionality Officesuite got and when before you post another stupid comment Deaf Spy.

  2. Deaf Spy says:

    Fifi, are you not the illiterate, fraudulent, lying and intellectually-challenged fellow who takes pride of posting irrelevant links?

    Be off, little one, and never return until you learn about writeln().

  3. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy reality mail merge was one of the early things fix at Munich. Problem is it was not fixed upstream but by addon application.

    http://www.wollmux.net/wiki/Main_Page

    Yes openoffice with wollmux doing mail merges was not major issue since it now works and that is over 10 years ago.

    Mail merge gets fixed mainline Libreoffice as of 5.1.

    So your claim Munich does not have mail-merge that works is baseless Deaf Spy.

    Other early adopters have also uses wollmux to cover over some of OpenOffice and Libreoffice worse issues. Lot of the recent fixes in Libreoffice is making using wollmux less and less required.

    To be correct Munich funded the 5.1 fix http://vmiklos.hu/blog/mail-merge-embedding.html

    Please note the 5.1 fix is mostly not that Libreoffice mail merge did not work. It was more it was creating what appeared to be a pointless but critical .odb file that users were deleting so breaking the mail merge process. So problem exists between keyboard and chair so we fixed the software to reduce the chances of problem exists between keyboard and chair.

    Mail merge functionality was added when Libreoffice did not exist heck before even OpenOffice existed. So someone saying hey mail merge does not work more does not know what they are talking about. Someone claiming that Libreoffice and OpenOffice mail merge suffered too much from problem exists between keyboard and chair because it process was not clean enough has some grounds. But as of 5.1 that disappears as well.

  4. Deaf Spy says:

    I suggested they use thin clients for almost everything and they did not take my advice.

    They seem to go in the right direction but use the slowest/most painful way of getting places. It’s their way.

    Well, then, if I were you, I would not advocate Munich. Not only they still don’t have working mail-merge. They even don’t use thin clients.

    Btw, thin clients would not have resolved the broken mail-merge, Robert. I hope you are aware of that.

  5. Deaf Spy wrote, “Contact Munich, offer consultancy and technical advise, suggest formal procedures how to get mail-merge working. Or are you just a hypocrite?”

    Nope. I’m retired. I suggested they use thin clients for almost everything and they did not take my advice. Why would they take my advice to use the latest and greatest stable version of LibreOffice? They seem to go in the right direction but use the slowest/most painful way of getting places. It’s their way.

  6. Deaf Spy says:

    Who, in their right mind is still using 4.1.2?

    You are totally correct, Robert! Munich are definitely not in their right mind.

    Still, fact is a fact. Munich are using 4.1.2. Now, as a true evangelist of Freedom and FLOSS, you are simply obliged to help them. Contact Munich, offer consultancy and technical advise, suggest formal procedures how to get mail-merge working. Or are you just a hypocrite?

  7. wizard emeritus says:

    One does not just update an application used in a large enterprise willy nilly. there is testing to be done,not to mention a “fit gap analysis” of to determine the differences between two versions. ( even going from,say, 4.1.x to 4.4.x could introduce a major change that could be worse than the problem that going to a new version would “fix”)

    And if it turns out that Munich’s “experts” customized libreoffice 4.1.x, those customizations have to assessed for relevance and the be ported to the new version if they are still relevant.

    Why do yu think that they are backporting patches (presumably) from newer versions to their current working version?

  8. Deaf Spy requothed, “It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2 and deal with issues around KDE 4 being “broken” and “mail merge being broken and slow”, according to Glogowski.”

    Who, in their right mind is still using 4.1.2? They’re about to release 5.1 and 4.4.7 is recommended for production.

  9. Deaf Spy says:

    Sorry for the triple post, but I do it for a reason, here is a third aspect of the bug.

    “Mail merge being broken and slow” translates into decreased user productivity. In turn, this translates into increased production costs. Which at the end of the day means LO is not free. It came with the price of:
    1. Increased, not transparent support costs, see that poor guy I quoted.
    2. Increased costs due to lower productivity.

    Nothing “free” here, and people know it. That is why MS Office is king, and Office 365 keeps growing.

    If something is really free, here is what happens:

  10. Deaf Spy says:

    This is normal behaviour of complex software, not broken software.

    Weird, you don’t seem to be so benevolent when it comes to any proprietary complex software. Or, perhaps you say that a contemporary desktop OS is not “complex”, compared to an inferior Office suite? Will you dare say that aloud, Robert? 🙂

  11. Deaf Spy says:

    I don’t need to look at bug lists, Robert, I prefer to listen to the people on the front line of the battlefield. Again, as you seem to have forgotten:

    “It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2 and deal with issues around KDE 4 being “broken” and “mail merge being broken and slow”, according to Glogowski.” (emphasis mine).

  12. Deaf Spy wrote, “Pity LibreOffice doesn’t support Munich.”

    If you’d bother to check the bug-lists, you’d find there are very few bugs filed against mail-merge. Out of 10 bugs of record a couple are wishlist stuff and several were not pursued by the filer or could not be confirmed. The main ones remaining are about translation of column headings between English and German, something that probably affects Munich occasionally. This is normal behaviour of complex software, not broken software. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the product.

  13. Deaf Spy wrote, “according to Munich’s support themselves.”

    No, developers don’t support IT. Others do that. The dev in question stated mail-merge was broken. He didn’t say who broke it. Since mail-merge works for everyone else, I assume he was tweaking it and got it into a broken state. That’s a snapshot, not a dynasty of brokenness.

  14. dougman says:

    Pity Microsoft didn’t support Munich, they got booted out!

    HAHAHAHAHAH.

  15. Deaf Spy says:

    Of course, Munich supports LibreOffice. Munich is a member of the club, the inner circle…

    Pity LibreOffice doesn’t support Munich.

  16. Deaf Spy says:

    It works for others including Munich

    No Robert, it doesn’t, according to Munich’s support themselves.

    You may post as many videos as you like, it doesn’t matter. Unless you call Munich and offer assistance, your opinion doesn’t count.

  17. dougman says:

    Re: people are prepared to pay for the other 20%.

    Hah, nooo…thats not how it works. M$ has 60-day trial software installed people use that then get stuck and are forced to pay.

    No one pays exclusively for just 20%… *rolls-eyes*

  18. DrLoser says:

    Of course, Munich supports LibreOffice.

    But not the mail merge bit. Which apparently does not work.

    Do try to keep up with us youngsters, Robert.

  19. DrLoser says:

    I can see in the VERY near future, more and more cities using – contributing back to LibreOffice. After sometime, M$ Office will be a thing of the past and have to be given away for free to compete.

    In reality, no one just NEEDS M$ Office when LibreOffice offers 80% of the functionality and for zero dollar outlay.

    The only slight problem with this uninformed observation, Dougie, is that people are prepared to pay for the other 20%.

    Bit of a shame, that.

  20. dougman says:

    I can see in the VERY near future, more and more cities using – contributing back to LibreOffice. After sometime, M$ Office will be a thing of the past and have to be given away for free to compete.

