Confirmed. It’s Time To Throw M$ Out Of The Boat Before It Sinks.

“Global notebook shipments suffered a drop in the first quarter, down 14.1% sequentially and 13.7% on year, the sharpest decline in the notebook industry’s history, showing the current weak status of the industry, according to Digitimes Research’s latest notebook report

Digitimes Research believes that strong tablet demand is the driver behind the drop in first-quarter notebook shipments and emerging countries’ notebook markets are also expected to have been impacted.”
see Digitimes Research: Global notebook shipments see record decline in 1Q13

OEMs, you can’t have it both ways:

  • believing M$ promotes huge gains in PC shipments while
  • blaming tablets when shipments go south.

Not much changed in the last year except M$ tried to inflict one more horror on the world of IT. Economies are recovering. Tablets don’t cover the range of features and performance you’ve told the world are indispensible. What’s wrong is that you allowed M$ to dictate to you what to build for the last two decades. You didn’t have to but you did. Now, when M$ tells you to jump off a cliff, are you going to do it? Think for yourself. ASUS shipped GNU/Linux on eeePCs with huge rates of growth a few years ago but M$ shut them up. Dell is selling GNU/Linux PCs like hot cakes in China and India. Why not everywhere?

There’s a reason M$ interferes in your business, Free Software works for your end-users and M$ makes no money on it. Free Software would work for you too. Just ship it. People will buy it. You can lop ~$100 off the price and still make money. You can bet consumers will notice.

About Robert Pogson

I am a retired teacher in Canada. I taught in the subject areas where I have worked for almost forty years: maths, physics, chemistry and computers. I love hunting, fishing, picking berries and mushrooms, too.

This entry was posted in technology and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

51 Responses to Confirmed. It’s Time To Throw M$ Out Of The Boat Before It Sinks.

  1. ram says:

    I find with Linux and Open Source Software it is fairly easy to:

    (a) find the developer/maintainer of any piece of that software

    (b) convince them to include changes/features I would really like to see. This sometimes requires paying some money, other times an exchange of favors may suffice.

    This approach also gets the modifications into the mainline source tree. Doesn’t bother me if a few million other people make use of the added features. Even things that provide a tactical advantage to my company. By the time the new features make the mainline source and get widely distributed we’ve already gleaned 99% of the tactical advantage it gave us. And, it stays maintained into the future. How good is that!

  2. oiaohm says:

    –The guarantee is that you can get your money back and that any sizable business has a lot of leverage on getting things fixed.–

    Sorry you have no guarantee that you can get your money back. You demand to get money back has to be under reasonable grounds under Law.

    Sizable business has more leverage with FOSS to get stuff fixed than with Closed Source.

    bw
    –That gives you direct access to developers who actually know how to fix whatever your problem may be and who are directly compensated twice a month for doing just that.–

    In fact this is wrong the money you pay to Microsoft does not give you direct access to developers. In FOSS you can directly email/contact the developer who does have the skills to fix it. In fact even bribe who ever his/her boss or him/her is to fix it.

    bw Microsoft does not allow you direct access to the developers.

    Money in the FOSS world allows leverage.

    –That describes pretty accurately the sort of Chinese fire drill that you do not want to have your business dependent upon, I think. Thanks for the enumeration of these problems caused by such a free-for-all system.–

    Chinese fire drill is exactly what you have to depend on with closed source when you hack around a defect in it. Exactly what you said you don’t want to depend on that.

    bw a lot of companies forbid custom patching of FOSS due to the Free for all problem. So yes closed source developer finds issue in some FOSS part they have to submit the fix upstream and get it accepted before they go on or fork the project with approval of boss.

    FOSS by its nature applies conditions to developers they have to obey. bw there is no magic we use FOSS and don’t give back and not get hurt because you did not. Fairly much using foss internally equals so much developer time going to FOSS world as payment and requirement to keep it stable.

  3. bw says:

    “Guess what you custom patch is broken and you now need to spend more time maintaining it.”

    That describes pretty accurately the sort of Chinese fire drill that you do not want to have your business dependent upon, I think. Thanks for the enumeration of these problems caused by such a free-for-all system.

    “There are no guarantees that M$ will fix things either. They don’t even guarantee that anything will work. You just pay your money and get what they give you.”

