SJVN quotes Google. It’s a great line and it’s the truth. As much as naysayers condemn GNU/Linux on the desktop, it sure beats the alternatives every way imaginable:
- price,
- security,
- flexibility (licence, installation and configuration),
- performance, and
- management.
Google made some poor decisions IMHO with Android/Linux but they chose Ubuntu GNU/Linux because of its package manager, APT, and Canonical’s “cadence” which suits Google’s upgrade cycle of two years. I guess they haven’t heard of thin clients… Oh, well. Google can afford to disagree with me. They also pay Canonical for support.
see The truth about Goobuntu: Google's in-house desktop Ubuntu Linux | ZDNet.
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“You’d be a fool to use anything but Linux”
And some of them should be showing up any moment now…..
Luckily, differing opinions from genuine Linux people do exist:
Miguel de Izaca: What Killed the Linux Desktop
Exhibit A:
To sum up: (a) First dimension: things change too quickly, breaking both open source and proprietary software alike; (b) incompatibility across Linux distributions.
Exhibit B:
But we missed the big picture. We alienated every third party developer in the process. The ecosystem that has sprung to life with Apple’s OSX AppStore is just impossible to achieve with Linux today.
Exhibit C:
The most pragmatic contributors to Linux and open source gradually changed their goals from “an world run by open source” to “the open web”. Others found that messing around with their audio card every six months to play music and the hardships of watching video on Linux were not worth that much. People started moving to OSX.
Many hackers moved to OSX. It was a good looking Unix, with working audio, PDF viewers, working video drivers, codecs for watching movies and at the end of the day, a very pleasant system to use. Many exchanged absolute configurability of their system for a stable system.
Exhibit D:
Backwards compatibility, and compatibility across Linux distributions is not a sexy problem. It is not even remotely an interesting problem to solve. Nobody wants to do that work, everyone wants to innovate, and be responsible for the next big feature in Linux.
So Linux was left with idealists that wanted to design the best possible system without having to worry about boring details like support and backwards compatibility.
Meanwhile, you can still run the 2001 Photoshop that came when XP was launched on Windows 8. And you can still run your old OSX apps on Mountain Lion.
Oh yeah, you’d have to be a fool to not run Linux. You’d have to be an even bigger fool to run Linux instead of choosing Windows or Mac OS X.
Quotes from the article:
“Windows tools tend to be heavy and inflexible.”
“A single reboot can cost us a million dollars per instance.”
On a desktop?!?
Thanks for digging up this funny article!
The Cult of Microsoft has a special way to deal with posts like this one. Essentially it goes like this: “No, no, no, no, no, no.”
I use Linux Mint 11 for my day job; the local MSVP IT Admin stressed to me and others that I needed to use Windows.
Eh??, say what?
I turned my Dell 1525 around 180-degrees, rotated from one of my virtual screens and asked him why and to explain further.
After his little rant, I received a grumbled grunt when he looked at my screen then stormed out sans explanation.
I was expecting some sort of retribution, but to be honest he asked that I not tell anyone else what I was doing, less he be out on his bum and not needed, or so he thought.
I said, well perhaps you should upgrade your knowledge and become Linux certified, the pay is better.
2012 Linux Jobs Report – Strong Demand Drives Higher Salaries, More Perks for Linux Professionals
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/sites/main/files/dice_lf_linux_jobs_report_2012.pdf
I explained for many companies, Linux just makes strategic sense. As businesses continue to increase their risk tolerance toward open source software within the enterprise, it’s not surprising that the following benefits begin to look even more attractive:
Cost structure-Linux is inexpensive (often free), as the cost of ownership, compared to licensed OSes like UNIX and Windows, is relatively minimal.
Support-Like any open source platform, Linux boasts an extremely rich user support community.
Security-There is a reduced susceptibility to virus, malware and spyware issues.
Customizable and flexible-Linux provides greater freedom for customization and it also supports a wide variety of hardware options and installation configurations.
Without the limitations of proprietary OS dependencies, and as more IT organizations are tasked with ‘doing more with less,’ it’s easy to envision Linux’s low-cost scalability, flexibility and performance gaining increased traction.
After looking online, he thanked me and will be looking into it certification further.
One thing to mention, a months later after the above incident, he came by to thank me again as I seem to be the ONLY one that never has IT related problems.
Hmmmmmmm.
@ lpbbear
And some of them should be showing up any moment now…..
and so you did.
@ Ipbbear
Sorry couldn’t resist that no offense meant.
He was speaking for himself, from a third-person point of view.
Thanks Robert, for pointing this out regarding Google’s embracing of the Linux Desktop Ubuntu to produce their fork Goobuntu.