    In reality, no one just NEEDS M$ Office when LibreOffice offers 80% of the functionality and for zero dollar outlay.

  21. DrLoser wrote, of LibreOffice at Munich, “As with any other tool that they use every day, you support it. Munich does not.”

    Of course, Munich supports LibreOffice. Munich is a member of the club, the inner circle

  22. dougman says:

    Re: You don’t get to order your users around if you are a sysadmin and tell them not to use mail-merge.

    LOL…is this the same type of sysadmin that cannot tell users NOT to use Linux, or is this some figment of your imagination?

  23. DrLoser says:

    But let’s just assume, for the purposes of argument, that mail-merge is a defunct methodology.

    You don’t get to order your users around if you are a programmer and tell them not to use mail-merge. As with any other tool that they use every day, you support it. Munich does not.

    You don’t get to order your users around if you are a sysadmin and tell them not to use mail-merge. As with any other tool that they use every day, you support it. Munich does not.

    You don’t get to order your users around if you are Dougie … wait a mo, Dougie is on Sabbatical. People on Sabbatical do not have opinions that count.

    It is not a difficult thing to support mail merge.

    Why is it so hard for the neckbeards in Munich to do so?

    Never mind, they’ve contributed some 500 patches to LibreOffice. Much more important than supporting their users.

  24. DrLoser says:

    Seriously, who the hell uses mail-merge these days? You act like people still send letters in the mail anymore for business.

    I don’t have exact figures for you, Dog-Brain, and I am no Senator McCarthey, so I’m not about to claim that mail-merge is ubiquitous. But I’m pretty certain that it is a widespread business tool, particularly in things like telephone marketing. In fact, I’ve worked with people just up the road here in Kings Norton that rely on it as an essential part of their workflow. (Read, money. You know. The thing that you don’t earn whilst on Sabbatical.)

    Think of it as a database join. You have the contact details one the one hand, and the information package on the other hand. If you can think of a better way of combining the two into a series of email updates, I would be absolutely fascinated to hear it. I may even be able to earn you commission by selling this novel concept to my mates up the road.

    And given that practically any municipal organisation I can think of is at least five years behind the times (allowing for the exception of Munich, who have for reasons of Micawberish frugality decided to remain twenty or more years behind the times), I can easily see mail merge as a useful tool for directing useful information to citizens.

    You, of course, know better. And who needs evidence?

  25. dougman wrote, “Seriously, who the hell uses mail-merge these days? You act like people still send letters in the mail anymore for business.”

    I worked in many schools that should have used mail-merge. In one I set it up and generating report cards changed from days to minutes. Every field in the card could be auto-generated if done right. All I had to do was sign the things. Other teachers worked for days passing around stacks of documents filling them in as well. Mail-merge worked for us. It works for others including Munich. Besides mailings, this can be used for payroll, memos, e-mail, invoices, anything involving various data needed to be inserted into documents.

  26. dougman says:

    Mail-merge? is that the best you can come up with on reasons not to use LibreOffice?

    LMAO…

    Seriously, who the hell uses mail-merge these days? You act like people still send letters in the mail anymore for business. If anything, businesses just export their customer list and send it out to a mailing house using posts cards.

  27. Deaf Spy says:

    At the end of the day, mail-merge in Munich is broken.

    LibreOffice doesn’t work for Munich.

  28. DrLoser says:

    I see that both Dog-Brain and Luvr are still intent on deliberately missing the point of my argument.

    For someone that “I have better things to do”, you sure waste a lot of your precious time spewing your bullshit here.

    My contention is that I have better things to do than to submit bug-fixes to LibreOffice. This is not a hard contention to accept. Practically anything fits into this category: winnowing my nostril hair, contemplating the second moment of area as it applies to the perfect column, and yes, even replying to the latest vacuity by Dog-Brain.

    (Those three possible alternatives were not placed in any particular order.)

    I haven’t seen a convincing objection to my position on this.

    Nor have I seen any objection to my further contention that, were I to pick part of FLOSS as a sink-hole of my time and expertise, it would be something that people are actually forced to use, such as OpenSSL. Why? Two reasons. I regard it as a more useful endeavour — what with not being 100% useless, according to my value system — and also I have spent thirty years round networks and data comms and related stuff.

    I haven’t done so yet. Which places me in precisely the same bucket as Dougie … and rather a lot of other “contributors” to FLOSS whose main “contribution” is to post a periodic whine on this site.

    Unlike Dougie, however, I have the mental tools to do so. And unlike Dougie, I may yet do so.

  29. dougman says:

    Re: Which, since those questions or comments are only directed at the owner of this blog, is really none of your concern. Remember, you only answer questions that are asked – you were not asked.

    Spoken like a true pompous ass. Speaking of which, Imperial Wizard Emeritus are you part of the KKk? You certainly are in no way a tenured professor of anything.

  30. dougman wrote, “Windows 10 is VERY buggy.”

    Could have something to do with the latest SEC-filing. Out of $23.9billion in revenue, they’re only paying programmers and engineers $2.9billion. The only folks they pay less are the tax-men and secretaries. As usual, the salesmen are first to the trough. My analysis is that they’ve made the OS so complex they need extra developers to try to apply more paint. With such a bill, they could produce a brand-new state of the art OS annually, but they can’t do it because of all the unnecessary complexity the salesmen have embedded.

  31. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “For someone that “I have better things to do”, you sure waste a lot of your precious time spewing your bullshit here.”

    Which, since those questions or comments are only directed at the owner of this blog, is really none of your concern.

    Remember, you only answer questions that are asked – you were not asked.

  32. luvr says:

    DrLoser said, “Therefore, I would be quite happy if it were to disappear tomorrow. Equally, I would be quite happy were it not to do so.”

    Good—That’s settled, then.

    DrLoser also said, “The argument here is whether I should contribute patches to LibreOffice. My response is, and I think this is a perfectly respectable response — I have better things to do.”

    Good—That’s also settled, then.

    It seems to me, though, that you consider wasting your time here, spewing your abrasive comments, one of your primary “better things to do”. While I concede that it may well be more rewarding than getting involved with LibreOffice, I do hope that you can think of some other, really “better things to do” every once in a while. Your life would be awfully pathetic otherwise—though I cannot really say that I particularly care.

  33. dougman says:

    For someone that “I have better things to do”, you sure waste a lot of your precious time spewing your bullshit here.

    Eh.

  34. DrLoser says:

    Why? As far as I can tell, you have zero interest in LibreOffice.

    Which I do not.

    Therefore, I would be quite happy if it were to disappear tomorrow. Equally, I would be quite happy were it not to do so.

    Do try to keep up.

    The argument here is whether I should contribute patches to LibreOffice. My response is, and I think this is a perfectly respectable response — I have better things to do.

    You’re not really able to follow a trivially simple argument, are you, Luvr?