    The guarantee is that you can get your money back and that any sizable business has a lot of leverage on getting things fixed. You are perhaps unaware of the ombudsman approach that Microsoft has provided for major accounts? That gives you direct access to developers who actually know how to fix whatever your problem may be and who are directly compensated twice a month for doing just that. Compare that to the volunteer fire department sort of Linux “community”.

    “I do know that Lose ’9x caused the whole world billions of re-re-reboots and much loss of data.”

    Details and documentation, please! No more “friend of a friend” anecdotes.

  4. George Wilson wrote, “The only successful Linux distributions are”… followed by a rather short list.

    Debian GNU/Linux is one of the most successful distros ever. It’s widely used on the web and in education where it’s nearly perfect and at the same time it is a general-purpose OS.

    “A closer look, though, shows that if Debian itself is less important than it once was, its influence is greater than ever. Besides Ubuntu itself, 147 of the 321 distributions listed on Distrowatch are based upon Debian. Add the distributions built upon Ubuntu, and 234 of today’s distros — 73 percent — are derived directly or indirectly from Debian. This is an increase of 10 percent over two years ago, and it includes three of the distributions with the top five page views — Linux Mint, Ubuntu, and Debian.

    Instead of becoming inconsequential, today Debian is more influential than ever before. You could say that it has become the major upstream project for the Linux desktop.”

    How could that not be a demonstration of success? I would add to Byfields lists of accomplishments the huge number of Debian developers, mirrors and bandwidth devoted to propagating Debian’s GNU/Linux packages.

  5. George Wilson says:

    Grow up! There are no guarantees that M$ will fix things either. They don’t even guarantee that anything will work.

    Why so defensive, Pogson? Because you know deep down that Windows works. With a Linux distribution you’re handed a construction kit and get the guarantee that things will break for free.

    The only successful Linux distributions are:

    1. Enterprise Linux distributions like Red Hat or SUSE where you pay for that not to happen, which is usually achieved by using only stable (read: age-old) parts.

    2. Android and ChromeOS. And these two aren’t even real distributions. They work because Google has realized that stripping Linux down to the bone and basically only leaving the kernel is the only way to make this crap work.

    3. Any Linux used in an embedded device where the user is not supposed to tinker, where it’s forbidden for him to tinker.

    The last two are basically the best way to make Linux work: locked down systems.

    Any other uses of Linux are for masochists only.

    Windows already worked when Linux wasn’t even shitting in its diapers. And even now — surprise! — that hasn’t changed.

  6. bw wrote, of reporting bugs and offering patches to the FLOSS community, “No guarantee of deliver for the note and no guarantee of any response by the upstream developer who is only driven occasionally by the Muses to produce anything useful.”

    Grow up! There are no guarantees that M$ will fix things either. They don’t even guarantee that anything will work. You just pay your money and get what they give you. I do know that Lose ‘9x caused the whole world billions of re-re-reboots and much loss of data. The FLOSS and GNU/Linux to which I migrated was far superior. Today, M$ still publishes an endless stream of patches that are supposed to fix something. The fact that they never end suggests the quality of the code is certainly not any better than FLOSS. FLOSS being fixable is a huge advantage for IT over that other OS not being fixable.

  7. oiaohm says:

    bw in fact you don’t know why.

    Ok you do custom patch you don’t submit it upstream. Upstream applies a stack of other patches. You need to update that part. Guess what you custom patch is broken and you now need to spend more time maintaining it.

    Ok submit upstream and it successful updating to the next version of library is less painful.

    bw yes there is no guarantee. The price of not attempting to submit upstream is not particularly nice. In fact it is particularly nasty.

    bw hours wasted maintaining a custom patch that could have been submit upstream basically does no go down well.

    Every successful delivery equal better results.

    Now there is every chance you submit it upstream and they go hey we are not accepting that because it will screw up this way. Result less bugs for your end users.

    bw basically 4 outcomes.
    1) ignored by upstream. Cost you about as much to maintain as if you did not.
    2) accepted by upstream. Reduced maintenance costs.
    3) Rejected by upstream for no good reason. Same maintaine cost.
    4) Rejected by upstream due to defect. Less upset end users.

    No outcome is any worse for the company. There are possible benefits to win.

    bw lets be simple here a phone that crashes on end users is not going to be too popular.

  8. bw says:

    “If you have access to the source code it in fact makes sense to submit fixes upstream than do custom internal hacks around bugs.”

