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	<title>Comments on: The Stark Unreality of Retail GNU/Linux in USA</title>
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	<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/</link>
	<description>One man. Closing, all the windows.</description>
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		<title>By: kozmcrae</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94390</link>
		<dc:creator>kozmcrae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It sure is for Linux.&quot;

Chris Weig is not known for his creativity.  Try thinking for yourself for a change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It sure is for Linux.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chris Weig is not known for his creativity.  Try thinking for yourself for a change.</p>
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		<title>By: oiaohm</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94383</link>
		<dc:creator>oiaohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ch I would say Laughing stages is over.  MS offers license discounts to prevent Linux Migrations by Governments.  Laughing stage that is not required.

I have really did map out how Microsoft got dominate.  You try to doing business when you cannot do your tax without Microsoft because government requires it.  Yes I get to write a copy of windows off on my tax return.

Brillo third stage is always slow.  Where the quote of time line comes from Gandhi look how long he had to be in third stage to make progress. 

The big thing all three of your are missing ch, Brillo and Clarence moon.

De-facto standards are not cutting it any more.  MS has been forced to make 2012-2013 office suite fully to OOXML spec and support ODF 1.2 and support PDF.

Remember XPS MS competitor to PDF and all the other de-facto standards MS has put in the way to having competition.

The road blocks to FOSS products competing are reducing.

Brillo the 5 years is how most people compare things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ch I would say Laughing stages is over.  MS offers license discounts to prevent Linux Migrations by Governments.  Laughing stage that is not required.</p>
<p>I have really did map out how Microsoft got dominate.  You try to doing business when you cannot do your tax without Microsoft because government requires it.  Yes I get to write a copy of windows off on my tax return.</p>
<p>Brillo third stage is always slow.  Where the quote of time line comes from Gandhi look how long he had to be in third stage to make progress. </p>
<p>The big thing all three of your are missing ch, Brillo and Clarence moon.</p>
<p>De-facto standards are not cutting it any more.  MS has been forced to make 2012-2013 office suite fully to OOXML spec and support ODF 1.2 and support PDF.</p>
<p>Remember XPS MS competitor to PDF and all the other de-facto standards MS has put in the way to having competition.</p>
<p>The road blocks to FOSS products competing are reducing.</p>
<p>Brillo the 5 years is how most people compare things.</p>
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		<title>By: ch</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94355</link>
		<dc:creator>ch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“First they ignore you. They they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win”

In the 80ies, the proprietary Unix guys ignored those &quot;toy&quot; MS-DOS PCs. In the 90ies, they first laughed at Windows - and then tried to fight NT (Unix95). Today, the proprietary Unixes are mostly confined to the high-end server market. Guess who&#039;s laughing now? On the server: MS and Linux. On the client: MS. (And Apple hiding a smirk.)

And Linux on the desktop? The fanboys are still in the &quot;laughing&quot; phase, no serious &quot;fighting&quot; in evidence. Instead:
http://piestar.net/2009/08/18/know-your-enemy/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“First they ignore you. They they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win”</p>
<p>In the 80ies, the proprietary Unix guys ignored those &#8220;toy&#8221; MS-DOS PCs. In the 90ies, they first laughed at Windows &#8211; and then tried to fight NT (Unix95). Today, the proprietary Unixes are mostly confined to the high-end server market. Guess who&#8217;s laughing now? On the server: MS and Linux. On the client: MS. (And Apple hiding a smirk.)</p>
<p>And Linux on the desktop? The fanboys are still in the &#8220;laughing&#8221; phase, no serious &#8220;fighting&#8221; in evidence. Instead:<br />
<a href="http://piestar.net/2009/08/18/know-your-enemy/" rel="nofollow">http://piestar.net/2009/08/18/know-your-enemy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Weig</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94321</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Weig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;They still think it’s 1995.&lt;/cite&gt;

It sure is for Linux.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>They still think it’s 1995.</cite></p>
<p>It sure is for Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: Brillo</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94319</link>
		<dc:creator>Brillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Wise words, relevant to Linux: “First they ignore you. They they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win”
 
We are at the third stage&lt;/b&gt;

You mean a third stage that spans over &lt;strike&gt;two decades&lt;/strike&gt; five years and essentially involves Linux zealots repeating the same prediction &lt;a href=&quot;http://penguinday.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/the-eternal-five-years/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;over and over&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;b&gt;At least M$ pulled their head out of the sand and lowered pricing for Windows 8 Pro for $40&lt;/b&gt;