    😉

  35. dougman says:

    Dr. Tosser does bring up a interesting comment. I too, would be quite happy, if M$ were to disappear tomorrow. I seriously doubt, no one would be saddened over the loss of the worst technological monopolies to exist.

  36. luvr says:

    DrLoser wrote, about LibreOffice, “I would be quite happy if it were to disappear tomorrow.”

    Why? As far as I can tell, you have zero interest in LibreOffice. Why, then, would it make any difference to you whether it disappears or not? It’s not like it should bother you personally in any way, is it? It’s not even like the world would, in any way, be a better place if it disappeared, is it?

  37. dougman says:

    And what other sub-optimal buggy behavior is lurking inside Windows these days?

    Lets see, ah yes, Windows 10 is VERY buggy.

    http://betanews.com/2015/09/15/windows-10-is-shaping-up-to-be-the-most-unstable-release-since-millennium-edition-me/

    Windows 10 Mobile phone is buggy as well with the platform dying off.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2016/01/30/microsoft-windows-phone-lumia-sales-crash/#624405991d3f

    On top of that, newer hardware won’t be compatible with older versions of Windows. Talk about giving your customers the finger.

    http://www.computerworld.com/article/3023533/microsoft-windows/microsoft-support-windows-10-new-hardware-itbwcw.html

  38. DrLoser says:

    Generally speaking, OpenSSL reuses prime numbers when using the Diffie-Hellman protocol … however, the option that reuses prime numbers is not on by default.

    Well, it’s one thing or the other, really, isn’t it, Dougie? Either the reuse of prime numbers is “general,” or it isn’t. Do try to think for yourself, rather than quoting something from my cite which I have obviously read.

    And once again you miss the point. Why is this even an option?

    And what other sub-optimal buggy behaviour is lurking inside OpenSSL, defaulted away or not?

    All I’m saying here is that OpenSSL is
    * Widely used
    * Buggy
    * An appropriate subject for patches and fixes.

    That would make it a far more appealing target for me to invest my professional time in, as compared to the sprawling worthless mess that is LibreOffice.

  39. “This issue affects OpenSSL version 1.0.2.
     
    OpenSSL 1.0.2 users should upgrade to 1.0.2f
     
    OpenSSL 1.0.1 is not affected by this CVE because it does not support X9.42 based parameters. It is possible to generate parameters using non “safe” primes, but this option has always been documented as requiring single use and is not the default or believed to be common. However, as a precaution, the SSL_OP_SINGLE_DH_USE change has also been backported to 1.0.1r.”

    Hmmm… I’m using 1.0.1k. Thank Goodness for Debian. One less thing about which to worry.

  40. dougman says:

    Dr Tosser blowing smoke again about OpenSSL.

    Generally speaking, OpenSSL reuses prime numbers when using the Diffie-Hellman protocol, which could allow an attacker to possibly crack the encryption.

    There are some mitigating factors that an attacker would have to complete for multiple handshakes with the computer he or she is trying to compromise.

    However, the option that reuses prime numbers is not on by default, and most applications likely are not at risk if that option has not been changed, according to the advisory.

    https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv/20160128.txt

  41. dougman says:

    Imagine, every government doing this, why OpenSSL would be unstoppable!

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/04/dutch_government_says_no_to_backdoors/

  42. DrLoser says:

    Oh, and chaps? OpenSSL just failed again. Twice.

    I wouldn’t even have noticed, but I was trying to pick an Open Sores project that I’d be happy to contribute to. I could have picked iconv, or if I think a little one of a dozen more. It just so happened that the first one that sprang to mind was OpenSSL.

    And I googled it.

    And found this.

  43. DrLoser says:

    Glogowski contributed 96 patches to LibreOffice, Dr. Tosser contributed zero patches. It’s easy being anonymous talking trash behind a keyboard, isn’t it?

    What does the first sentence have to do with the second, Dog-Brain? And how many patches have you contributed?

    Naturally, you fail to understand the point. I don’t care if this idle layabout takes time off from his sinecure in the Munich Neckbeard department and contributes a million patches. You do not measure patches by quantity, but by quality. I conceded that the patches in question might be of the very highest quality — but without an external audit, it’s impossible to know.

    And I did, in fact, contribute a rather more useful patch to GEBC than Robert did. His was a mere change to the size of the font, which is about as wretchedly quality-free as it is possible to get. Mine, as I recall, fixed all the crashes he was complaining about.

    Rather more useful, that.

    And why should I submit patches to LibreOffice? I don’t use it. I have no intention of using it. I would be quite happy if it were to disappear tomorrow.

    Now, something like OpenSSL … I can see myself submitting a patch to that. Why? Because OpenSSL is useful.

    (And also apparently chock-full of security holes.)

  44. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “According to you, nothing happened. Obviously *something* happened, or you would not be all butt hurt about it.”

    While nothing happened to us, it clearly happened to Robert Pogson running firefox on Debian Linux.

    Which was to me quite funny considering…

    At any rate your intent in putting the URL into the text and behind your name for several posts after was clear, and your continued response just noise.

    Let see what the owner of this blog thinks.

    What say you Robert Pogson?

    your intent was very clearMore noise Dougie

  45. dougman says:

    Re: clear act of vandalism

    According to you, nothing happened. Obviously *something* happened, or you would not be all butt hurt about it.

  46. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Wise words my dear Wizard, wise words indeed. Let’s reword that, shall we?”

    why?

    This has nothing to do with what a particular ISV thinks Dougie, nor does it have to do with what you think. It has everything to do with the reality of what consumers like myself think.

    Now you are free to dismiss this as irrelevant.

    And we are free to dismiss your commentary (nobody asked you anything initially remember – you just offered an unsolicited opinion) as just so much background noise in someone else’s conversation.

    Speaking of which, what do you intend to do with the clear act of vandalism that dougman attempted, Robert Pogson?

  47. dougman says:

    Re: someday you will figure out that one does not have to do things the way that you think, or use technology theway that you expect.

    Wise words my dear Wizard, wise words indeed. Let’s reword that, shall we?

    Someday, perhaps never, Microsoft you will figure out that one does not have to do things the way that they think, or use technology the way that they expect as one has Linux.

  48. wizard emeritus says:

    isn’t it terrible when the people you are attempting to get over on actually know more than you do. just like the time when one of your deals got scotched by the local IT department, eh.

    someday you will figure out that one does not have to do things the way that you think, or use technology theway that you expect.

  49. dougman says:

    Liar, just like you’re not from Bulgaria either.

  50. Deaf Spy says:

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha, Dougie! No, I don’t use Chrome on anything, I never did, actually. Not on 7, not on 8, not on 8.1., not on 10. Sorry, Dougie.

    You are surrounded by such a great intellectual darkness, Doggie, that even Fifi shines when put next to you.

  51. dougman says:

    Crime? Please quote the statute on that; and since when do YOU used Edge, you use Chrome on Windows.

  52. Deaf Spy says:

    Robert, indeed, why do you tolerate Dougie’s wretched attempts to put scam and malevolent links on your site?