I’ve been a Linux user for the past decade, because of its stability, fast booting, relative safety in comparison to Microsoft Windows in surfing the Internet. I have been using Debian and Ubuntu since 2006.
For example, here is good reason:
[quote]
678,000 infected Windows PCs
Stone-Gross said Dell SecureWorks found out a lot about Gameover ZeuS by “crawling the peers,” and found evidence of 678,000 infected Windows PCs. “It’s probably the largest banking Trojan today,” he says. It’s all run as a private operation, probably from Russia and Ukraine, and it doesn’t appear that the P2P ZeuS code is being sold online as a kit to other cybercriminals.
[/quote]
Dell SecureWorks researcher Brett Stone-Gross deconstructs dangerous money stealer
By Ellen Messmer, 26 July 2012
http://news.techworld.com/security/3372250/gameover-zeus-p2p-bank-theft-botnet-has-infected-678000-windows-pcs/
dougman wrote, “I seem to be the ONLY one that never has IT related problems.”
I can relate to that. I was told that several times by IT HQ types. I was teaching students how to maintain ATX PCs, install OS, set up networks and servers when other teachers were limited to typing and word-processing.
ch wrote, ““A single reboot can cost us a million dollars per instance.”
On a desktop?!?
Thanks for digging up this funny article!”
That’s not funny at all. Imagine IBM with 300K+ employees needing a reboot in the middle of the workday because M$ unleashes the hounds in Redmond. What’s a couple of minutes of IBM’s payroll? I was stressed when I ran a system of 100PCs. In an emergency we could send a message to everyone to reboot but that would not work because some would refuse to reboot, others would ignore the request, others would be away from their desk or giving a presentation to students… Imagine the chaos a much larger organization achieves when suddenly what was a homogeneous system becomes fragmented. I think just for an ordinary individual a bill for ~$1 should be sent to M$ for each reboot. For businesses it’s probably an order of magnitude more than that. Imagine 1000 million PCs rebooting at M$’s request and submitting a bill for $5. Their go the quarterly profits for the client division.
Reboots matter and re-re-reboots matter more. They alone are sufficient reason to leave M$ and go to GNU/Linux.
Thorsten Rahn wrote, “You’d have to be an even bigger fool to run Linux instead “.
I figure switching to GNU/Linux has been one of top five best thing I have done in my life. I have helped thousands find freedom and given them much better IT at the same time. Doing the right thing is rarely foolish in the long run. Digging a deeper hole for yourself with M$’s spade is not cool.
” I have helped thousands find freedom and given them much better IT at the same time. ”
Sorry Pog but technology that does not do what I need it to do is not better IT. This software that I need is not there. The so called equivalents are unacceptable to me.
You can keep your alledged “freedom” it does me no good.
“Digging a deeper hole for yourself with M$’s spade is not cool.”
Whether you accept it or not Microsoft and the products built on Microsoft OS’s keep myself and quite a few others productive.
And that IS cool!
@ldman wrote:
“Whether you accept it or not Microsoft and the products built on Microsoft OS’s keep myself and quite a few others productive.”
And you take that productivity in trade for the problems that come with Microsoft products. It’s a trade you make willingly because you like their products and are familiar with them.
Scroll back through the posts on this blog for a refresher on the problems with Microsoft’s products.
oldman wrote, “technology that does not do what I need it to do is not better IT.”
No problem with that statement, except the “I”. What you need is not what the world needs, oldman. I have met many thousands who need a browser and word-processor and not much more. I taught a class once where I assigned students to use five different word-processors, including M$’s to do some fairly common task, like writing a letter. The consensus was that all of them were better than typewriters and all of them were a great assistance in producing a good product rapidly. They found no advantage whatsoever to using M$’s office suite so they certainly did not need M$’s OS. Further, my students actually read the EULA and bristled at the reasonable things it forbade them to do like connecting PCs together. That’s not better IT. It’s less IT and they knew it. Clearly, my students found the price/performance of GNU/Linux far superior to that other OS and it did provide good IT. They were able to do things they could not imagine with that other OS, like running a server on their desktops. They could see what a burden to IT M$’s EULA is. Why can’t you?
oldman
“Sorry Pog but technology that does not do what I need it to do is not better IT. This software that I need is not there. The so called equivalents are unacceptable to me.”
If Google internal numbers are anything to go by less than 10 percent of there staff really need Microsoft Products at all. IBM says less than 20 percent.
The reality a minority of staff really need Microsoft Products. A lot more Want MS products.
Oldman it does not matter if you like it or not. The facts say you are the Minority a major over spoken Minority.