You mean like what they did with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/06/25/microsoft-annouces-windows-7-pricing-special-preorder-price&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Windows 7&lt;/a&gt;? You are one man full of experience indeed!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Wise words, relevant to Linux: “First they ignore you. They they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win”</p>
<p>We are at the third stage</b></p>
<p>You mean a third stage that spans over <strike>two decades</strike> five years and essentially involves Linux zealots repeating the same prediction <a href="http://penguinday.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/the-eternal-five-years/" rel="nofollow">over and over</a>?</p>
<p><b>At least M$ pulled their head out of the sand and lowered pricing for Windows 8 Pro for $40</b></p>
<p>You mean like what they did with <a href="http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/06/25/microsoft-annouces-windows-7-pricing-special-preorder-price" rel="nofollow">Windows 7</a>? You are one man full of experience indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: kozmcrae</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94315</link>
		<dc:creator>kozmcrae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 20:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They still think it&#039;s 1995.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They still think it&#8217;s 1995.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence Moon</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94295</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Still a majority, perhaps, but not nearly so vast&lt;/b&gt;

Name another market where 95% is not &quot;vast majority&quot;, Mr. Pogson.  Marketing-wise, the &quot;market leader&quot; is simply bigger than their largest competitor.  A two to one ration is considered enormous and 19 to 1 is unheard of.  

Your concept of &quot;market&quot; is poorly formed by itself, so it is somewhat pointless to go on about what share means in terms of strategy or predict some sort of outcome based on changes in statistics.

I personally think that Wintel, Apple, and the very few Lintel machines, which are the totality of what can be thought of as &quot;PC&quot; actually form independent product markets and each product supplier has a 100% share of their respective markets.  People do not set out to comparison shop between a Macintosh and a Windows computer.  They are pre-decided on one or the other based on oodles of non-technical factors.  

Once they decide on which they want, there are many sources for Wintel and only one for Macintosh.  I guess anyone deciding to obtain a Linux machine at any cost also have some choice in the matter, but I agree with whoever said elsewhere that most Linux fans buy a Wintel and, as you put it, &quot;pave it over&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Still a majority, perhaps, but not nearly so vast</b></p>
<p>Name another market where 95% is not &#8220;vast majority&#8221;, Mr. Pogson.  Marketing-wise, the &#8220;market leader&#8221; is simply bigger than their largest competitor.  A two to one ration is considered enormous and 19 to 1 is unheard of.  </p>
<p>Your concept of &#8220;market&#8221; is poorly formed by itself, so it is somewhat pointless to go on about what share means in terms of strategy or predict some sort of outcome based on changes in statistics.</p>
<p>I personally think that Wintel, Apple, and the very few Lintel machines, which are the totality of what can be thought of as &#8220;PC&#8221; actually form independent product markets and each product supplier has a 100% share of their respective markets.  People do not set out to comparison shop between a Macintosh and a Windows computer.  They are pre-decided on one or the other based on oodles of non-technical factors.  </p>
<p>Once they decide on which they want, there are many sources for Wintel and only one for Macintosh.  I guess anyone deciding to obtain a Linux machine at any cost also have some choice in the matter, but I agree with whoever said elsewhere that most Linux fans buy a Wintel and, as you put it, &#8220;pave it over&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: oldman</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94294</link>
		<dc:creator>oldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 17:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;*/Linux are like rockets at the moment&quot;

Nope Cell phones running the commercial OS named Android are selling will. The Linux desktop is not.

Stop lying!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;*/Linux are like rockets at the moment&#8221;</p>
<p>Nope Cell phones running the commercial OS named Android are selling will. The Linux desktop is not.</p>
<p>Stop lying!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Pogson</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94283</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Pogson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:09:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Conzo wrote, rather rudely, &lt;em&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;green&quot;&gt;
&quot;1. The vast majority of Linux users downloads his/her distro-du-jour, and hence doesn’t buy preloaded devices.

2. The vast majority of people who buy a PC either don’t know/care what’s on it, or they want Windows.&quot;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

1 may have been true a few years ago but you forget that large organizations have rolled out millions of seats of GNU/Linux for employees, members, students, etc. and some of those have been preloaded because OEMs don&#039;t hesitate to ship GNU/Linux these days. Look at India, which is getting an order for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.muktware.com/news/3203/chinese-lenovo-secures-biggest-deal-india&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;300K GNU/Linux PCs&lt;/a&gt;. So, one roll-out trumps a lot of individuals doing downloads. A lot of individuals use GNU/Linux at work. Outfits like IBM, Novell, RedHat, and Ubuntu have been working to put out a lot of GNU/Linux seats.

2 You cannot have it both ways, not caring about OS excludes caring about that other OS. I know a lot of people who don&#039;t care about the OS yet they think their PCs are slow, are slowing down and pick up malware like magnets. They actually do care but don&#039;t realize there is a choice. When shown the choice side by side, they often choose GNU/Linux because it costs less, is faster and doesn&#039;t pick up malware. I have seen people reluctant to change but they are also reluctant to change from XP to &quot;7&quot; and &quot;8&quot; will really startle them. GNU/Linux looks a lot more familiar to users of XP.