    Not that he succeeded. Windows 10 is obviously well protected against such attacks. Edge blocked whatever thing Doguie attempted to push through.

    Still, what he did is basically a crime. Do you, Robert, tolerate that?

  53. Deaf Spy says:

    It’s the right way to do IT

    You mean, without good support for new hardware and broken mail-merge? Come on, Robert, why don’t you help Munich in their Right Way To Do IT?

  54. dougman says:

    Dr. Tosser sayeth, “This man is an idiot.”

    Glogowski contributed 96 patches to LibreOffice, Dr. Tosser contributed zero patches. It’s easy being anonymous talking trash behind a keyboard, isn’t it?

    We don’t see Dr. Tosser managing 18K workstations, hell I am willing to bet he doesn’t even manage one.

  55. DrLoser says:

    A small contribution to the inevitable MTBF discussion that shall no doubt ensue.

    I’ve had about, let’s see, six different jobs in the last ten years. Each job has involved a PC supplied by my employer. One employer (Microsoft) supplied two PCs — a top-end desktop/server and a two year old Dell laptop.

    That makes for a fair average environment, I think. Let us attempt to understand the following gibberish:

    “We have 18,000 PCs, so you can imagine how much hardware breaks per day”, says Glogowski. “That is why we always stock half a year’s worth of hardware.”

    I can indeed imagine it. In fact, I am imagining it now.

    Ignoring “loaners” for short-term problems, I imagine the number of PCs on any particular day — given a 5 year amortization period — is 18000/5/365.

    Which is, roughly, ten.

    This man is an idiot.

  56. DrLoser says:

    Perhaps it is time to be conciliatory here. Perhaps the City of Munich is in good hands. Perhaps their IT department has the best interests of the City of Munich at heart, and is not swayed by other thoughts, such as, say, job security. Let’s revisit that link.

    The development cycle is long, says Jan-Marek Glogowski, one of the members of the city’s Linux Client development team. One reason is the wide range of computer hardware that is supported. “Whatever computer hardware was built in the last twenty years, Munich is running it and the central IT department has to support it.” And the city keeps purchasing new PC hardware. “We have 18,000 PCs, so you can imagine how much hardware breaks per day”, says Glogowski. “That is why we always stock half a year’s worth of hardware.”

    Wow.

    This is going to be a tough sell to normal people. But, yes, let’s stay with being conciliatory. It is just about possible, I think, to understand the febrile cheapskate longing of, say, Mr Pogson to stick with twenty year old hardware. After all, it’s his choice. It’s his business. And he is the man to fix it up, to solder where soldering is required, to figure out how to download the latest version of 1996 vintage drivers, to cobble this completely pointless crap together.

    But it’s not the business of an IT department that supports a City Government.

    It. Is. NOT.

    I’ll allow for a very small number of special requirements. (When I worked at Visa, I had to support some rancid async protocol from back in 1970 or so. For four clients, world-wide.) But generally, if you are an IT department supporting a corporate/government client, you can reasonably expect anything older than 5 years to be amortized out of existence.

    Why? Because the support costs are astronomical.

    And this moron boasts about them?

    Employing a single moron for a year will cost Munich about $60,000 minimum. That’s an awful lot of upgraded hardware right there.

  57. DrLoser says:

    The city of Munich is a major contributor to free and open source projects, sending bugfixes to upstream developers, making available software solutions and sharing best practices and technical information.

    And absolutely nobody at all cares, Dog-Brain.

    There are “bug fixes” and then there are “bug fixes.” I remember a Mr Pogson, for example, submitting a “bug fix” to GEBC which involved increasing the default font width for column titling in a way that helped said Mr Pogson stare at the screen without need of a magnifying glass but unfortunately made the entire table incomprehensible.

    Lacking an independent audit of the quality of these 500+ bug fixes, we literally have no information as to their worth. I will admit: they might turn LibreOffice into a World Beating Product.

    But then again, they most probably will not.

    And as for “sharing best practices and technical information” — that is nothing more than snake oil.

    Yes, Snake Oil. A business from which, Dog-Brain, you have for reasons of your own taken a long-term “sabbatical.”

  58. DrLoser says:

    What was that about best intentions Dog-Brain?

    To be fair, Wiz, Dougie doesn’t actually use the Linux desktop. Obviously. If he did, he would notice these slight blemishes and report them faithfully.

    I’m not exactly sure what Dougie’s “Sabbatical” relationship with the Linux desktop is, these days. What with being an unemployed ignorant unqualified layabout, I imagine his opportunities to foist broken crap on the gullible seniors of Metro DC are increasingly limited.

    Even his standard tactic of chucking out three or four totally irrelevant links per post seems to have failed him.

    He’s a resourceful little chap, though. I’m sure he’ll come up with something, however spurious that something might be.

    Mazel Tov, Dougie!

  59. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Dog-Brain Said:

    “I’m sorry, did your computer problem break your concentration? M$ didn’t mean to do that honestly. Please, continue, you were saying something about best intentions. Eh?”

    While Robert Pogson found…

    “[rp – I don’t know what the Hell that URI was but it crushed FireFox on GNU/Linux. Had to kill it from CLI. It turns out it’s a very large loop of JavaScript.]”

    It is worth noting that when I this URL on windows 10, my security software stopped it cold. Yet apparently Firefox on Debian linux apparently hung up and needed to be killed.

    What was that about best intentions Dog-Brain?

  60. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “It’s the right way to do IT.”

    THe right way to do it is the one that meets the deliverables of the IT user. Commercial closed source has always done a better job of meeting specific needs as well as creating polished and sophisticated software.

    It is important to remember Robert Pogson, that Walmarts software started as commercial closed source and had the benefit of all the resources that can be focused on software that can make a profit.

    And BTW. You have apparently noticed that the poster who is named dougman, has apparently deliberately posted URL’s that were designed to cause problems for anyone who clicked on them both in an email addressed to DeafSpy and behind his name. It is good that you have cleaned up your blog, but Are you going to tolerate this kind of vandalism on your blog without consequence for the poster.

  61. dougman wrote, “In August, Munich IT staff members shared the city’s accomplishments with the community of Debian developers, one of the main free software distributions.
     
    Imagine if every city, in every nation did this, M$ could never compete nor keep up!”

    M$ hasn’t been able to keep up for a decade or more. They have way more salesmen/goons than developers. The world can and does make its own software and shares it freely. e.g. M$ is actually using GNU/Linux in operations. Walmart is doing things the FLOSS way. It’s the right way to do IT.

  62. dougman says:

    Re: …side of the barricade??

    I seem to recall that M$ Win-Dohs was the OS that leaves it’s users barricaded into its grips. M$ does this on purpose to retain its customer base, never cooperating with competitors and making sharing of IT much more difficult than it should be.

    Funny how the DOJ and EU had to step in to force M$’s hand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation

  63. dougman says:

    The city of Munich is a major contributor to free and open source projects, sending bugfixes to upstream developers, making available software solutions and sharing best practices and technical information. In August, Munich IT staff members shared the city’s accomplishments with the community of Debian developers, one of the main free software distributions.