Some of the problem is the Minority who has a job that truly needs a MS product. Has no skill normally todo the job without it. So results in pushing that solution on everyone else so making the cost of everyone else more expensive in the business.
MS Office 2013 will make me very happy since it will now have pdf and odf 1.2 out so we can base ball bat people like you oldman into sending stuff around offices that does not cause excess expenditure.
Oldman the really big thing is stop using defacto standards.
We have real standard like ODF and PDF to use now that are truly cross platform. This does bring cost reduction because you don’t have the stupidity in the Office any more that a person needing to just read or write simple docs needs MS Office any more.
” Oldman it does not matter if you like it or not. The facts say you are the Minority a major over spoken Minority.”
And you are a wannabe geek who represents even a smaller minority. GO back to fixing your fences hamster and leave the real work to the professionals.
“They could see what a burden to IT M$’s EULA is. Why can’t you?”
Because unlike you who are a parasite at heart who expects to get something for nothing, I understand that the terms in the EULA are part of the cost of doing business.
Since I wish to take advantage of the function and features in a particular set of commercial software, I get to meet the terms of the licensing.
Its that simple.
oldman wrote, “I understand that the terms in the EULA are part of the cost of doing business”.
No, they are not. A business that throws in all kinds of hooks into a contract is normally not in business for long. In our renovations we dealt with several contractors and suppliers. Do you think any of them got a contract/sale requiring us to give them perpetual access to our home, limiting the number of people we could have in our home, or requiring us to keep in contact with them periodically? In a competitive market such things would be seen as an undue burden. To M$’s locked-in slaves, such things are a “cost of doing business”. Give your head a shake. Go read the EULA when you’re sober.
No problem with that statement, except the “I”.
All due respect, Mr. Pogson, but the oldman, if he is who he claims, is an experienced administrator of a large enterprise data center viewing real-world problems and using conventional solutions. He speaks of using what works for “him” but that is reasonable to extend to include the “world” as you put it.
Your experience, by contrast, is anecdotal and derives from a collateral duty as resident IT “expert” in rural Canadian schools where the main goal was simply to meet an austere budget. Doubtless a “free” OS (as in beer) is a great aid in that effort, but it provides you with a very distorted view of the “world of IT”.
They could see what a burden to IT M$’s EULA is.
You once had a horribly wrong view about how CALs applied to Windows networks that was only corrected recently and now you seem to be espousing a similarly distorted idea about EULA restrictions applied to networks.
A business that throws in all kinds of hooks into a contract is normally not in business for long.
You mean Google and IBM are going out of business or are you talking out of your ass to support your argument?
Quotes from the blowhard mind of Mr. Pompous.
“And you are a wannabe geek who represents even a smaller minority. GO back to fixing your fences hamster and leave the real work to the professionals.”
(as in he is a “real” professional and don’t you forget it you whiny little low life trash people)
“Because unlike you who are a parasite at heart who expects to get something for nothing”
(he must have broken away from his “Ayn Rand” worship to post that)
“Luckily, differing opinions from genuine Linux people do exist: Miguel de Izaca”
Sorry “Thorsten”, Miguel de Icaza is NOT a “genuine Linux people”. His affection for Microsoft is well known. He lost the respect of a large number of “genuine Linux people” years ago. His attempt to pollute Linux with .Net/Mono has failed due to lack of interest by the larger community of Linux users and developers. He should just make it official and apply for work in Redmond. No one takes him seriously anymore except for a few like minded M$ft lovers.
Re: experienced administrator of a large enterprise data center, so oldman babysits a bunch of Linux servers?
BTW: DC Admins are passe’ and soon to be replaced: http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/the-rise-of-the-programmable-data-center/
Also, with the http://opencompute.org/ starting up, what Linux did to software will do to hardware.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/07/18/0119230/open-compute-project-driving-open-source-hardware-development
What works for “him” or “you”, does NOT in anyway, correlate to the remaining seven billion people on the planet.
M$ is not the center of the IT universe and has been pointed out countless times, M$ control is diminishing in all markets.
“BTW: DC Admins are passe’ and soon to be replaced: ”
So you can read. I am impressed.
But since I am one of the people who is working on planning and implementing that automation in our environment, I figure that I will be around for a few years yet.
Interestingly enough I was able to use the windows based automation tools to drive the process of spinning up and administer over 100 server instances in less than 3 hours. Each server (there were a mix of windows and linux hosts) had unique FDQN’s IP Addresses and generated root passwords.
When you can demonstrate the same skills across windows and linux Mr. D, then come back and talk.