    Of course that is like sending a cry for help by sticking a note in an old bottle and setting it adrift with the tide. No guarantee of deliver for the note and no guarantee of any response by the upstream developer who is only driven occasionally by the Muses to produce anything useful.

    Serendipity does not appeal to many in commercial needs.

  9. oiaohm says:

    –There is some logic to that although it really ends up with more developers working on what are likely to be proprietary Linux-compatible software for internal, embedded appliance implementation.–

    bw there is a catch of course. That proprietary software running on Linux still has to work with other parts.

    If you have access to the source code it in fact makes sense to submit fixes upstream than do custom internal hacks around bugs.

    Most developers on Linux core projects spend so much time doing proprietary software work. They need the core to work as much as the next person.

    Bw recent example samsung using gecko rendering engine internally somewhere. So sending money and developers to Mozilla. But there are many more examples.

    The proprietary work on stuff in there best interests. Working out what there current best interest are is very complex. Lot of times it does line up with what you want todo on desktop.

    Bw two things a tablet requires. Stable graphics stack and Stable audio stack. What have been Linux desktops biggest problems.

    bw there is a old rule that even applies to proprietary Linux-compatible software. Don’t reinvent the wheel when you don’t have to.

    So a percentage of a proprietary Linux-compatible software developers time will be spend working on FOSS projects they depend on.

  10. bw says:

    “every sale still ends up with more developers working on Linux”

    There is some logic to that although it really ends up with more developers working on what are likely to be proprietary Linux-compatible software for internal, embedded appliance implementation.

    The same thing applies to Windows if you use the same logic. Both Windows and Linux have quite enough developers to keep the OS trimmed up. Some may argue that Windows wvwn has too many developers who have little to do beyond dream up intricate fantasies such as Windows 8. Of course that improves their ability to make mid-course corrections to things like Vista that went too far.

  11. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson the answer is no not yes. Because every sale still ends up with more developers working on Linux.

  12. George Wilson says:

    George Wilson is it really important that end user knows they are using Linux.

    Yes, it is. Because Pogson always claims that every sale of a Linux-powered device is a sale which directly results from the device being powered by Linux.

    I say Bullshit to that. Circular arguing at its best.

    People don’t buy smartphones because of Linux, just as they don’t buy their TiVo because of Linux. Any company knows when it comes to marketing: you can use Linux for your stuff, but hide it well.

  13. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson is it really important that end user knows they are using Linux.

    People use web sites all the time powered by Linux.

    End of day if end user knows the OS is there is not that important for majority of customers.

  14. ram says:

    No doubt about it, UEFI, is hammering the sales of those hardware devices. Unlike previous items that were pushed out with Microsoft preinstalled (only to be removed by the end-user, usually corporates or their contractors), no amount of price discounting can remove UEFI, so the stuff just sits. Sooner or later it is going to go to the tip directly from the retailers that stocked them.

  15. George Wilson wrote, “In fact, Dell (US) doesn’t sell any notebook with Linux to consumers.”

    That would be very stupid of Dell if it were true. It would probably be prima facie evidence of exclusive dealing with M$, too.

    Dell:

    RECOMMENDED

    Ubuntu is no longer available on home PCs.
    Shop Dell’s For Work site for the latest Ubuntu products.”

    So, the consumer merely clicks on http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/laptops.aspx and Dell will sell it to them. Big deal! Just supply an invented business-name and away we go. No need to establish an account.

  16. George Wilson says:

    In fact Dell/us lists 9 models of Vostro/Latitude/XPS with GNU/Linux so this is not just a China/India thing any longer.

    In fact, Dell (US) sells 405 business notebooks with Windows.

    In fact, it’s to be expected that Dell (US) sells some notebooks with Linux or without OS to business customers.

    In fact, Dell (US) doesn’t sell any notebook with Linux to consumers.

  17. George Wilson says:

    I look at FlipKart and see lots of good things written. Very few are mentioning that other OS as an option. They are mostly concerned about the hardware.

    You see what you want to see. That always has been one of your problems. You saw Microsoft on the very verge of collapse how often now?

    People are buying stuff to run GNU/Linux.

    Let’s stop with this academic bullshit:

    1. Drive to your next big electronics store.

    2. Ask everyone who buys a computer or a smartphone or a tablet or a TiVo or whatever if he or she buys it to run Linux on it.

    3. Show us some nice statistics.

    And then repent and stop claiming things which are not true.