    Imagine if every city, in every nation did this, M$ could never compete nor keep up!

    https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/munich-now-major-contributor-open-source

  64. Deaf Spy says:

    Robert, how does it feel to be on the same side of the barricade with something like Dougie? Must be quite hard to endure such a thing stay next to you.

    Btw, did you write Munich?

  65. dougman says:

    Re: And we are not obligated to listen to you vandal.

    Oh?….what did you hear me say?

  66. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “People can ask me questions all day long on here. I am not obliged to answer any of them; that is what Google is for, unless you do not know how to use Google.”

    And we are not obligated to listen to you vandal.

  67. dougman says:

    DrTosser, how many adjectives can you squeeze in one sentence?

  68. dougman says:

    Hello…..Mr. Wizard, perhaps you should hang out with Blackwolf the Dragonmaster

    People can ask me questions all day long on here. I am not obliged to answer any of them; that is what Google is for, unless you do not know how to use Google.

  69. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “What a wretched pusillanimous piece of unemployed worthless poisonous wreckage Dog-Brain must be.”

    More to the point, he still has no answer to the question that was supposed, because in the end, he is nothing but background noise in other peoples conversations.

  70. DrLoser says:

    Oh, As far as not behind a nym is concerned, since when does replacing the URL behind dougman with the same poisoned URL constitute not hiding. You couldn’t possibly be stupid enough to think that this is acceptable behavior.

    I suspect you overestimate the anti-Semitic little twit. Hashtag #CrashSafari, for whatever reason Dog-Brain feels like justifying.

    What a wretched pusillanimous piece of unemployed worthless poisonous wreckage Dog-Brain must be.

  71. DrLoser says:

    How’s the good fight with systemd going, by the way, Bob?

    Have we given in to the future, yet?

  72. DrLoser says:

    He’s throwing away one of the chief advantages of FLOSS that you don’t have to do everything yourself. I don’t have to rewrite a lot of FLOSS to update my software.

    And to repeat this Very Important Point, Bob.

    You don’t actually write or update or in particular examine a single thing about your “software,” do you?

    Even if you wanted to do so — which would require effort and time and expenditure — you can’t, can you?

    Which pretty much makes every single claim you have ever made about your devotion to the Four Freedoms empty, insincere, and utterly pointless, doesn’t it?

    Cite a single example that might lead me to believe otherwise, please, you wretched cheapskate old fraud.

  73. DrLoser says:

    Re: I presume that you know that it is not kosher

    I am not Jewish.

    Interesting that this is the first retort that springs to your sullen emaciated little mind, Dog-Brain.

    I presume you have no problem with the concept of “being Jewish?”

    Now then. Shall we return to the interesting discussion of IBM and DeHoMag and so on?

  74. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I’m sorry, did your computer problem break your concentration? M$ didn’t mean to do that honestly. Please, continue, you were saying something about best intentions. Eh?”

    What Computer problem Dougie? Was that the one that you attempted to cause?

    All because you didn’t have an answer to DeafSpys passing on of the Reports of the real problems supporting your beloved FOSS in Munich.

    What about that answer, dougie, eh?

  75. dougman says:

    re: vandalize others computers..

    I’m sorry, did your computer problem break your concentration? M$ didn’t mean to do that honestly. Please, continue, you were saying something about best intentions. Eh?

  76. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “You never answered the question.”

    Nor will I answer a question from someone who is attempting to deliberately vandalize others computers. But than you for proving that you are an adolescent jerk who has to resort to this kind of crap when he can’t answer a point by insulting has way around their posts.

    Oh, As far as not behind a nym is concerned, since when does replacing the URL behind dougman with the same poisoned URL constitute not hiding. You couldn’t possibly be stupid enough to think that this is acceptable behavior.

  77. dougman says:

    You never answered the question.

    “if you are so big on Microsoft, why are you using Firefox on Windows? Why not Explorer or Edge?”

    Since when is using google analytics url poisoning?

  78. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I am not Jewish.”

    You are not apparently not very smart either. Is this an admission of guilt?

  79. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “*Rolls-eyes*…if you are so big on Microsoft, why are you using Firefox on Windows? Why not Explorer or Edge?

    Hypocrite.”

    Adolescent comeback as usual, and missing the point to boot. I use windows 10 because it is what I have determined to be the most cost effective platform to run the software that I want to run.

    More to the point, I cannot believe you would be so stupid as to deliberately post a poisoned URL.

    Am I wrong?

  80. dougman says:

    Re: I presume that you know that it is not kosher

    I am not Jewish.

  81. dougman says:

    Re: Not to worry though, my windows 10 based software protection caught it – no problems here.

    *Rolls-eyes*…if you are so big on Microsoft, why are you using Firefox on Windows? Why not Explorer or Edge?

    Hypocrite.

  82. dougman says:

    Re: But keep it up, you are just as effective is the owner of this blog when you insult your audience.

    LOL…audience? I’m just a commenter that chooses not to hide anonymously behind a pseudonym, unlike you and others that come here spewing garbage.

    People can ask me questions all day long on here. I am not obliged to answer any of them; that is what Google is for.

  83. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Oh Dougie.

    I presume that you know that it is not kosher to pass on URL’s (“windows 10 is a malware magnet”) that seem to do nasty things.

    Not to worry though, my windows 10 based software protection caught it – no problems here.

  84. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Thats right, you cannot refute the message, so you attack the messenger. Wonderful logic you have there. Gee willikers!”

    Missing the point Dougie. ” (I won’t flatter them by calling them “citizens”)” isn’t exactly a great way to address your audience. It is in most cases a guaranteed turnoff because it not so implicitly states that we are stupid for not doing things your way.

    But keep it up, you are just as effective is the owner of this blog when you insult your audience.

    And you still haven’t responded to DeafSpy report noting the report from Munich that here were issue with the particular version of LibreOffice that they have to support. IS the gentleman lying, or is it that you can’t deal with an example of one of the drawbacks of supporting FOSS in a large enterprise.

    eh.

  85. dougman says:

    Posting factual links is now bullshit? HAH!

    Thats right, you cannot refute the message, so you attack the messenger. Wonderful logic you have there. Gee willikers!

  86. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Silicon Valley & Redmond Washington have been very successful in convincing U.S. “residents” (I won’t flatter them by calling them “citizens”) that private ownership/property is a thing of the past.”

    And of course having been subjected to this bit of arrogant BS, we are definitely going to take anything you say seriously. The truth of the matter is that Dougie has had near-zero luck convincing anyone that his way is the true way, and now results to insulting those who refuse to listen to his perls of wisdom, or who have the temerity to tell him that his recommendations don’t meet their needs.

    Keep up the good work – here’s hoping that the cash out for your former business lasts you a long time.

  87. dougman says:

    Repeat after me.

    “Аз съм трол”

  88. DeafSpy says:

    Are you aware you are totally irrelevant?