“What works for “him” or “you”, does NOT in anyway, correlate to the remaining seven billion people on the planet. ”
That is most definitely true. But it is also true that But the tools that I am using also work for enough people that use it. And those people exist in large enough quantities that software built in Microsoft platforms and with microsoft tools are going nowhere soon.
they ewill be around for some time.
oldman I use Linux based tools to manage over 1000+ different servers spread all over the place. Note that is not counting clusters.
That is physical servers and lots of them have virtual instances as well.
oldman you don’t know the libreoffice way of generating the same results because you have never done it. I am sorry to say nyu kind of centralised setup would dead simple to what I am dealing with.
Lots of hardware lots of interlinks lots of servers and massive number of possible failure points. Lots of redundancy in design.
Sorry oldman you are not the professional you think you are. The scale you are working at is nothing.
By the way oldman its not only me who can get buy without MS Office to manage servers and get usage and uptime numbers in xls format or pdf. Its most of the french goverment, cern…. and the list goes on.
Really oldman you are one of those people who are the Minority who reach for MS Office if it required or not resulting in more people having to use MS Office to get their job done.
Sorry “Thorsten”, Miguel de Icaza is NOT a “genuine Linux people”. His affection for Microsoft is well known. He lost the respect of a large number of “genuine Linux people” years ago. His attempt to pollute Linux with .Net/Mono has failed due to lack of interest by the larger community of Linux users and developers. He should just make it official and apply for work in Redmond. No one takes him seriously anymore except for a few like minded M$ft lovers.
By that you mean that you don’t take him seriously because he has dared to criticize Linux. Yeah, that’s a real problem with you types, that you can’t take criticism.
LOL, it had nothing to do with criticism. My lovely troll, stop trying to deflect the issue.
M$ uses Mono to infilitrate GNU/Linux and interfere with the competition that it is constantly attacking with patents and other means. This is nauseating, but for those who followed Miguel de Icaza in recent years this oughn’t be shocking.
“The patent danger to Mono comes from patents we know M$ has, on libraries which are outside the C# spec and thus not covered by any promise not to sue. In effect, M$ has designed in boobytraps for us.
“Indeed, every large program implements lots of ideas that are patented. Indeed, there’s no way to avoid this danger. But that’s no reason to put our head inside M$’s jaws.”
“I saw that internally inside M$ many times when I was told to stay away from supporting Mono in public. They reserve the right to sue”
“By the way oldman its not only me who can get buy without MS Office to manage servers and get usage and uptime numbers in xls format or pdf. ”
This is another instance of you simply not knowing what the hell you’re talking about.
Where did he mention Office? You think people administer and automate datacentres with Microsoft Word?
How about Windows-based tools such as System Center, with Virtual Machine Manager and Configuration Manager? Protecting data with Data Protection Manager? Deploying images with Windows Deployment Services? Managing updates with Windows Server Update Services? And these are just Microsoft’s tools. There are plenty of others that are Windows based, I won’t even hazard a guess at what Oldman uses.
You think it’s just generating usage and uptime figures with an office app? Here’s a hint – your monitoring application would automatically generate the report for you. The tools like Nagios, Splunk, MRTG, PRTG, and all the software tools from the likes of ipSwitch, ManageEngine and SolarWinds.
Lots of psychological damage here. There are really people who believe that Microsoft is trying to “infiltrate” Linux by means of Mono!? Are you people already attending Dr. Roy Schestowitz’s self-help group? You should really learn to deal with your issues before someone gets hurt. I’m sure some of you have guns.
“There are really people who believe that Microsoft is trying to “infiltrate” Linux by means of Mono!?”
Broken audio
Broken wireless
Updates that regularly break things
Dodgy video/multi-monitor support
Backwards compatibility non-existent
Holy wars over *text editors*
More thought put into code names than actually designing the product (I’m looking at you, Canonical)
An audience with entitlement issues, who expect everything for free.
Hostile attitude towards commercial software.
An unwillingness to take criticism, and a willingness to viciously attack those that criticise.
Over-zealous advocates, who will defame, smear, caharacter assassinate, and even threaten the livelihoods and very *lives* of people who dare disagree with them.
If Mono is some kind of master plan to destroy Linux, it can just get in line.
Of course M$ is trying to ‘infiltrate’ Linux, they would be an idiot in not doing so. M$ have much to lose with Linux and it’s continual popularity with the masses. M$ is just delaying the inevitable and positioning themselves appropriately in the market.
Look what happened with Novell, Nokia and a host of other companies. Perhaps you should pickup a copy of Sun-Tzu or Book of Five Rings, ““If you do not control the enemy, the enemy will control you”
“We spend a lot of money – the rest of the commercial industry spends a lot of money – on R&D. We spend a lot of money also licenses patents, when people come and say ‘Hey this commercial piece of software violates our patent, our intellectual property,’ we’ll either get a court judgment or pay a big check. I think it is important that the open source products also have an obligation to participate in the same way.”