  18. bw wrote, “The facts of the matter are that Linux users in the US, Canada, Europe and even Australia buy new Windows PCs and fool around installing Linux. That is their hobby and that amuses them. “

    Dell is selling today to businesses GNU/Linux notebooks. see other comment

  19. oiaohm wrote, “George Wilson was mostly using the comments at FlipKart as attempt to win a point.”

    Pretty poor job of that. I look at FlipKart and see lots of good things written. Very few are mentioning that other OS as an option. They are mostly concerned about the hardware.

    People are buying stuff to run GNU/Linux.

    The most popular Linux laptop on the site is Dell Vostro 2520 with a five star rating and no mention of that other OS at all.

    “Good configuration for less price
    I have purchased Dell Vostro from flipkart. They have delivered within 3 days from the date of order. This laptop is very fast and clean. I have verified the processor speed. It was really good. The screen looks very big and the best part is it light wieght

    Pros:
    – i3 Processor
    – Good speed
    – Beautiful keyboard
    – Audio is clean

    Cons:
    – As of now nothing”

    George Wilson is out to lunch… The Dell Vostro 2520 is also rated 5stars on Dell.com/us and comes with Ubuntu GNU/Linux… In fact Dell/us lists 9 models of Vostro/Latitude/XPS with GNU/Linux so this is not just a China/India thing any longer.

  20. oiaohm says:

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408280,00.asp

    Duel boot and Linux only is optional to include -.

    bw
    –Whether or not there are Linux computers for sale in India does not affect you or me.–
    bw as a Windows user no it does not effect you in your face but will effect items around you. As a Linux user it does effect me.

    Linux sales do indirectly effect Linux users even ones like you bw who will be but it will be in ways you don’t notice. Sales lead to more developers working on different things in Linux so faster software development.

    So computer sales in india Germany …. anywhere are important to us Linux users due to the effects on developers numbers working on Linux.

    How much money Bill Gates has really does not effect how many developers Linux and Open Source programs will have working on them. So please drop this idea that we care how much money Bill Gates or Michael Dell or other rich people have. The amount of money they have has major no effect on Linux and FOSS itself.

    bw
    –Even that begs the question as to why you would ever need such a thing.–

    Having to ask this shows you lack of knowledge about duel-boot tri-boot and other multi OS options and why users are forced down those paths.

    If you have to ask this you have not worked on complex hardware.

    –If it is necessary to use Windows for some task, it is best to have a Windows computer handy. Ditto for Linux.–

    Managing networks at times you do need to run Windows only software and at times you do need to run Linux only software due to closed source vendors of different parts providing limited platform support.

    This is virtual machines and sometimes duel boot.

    To write firmware into different devices some write from Windows some write form Linux and really bad some write from freedos. Some write from combinations of. Firmware writing to devices lot of cases cannot be done from inside emulation lags can be fatal to the device.

    bw so there are Windows Users, Linux Users and Multi OS users and then some rarities.

    bw if you are travelling you may only have room for 1 computer.

    A Linux only machine is a complete liability in some cases just like a Windows only machine is a complete liability.

    bw duel-boot is a required market segment.

    UEFI secure-boot directly stomps on those users needing Multi-boot.

  21. bw says:

    “Does this bother us Linux users. Money is temporary item.”

    You miss the point completely. Whether or not there are Linux computers for sale in India does not affect you or me. It does not even affect Bill Gates or any other Microsoft big wheel at any personal level. It is just a number on a back page of an unread report.

  22. bw says:

    “If you need a duel boot machine Linux only machine can be a complete pain.”

    “Duel”? Such sloppy work! Not much of a user of the comma or hyphen or indefinite articles either. Also, rather vague.

    Try “If you need a dual-boot machine, a Linux-only machine may be a liability.”

    Even that begs the question as to why you would ever need such a thing. If it is necessary to use Windows for some task, it is best to have a Windows computer handy. Ditto for Linux. If the tasks are not important enough to justify having the proper equipment, consider forgoing the task. Apply some practical thinking here.

    If you look at the cite I referenced at Wal-Mart, you can see where you can have a dedicated machine, guaranteed to work by Acer, for only a few hundred dollars for either environment. If you cannot afford such a pittance in order to meet a need, the need itself is inconsequential and you can certainly make do with whatever is available in either technology.