  89. dougman says:

    Are you aware you are starting to repeat yourself?

  90. Deaf Spy says:

    Focus, Doggie:

    And how does it all help Minuch get mail-merge working? Or Limux work on new hardware?

  91. Deaf Spy wrote, “the fact that Minuch still can’t get mail-merge working”.

    Munich uses mail-merge regularly. In what way is it not working for them?

  92. dougman says:

    Bulgaria….hmmm. Right in your backyard.

    The government of Bulgaria has proposed to start a repository for open source software…..wants to make it mandatory to use the web based code revision and code management system for all future government software development projects.

    https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/bulgaria-start-open-source-repository

  93. Deaf Spy says:

    And how does it all help Minuch get mail-merge working? Or Limux work on new hardware?

  94. dougman says:

    Silicon Valley & Redmond Washington have been very successful in convincing U.S. “residents” (I won’t flatter them by calling them “citizens”) that private ownership/property is a thing of the past.

    Reading any EULA (End User’s License Agreement) will reveal the sad truth. When you pay cash money for expensive software and even many machine tools, you have absolutely no rights of ownership, merely a “license” to use the product until the manufacturer decides you can no longer do so.
    a href=”http://… nofollow Windows 10 is a Malware Magnet OS

    [rp – I don’t know what the Hell that URI was but it crushed FireFox on GNU/Linux. Had to kill it from CLI. It turns out it’s a very large loop of JavaScript.]

  95. Deaf Spy says:

    …and totally irrelevant to the fact that Minuch still can’t get mail-merge working. Or Limux work on new hardware. Or Robert refusing to help Minuch and Freedom.

  96. Deaf Spy says:

    There, you have it. What they need is a system administrator rather than a developer to make things right.

    Robert, why do I get the impression you avoid like plague the opportunity to demonstrate your superior skills? Don’t you want to help Freedom Cause by just giving a hand to Munich? See, these guys desperately need help. If they can’t use new hardware, and their mail-merge is broken, I see gloomy times for Munix after the change of the ruling party there.

  97. DrLoser says:

    At this point I have entirely given up my honest belief that GEBC will ever be available in an enhanced, Web-O-Matic, Pascal coded small smart thingy, Robert.

    An awful, awful, shame. Yet I am young still and shall recover. Forwards!

    He’s throwing away one of the chief advantages of FLOSS that you don’t have to do everything yourself. I don’t have to rewrite a lot of FLOSS to update my software.

    You don’t actually write or update or in particular examine a single thing about your “software,” do you, Pogson?

    You’re precisely the sort of Lazy Slave that you claim the other 99% of the world is.

    The only difference between them and you is that you shave something like 22 per month the cost of being a slave.

  98. DrLoser says:

    I don’t have to rewrite a lot of FLOSS to update my software.

    That’s largely because you are a small unimportant human being in Manitoba, Robert. One who is only responsible for the sysadmin of your family’s systems. Let’s estimate, including guests at parties and what-not, roughly 20 people max.

    You are small and utterly insignificant.

    The guys in charge of municipal IT systems have to scale these things.

  99. Wizard Emeritus says:

    ” He’s throwing away one of the chief advantages of FLOSS that you don’t have to do everything yourself. I don’t have to rewrite a lot of FLOSS to update my software.”

    We are not talking about your piddling needs Robert Pogson. One does not just fix a problem with any software FOSS or commercial by “just” moving to the next version. In fact, rolling out a new version to thousands of users in such a manner that one is not flooded with help desk calls that even 1% “breakage” can generate can take extensive planning, even if I were using a tool like puppet or chef to automate distributions. And if it happens that Munich IT determined a need to customize a particular piece of FOSS, then those customizations have to be ported and tested before any new version is rolled out.

  100. Deaf Spy wrote, “Jan-Marek Glogowski, a developer in the IT team at the City of Munich”.

    There, you have it. What they need is a system administrator rather than a developer to make things right. He’s throwing away one of the chief advantages of FLOSS that you don’t have to do everything yourself. I don’t have to rewrite a lot of FLOSS to update my software.

  101. Deaf Spy says:

    This is Jan-Marek Glogowski, a developer in the IT team at the City of Munich, you are talking about Robert.

    I suggest you give this guy a call and explain him how to upgrade the kernel, mesa, xorg, drivers, and LO. Also don’t forget to tell him how to setup mail-merge. Be sure to do it for free, for the sake of Linux and Freedom. You said it was easy, a simple phone call or e-mail should do the job.

  102. Deaf Spy wrote, “mail merge being broken and slow”.

    Well. 4.1.2 was obsoleted in 2013. They could just install a later release. I’ve used mail-merge for years in schools with OO and LO with no particular problems. You define a data-source and match fields and go. At my last school, I automated my attendance and printed all the report cards with a single click. That was in 2011 or so.

    “After half a year the hardware stack which was delivered with the Ubuntu release or any other Linux release is normally too old for new hardware”.

    I can’t parse that sentence. It seems like an infinite loop. Does anyone know what this guy was trying to communicate? I put new hardware on Beast every year and the old hardware does not complain about the new. Standards. Perhaps he meant “software stack”. As I’ve stated before, they can just replace the kernel which does most of the hardware interface.

  103. Deaf Spy says:

    Loons are lost as usual. Their biggest problem in Munich is actually this:

    “It then became necessary to resolve “shortcomings” in LibreOffice 4.1.2 and deal with issues around KDE 4 being “broken” and “mail merge being broken and slow”, according to Glogowski.”

    Again: mail merge being broken and slow.

    Great, guys. You still can’t fix an important feature that ruins productivity. Go tell me about saving costs again.

  104. Deaf Spy says:

    It’s not that big a deal

    Isn’t it, Robert? I suggest you give Munich a phone call and offer them your invaluable services (for free, of course) in helping them overcome their reportedly most serious issue:
    “Rather than unhappy users, the biggest challenge faced by the IT team at Munich is keeping the Ubuntu-based OS compatible with new hardware….Glogowski labelled hardware support a “major problem” for the council…

    ‘After half a year the hardware stack which was delivered with the Ubuntu release or any other Linux release is normally too old for new hardware,” he said.

    ‘What does that mean? It means you have a backported kernel, a backported DRM, a backported mesa, Xorg, xorg-drivers.'”

    Half an year! Bwaha-ha-ha-ha!

  105. ram says:

    ” Lets take the Australian Tax Office to use particular services you have to use a old insecure version of Cisco system vpn product…”

    That could by why the Australian Tax Office is so unable to collect any tax from big corporates 😉

    “Unlike TOOS where everything is a black art, GNU/Linux is simple and straightforward.”

    I’d say relatively simple and straightforward. Trying to move over an entire city hospital, and possibly later and entire state’s medical system to Linux is still far from “simple and straightforward”, but happening nonetheless.

  106. DrLoser says:

    For your information. Changing out a kernel does not destroy a system…

    You appear to be missing something here, Robert.