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/
“Patents: If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today’s ideas were invented, and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today.”
So, true..
Ted spread FUD, “Broken audio
Broken wireless
Updates that regularly break things
Dodgy video/multi-monitor support
Backwards compatibility non-existent
Holy wars over *text editors*”
Ted describes an OS that is unusable yet many millions use GNU/Linux on random hardware with none of those issues. There are far more machines inflicted with malware running that other OS than GNU/Linux with hardware problems. In all the years I was in schools with about a dozen different makes and dozens of models of PC, I never saw a machine that would not run GNU/Linux. I did see one machine that would not boot PXE but that was not an OS issue but the age of the motherboard (pre 1998/9). So, if there are particular hardware problems there is no show-stopper.
Of course M$ is trying to ‘infiltrate’ Linux, they would be an idiot in not doing so.
Ignoring the mixture of singular and plural words here, the claim could be stated with more validity as “It can be expected that Microsoft would avail themselves of any economic opportunity to exploit Linux if it were adequately profitable and allied to their general business lines.”
Their association with Novell grew out of such an opportunity and it can be argued that Mono was a decendant of that association. On the other hand, there doesn’t seem to be much of a value proposition in this issue for Microsoft, since the only practical use of Mono is in conjunction with Linux and thus can only represent a loss of license revenue for Microsoft if and when anyone applies it to a business problem.
As an aside, I have just now discovered that the blue color heading for a post here seems to be the result of declaring a website address in the log-in space. I also suddenly discovered that I may be dyslexic as well as others here since I have been seeing “Dougman” as “Doughman” since he started posting here. As it turns out it should be seen as “Doug (man)” and not as a manifestation of the Pillsbury character.
Ted wrote, “You think people administer and automate datacentres with Microsoft Word?”
oldman does. He uses it to massage data for reporting. That’s perfectly reasonable when trying to provide a summary for the top dogs or to condense thousands of items into a few for human consumption. I have done similar things to automate students’ reports in school.
Thorsten Rahn, bigot, wrote, “Yeah, that’s a real problem with you types, that you can’t take criticism.”
There’s criticism and there’s abuse. No one has to accept abuse.
“Bigot – 2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.”
What is it about Thorsten Rahn that has to criticize the nature of people who disagree with his beliefs? Miguel de Icaza clearly operates behind the lines in GNU/Linux. His behaviour is classical “technological evangelism” of M$, promoting .NET. It’s embrace, extend, extinguish. He did that even when M$ was pronouncing GNU/Linux a cancer and threatening patent-suits.
Miguel de Icaza clearly operates behind the lines in GNU/Linux.
Awesome, Rob! Conspiracy theories are a favorite pastime at the Dr. Roy Schestowitz self-help group meetings. You will feel right at home.
What is it about Thorsten Rahn that has to criticize the nature of people who disagree with his beliefs?
Oh, you mean like your blind belief that Linux is best for everything? I’ve come to conclude from the posts I sampled on your little blog here that you like to extrapolate from your own needs — which may be met by Linux — to the needs of pretty much all people. If Linux is good enough for you — so be it. But that doesn’t exactly deter you from claiming that it’s good enough for everyone else, too. And this is a baseless claim.
You don’t even know if your wife would not like Mac OS X or Windows better, because she doesn’t know anything else than the Linux you give to her.
Thorsten Rahn wrote, of pogson, “you mean like your blind belief that Linux is best for everything?”
My belief is not blind. The code is open. The licence allows me to try whatever I want and it has always worked for me and mine. Even on price/performance, GNU/Linux wins. $0 beats whatever M$ charges. Even if M$ gave away its software for $0 it would be too high a price to pay as there would be hooks and malware and re-re-reboots to account. I have worked in schools where M$ donated licences. That did not make the software better than GNU/Linux which ran for months with no problems while that other OS was a magnet for malware and needed constant re-re-rebooting and phoning home.
An OS should be a manager of resources. M$’s OS is designed to enslave the world and should be ignored.
Thorsten Rahn wrote, “that doesn’t exactly deter you from claiming that it’s good enough for everyone else, too. And this is a baseless claim.”