  23. oiaohm says:

    bw http://linuxpreloaded.com/ They are a lot of vendors that do sell Linux installed machines in the USA, Europe and Australia.

    We don’t have to buy a Windows machine and convert them.

    Yes Western World would never order from FlipKart for a Linux machine. George Wilson was mostly using the comments at FlipKart as attempt to win a point.

    Sorry bw lot of Linux users either acquire OS less or machines built for Linux. Bw the problem here in a dropping market Linux users do pay more per unit that goes to the OEM.

    –The Michael Dells and Bill Gates of the world are already rich beyond imagination so it hardly matters even to them.–
    Does this bother us Linux users. Money is temporary item.

    There is a issue with buying a Linux only machine. Is exactly that. If you need a duel boot machine Linux only machine can be a complete pain.

  24. bw says:

    Get real. No one in the Western World is going to order a laptop from India to save a few bucks on Windows. I doubt that the price difference would even begin to pay the shipping costs. You all have a crazy idea about how business is done.

    The facts of the matter are that Linux users in the US, Canada, Europe and even Australia buy new Windows PCs and fool around installing Linux. That is their hobby and that amuses them. They prate endlessly about “distros” and “packages” and other such nonsense. They are just fans.

    What people buy in India or China is not really any concern to anyone but a few individuals who might profit from the trade. The Michael Dells and Bill Gates of the world are already rich beyond imagination so it hardly matters even to them.

  25. oiaohm says:

    –Look at the FlipKart comments and see the truth for yourself. Or do you want to suggest that all those people commenting on how easy it is to install Windows on these Linux machines Flipkart sells are paid Microsoft shills?–

    George Wilson you see Linux people saying the same thing it was a easy install when the machine is truly an ass. Just because you have comments that it easy does not mean that everyone can in fact do it.

    What one person calls easy another calls hard.

    George Wilson the reality its just as hard to pave over either direction. If you don’t know what you are doing it will bite you.

  26. George Wilson says:

    Dumbo. The topic was paving over GNU/Linux machines with that other OS as if it happens a lot and is easily done by consumers…

    Yes, it does. Ask your Indian and Chinese friends instead of assuming things because you see that FlipKart sells notebooks with Linux. Look at the FlipKart comments and see the truth for yourself. Or do you want to suggest that all those people commenting on how easy it is to install Windows on these Linux machines Flipkart sells are paid Microsoft shills?

    You trolls want to have it both ways that folks buy GNU/Linux in order to install that other OS to imagine GNU/Linux disappears. When we claim GNU/Linux is paving that other OS you say it is too hard for consumers. Double standard…

    Pogson, you claimed that Linux is too hard to install for normal consumers. You wrote it here on your blog. Let me cite you:

    George Wilson wrote, “nothing and no one prevents you from saying goodbye to Microsoft and installing another OS.”

    That’s a solution for geeks only. I was writing that comment from the viewpoint of a mortal. I doubt if more than 1 in 100 mortals are confident/competent/comfortable installing an OS.

    So, which double standard were you talking about again?

  27. oiaohm says:

    bw –Dumbo. It comes with Windows already installed, so there is no need to do that.–

    bw you are a Dumbo. Acer aspire one 725. If you order that straight form Acer and are not careful you will get Linux version when you want Windows or Windows version when you want Linux.

    Acer are not like ASUS where the model number is different for the Linux version.

    bw if you have a Windows one and you want to Install Linux or a Linux one and you want install Windows of an Acer Aspire One 725 you are in for an ass hole of a time.

    Acer Aspire One 725 is one of the rare ones that truly does come in Windows and Linux versions. Worst at times exactly the same model number.

    Yes bw they are on sale in the USA both ways.

    If you have got the wrong one you might be paving over it the other way.

    bw the reality here is George Wilson is claiming Linux machines get paved over by Windows. Linux paving over Windows is too hard.

    Reality is both ways paving over suxes at times. OEM hardware required tweaks because the hardware will not operate generic are a complete prick.

  28. bw wrote, “Dumbo. It comes with Windows already installed, so there is no need to do that.”

    Dumbo. The topic was paving over GNU/Linux machines with that other OS as if it happens a lot and is easily done by consumers… You trolls want to have it both ways that folks buy GNU/Linux in order to install that other OS to imagine GNU/Linux disappears. When we claim GNU/Linux is paving that other OS you say it is too hard for consumers. Double standard…

  29. bw says:

    “Acer Aspire 725 are one of the one that black screen out if you attempt to install Windows ”

    Dumbo. It comes with Windows already installed, so there is no need to do that.