    Would you like to guess what it is?

    Clue: some kernels are apples. Some are oranges. And obviously some are Strange Fruit indeed, but let us start with apples and oranges, shall we?

    Do that small thing, Robert, and you will perhaps understand the point that Deaf Spy was attempting to make.

  107. Wizard Emeritus says:

    Make that…

    Those were my choices, and I do not need someone whose choices are determined solely by his cheapness to lecture me on not knowing about choice.

  108. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Unlike TOOS where everything is a black art, GNU/Linux is simple and straightforward. ”

    As someone who as collaborated closely with senior Linux system Administrators as we dealt with the ongoing maintenance of over 400 Enterprise Line of Business Linux Systems, I can assure you that that statement represents a fantasy born of a colossal lack of experience beyond your own hacked together piddling setup.

    “It is certainly less costly than installing a whole new OS just to deal with new hardware.”

    The upgrade of my 5 year old business system from windows 7 to windows 10 cost me zero, all my software was working as before after the upgrade to boot. Then again, that system was not a white box crap system cobbled together from the cheapest parts possible.

    “Wizard Emeritus, not being used to choice, ”

    I am quite used to choice Robert Pogson. I have software and hardware that I choose to use for both my own good reasons and my experience with your so called “alternatives”. I also choose not to want to expose myself to having to tinker with the OS configuration in order to make my system work to my satisfaction. That is what choice is Robert Pogson.

    If I can choose an option that will meet my needs for without a cash expenditure, than I make that choice willingly. But when I was faced with needing a new computer to start my retirement, I chose to buy a system pre-integrated from a vendor that I trusted. I also chose to expend a substantial amount of cash to guarantee my self the ongoing performance that I have determined that I will need over at lease the next 5 years. Those were my choices, and I do not need someone whose choices are determined solely by his cheapness to lecture me on not knowing about cheapness.

  109. Wizard Emeritus, not being used to choice, wrote, “It not a strawman to point out the stupidity of preaching and example of software freedom the ability to potentially destroy a functioning system by changing out its kernel.”

    For your information. Changing out a kernel does not destroy a system. You get to boot into the old kernel if you want. When you build a kernel in Debian, you get to name the kernel so it’s not clobbered by APT. Usually, too, you don’t lose the ability to boot on the old hardware. It’s just the new stuff you might need to tweak a CONFIG. It’s not that big a deal. Some people can even try allyesconfig as a target for make. It takes a lot longer to build but it should be able to work on any hardware. Once booted, you can limit the CONFIG to modules/drivers that are needed. That’s not an exact science because some are only loaded temporarily (USB devices, say) but with error messages they can be quickly identified. Unlike TOOS where everything is a black art, GNU/Linux is simple and straightforward. It is certainly less costly than installing a whole new OS just to deal with new hardware.

  110. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “I did no such thing. It’s you folks who keep raising strawmen. Any individual or organization can build a new Linux kernel. It’s permitted by the licence. It’s easy to do on most hardware.”

    It not a strawman to point out the stupidity of preaching and example of software freedom the ability to potentially destroy a functioning system by changing out its kernel. You need to think a bit more when you give examples.

    ” In the meantime, M$ is cutting out many sycophants who used to make a living “servicing” TOOS. Still, they wax eloquently about how wonderful M$ is. Slaves.”

    Irrelevant polemics. You made a post in which you blithely advocated throwing away a computer users entire software stack as if it was no big deal. I chose to point out to you that it isn’t necessarily that easy. Where does microsoft come in Robert Pogson? It is YOU who bring in their name AND throw in the arrogant slur of characterizing them as “slaves”, a Characterization which coming from a man who is so much a slave to money as to be so cheap that he squeaks if nothing short of hilarious.

  111. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “Equating software freedom with being able to perform a task that even seasoned professionals do not do willy-nilly while addressing computer users who may not even know how to do much more that the “Point, Click, Gawk” that you so arrogantly characterize their computer usage needs as is, to say the least, stupidity on a level that is mind boggling.”

    I did no such thing. It’s you folks who keep raising strawmen. Any individual or organization can build a new Linux kernel. It’s permitted by the licence. It’s easy to do on most hardware. The average user of TOOS will not likely do that nor install a new OS. That’s why M$ is inserting “10” the same way malware gets a free ride. In the meantime, M$ is cutting out many sycophants who used to make a living “servicing” TOOS. Still, they wax eloquently about how wonderful M$ is. Slaves.

  112. Wizard Emeritus says:

    “Folks I’ve met have very little problem using LibreOffice or FireFox. ”

    That is quite irrelevant. You are preaching blind to a community who already knows how to work with and on a windows desktop. You don’t know who you are talking to, you just blithely “recommend” without even being honest about the changes that they WILL have to deal with. But I have to admit your disingenuous glossing over of the challenges that are to be had in a move from windows to linux pales in contrast to your next gem…

    “Meanwhile, anyone moving to new hardware can just build a new kernel (or, for Debian, use make deb-pkg and dpkg -i ) and carry on. Life is sweet with software freedom. ”

    Equating software freedom with being able to perform a task that even seasoned professionals do not do willy-nilly while addressing computer users who may not even know how to do much more that the “Point, Click, Gawk” that you so arrogantly characterize their computer usage needs as is, to say the least, stupidity on a level that is mind boggling.

  113. Deaf Spy says:

    You never fail to disappoint, Doggie. Your imbecile claims reach a point where all arguments against them are meaningless and will only debase your opponent.

    However, since Robert is ready to make friends with the Satan, Putin and Fifi already, I will explain it for his own sake. Don’t read any further Doggie, not for you.

    For the period Doggie speaks, XP was the most recent, i.e. best version of Windows available. Of course people would pick it up. Linux, as usual, was worth crap on desktop.

  114. dougman says:

    Deaf Guy are you blind too?

    Vista wasn’t generally available until Jan 2007 and XP was released to the public Oct 25, 2001. So what Windows OS was made available during the timeframe?

    If you say anything other than XP, then you’re an idiot.

  115. Deaf Spy says:

    EH, people did precisely that with Windows XP for seven years plus.

    Except only very few did so, Dougie. These who purchased low-level new hardware, with a single-core CPU and up to 1gB RAM. Anyone with slightly more potent hardware went to Vista at least for numerous reasons, WDDM being just one of the few.

  116. Ivan wrote, “Pretending that Debian doesn’t have problems with new hardware is a far worse crime, Bob.”

    Pretending you can’t just replace the kernel in Debian GNU/Linux and have all the latest drivers is disingenuous. The list of organizations supporting Linux just keeps getting longer. There are many millions of mobile devices, controllers, PCs and servers out there using Linux. The makers of all kinds of devices do want them to be used with Linux. There are a few exceptions like Western Digital… They are a silver member but still don’t list GNU/Linux for compatibility with external drives.

  117. Wizard Emeritus wrote, “a) get to discard most if not all your existing software stack if you go to debian
    b) get to relearn all of your software.
    c) get to relearn how to work with your new Debian computer as Any expertise you may have acquired is now gone.”