Hmmm… GNU/Linux is good enough for Google (Goobuntu), Ernie Ball Guitar Strings, Peugeot, City of Munich, City of Largo, many school divisions, IBM, me, thousands of people I have met, …
So, where’s the baselessness? There are 100 million people using GNU/Linux. They are a diverse group representing every career, industry, and lifestyle. That’s a pretty solid base for my beliefs. That some people believe they cannot live without M$ is sick. It negates all of human history, that people can take care of themselves. GNU/Linux is a cooperative software project of the world and does meet the world’s real needs for software. If there were something lacking, someone would add it to the stack. Look in Debian’s repository. Is there anything most people lack in that awesome stack? They have 50 categories of software. What more could anyone want? In my whole life, doing all kinds of things with IT from scientific number-crunching and data-collection, welding, shooting, to teaching, I have not found anything IT could do for me that wasn’t in there. Rarely, I take an application like Google Chrome browser or the latest version of some application from upstream or write my own, but I still haven’t used 10% of what’s in Debian’s repository. Others do. GNU/Linux works for me and them.
Thorsten Rahn wrote, “You don’t even know if your wife would not like Mac OS X or Windows better, because she doesn’t know anything else than the Linux you give to her.”
The little woman used that other OS from 1985 to 2010. She knows it slows down, refuses to boot, has to be fixed frequently and often makes simple things difficult. She is quite happy with the huge resources she has now. The performance is great except on one old machine, a notebook that was damaged in a fall, uses wireless and has only 512MB and a weak battery and a slow hard drive but those are issues of hardware (too many counts against it but it refuses to die…). GNU/Linux works for her. She has it on five machines in her home and uses them all. We may wire her connection on the old notebook and extend its useful life a bit more…
We have relatives who use MacOSX. It’s an OS and it works. My wife is not a lover of operating systems. She loves what works. She has come a long way in her use of IT over the years from designing our first home on DOS 2 to needing written recipes for trivial operations to syncing her scanner and smart phone with her PC. She still needs to embrace using a database to manager her rapidly growing collection of images but GNU/Linux has that covered when she gets to that point.
“Ted describes an OS that is unusable”
No. I describe an OS with many major problems and issues that its developers will not fix because they’re hard work instead of fun, and whose cheerleader squad will attack anyone who points out the Emperor has no clothes. Or even just dare to suggest things could be improved.
“oldman does. He uses it to massage data for reporting.”
There’s an ocean of difference between “generate reports” and “administer and automate”.
Thorsten Rahn wrote:
“Awesome, Rob! Conspiracy theories are a favorite pastime at the Dr. Roy Schestowitz self-help group meetings.”
You’ll have to include Miguel de Icaza in that conspiracy. He’s totally up front about being infatuated with everything Microsoft. He loves the company and everything about it.
“If there were something lacking, someone would add it to the stack.”
No. Just no. As has been pointed out to you time and again, there are a lot of apllications available for Windows and Mac OS that don’t have equivalents on Linux. And there’s a reason for that: The lack of “someone” willing and capable to write the missing stuff.
The FLOSS model of SW development is great for some stuff – especially small tools – but unsuited for other areas, like complex desktop applications. That’s why the GIMP, with its 2 1/2 developers, can’t hold a candle even to PS Elements. That’s why OOo/LO was created as a commercial product. Developers who are capable of doing such stuff typically want to be paid, and with FLOSS that’s generally pretty hard, a few exceptions nonewithstanding.
Theoretically, commercial developers could fill those gaps, but Linux is pretty much a hostile territory for them. That’s why Adobe won’t port its CS to Linux.
Miguel de Icaza, one of the founders of the GNOME project, has said that OSX has ‘killed the Linux desktop’.
He is just mad that M$ never hired him and that no one likes Mono.
I decided to purge mono from a stock Ubuntu install and see what came up, notice the four references to M$.