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/22099647?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

  30. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson
    –4. My “boy” is disappointed and installs Windows.–
    And it did not work and failed really badly because it was a ACER that required custom ACPI drivers and he used a Generic Windows OEM disc.
    “acpi_backlight=acer” is required on lots of acer machines with Linux same with the customer acer driver or the screen kinda black. Some do use proper generic back-light controls. Most acer laptops don’t.

    There are many machines out there that don’t operate correctly with generic Windows Discs or Generic Set Linux Discs. Your Acer example George Wilson is one where you must use a Acer configured disc or modify settings.

    “acpi_osi=Linux” That you don’t use unless you have no other option. Since the acpi tables for Linux are normally more broken than the Windows tables Linux takes by default. Acer on the other hand the acpi_osi table for Linux does work as a fallback.

    George Wilson and keeping acpi_osi=Linux operational takes resources. So yes its a direct sign of Acer support.

    –Actually, it’s not irrelevant from a business perspective, as Microsoft gets money for a sale, whereas with Linux nobody gets anything.–
    If you look at dell and others the OEM vendor gets the money. Since they don’t mark down for not including Windows.

    Acer Aspire 725 are one of the one that black screen out if you attempt to install Windows with generic disc in fact it will do that halfway threw the install process. Yes you require to slipstream the Acer acpi drivers in to the install disc to install on that. Before you say use the eternal monitor that when screen goes black powers down. So Acer or customer Windows Disc only to install Windows. Yet you can install with a generic Linux disc with minor tweaking.

    George Wilson clean installing Windows is not straight forwards. Some machines are way less likely to be converted to windows from Linux due to them being a huge pain in ass.

  31. kozmcrae says:

    5. Windows works

    Until the latest update that is.

  32. George Wilson wrote, “This month FlipKart sold 100 Acer Aspire 725 notebooks. Does that mean that the 100 buyers are using their notebooks with Linux?”

    No. It probably means hundreds of users are using GNU/Linux because there are many more users of the Internet in those parts than there are PCs. In China, for instance, Internet cafes became a big industry just because of that. Even in my home, the few PCs that are running in the “common” areas are used by multiple folks. Last night there was a party and 30 people used the GNU/Linux PC in the living room to watch a YouTube video produced by my daughter. GNU/Linux did the job and they all knew it.

  33. George Wilson says:

    So if OEM’s sell Linux system the above happens according to the shills so it doesn’t count that the systems were sold with Linux

    Of course it does not count.

    If someone buys a computer with the intent of installing Windows (or Linux), then it is irrelevant with which OS the computer originally comes. (Actually, it’s not irrelevant from a business perspective, as Microsoft gets money for a sale, whereas with Linux nobody gets anything.)

    Sure, it makes for nice statistics: This month FlipKart sold 100 Acer Aspire 725 notebooks. Does that mean that the 100 buyers are using their notebooks with Linux? No, it means that 100 notebooks with Linux pre-installed were sold.

    Linus Torvalds buys a Chromebook Pixel. He immediately removes ChromeOS and installs a “real” Linux. Does he then count as a ChromeOS user?

  34. George Wilson says:

    So if you untangle that sentence what you get is that there is no problem with the brightness adjustment.

    Mr. Koz logic at work. I’ll untangle it for you stupid people:

    1. My “boy” boots Linux Mint.

    2. My “boy” knows nothing about kernel options.

    3. My “boy” finds that certain things are not working out of the box.

    4. My “boy” is disappointed and installs Windows.

    5. Windows works.

    See? That was easy!

    There’s a difference between it being possible to get something to work with the appropriate knowledge and it working out of the box.

    Keep me entertained, Mr. Koz.

    And, Mr. Koz, do tell me what your ZD Net post regarding UEFI has to do with this. Because it has nothing to do at all with this.

  35. lpbbear says:

    The wacky wild ways the MS apologists world view works.

    “Then they immediately give Linux the boot and install Windows so that they can get work done.”

    So if OEM’s sell Linux system the above happens according to the shills so it doesn’t count that the systems were sold with Linux

    and

    if Linux users buy Windows systems, wipe Windows and install Linux that also doesn’t count according to the shills.

    Sigh……..