Ubuntu GNU/Linux is supposedly the top distro in popularity and Canonical predicts they will have 5% of shipments next year, so even if 1 and 2 are true today, &quot;vast majority&quot; may no longer be operational. Still a majority, perhaps, but not nearly so vast and that change is happening rapidly and with acceleration. The thing is, what is the rate of change of popularity of the OS these days? */Linux are like rockets at the moment and that other OS is in a holding operation with breaches in the perimeter. Wintel is not sustainable barring a sudden surge in caring about OS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conzo wrote, rather rudely, <em><font color="green"><br />
&#8220;1. The vast majority of Linux users downloads his/her distro-du-jour, and hence doesn’t buy preloaded devices.</p>
<p>2. The vast majority of people who buy a PC either don’t know/care what’s on it, or they want Windows.&#8221;</font></em></p>
<p>1 may have been true a few years ago but you forget that large organizations have rolled out millions of seats of GNU/Linux for employees, members, students, etc. and some of those have been preloaded because OEMs don&#8217;t hesitate to ship GNU/Linux these days. Look at India, which is getting an order for <a href="http://www.muktware.com/news/3203/chinese-lenovo-secures-biggest-deal-india" rel="nofollow">300K GNU/Linux PCs</a>. So, one roll-out trumps a lot of individuals doing downloads. A lot of individuals use GNU/Linux at work. Outfits like IBM, Novell, RedHat, and Ubuntu have been working to put out a lot of GNU/Linux seats.</p>
<p>2 You cannot have it both ways, not caring about OS excludes caring about that other OS. I know a lot of people who don&#8217;t care about the OS yet they think their PCs are slow, are slowing down and pick up malware like magnets. They actually do care but don&#8217;t realize there is a choice. When shown the choice side by side, they often choose GNU/Linux because it costs less, is faster and doesn&#8217;t pick up malware. I have seen people reluctant to change but they are also reluctant to change from XP to &#8220;7&#8243; and &#8220;8&#8243; will really startle them. GNU/Linux looks a lot more familiar to users of XP.</p>
<p>Ubuntu GNU/Linux is supposedly the top distro in popularity and Canonical predicts they will have 5% of shipments next year, so even if 1 and 2 are true today, &#8220;vast majority&#8221; may no longer be operational. Still a majority, perhaps, but not nearly so vast and that change is happening rapidly and with acceleration. The thing is, what is the rate of change of popularity of the OS these days? */Linux are like rockets at the moment and that other OS is in a holding operation with breaches in the perimeter. Wintel is not sustainable barring a sudden surge in caring about OS.</p>
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		<title>By: Conzo</title>
		<link>http://mrpogson.com/2012/08/22/the-stark-unreality-of-retail-gnulinux-in-usa/#comment-94280</link>
		<dc:creator>Conzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 15:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mrpogson.com/?p=13826#comment-94280</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll explain it to you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y:

1. The vast majority of Linux users downloads his/her distro-du-jour, and hence doesn&#039;t buy preloaded devices.
2. The vast majority of people who buy a PC either don&#039;t know/care what&#039;s on it, or they want Windows.

iConjecture that there is no commercial justification for offering Linux-preloaded computers.

How convenient that Linux&amp;friends are gratis, so that the ridiculous attempts to force it down peoples&#039; throats, and the pipe dreams of having one world united under Linux cannot technically be called &#039;trying to cheat fair competition by shilling&#039;. Imagine having the hypocrisy of it all stand out in broad daylight, rather than hiding it under a gravy layer of politico-BS.

In fact, dear Mr. Pogson, there are so many ways you are no different from the worst of MS or Apple shills, with the exception that they are at least clever enough to get paid for it.

But it&#039;s all in good spirit, so what do you say about a free beer (not free as in free software, owing to the fact that the recipe is closed source *sob*)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll explain it to you v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y:</p>
<p>1. The vast majority of Linux users downloads his/her distro-du-jour, and hence doesn&#8217;t buy preloaded devices.<br />
2. The vast majority of people who buy a PC either don&#8217;t know/care what&#8217;s on it, or they want Windows.</p>
<p>iConjecture that there is no commercial justification for offering Linux-preloaded computers.</p>
<p>How convenient that Linux&amp;friends are gratis, so that the ridiculous attempts to force it down peoples&#8217; throats, and the pipe dreams of having one world united under Linux cannot technically be called &#8216;trying to cheat fair competition by shilling&#8217;. Imagine having the hypocrisy of it all stand out in broad daylight, rather than hiding it under a gravy layer of politico-BS.</p>
<p>In fact, dear Mr. Pogson, there are so many ways you are no different from the worst of MS or Apple shills, with the exception that they are at least clever enough to get paid for it.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s all in good spirit, so what do you say about a free beer (not free as in free software, owing to the fact that the recipe is closed source *sob*)</p>
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