sudo apt-get purge libmono* libgdiplus cli-common libglitz-glx1 libglitz1
Reading package lists… Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information… Done
Note, selecting libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-i18n-west1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-getoptions2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-firebirdsql1.7-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-messaging1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-posix1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-winforms1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-microsoft7.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-security1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmon-perl for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-npgsql1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-data-tds2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-i18n2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmoneta-ruby1.8 for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cscompmgd8.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono0 for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-data2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-uia3.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-ldap2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-bytefx0.7.6.1-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sharpzip0.84-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sqlite1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-rabbitmq2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-web1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-addins-gui-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-peapi2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-zeroconf1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil0.4-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-corlib1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-simd2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-windowsbase3.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-uia-atkbridge1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-data1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-runtime2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-relaxng2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-ldap1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-uia-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-microsoft-visualbasic8.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-accessibility1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-addins-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-messaging-rabbitmq2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-windowsbase-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cairo2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-fuse-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-zeroconf-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sharpzip2.6-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-bytefx0.7.6.2-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-oracle2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-messaging2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-addins0.2-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-uia-winforms1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-web-mvc1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-messaging2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-posix2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-winforms2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-microsoft8.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sharpzip0.6-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-security2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-microsoft-build2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil0.5-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-npgsql2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-webbrowser0.5-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono0-dbg for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-getoptions1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-data-tds1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sqlite2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-i18n1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cscompmgd7.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-data1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-web2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-ldap1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-db2-1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-corlib2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-private-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-flowanalysis0.1a-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-data2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-nunit2.4-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-ldap2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-peapi1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-accessibility2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-flowanalysis-cil-dev for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-profiler for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmoneta-ruby for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil-flowanalysis0.1-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system-runtime1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-relaxng1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-management2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-c5-1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cecil0.3-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-cairo1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-wcf3.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-system2.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
Note, selecting libmono-oracle1.0-cil for regex ‘libmono*’
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
libsqlite0 python-mmkeys python-mutagen python-cddb
Use ‘apt-get autoremove’ to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
cli-common* giver* gnome-rdp* libart2.0-cil* libavahi1.0-cil* libdbus-glib1.0-cil* libdbus1.0-cil* libgconf2.0-cil* libgdiplus* libglade2.0-cil* libglib2.0-cil* libglib2.0-cil-dev* libglitz-glx1*
libglitz1* libgmime2.4-cil* libgnome-keyring1.0-cil* libgnome-vfs2.0-cil* libgnome2.24-cil* libgnomepanel2.24-cil* libgtk2.0-cil* liblaunchpad-integration1.0-cil* libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil*
libmono-addins0.2-cil* libmono-cairo2.0-cil* libmono-corlib2.0-cil* libmono-data-tds2.0-cil* libmono-i18n-west2.0-cil* libmono-posix2.0-cil* libmono-security2.0-cil* libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil*
libmono-sqlite2.0-cil* libmono-system-data2.0-cil* libmono-system2.0-cil* libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil* libndesk-dbus1.0-cil* libnotify0.4-cil* libvte0.16-cil* mono-2.0-gac* mono-gac* mono-gmcs*
mono-runtime* tomboy*
dougman wrote, “sudo apt-get purge libmono* libgdiplus cli-common libglitz-glx1 libglitz1″
Great comment, thanks.
On my system:
“pogson@beast:~/Downloads$ dpkg –get-selections|grep mono
nothing”
One point MdI makes is that .NET is a sweet development platform because it helps programmers be more productive but that’s just a euphemism for digging Wintel dependence faster. Oh, the bloat!
What equivalent so-called missing programs?
Which complex desktop applications?
That’s why the GIMP, with its 2 1/2 developers, can’t hold a candle even to PS Elements.
2.5 developers? Opening GIMP and clicking on the About tab, one will find the following names:
Spencer Kimball
Peter Mattis
Nicola Archibald
Luis Barrancos
Hans Breuer
Simon Budig
João S. O. Bueno
Lars-Peter Clausen
Kevin Cozens
Michael Deal
Alexia Death
Daniel Eddeland
Ulf-D. Ehlert
David Gowers
Marcus Heese
Daniel Hornung
Barak Itkin
Róman Joost
Geert Jordaens
Aurimas Juška
Øyvind Kolås
Tom Lechner
Tor Lillqvist
Luidnel Maignan
John Marshall
Michael Natterer
Sven Neumann
Martin Nordholts
Ville Pätsi
Raphaël Quinet
Dennis Ranke
Michael Schumacher
Peter Sikking
Jernej Simončič
Manish Singh
William Skaggs
Jakub Steiner
That’s why OOo/LO was created as a commercial product.
Eh? It’s is interesting that Novell, a company taken over by M$, is actively attempting to sell something that’s free, with some sort of subscription license. The highlights mentioned are spot on, whereas people that show up on this blog, attempt to say otherwise.
http://www.novell.com/products/libreoffice/
- 1 Year Basic Maintenance – Subscription – $50.00
- 1 Year Standard Support – Subscription – $120.00
http://www.libreoffice.org/
Developers who are capable of doing such stuff typically want to be paid, and with FLOSS that’s generally pretty hard, a few exceptions none withstanding.
Using FLOSS one can still get paid, I use it 24/7 and get paid, as do millions of others on the planet.
Theoretically, commercial developers could fill those gaps, but Linux is pretty much a hostile territory for them.
Linux is hostile? I have read more griping coming from Apple and M$ developers in the past two years, then I care to admit. The beauty of Android and Linux is I can take a stock distribution and do whatever I want with it, try that with the others.
That’s why Adobe won’t port its CS to Linux.