  36. kozmcrae says:

    George Wilson wrote:

    “So that means he successfully booted Mint. And I never stated something to the contrary.”

    “Wow! What a glowing endorsement. A notebook sold with Linux that doesn’t work properly out of the box with one of the most popular Linux distributions.”

    “In fact, it’s a pretty well known problem that things like brightness adjustment in Linux don’t work with many Acer notebooks unless you issue special options to the kernel at boot time.”

    So if you untangle that sentence what you get is that there is no problem with the brightness adjustment. And what you get when you untangle your post is that there is no problem running Linux on the Aspire One 725 Netbook. So what *was* the point of your post?

  37. bw says:

    “2013: 1300 000 (est.) (~0,7%)”

    Not much of a dent in that market for a price cutter from a top brand after 3 years. I think the Zune did better in its day.

  38. bw says:

    “LIAR!”

    My claim of no documentation was in regard to the ” but M$ shut them up” clause, not to the initial success story for the netbook. If the article had said “This is a roaring success for ASUS, but Microsoft has told them to cease and desist or else Microsoft would squash them like a roach”.

    Instead the article went on to say:

    “Finding new applications to add requires users to add new repositories, a process that is likely to send curious Linux novices deep into a pit of frustration. Even if they figure out the difference between Multiverse and Universe, and manage to add repositories for Debian and Xandros (on which the Eee’s Linux is based), users overjoyed by the newfound selection of software are likely to throw hands in the air when the software they install fails to work, or even stops the system working properly.”

    Did you read that part? It seems to be at odds with your primary thesis.

  39. Mats Hagglund says:

    http://www.digitimes.com/Reports/Report.asp?datepublish=2013/04/08&pages=RS&seq=400

    Google ChromeBook shipments:

    2011: 200 000 (0,1%)
    2012: 500 000 (0,25% of global portables)
    2013: 1300 000 (est.) (~0,7%)

  40. George Wilson says:

    Ah, the dreaded spelling mistakes. Sorry, Mr. Koz.

  41. George Wilson says:

    LOL! Kozmcrare, you’ve just outdone yourself. My “boy” (as you so affectionately called him) wrote this:

    7. There’s some problem while installing Linux, I’m sure that problem is particularly with me only. The trackpad and brightness adjustment keys were not working while I tried a Live-Disk of Mint.

    So that means he successfully booted Mint. And I never stated something to the contrary. In fact, it’s a pretty well known problem that things like brightness adjustment in Linux don’t work with many Acer notebooks unless you issue special options to the kernel at boot time. Most of the time these will suffice:

    acpi_osi=Linux acpi_vendor=backlight

    Of course, you would have expected that Acer has an interest to fix these things if they sell notebooks with Linux pre-installed in India and elsewhere. In reality they don’t give to shits about Linux, because they know that people will install Windows.

    One realizes immediately that you don’t know your way around Linux, as you’ve made one other mistake: if Linux truly can’t be booted with UEFI activated on the notebook in question, then naturally the Indian version would have UEFI deactivated already, as a Linux distribution is pre-installed there.

    Good showing, kozmcrae, good showing.

  42. kozmcrae says:

    Well George, looks like your boy doesn’t know his ass from his elbow. If you are going to cherry pick, then here’s one for you (Same laptop).

    “One of the more popular in this category is Linux Mint 14, which I have also already installed. To do this, you have to change the BIOS from UEFI boot to Legacy boot, and then boot the Mint Live image. From that point on, installation is routine, and once again, everything works.”

    http://www.zdnet.com/swapping-windows-8-for-linux-mint-opensuse-and-fedora-on-my-new-netbook-7000012755/

  43. George Wilson says:

    If you say so.

    Strange that the customers of FlipKart happen to disagree. Read the comments under your precious Linux notebooks FlipKart has to offer. Yes, the notebooks you linked to not a long time ago. Let’s look again, at the cheapest Linux notebook they’re offering:

    Acer Aspire One 725

    Kumar Ankush writes:

    3. All the drivers are available on the ACER website, no reason to panic in case of loss of driver disk.
    4. Did you know Windows 8 works flawless on this device? 😀

    Seems like he’s using Windows. Kumar also writes:

    7. There’s some problem while installing Linux, I’m sure that problem is particularly with me only. The trackpad and brightness adjustment keys were not working while I tried a Live-Disk of Mint.