    Don’t confuse “using TOOS” with using computers. Folks I’ve met have very little problem using LibreOffice or FireFox. Hey! About the same number of people use FireFox as IE, and then there’s Chrome. So, why did all those folks switch browsers if IE was easy and M$ provides it for $0 etc. Applications are either easy to use or they’re not. It has nothing to do with the OS. Nowadays, many businesses use web-applications. The only thing that holds them back from GNU/Linux is that they’re still using XP/IE.

  118. oiaohm says:

    Deaf Spy really you want to know why you might need old software. Lets take the Australian Tax Office to use particular services you have to use a old insecure version of Cisco system vpn product that does not run on Windows 10. Heck it does not work correctly on Windows 7, 8 and 8.1. Yep even today you still have to spin up XP mode.

    Never underestimate the hell incompetent government departments can cause you.

    Maybe Microsoft move might fix things but I don’t hold out much hope. I guess getting instructions install Windows XP,7…. in virtual machine so you can submit applications will appear for Windows 10 users now like OS X and Linux users have .

    Running software in virtual machines is not without its issues either some cases applications fail inside virtual machines when they behave on hardware.

  119. dougman says:

    “Microsoft had been quietly downloading Windows 10 onto Windows 7 and Windows 8-powered computers, shoving an unwanted 6GB file onto some users PCs.”

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2425381/microsoft-is-downloading-windows-10-to-your-machine-just-in-case

  120. dougman says:

    GREAT SCOTT!

    Even the cockroaches will be using Windows 10!

  121. kurkosdr says:

    Now it will be Windows 10 forever!… not only will you be using Windows 10 for a long time, but so will your kids and your grandkids.

    … and so will the cockroaches that take over the planet after the nuclear apocalypse happens.

  122. dougman says:

    Re: I don’t get it. Why would I buy new hardware and keep using old software?

    EH, people did precisely that with Windows XP for seven years plus. M$ crammed Vista down everyone’s throat and everyone including the pope despised it.

    Now it will be Windows 10 forever!… not only will you be using Windows 10 for a long time, but so will your kids and your grandkids.

  123. Deaf Spy says:

    I don’t get it. Why would I buy new hardware and keep using old software? Yeah, as if it makes perfect sense to buy a powerful video card and stay in the dark ages of OpenGL 3 and DX 9. Or perhaps it does in the Loonland, where pluggin in a second monitor requires thumbling with configuration files.

  124. dougman says:

    Re: Linux overwhelmingly dominates: the movie industry, the audio recording industry, Wall Street “back office” operations, robotic manufacturing, and retail point of sales (POS) systems.

    LOl, and the trolls that populate this blog, would call you or I a liar. The thing is Linux has already conquered the desktop and grows increasingly each year.

    The only thing that M$ has these days is Wn-Dohs 10, which coincidently is the last version of Win-Dohs. Think about that for a moment, using the same OS after 5, 10 or even twenty years and tears.

    Eh.

  125. kurkosdr says:

    Check it out, since now that M$ admit it was a failure, they are looking to the use of ARM. Imagine that!

    Looks like the constant ins-and-outs of Sun with x86, back in the before-opensourcing era:
    http://www.sparcproductdirectory.com/view62.html

    And the fundamental problem is the same: The applications binaries are for another architecture, so unless they find a way to fix it, the product will be a dud (as Jerkface said, selling Windows without Windows compatibility).

    Interested to see if something comes out of the new attempt though, and most importantly, if they will allow compilation of Windows Desktop apps for ARM or just provide a secret Desktop stash to support Office and no third party apps.

  126. ram says:

    Yes, and with Linux one can combine old legacy hardware with modern hardware in a cluster and have the best of both worlds: compatibility with old interfaces and data acquisition systems (which were expensive to buy and train staff in the use of), and modern lower power consumption, high storage capacity, and faster computing speeds.

    This is, of course, a big reason Linux overwhelmingly dominates: the movie industry, the audio recording industry, Wall Street “back office” operations, robotic manufacturing, and retail point of sales (POS) systems.

  127. dougman says:

    “Microsoft revealed that it will no longer support its older operating systems on newer hardware platforms. Despite the fact that Extended Support for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 doesn’t end until January 14th, 2020 and January 20th, 2023 respectively”

    Wowzers… M$ is giving a big FU to it’s consumer and business base. However, people could always use Linux and gain what they would have lost by choosing to continue with a loser, namely Windows OS.

  128. dougman says:

    The good ol’ Return It (RT) M$ device is back!

    http://hothardware.com/news/after-windows-rt-implosion-microsoft-could-be-giving-windows-on-arm-second-look

    Check it out, since now that M$ admit it was a failure, they are looking to the use of ARM. Imagine that!

  129. dougman says:

    And your purpose is, Wizard Emeritus…?

    Not that you contribute anything of worth, except trying to spew your M$ BS.

    Eh.

  130. kurkosdr says:

    That’s a crime against humanity.

    And worst of all, Nadella doesn’t even look like Professor Blofeld like Ballmer did. Nadella is the kind of supervillain a C-movie would feature because the actor was a friend of the director or something.

    Now excuse while I fire up my old nx9420 -running Windows 7- and hear humanity scream among the noise of the wheezing cooling fan.

  131. DrLoser says:

    That’s a crime against humanity.

    No it is not, you senile incompetent old fool.

  132. Wizard Emeritus says:

    What you prefer has nothing to do with the points that I was making, Dougie.

    Care to try and address them?

  133. dougman says:

    Re: Pretending that Debian doesn’t have problems with new hardware

    Hmmmmmm… I would prefer Debian/Linux issues/problems, than say problems with M$ software as one can go in the code and make changes, whereas with M$ software everything is locked in a box you cannot fix, and even if you do, M$ can come back and roll right over any changes you made as THEY own the OS, NOT you.

    Eh.

  134. Wizard Emeritus says:

    ” I recommend Debian GNU/Linux so you don’t have to change your entire software stack just because you buy new PCs or servers.”

    However you neglect to mention that you

    a) get to discard most if not all your existing software stack if you go to debian
    b) get to relearn all of your software.
    c) get to relearn how to work with your new Debian computer as Any expertise you may have acquired is now gone.

    And of course there is the reality that any vendor who sells you a computer along with a warranty is going to be responsible for its maintenance between 2017 and 2020 (for windows 7 and 2017 and 2023 for windows 8.

  135. Ivan says:

    Pretending that Debian doesn’t have problems with new hardware is a far worse crime, Bob.

  136. kurkosdr wrote, “We don’t want new computers to run Windows 7 and 8.x”.

    I guess this is one of those times I actually agree M$ is doing the right thing, discouraging folks from imprisoning themselves and their IT with M$’s OS. I don’t want any computer to be running That Other OS. That’s a crime against humanity.

  137. kurkosdr says:

    Translation from MS-speak to english: We don’t want new computers to run Windows 7 and 8.x

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