Then, Adobe is really missing out on some revenue, I know of a few graphic designers and marketing types that would certainly pay the money for Creative Suite, if Adobe released a Linux version.
https://getsatisfaction.com/adobe/topics/produce_creative_suite_for_linux
In reality, I think it would sour the relationship between Adobe and M$ if that were to happen, besides I would rather pay money to purchase Linux software rather then paying tax to Microsoft.
“What equivalent so-called missing programs?
Which complex desktop applications?”
OK, so you’re playing dumb. Yes, I’m referring to
- Adobe Photoshop
- Adobe Illustrator
- Adobe InDesign
- MS Visio
- MS Project
- Steinberg Cubase
and so on, and so on.
“2.5 developers?”
That’s what they said not so long ago (last year, IIRC): After one of them had left, they were down to 2.5 main developers. Their website lists two maintainers:
http://www.gimp.org/team.html
and a lot of others who are “Contributing patches, fixes, plugins, extensions, scripts and other improvements to the code for GIMP 2.6.” – in other words, everybody who contributed a single line or so. What they don’t have is a single Windows-based developer:
http://www.gimp.org/
(second entry currently)
“Novell, a company taken over by M$”
Sigh. Can’t you get anything right? They were taken over by Attachmate, not MS.
“Using FLOSS one can still get paid”
For developing desktop applications? Rarely. The few existing exceptions just prove the rule.
“I use it 24/7 and get paid”
FYI: using != developing
“Linux is hostile?”
Towards commercial, CS applications: Yes. It’s easy to write CS applications for Windows, and MS will help you where possible (e.g. with decades of backwards compatibility). Apple is a bit shorter on backwards compatibility, but otherwise ist’s easy, too. Just maintaining Flash Player across various distros, with stuff breaking in every other version, was too costly for Adobe.
“I know of a few graphic designers and marketing types that would certainly pay the money for Creative Suite, if Adobe released a Linux version.”
Someone willing to actually pay for CS is typically professional enough to run it on Windows or Mac OS and be done with it. Linux – thanks to missing standardisation, further fractioning it’s minuskule market share – is too expensive to develop CS for.
https://getsatisfaction.com/adobe/topics/produce_creative_suite_for_linux
Yes, Adobe considered that – and decided against it, for some reasons. (My favorite was the one guy who actually wrote a comment on Adobe’s site that ammounted to: “My current PC is too slow to run my [pirated] copy of PS with Wine, but if you released a Linux version I would like totally buy it!”)
“In reality, I think it would sour the relationship between Adobe and M$ if that were to happen”
Yeah, sure, and MS is totally punishing Adobe because they release stuff for Mac OS, too.
ch
- Adobe Photoshop
- Adobe Illustrator
- Adobe InDesign
- MS Visio
- MS Project
- Steinberg Cubase
You need to do that list list.
MS Visio opens in Libreoffice by the way this is a recent addition so letting its conversion. There are a lot of options to replace Visio if you not needing to access Visio file format.
MS Project is replaced by ganttproject both use the same file format in fact just one is cross platform one is not. ganttproject is quite a long maintained open source program. Again there is a lot of things that can be used to replace MS Project as well if you don’t need MS Project compatibility
For example
http://www.sugarcrm.com/feature/project-and-activity-management
Advantage this one can be costing the project and billing the cost to end user as you go.
Lot of general admin staff all the software they need Linux has.
So ch you need to delete MS Visio and MS Project from the list of complex application Linux does not have. Linux has replacements to both in spades and some end up suiting the business way better like sugercrm that can join up costing and project management fully.
The list of application Linux does not have is getting shorter ch.
–My current PC is too slow to run my [pirated] copy of PS with Wine, but if you released a Linux version I would like totally buy it!–
Bad quote and I will tell you why. Legal copy of Photoshop will not run in Wine. You have to break the copy protection in latter versions.
So a lot on Linux user would buy Photoshop is Adobe fixed their activation so it worked in wine.
Ch I don’t know where Adobe is going with flash. I would be suspect that time is number for Flash on Windows with IE or Firefox as well.
“There are a lot of options to replace Visio”
Please name one with the same functionality as a halfways-current version of Visio. Hint: Don’t suggest Dia or OOo/LO Draw. Really don’t suggest Kivio. And if you mention yed, I’ll crawl through the cable to your place and throttle you, swear I will!
“MS Project is replaced by ganttproject”
Just because software XYZ can read and write the file format of software ABC doesn’t mean XYZ is a replacement for ABC.
BTW:
http://ganttproject.blogspot.de/search/label/faq#!/2012/07/ganttproject-brno-first-beta.html
They are already adding zero-duration milestones in version 2.6 ?! Amateur stuff.