    Wow! What a glowing endorsement. A notebook sold with Linux that doesn’t work properly out of the box with one of the most popular Linux distributions.

    Yes, Pogson, I admit defeat. You are right. No Indian removes the piece of junk known as Linux from the hard drive. Ever!

    Chuckle.

  44. George Wilson, with no basis in fact, wrote, “Then you lie again, claiming that Dell sells Linux in India and China. But all that’s really happening is people grabbing cheap hardware. Then they immediately give Linux the boot and install Windows so that they can get work done. Some amazing salesmanship.”

    I suppose, unlike every other nation of consumers around the world, the Indians are all computer geeks and ready willing and able to install an OS. That’s crap. India runs a lot of GNU/Linux at home and at work.

    see also this.

  45. bw wrote, “Nothing in the trade press about any of that.”

    LIAR!
    “That’s a significant win for mini-notebooks, a new class of ultra-lightweight devices that didn’t even exist a year ago. These days, the devices are playing a major role in the growth of the PC market: overall sales increased 8.3% between the first quarter of 2007 and the same time this year, and Eee sales boosted ASUS’ local market share from 8.1% in 1Q2007 to 11.8% in 1Q2008, according to IDC’s Quarterly PC Tracker figures.

    Without the Eee, that figure would have been closer to 9%, according to Felipe Rego, associate market analyst with IDC Australia, who says the Eee accounted for 2.9% of all notebooks sold in Australia during the quarter.

    What is so significant about this figure is not only its scale, but the fact that the Eee is perhaps the first notebook model to enjoy mainstream success without running Microsoft’s ubiquitous Windows XP operating system.”

  46. oiaohm says:

    –In the USA and in most other countries your precious EeePC is only available with Windows.

    What a twit you are.–

    As normal USA twit. Eee PC 1225C is in the USA. Same with many other countries.

    The 1225B is Windows the 1225C is Ubuntu Stupid that it appears on Amazon as no OS.

    Yes 12 inch is identical other than OS and OS in this case is set by letter.

    usa.asus.com does not cover what Asus really sells in a country.

  47. George Wilson says:

    In the USA and in most other countries your precious EeePC is only available with Windows.

    What a twit you are.

  48. oiaohm says:

    bw sorry twit.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/258454/new_asus_pc_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html

    The complete time Asus has been releasing Linux models of there eeePC and others. They have been in the trade presses. It did not stop due to the release of XP or 7.

  49. bw says:

    “ASUS shipped GNU/Linux on eeePCs with huge rates of growth a few years ago but M$ shut them up. Dell is selling GNU/Linux PCs like hot cakes in China and India.”

    Nothing in the trade press about any of that. All of the netbook makers jumped on the XP starter and, a little later, Windows 7 Starter bandwagon, eschewing the original Linux adaptations that they started with.

    Some people say the OEMs only started with Linux to beat Microsoft into submission and make them give the OEMs a low enough price to get the netbook ball rolling, which it did. Netbooks just did not have the screen and processor horsepower for the general market, though, and they are dying out, particularly in the face of tablets which are more appropriate for web viewing.

    Where can you buy a hotcake anyway? Does anyone in China actually eat them? I am not sure what one actually looks like unless it is what is called a pancake in my part of the world. Even then, they are not such hot sellers. Egg and sausage McMuffins are much more popular here.

    I know that you consider Microsoft to be evil incarnate, but I think they are just a bunch of schmoes like me and you trying to find a comfortable niche somewhere. I think that when you find one of your own, you can put Microsoft out of mind. They were the big news of the 80’s, 90’s and even a little of the 2K’s, but they are not the big news anymore.

    If you need some icons to attack, pick on Apple or Google or Facebook. They are the audacious onces today. MS is old news and out of the public eye these days.

  50. oiaohm says:

    George Wilson the problem in china is many of the units sold cannot run Windows. Wrong motherboard.

    Not all x86 motherboards can Windows run on.

    Dell does produce some Linux only models. Reason Microsoft screaming about piracy so they made some coreboot based with Linux kernel loader only. Yes x86 never runs windows.

  51. George Wilson says:

    Confirmed by whom? That’s right, only by you.

    Then you lie again, claiming that Dell sells Linux in India and China. But all that’s really happening is people grabbing cheap hardware. Then they immediately give Linux the boot and install Windows so that they can get work done. Some amazing salesmanship.

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